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Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 02:25 PM
BOSTON -- The Boston Red Sox are moving toward acquiring closer Joel Hanrahan from the Pittsburgh Pirates, according to multiple sources. However, one official cautioned that there was "still work to be done."

More On The Red Sox

Gordon Edes and the rest of the ESPNBoston.com team have the Red Sox covered for you. Blog
Hanrahan saved a total of 76 games over the last two seasons for the Pirates and is a year away from free agency. With incumbent closer Andrew Bailey still a question mark after a season in which he was injured for most of the year, then pitched ineffectively, it makes sense that the Sox would explore bullpen upgrades.

It is unclear what the Pirates would be getting back in return. Pittsburgh has been looking for pitching, primarily starters, but just came to terms with Francisco Liriano.

One major league source said Pittsburgh is seeking a "significant return" for Hanrahan, an All-Star in each of the last two seasons. He earned $4.1 million in 2012 and can expect a significant bump in salary arbitration, to close to $7 million.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8772487/joel-hanrahan-close-being-traded-pittsburgh-pirates-boston-red-sox

Nomar
12-22-2012, 02:27 PM
Don't like it

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 02:28 PM
hate it

Station 13
12-22-2012, 02:29 PM
meh

Nomar
12-22-2012, 02:31 PM
4+ ERA mess here

Station 13
12-22-2012, 02:34 PM
"Closers MENTALLY"

Gagne
Melancon
Bailey
Hanrahan


LOAD OF CRAP

Sweet_Caroline
12-22-2012, 02:34 PM
If it means just giving up 40 man fodder it would be ok I guess to clear up room.

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 02:39 PM
i don't mind getting Joel Hanrahan but 1 year rental for a solid prospect? ehh but im praying we get jones also!

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 02:40 PM
This worries me. Cherington overvalues relievers that have been closers. He got burned in both deals last year, I hope hes learned his lesson.

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 02:44 PM
theres gotta be protection in this deal.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 02:45 PM
I think Iggy blows and I'd be upset if we gave him up for Hanrahan.

xnick5757
12-22-2012, 02:49 PM
dat -0.2 fWAR
4.45 FIP
4.28 xFIP

:drool:

Station 13
12-22-2012, 02:49 PM
dat -0.2 fWAR
4.45 FIP
4.28 xFIP

:drool:

One of the killer Bs is gone!

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 03:00 PM
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#redsox still talking to #pirates about hanrahan. likely be for multiple players. jose iglesias not in current offerings

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-22-2012, 03:00 PM
Depending on the cost I like the aquisition. Pitching is valuable in all forms.

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 03:03 PM
RT @JimBowdenESPNxm: Red Sox are not going to include: Bogaerts, Barnes, Bradley, Webster, De La Rosa in a Hanrahan type deal

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 03:05 PM
maybe Brentz & Alex Wilson? still meh

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 03:06 PM
^ OK, Wright, Pimentel, Butler, Hazelbaker - that's the sort of guys I want to cough up.

Jacobs maybe, not Brentz. Wilson - maybe.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 03:06 PM
Another amazing bit of insight from Bowden.

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-22-2012, 03:09 PM
^ OK, Wright, Pimentel, Butler, Hazelbaker - that's the sort of guys I want to cough up.

Jacobs maybe, not Brentz. Wilson - maybe.

Wilson makes sense as do Jacobs and a few others. At this point Alex Wilson is better on some other teams roster. Seeing that he will not likely beat out Bard, Melcancon (I think he could), Bailey, Uehara, etc.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 03:09 PM
Why would we give Brentz up for him? I highly doubt we would. Especially after the Reddick trade. Even Wilson I doubt will be involved. Maybe Coyle. I pray Jacobs isn't involved.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 03:10 PM
Wilson makes sense as do Jacobs and a few others. At this point Alex Wilson is better on some other teams roster. Seeing that he will not likely beat out Bard, Melcancon (I think he could), Bailey, Uehara, etc.

He wouldn't beat out Melancon this year

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 03:16 PM
JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
Source involved in trade talks with Pirates-Red Sox "just not close enough yet" to give names

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 03:20 PM
i think BC knows what hes doing. If Bailey never had surgery we wouldn't be in the situation. Obviously they are worried that Bailey could re-injury himself again. When Bailey came back he was a complete mess. If we are giving up multi players for him I highly doubt its a rental for 1 year if thats true then the sox screwed up big time. Yes his walks were high but I think that can be fixed if thats his only problems

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 03:50 PM
Why would we give Brentz up for him? I highly doubt we would. Especially after the Reddick trade. Even Wilson I doubt will be involved. Maybe Coyle. I pray Jacobs isn't involved.

Jacobs is falling down the lists according to the scouts I reading recently. The point is, I want to give up 3 pieces of crap. If we get Hanrahan and he sucks, we could still flip him to a NL team at the deadline to get something back.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 03:51 PM
Jacobs is falling down the lists according to the scouts I reading recently. The point is, I want to give up 3 pieces of crap. If we get Hanrahan and he sucks, we could still flip him to a NL team at the deadline to get something back.

I would want the same. And Jacobs is falling, but also is a personal favorite of mine.

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 03:53 PM
i think BC knows what hes doing. If Bailey never had surgery we wouldn't be in the situation. Obviously they are worried that Bailey could re-injury himself again. When Bailey came back he was a complete mess. If we are giving up multi players for him I highly doubt its a rental for 1 year if thats true then the sox screwed up big time. Yes his walks were high but I think that can be fixed if thats his only problems

They won't extend Hanrahan unless he proves himself. If he proves himself the price goes up. Hanrahans agent won't let him sign an extension unless it's for a lot - such as 3/18. Sox would be idiots to pay that.

Ergo, if he comes, he won't be extended as part of the deal.

Also, multiple players mean nothing, I've listed 5 players so far of almost no value. Like Hazelbaker, Butler, Wright. It's the quality x quantity that matters.

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 03:58 PM
JIM BOWDEN‏@JimBowdenESPNxm

What return makes the most sense in exchange for Hanrahan? Morales & Bard? Iglesias straight-up? Brentz & Owens? Tazawa & Aceves?


https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/282574561118146560

Nomar
12-22-2012, 04:00 PM
Tazawa > Hanrahan

xnick5757
12-22-2012, 04:11 PM
iglesias straight up is the only deal I would consider

SirHizz
12-22-2012, 04:23 PM
No matter what, Ben better doesn't get fleeced for a reliever yet again. It's always risky and Hanrahan isn't as proven as Bailey was when we traded for him, not to mention the contracts...Hanrahan is only under contract for 1 year and you're not getting compensated.

jtchilln
12-22-2012, 04:27 PM
I could see a combo of 2 of these guys and a low level spec moved for him.

Britton
Kalish
Nava
Wilson
Pimental

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 04:34 PM
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
One name that could be in mix is Jerry Sands, an OF with power and yrs of control. #hanrahan trade

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-22-2012, 04:35 PM
Heyman speculates that it may be Sands.

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 04:39 PM
i projected Sands to be part of the deal

EwanSellars
12-22-2012, 04:41 PM
coyle and butler would be good for this deal if we give up owens ill cry

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 04:43 PM
If we give up Owens in this deal ill jump off a bridge.

Thankfully this would never halpen

thebrianscal
12-22-2012, 04:44 PM
as long as no top level prospects go im fine with it, the more pitching the better, but young starters are needed more than adding to an already fairly crowded bullpen so any real assets we have should be kept unless a deal for a young ace comes around

Station 13
12-22-2012, 04:49 PM
Tazawa > Hanrahan

I can't stop laughing at Bowden.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 04:53 PM
I can't stop laughing at Bowden.

The guy just has no clue with players' value, especially given the fct he was a GM, albeit a terrible one.

I just want us to get it over with, the horrible trade speculation for Hanrahan everywhere i look is making me shake my head so hard i may get a concussion.

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 04:54 PM
I think it would probably be Sands & Wilson or Melancon with Britton or Pimentel or Chris Hernandez

Nomar
12-22-2012, 04:56 PM
Noe Ramirez

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 04:57 PM
I could see a combo of 2 of these guys and a low level spec moved for him.

Britton
Kalish
Nava
Wilson
Pimental

Kalish is too valuable IMO.

SirHizz
12-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Sands is part of the trade per Bowden

I am ok with that, even though he's intriguing. Let's see who else goes, but Sands better be the main part of the deal.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-22-2012, 04:57 PM
i projected Sands to be part of the deal

But you didn't:shrug:

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 04:58 PM
Hanrahan WILL be dealt. Sands is part of the deal. Latest tweet from the 'Jedi'.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 04:59 PM
Not surprising that Sands goes, hes never even played for us so it's not someone we should be afraid to cut ties with. He has years of control and is MLB ready. Expect other parts to be low level specs.

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 05:00 PM
But you didn't:shrug:

i didn't projected it here....

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 05:01 PM
Not surprising that Sands goes, hes never even played for us so it's not someone we should be afraid to cut ties with. He has years of control and is MLB ready. Expect other parts to be low level specs.

This.

Or some journeyman types off the 40 man. Love it if Butler was one of the guys along with an end of the 40 man bum pen guy - take your pick.

KmB728
12-22-2012, 05:02 PM
maybe Brentz & Alex Wilson? still meh

You projected Sands though right?

:rolleyes:

Nomar
12-22-2012, 05:02 PM
‏@JimBowdenESPNxm:

The Red Sox- Pirates deal is NOT completed though according to Pirates source but in final stages

Pirates source confirms Joel Hanrahan will be dealt to Red Sox and in fact Jerry Sands is part of the deal as speculated by @JonHeymanCBS

If Jerry Sands is the center piece of the deal that sends Hanrahan to the Red Sox....then this one will be lopsided the RedSox way

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 05:02 PM
i didn't projected it here....

Yeah... I called Mass Millions twice the past six months but was too lazy to play.... :clap:

It's all good man...

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 05:10 PM
Yeah... I called Mass Millions twice the past six months but was too lazy to play.... :clap:

It's all good man...

:laugh2:

Nomar
12-22-2012, 05:10 PM
This.

Or some journeyman types off the 40 man. Love it if Butler was one of the guys along with an end of the 40 man bum pen guy - take your pick.

If we are right here and the other pieces are throw aways, then I find this a good trade because we in essence got Hanrahan, RDLR, and Webster along with enormous salary relief from the LAD trade.

quinnjack
12-22-2012, 05:13 PM
I really hate that Sands is in this deal.

I'm sure I'm probably on an island on this one, but when Jerry Sands is a Paul Konerko clone we'll all regret this one.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 05:16 PM
I really hate that Sands is in this deal.

I'm sure I'm probably on an island on this one, but when Jerry Sands is a Paul Konerko clone we'll all regret this one.

Lol I'd be sorry too, but there's no way.

Konerko has really low K rates which lets his power really play up. Sands may have equal raw power to Konerko, but his swing and miss problems will always hold him back from being Konerko, and probably from being a starting player as well.

SirHizz
12-22-2012, 05:17 PM
Does this trade mean that Ben perceives this group as contenders? Why else would you trade for a 1-year closer?
I disagree with him, but Hanrahan could have value if he's performing and we are out by the DL.

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 05:20 PM
If Sands is the best talent we give up this is worth doing. He's pretty much irrelevant on this team. I guess the Pirates really don't want to pay Hanrahan's arbitration salary.

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 05:20 PM
they still need a big move or two away from contending which i doubt that happens. but O's did have a very good pen last year with a Medicore rotation. maybe taking a page out of the O's Book?
'

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 05:21 PM
Does this trade mean that Ben perceives this group as contenders? Why else would you trade for a 1-year closer?
I disagree with him, but Hanrahan could have value if he's performing and we are out by the DL.

It's like the Russian Imperial Eagle - it has two heads, one looks West, the other East. Just about everything BC is doing can be seen as team building, and if that fails in either '13, '14 and/or '15, he can bail out from those guys and translate them into specs or young ML players of some quality.

Beats the hell out of playing to win now, or lose now and win later only.

homie564
12-22-2012, 05:23 PM
I really hate that Sands is in this deal.

I'm sure I'm probably on an island on this one, but when Jerry Sands is a Paul Konerko clone we'll all regret this one.

jerry sands will not be a potential hall of fame first baseman.. I think a better comparison might be a james Loney type who strikes out more often lol. A journeyman most likely. Or best case scenerio, he's Adam Lind with slightly more on base ability (.750 or so OPS).

BGeer091
12-22-2012, 05:23 PM
If Sands is the best talent we give up this is worth doing. He's pretty much irrelevant on this team. I guess the Pirates really don't want to pay Hanrahan's arbitration salary.

I was hoping that Sands would be given a chance here, but I agree that if he is the main piece you have to do it.

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-22-2012, 05:23 PM
Jerry Sands is a Paul Konerko clone. Woah, where did that comp. come from. Sands is someone I won't regret losing at all.

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 05:23 PM
I really hate that Sands is in this deal.

I'm sure I'm probably on an island on this one, but when Jerry Sands is a Paul Konerko clone we'll all regret this one.

Not sure I'd go that far, but he's easy to argue as a more convincing ML player long term than Iglesias.

Nomar
12-22-2012, 05:24 PM
We aren't all in. More like Cherington keeping cry babies at bay, and waiting to make his real power move for contention in 2015.

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 05:24 PM
Does this trade mean that Ben perceives this group as contenders? Why else would you trade for a 1-year closer?
I disagree with him, but Hanrahan could have value if he's performing and we are out by the DL.

If he's doing well you can trade him mid season, when teams are the most desperate for bullpen help. I'm concerned about his walk rates last year, and his very low babip reverting, but he has a high ceiling. His 2010-2011 seasons were very good, and he has very good stuff. If all we are giving up is spare parts then this is a good trade for us. It also helps clear the 40 man roster.

xnick5757
12-22-2012, 05:27 PM
JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
Pimental and Sands are both in Hanrahan deal according to Pirates source

Nomar
12-22-2012, 05:27 PM
Hanrahan, Bailey, Bard, Uehara, Tazawa, Miller, Morales, Breslow, Melancon, Aceves, Mortensen, Carpenter, and Wilson are guys who are all ready to contribute to the pen. Atch/Hill may be resigned too. Stacked bullpen. Potentially historically so. There needs to be a trade or two though. I personally doubt Aceves is back.

xnick5757
12-22-2012, 05:28 PM
Hanrahan, Bailey, Bard, Uehara, Tazawa, Miller, Morales, Breslow, Melancon, Aceves, Mortensen, Carpenter, and Wilson are guys who are all ready to contribute to the pen. Atch/Hill may be resigned too. Stacked bullpen. Potentially historically so.

and they are going to need it with this rotation

quinnjack
12-22-2012, 05:28 PM
Lol I'd be sorry too, but there's no way.

Konerko has really low K rates which lets his power really play up. Sands may have equal raw power to Konerko, but his swing and miss problems will always hold him back from being Konerko, and probably from being a starting player as well.

Paul Konerko in 1999 (AAA, AAA, MLB, MLB) - 21 HR, 94 RBI, 46/70 BB/K, .271 combine BA, .380 combine OBP - Looked over matched at MLB level.

Jerry Sands in 2012 - (AAA, MLB) - 26 HR, 108 RBI, 60/117 BB/K, .289 combine BA, .373 combine OBP - Looked over matched at the MLB level.

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 05:30 PM
Pimental too? That's great. He's a headcase that's almost out of options, looks like a reliever at best, and is a 40-man clogger.

homie564
12-22-2012, 05:32 PM
Pimental?? They want him? Sweet. As much as Hanrahan doesn't really turn me on this is sounding like a no brainer for us.

xnick5757
12-22-2012, 05:34 PM
so with this trade we are likely over the lux tax threshold, right?

:laugh:

Nomar
12-22-2012, 05:35 PM
Too bad we had to give up Paul Konerko in this trade...

Oh well i guess its still okay for us.

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 05:36 PM
so with this trade we are likely over the lux tax threshold, right?

:laugh:

first time offense... Last year we were NOT (only yankees were)

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 05:41 PM
No. Speier projected the payroll after the Drew deal, and projected they had around $10M, but I believe his arb estimates were really generous to the players. Potentially more trades too.

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 05:41 PM
So this would give us

Hanrahn
Bailey
Bard
Uehera
Morales
Breslow
Miller

That's a formidable pen and this frees us up to move aceves or bailey. In aaa we'd have taZawa Wilson Delarosa and atchison if he returns

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 05:42 PM
Hanrahan, Bailey, Bard, Uehara, Tazawa, Miller, Morales, Breslow, Melancon, Aceves, Mortensen, Carpenter, and Wilson are guys who are all ready to contribute to the pen. Atch/Hill may be resigned too. Stacked bullpen. Potentially historically so. There needs to be a trade or two though. I personally doubt Aceves is back.

Farrell is said to really like Aceves.

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 05:44 PM
trade signal napoli deal close?

JPBoston
12-22-2012, 05:44 PM
I hate to give up specs with any potential at all for this guy... but whatever.

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 05:47 PM
RT @biertempfeltrib: Source confirms #Pirates will trade Hanrahan and one other player (prospect?) to Red Sox.

Green_Monster
12-22-2012, 05:49 PM
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. You're using arbitrary minor league numbers years upon years apart. And "Nomar" at least has the respect of people in these forums, you ignorant POS.

Konerko was 23 that year, Sands was 26. Base stat lines mean NEXT TO NOTHING in the minor leagues, not to mention that Sands was in the best hitters ballpark in the entire minor leagues. They have about a 7% difference in K rates, which is very substantial. That's off based?

Not to be picky but Sands was 24 last year. :)

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 05:53 PM
RT @biertempfeltrib: Source confirms #Pirates will trade Hanrahan and one other player (prospect?) to Red Sox.

Really? We must be giving up more if that's the case.

Green_Monster
12-22-2012, 05:54 PM
The Red Sox and Pirates have agreed to a deal that will send Joel Hanrahan to Boston, according to Jim Bowden of ESPN.com (on Twitter). Jerry Sands and Stolmy Pimentel will go to Pittsburgh in the swap and there will be more players involved in the deal.

Hanrahan, 31, pitched to a 2.72 ERA with 10.1 K/9 and 5.4 BB/9 in 59 2/3 innings for Pittsburgh last season. He earned $4.1MM and projects to earn $6.9MM through arbitration next year. Hanrahan is scheduled to become a free agent after 2013.

Andrew Bailey, Boston's incumbent closer, pitched to a 7.04 ERA in 15 1/3 innings in 2012 while missing most of the year with injuries. WEEI.com's Rob Bradford reports they have not discussed free agent Rafael Soriano despite having a protected first round pick. The Dodgers were among the teams with interest in Hanrahan in recent weeks.

ESPNBoston.com's Gordon Edes first reported that the two sides were nearing an agreement.

-MLB Trade Rumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/red-sox-acquire-joel-hanrahan-from-pirates.html)

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Sands and pimental that's nothing we got off light

quinnjack
12-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Not sure I'd go that far, but he's easy to argue as a more convincing ML player long term than Iglesias.

Alright then. You guys all gave me ***** when I said the Sox would sign John Smoltz, then when I said they'd sign Cody Ross, so on, so forth.

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 05:55 PM
@alexspeier
Source: More to the Pirates/Red Sox deal than what's been reported to this point. Seemingly, others will be included

‏@JonHeymanCBS
#pirates will get 4 players in trade that is being finalized. They include sands and pimental. #hanrahan

Now I am nervous.

grandsalami
12-22-2012, 05:57 PM
@alexspeier
Source: More to the Pirates/Red Sox deal than what's been reported to this point. Seemingly, others will be included

‏@JonHeymanCBS
#pirates will get 4 players in trade that is being finalized. They include sands and pimental. #hanrahan

Now I am nervous.

we are clearing up dead wood on the 40 man... Napoli and I think one other still need to be "official and on 40 man)

penuch
12-22-2012, 05:58 PM
@alexspeier
Source: More to the Pirates/Red Sox deal than what's been reported to this point. Seemingly, others will be included

‏@JonHeymanCBS
#pirates will get 4 players in trade that is being finalized. They include sands and pimental. #hanrahan

Now I am nervous.

4 players for him, jeez, no way he is worth that much. Hopefully the next two are just low level nothings.

Station 13
12-22-2012, 06:00 PM
@alexspeier
Source: More to the Pirates/Red Sox deal than what's been reported to this point. Seemingly, others will be included

‏@JonHeymanCBS
#pirates will get 4 players in trade that is being finalized. They include sands and pimental. #hanrahan

Now I am nervous.

w.t.f

Station 13
12-22-2012, 06:04 PM
What does this mean for Baily, is he out as the closer? He average 35IP the last 3 year. Definitely loses out because of that.

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 06:05 PM
@JonHeymanCBS
Hanrahan trade is 6-player deal as constituted. 4 to pitts, 2 to bos.

Green_Monster
12-22-2012, 06:06 PM
Hanrahan trade is 6-player deal as constituted. 4 to pitts, 2 to bos.

-Heyman (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/282606605227409409)

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:06 PM
What does this mean for Baily, is he out as the closer? He average 35IP the last 3 year. Definitely loses out because of that.

Bailey would move to setup and Hanrahan to close

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 06:08 PM
Sands stats at AAA are a asterisk because of the PCL Leauge factor

Pedroia
12-22-2012, 06:08 PM
It has to be McCutcheon!

:laugh2:

-Lavigne43-
12-22-2012, 06:09 PM
It has to be McCutcheon!

:laugh2:

I hope not http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccutda01.shtml

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 06:10 PM
Hope it's only aaa fodder

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:11 PM
PeteAbe Hard to argue against getting a closer for some spare parts. #redsox

I agree

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-22-2012, 06:11 PM
I hope not http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccutda01.shtml

Only BC would do such a thing:pity::rolleyes:

Celtic AL
12-22-2012, 06:11 PM
Maybe Gabby Sanchez?

Lackeyfan41
12-22-2012, 06:11 PM
Please be Garret Jones

BGeer091
12-22-2012, 06:12 PM
Any chance its Josh Bell? or Alex Dickerson??

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:13 PM
Don't expect anyone significant in return. I'd be shocked. Expect someone you never heard of

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:13 PM
Peter Gammons‏@pgammo

Boston now has 3 LH Relievers, LHHs .135 vs. Hanrahan, .188 vs. Uehara
:drool:

Pedroia
12-22-2012, 06:14 PM
I hope not http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccutda01.shtml

No, No, No... this one!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccutan01.shtml

Nomar
12-22-2012, 06:15 PM
No, No, No... this one!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccutan01.shtml

never heard of him

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 06:15 PM
If it was jones who would we include?

Pedroia
12-22-2012, 06:16 PM
never heard of him

He's kinda unheard of, flies under the radar.

:D

Nomar
12-22-2012, 06:17 PM
He's kinda unheard of, flies under the radar.

:D

haha. hey he did in the second half.

Lackeyfan41
12-22-2012, 06:18 PM
Maybe this is the answer for the crappy starting staff.

Load up on quality BP and bring them in early?

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:19 PM
Maybe this is the answer for the crappy starting staff.

Load up on quality BP and bring them in early?

Prob now go get Wilson! Then we would have a sick BP

Tragedy
12-22-2012, 06:19 PM
I wouldn't mind getting a backup 1b/3b type of guy as the second player. That's really all we need.

SirHizz
12-22-2012, 06:20 PM
I highly doubt Jones is involved, if he was, we'd already know by now. Prepare for a no name.

Lackeyfan41
12-22-2012, 06:21 PM
Prob now go get Wilson! Then we would have a sick BP

That would be nice, our pen would be unhitable. They would definitely make up for the crappy staff and short games from the likes of Lester and Doubront.

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:22 PM
alexspeier Just to confirm what's been reported elsewhere: agreement in place, but deal between Sox and Pirates still not final (presumably, physicals

https://twitter.com/alexspeier

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 06:24 PM
Power arms
Power arms
Power arms

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:24 PM
That would be nice, our pen would be unhitable. They would definitely make up for the crappy staff and short games from the likes of Lester and Doubront.

Exactly. I don't think the sox are done with BP help. I think our roster will be at 40 but if we add Wilson we can trade/DFA someone

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 06:32 PM
Bp or not... We need a rotation that goes deep into games. The bullpen can only shorten so much

Bo Sox Fan
12-22-2012, 06:37 PM
AJ Burnette anyone?

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 06:39 PM
brianmacp There's no chance Hanrahan nets Red Sox a draft pick if/when he departs as a free agent after the season. If tendered a qualifying offer...he'd be a fool not to take it after watching what Rafael Soriano has confronted with compensation attached to him this winter.
https://twitter.com/brianmacp

Station 13
12-22-2012, 06:45 PM
https://twitter.com/brianmacp

A QO in '14 might be close to $15M

avrpatsfan
12-22-2012, 07:11 PM
Pirates and Red Sox have agreed to trade with Hanrahan, Pimental and Sands all involved waiting on rest of deal
Jim Bowden (https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/282599162351079424)

avrpatsfan
12-22-2012, 07:13 PM
#pirates will get 4 players in trade that is being finalized. They include sands and pimental. #hanrahan
Jon Heyman (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/282604888104513536)

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 07:30 PM
Alright then. You guys all gave me ***** when I said the Sox would sign John Smoltz, then when I said they'd sign Cody Ross, so on, so forth.

WTH are you talking about? BTW I was on the Cody Ross bandwagon before everyone here, or very near the top. Leave me out of your dramas please.

bagwell368
12-22-2012, 07:32 PM
Bailey would move to setup and Hanrahan to close

How about the Sox evaluate in ST before any decisions are cast in stone.

KingPapelbon
12-22-2012, 07:42 PM
Already love the guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKnrqc8l23U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

j-bay
12-22-2012, 07:48 PM
Already love the guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKnrqc8l23U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

He said that if youk did his batting stance and he was overdoing it, he would hit him.

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 07:51 PM
I hope the sox can keep his entrance when he comes in to close
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOg6NhOzWUw

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 07:54 PM
He said that if youk did his batting stance and he was overdoing it, he would hit him.

:laugh:

ruckus16969
12-22-2012, 07:54 PM
Im curious to who the rest of the players are

Soxfan85
12-22-2012, 07:59 PM
Im curious to who the rest of the players are

Someone you never heard of

RaginRondo17
12-22-2012, 08:25 PM
Bailey, Tazawa, Uehara, Hanrahan, Morales, Aceves, Bard, Melancon, Miller.

I am loving the options with the pen.

Tragedy
12-22-2012, 08:58 PM
Bailey, Tazawa, Uehara, Hanrahan, Morales, Aceves, Bard, Melancon, Miller.

I am loving the options with the pen.
And a guy like mortenson who pitched very well for us last year. A lot of depth and a lot of flexibility.

homie564
12-22-2012, 09:06 PM
now idk if he's spewing **** but my buddy just said Iglesias, melancon and jones are the other 3 pieces.

Nighthawk
12-22-2012, 09:42 PM
4:03pm: As it stands, the deal will be a six-player swap with four players going to Pittsburgh and two headed to Boston, according to Heyman


Interesting...

Wonder who the hell we get along with J.H

I know Sands & Pimentol are 2 of the 4 going to Pitt

celticsman2009
12-22-2012, 10:07 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/meekev01.shtml

You think Pitt would give us Meek

BostonSports96
12-22-2012, 10:21 PM
now idk if he's spewing **** but my buddy just said Iglesias, melancon and jones are the other 3 pieces.

Garret Jones? That'd be cool, he'd be Napoli's replacement.

ben_watson_84
12-22-2012, 10:53 PM
Last i heard Meek was non tendered and signed a deal with Texas. the player coming back is Jones, then maybe the Napoli deal falls through.

EDIT: if the player is Jones

bruins>habs
12-22-2012, 11:12 PM
why would The Pirates Give up Jones?

bruins>habs
12-22-2012, 11:18 PM
9:11pm: In an update of his earlier story, Edes reports that Mark Melancon could also be going to the Pirates in the trade. The 27-year-old right-hander pitched to a 6.20 ERA with 8.2 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 in 45 relief innings with the Red Sox after being acquired from the Astros last winter. He also spent some time in Triple-A.

Per MLBTR

redsox96
12-22-2012, 11:20 PM
If the player coming here is McCutchen :faint: no way lol

bruins>habs
12-22-2012, 11:27 PM
If the player coming here is McCutchen :faint: no way lol

really.............

homie564
12-22-2012, 11:31 PM
it'll prob be a depth guy coming to us and maybe another reliever going back to them (hill? atchison?)

homie564
12-22-2012, 11:32 PM
still hoping it's iglesias and jones :P... buddy was right about melancon :) lol

redsox96
12-22-2012, 11:32 PM
really.............

no

BostonSports96
12-22-2012, 11:33 PM
If we could get Garret Jones back, I'd send them better talent than 2 relievers and still be okay with it.

BostonSports96
12-22-2012, 11:33 PM
still hoping it's iglesias and jones :P... buddy was right about melancon :) lol

me too

MoVaughnsLunch
12-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Jones would be a good pickup

Payton4LIFE
12-22-2012, 11:45 PM
McCutchen just signed a nice extension. No way they give him up without TOP prospects...

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-23-2012, 12:01 AM
McCutchen just signed a nice extension. No way they give him up without TOP prospects...

No way they give him up period, I would find it completely impossible to see him coming to Boston unless it's as a free agent.

MoVaughnsLunch
12-23-2012, 12:10 AM
How did this turn into a mccutcheon talk? We have literally no chance at trading for him. He is their franchise. End of. Just signed a nice team friendly extension too

RaginRondo17
12-23-2012, 01:02 AM
The way this deal is being reported, I just find odd. Like 6 total players and 4 going to PIT and 2 coming back to BOS. We know the name of 3/4 and 1/2..why wouldn't we know the rest? Hopefully an answer by morning.

Bama Sox
12-23-2012, 01:26 AM
Hanrahan is due arbitration for 2013 and all estimates have him around $7 million for the season. This is a far cry from his $4.1 million 2012 salary. My guess is the deal hasn't been finalized b/c the Sox are working out an extension with Hanrahan. No extension = no deal. Or at least, I hope.

AI
12-23-2012, 03:11 AM
Robert Murray ‏@BigLeagueRumors
The #Pirates also have acquired Mark Melancon in the Joel Hanrahan trade with the #RedSox.

...

byan04
12-23-2012, 03:30 AM
id take either or jones,sanchez

Gormans Mic
12-23-2012, 06:30 AM
I hope its Willie Stargell

Jack Magic
12-23-2012, 06:33 AM
lol

Nighthawk
12-23-2012, 10:43 AM
Still no word?

Is that good or bad?

Soxfan85
12-23-2012, 10:44 AM
RochieWBZ Btw, the #RedSox are making progress on deal for Hanrahan. Was told when it is finalized it will be for Piementel, Sands, and Melancon #wbz
https://twitter.com/RochieWBZ

Celtic AL
12-23-2012, 11:15 AM
That's the "significant" offer that pirates wanted?

AI
12-23-2012, 11:27 AM
Melancon will most likely turn it around in the NL and is under club control until 2017. His 2012 season was rough, but I for one think he turned a corner in the second half. There was a stretch when he came up from AAA where he was unhittable. His numbers are very misleading, look at his xFIP 3.45 and SIERA 3.08. Take out the rough first month(s) and his numbers would end up looking much better. He's a nice replacement for Hanrahan and a good bet going forward especially pitching in Pittsburgh.

redsox96
12-23-2012, 11:30 AM
How did this turn into a mccutcheon talk? We have literally no chance at trading for him. He is their franchise. End of. Just signed a nice team friendly extension too

I made a joke, and everyone took it literal...

bagwell368
12-23-2012, 11:30 AM
Melancon is no closer, but a useful piece in the NL Central almost for sure. We have to know the Pirates other guy, if there is one and what we gave up. That Britton and get back Jones option sure sounded good.

AI
12-23-2012, 11:32 AM
Jones would be a nice get. If the Napoli deal falls through he can platoon at 1B, if it goes through, he could still platoon in the OF with Gomes.

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Jones would be a nice get. If the Napoli deal falls through he can platoon at 1B, if it goes through, he could still platoon in the OF with Gomes.

Exactly. Sort of puzzeling why the Pirates who covet controllable position and pitching would even fathom of trading him, but hey if he's coming over: great!

AI
12-23-2012, 11:37 AM
Exactly. Sort of puzzeling why the Pirates who covet controllable position and pitching would even fathom of trading him, but hey if he's coming over: great!

Woah, I had no idea he wasn't a FA until after 2016. He would be a nice get.

Celtic AL
12-23-2012, 11:54 AM
It's probably a PTBNL going both ways as the final pieces to the deal

AI
12-23-2012, 12:00 PM
It's probably a PTBNL going both ways as the final pieces to the deal

Highly unlikely since it's taken so long to announce it.

bagwell368
12-23-2012, 12:02 PM
A stab in the dark might be Aceves and $5M for Jones to finish it off.

RaginRondo17
12-23-2012, 12:29 PM
A stab in the dark might be Aceves and $5M for Jones to finish it off.

Wouldn't that be sweet? Than we can nix the Napoli deal and I wouldn't even mind.

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-23-2012, 12:36 PM
A stab in the dark might be Aceves and $5M for Jones to finish it off.

Sounds good to me. Two guys in Melancon and Aceves who might be useful in a different uniform, Sands who has not played any meaningful baseball in Boston and a prospect that hasn't succeeded in two plus years. That would be awesome to acquire Jones/Hanrahan in that. Sign me up.

j-bay
12-23-2012, 12:41 PM
Anybody think that if we do aquire Jones, that Sands would be the piece for Jones?

bagwell368
12-23-2012, 01:02 PM
Anybody think that if we do aquire Jones, that Sands would be the piece for Jones?

Well, Sands isn't enough, so it's more like:

Melancon, Pimentel for Hanrahan
Sands, Britton for Jones

roughly speaking of course, any cash added in would also help balance it. But whatever the logic, it won't be reported anyplace, in particular since both teams have their own take on it.

I'd give BC an Armed Forces Civilian Service Medal for this one.

j-bay
12-23-2012, 01:09 PM
Jon Heyman‏@JonHeymanCBS

Word is, still some discussion about final player or 2 in hanrahan deal. Not expected to derail it, but may delay past xmas

Jack Magic
12-23-2012, 01:13 PM
I wish they would hurry up and get it done.

Nomar
12-23-2012, 01:28 PM
No way its jones. If BC added him in the trade has essentially just begun. Maybe the pirates will do something incredibly stupid and give us Hanson or Polanco. Hell I'd throw in ellsbury if it got us Taillon lol.

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-23-2012, 01:29 PM
No way its jones. If BC added him in the trade has essentially just begun. Maybe the pirates will do something incredibly stupid and give us Hansen or Polanco. Hell I'd throw in ellsbury if it got us Taillon lol.

Give me Cole over Taillon. But, that's debatable.

Nomar
12-23-2012, 01:33 PM
Give me Cole over Taillon. But, that's debatable.

I'd side with you there but just in terms of value Cole would be more of a reach and harder for the pirates to let go of. They're both monsters, and Taillon gets overshadowed. I like Taillon more than Hultzen, who is someone mentioned often in ellsbury ideas.

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Are you guys spitting B.S right now in terms of Jones, Taillon, and Cole?

Nomar
12-23-2012, 01:51 PM
are you guys spitting b.s right now in terms of jones, taillon, and cole?

100%

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 01:55 PM
100%


As it stands, the deal will be a six-player swap with four players going to Pittsburgh and two headed to Boston, according to Heyman (via Twitter).


with what we gave up:

Sands, Pimental, Melancon, XXXX

Getting (So Far):

Hanrahan, XXXX


So....according to that tweet yesterday by Heyman, we still have one more player to give up, and one more to recieve.

Jack Magic
12-23-2012, 01:57 PM
I think we will be dissapointed

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 01:59 PM
I think we will be dissapointed

Well as it stands, we gave up pretty much nothing for a good BP guy...how can we be dissapointed? It all depends on that 4th player from the Sox, if it's someone decent, then we may get another decent guy from Pitts.

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 01:59 PM
Mlbtr:


sunday,11:57am: Mark melancon has not heard yet if he's going to be part of the trade, according to john tomase of the boston herald

Jack Magic
12-23-2012, 02:15 PM
You right bruins>habs. I just think we have our hopes set high on the other player we will recieve.

JPBoston
12-23-2012, 02:18 PM
I think we will be dissapointed

Agreed... but might as well keep the Christmas spirit alive and hope for some magic. ;)

Nomar
12-23-2012, 02:18 PM
Theres about a 99% chance its nobody to be excited about. If it was Jones I think we probably wouldve heard something by now.

Celtic AL
12-23-2012, 02:32 PM
Mlbtr:

John Tomase is a nobody

Tragedy
12-23-2012, 02:33 PM
Who cares who the second player yes. Yes, chances are it'll be no one of real value. I'd love a bench guy that plays 1b/3b because we've been searching for one. Not sure who on the pirates fits that. Either way, no matter what we get, we've given up nothing of real value for a legitimate reliever. Will he dominate in the AL east? I don't know. But it's worth trying based on the nothing were giving up.

bagwell368
12-23-2012, 02:53 PM
John Tomase is a nobody

False. He's a d-bag.

Celtic AL
12-23-2012, 03:00 PM
John Tomase is a nobody

False. He's a d-bag. i couldnt agree more! Hes the hearlds Eric Wilbur

ruckus16969
12-23-2012, 04:11 PM
false. He's a d-bag.

lol

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 04:19 PM
if the guy from the pirates is Taillon or Jones who would the extra player coming from our side have to be ?

ruckus16969
12-23-2012, 04:20 PM
Crazy how we dont know who the other players are.

Anyone think this could be part of something bigger. I would have thought our bp is pretty much set. Maybe there is another trade in the works somewhere? Maybe flippin a bp arm an some kids for a lf or 1b??

Anyways this makes me feel better about our rotation. When we have 4 or 5 potential 8th inning guys it should relieve a lil stress of the rotation. Then like someone said come July when we are out of it we can flip some of them to contenders to help with the rebuild

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 04:22 PM
Uehara
Bailey
Hanrahan

and MAYBE bard (big MAYBE)

:drool: pretty filthy.....on paper anyway

j-bay
12-23-2012, 04:26 PM
Evan Drellich‏@EvanDrellich

Joel Hanrahan trade between Red Sox and Pirates won't be done until after Christmas, source says. Confirms @JonHeymanCBS from earlier

ruckus16969
12-23-2012, 04:31 PM
That sucks. I want to know who the other player comibg is

-Lavigne43-
12-23-2012, 04:57 PM
I don't really like selling Melancon low if he is in the deal. He got a lot better in the 2nd half.

Our pen definitely has potential to be ridiculous. In a perfect world, obviously I'm aware of the big if's involved.

Hanrahan (2010-2011 numbers)
Bailey (healthy)
Bard (bounces back)
Uehara (keeps it up)
Tazawa (was filthy last year)
Melancon?
Breslow (keeps being a very good lefty)
Miller (was a good lefty last year)
Aceves
Morales

Nomar
12-23-2012, 05:02 PM
I don't really like selling Melancon low if he is in the deal. He got a lot better in the 2nd half.

Our pen definitely has potential to be ridiculous. In a perfect world, obviously I'm aware of the big if's involved.

Hanrahan (2010-2011 numbers)
Bailey (healthy)
Bard (bounces back)
Uehara (keeps it up)
Tazawa (was filthy last year)
Melancon?
Breslow (keeps being a very good lefty)
Miller (was a good lefty last year)
Aceves
Morales

plus insurance in Carpenter, Mortensen, and Wilson.

bruins>habs
12-23-2012, 05:21 PM
how many guys are usually in a pen ?

Bama Sox
12-23-2012, 05:36 PM
Melancon was throwing about 3 mph faster when August hit. I think he's a failed experiment in Boston only because of the poor situation that was 2012. He'll thrive in a set-up type role in the NL Central.

-Lavigne43-
12-23-2012, 05:39 PM
8 with a 4 man bench.

Nomar
12-23-2012, 05:53 PM
Melancon didnt have the confidence to succeed here. Mentally weak, but has good stuff. I think he'll be a good setup for Grilli in Pixxsburgh though.

willyssox
12-23-2012, 06:53 PM
hate it

Im not sure what there isnt to like. Ben wanted a clear #1 closer, last year Proved that we didnt have one. IF the player coming along with the Hammer ends up being Jones ( 20+ HR's and can play 1st & OF) then the trade would be a huge Win for the Sox. :clap:

todu82
12-23-2012, 07:24 PM
I actually like this. Hanrahan's one of my favourite closers in baseball.

PapelbonLester
12-24-2012, 01:17 AM
Im so happy about this. Building up the bullpen so then we can see what starters are worth keeping

willyssox
12-24-2012, 01:53 AM
They won't extend Hanrahan unless he proves himself. If he proves himself the price goes up. Hanrahans agent won't let him sign an extension unless it's for a lot - such as 3/18. Sox would be idiots to pay that.

Ergo, if he comes, he won't be extended as part of the deal.

Also, multiple players mean nothing, I've listed 5 players so far of almost no value. Like Hazelbaker, Butler, Wright. It's the quality x quantity that matters.

3/18 for a legitimate closer is too much?? I think not, look around the league. The Sox have wanted this guy for 2 years, and I believe in an attempt to make him feel at home/wanted and to solidify the position they will offer him a 3 year deal for most likely $10m pr.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:08 AM
as long as no top level prospects go im fine with it, the more pitching the better, but young starters are needed more than adding to an already fairly crowded bullpen so any real assets we have should be kept unless a deal for a young ace comes around

I am hoping that after this deal is done that we will then turn around and trade Bailey + 1 or 2 others to get Detroit's SP Porcello or Smyly, who are being shopped right now. That would give us that 1 young, strong arm for this year, of which we have none right now as Rubby is projected to go to the pen. If we had Porcello or Smyly for this year, Barnes & Webster for 2014, Owens for 2015, That would be perfect...

Tragedy
12-24-2012, 02:10 AM
8 with a 4 man bench.
7.

Bullpen - 7
Bench - 4
Starters - 5

=16

Then your 9 position players

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:13 AM
jerry sands will not be a potential hall of fame first baseman.. I think a better comparison might be a james Loney type who strikes out more often lol. A journeyman most likely. Or best case scenerio, he's Adam Lind with slightly more on base ability (.750 or so OPS).

I couldnt agree with you more. Look at Sands age, if he was the next Konerko wouldnt it have been discovered already. Why at his age is he still playing in AAA? because he isnt all that special that's why. Great guy, glimpses of power and that's it, similiar to Loney with 1 exception, Loney had a better glove at 1st than Sands has.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:17 AM
and they are going to need it with this rotation

Im with you, personally Im sick and tired of waiting for Lester to be the clear #1/Ace, I just dont see it happening, he cant be trusted. I would trade Lester, with Ellsbury and Bailey and get a REAL starting pitcher ( King Felix )? :)

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:19 AM
so with this trade we are likely over the lux tax threshold, right?

:laugh:

Nope.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:21 AM
So this would give us

Hanrahn
Bailey
Bard
Uehera
Morales
Breslow
Miller

That's a formidable pen and this frees us up to move aceves or bailey. In aaa we'd have taZawa Wilson Delarosa and atchison if he returns

Tazawa will be in the Majors, doubt Bard will be. Atchison isnt currently with the team, Aceves is being shopped as I would hope Bailey is as well.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:23 AM
RT @biertempfeltrib: Source confirms #Pirates will trade Hanrahan and one other player (prospect?) to Red Sox.

Im hoping we're getting Jones with the Hammer, that would be huge for us.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:26 AM
Bailey would move to setup and Hanrahan to close

Why would you think that when we have Tazawa & Uehara as our set up men. I believe Bailey will be traded for other needs we have, if not then Ben is an idiot...

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:27 AM
Id love it if it were.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:32 AM
it'll prob be a depth guy coming to us and maybe another reliever going back to them (hill? atchison?)

It cant be either of those relievers going to Pitt as they arent with the Sox right now, look at our 40 man Roster.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 02:35 AM
Hanrahan is due arbitration for 2013 and all estimates have him around $7 million for the season. This is a far cry from his $4.1 million 2012 salary. My guess is the deal hasn't been finalized b/c the Sox are working out an extension with Hanrahan. No extension = no deal. Or at least, I hope.

It hasnt been finalized because the MLB is shut down for Christmas, wait until Wednesday to get more/ final details.

ZHawk1123
12-24-2012, 09:18 AM
I couldnt agree with you more. Look at Sands age, if he was the next Konerko wouldnt it have been discovered already. Why at his age is he still playing in AAA? because he isnt all that special that's why. Great guy, glimpses of power and that's it, similiar to Loney with 1 exception, Loney had a better glove at 1st than Sands has.


Im with you, personally Im sick and tired of waiting for Lester to be the clear #1/Ace, I just dont see it happening, he cant be trusted. I would trade Lester, with Ellsbury and Bailey and get a REAL starting pitcher ( King Felix )? :)


Nope.


Tazawa will be in the Majors, doubt Bard will be. Atchison isnt currently with the team, Aceves is being shopped as I would hope Bailey is as well.


Im hoping we're getting Jones with the Hammer, that would be huge for us.


Why would you think that when we have Tazawa & Uehara as our set up men. I believe Bailey will be traded for other needs we have, if not then Ben is an idiot...


Id love it if it were.


It cant be either of those relievers going to Pitt as they arent with the Sox right now, look at our 40 man Roster.


It hasnt been finalized because the MLB is shut down for Christmas, wait until Wednesday to get more/ final details.

SO many posts in a row...

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 10:07 AM
3/18 for a legitimate closer is too much?? I think not, look around the league. The Sox have wanted this guy for 2 years, and I believe in an attempt to make him feel at home/wanted and to solidify the position they will offer him a 3 year deal for most likely $10m pr.

It didn't come out the way I meant. I meant 3 for $18 is what I would pay, but his agent wouldn't bite. Still, legitimate in the NL Central and AL East are two different things.

3 years for $30M, that seems unlikely. They would have been OK giving papelbon that money for 3 years when his deal was up, but this guy? With his propensity to put on weight, and walk too many guys? Nah.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 10:10 AM
I am hoping that after this deal is done that we will then turn around and trade Bailey + 1 or 2 others to get Detroit's SP Porcello or Smyly, who are being shopped right now. That would give us that 1 young, strong arm for this year, of which we have none right now as Rubby is projected to go to the pen. If we had Porcello or Smyly for this year, Barnes & Webster for 2014, Owens for 2015, That would be perfect...

Porcello can't break a pane of glass, so perhaps an arm capable of innings, but I don't see him as any improvement over Morales, certainly not enough to be trading 3 guys to get him for one year.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 10:14 AM
Im with you, personally Im sick and tired of waiting for Lester to be the clear #1/Ace, I just dont see it happening, he cant be trusted. I would trade Lester, with Ellsbury and Bailey and get a REAL starting pitcher ( King Felix )? :)

Lester's problems can largely be laid to the feet of:

1. Salty
2. Two inferior pitching coaches in a row
3. His own overly perfectionistic personality

Even in his worst year last year he had 3 very good/good months. There is nothing wrong with his arm. He needs a pitching coach he trusts that will push the right buttons.

Besides Seattle has no interest in a guy like Lester with two years of control and a good sized salary and Ellsbury who has but one year of control.

Bailey has to rebuild his value before he's going to draw much interest.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 10:17 AM
Tazawa will be in the Majors, doubt Bard will be. Atchison isnt currently with the team, Aceves is being shopped as I would hope Bailey is as well.

Farrell really likes Aceves supposedly. His trade value is down, between the Sox being able to tame him and him building his value through performance, I can't see any reason they should deal him at 40 cents on the dollar right now.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 10:19 AM
SO many posts in a row...

It's almost as if North Country was back in the house...

willyssox
12-24-2012, 10:24 AM
SO many posts in a row...

Hey I cant help that I was the only person on here at that time.

MoVaughnsLunch
12-24-2012, 10:39 AM
Looks like we're giving up nothing and getting an all star closer

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 10:49 AM
Looks like we're giving up nothing and getting an all star closer

Have to see the other two guys in the deal before we can be sure.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 10:49 AM
It didn't come out the way I meant. I meant 3 for $18 is what I would pay, but his agent wouldn't bite. Still, legitimate in the NL Central and AL East are two different things.

3 years for $30M, that seems unlikely. They would have been OK giving papelbon that money for 3 years when his deal was up, but this guy? With his propensity to put on weight, and walk too many guys? Nah.

It wouldnt be the first time the Sox told a player to lose weight. I believe the $10m mark is their ceiling to pay a closer that's why I mentioned that amount. When you ask a player to give up 1. any of his arbitration years and or 2. wait on Free Agency he generally expects to be compensated, so the 3/30 +/- is a possibility.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 10:56 AM
Porcello can't break a pane of glass, so perhaps an arm capable of innings, but I don't see him as any improvement over Morales, certainly not enough to be trading 3 guys to get him for one year.

Well it would be for more than 1 year and he's still developing. His Scouting report lists him as a top of the rotation Starter. The Sox love getting guys that are on the cusp of being big time as they did when they acquired Pedro Martinez. Not that Porcello is Pedro but he has a big upside. We dont need the players I listed, we DO need another arm for this year. Like I listed on another post, getting him for this year, having Barnes and Webster for '14, Owens for '15 would be huge, especially when Lester, Buch.,& Dempster may all be gone.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 10:58 AM
Lester's problems can largely be laid to the feet of:

1. Salty
2. Two inferior pitching coaches in a row
3. His own overly perfectionistic personality

Even in his worst year last year he had 3 very good/good months. There is nothing wrong with his arm. He needs a pitching coach he trusts that will push the right buttons.

Besides Seattle has no interest in a guy like Lester with two years of control and a good sized salary and Ellsbury who has but one year of control.

Bailey has to rebuild his value before he's going to draw much interest.

Keep in mind... King Felix has the same length of contract as Lester. I just listed Felix as an example.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 11:08 AM
Well it would be for more than 1 year and he's still developing. His Scouting report lists him as a top of the rotation Starter. The Sox love getting guys that are on the cusp of being big time as they did when they acquired Pedro Martinez. Not that Porcello is Pedro but he has a big upside. We dont need the players I listed, we DO need another arm for this year. Like I listed on another post, getting him for this year, having Barnes and Webster for '14, Owens for '15 would be huge, especially when Lester, Buch.,& Dempster may all be gone.

Porcello is young, but he's been up for 4 years as pretty much a full time starter. His last 3 years once he got figured out his ERA is just above replacement level. His ceiling is probably as a #3, and he hasn't made it there yet. If he had a stellar INF behind him he might realize some real potential here, but 2B/3B/SS as it sits now is just a smidge above average - albeit better then the Tigers last year.

Please sit down. Porcello is not, nor will ever be confused with Pedro Martinez. Even at the level I think Porcello is at why would they trade for a broken down closer a and couple of other guys. If he's a good as you think, then it would insane for such a move, unless the other guys are XB and Barnes?

We do not need another arm for this year. We need an arm better than our #4. I'm not convinced Porcello is it - at all.

FA means we can obtain more pitchers to fill in holes when we need them.

In 2013 this is my list of SP here:

Lester
Dempster
Lackey
Buchholz
Felix
Morales

Webster called up between July and Sep 1 to start.

At best Porcello could be the #4 here (with injuries), more likely the #5 or #6.

If we can get him for Bailey, Salty, Hazelbaker ? Sure. That's unlikely, and I' not coughing up a package that includes Owens, Bailey, and Workman for him - he doesn't bring enough.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 11:09 AM
Keep in mind... King Felix has the same length of contract as Lester. I just listed Felix as an example.

OK. I still see no reason to trade Lester when his trade value is easily at the lowest point it has been since he proved he was over his illness.

YazMan
12-24-2012, 02:16 PM
Does this trade free up Bailey to be packaged with Salty, Kalish and Barnes to take a shot at Stanton?

Bo Sox Fan
12-24-2012, 02:25 PM
I'd be leaning towards extending Lester RIGHT NOW while his value has dipped > trading him, then give Felix Hernandez a blank cheque through free agency in 2 years when this team is seasoned and ready to legitimately contend. How about a core of:

Felix Hernandez
Jon Lester
Jackie Bradley Jr.
Dustin Pedroia
Will Middlebrooks
Xandaer Boegarts
Ryan Lavarnway

Toss in another bat & arm through trade/FA or unexpected breakout star from the farm.

Celtic AL
12-24-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't see Garrett Jones as the 2nd player in the deal. I think it's a depth guy like Clint Robinson who is a young 1b man But made his career in the minors heres his stats http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=robins001cli

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 02:55 PM
Does this trade free up Bailey to be packaged with Salty, Kalish and Barnes to take a shot at Stanton?

Throw in XB and Owens and they might not laugh too loud.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 02:57 PM
I don't see Garrett Jones as the 2nd player in the deal. I think it's a depth guy like Clint Robinson who is a young 1b man But made his career in the minors heres his stats http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=robins001cli

Yes, it's unlikely unless we handed them something pretty good.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 03:05 PM
Porcello is young, but he's been up for 4 years as pretty much a full time starter. His last 3 years once he got figured out his ERA is just above replacement level. His ceiling is probably as a #3, and he hasn't made it there yet. If he had a stellar INF behind him he might realize some real potential here, but 2B/3B/SS as it sits now is just a smidge above average - albeit better then the Tigers last year.

Please sit down. Porcello is not, nor will ever be confused with Pedro Martinez. Even at the level I think Porcello is at why would they trade for a broken down closer a and couple of other guys. If he's a good as you think, then it would insane for such a move, unless the other guys are XB and Barnes?

We do not need another arm for this year. We need an arm better than our #4. I'm not convinced Porcello is it - at all.

FA means we can obtain more pitchers to fill in holes when we need them.

In 2013 this is my list of SP here:

Lester
Dempster
Lackey
Buchholz
Felix
Morales

Webster called up between July and Sep 1 to start.

At best Porcello could be the #4 here (with injuries), more likely the #5 or #6.

If we can get him for Bailey, Salty, Hazelbaker ? Sure. That's unlikely, and I' not coughing up a package that includes Owens, Bailey, and Workman for him - he doesn't bring enough.

I WASNT comparing Porcello to Pedro Martinez, not sure where you got that from. As for what or who Detroit needs/wants neither you or I know exactly what their looking for, so lets not assume we dont have what they may need. It is being said they would like relievers( preferrably back end) and a right handed Outfielder and possibly a SS that are ready now, so no prospects. Off the top of my head, just throwing names out there, the Sox have Iggy (SS) who cant hit but has 1 slick glove, Aceves, Bailey, Bard & Breslow as extra relievers, and Nava (switch hitter) to offer Detroit. Plus, we are said to be getting 1 more player with Hanrahan, IF it isnt Jones, as I would prefer, than perhaps that would be a player Detroit would have interest in too. We DO need another arm for this year, I dont know why you cant see that. Like I listed we have 2 pitchers who should be ready for next year and 1 the year after, ideally and to replace the guys we have who will be leaving, you want to have 1 prospect inserted every year and we have NONE for this year, Morales doesnt count he's an experiment as a starter and he isnt a young prospect. As for needing something better than a #4 or 5 that someone like Porcello would provide, YES we do need that BUT Ben doesnt see it that way and for 2 years now he's hoped that Lester and Buch would carry this team and they havent, nothing you or I can change as much as I would like to.
Oh and if Webster is called up in September we will be in trouble and I believe calling him up would be a huge mistake, especially since he's only in double A presently. The Sox dont believe in rushing pitchers to the majors.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 03:45 PM
I WASNT comparing Porcello to Pedro Martinez, not sure where you got that from.

From you in post #230: "The Sox love getting guys that are on the cusp of being big time as they did when they acquired Pedro Martinez.".

That's a comparison I am afraid. Porcello is not on the cusp of being big time. He's on the cusp of maybe being a league average ERA+ pitcher, in this his 5th year in 2013.


As for what or who Detroit needs/wants neither you or I know exactly what their looking for, so lets not assume we dont have what they may need. It is being said they would like relievers( preferrably back end) and a right handed Outfielder and possibly a SS that are ready now, so no prospects. Off the top of my head, just throwing names out there, the Sox have Iggy (SS) who cant hit but has 1 slick glove, Aceves, Bailey, Bard & Breslow as extra relievers, and Nava (switch hitter) to offer Detroit.

We are woefully short in tradeable OF'ers, in particular RHH ones. Nava's career slash as a RHH is a horrific: .191/.302/.318, he's also at best a replacement level player, scratch him.

Bailey is a good pitcher, when he can pitch. He's missed 6.5 of his last 14 months on the mound with injuries. Hardy a sure bet.

Iglesias would have to improve his career hitting 6x just to make it to replacement, he can't seriously be considered as an every day player until further notice.

So you see, you don't have to know what they want to see that we don't seem to have what it is said that they want.


Plus, we are said to be getting 1 more player with Hanrahan, If it isn't Jones, as I would prefer, than perhaps that would be a player Detroit would have interest in too. We DO need another arm for this year, I dont know why you cant see that.

Every team needs another arm, so trying to get via trade is going to be expensive. People here have been talking about two pitchers on the White Sox like they were practically ours for the price of Salty. So yes perhaps I'm getting a bit impatient with ideas that don't seem to have any legs.

I'd love Jones too, but it's unlikely. It's also unlikely we are getting any linchpin player to deal for a prospective #4 SP.


Like I listed we have 2 pitchers who should be ready for next year and 1 the year after

We all know the names, and I'd shocked if all three were viable pitchers in MLB. Best case is probably a pen guy and a starter.


ideally and to replace the guys we have who will be leaving, you want to have 1 prospect inserted every year and we have NONE for this year

Ideally we'd win the WS every year....


Morales doesn't count he's an experiment as a starter and he isnt a young prospect.

So what? Since when do players have to fit a certain mold to "count". Nava wouldn't seem to count under that mind set, or the 2012 NL Cy Young winner for that matter. Morales started his first game in 2007, and has 24 games started overall, and has done better as a starter than a reliever. He's more then good enough to be the #6 SP/long man and filling in as a #5 if someone goes down.


As for needing something better than a #4 or 5 that someone like Porcello would provide

Porcello is **** his past 3 years carrying bogus ERA+ of: 85, 87, 92.

For chump change I'd be happy to have him, for what he is likely to cost, NFW.


YES we do need that BUT Ben doesn't see it that way and for 2 years now he's hoped that Lester and Buch would carry this team and they haven't, nothing you or I can change as much as I would like to.

Two screwed up years with two screwed up pitching coaches, a foul defensive catcher (Salty), playing in front of replacement level players in many cases. I wouldn't count them out because of that. You can not count on Buchholz due to his frame - I don't.


Oh and if Webster is called up in September we will be in trouble and I believe calling him up would be a huge mistake, especially since he's only in double A presently. The Sox don't believe in rushing pitchers to the majors.

Maybe you don't know, but IMO this team is not a playoff team, so I don't care if we only win 81 games, I don't want specs dealt for journeyman at this point. This team has cash in hand thanks to LAD and that's allowed a lot of short term moves to be made.

On September 1st, rosters expand, so if we are in or out of it, Webster will be up, or Barnes, or Rubby. Doesn't really matter which as long as none are dealt for now.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 03:48 PM
Farrell really likes Aceves supposedly. His trade value is down, between the Sox being able to tame him and him building his value through performance, I can't see any reason they should deal him at 40 cents on the dollar right now.

Im not sure why you believe Aceves value is anything but high. Did he disrespect his manager? yes but can the guy pitch and often? Yes.
A pitcher like Aceves, who can literally take the ball Everyday, is invaluable. The Only reason(s) I would want to trade him is 1. because he did disrespect his manager in front of teammates and he does need to be made an example of and 2. because he may have great value in a trade that would bring us another Starting pitcher.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 03:51 PM
Im not sure why you believe Aceves value is anything but high. Did he disrespect his manager? yes but can the guy pitch and often? Yes.

He's got prior episodes of violent and crazy behavior. If you don't think a GM talking trade about him wouldn't try to discount him over that stuff I have bridge to sell.


A pitcher like Aceves, who can literally take the ball Everyday, is invaluable.

I know, which is why I don't want to deal him, unless the offer is very good.


The Only reason(s) I would want to trade him is 1. because he did disrespect his manager in front of teammates and he does need to be made an example of and 2. because he may have great value in a trade that would bring us another Starting pitcher.

Than we are not that differently disposed on him.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 03:53 PM
OK. I still see no reason to trade Lester when his trade value is easily at the lowest point it has been since he proved he was over his illness.

Yes his value has decreased but there is 1 funny thing about Lefty pitchers, they can be mediocre or even worse and their value will Always be higher than a right handed pitcher. Its odd but true. I read an article not that long ago that said almost every team in baseball would jump at the chance to own Lester or for that matter any decent left handed pitcher and that they would sacrife more just to have one. Look at Lariano, he has been horrible of late but yet he still signed a 2 year deal for $7m per. Lester has more value than you would think, teams can see past 1 bad season.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Does this trade free up Bailey to be packaged with Salty, Kalish and Barnes to take a shot at Stanton?

I dont see Barnes going anywhere and if they did decide to part with 1 pitching prospect it would be Webster before Barnes and it would be for a SP not an OF.

willyssox
12-24-2012, 04:12 PM
Here's a copy of an article that's saying basically what I said>

Hanrahan's role in Boston

9:47AM ET


Joel Hanrahan | Pirates

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The Boston Red Sox had been chasing after Pirates closer Joel Hanrahan last week, and the club reportedly has its man, per ESPN Insider Jim Bowden.

The deal has not been officially completed, but reports have indicated that Hanrahan and perhaps another player would be heading to Boston, while the Pirates would get four players on their end, including outfielder/first baseman Jerry Sands and pitching prospect Stolmy Pimentel.

Once everything is finalized, Hanrahan would become the Red Sox's closer. Andrew Bailey, who was acquired this time last year to be the team's ninth-inning solution, has become so injury-prone that it's tricky to rely on him. It is possible, though, that Bailey could become trade bait, as he's been extremely effective -- when healthy -- and a team in need of a quality bullpen arm with the upside of a stopper, like the Detroit Tigers or New York Mets, could come calling while the asking price is down.

While likely a coincidence, it is worth pointing out that since taking over a little more than a year ago, Boston GM Ben Cherington has now made three separate moves to acquire a ninth-inning option. The first was trading shortstop Jed Lowrie (with pitcher Kyle Weiland) for Mark Melancon, and the second was getting Bailey and outfielder Ryan Sweeney for the price of outfielder Josh Reddick (and prospects Miles Head and Raul Alcantara). Red Sox fans have to be hoping the third time's the charm.

- Jason Catania

And here's a Porcello article>


Is Porcello as good as gone?

11:51AM ET


Rick Porcello | Tigers

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The Detroit Tigers are believed to have had conversations with a number of clubs regarding right-hander Rick Porcello, according to reports. With a few moves last week, however, the Tigers' potential trade partners may have been altered.

The Angels picked up Jason Vargas from Seattle, and the Cubs signed both Carlos Villanueva and Edwin Jackson -- so both clubs could be out on Porcello now.

The Mariners may be in play, as could the Pirates, Rockies and Padres, all of whom have been mentioned as possible fits. Jon Morosi of FOXSports.com noted that the Orioles have been in contact with Detroit, too, although the Baltimore Sun's Eduardo Encina doesn't necessarily see a match involving a Porcello-for-J.J. Hardy possibility.

The Tigers still have a need in their bullpen, particularly at the back end, so if Porcello is going to be traded, it would make sense for GM Dave Dombrowski to target a high-leverage reliever who could close, in case Bruce Rondon -- a rookie with shaky control and no experience in the majors -- isn't able to handle the role.

- Jason A. Churchill and Jason Catania

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 05:00 PM
Yes his value has decreased but there is 1 funny thing about Lefty pitchers, they can be mediocre or even worse and their value will Always be higher than a right handed pitcher. Its odd but true.

Not at all, as a lefty myself back well before most here were born and father of 1 lefty in D2 I know all too well the excitement of just about any scout or manager that gets a shot at a lefty.


I read an article not that long ago that said almost every team in baseball would jump at the chance to own Lester or for that matter any decent left handed pitcher and that they would sacrife more just to have one. Look at Lariano, he has been horrible of late but yet he still signed a 2 year deal for $7m per. Lester has more value than you would think, teams can see past 1 bad season.

I know, but once he's gone, I doubt Felix can fill his cleats.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 05:01 PM
I dont see Barnes going anywhere and if they did decide to part with 1 pitching prospect it would be Webster before Barnes and it would be for a SP not an OF.

I read someplace that Barnes is being seen as a lesser spec than Webster and Rubby, and may fall below Owens soon. Such is the life of specs and their fans often times.

bagwell368
12-24-2012, 05:09 PM
Here's a copy of an article that's saying basically what I said

Check back the past few days, most of the Sr. folks here had this figured out much of this already.


While likely a coincidence, it is worth pointing out that since taking over a little more than a year ago, Boston GM Ben Cherington has now made three separate moves to acquire a ninth-inning option. The first was trading shortstop Jed Lowrie (with pitcher Kyle Weiland) for Mark Melancon, and the second was getting Bailey and outfielder Ryan Sweeney for the price of outfielder Josh Reddick (and prospects Miles Head and Raul Alcantara). Red Sox fans have to be hoping the third time's the charm.


I dispute this claim. There is no way Melancon was seen as the closer by the Sox when the deal was made.


The Detroit Tigers are believed to have had conversations with a number of clubs regarding right-hander Rick Porcello, according to reports. With a few moves last week, however, the Tigers' potential trade partners may have been altered.

I never disputed the Tigers want to deal Porcello, why not? He's at best a #5 SP so far. In a game hungry for SP's there is no shortage of teams with hopes that they can get more out of him.

I notice the Sox were not mentioned, but BC is listening to everyone about everything - why not? Porcello could be interesting in Fenway, but, not for anything real key in terms of specs - at least IMO.

papipapsmanny
12-24-2012, 05:18 PM
I read someplace that Barnes is being seen as a lesser spec than Webster and Rubby, and may fall below Owens soon. Such is the life of specs and their fans often times.

im not seeing that, if true than that is only a good thing, because everyone from Law, to BA, to Fangraphs keeps saying he is a very good pitching prospect, just not an ace potential.

Many believe he could be a very good number 2

Rubby apparently has ace stuff, I have never seen it.

Webster is a very good spec himself. This is why I am excited for our farm this year. Between 3 guys we have a potential ace and two potential number 2s.

Then Owens who is a wild card at the moment

homie564
12-24-2012, 05:46 PM
I read someplace that Barnes is being seen as a lesser spec than Webster and Rubby, and may fall below Owens soon. Such is the life of specs and their fans often times.

I don't see how. Barnes was pretty filthy last year wasn't he?