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nickdymez
01-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Why are people still using rings? Magic had Kareem.... Imagine LeBron and prime Timmy. Oh my.....

We always have to imagine **** with Lebron

LBJackpot
01-09-2013, 05:32 PM
We always have to imagine **** with Lebron

Maybe because LeBron was drafted to a joke of a franchise while Magic had Hall of Famers from the get go.

If you dont see the difference than Idk what to say

el hidalgo
01-09-2013, 05:41 PM
We always have to imagine **** with Lebron

haha yeah, unbelievable. "imagine if lebron was drafted to a championship ready team". those lebronites will resort to anything to defend him. great players should win championships regardless of their team - expect for kobe when shaq left, of course.

ThaDubs
01-09-2013, 05:48 PM
haha yeah, unbelievable. "imagine if lebron was drafted to a championship ready team". those lebronites will resort to anything to defend him. great players should win championships regardless of their team - expect for kobe when shaq left, of course.

Regardless of their team? You kidding?
Basketball is a team game. Great players can't singlehandedly win championships.
That's what Kobe's trying to do and look at how the Lakers are doing.

Dnovakovic099
01-09-2013, 06:01 PM
haha yeah, unbelievable. "imagine if lebron was drafted to a championship ready team". those lebronites will resort to anything to defend him. great players should win championships regardless of their team - expect for kobe when shaq left, of course.

Or Joradan without Pippen...

bucketss
01-09-2013, 06:05 PM
i wonder why so called laker fans are the only ones who get emotional about lebron?

Dnovakovic099
01-09-2013, 06:06 PM
We always have to imagine **** with Lebron

So lets not credit Pippen,Rodman,Phil, and the rest of the team for Jordan's success. Lets not credit Kobe for his first three rings because Shaq is the man. If you use the rings argument, what you are telling me is that you are crediting that ring mostly to that specific player. If you aren't then why bring up rings? Then I can say Fisher and Horry are better than LeBron. You can't use rings to compare individual players, unless ofcourse both the players where in similar situations. Magic had a great supporting cast, top 5 all time probably. LeBron virtually had one of the worst teams in NBA history surrounding him. Yet, you use rings as an argument...

Dnovakovic099
01-09-2013, 06:09 PM
I don't know who is better because I never really watched Magic. However, to people using rings as an argument, you guys would lose a debate in about 10 seconds. I do not understand how you cannot comprehend that there are A LOT of other variables that are MORE IMPORTANT than one player that account for winning a championship.

bucketss
01-09-2013, 06:10 PM
haha yeah, unbelievable. "imagine if lebron was drafted to a championship ready team". those lebronites will resort to anything to defend him. great players should win championships regardless of their team - expect for kobe when shaq left, of course.


magic wouldnt be able to carry that cavs team to the finals during lebron's first trip. no way in hell. people saying lebron has no shot are just homers. magic never played on bad teams like lebron.


some of you are crazy. lebron... better than magic...? i just spit my drink all over my keyboard and computer screen. Maybe in the candyland basketball association, but certainly not in the NBA. how many rings LeBlow got? yeah, hes got some catching up before he can even hold magic's jockstrap.


u mad that prime lebron > prime magic?

https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/3/33/Futurama_Fry_Looking_Squint.jpg

3RDASYSTEM
01-09-2013, 06:19 PM
lol... You don't even get it, do you. It's almost cute how stupid you are.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/796/936/Michael-Jordan-and-Kobe-Bryant_display_image.jpg?1300462689
A WannaBe,MirrorImage,CopyCat Whats The Diff?


So dummy whats more impressive

Frontrunning and dictating where you land a spot on a 56 win roster to flame out in playoffs and be a backupguard, MAGIC rode out with ALCINDOR or he was headed back to MICHST.

Or take a 18win team and win it all or get to FINALS 1styr or by yr4? now thats more of something to talk about...it shouldnt be a miracle coming from a true top 5 player ever to 'play' the game to turn a bottom feeder to champion, now how cute is it to be a dummy since i dont get what i say?

why get a pass for not being the player to get that 56win squad over the hump? wasnt he that good? wasnt BEAN that great at playing the game? he couldnt take that team and win 65games with DIESEL also joining? now i see why he was so damn scared to go to NETS/HORNETS, proofs in the pudding even more today

whats so impressive handpicking your way to a damn near 60win team? or in MAGIC's case going to team up with the reigning or perennial league MVP in ALCINDOR?

Now i think about it im glad they didnt choose to go play with bottom feeders,its all biz and the NBA last i checked is a ..biz$$


if KOBE/MAGIC were so damn top 5 or whatever they would have went to the 18win squad and took'em to FINALS right offtop,not frontrun to a contender and belittle the lottery teams who need the 'best' players to draft and build around

nevermind they were frontrunners, too much pressure..it bust pipes(and to think he gets compared to JORDAN mentally)

MAGIC/KOBE handpicked they way to go on championship squads ...when they found out they were headed to lottery bottom fed teams they turned STEVEFRANCHISE(GRIZZ to ROCKETS) on they teams who were drafting

But what else would i expect from psd people who never actually played the game on any level but just suck dick of another player who copied another player who media say is the GOAT

What a bunch of frontrunning dickriders, bigup to ***********

a guy avg 7ppg( rookie reg season) and 15ppg(5thyr in league) in a FINALS series is so far from a top 5 player ever its not even funny, and i dont need to see another 8yrs or 10playoff series to determine if he will be top 5....like i say a athletes career on avg is 5yrs, so it takes me 3yrs to figure it out on whos who and what is what...'gamewise', all that other mediahype(rings)**** is for the birds of psd

and BEAN was who he was, a mirrorimagecopycatwannabe JORDAN, bigup again to ***********...they went from MAGIC to mirrorimagecopycatwannabe JORDAN, no wonder they are so damn proud

and i dont care how young he was when he came in, just like i dont care how old he is now..he was a backupguard who could score but never carried no team to success, always had a no1 option and when those no.1 options dont deliver(SHAQ-GASOL-HOWARD) its always they fault and not the backupguard

i see now, how can you blame a backupguard turned starter for anything that goes wrong? i get it now, thanks to ***********

im sure a while back all you fiens and followers of NBA/ESPN saw how J.BARRY said BEAN studied gamefilm/interviews and everything of JORDAN because he wanted to be just like JORDAN, copy him and mimmick his every move, he said this on the biggestbaddest network...ESPN

this guy walk/talk/play just like JORDAN and gets praised up for it...wackest **** in sports history and this is coming from actual players, in nba and college alike..rather former or present



http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/796/936/Michael-Jordan-and-Kobe-Bryant_display_image.jpg?1300462689
A WannaBe,MirrorImage,CopyCat Whats The Diff?

"That stuff is all blown out of proportion me and Allen are the same people when it comes to wanting greatness and competitiveness, there is not a player in the world that would want to come off the bench if he knew he was supposed to start, the media gives Allen this label but it's false and a lot of players in the league know this. When I think of AI I think of the guy who damn near cost me a championship in 2001, the toughest dude this league has seen."

"When the new generation comes along, you still can't take away from those players," Bryant said. "[Iverson] did stuff that's never been seen before from a guy his size. You can't discount that. He took a team of one scorer(i wonder who he is referring to?) and a bunch of hard-nosed players(nba translation:ALL DEFENDERS JERRY SLOAN STYLE) to the NBA Finals. And when he lost to us, he was doing it during our reign of having a great team(3PEAT Dynasty)."

Dnovakovic099
01-09-2013, 06:28 PM
So dummy whats more impressive

Frontrunning and dictating where you land a spot on a 56 win roster to flame out in playoffs and be a backupguard, MAGIC rode out with ALCINDOR or he was headed back to MICHST.

Or take a 18win team and win it all or get to FINALS 1styr or by yr4? now thats more of something to talk about...it shouldnt be a miracle coming from a true top 5 player ever to 'play' the game to turn a bottom feeder to champion, now how cute is it to be a dummy since i dont get what i say?

why get a pass for not being the player to get that 56win squad over the hump? wasnt he that good? wasnt BEAN that great at playing the game? he couldnt take that team and win 65games with DIESEL also joining? now i see why he was so damn scared to go to NETS/HORNETS, proofs in the pudding even more today


if KOBE/MAGIC were so damn top 5 or whatever they would have went to the 18win squad and took'em to FINALS right offtop,not frontrun to a contender and belittle the lottery teams who need the 'best' players to draft and build around

nevermind they were frontrunners, too much pressure..it bust pipes(and to think he gets compared to JORDAN mentally)

MAGIC/KOBE handpicked they way to go on championship squads ...when they found out they were headed to lottery bottom fed teams they turned STEVEFRANCHISE(GRIZZ to ROCKETS) on they teams who were drafting

But what else would i expect from psd people who never actually played the game on any level but just suck dick of another player who copied another player who media say is the GOAT

What a bunch of frontrunning dickriders, bigup to ***********

a guy avg 7ppg and 15ppg in a FINALS series is so far from a top 5 player ever its not even funny, and i dont need to see another 8yrs or 10playoff series to determine if he will be top 5....like i say a athletes career on avg is 5yrs, so it takes me 3yrs to figure it out on whos who and what is what...'gamewise', all that other mediahype(rings)**** is for the birds of psd

and BEAN was who he was, a mirrorimagecopycatwannabe JORDAN, bigup again to ***********...they went from MAGIC to mirrorimagecopycatwannabe JORDAN, no wonder they are so damn proud

Nah brah, Magic and Kobe have the rings and they are clutch. LeBron is a chocker and not a winner. He couldn't have 5 rings even if he had a great team around him. Nevermind that he got to the finals twice and won it one year already with a good supporting cast. :eyebrow:

ThaDubs
01-09-2013, 07:05 PM
What's with all the hate surrounding Lebron? I'm not a Heat fan at all and I agree that all these kids ball hugging Lebron saying that he's better than Magic are all stupid, but Lebron gets way too much hate. He's the best player in the NBA. He's the champion. He's the MVP. NBA fans nowadays are immature *****es. I'm sure if MJ was in his prime today people would be saying "he's overrated", "he's a ballhog", "all the calls go his way". Stop hating. Stop saying that he couldn't get 5 rings with a great team around him because he already won one. And no I'm not a Lebron wagoner. I'm not even a fan. But really stop the hate.

sammyvine
01-10-2013, 09:59 AM
nope can't see it

he is more talented, but he doesnt have the impact world wide and in the nba that magic and jordan had. when you talk about career, you have to take into account popularity etc.

koreancabbage
01-10-2013, 10:29 AM
nope can't see it

he is more talented, but he doesnt have the impact world wide and in the nba that magic and jordan had. when you talk about career, you have to take into account popularity etc.

than he already has it. popularity wise, the world knows more of Lebron than Magic Johnson. just b/c we're in this day and age where anyone can go on youtube or live stream a game.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 10:44 AM
Nah brah, Magic and Kobe have the rings and they are clutch. LeBron is a chocker and not a winner. He couldn't have 5 rings even if he had a great team around him. Nevermind that he got to the finals twice and won it one year already with a good supporting cast. :eyebrow:
Dude he was the best player in the NBA at the time he joined Wade (top 3 player in the NBA arguably #2) and Bosh who was/is a top 20 player in the NBA.

What is your definition of a good team compared to a great team LBJ had franchise players as his supporting cast in Miami and with all that talent he still didn't win in his 1st year. If MJ, Magic and Bird joined together this would be somewhat of a similar comparison as they were all franchise players for there teams like Wade, Bosh and LBJ.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 10:47 AM
Dude he was the best player in the NBA at the time he joined Wade (top 3 player in the NBA arguably #2) and Bosh who was/is a top 20 player in the NBA.

What is your definition of a good team compared to a great team LBJ had franchise players as his supporting cast in Miamiand with all that talent he still didn't win in his 1st year. If MJ, Magic and Bird joined together this would be somewhat of a similar comparison as they were all franchise players for there teams like Wade, Bosh and LBJ.

:facepalm:

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 10:50 AM
:facepalm:
Great contribution to the thread and

they were all franchise players and top talent in the league....

Also the above players were competitors and wouldn't make the phone call to join up... That's what made Magic and Bird great rivals... Like Lebron and Wade used to be or do you disagree :D

bucketss
01-10-2013, 10:53 AM
lebron and wade never really had much of a rivalry maybe if their teams were stacked like magic/birds they would have had some great battles and probably never would have joined up.

Muttman73
01-10-2013, 10:57 AM
I doubt it, Magic meant something to the league, people loved him. He was a good guy and he won, alot. LeBron is and always will be a selfish, me first punk.

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Dude he was the best player in the NBA at the time he joined Wade (top 3 player in the NBA arguably #2) and Bosh who was/is a top 20 player in the NBA.

What is your definition of a good team compared to a great team LBJ had franchise players as his supporting cast in Miami and with all that talent he still didn't win in his 1st year. If MJ, Magic and Bird joined together this would be somewhat of a similar comparison as they were all franchise players for there teams like Wade, Bosh and LBJ.

So which one are you comparing to Bosh? :eyebrow:

bucketss
01-10-2013, 11:03 AM
I doubt it, Magic meant something to the league, people loved him. He was a good guy and he won, alot. LeBron is and always will be a selfish, me first punk.


i think you're mistaking lebron for kobe.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 11:03 AM
I disagree they were always compared when they played each other I even remember some games with Wade staring down Lebron (good times).

These guys were in there prime when they joined forces (Lebron not even there yet)... Also lets not pretend that Wades team was never stacked at anytime in his career and that LBJ and such a poor supporting cast when he was a top seed how many times even top 4 seed in the east when Wade won his 1st NBA championship.

I think people are forgetting how great there teams were and stacked at times.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 11:07 AM
So which one are you comparing to Bosh? :eyebrow:
Just comparing them as franchise players which everyone that I mentioned was the only difference is that Wade, LBJ and Bosh all joined forces because they probably felt they were not able to be leaders on there own squads and take there teams to the promise land. This is almost where I have more respect for Kobe he was not always stacked as people say....

When Shaq left they were garbage for sometime but he stuck it out remained the leader of the squad and became a champion again after sometime.

Edit:

To me that is what a champion/leader is not someone who takes the easy way out to add success to there resume.

h2r09
01-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Just comparing them as franchise players which everyone that I mentioned was the only difference is that Wade, LBJ and Bosh all joined forces because they probably felt they were not able to be leaders on there own squads and take there teams to the promise land. This is almost where I have more respect for Kobe he was not always stacked as people say....

When Shaq left they were garbage for sometime but he stuck it out remained the leader of the squad and became a champion again after sometime.

Edit:

To me that is what a champion/leader is not someone who takes the easy way out to add success to there resume.
yeah, he totally stuck it out when he requested a trade to the bulls when they sucked for those years.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 11:22 AM
History is what it is... He's been a Laker for life and regardless of the talent around him...

If you don't like the analogy I used then we can use Tim Duncan if you want :D

Same team bro through highs and lows.

ziglur
01-10-2013, 11:22 AM
James might end up with better stats because. Magic played at a time where they didnt give you the lane the way they give it up for Lebron. They would punish you back then without being called for fragrant fouls. No defenders today much. Wade would be killed down low along with about half the pgs today. Melo thinks Garnet is bad. If he played against Rodman he would be crying and frustrated and sucking his thumb. Its a different game today.

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 11:24 AM
I disagree they were always compared when they played each other I even remember some games with Wade staring down Lebron (good times).

These guys were in there prime when they joined forces (Lebron not even there yet)... Also lets not pretend that Wades team was never stacked at anytime in his career and that LBJ and such a poor supporting cast when he was a top seed how many times even top 4 seed in the east when Wade won his 1st NBA championship.

I think people are forgetting how great there teams were and stacked at times.

You're not implying that Cleveland was stacked by any means are you?


Just comparing them as franchise players which everyone that I mentioned was the only difference is that Wade, LBJ and Bosh all joined forces because they probably felt they were not able to be leaders on there own squads and take there teams to the promise land.


Yea but you're comparison is kind of misleading. You already clarified that Wade was a top 2-3 player and that Bosh's top 20. If we line it up like this:

Lbj-Jordan (both the best in the league)
Wade-Magic/Bird (2-3rd best players in the league)
Bosh- Magic/Bird (seems fishy to me)

Demarcus Cousins is a "franchise player" but you damn sure wouldn't put him near a discussion in pertaince to Bird or Magic. Just trying to make your comparison more transparent.


This is almost where I have more respect for Kobe he was not always stacked as people say....

It's pretty stacked if you're not even the best player on that team and you're a top 12 all time great.


When Shaq left they were garbage for sometime but he stuck it out remained the leader of the squad and became a champion again after sometime.

Lol that's because it's freaking LA dude, who doesn't want to play there? Who compares the desirability of Cleveland, to LA?

Remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YpXTTPlqcM)

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 11:26 AM
yeah, he totally stuck it out when he requested a trade to the bulls when they sucked for those years.
Here's an article addressing what you talked about....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927

Again when I look at history dude has been a laker for life!

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 11:33 AM
To me that is what a champion/leader is not someone who takes the easy way out to add success to there resume.

What's your take on this?


From Mike Downey of the L.A. Times, circa ‘91:
Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

“I’d have stayed in school,” he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. “A coin toss changed the course of my whole life.”

Chicago called heads in a 1979 coin flip with Los Angeles for the No. 1 pick in the NBA college draft. It came up tails.

Johnson signed with the Lakers after his sophomore year of college and proceeded to win five championships. The Bulls picked second, took UCLA’s David Greenwood and have won no championships.

“I wouldn’t have played here,” Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. “The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

Magic flashback: “from college, I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird.”

bucketss
01-10-2013, 11:36 AM
I disagree they were always compared when they played each other I even remember some games with Wade staring down Lebron (good times).

These guys were in there prime when they joined forces (Lebron not even there yet)... Also lets not pretend that Wades team was never stacked at anytime in his career and that LBJ and such a poor supporting cast when he was a top seed how many times even top 4 seed in the east when Wade won his 1st NBA championship.

I think people are forgetting how great there teams were and stacked at times.

they never even faced each other in the playoffs just some meaningless regular season games this is disappointing since they play in the same conference. lebrons teams and stacked shouldn't even be in the same sentence wade had a good team but it all fell apart after the championship from there he played with one of the worst if not the worst supporting cast i have ever seen.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 11:51 AM
Yea but you're comparison is kind of misleading. You already clarified that Wade was a top 2-3 player and that Bosh's top 20. If we line it up like this:

Lbj-Jordan (both the best in the league)
Wade-Magic/Bird (2-3rd best players in the league)
Bosh- Magic/Bird (seems fishy to me)


What was your point exactly Bird, Magic and Jordan never joined up I fail to understand the relevance.



Demarcus Cousins is a "franchise player" but you damn sure wouldn't put him near a discussion in pertaince to Bird or Magic. Just trying to make your comparison more transparent.


I guess the difference is the franchise players I mentioned who joined up all lead there teams to the playoffs at one time or another... 1 with Shaq even lead his team to a championship. DMC well ummmmmmm he's a headcase that hasn't been much of a leader and done nothing for his current franchise.






Lol that's because it's freaking LA dude, who doesn't want to play there? Who compares the desirability of Cleveland, to LA?


Who said that Cleveland was more desirable than LA????

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 11:54 AM
they never even faced each other in the playoffs just some meaningless regular season games this is disappointing since they play in the same conference. lebrons teams and stacked shouldn't even be in the same sentence wade had a good team but it all fell apart after the championship from there he played with one of the worst if not the worst supporting cast i have ever seen.
I guess that's why he joined up with the top players in the league and one of them who lead his squad to a championship and the other to the playoffs.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 12:05 PM
they never even faced each other in the playoffs just some meaningless regular season games this is disappointing since they play in the same conference. lebrons teams and stacked shouldn't even be in the same sentence wade had a good team but it all fell apart after the championship from there he played with one of the worst if not the worst supporting cast i have ever seen.
I don't know what to say but I remember a year when they traded Ilgauskas got Antwan Jamison and then got Ilgauskas back for nothing.

They have pulled sneaky moves at times to beef up there squad without giving anything away.

LBJ just had a really poor playoff run that year and then joined up with some top talent in Wade and Bosh again who have lead there teams into the playoffs before (and Wade leading his team to a championship).

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 12:07 PM
What's your take on this?
My take is he was drafted by the Lakers

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
b@llhog24 I enjoyed this quote you put in by the way...

Magic flashback: “from college, I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird.”

He was trying to figure out how to beat a top player in the league not join him... Good quote!

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 12:35 PM
What was your point exactly Bird, Magic and Jordan never joined up I fail to understand the relevance.

Because you said:


If MJ, Magic and Bird joined together this would be somewhat of a similar comparison

It's not similar comparison because even though Bosh is a franchise player, he's not a comparable talent to Magic or Bird.


I guess the difference is the franchise players I mentioned who joined up all lead there teams to the playoffs at one time or another... 1 with Shaq even lead his team to a championship. DMC well ummmmmmm he's a headcase that hasn't been much of a leader and done nothing for his current franchise.

So being drafted to a ready made contender doesn't count? You're acting as if LeBron actually had the talent to succeed in Cleveland. He carried them way further than they had any business being.

Also doesn't matter, DMC is still the current franchise player for the Sacramento Kings, whether that's by default or whatever measure, I don't really care.



Who said that Cleveland was more desirable than LA????

My bad, mental lapse. Thought you were comparing the roster support that he had his throughout his entire career to the ones surrounding Kobe and Magic.

Think of it like this, in the years he's had adequate roster support he wins the chip 50% while being his usually dominating self. As an individual talent/player I don't think it's ludicrous to say he's better than Magic, he doesn't however have a better career at the moment but I'll say it's pretty attainable for him.


My take is he was drafted by the Lakers

Kind of goes against what you just said though.


b@llhog24 I enjoyed this quote you put in by the way...

Magic flashback: “from college, I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird.”

He was trying to figure out how to beat a top player in the league not join him... Good quote!

So basically he couldn't beat him by himself so he "forced" his way to team up with the greatest C of all time? Sounds about right :)

ManRam
01-10-2013, 12:36 PM
I doubt it, Magic meant something to the league, people loved him. He was a good guy and he won, alot. LeBron is and always will be a selfish, me first punk.

:confused:

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 12:42 PM
:confused:

"The decision", T-shirt that reads " Check my stats".. Refering to himself in the 3rd person, tat calling himself "King"... Are you that blinded right now?

ManRam
01-10-2013, 12:46 PM
"The decision", T-shirt that reads " Check my stats".. Refering to himself in the 3rd person, tat calling himself "King"... Are you that blinded right now?

Do you watch him play basketball though? He might love the attention. He might have an ego. He might do that stuff off the court (like most every other star athlete). But as a basketball player he is as selfless as he gets.

Are you blinded by that right now?

Off the court stuff has nothing to do with anything we should be discussing. We're talking about his basketball legacy...not whether or not he likes attention or has an ego.

I'm sure you were on of those guys bashing him whenever he would (make the right) pass late in games/during buzzer beaters. LeBron has never been called a selfish basketball player by anyone he's played with, played for, or even by any respectable analyst.

SteBO
01-10-2013, 12:55 PM
"The decision", T-shirt that reads " Check my stats".. Refering to himself in the 3rd person, tat calling himself "King"... Are you that blinded right now?
Isn't this thread about LBJ's career? Not getting how off the court apparell and things said so damn long ago are relevant.....

ManRam
01-10-2013, 12:56 PM
We always have to imagine **** with Lebron

It's not anything you should ignore though.

He was drafted by the Cavaliers, a lowly franchise with no real history of winning. His best teammates early on were Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Drew Gooden. Z was just leaving his prime, and Gooden never was anything more than a role player.

Meanwhile, Magic Johnson was drafted by a Championship ready team, where he wasn't the best player, where he was playing with two other Hall of Famers and even more All Stars.

You can ignore the talent surrounding players because it doesn't help your arguments, but it's not an "excuse". It's a fact, and it matters. You can't expect guys to win with nothing...and not everyone wins with equal casts. It's valuable information that can explain success and a lack of success. Kobe didn't win right after Shaq left because he had nothing around him.

Magic was on teams with 3-4 Hall of Famers for the VAST majority of his career. That matters. LeBron has that now, so now he's on equal pegging. It's not an excuse. It's not "imagining". It's the reality. It's unfair to compare players on uneven playing fields :shrug:

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 01:14 PM
It's not similar comparison because even though Bosh is a franchise player, he's not a comparable talent to Magic or Bird.


I agree that Bosh is not close to as talented as the above mentioned players I was just making the comparison as they were all franchise players. Bird,Magic or MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bosh



So being drafted to a ready made contender doesn't count? You're acting as if LeBron actually had the talent to succeed in Cleveland. He carried them way further than they had any business being.

Also doesn't matter, DMC is still the current franchise player for the Sacramento Kings, whether that's by default or whatever measure, I don't really care.


Lebron or Wade didn't have championship talent when they were drafted (though Wade still won a title in his 1st 3 years in the league)... Maybe it's clevelands fault but they pulled some moves to give him talent that even seemed unethical (like trading Big Z for Jamison then getting Big Z back for nothing).

DMC is a great player but he hasn't been able to lead his team to the playoffs... Bosh didn't have the best team either but he was able to lead his team into the post season same with Wade and LBJ who all joined forces. Out of those 3 Wade already won a championship as the leader of his squad then before they were all in there prime (again before they were all in there prime all 3 franchise players they decided to join forces... TOP PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE Wade as a top 3 talent).





My bad, mental lapse. Thought you were comparing the roster support that he had his throughout his entire career to the ones surrounding Kobe and Magic.


Even if you want to make that comparison Kobe pretty much had Kwame Brown and Odom as his supporting cast for a while but no I was not making that comparison.




Think of it like this, in the years he's had adequate roster support he wins the chip 50% while being his usually dominating self. As an individual talent/player I don't think it's ludicrous to say he's better than Magic, he doesn't however have a better career at the moment but I'll say it's pretty attainable for him.



I think Lebron can be comparable to Magic and maybe even surpass him (not in triple doubles though he's got a loooooooooooooooooooong way to go on that). If he does surpass Magic I don't think it would be by much and lets not forget that Magic retired around 30 due to his HIV virus. If he didn't retire (with Aids) I don't even think there would be a debate or this thread created.





Kind of goes against what you just said though.



Why he was drafted by the Lakers and played for them regardless of what words came out his month... Lebron was drafted by his home state... We can pretty much say his home town and he bolted to play with Wade an already crowned NBA champ and Bosh a top 20 player in the league.



So basically he couldn't beat him by himself so he "forced" his way to team up with the greatest C of all time? Sounds about right :)


He can enter the draft whenever he wants... History showed him being drafted by the Lakers and playing his career there until he was unable to (due to HIV and the fear of other players at the time).

Magic never self proclaimed himself "the choosen one", "the king" or put any hype that he's the next big thing he just came in and played. Lebrons story is a little different if you are going to hype yourself up and choose your own nicknames as "THE KING" or "THE CHOOSEN ONE" why do you need to join up with an NBA champion in his prime and Bosh another franchise player?

Magic recieved his nickname didn't have much of an ego and was brutally honest from the quotes you are mentioning. Again though talking basketball if he never retired I don't think this would be much of a debate.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Magic was a winner and leader from day 1, revolutionized the fast break, played all 5 positions as a rookie in the finals,dominated a decade, beat some of the greatest teams ever assembled, and is the greatest pg ever. All while playing for the same team as a never seen before or since 6'9 pg.

It's hard for me to imagine Lebron getting better accomplishments.....

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 01:33 PM
Do you watch him play basketball though? He might love the attention. He might have an ego. He might do that stuff off the court (like most every other star athlete). But as a basketball player he is as selfless as he gets.

Are you blinded by that right now?

Off the court stuff has nothing to do with anything we should be discussing. We're talking about his basketball legacy...not whether or not he likes attention or has an ego.

I'm sure you were on of those guys bashing him whenever he would (make the right) pass late in games/during buzzer beaters. LeBron has never been called a selfish basketball player by anyone he's played with, played for, or even by any respectable analyst.

First of all, I was just answering a question, so chill out man. And yes, I was one of the ones that bashed him for making the "right pass", because at the end of games, the right shot is the shot he makes. But thats just my opinion, Great players dont pass the ball everytime there is a chance to be great. You take matters into your own hands, epscially if your a dominate guy. He's the biggest guy on the court pretty much and yur telling me that he should pass? But thats your opinion, MOST of the world agrees with me.


Isn't this thread about LBJ's career? Not getting how off the court apparell and things said so damn long ago are relevant.....

Because the question was asked, I just answered it....


It's not anything you should ignore though.

He was drafted by the Cavaliers, a lowly franchise with no real history of winning. His best teammates early on were Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Drew Gooden. Z was just leaving his prime, and Gooden never was anything more than a role player.

Meanwhile, Magic Johnson was drafted by a Championship ready team, where he wasn't the best player, where he was playing with two other Hall of Famers and even more All Stars.

You can ignore the talent surrounding players because it doesn't help your arguments, but it's not an "excuse". It's a fact, and it matters. You can't expect guys to win with nothing...and not everyone wins with equal casts. It's valuable information that can explain success and a lack of success. Kobe didn't win right after Shaq left because he had nothing around him.

Magic was on teams with 3-4 Hall of Famers for the VAST majority of his career. That matters. LeBron has that now, so now he's on equal pegging. It's not an excuse. It's not "imagining". It's the reality. It's unfair to compare players on uneven playing fields :shrug:

Yea bro, go ahead and tell me how many hall of famers were on the bulls when Jordan was drafted there? How storied was that franchise? You guys coddle Lebron like he's your only child, making excuses for him and ****. He ran because he wasnt great enough to cut it, and blamed it on the organization. He had enough faith in the Cavs to say "Im not leaving till a bring a tittle to Cleveland". Then he left. Lebron just puts up great numbers, he isnt a great personality at all. No matter what you say. His career will go down as him being an exceptional ball player capable of putting up awesome numbers, but his legacy will not be the same as the true greats of this game. Advanced stats....

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 01:35 PM
Magic was a winner and leader from day 1, revolutionized the fast break, played all 5 positions as a rookie in the finals,dominated a decade, beat some of the greatest teams ever assembled, and is the greatest pg ever. All while playing for the same team as a never seen before or since 6'9 pg.

It's hard for me to imagine Lebron getting better accomplishments.....

And this is what I mean by legacy. All these things Starks mentioned are things that make players great. Lebron has none of these type of "Legendary acts" in his career. None. He just puts up numbers and passes the ball in times when he could have a defining moment...

bucketss
01-10-2013, 01:42 PM
Do you watch him play basketball though? He might love the attention. He might have an ego. He might do that stuff off the court (like most every other star athlete). But as a basketball player he is as selfless as he gets.

Are you blinded by that right now?

Off the court stuff has nothing to do with anything we should be discussing. We're talking about his basketball legacy...not whether or not he likes attention or has an ego.

I'm sure you were on of those guys bashing him whenever he would (make the right) pass late in games/during buzzer beaters. LeBron has never been called a selfish basketball player by anyone he's played with, played for, or even by any respectable analyst.

nick doesn't watch basketball he watches the occasional laker games only if kobe is playing well.. lol

bucketss
01-10-2013, 01:45 PM
And this is what I mean by legacy. All these things Starks mentioned are things that make players great. Lebron has none of these type of "Legendary acts" in his career. None. He just puts up numbers and passes the ball in times when he could have a defining moment...

does kobe?

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 01:47 PM
does kobe?

Are we talking about Kobe or Lebron?

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 01:48 PM
nick doesn't watch basketball he watches the occasional laker games only if kobe is playing well.. lol

Great argument. People here cant rebuttle unless it involves advanced stats.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Are we talking about Kobe or Lebron?

thats what i thought.

tredigs
01-10-2013, 01:54 PM
And this is what I mean by legacy. All these things Starks mentioned are things that make players great. Lebron has none of these type of "Legendary acts" in his career. None. He just puts up numbers and passes the ball in times when he could have a defining moment...

Give me a break guy. Magic's Finals game 6 his rookie year might be the best game ever played given the circumstances, but you could easily make the argument that Lebron has two of the top ten playoff performances in league history (and many analysts do), including game 6 in the eastern finals this past year. That was a win or go home against the battle tested Celtics and to say he "put on a clinic" would be disrespectful to that sheer dominance. 45/15/5 on 19 of 26 shooting, and doing it every way possible against an elite D. Ridiculous.

Then you have 48/9/7 against the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals where he legendarily put up 29 of the last 30 points in double OT for the win. That game won't be forgotten by anyone who saw it.

Both of those games are considered more impressive than any playoff performance Kobe has had, for example.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 01:57 PM
Give me a break guy. Magic's Finals game 6 his rookie year might be the best game ever played given the circumstances, but you could easily make the argument that Lebron has two of the top ten playoff performances in league history (and many analysts do), including game 6 in the eastern finals this past year. That was a win or go home against the battle tested Celtics and to say he "put on a clinic" would be disrespectful to that sheer dominance. 45/15/5 on 19 of 26 shooting, and doing it every way possible against an elite D. Ridiculous.

Then you have 48/9/7 against the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals where he legendarily put up 29 of the last 30 points in double OT for the win. That game won't be forgotten by anyone who saw it.

+1

lebron is one of the most disrespected superstars i have ever seen they don't know that they're watching greatness right now a legend before his prime.

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
+1

lebron is one of the most disrespected superstars i have ever seen they don't know that they're watching greatness right now a legend before his prime.

just disrespected by kobe homers. everyone else recognizes greatness when they see lebron.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 02:07 PM
+1

lebron is one of the most disrespected superstars i have ever seen they don't know that they're watching greatness right now a legend before his prime.
Him being disrespected is true but I can't think of many superstars who praise themselves as much as Lebron either. Even when he was calling himself the king or the choosen one people still liked him when he was fighting for Cleveland...

I guess when he decided to join up with Wade (an already crowned champion) and Bosh another franchise player that he got the huge backlash he did (partially also because he left his hometown fans even after he promised them he wouldn't leave until he brings a championship home).

Also when I say praise themselves aside from "the king" and "the choosen one" he also added in "Not 1, Not 2, Not 3, Not 4, Not 5... etc" This is when he got disrespected as a player and an icon of the league.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:07 PM
Give me a break guy. Magic's Finals game 6 his rookie year might be the best game ever played given the circumstances, but you could easily make the argument that Lebron has two of the top ten playoff performances in league history (and many analysts do), including game 6 in the eastern finals this past year. That was a win or go home against the battle tested Celtics and to say he "put on a clinic" would be disrespectful to that sheer dominance. 45/15/5 on 19 of 26 shooting, and doing it every way possible against an elite D. Ridiculous.

Then you have 48/9/7 against the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals where he legendarily put up 29 of the last 30 points in double OT for the win. That game won't be forgotten by anyone who saw it.

Both of those games are considered more impressive than any playoff performance Kobe has had, for example.

Everyone brings up Kobe for some reason, even when I havent. If you want to say that Lebron is a better playoff performer than Kobe, then fine. Your a hater/homer for that. Lebron last year in that game 6 was one of the best games i've ever seen played in the playoffs. That was ridiculous. But it made me hate Lebron even more because he could do that every game if he wanted to and he would probably cease being the most disrespected athlete as someone put it. Kobe, Kobe, Kobe, Kobe........... Eberyone wamts to talk about Kobe, the 5 time champ... Lets talk about Kobe... He's a chucker right? He raped someone right? He's selfish right? Blah blah blah...

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:10 PM
Him being disrespected is true but I can't think of many superstars who praise themselves as much as Lebron either. Even when he was calling himself the king or the choosen one people still liked him when he was fighting for Cleveland.

I guess when he decided to join up with Wade (an already crowned champion) and Bosh another franchise player that he got the huge backlash he did.

Also when I say praise themselves aside from "the king" and "the choosen one" he also added in "Not 1, Not 2, Not 3, Not 4, Not 5... etc" This is when he got disrespected as a player and an icon of the league.

Dont bother, they will just ignore this or make an excuse for Lebron. It isnt Lebron's fault.. Blah, blah, blah.... I had no problems with Lebron until he joined Wade, A champion and proven winner.. And that wasnt even that big of a deal. It was the whole planning it for two years, then putting the country through the whole "decision" ********. Then predicting how many tittles they would win. Only Lebron homers thinks thats ok and makes him more likable.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:11 PM
Everyone brings up Kobe for some reason, even when I havent. If you want to say that Lebron is a better playoff performer than Kobe, then fine. Your a hater/homer for that. Lebron last year in that game 6 was one of the best games i've ever seen played in the playoffs. That was ridiculous. But it made me hate Lebron even more because he could do that every game if he wanted to and he would probably cease being the most disrespected athlete as someone put it. Kobe, Kobe, Kobe, Kobe........... Eberyone wamts to talk about Kobe, the 5 time champ... Lets talk about Kobe... He's a chucker right? He raped someone right? He's selfish right? Blah blah blah...

the only reason you troll about lebron is because of kobe so i will mention kobe to diffuse you, i don't know why a laker fan a team that has no rivalry with any of lebrons teams gets so pissed when lebron is praised and feels the need to discredit him in each turn.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:12 PM
Dont bother, they will just ignore this or make an excuse for Lebron. It isnt Lebron's fault.. Blah, blah, blah.... I had no problems with Lebron until he joined Wade, A champion and proven winner.. And that wasnt even that big of a deal. It was the whole planning it for two years, then putting the country through the whole "decision" ********. Then predicting how many tittles they would win. Only Lebron homers thinks thats ok and makes him more likable.

the only reason you had a problem was because you knew he would start winning championships you were happy with him in cleveland losing every time in the playoffs.

tredigs
01-10-2013, 02:15 PM
Everyone brings up Kobe for some reason, even when I havent. If you want to say that Lebron is a better playoff performer than Kobe, then fine. Your a hater/homer for that. Lebron last year in that game 6 was one of the best games i've ever seen played in the playoffs. That was ridiculous. But it made me hate Lebron even more because he could do that every game if he wanted to and he would probably cease being the most disrespected athlete as someone put it. Kobe, Kobe, Kobe, Kobe........... Eberyone wamts to talk about Kobe, the 5 time champ... Lets talk about Kobe... He's a chucker right? He raped someone right? He's selfish right? Blah blah blah...

Yet you just got finished saying that "Lebon has NO legendary performances like that". I bring Kobe up for the sheer fact that you're a huge Kobe fan, clearly consider him a top 10 player ever, and yet if I asked you to come up with 2 matching games in his entire playoff career (the only time it truly matters as far as legacies are concerned), then you could not do it. And that's in about double the career for a guy many consider top 10 all time. Lebron is still building his legacy on a contender and will likely have many more dominant playoff performances (I love how easy you think it is for him to put up a top ten game in NBA history and you are actually mad he doesn't do it every night, by the way).

Get the point I'm making ... at all?

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:16 PM
Him being disrespected is true but I can't think of many superstars who praise themselves as much as Lebron either. Even when he was calling himself the king or the choosen one people still liked him when he was fighting for Cleveland...

I guess when he decided to join up with Wade (an already crowned champion) and Bosh another franchise player that he got the huge backlash he did (partially also because he left his hometown fans even after he promised them he wouldn't leave until he brings a championship home).

Also when I say praise themselves aside from "the king" and "the choosen one" he also added in "Not 1, Not 2, Not 3, Not 4, Not 5... etc" This is when he got disrespected as a player and an icon of the league.

only started rooting for lebron after he lost in the 2011 playoffs and everyone decided to discredit him and treat him as if he was some role player. past two years if you noticed he hasn't been doing any dancing,he doesn't mock or disrespect the game like he use to he got serious and won a championship he won my respect.

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:18 PM
only started rooting for lebron after he lost in the 2011 playoffs and everyone decided to discredit him and treat him as if he was some role player. past two years if you noticed he hasn't been doing any dancing,he doesn't mock or disrespect the game like he use to he got serious and won a championship he won my respect.

no one treated him like a role player, he played like a role player in the 2011 finals.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 02:22 PM
only started rooting for lebron after he lost in the 2011 playoffs and everyone decided to discredit him and treat him as if he was some role player. past two years if you noticed he hasn't been doing any dancing,he doesn't mock or disrespect the game like he use to he got serious and won a championship he won my respect.
This is the only thing I can remember about him in the 2011 finals....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoOXKha7uL4

Him and Wade lost my respect after that....

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 02:22 PM
I agree that Bosh is not close to as talented as the above mentioned players I was just making the comparison as they were all franchise players. Bird,Magic or MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bosh

If you want to make a better comparison pick a different player to compare Bosh to than Magic or Bird is all I'm sayin. Like Larry Nance or something.


Lebron or Wade didn't have championship talent when they were drafted (though Wade still won a title in his 1st 3 years in the league)... Maybe it's clevelands fault but they pulled some moves to give him talent that even seemed unethical (like trading Big Z for Jamison then getting Big Z back for nothing).

Maybe? Clevelands kind of a notoriously bad front office. It's easy to pick the no-brainer prospects like Kyrie and LeBron, but look no further than what transpired in the 2012 draft, "with the 4th pick The Cleveland Cavaliers select Dion Waiters" :facepalm: the kid may turn out great, but its was and currently is a HORRIBLE decision. (no pun intended)


DMC is a great player but he hasn't been able to lead his team to the playoffs...

But players like Cousins are the reason why you should actually compare value/talent/production rather than "just" comparing franchise players.


Bosh didn't have the best team either but he was able to lead his team into the post season same with Wade and LBJ who all joined forces. Out of those 3 Wade already won a championship as the leader of his squad then before they were all in there prime (again before they were all in there prime all 3 franchise players they decided to join forces... TOP PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE Wade as a top 3 talent).

What's the purpose of this section here?


Even if you want to make that comparison Kobe pretty much had Kwame Brown and Odom as his supporting cast for a while but no I was not making that comparison.


He's had championship/contender help around him most of his carrer. And that same Lamar would be the best teammate LeBron would EVER have while he was in Cleveland.


I think Lebron can be comparable to Magic and maybe even surpass him (not in triple doubles though he's got a loooooooooooooooooooong way to go on that). If he does surpass Magic I don't think it would be by much and lets not forget that Magic retired around 30 due to his HIV virus. If he didn't retire (with Aids) I don't even think there would be a debate or this thread created.


Depends no who you talk to, I know a ton of people who believe that the mystique that surrounds Magic is in part due to his relatively short career. Difference of opinion I guess. :shrug:


Why he was drafted by the Lakers and played for them regardless of what words came out his month... Lebron was drafted by his home state... We can pretty much say his home town and he bolted to play with Wade an already crowned NBA champ and Bosh a top 20 player in the league.

But he took the "easy" out.


He can enter the draft whenever he wants... History showed him being drafted by the Lakers and playing his career there until he was unable to (due to HIV and the fear of other players at the time).

Magic never self proclaimed himself "the choosen one", "the king" or put any hype that he's the next big thing he just came in and played. Lebrons story is a little different if you are going to hype yourself up and choose your own nicknames as "THE KING" or "THE CHOOSEN ONE" why do you need to join up with an NBA champion in his prime and Bosh another franchise player?

Because there is more than one way to skin a cat.


Magic recieved his nickname didn't have much of an ego and was brutally honest from the quotes you are mentioning. Again though talking basketball if he never retired I don't think this would be much of a debate.

Kobe called himself the "Black Mamba" don't see me gettin my panties in a bunch over it. But seriously you know a guy is good when his nickname is one of your strongest points to attach

ManRam
01-10-2013, 02:24 PM
First of all, I was just answering a question, so chill out man. And yes, I was one of the ones that bashed him for making the "right pass", because at the end of games, the right shot is the shot he makes. But thats just my opinion, Great players dont pass the ball everytime there is a chance to be great. You take matters into your own hands, epscially if your a dominate guy. He's the biggest guy on the court pretty much and yur telling me that he should pass? But thats your opinion, MOST of the world agrees with me.



Kobe not passing the ball and taking a horrible and heavily contested shot is something you enjoy seeing? If there's an open man in the corner...get it to him.


Because the question was asked, I just answered it....


Well your answer sucked.


Yea bro, go ahead and tell me how many hall of famers were on the bulls when Jordan was drafted there? How storied was that franchise? You guys coddle Lebron like he's your only child, making excuses for him and ****. He ran because he wasnt great enough to cut it, and blamed it on the organization. He had enough faith in the Cavs to say "Im not leaving till a bring a tittle to Cleveland". Then he left. Lebron just puts up great numbers, he isnt a great personality at all. No matter what you say. His career will go down as him being an exceptional ball player capable of putting up awesome numbers, but his legacy will not be the same as the true greats of this game. Advanced stats....

No. Chicago wasn't a "storied" franchise when Jordan got there. But still, acting like the help Jordan got while in Chicago was at all similar to the help LeBron got while in Cleveland is a joke. That's all I'm saying.

Not every situation and circumstance is the same, and you pretend it is. My only point.

He left to go play with other all-stars, something he rarely/never had the chance to do in Cleveland. If you call that an excuse, fine. I call it reality and a wise business choice. He never played with a top 20-30 player in the NBA while in Cleveland. That's a fact. He wasn't granted the opportunity many of the all time greats got early in their careers.

Again, call it an excuse...I call it a justifiable and noteworthy fact.

Jordan never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Kobe never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Magic never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Bird never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Duncan never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland.

Therefore, you demanding LeBron to win in Cleveland is demanding the unprecedented. You therefore are insinuating that he's the best ever. You think LBJ is the best ever?!?!



So, do you get it?


Probably not, because you're a hypocrite with a low capacity to understand the obvious.


The only reason I give you the time of day, Nicki, is because I feel bad for you. It's fun destroying arguments. I get a high from it. So thank you for being so incredibly ridiculous, hypocritical and biased!

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:25 PM
no one treated him like a role player, he played like a role player in the 2011 finals.

he did but people were saying some ******** stuff even into the next season maybe he deserved it probably why it became so fun for me to root for him. that and i always been a laker hater and i noticed how angry their fans become when lebron is successful lol.

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:27 PM
he did but people were saying some ******** stuff even into the next season maybe he deserved it probably why it became so fun for me to root for him. that and i always been a laker hater and i noticed how angry their fans become when lebron is successful lol.

because they are insecure that Lebron will be greater than Kobe once it's all said and done. Heck Lebron is already better than Kobe ever was. 09 Lebron was already better than Kobe ever was.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:28 PM
the only reason you troll about lebron is because of kobe so i will mention kobe to diffuse you, i don't know why a laker fan a team that has no rivalry with any of lebrons teams gets so pissed when lebron is praised and feels the need to discredit him in each turn.

Dumb argument on your part. Lets see if you can do better than trying to do some little schoolyard antagonizing....


the only reason you had a problem was because you knew he would start winning championships you were happy with him in cleveland losing every time in the playoffs.

Nope, you clearly cant do any better...


Yet you just got finished saying that "Lebon has NO legendary performances like that". I bring Kobe up for the sheer fact that you're a huge Kobe fan, clearly consider him a top 10 player ever, and yet if I asked you to come up with 2 matching games in his entire playoff career (the only time it truly matters as far as legacies are concerned), then you could not do it. And that's in about double the career for a guy many consider top 10 all time. Lebron is still building his legacy on a contender and will likely have many more dominant playoff performances (I love how easy you think it is for him to put up a top ten game in NBA history and you are actually mad he doesn't do it every night, by the way).

Get the point I'm making ... at all?

I'm a huge fan of a lot of players. Duncan, Love, Rose, Melo, etc. Bring one of them up. The only reason I DEFEND Kobe is because:

A.) He plays for my favorite team and is a main reason why I've seen them win 5 of the 10 ive watched the Lakers win.

B.) He gets disrespected far more than Lebron and he actually has hardware and accolades to show, not potential.

I'm not the only person who considers Kobe a top ten player. Only trolls and Lebron fans don't. It's also flat out ridiculous to say that Kobe doesn't have 2 great games in the playoffs. You want to say "matching" because Lebron had more complete games (Stat wise) than Kobe. Lebron puts up the best stats I've ever seen across the board. So that back ended attempt to try to prove some point is failed on your part. Lebron was also on a "contender" in Cleveland. How the hell can you have the best record in the league and not be considered a contender? You were probably one of the people who picked Cleveland to win and pointed out how great the team was. Just stop man.

cheesypacker
01-10-2013, 02:28 PM
Either way i am still a magic fan. they can try to play like him all the want. it still not the same

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:29 PM
because they are insecure that Lebron will be greater than Kobe once it's all said and done. Heck Lebron is already better than Kobe ever was. 09 Lebron was already better than Kobe ever was.

Stat wise, yes. Overall game wise, no. Get the penis out your mouth

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:29 PM
Stat wise, yes. Overall game wise, no. Get the penis out your mouth

what do you mean "overall game wise"? Lebron has a better overall game than Kobe.

ManRam
01-10-2013, 02:33 PM
Stat wise, yes. Overall game wise, no. Get the penis out your mouth

"Overall game wise"? What does that mean?

LeBron's a more efficient scorer, a better passer, a better rebounder, a better defender, a more versatile defender, a more versatile offensive player, and so on. He statistically shoots better in the clutch (despite the narrative). His playoff numbers are better than Kobe's playoff numbers.

And so on.

You ignore advanced stats ONLY because they don't tell the story you WANT them to.

I mean, LeBron's career WS/48 are better than Kobe's single best season. :laugh2: His career eFG% is better than Kobe's single best season.

I don't blame you for discrediting them with no reason at all...


EDIT: Got sidetracked...Lakers fans getting me sucked into the Kobe debate. Just trying to illustrate the magnitude of LeBron's game.

Chronz
01-10-2013, 02:33 PM
I agree that Bosh is not close to as talented as the above mentioned players I was just making the comparison as they were all franchise players. Bird,Magic or MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bosh

But all your doing is exposing how little such a title reveals about a player so why would it carry any weight?

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 02:34 PM
Stat wise, yes. Overall game wise, no. Get the penis out your mouth

what do you mean overall game wise?

He's talkin out of his *** again.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 02:34 PM
If you want to make a better comparison pick a different player to compare Bosh to than Magic or Bird is all I'm sayin. Like Larry Nance or something.



Maybe? Clevelands kind of a notoriously bad front office. It's easy to pick the no-brainer prospects like Kyrie and LeBron, but look no further than what transpired in the 2012 draft, "with the 4th pick The Cleveland Cavaliers select Dion Waiters" :facepalm: the kid may turn out great, but its was and currently is a HORRIBLE decision. (no pun intended)



But players like Cousins are the reason why you should actually compare value/talent/production rather than "just" comparing franchise players.



What's the purpose of this section here?



He's had championship/contender help around him most of his carrer. And that same Lamar would be the best teammate LeBron would EVER have while he was in Cleveland.



Depends no who you talk to, I know a ton of people who believe that the mystique that surrounds Magic is in part due to his relatively short career. Difference of opinion I guess. :shrug:



But he took the "easy" out.



Because there is more than one way to skin a cat.



Kobe called himself the "Black Mamba" don't see me gettin my panties in a bunch over it. But seriously you know a guy is good when his nickname is one of your strongest points to attach
I might have to continue the debate another time but I'll say it was a good debate!

I mentioned in my last few posts a few reasons for my dislike of Lebron... I'm not saying he's not a great player because he is but there is somethings I think he lacks compared to other superstars like a killer instinct (Wade has this you can see it in his eyes at times)

See below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ke1yEEre_g

Lebron doesn't have this and the fact that he joined Wade after praising himself tarnishes his legacy to me in a way. He has all the tools and talent just not that killer instinct for me to include him in conversations with Magic, Bird, Jordan... etc.

Just my opinion because we will go back and forth on this all day.

Well have to agree to disagree ;)

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:35 PM
Stat wise, yes. Overall game wise, no. Get the penis out your mouth

thats why you and amo1ser are in every lebron thread? do you see me in kobe threads? nope.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 02:37 PM
[QUOTE=ghettosean;25043486]I agree that Bosh is not close to as talented as the above mentioned players I was just making the comparison as they were all franchise players. Bird,Magic or MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bosh
[QUOTE]
But all your doing is exposing how little such a title reveals about a player so why would it carry any weight?
Never mentioned one thing about a title so I'm not sure what you are talking about???

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:38 PM
advanced stats or not, Lebron is the better overall player than Kobe ever was. Even by regular stats he's far superior regular season or playoffs. Legacy wise he needs a championship or 2 more to surpass Kobe, but everyone except Kobe homers know that Lebron is the far superior player already, has been since 2007 or so.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:39 PM
I might have to continue the debate another time but I'll say it was a good debate!

I mentioned in my last few posts a few reasons for my dislike of Lebron... I'm not saying he's not a great player because he is but there is somethings I think he lacks compared to other superstars like a killer instinct (Wade has this you can see it in his eyes at times)

See below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ke1yEEre_g

Lebron doesn't have this and the fact that he joined Wade after praising himself tarnishes his legacy to me in a way. He has all the tools and talent just not that killer instinct for me to include him in conversations with Magic, Bird, Jordan... etc.

Just my opinion because we will go back and forth on this all day.

Well have to agree to disagree ;)

he proved his killer instinct last playoffs wait I'll show you..

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSB008-xQQ0YvkeWoKGmogdB02-vGE8TTacRW_JfQx1Glec7rasgqCcCfJPQQ

can you see it in his eyes?

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 02:42 PM
he proved his killer instinct last playoffs wait I'll show you..

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSB008-xQQ0YvkeWoKGmogdB02-vGE8TTacRW_JfQx1Glec7rasgqCcCfJPQQ

can you see it in his eyes?
LOL... Nope...

Wade willed his team to win in the example I showed after they were getting slaughtered. All it took was one dirty play and he turned into something unreal and willed his team to victory. Lebron just doesn't have this gene.

Nice pic though.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:42 PM
Kobe not passing the ball and taking a horrible and heavily contested shot is something you enjoy seeing? If there's an open man in the corner...get it to him.

Kobe leading his team to multiple championships is the outcome of that, so yes i do. Whos your favorite team?


Well your answer sucked.

:(


No. Chicago wasn't a "storied" franchise when Jordan got there. But still, acting like the help Jordan got while in Chicago was at all similar to the help LeBron got while in Cleveland is a joke. That's all I'm saying.

The help? You mean Pippen? Because everyone else were just role players, much like the team Lebron had. Another All-star player and role players. Much like Dirk had in Dallas. Much like most teams have that win nowadays.


Not every situation and circumstance is the same, and you pretend it is. My only point.

NO


He left to go play with other all-stars, something he rarely/never had the chance to do in Cleveland. If you call that an excuse, fine. I call it reality and a wise business choice. He never played with a top 20-30 player in the NBA while in Cleveland. That's a fact. He wasn't granted the opportunity many of the all time greats got early in their careers.

Mo willams was a top ten guard. Well now no one will admit that because it goes against the Lebron love. But he was. Who was the top 20-30 player that Dirk played with? The pistons won with all role players.


Again, call it an excuse...I call it a justifiable and noteworthy fact.

Jordan never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Kobe never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Magic never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Bird never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland. Duncan never won with as little as LBJ had in Cleveland.

Therefore, you demanding LeBron to win in Cleveland is demanding the unprecedented. You therefore are insinuating that he's the best ever. You think LBJ is the best ever?!?!

No, you people say that, not level headed fans. I just want you to prove it beyond advanced stats.




So, do you get it?


Probably not, because you're a hypocrite with a low capacity to understand the obvious.

I went to the University of Pennsylvania, what about you?



The only reason I give you the time of day, Nicki, is because I feel bad for you. It's fun destroying arguments. I get a high from it. So thank you for being so incredibly ridiculous, hypocritical and biased!

Arrogant/Narcissistic people usually give these sorts of answers. They think they are right about everything when they are not. Especially in a discussion where there is not clear answer and is based mostly on judgment.

el hidalgo
01-10-2013, 02:48 PM
nickdymez has convinced me. kobe > lebron. iv been blind to it all along, but he finally opened my eyes with that compelling argument!

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:52 PM
"Overall game wise"? What does that mean?

LeBron's a more efficient scorer, a better passer, a better rebounder, a better defender, a more versatile defender, a more versatile offensive player, and so on. He statistically shoots better in the clutch (despite the narrative). His playoff numbers are better than Kobe's playoff numbers.

And so on.

You ignore advanced stats ONLY because they don't tell the story you WANT them to.

I mean, LeBron's career WS/48 are better than Kobe's single best season. :laugh2: His career eFG% is better than Kobe's single best season.

I don't blame you for discrediting them with no reason at all...


EDIT: Got sidetracked...Lakers fans getting me sucked into the Kobe debate. Just trying to illustrate the magnitude of LeBron's game.

All these are based on numbers, which again I will always give that to Lebron. But if you want to say that Lebron has a better shot than Kobe, thats on you.. lmao.. I will give him passer and rebounder. Rebounding is even iffy because Lebron is 6-9, 280. He has like 3 inches and 100 pounds on Kobe. He probably is faster than Kobe too.. Lebron is only "statiscally" more clutch because he runs from those moments. But go ahead, I cant argue numbers when it comes to these two. I just watch them play and come to my conclusion. Lebron is more fundamentaly sound than Kobe? Thats so laughable to me.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:53 PM
nickdymez has convinced me. kobe > lebron. iv been blind to it all along, but he finally opened my eyes with that compelling argument!

Quiet Troll.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 02:54 PM
because they are insecure that Lebron will be greater than Kobe once it's all said and done. Heck Lebron is already better than Kobe ever was. 09 Lebron was already better than Kobe ever was.

I will be insecure once Lebron Wins his 3rd ring. Until then i think most Laker/Kobe fans are pretty safe...

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:55 PM
All these are based on numbers, which again I will always give that to Lebron. But if you want to say that Lebron has a better shot than Kobe, thats on you.. lmao.. I will give him passer and rebounder. Rebounding is even iffy because Lebron is 6-9, 280. He has like 3 inches and 100 pounds on Kobe. He probably is faster than Kobe too.. Lebron is only "statiscally" more clutch because he runs from those moments. But go ahead, I cant argue numbers when it comes to these two. I just watch them play and come to my conclusion. Lebron is more fundamentaly sound than Kobe? Thats so laughable to me.

hes probably faster lol?

el hidalgo
01-10-2013, 02:55 PM
All these are based on numbers, which again I will always give that to Lebron. But if you want to say that Lebron has a better shot than Kobe, thats on you.. lmao.. I will give him passer and rebounder. Rebounding is even iffy because Lebron is 6-9, 280. He has like 3 inches and 100 pounds on Kobe. He probably is faster than Kobe too.. Lebron is only "statiscally" more clutch because he runs from those moments. But go ahead, I cant argue numbers when it comes to these two. I just watch them play and come to my conclusion. Lebron is more fundamentaly sound than Kobe? Thats so laughable to me.

which is heavily affected by bias. but you can't see that i'm sure.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 02:57 PM
I will be insecure once Lebron Wins his 3rd ring. Until then i think most Laker/Kobe fans are pretty safe...

3 isn't far away lol and why would laker' fans be insecure? lmao you're sick man i almost dropped my coke when you said we're safe haahah.

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:58 PM
All these are based on numbers, which again I will always give that to Lebron. But if you want to say that Lebron has a better shot than Kobe, thats on you.. lmao.. I will give him passer and rebounder. Rebounding is even iffy because Lebron is 6-9, 280. He has like 3 inches and 100 pounds on Kobe. He probably is faster than Kobe too.. Lebron is only "statiscally" more clutch because he runs from those moments. But go ahead, I cant argue numbers when it comes to these two. I just watch them play and come to my conclusion. Lebron is more fundamentaly sound than Kobe? Thats so laughable to me.

lebron's offensive game is alot more efficient. he's not more fundamentally sound than Kobe, but he's still a better overall player. Besides the 5 rings argument, which shouldn't even be a justification for who's a better individual player, I don't see anything else helping Kobe.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 03:00 PM
3 isn't far away lol and why would laker' fans be insecure? lmao you're sick man i almost dropped my coke when you said we're safe haahah.

He's been three times already and failed twice miserably... Keep hope alive

ManRam
01-10-2013, 03:00 PM
Kobe leading his team to multiple championships is the outcome of that, so yes i do. Whos your favorite team?


:(


The help? You mean Pippen? Because everyone else were just role players, much like the team Lebron had. Another All-star player and role players. Much like Dirk had in Dallas. Much like most teams have that win nowadays.


NO

Mo willams was a top ten guard. Well now no one will admit that because it goes against the Lebron love. But he was. Who was the top 20-30 player that Dirk played with? The pistons won with all role players.


No, you people say that, not level headed fans. I just want you to prove it beyond advanced stats.


I went to the University of Pennsylvania, what about you?

Arrogant/Narcissistic people usually give these sorts of answers. They think they are right about everything when they are not. Especially in a discussion where there is not clear answer and is based mostly on judgment.

I can be quietly arrogant, but far from narcissistic! I'm a nice guy, I swear!

I'll play nice.

Yes, Dirk and the Pistons won with well-balanced teams. (Chandler was a top 30 player easy that year, BTW). But we're comparing LeBron to the all-time greats, and my point stands. None of them, to my knowledge and estimation, won with a lesser cast than what LeBron had.

If LeBron was playing poorly in his playoff career it might be one thing, but besides 2 series, out of what...like 20-25...he's been as good as just about anyone ever. I know you hate advanced stats...and I know why...but he's 3rd all time in playoff PER and playoff win shares/48. That says SOMETHING.

And example of why you can't assume a playoff loss = an individual letdown:

I've never seen a player play as amazing basketball in the playoffs as he did in 2009...and his team lost! How could it be!?!?! Even if you don't want to look at the advanced stats (which are mind-boggling), he scored more points per game (35.29) than Kobe or Magic ever got close to in their playoff careers. We might never see another 35/9/7 playoff run ever again...especially on 51% shooting. It was remarkable. He even averaged a playoff low in TOs that season. How can you possibly fault a guy who played that unbelievably well for not winning. What more could have he done? If you say "hit a game winner", well, he did...I almost cried when he did. Luckily my team couldn't miss three pointers so we cruised. It was a tremendous three point shooting exposition. There was nothing he can do.

Am I making excuses again? I don't know. It's the reality though. Nothing I am saying is wrong. I'm not relying on just stats, and I'm not relying just on my biased opinions.

You just can't treat every scenario the same.

ManRam
01-10-2013, 03:03 PM
All these are based on numbers, which again I will always give that to Lebron. But if you want to say that Lebron has a better shot than Kobe, thats on you.. lmao.. I will give him passer and rebounder. Rebounding is even iffy because Lebron is 6-9, 280. He has like 3 inches and 100 pounds on Kobe. He probably is faster than Kobe too.. Lebron is only "statiscally" more clutch because he runs from those moments. But go ahead, I cant argue numbers when it comes to these two. I just watch them play and come to my conclusion. Lebron is more fundamentaly sound than Kobe? Thats so laughable to me.

I don't need numbers to illustrate how LeBron is a better passer, rebounder and defender.

You don't need to see FG%, eFG%, or TS% to see how LeBron is more efficient.

"Statistically more clutch" is the only way to look at it. Shots made in the clutch/Shots attempted in the clutch. How's there a better gauge? Kobe has hit a ton of huge shots, but he's missed far more. LeBron hasn't taken nearly as many, but for their careers, he'll make a higher percentage. Is that not "more clutch". He's also statistically a better 4th quarter player. Yes, I said the "s-word", but you can't completely write it off.

Is he more fundamentally sound than Kobe? HELL NO.

I don't care how you dominate though, I just care that you do. Whether you get by on 100% skill, a 100% athleticism or a combination, all that matters are the results.

Being great because you're super athletic is nothing to knock a guy for. Again, it doesn't matter how you do it...it just matters that it gets done. I don't care why or how someone achieves success, all that matters is that it is achieved.

Money_23
01-10-2013, 03:05 PM
I will be insecure once Lebron Wins his 3rd ring. Until then i think most Laker/Kobe fans are pretty safe...

he'll surpass Kobe on the all-time list once he wins his 2nd rings with a fmvp.

here's what their comparison will look like:

Lebron:
3 MVP
2 FMVP
2 championship
career RS avg: 28-7-7
career PS AVG: 29-9-7


Kobe:
1 MVP
2 FMVP
5 championshiip
career RS avg: 26-5-5
career PS avg: 26-5-5



Lebron has far superior stats plus everything else except ring counts and tied for FMVP. I think he'll safely pass Kobe if he wins his 2nd this year.

mngopher35
01-10-2013, 03:07 PM
So Mo Williams is a comparable sidekick is as good as pippen and we cant use stats because its better to judge a player based off the look in their eyes? Haha it is pretty funny reading through even this last page of the thread, it got a little off track I see.

I think Lebron has a chance to have as good of a career as Magic, but we will have to wait and see how these next 7 years or so play out. He needs to have a few more dominate years, but it is possible because of longevity. They have had much different situations and supporting casts so Magic is currently ahead in the rings argument, but Lebron has time to get another one or a few more.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 03:08 PM
He's been three times already and failed twice miserably... Keep hope alive

i bet you were popping bottles when he lost those 2 times huh laker* fan.

Chronz
01-10-2013, 03:09 PM
Never mentioned one thing about a title so I'm not sure what you are talking about???
Title has more than 1 meaning.

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 03:17 PM
Title has more than 1 meaning.
That makes what you are saying very clear?!?

Anyone else understand this statement???

Chronz
01-10-2013, 03:18 PM
That makes what you are saying very clear?!?

Anyone else understand this statement???

The title you bestowed is the title of a "FRANCHISE PLAYER".

ghettosean
01-10-2013, 03:24 PM
The title you bestowed is the title of a "FRANCHISE PLAYER".
Ok.... I'll try and keep my descriptions as a top 15 - 20 player in the league for Chris Bosh instead of labeling him as a franchise player which he was called in Toronto.

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 03:54 PM
i bet you were popping bottles when he lost those 2 times huh laker* fan.

No. Didnt want Dallas to win because i hated that they eliminated my team. Though there was no way they could beat the Heat. But once I saw Lebron put up 8 points in a finals game, all i could do was. :facepalm:

nickdymez
01-10-2013, 03:56 PM
I can be quietly arrogant, but far from narcissistic! I'm a nice guy, I swear!

I'll play nice.

Yes, Dirk and the Pistons won with well-balanced teams. (Chandler was a top 30 player easy that year, BTW). But we're comparing LeBron to the all-time greats, and my point stands. None of them, to my knowledge and estimation, won with a lesser cast than what LeBron had.

If LeBron was playing poorly in his playoff career it might be one thing, but besides 2 series, out of what...like 20-25...he's been as good as just about anyone ever. I know you hate advanced stats...and I know why...but he's 3rd all time in playoff PER and playoff win shares/48. That says SOMETHING.

And example of why you can't assume a playoff loss = an individual letdown:

I've never seen a player play as amazing basketball in the playoffs as he did in 2009...and his team lost! How could it be!?!?! Even if you don't want to look at the advanced stats (which are mind-boggling), he scored more points per game (35.29) than Kobe or Magic ever got close to in their playoff careers. We might never see another 35/9/7 playoff run ever again...especially on 51% shooting. It was remarkable. He even averaged a playoff low in TOs that season. How can you possibly fault a guy who played that unbelievably well for not winning. What more could have he done? If you say "hit a game winner", well, he did...I almost cried when he did. Luckily my team couldn't miss three pointers so we cruised. It was a tremendous three point shooting exposition. There was nothing he can do.

Am I making excuses again? I don't know. It's the reality though. Nothing I am saying is wrong. I'm not relying on just stats, and I'm not relying just on my biased opinions.

You just can't treat every scenario the same.


I don't need numbers to illustrate how LeBron is a better passer, rebounder and defender.

You don't need to see FG%, eFG%, or TS% to see how LeBron is more efficient.

"Statistically more clutch" is the only way to look at it. Shots made in the clutch/Shots attempted in the clutch. How's there a better gauge? Kobe has hit a ton of huge shots, but he's missed far more. LeBron hasn't taken nearly as many, but for their careers, he'll make a higher percentage. Is that not "more clutch". He's also statistically a better 4th quarter player. Yes, I said the "s-word", but you can't completely write it off.

Is he more fundamentally sound than Kobe? HELL NO.

I don't care how you dominate though, I just care that you do. Whether you get by on 100% skill, a 100% athleticism or a combination, all that matters are the results.

Being great because you're super athletic is nothing to knock a guy for. Again, it doesn't matter how you do it...it just matters that it gets done. I don't care why or how someone achieves success, all that matters is that it is achieved.

Im not trying to dismiss you or run from an argument. These are really good posts and i understand where your coming from, I just dont really agree and its obvious that we have two different ideas on what makes a player great. Nothing wrong with that at all.. Again, great posts...

el hidalgo
01-10-2013, 04:56 PM
i bet you were popping bottles when he lost those 2 times huh laker* fan.

i found it comical that most lakers fans were cheering for the celtics because they were playing the heat in the playoffs. cheering for your biggest rivals because the hate for lebron is that strong.

el hidalgo
01-10-2013, 04:59 PM
Im not trying to dismiss you or run from an argument. These are really good posts and i understand where your coming from, I just dont have any argument, and i want to keep believing that lebron is not a great basketball player. Again, great posts...

fixed

b@llhog24
01-10-2013, 05:10 PM
I might have to continue the debate another time but I'll say it was a good debate!

:cheers:


I mentioned in my last few posts a few reasons for my dislike of Lebron... I'm not saying he's not a great player because he is but there is somethings I think he lacks compared to other superstars like a killer instinct (Wade has this you can see it in his eyes at times)

See below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ke1yEEre_g

You're allowed to dislike whoever you want, and I wouldn't really call myself a "LeBron fan" but I'm closer to being one than disliking him.

Also what about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml8wD7e0-wE

or the short version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30b8RM4XqNI


Lebron doesn't have this and the fact that he joined Wade after praising himself tarnishes his legacy to me in a way. He has all the tools and talent just not that killer instinct for me to include him in conversations with Magic, Bird, Jordan... etc.

Just my opinion because we will go back and forth on this all day.

Well have to agree to disagree ;)

Eh I was bored, I have all those guys ahead of him comfortably at the moment as well.


Ok.... I'll try and keep my descriptions as a top 15 - 20 player in the league for Chris Bosh instead of labeling him as a franchise player which he was called in Toronto.

The term "franchise player" is somewhat of a blanket statement seeing that Bosh is one, and Magic/Bird are franchise players as well. It's fairly vague and needs/should have an agreed to definition in order for a real debate to form.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 07:31 PM
i found it comical that most lakers fans were cheering for the celtics because they were playing the heat in the playoffs. cheering for your biggest rivals because the hate for lebron is that strong.


I don't dislike the Heat but I wanted the Celtics to win just to have the satisfaction of seeing them get manhandled by OKC.........


Laker fans could care less about the Heat, they've never been a rival.

BULLSFAN0810
01-11-2013, 12:38 AM
Let me end this debate .

Magic is much better than James. Reason why. Check this logic out.

James is physically better than Magic, but magic was SMART enough to understand every night was a mismatch, so he posted smaller players ALL THE TIME. James has the same advantages, and he barely started to do them. You guys see James in all his physical might and you guys don't see he can't use it correctly, whereas Magic isn't as fast, isn't a jumper, but yet he posted, and grabbed just as many rebounds. James isn't smart or better, the games starts in your head first, and james compared to Magic is just talk. James just found out what he can do outside of puting his head down and attacking. Magic controlled the tempo in the post, in which he would post actually dribbling up court, and 3 point in. James as physical as he is, he isn't mentally as smart as Magic; and imho that's the diffrence. And Magic resume is hard to top... WON AT ALL LEVELS.

BULLSFAN0810
01-11-2013, 12:48 AM
Let me end this debate .

Magic is much better than James. Reason why. Check this logic out.

James is physically better than Magic, but magic was SMART enough to understand every might was a mismatch, so he posted smaller players ALL THE TIME. James has the same advantages, and he barely started to do them. You guys see James in all his physical might and you guys don't see he can't use it correctly, whereas Magic isn't as fast, isn't a jumper, but yet he posted, and grabbed just as many rebounds. James isn't smart or brr the games stats in your head first, and james compared to Magic is just talk. James just found out what her can do outside off puting his head down and attacking. Magic controlled the tempo in the post, in which he would post actually dribbling up court, and 3 point in. James as physical as he is, he isn'tmentally as smart.

el hidalgo
01-11-2013, 02:51 AM
Let me end this debate .

Magic is much better than James. Reason why. Check this logic out.

James is physically better than Magic, but magic was SMART enough to understand every might was a mismatch, so he posted smaller players ALL THE TIME. James has the same advantages, and he barely started to do them. You guys see James in all his physical might and you guys don't see he can't use it correctly, whereas Magic isn't as fast, isn't a jumper, but yet he posted, and grabbed just as many rebounds. James isn't smart or brr the games stats in your head first, and james compared to Magic is just talk. James just found out what her can do outside off puting his head down and attacking. Magic controlled the tempo in the post, in which he would post actually dribbling up court, and 3 point in. James as physical as he is, he isn'tmentally as smart.

can you prove any of this with stats or is it just that NBA superfan intuition telling you "wow, this guy is simply great" when you watch him play?

JordansBulls
01-14-2013, 06:33 PM
can you prove any of this with stats or is it just that NBA superfan intuition telling you "wow, this guy is simply great" when you watch him play?

stats will tell you that Wilt was better than Russell or that Shaq was better than Hakeem or that K.Malone was better than Duncan.

bucketss
01-14-2013, 06:37 PM
stats will tell you that Wilt was better than Russell or that Shaq was better than Hakeem or that K.Malone was better than Duncan.

is it bad to say malone is better than duncan? malone was just unfortunate to play in the same era as the greatest.

nickdymez
01-14-2013, 08:05 PM
is it bad to say malone is better than duncan? malone was just unfortunate to play in the same era as the greatest.

Yes

nickdymez
01-14-2013, 08:07 PM
can you prove any of this with stats or is it just that NBA superfan intuition telling you "wow, this guy is simply great" when you watch him play?

You can tell a guy who doesn't know anything about basketball, the only argument he has is stats :facepalm:

b@llhog24
01-14-2013, 08:19 PM
No seriously why is JB allowed to constantly bums threads? Former mod immunity or something?

b@llhog24
01-14-2013, 08:21 PM
can you prove any of this with stats or is it just that NBA superfan intuition telling you "wow, this guy is simply great" when you watch him play?

stats will tell you that Wilt was better than Russell or that Shaq was better than Hakeem or that K.Malone was better than Duncan.

Well anybody with half a brain knows that Duncan is one of the best two way players ever. Also which stats are you lookin at to say Malone is better?

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SirSkyHook
01-14-2013, 09:17 PM
Because Magic is my favorite player i try to stay away from threads like these but i will say this. If Lebron can't take this current cast to 9 nba finals winning 5 and get multiple final MVP's he shouldn't even be in the discussion.

The reason i say with this cast is because people like to argue he had a crap team in Cleveland, i say he plays in a weaker conference but whatever. Now he has a superior team to most, so there's no more excuses.

We will see who he is, and if he finishes his career with only the lockout ring, he shouldn't even be compared to Kobe.

bucketss
01-14-2013, 09:41 PM
Because Magic is my favorite player i try to stay away from threads like these but i will say this. If Lebron can't take this current cast to 9 nba finals winning 5 and get multiple final MVP's he shouldn't even be in the discussion.

The reason i say with this cast is because people like to argue he had a crap team in Cleveland, i say he plays in a weaker conference but whatever. Now he has a superior team to most, so there's no more excuses.

We will see who he is, and if he finishes his career with only the lockout ring, he shouldn't even be compared to Kobe.

:facepalm: stop posting please.

nickdymez
01-14-2013, 09:45 PM
:facepalm: stop posting please.

When Lebron apologist have no other response, they post **** like this

bucketss
01-14-2013, 09:48 PM
When Lebron apologist have no other response, they post **** like this

so you're telling me lebron with all hes done so far can't even get a comparison .. not even saying hes better just simple comparison. but jerry ****ing west and oscar robertson are talked in the same breath already? they also have one ring would you say they can't be compared to kobe? gtfoh. lebron is just too damn disrespected.

bucketss
01-14-2013, 09:50 PM
lock out ring so what? i guess you haters have more ammo to discredit lebron with smh.

el hidalgo
01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
You can tell a guy who doesn't know anything about basketball, the only argument he has is stats :facepalm:

yes, because there are so many fans out there that just only look and stats and dont enjoy watching the game...

NYTHRILLZ97
01-14-2013, 10:32 PM
I've never been to California so I'm honestly curious... Are the majority of kids from LA this illogical and irrational, or is it just fans of the Lakers? I'm sure a lot of Laker fans on here are intelligent, but they are in the minority.

bucketss
01-14-2013, 11:00 PM
yes, because there are so many fans out there that just only look and stats and dont enjoy watching the game...

i honestly never seen nick even attempt to make an argument in anything, he only has opinions in kobe or lebron related threads its funny he would call out anyone's basketball knowledge lmao.

ThaDubs
01-14-2013, 11:01 PM
is it bad to say malone is better than duncan? malone was just unfortunate to play in the same era as the greatest.

Yeah it is. It's pretty bad.

ThaDubs
01-14-2013, 11:05 PM
I've never been to California so I'm honestly curious... Are the majority of kids from LA this illogical and irrational, or is it just fans of the Lakers? I'm sure a lot of Laker fans on here are intelligent, but they are in the minority.

Yes they are. Well a lot of them. I have a lot of really chill friends who are Lakers fans but on the internet they're annoying and at Warriors games they're *******s and loud as ****. They can't take a lack of success. They always have an excuse as to why anything goes wrong.

bucketss
01-14-2013, 11:06 PM
Yeah it is. It's pretty bad.

if he didn't play in jordans era it wouldn't be right? same exact player but this time he has rings.

bucketss
01-14-2013, 11:07 PM
I've never been to California so I'm honestly curious... Are the majority of kids from LA this illogical and irrational, or is it just fans of the Lakers? I'm sure a lot of Laker fans on here are intelligent, but they are in the minority.

most of the lakers fans in this forum aren't even from la lmao.

nickdymez
01-14-2013, 11:07 PM
i honestly never seen nick even attempt to make an argument in anything, he only has opinions in kobe or lebron related threads its funny he would call out anyone's basketball knowledge lmao.

Because you choose to see what you please. Your like a woman.

smiddy012
01-14-2013, 11:26 PM
Ring-wise, no. In all other regards, yes.

ThaDubs
01-14-2013, 11:28 PM
Because you choose to see what you please. Your like a woman.

Lakers fans got no respect for ladies.

nickdymez
01-15-2013, 12:10 AM
Ring-wise, no. In all other regards, yes.

All other regards like what?

BULLSFAN0810
01-15-2013, 03:56 AM
can you prove any of this with stats or is it just that NBA superfan intuition telling you "wow, this guy is simply great" when you watch him play?

all u gotta do is observe ...you disreguard the eye test , but stats are for the the blind ones who cant understand the simple things as such as position and game flow. im not saying stats are worthless,but those who spew stas imho are the ones who havent played at certain levels. i cant see some hof player spewing stats only giving praise. i see i.e, Shaq when he comments on DH,he talks about intensity which leads to stats. You talk about the dinner and how it tasted, im telling you how to go home and cook it yourself. i watched growing up how a SLOW As Crap Magic would post guards up bringing the ball up court causing a mismatch that causes a double team,where James waste soo much energy attacking , but James and Magics outcome was the same ...ONE USED LESS ENERGY TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING.Thats how i judge, How your mind accomplishes a feat. James will get older and he wont run or jump as high,basketball skill is key...while you look at stats im looking at smarts because there are soo many guys who can score ,but few who can actually orchestrate. James is a stat stuffer but he isnt MAGIC

tredigs
01-15-2013, 03:58 AM
all u gotta do is observe ...you disreguard the eye test , but stats are for the the blind ones who cant understand the simple things as such as position and game flow. im not saying stats are worthless,but those who spew stas imho are the ones who havent played at certain levels. i cant see some hof player spewing stats only giving praise. i see i.e, Shaq when he comments on DH,he talks about intensity which leads to stats. You talk about the dinner and how it tasted, im telling you how to go home and cook it yourself. i watched growing up how a SLOW As Crap Magic would post guards up bringing the ball up court causing a mismatch that causes a double team,where James waste soo much energy attacking , but James and Magics outcome was the same ...ONE USED LESS ENERGY TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING.Thats how i judge, How your mind accomplishes a feat. James will get older and he wont run or jump as high,basketball skill is key...while you look at stats im looking at smarts because there are soo many guys who can score ,but few who can actually orchestrate. James is a stat stuffer but he isnt MAGIC

If I'm picking a GM, I want Sam Presti over Michael Jordan. Take that for what it's worth. I couldn't read past half of this post though.

BULLSFAN0810
01-15-2013, 04:13 AM
If I'm picking a GM, I want Sam Presti over Michael Jordan. Take that for what it's worth. I couldn't read past half of this post though.

then youre a hater...if you think any NBA team or GM can jumpstart a team and win YOURE DUMB..LOOK AT ALL THE TEAMS. NONE HAVE WON QUICKLY. Some put together a great team,but fizzled. So just by hating on a BASICALLY INFANT FRANCHISE AND ITS OWNER WHO IS GM, WHO BOUGHT THE TEAM ON HIS OWN, AND HE WAS A PLAYER... IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR MAD MJ CRUSHED YOUR TEAM FOR YEARS... OR YOUR MAD THE SLAVE(PLAYER) BECAME THE MASTER(OWNER). Im willing to bet OKC wont win soon. OR i.E ..THE GRIZZ IS TRYING TO BLOW IT UP,EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE GOOD. If youre looking at Drafts .its hit or miss and you Lames bring up Kwame Brown .. he was a consensus #1 pick...meaning your owner wouldve picked him...Adam morrison..he was drafted by a brain trust ,even though Jordan wanted RUDY GAY. you guys watch ball but dont get it. i was like that when i was young.:facepalm: And okc isnt a baby its the Supersonics,they won already

nickdymez
01-15-2013, 03:20 PM
If I'm picking a GM, I want Sam Presti over Michael Jordan. Take that for what it's worth. I couldn't read past half of this post though.

Cuz your an idiot and just got shitted on

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:48 PM
then youre a hater...if you think any NBA team or GM can jumpstart a team and win YOURE DUMB..LOOK AT ALL THE TEAMS. NONE HAVE WON QUICKLY. Some put together a great team,but fizzled. So just by hating on a BASICALLY INFANT FRANCHISE AND ITS OWNER WHO IS GM, WHO BOUGHT THE TEAM ON HIS OWN, AND HE WAS A PLAYER... IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR MAD MJ CRUSHED YOUR TEAM FOR YEARS... OR YOUR MAD THE SLAVE(PLAYER) BECAME THE MASTER(OWNER). Im willing to bet OKC wont win soon. OR i.E ..THE GRIZZ IS TRYING TO BLOW IT UP,EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE GOOD. If youre looking at Drafts .its hit or miss and you Lames bring up Kwame Brown .. he was a consensus #1 pick...meaning your owner wouldve picked him...Adam morrison..he was drafted by a brain trust ,even though Jordan wanted RUDY GAY. you guys watch ball but dont get it. i was like that when i was young.:facepalm: And okc isnt a baby its the Supersonics,they won already

But that doesnt make sense, does MJ hate himself? Hes the one whos finally allowing the stat guy make decisions for the team? I mean isnt it telling that the best rookie season anyone has had as an MJ draft pick wasn't even chosen by MJ?

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:48 PM
Cuz your an idiot and just got shitted on

Isn't the correct term; "You just got shat on"?