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View Full Version : Does the league promote Stat padding?



JasonJohnHorn
12-30-2012, 01:51 PM
This article is actually from 2009, so it's a little old, but I think still very relevent: http://deadspin.com/5345287/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper


In it, a scorekeeper for the then Vancouver Grizzlies talks about how he was instructed to be 'liberal' when giving stats, especially to their own players, but sometimes to other players as well. He notes one example when Hakeem was a block away from a triple-double and one of his bosses told him to make sure Hakeem got the triple-double (which he actually did get without help from the scorekeeper). But this went on a lot. In protest the scorekeeper actually over-awarded assists to Nick Van Excel one night (23) and expected to get scolded for it, but he didn't. Nobody even brought it up. The gys above thought it was good press to the team to make it on 'sports centre' even if it was showing how the team got taken to town by another player.

Do these stats impact the out come of the game? No. But they can make a player looker better than he is, or in the case of the Clippers, worse than he is. The Clippers' scorekeepers actually gave their players less assists than the road scorekeepers did. Why? There are a couple of reasons, one is to lower the value of your own free agents so they are easier to sign and other teams don't offer them as much.

And adversley, teams can be inclined to up a guy's stats to improve his trade value.


How are stats impacted? Well... things like FGA and FG made, they are pretty objective. But assists, steals and blocks can be very subjective.

Rodman for example, apparently got a lot of rebounds for tipping the ball out to players on the wing. When award the rebound the scorekeeper can either award it to the guy who tipped it, or the guy who caught the tip. I believe they could also count it as a 'team' rebound. They used to have 'team' rebounds, not sure if they still do.

Likewise for steals, a player could tip the ball, and another player on his team could pick it up. Either player can be attributed with the steal.

Assists are the trickiest ones. A PG sees a guy is open and throws him the ball. The defender comes at him and the guy drives to the basket with two dribble after a head fake. Does the PG get an assist? Or the PG dumps it into a post player who takes two dribbles as he steps in and the does a turnaroudn hook. Is that an assist? Some would say yes, and some would say no. So here is where the numbers can get inflated.

Blocks, I think would seem pretty objective, but the guy in the article says they could fudge them as well.

Thoughts? Do people intentionally inflate stats? Are the numbers that guys like Stockton and Rodman put up questionable? Does this impact any current players who are getting the benefit of generous scorekeepers?

What are your thoughts?

Bigbadmoffo
12-30-2012, 02:10 PM
I see no problem here and wish they did it more.

ATL#22
12-30-2012, 02:30 PM
I see no problem here and wish they did it more.

Lebron James is averaging 40 pts 20 rebounds. There you go I just stat padded for you

MrfadeawayJB
12-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Of course stat padding is promoted. It's even evident on 2K13

Chronz
12-30-2012, 03:48 PM
As long as the Home:Road splits are somewhat consistent its not a problem, but home teams can definitely overdo it sometimes.

Check out this Damian Lillard assist: http://youtu.be/s0gpxlJc6VY

Not that Portland is stat padding, they made a wrong call but Lillard is actually averaging more assists outside of Portland

IndyRealist
12-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Team rebounds are when the opposing team takes a shot and it goes out of bounds without anyone touching it. It's not a turnover, so it's credited as a "team rebound" to keep the number of possessions even.

JPS
12-30-2012, 04:36 PM
Stat keepers should be officials part of a ref crew employed by the league not by teams. Another example of corruption being acceptable and part of the norm in the NBA. If it is all about the $ and the press/ratings the purity of the product can suffer.

PC
12-30-2012, 04:54 PM
As long as the Home:Road splits are somewhat consistent its not a problem, but home teams can definitely overdo it sometimes.

Check out this Damian Lillard assist: http://youtu.be/s0gpxlJc6VY

Not that Portland is stat padding, they made a wrong call but Lillard is actually averaging more assists outside of Portland

Reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jViRGSJZFcE#t=1m11s

Chronz
12-30-2012, 05:07 PM
Reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jViRGSJZFcE#t=1m11s

Have you seen the assist where Rondo gives it to KG who then dumps it off to Shaq for the finish.

Boston is gaining that friendly rep with me. Just like Utah back in the 90's. I heard PHX has a history of suppressing assists (with both KJ/Nash) but who knows, it could be random.

JasonJohnHorn
12-30-2012, 07:16 PM
I heard PHX has a history of suppressing assists (with both KJ/Nash) but who knows, it could be random.

I wonder why Phoenix would want to do that? I mean, I understood the rumour about the Clippers doing it to lower the value of their free agents... but why would Phoenix do that for either player I wonder?




The league really needs to hire people do to this who aren't from the area and have them travel to games like officials.

Aust
12-30-2012, 09:42 PM
Yes, a ton of stat padding occurs, especially with the top 20 players

Chronz
12-31-2012, 01:46 AM
I wonder why Phoenix would want to do that? I mean, I understood the rumour about the Clippers doing it to lower the value of their free agents... but why would Phoenix do that for either player I wonder?
I highly doubt thats the reason, the resulting difference in production wouldn't change a players market value, those are prolly just a result of subjectivity with assists. Like the year we had Andre Miller, his assist were better at home.



The league really needs to hire people do to this who aren't from the area and have them travel to games like officials.
I would like the league to do alot more than that with regards to the metrics they track but this is lower down the list of priorities.

PC
12-31-2012, 02:15 AM
Have you seen the assist where Rondo gives it to KG who then dumps it off to Shaq for the finish.

Boston is gaining that friendly rep with me. Just like Utah back in the 90's. I heard PHX has a history of suppressing assists (with both KJ/Nash) but who knows, it could be random.

Yea I remember that, it was like a hockey assist. I'd like to see the NBA keep track of hockey assists and for that matter passes that lead to fouls but that was pretty ridiculous

I also heard a few years ago when Collison was a rookie that the Hornets were pretty generous with assists as well. I haven't watched enough Hornets games to know if that's accurate or not thou

--23--
12-31-2012, 04:45 AM
Yep stat padding occurs and is promoted, it's also mentioned on 2k13 lol.

If you ever play with the Clippers the commentators will talk about how the score keeper in LA, would kindly up Chris Paul assist numbers during his first year there. I thought it was funny how they brought that up. :laugh2:

JerseyPalahniuk
12-31-2012, 03:32 PM
Wow. awesome article. I never thought scorekeepers would ever downgrade a players stats.