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View Full Version : What Does everyone think of Jrue Holiday Defensively



Alayla
12-30-2012, 11:34 PM
Okay so i was having an argument with bagwell (no surprise)
And he said that Jrue Holiday is Below Average defensively
This outright floored me because Jrue Holiday is one of the better Defensive PGs in the NBA today imo.

bagwell368
12-30-2012, 11:44 PM
Okay so i was having an argument with bagwell (no surprise)
And he said that Jrue Holiday is Below Average defensively
This outright floored me because Jrue Holiday is one of the better Defensive PGs in the NBA today imo.

It's not an argument, I'm giving facts and observations, and you can't handle a 76'er being criticized so you've gone to insults and emotionalism.

I said he was excellent on the D vs the Celts in the playoffs last year, but in the 3 full games and 2 partial games I've seen this year, he has not been impressive, in fact he's been below average. The DRtg stat backs me up on last years playoffs and this year's regular season thus far. I guess the truth isn't enough for a zealot.

Alayla
12-30-2012, 11:56 PM
It's not an argument, I'm giving facts and observations, and you can't handle a 76'er being criticized so you've gone to insults and emotionalism.

I said he was excellent on the D vs the Celts in the playoffs last year, but in the 3 full games and 2 partial games I've seen this year, he has not been impressive, in fact he's been below average. The DRtg stat backs me up on last years playoffs and this year's regular season thus far. I guess the truth isn't enough for a zealot.

Lol.. this guy.. you went right to this thread right away and also i noticed you didn't reply to swash cuff when he said the same thing i said (swashcuff being way more basketball knowledgeable than i am btw but you had an issue with me saying it. in fact you have an issue with everything i say its like you pick out my comments and attack me and its getting old the purpose of this thread was not to insult you it was to get a general unbiased opinion from the majority of NBA fans.
As for the Bolded you sound utterly insane.
I attack the sixers fanbase for overrating players on a regular basis Turner being the most common people make him sound like a future allstar when at best he has been an Average starter this season and at wrost has looked cringe worthy depending on the night

I consistently Booed lou willams and wanted him out of town he has to be the most Overrated guard in the nba right now and shot us out of countless games
And nick young is no better dorell wright has been a disappointment and so has J rich dont act as if im some blind fan with no grasp on where players on my team rank

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 12:14 AM
I haven't seen him all season but he's #44 in defensive rankings in the NBA guards. Not exactly a good thing.

I do see he is #21 in stls and 27 in blks, and that's where you could get defense mixed up. B/c that's prbly help D he provides or doubles that turn into steals.

Alayla
12-31-2012, 12:33 AM
I haven't seen him all season but he's #44 in defensive rankings in the NBA guards. Not exactly a good thing.

I do see he is #21 in stls and 27 in blks, and that's where you could get defense mixed up. B/c that's prbly help D he provides or doubles that turn into steals.

Acutally thats kind of the reason we are having this argument I dont believe the stats tell the whole story watching the games i feel that hes much better on that end that stats tend to say but thanks for the honesty

The thing is the sixers as a team are poor on D this year and he is our best player on that end by a considerable margin last year the stats said he was a better player on D than this year and it seems like no coincede that the team was much better on that end as well
what im trying to say is i think defensive stats are too easily scewed by the team around the player

Tony_Starks
12-31-2012, 12:36 AM
He's about average. Below average is a bit of a stretch, even though he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes defensively. He's not horrible though.

But he has all around game. Give me a pg that's putting up his numbers across the board and I can live with average defense....

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 12:44 AM
Elite at the PG position in today's NBA sounds about right. Its no surprise that Bagwell will say those things about Jrue though.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 12:51 AM
It's not an argument, I'm giving facts and observations, and you can't handle a 76'er being criticized so you've gone to insults and emotionalism.

I said he was excellent on the D vs the Celts in the playoffs last year, but in the 3 full games and 2 partial games I've seen this year, he has not been impressive, in fact he's been below average. The DRtg stat backs me up on last years playoffs and this year's regular season thus far. I guess the truth isn't enough for a zealot.

What do you think of Carlos Boozer's defense this year and last post season? Better yet Kyle Lowry's in his Houston days?

You do realize that Jrue played with arguably the best perimeter defender in the NBA last season right? I don't need to tell you that that player will directly affect Jrue's DRtg especially given the fact that those players logged the most minutes on the floor and spent more minutes playing together than any other two Philadelphia teammates. You do realize that we almost amnestied our best interior defender who also had a big impact on that DRtg AND logged a large amount of minutes alongside Jrue you DO realize this right?

Using DRtg as your argument as to why Jrue isn't a good defender is about as poor as it gets dude especially for someone who claims to have a profound understanding of advanced metrics. Try again.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 12:52 AM
Lol.. this guy.. you went right to this thread right away and also i noticed you didn't reply to swash cuff when he said the same thing i said (swashcuff being way more basketball knowledgeable than i am btw but you had an issue with me saying it. in fact you have an issue with everything i say its like you pick out my comments and attack me and its getting old the purpose of this thread was not to insult you it was to get a general unbiased opinion from the majority of NBA fans.
As for the Bolded you sound utterly insane.
I attack the sixers fanbase for overrating players on a regular basis Turner being the most common people make him sound like a future allstar when at best he has been an Average starter this season and at wrost has looked cringe worthy depending on the night

I consistently Booed lou willams and wanted him out of town he has to be the most Overrated guard in the nba right now and shot us out of countless games
And nick young is no better dorell wright has been a disappointment and so has J rich dont act as if im some blind fan with no grasp on where players on my team rank

I didn't even read this before I posted in this thread or replied to Bagwell :laugh2:

Where did this stem from?

douglas
12-31-2012, 12:53 AM
Jrue Holiday is a good defender and an even better person.

sixer04fan
12-31-2012, 01:02 AM
Average to me. Better than the stats indicate, but he's inconsistent and very average more often than not. He has the ability to be an elite defensive PG, he shows it sometimes, but he's only average for now. He really needs to become more assertive and aggressive on defense like he has on offense in order to become a great defender.

He doesn't get any help either though. Usually it takes great team defense and a full team game plan to shut down the great PGs of the league. Jrue is consistently given the task of having to stick the opposing PG with very little team defense help. That's why you see opposing PGs put up big numbers against him, even when it feels like he's playing pretty good defense when your watching the game. That's also why the stats don't favor him.

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:03 AM
He's about average. Below average is a bit of a stretch, even though he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes defensively. He's not horrible though.

But he has all around game. Give me a pg that's putting up his numbers across the board and I can live with average defense....

There are 30 teams in the NBA, he ranks 44 in guards. That's not below average? He's #21 and #27 in total blks and stls, really homie?:eyebrow:

SeoulBeatz
12-31-2012, 01:06 AM
Average to me. Better than the stats indicate, but he's inconsistent and very average more often than not. He has the ability to be an elite defensive PG, he shows it sometimes, but he's only average for now. He really needs to become more assertive and aggressive on defense like he has on offense in order to become a great defender.

He doesn't get any help either though. Usually it takes great team defense and a full team game plan to shut down the great PGs of the league. Jrue is consistently given the task of having to stick the opposing PG with very little team defense help. That's why you see opposing PGs put up big numbers against him, even when it feels like he's playing pretty good defense when your watching the game. That's also why the stats don't favor him.

Spot on post. I also think his vastly increased role offensively has caused him to slack a little on defense. He is a capable defender though.

Alayla
12-31-2012, 01:15 AM
There are 30 teams in the NBA, he ranks 44 in guards. That's not below average? He's #21 and #27 in total blks and stls, really homie?:eyebrow:


Once again though just looking at the stats doesn't really tell you much.
people need to understand that stats and even more so with defensive stats are not suppose to be the end all be all they need context and without context they are merely guidelines. There are things that dont show up on the stat Sheet and this is more so True on D than anything else.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:24 AM
Just to give you guys a quick idea as how valuable Jrue is to our team defensively this season (I'm going to ignore prior years where he's been just stellar (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2233)) I'd just state this. When Jrue comes off the floor we give up 7.0 more points per 100 possessions (http://www.82games.com/1213/12PHI2.HTM#onoff) than we do with him on the floor. That is the 2nd biggest differencial in the entire league among PGs. The biggest differential belongs to Mario Chalmers (7.4).

In terms of DRAPM among starting PGs Jrue ranks 4th among starting PGs.


Eric Bledsoe 1.5
Jason Kidd 1.3
Ricky Rubio 1.1
Stephen Curry 1
Mike Conley 0.9
Jrue Holiday 0.5
Chris Paul 0.4
Tony Parker 0.4
Derek Fisher 0.4
Jameer Nelson 0.2
Mario Chalmers 0.2
Rajon Rondo 0
Kyle Lowry -0.1
George Hill -0.1
Jeremy Lin -0.1
Mickael Pietrus -0.4
Kemba Walker -0.5
Kirk Hinrich -0.5
Jamaal Tinsley -0.6
Jarrett Jack -0.6
Devin Harris -0.8
Jose Barea -0.9
Royal Ivey -0.9
Westbrook -1
Damian Lillard -1
Steve Blake -1.1
Ty Lawson -1.3
Jose Calderon -1.3
Isaiah Thomas -1.3
Quincy Miller -1.3
Luke Ridnour -1.4
Daniel Gibson -1.4
Goran Dragic -1.8
Chris Duhon -1.8
Jennings -1.9
Aaron Brooks -1.9
Andre Miller -2
Jerryd Bayless -2
Will Bynum -2.1
Darius Morris -2.1
Raymond Felton -2.6
Nate Robinson -2.7
Darren Collison -2.7
D.J. Augustin -2.7
Leandro Barbosa -3.1
Mo Williams -3.3
Deron Williams -3.6

I have to admit I don't have Jrue's synergy #s so I won't be able to judge his D along those lines but from my eye test this season (I think I must have seen all but 4 games if I'm not mistaken and two of those games Jrue didn't play) his D has been very good, could have been better but just like on offense he gets a little bit carried away defensively and misses his assignments on occasion but he's still only 22 and its his first year in this role of being his team's #1 defensive perimeter player so he can grow in that regard but he's still solid nonetheless.

IMO this season of all the PGs I've watched play only one has set himself apart from the rest defensively and that's the Bledsoe. He's the cream of the crop right now in my eyes but Jrue is no slouch either.

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:29 AM
Once again though just looking at the stats doesn't really tell you much.
people need to understand that stats and even more so with defensive stats are not suppose to be the end all be all they need context and without context they are merely guidelines. There are things that dont show up on the stat Sheet and this is more so True on D than anything else.


Average to me. Better than the stats indicate, but he's inconsistent and very average more often than not. He has the ability to be an elite defensive PG, he shows it sometimes, but he's only average for now. He really needs to become more assertive and aggressive on defense like he has on offense in order to become a great defender.

He doesn't get any help either though. Usually it takes great team defense and a full team game plan to shut down the great PGs of the league. Jrue is consistently given the task of having to stick the opposing PG with very little team defense help. That's why you see opposing PGs put up big numbers against him, even when it feels like he's playing pretty good defense when your watching the game. That's also why the stats don't favor him.

I'm just going to say. He's not an average defender. And ranking #44 in guards is not helping this debate. DWS he is #44, Dorell Wright and Evan Turner's D is ranked higher on a per 48 mins.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:31 AM
There are 30 teams in the NBA, he ranks 44 in guards. That's not below average? He's #21 and #27 in total blks and stls, really homie?:eyebrow:

1. There are two guard positions in the NBA
2. Could you share where you get these stats please.
3. Monta Ellis and Goran Dragic are both ranked ahead of Jrue in terms of steals are they better defensive players?
4. In 30 games this entire season Chris Paul has blocked 1 shot does that mean Chris Paul is a poor defender and does a terrible job at challenging shots?

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:34 AM
I'm just going to say. He's not an average defender. And ranking #44 in guards is not helping this debate. DWS he is #44, Dorell Wright and Evan Turner's D is ranked higher on a per 48 mins.

I dose of stupid just hit me.

Could you tell how DWS are found, how sensible it would be to compare a player who has missed time to injury to players who haven't and how much a player's teammates impacts his DWS.

According to your argument Carlos Boozer is a top 5 defensive PF. Agreed?

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:36 AM
1. There are two guard positions in the NBA
2. Could you share where you get these stats please.
3. Monta Ellis and Goran Dragic are both ranked ahead of Jrue in terms of steals are they better defensive players?
4. In 30 games this entire season Chris Paul has blocked 1 shot does that mean Chris Paul is a poor defender and does a terrible job at challenging shots?

1. I know
2. basketball reference
3. Monta is, Goran isn't. Jrue is actually better than him
4. CP3 is ranked #1 for a guard in defense, no one in the game better than him

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:37 AM
I'm just going to say. He's not an average defender. And ranking #44 in guards is not helping this debate. DWS he is #44, Dorell Wright and Evan Turner's D is ranked higher on a per 48 mins.

I mean seriously have you read any of the posts I've made in this thread or clicked on any of the links because right now it seems as though you went on BBref saw something with the word "Defense" in it saw that Jrue was ranked 44th (there are roughly 120+ guards in the NBA if a player is ranked 44th he is above average) and thought to yourself if there were 30 teams and you're not in the top 30 then you can't be average and boom you got yourself an argument.

Don't you guys come to these forums to share opinions and learn from others? Well hear what read my posts and learn something before you continue spewing nonesense.

Alayla
12-31-2012, 01:38 AM
I'm just going to say. He's not an average defender. And ranking #44 in guards is not helping this debate. DWS he is #44, Dorell Wright and Evan Turner's D is ranked higher on a per 48 mins.

Evan Turner is a much worse defender if you watch them once again it shows a flaw in stats.

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:39 AM
I mean seriously have you read any of the posts I've made in this thread or clicked on any of the links because right now it seems as though you went on BBref saw something with the word "Defense" in it saw that Jrue was ranked 44th (there are roughly 120+ guards in the NBA if a player is ranked 44th he is above average) and thought to yourself if there were 30 teams and you're not in the top 30 then you can't be average and boom you got yourself an argument.

Don't you guys come to these forums to share opinions and learn from others? Well hear what read my posts and learn something before you continue spewing nonesense.

He's not a top 10 or 20 guard in defense, or 30. And that's on a per 48 mins of play, not per game. Maybe he looks like he's playing D but apparently his D doesn't lead to wins.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:39 AM
1. I know
2. basketball reference
3. Monta is, Goran isn't. Jrue is actually better than him
4. CP3 is ranked #1 for a guard in defense, no one in the game better than him

Have you read up on DWS? Do you know what factors are taken into account? Do you know how they are calculated and how different situations, teammates, opponents etc can affect them? If you answered yes to all of the above can you please tell me who is the better defensive player between Kevin McHale and Larry Bird because according to DWS Larry Bird is. Do you agree.

Last question. Have you ever seen Jrue Holiday play defense?

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:41 AM
Have you read up on DWS? Do you know what factors are taken into account? Do you know how they are calculated and how different situations, teammates, opponents etc can affect them? If you answered yes to all of the above can you please tell me who is the better defensive player between Kevin McHale and Larry Bird because according to DWS Larry Bird is. Do you agree.

Last question. Have you ever seen Jrue Holiday play defense?

How about you answer me this first, was Allen Iverson a great defender or not?

I told you I haven't watched the Sixers play this season. Them and Charlotte are the only ones I haven't really watched this season.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:41 AM
He's not a top 10 or 20 guard in defense, or 30. And that's on a per 48 mins of play, not per game. Maybe he looks like he's playing D but apparently his D doesn't lead to wins.

Do you understand the stats in which you are using because right now you're just being like one of those dudes who don't know anything about advanced metrics but are using them because they look cool. Word of advice learn before you speak my fair child.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:45 AM
How about you answer me this first, was Allen Iverson a great defender or not?

And I bet if I answer your question you will never answer mine. According to DWS Allen Iverson is the 2nd best defensive guard from 00-05 (http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/all-defensive-teams-using-defensive-win.html), according to Allen Iverson's biggest fanboy on PSD Allen Iverson was NEVER a great defender. He had his times when he was a good defender but he was NEVER a great defender. He was too weak, small and never really committed himself enough on staying on and defending the man he was supposed to be guarding. Allen Iverson was however GREAT at reading opposing teams ball movement and playing the lanes. He was a good defensive player never a great defender. You however clearly don't know the difference.

Now that I have answered your questions I dare you to answer all those that I have asked you.

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:49 AM
Do you understand the stats in which you are using because right now you're just being like one of those dudes who don't know anything about advanced metrics but are using them because they look cool. Word of advice learn before you speak my fair child.

Every other statline shows borderline average, yet he's an underrated defender. I know the formula going into DWS. For instance Ronnie Brewer was ranked high in this, JKidd was ranked high in this, LBJ, DWade, Omir Asik, Jeff Teague a few seasons ago. This season Jrue on this formula evaluation of what he does on court, shows he's one of the poorer ones. Joe Johnson is also low in this and wow look Deron Williams too, but Jrue is the exception b/c he's doing something we're not seeing. :rolleyes:

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 01:52 AM
And I bet if I answer your question you will never answer mine. According to DWS Allen Iverson is the 2nd best defensive guard from 00-05 (http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/all-defensive-teams-using-defensive-win.html), according to Allen Iverson's biggest fanboy on PSD Allen Iverson was NEVER a great defender. He had his times when he was a good defender but he was NEVER a great defender. He was too weak, small and never really committed himself enough on staying on and defending the man he was supposed to be guarding. Allen Iverson was however GREAT at reading opposing teams ball movement and playing the lanes. He was a good defensive player never a great defender. You however clearly don't know the difference.

Now that I have answered your questions I dare you to answer all those that I have asked you.

But everyone knows AI was all about jumping the passing lanes, yet these are possessions he stopped. That's why he was ranked high. Basketball is a game of possessions and he stopped a large margin of them. He was average on man to man 1 on 1, but lets be honest which PG was burning AI at that time?

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:54 AM
Every other statline shows borderline average, yet he's an underrated defender. I know the formula going into DWS. For instance Ronnie Brewer was ranked high in this, JKidd was ranked high in this, LBJ, DWade, Omir Asik, Jeff Teague a few seasons ago. This season Jrue on this formula evaluation of what he does on court, shows he's one of the poorer ones. Joe Johnson is also low in this and wow look Deron Williams too, but Jrue is the exception b/c he's doing something we're not seeing. :rolleyes:

By this answer I can tell you CLEARLY don't understand how DWS are found.

I wonder if you think David Lee, Carlos Boozer and Greg Monroe are better defensively than Serge Ibaka and Kevin Garnett or that Rudy Gay is a better defender than LeBron James, Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala.

Read my posts on the first page of this thread and please learn something then come back and talk to me. Dude believe me if you open your mind and read my threads you'd learn something. Right now you're just making a fool of yourself.

tripleplay2007
12-31-2012, 01:57 AM
Above Average

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:57 AM
But everyone knows AI was all about jumping the passing lanes, yet these are possessions he stopped. That's why he was ranked high. Basketball is a game of possessions and he stopped a large margin of them. He was average on man to man 1 on 1, but lets be honest which PG was burning AI at that time?

Damn near everyone of them in the 1 on 1. I watched A.I. growing up, I'm grown and I still watch film of A.I. every chance I get, I've read what the coaches have said, I've listen to Allen Iverson himself, I have as good of an understanding of the stats as I could have and even know I'm trying to understand them some more but Allen Iverson was never a great defender. An extremely valuable player on D yes but he wasn't in any way shape or form great.

Larry Bird or Kevin McHale who was the better defender?

KniCks4LiFe
12-31-2012, 02:02 AM
By this answer I can tell you CLEARLY don't understand how DWS are found.

I wonder if you think David Lee, Carlos Boozer and Greg Monroe are better defensively than Serge Ibaka and Kevin Garnett or that Rudy Gay is a better defender than LeBron James, Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala.

Read my posts on the first page of this thread and please learn something then come back and talk to me. Dude believe me if you open your mind and read my threads you'd learn something. Right now you're just making a fool of yourself.

Actually I do. I just don't want to entertain this, it's obvious if someone is using a stat to access player performances, they read what the formula is and the success rate in using it.

I wonder why you are telling me all that like I'm going to look it up right now. Lee isn't a top defender, Boozer is ranked high w/ minimized mins. Monroe these are obvious trying to start some mess questions. I'll simply say no they aren't.

I can see this is not turning mature. I'll leave you and Jrue's superstar caliber defense thread to yourself. Carry on.

SeoulBeatz
12-31-2012, 02:03 AM
And I bet if I answer your question you will never answer mine. According to DWS Allen Iverson is the 2nd best defensive guard from 00-05 (http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/all-defensive-teams-using-defensive-win.html), according to Allen Iverson's biggest fanboy on PSD Allen Iverson was NEVER a great defender. He had his times when he was a good defender but he was NEVER a great defender. He was too weak, small and never really committed himself enough on staying on and defending the man he was supposed to be guarding. Allen Iverson was however GREAT at reading opposing teams ball movement and playing the lanes. He was a good defensive player never a great defender. You however clearly don't know the difference.

Now that I have answered your questions I dare you to answer all those that I have asked you.

lol solid points man. A.I was a piss poor defender. I'm one of the biggest A.I fans on this site but if those stats are correct, there's definitely a flaw in the system.


And to the guy who said Monta's a better defender, get real.

Alayla
12-31-2012, 02:03 AM
I didn't even read this before I posted in this thread or replied to Bagwell :laugh2:

Where did this stem from?

the Jrue Vs curry Thread

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 02:13 AM
Actually I do. I just don't want to entertain this, it's obvious if someone is using a stat to access player performances, they read what the formula is and the success rate in using it.

I wonder why you are telling me all that like I'm going to look it up right now. Lee isn't a top defender, Boozer is ranked high w/ minimized mins. Monroe these are obvious trying to start some mess questions. I'll simply say no they aren't.

I can see this is not turning mature. I'll leave you and Jrue's superstar caliber defense thread to yourself. Carry on.

I'll say this to you one last time before you leave the thread running with your tail between your legs. READ MY POSTS on the first page and learn something about basketball. it's for your own good.

What's good for the goose can't be good for the gander. How can you say Monta is a better defender than Jrue because he was more DWS but Lee, Monroe and Boozer (again saying that Boozer has minimized minutes and that's why he has more DWS shows you utter lack of understanding of the stat in which you are using) aren't better than Serge and KG. Your reasoning should hold true across the board since that's the only reason you got.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 02:13 AM
the Jrue Vs curry Thread

From the point that Bagwell said Curry averages more APG I didn't even bother reading anymore. Ignorance at its finest. Having no idea how well a player is playing but is trying to argue against him. Get real.

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 02:19 AM
lol solid points man. A.I was a piss poor defender. I'm one of the biggest A.I fans on this site but if those stats are correct, there's definitely a flaw in the system.


And to the guy who said Monta's a better defender, get real.

The problem isn't really the stat though, it's people's interpretation of it and how it should be used. Its like Bagwell trying to say that Jrue's DRtg this season going up is a result of him playing poor D that's absolutely idiotic thinking for someone who claims to have a better statistical understanding than most. If your team is playing poor defensively your stats will reflect as such ESPECIALLY if you're a PG who's logging major minutes.

bagwell368
12-31-2012, 11:40 AM
As for the Bolded you sound utterly insane.

Insane? How about you? I didn't write you a PM full of 76'ers players names, complete with self justifying rant, after denigrating what I saw this year and last with my own eyes. Last year as I said Jrue was excellent on D v the Celts. But this year in the 3 full games I saw and two partial games I saw - he was not, quite the opposite. That's a lot of games for a non 76'ers fan to have taken in. Since this post you even admitted Jrue was not good in two of those games. Since this year is the target of your attentions on Curry v Jrue, how he has played this year is what matters. Advanced stats back me up as well.


I attack the sixers fanbase for overrating players on a regular basis Turner being the most common people make him sound like a future allstar when at best he has been an Average starter this season and at wrost has looked cringe worthy depending on the night

Off topic


I consistently Booed lou willams and wanted him out of town he has to be the most Overrated guard in the nba right now and shot us out of countless games
And nick young is no better dorell wright has been a disappointment and so has J rich dont act as if im some blind fan with no grasp on where players on my team rank

Search for justification? Cool, but as I wrote in response to your 2ND PM, you won't get it from me.

2-ONE-5
12-31-2012, 11:48 AM
just ask Kyrie Irving how good Jrues defense is, he drove him nuts in their only meeting. but he is in a heavily increased offensive role this year and he is desperatley needed more on offense right now just to keep us hoovering around .500

JiffyMix88
12-31-2012, 12:08 PM
Where is the above average option. I had a feeling after how well he played Curry there was gonna be some threads popping up but I wouldnt read too much this early in the season but he has played well on both ends of the court thus far.

Alayla
12-31-2012, 01:18 PM
Insane? How about you? I didn't write you a PM full of 76'ers players names, complete with self justifying rant, after denigrating what I saw this year and last with my own eyes. Last year as I said Jrue was excellent on D v the Celts. But this year in the 3 full games I saw and two partial games I saw - he was not, quite the opposite. That's a lot of games for a non 76'ers fan to have taken in. Since this post you even admitted Jrue was not good in two of those games. Since this year is the target of your attentions on Curry v Jrue, how he has played this year is what matters. Advanced stats back me up as well.



Off topic



Search for justification? Cool, but as I wrote in response to your 2ND PM, you won't get it from me.

No they dont read swashcuffs posts lol

Swashcuff
12-31-2012, 01:32 PM
No they dont read swashcuffs posts lol

Dude don't even bother with that dude. He's ignoring my posts and the point of actual topic of this thread to feed his own self centered POV. You have a right to laugh because right now he's nothing short of a comedian.

ichitownclowni
12-31-2012, 01:40 PM
Seems like like he is a playmaker on D with blks and steals but let's easy stuff go

yaswaggin
01-01-2013, 12:13 PM
I love how swashcuff owned bagwells and bagwells instead of responding to swashcuff basically repeated his first post