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View Full Version : 80s and 90s nostalgia



Jahari Kavi
12-28-2012, 01:00 AM
I just felt the need to make this thread, because it is evident that so many people are caught up in romanticizing and creating a fictional past about basketball in the 80s and 90s. There are players and teams today that are every bit as good and some even "better" than some of the teams from the 80s and 90s. A "legit" analysis is saying that there aren't as many great centers in the league, a "romanticized" BS myth is saying guys were "tougher" back then....yes there were tough physical teams and defenses, but there have also been some great defensive/physical teams in recent memory as well (Pistons title team from 04, Celtics from 08, Spurs during their title runs, etc)....these teams could lock into you just like Pistons of the late 80s or the Knicks of the 90s and to be honest they may even be better (I'd actually take the 3 I mentioned over the Knicks any day of the week for several reasons)......So can we please stop with the myths....Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Durant or whoever could be great in any era......

Jahari Kavi
12-28-2012, 01:07 AM
I will say that some of this nostalgia is due in part to the media. For example, I am watching Charles Barkley tonight criticize Collison (his first year starting for Dallas) for being "dumb as bricks" and how guys who play now don't have b ball IQ....as if Nick Van Exel wasn't a chucker??? lol...and as much as I love him Sam Cassell

Chronz
12-28-2012, 01:27 AM
I knew it was related to TNT

iam brett favre
12-28-2012, 06:17 AM
Yeah I agree...I think after this era is all said and done, some time passes, people will realize how great some of these guys are.

JasonJohnHorn
12-28-2012, 10:59 AM
Kobe wouldn't do as well in the 90's and 80's. Not with the hand checking. I expect that Durant, who is a great shooter, would be able to do just about as well, and LBJ likley in the same boat.

The Spurs and the Celtics are likely the only two teams you mentioned that would have been able to win in that era. The Pistons, who I love, I don't think would have been able to do it. They were not as good as the Pistons in 89/90.

The center position was so tough, teams like the Heat would get killed there... though Jordan did manage to win without a center, but he also had perhaps the greatest rebounder in the history of the game compensating for the rebounds that the center wasn't getting. I doubt Bosh or Haslem would be able to compensate for the the way Rodman did.

I think the Lakers roster with Kobe, Pau and Bynum and MWP might have been able to win, and the Spurs would have won for sure. Celtics, likely.

But yeah... the league was deeper then. There was mroe parity. you had so many AMAZING players. The league is just not as good as it was then. It's not. It is good... but not that good.


Now, I will agree, the league is perhaps deeper at PG now than it was then, and the SF position is certainly as good now as it has ever been (LBJ and Durant would match up favourably with Bird and Wilkens, or Pippen). But center? I mean, the best center in the league today wouldn't even be able to make the All-NBA third team in the 80's or 90's. And the PF, save Love, Duncan and Garnett, cannot compete with the PFs from the 80's and 90's. For PF, the guys at the top are very close, I would say Garnett and Duncan were at least as good as Barkley and Malone, but if we are talking about over all depth at the position, that is somethhing else entirely.

And at SG, I mean, Drexler would be putting up better numbers than Kobe is today if he played with no hand-checking. Jordan though, obviously the best SG to ever play the game by far. Then they have guy like Mitch Richmond and Reggie Miller. Today we have Kobe, Wade (who already seems past his prime) and Ray Allen. Again, the guys at the top would match up well (though the 80/90s has a clear edge), but the depth, and at this position the defence, is completely different.

Swashcuff
12-28-2012, 11:18 AM
No one with a brain would say that LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Dirk etc wouldn't be legit in any era, what they would say however is that in some instances those players would have to adapt (as the players who came before them did) to their surroundings. These are all world talents we're talking about they can easily adapt to different situations.

What about when its the opposite though OP. What about the myths that Russell would be no better than Ben Wallace in today's NBA and even the occasional idiot saying Jerry West wouldn't even be a starter in today's NBA or Walt Frazier being a poor man's Steve Francis? What say you about those?

nycericanguy
12-28-2012, 11:35 AM
This thread made me think Pippen immediately.

I think he gets very overrated in terms of ERA's, I hear people on here saying he'd be a top 5 player if he played today.

JasonJohnHorn
12-28-2012, 12:34 PM
This thread made me think Pippen immediately.

I think he gets very overrated in terms of ERA's, I hear people on here saying he'd be a top 5 player if he played today.

Pippen would be top five at his position today, but he wasn't even really top-five when he played. I think LBJ and Durant are clearly better than Pippen, and Melo perhaps as well (he is certainly a better scorer and rebounder in some seasons, but not as good a play maker or defender). Pippen was also one of those guys who took a few seasons to develop into his full potential, where as LBJ and Durant were practically there in their sophomore seasons. Pippen was there for 5 or 6 seasons. Pippen would have developed more along the lines of Artest/MWP and Granger (though better than both). But yeah, Pippen is likely not a top-five player in any generation, as good as he was, though he is top-five at his position in any generation.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2012, 04:46 PM
uh, great players are great players, and would be awesome in any era. Some may be better or worse, but its not like if you sent Dirk back to 1985 he wouldn't be awesome.

Hellcrooner
12-28-2012, 04:54 PM
uh, great players are great players, and would be awesome in any era. Some may be better or worse, but its not like if you sent Dirk back to 1985 he wouldn't be awesome.

mmm

I think Dirk and Pau in 1985 would have slight worse careers.

they would be Schrempf and Rick Smits if you get me.

Daaaarryyl
12-28-2012, 05:23 PM
1-Of course the league is weaker, there are more teams now due to expansion

2-The great players of today would still be great players in any era

LOOTERX9
12-28-2012, 06:31 PM
I agree with the op. Those top teams in 80's were stacked but they were only great for that era of competition. Today's athletes are much quicker and have more hybrid skills than the ones from the 80's. That's just the evolution of the game of basketball. Today's top players are just as great or better than the stars of 90's and 80's because of evolution. only one you can say was better was jordan but even he would struggle against a prime kobe and shaq laker team.

AddiX
12-28-2012, 06:38 PM
It's not that stars wouldn't be good, they just wouldn't get away with what they do now.

Derrick rose is a great player in any era. Put him out there in the 80s or 90s though and they'll lay him out. Go look at what detroit did to mj when he was a young buck.

They beat him down so bad mj still has a grudge against them, especially zeke.

That's just the difference between now and than.

WhiteSoxGod
12-28-2012, 06:44 PM
Hakeem Olajuwon would dominate Dwight Howard. Howard would cry like a little schoolgirl. --- Circa 1994 ---

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-28-2012, 06:53 PM
Kobe wouldn't do as well in the 90's and 80's. Not with the hand checking. I expect that Durant, who is a great shooter, would be able to do just about as well, and LBJ likley in the same boat.

The Spurs and the Celtics are likely the only two teams you mentioned that would have been able to win in that era. The Pistons, who I love, I don't think would have been able to do it. They were not as good as the Pistons in 89/90.

The center position was so tough, teams like the Heat would get killed there... though Jordan did manage to win without a center, but he also had perhaps the greatest rebounder in the history of the game compensating for the rebounds that the center wasn't getting. I doubt Bosh or Haslem would be able to compensate for the the way Rodman did.

I think the Lakers roster with Kobe, Pau and Bynum and MWP might have been able to win, and the Spurs would have won for sure. Celtics, likely.

But yeah... the league was deeper then. There was mroe parity. you had so many AMAZING players. The league is just not as good as it was then. It's not. It is good... but not that good.


Now, I will agree, the league is perhaps deeper at PG now than it was then, and the SF position is certainly as good now as it has ever been (LBJ and Durant would match up favourably with Bird and Wilkens, or Pippen). But center? I mean, the best center in the league today wouldn't even be able to make the All-NBA third team in the 80's or 90's. And the PF, save Love, Duncan and Garnett, cannot compete with the PFs from the 80's and 90's. For PF, the guys at the top are very close, I would say Garnett and Duncan were at least as good as Barkley and Malone, but if we are talking about over all depth at the position, that is somethhing else entirely.

And at SG, I mean, Drexler would be putting up better numbers than Kobe is today if he played with no hand-checking. Jordan though, obviously the best SG to ever play the game by far. Then they have guy like Mitch Richmond and Reggie Miller. Today we have Kobe, Wade (who already seems past his prime) and Ray Allen. Again, the guys at the top would match up well (though the 80/90s has a clear edge), but the depth, and at this position the defence, is completely different.

All i did was read your opening sentence:facepalm:

Chronz
12-28-2012, 07:04 PM
mmm

I think Dirk and Pau in 1985 would have slight worse careers.

they would be Schrempf and Rick Smits if you get me.

Rik Smits would definitely suffer in this era. Dont know what your talking about, either way its not a night and day difference.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2012, 07:33 PM
mmm

I think Dirk and Pau in 1985 would have slight worse careers.

they would be Schrempf and Rick Smits if you get me.

Dirk is 7' and can shoot from anywhere. He would be fine in any era.

JasonJohnHorn
12-28-2012, 08:38 PM
All i did was read your opening sentence:facepalm:

Kobe's skill set, like Melo for example, reliees on iso plays, and the hand checking makes iso plays harder.

Kobe would still be an all-star level player, but I don't think he would have been as effective in the late 80s and into the 90s as he is today. It was just a different league back then. SGs had to be great shooters. Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Jordan, Drexler. These guys were all better shooters than Kobe. Now Kobe is likely a better iso player then everybody on that list save Jordan, but like I said, iso plays were harder back then. Woudl Kobe have been able to adjust? Maybe. Maybe not. No way to know. That is the nature of the conversation. But from my observation, I would think the skills of a guy like LBJ, who has a lot of power and a great shot, would translate better to that era of play. And Durant's shooting ability would allow him to excel.

It is asking a lot of a guy to change his style of play that much. The game was VERY different back then. It is not meant as a knock on Kobe. The fact os the matter is that LBJ likely wouldn't have to change his game much because he would over power everybody at his position, and would be quicker than a lot of guys, while Kobe would have to make drastic adjustments to his game.

And, I mean, look at the FG% of those guys back in the day at his position. Drexler, jordan, Miller... they all had better percentages than Kobe. Even Dumars and mitch Richmond. If you think Kobe would be able to walk onto the floor in 1989-1995 and be able to do what he does now without drastically changing his game, you are mistaken. And he's never played against the kind of depth at the SG position that Jordan played against, or the kind of defences that Jordan played against.

If prime Jordan walked onto the court today, he would dominat. He woudl be abusing these guys. And this is coming from a Detroit fan who never liked Jordan.