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View Full Version : Transformation of the PG position



Sactown
12-20-2012, 04:00 PM
The PG position over the last few years seems to have transformed to a more scoring/physical oriented position, the transformation seems to have started with Derrick Rose and as each year passes more and more physically gifted PG's seem to be entering the league. AS of right now we have,

D-Rose - explosive and big
John Wall- explosive
Tyreke Evans a 6'6 guard who is 220 LB's
Jrue Holiday- 6'4
Russel Westbrook-most explosive guard in the league
Eric Bledsoe-Explosive

And I'm sure I'm missing quite a few more Pg's, How is this transformation affecting the league, and (what has it done to)/(is it going to do to) the SG position? Just interested in hearing your thoughts.

TopsyTurvy
12-20-2012, 04:16 PM
The rule changes have made these types of players virtually unstoppable, but it provides all the highlights.

JasonJohnHorn
12-20-2012, 06:04 PM
I wouldn't say that this is a change. The league has always had PGs who can score, and this goes back to the Big O who dropped 30 a game and could still hand out 10 assists while doing that.

Iverson was also a scoring PG (though he played SG for several seasons as well). Magic was a big PG, as was Penny. And Payton

There are always teams in the league with scoring PGs. Marbruy. Francis. It's just that these teams don't generally do well.

D-Rose and Westbrook have seen some success so far, but neither has won it all yet. Westbrook has a leg up on Rose though as he has Durant and Martin.... Rose doesn't have any scoring options as good as those two.

I wouldn't say this is a trend. You still have many traditional PGs (CP3, Rondo, Nash) on teams that are doing well, and you also have some non-traditional ball handlers like LBJ (and Jordan and Pippen before him) who are doing well.

The success of he triangle offense has challenged the way people have looked at running plays. As have players like Webber and Duncan, and can run plays from the post.

No one style is better than another. We saw the Lakers win 5 rings since 00 without running with a traditional PG. The Spurs have won 4 since 99 and have run with a traditional PG. The Heat won once with a traditional PG, and once without a traditional PG. The Pistons won with a traditional PG.

The question is: When was the last time a score-first PG won an NBA title? Perhaps the Lakers with West/Goodrich or the Bucks with The Big O, though all those guys still did a great job distributing the ball.

And mentioning John Wall with Westbrook and Rose is a laugh... have you seen that guys shooting percentage? If he doesn't change that soon, he will be playing in China while guys who were drafted after him (Evans, Monroe, DMC and Favours) will still be playing in the NBA. And his assist-to-turnover ration isn't anythign to write home about, even if he is good at drawing fouls.

Sactown
12-20-2012, 06:18 PM
I wouldn't say that this is a change. The league has always had PGs who can score, and this goes back to the Big O who dropped 30 a game and could still hand out 10 assists while doing that.

Iverson was also a scoring PG (though he played SG for several seasons as well). Magic was a big PG, as was Penny. And Payton

There are always teams in the league with scoring PGs. Marbruy. Francis. It's just that these teams don't generally do well.

D-Rose and Westbrook have seen some success so far, but neither has won it all yet. Westbrook has a leg up on Rose though as he has Durant and Martin.... Rose doesn't have any scoring options as good as those two.

I wouldn't say this is a trend. You still have many traditional PGs (CP3, Rondo, Nash) on teams that are doing well, and you also have some non-traditional ball handlers like LBJ (and Jordan and Pippen before him) who are doing well.

The success of he triangle offense has challenged the way people have looked at running plays. As have players like Webber and Duncan, and can run plays from the post.

No one style is better than another. We saw the Lakers win 5 rings since 00 without running with a traditional PG. The Spurs have won 4 since 99 and have run with a traditional PG. The Heat won once with a traditional PG, and once without a traditional PG. The Pistons won with a traditional PG.

The question is: When was the last time a score-first PG won an NBA title? Perhaps the Lakers with West/Goodrich or the Bucks with The Big O, though all those guys still did a great job distributing the ball.

And mentioning John Wall with Westbrook and Rose is a laugh... have you seen that guys shooting percentage? If he doesn't change that soon, he will be playing in China while guys who were drafted after him (Evans, Monroe, DMC and Favours) will still be playing in the NBA. And his assist-to-turnover ration isn't anythign to write home about, even if he is good at drawing fouls.

I was talking more about the physicality of the PG position, and Wall has had very little help in his career and has been in a very poor situation, I'd like to see what he can do with more talent, but there's no doubt he's one of the more explosive PG's in the game.

Alayla
12-20-2012, 08:43 PM
I wouldn't say that this is a change. The league has always had PGs who can score, and this goes back to the Big O who dropped 30 a game and could still hand out 10 assists while doing that.

Iverson was also a scoring PG (though he played SG for several seasons as well). Magic was a big PG, as was Penny. And Payton

There are always teams in the league with scoring PGs. Marbruy. Francis. It's just that these teams don't generally do well.

D-Rose and Westbrook have seen some success so far, but neither has won it all yet. Westbrook has a leg up on Rose though as he has Durant and Martin.... Rose doesn't have any scoring options as good as those two.

I wouldn't say this is a trend. You still have many traditional PGs (CP3, Rondo, Nash) on teams that are doing well, and you also have some non-traditional ball handlers like LBJ (and Jordan and Pippen before him) who are doing well.

The success of he triangle offense has challenged the way people have looked at running plays. As have players like Webber and Duncan, and can run plays from the post.

No one style is better than another. We saw the Lakers win 5 rings since 00 without running with a traditional PG. The Spurs have won 4 since 99 and have run with a traditional PG. The Heat won once with a traditional PG, and once without a traditional PG. The Pistons won with a traditional PG.

The question is: When was the last time a score-first PG won an NBA title? Perhaps the Lakers with West/Goodrich or the Bucks with The Big O, though all those guys still did a great job distributing the ball.

And mentioning John Wall with Westbrook and Rose is a laugh... have you seen that guys shooting percentage? If he doesn't change that soon, he will be playing in China while guys who were drafted after him (Turner (fixed), Monroe, DMC and Favours) will still be playing in the NBA. And his assist-to-turnover ration isn't anythign to write home about, even if he is good at drawing fouls.

This is all well and good but hey im going to go off topic and ask if the kick *** and chew bubble gum thing was intended as a duke nukem reference if so props

ManRam
12-20-2012, 08:46 PM
I think we need to stop pretending that there is a set mold that PGs have to fill to help their teams. It all depends on the team. The notion of a "true" PG being more valuable than these comboish PGs is silly.

Mr.SmackYoMama
12-20-2012, 09:07 PM
This is all well and good but hey im going to go off topic and ask if the kick *** and chew bubble gum thing was intended as a duke nukem reference if so props

I think it's a reference to an Ultimate Fighter that said it on a TV show.

killbumdeluxe13
12-20-2012, 09:26 PM
I think it's the evolution of the game. It's more fast paced, PG has the ball in his hands to start each possession. Makes sense that you want your PG then to be one of the better more physically gifted athletes on the court.

dtmagnet
12-20-2012, 09:29 PM
I think it's a reference to an Ultimate Fighter that said it on a TV show.

Its from Duke Nukem.

SoFreshNsoClean
12-21-2012, 03:44 AM
The rule changes have made these types of players virtually unstoppable

This is my beef with it

Kashmir13579
12-21-2012, 04:34 AM
The transformation started long before Derrick Rose.

JEDean89
12-21-2012, 05:31 AM
so this began really with the league preventing handchecking so pg's can penetrate without getting knocked to the floor every time. this has allowed pg's who can score to flourish in the league. if we are talking scoring pg's the list is quite long

westbrook, rose are right at the top but you don't have to be too big to score. ty lawson is like 5' 10 and he scores well (though not great to start the season, has played better in december). i think we will continue to see this influx of pgs because the pool of athletic and talented players is so much bigger at the 6ft to 6 3" range. pretty much every team right now has a good pg and some have 2.

whats changing about the league is the pace of the game. it used to be that if you had size at your position it was an advantage but that's no longer the case. size is now only an advantage as long as you have athleticism to match (except of course, in a few rare exceptions). i think the players are gonna have a hard time staying in the league for 15+ years. you see guys like wade who are paying the price for attacking the rim so hard for so long. still the nba is a lot of fun to watch these days and these scoring guards are a lot of fun to watch too.