PDA

View Full Version : where would Kobe be IF...



AWC713
12-19-2012, 06:34 PM
He never forced the trade on draft-day from the Hornets to the Lakers?

Would people think he's AS good AS he's currently viewed? would he be viewed as a less great player? I personally think he would, because there's no way he gets anywhere near 5 titles in Charlotte, and that's ultimately what people care about.

However, a young Kobe + Baron Davis backcourt would be.........nasty

Anyways, discuss. What would Kobe's legacy be if he played it out w/ the Hornets? Is he just a T-mac or Vince Carter-type player?

nickdymez
12-19-2012, 06:34 PM
Ooooooh nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

Raps18-19 Champ
12-19-2012, 06:35 PM
He'd probably have less rings if he didn't get someone of the same caliber as Shaq.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-19-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm convinced. Kobe could be retired in 2025 and we will still have Kobe threads in the NBA FOrum for decades to come. The guy is that ingrained in the minds of his supporters and his haters.

Avenged
12-19-2012, 06:36 PM
You are assuming he stays a Hornet for the remainder of his career. Kobe wanted out of the Lakers as soon as things weren't going his way. I would think he would have left the Hornets as soon as he got the chance if they weren't competing for championship... especially since he didn't want to play there.

ManRam
12-19-2012, 06:38 PM
Well, if the Hornets didn't have the talent to win, he wouldn't be there now. If they somehow managed to surround him with the talent he had in LA, maybe he'd be there still.

Who knows? I'd imagine the limelight would have been too little. He truly was blessed with where he ended up.

AWC713
12-19-2012, 06:38 PM
I'm convinced. Kobe could be retired in 2025 and we will still have Kobe threads in the NBA FOrum for decades to come. The guy is that ingrained in the minds of his supporters and his haters.

im not saying im a hater or supporter. its an interesting topic. kobe is arguably a top 10 player of all-time, and i believe he's the only player of such stature TO FORCE A TRADE ON DRAFT DAY.

so, why not speculate what would have happened if he didnt force the trade?

how would the lakers have fared if they kept the frontcourt of Shaq and Vlade Divac?

seikou8
12-19-2012, 06:41 PM
:laugh2::badidea::horse::horse::horse::horse::hors e::horse::horse::horse::horse::horse:

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-19-2012, 06:41 PM
im not saying im a hater or supporter. its an interesting topic. kobe is arguably a top 10 player of all-time, and i believe he's the only player of such stature TO FORCE A TRADE ON DRAFT DAY.

so, why not speculate what would have happened if he didnt force the trade?

how would the lakers have fared if they kept the frontcourt of Shaq and Vlade Divac?

Because this thread paves the way for certain Kobe haters to come in and spew their verbal diarrhea all over PSD.

heyman321
12-19-2012, 06:42 PM
He's overrated, T-Mac is better.

-Chronz

ManRam
12-19-2012, 06:44 PM
Because this thread paves the way for certain Kobe haters to come in and spew their verbal diarrhea all over PSD.

And Kobe fans to treat minor and factual criticism like they're spitting on their mother's graves ;)


We like to speculate. Obviously PSD loves Kobe. Kobe is an amazingly unique player. There's a reason why people like to talk about him so much. :shrug:

ManRam
12-19-2012, 06:45 PM
He's overrated, T-Mac is better.

-Chronz

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Chronz never said that.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-19-2012, 06:50 PM
And Kobe fans to treat minor and factual criticism like they're spitting on their mother's graves ;)


We like to speculate. Obviously PSD loves Kobe. Kobe is an amazingly unique player. There's a reason why people like to talk about him so much. :shrug:

There's people who analytically may talk opposed to certain things about Kobe like you, Chronz and Hawkeye.


And then there's well.....you know... :rolleyes:

Tony Perkis
12-19-2012, 07:04 PM
Another Kobe Thread?

MetroMan
12-19-2012, 07:08 PM
He would have scored a lot and than either demand a trade or sign as a free agent.

/thread

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-19-2012, 07:08 PM
im not saying im a hater or supporter. its an interesting topic. kobe is arguably a top 10 player of all-time, and i believe he's the only player of such stature TO FORCE A TRADE ON DRAFT DAY.

so, why not speculate what would have happened if he didnt force the trade?

how would the lakers have fared if they kept the frontcourt of Shaq and Vlade Divac?

It's hard to say if we could even get Shaq if we didn't trade Divac for Kobe.

It's all in the timeline.

Jerry West first made the trade of Vlade to Hornets for Kobe.

Then he shipped George Lynch and Anthony Peeler to Toronto as salary dumps for future 2nd round picks.

Then and only then did the Lakers have the big offer for Shaq that he couldn't refuse.


So in order to get Shaq, Vlade had to go for SOMEONE. Question is, who at that time would have been willing to take on Vlade other than the Hornets.


So that's why it's a little tough for me to speculate here.

sp1derm00
12-19-2012, 07:23 PM
Kobe would probably have been regarded as the most selfish ballhog in NBA history, but also one of the greatest scorers in NBA history.

I would imagine he would have averaged over 30PPG for his career. He would have been given the green light from day 1 to score as much as he wanted instead of having to ride the bench.

Titles? Maybe 2-3 over the course of his 17 year career. It's hard to argue that he wouldn't win titles considering all it took was for him to be paired with an all-star of Pau's caliber. I'm sure the Hornets would have given him some talent to work with over time.

GunFactor187
12-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Kind of interesting to see what the potential/impact of a Muggsy/Kobe/Grandmama trio would have had on the league.

JasonJohnHorn
12-19-2012, 07:32 PM
He didn't force a trade. LAL and the Hornets had the trade worked out before the draft. Charlotte drafted the players the Lakers wanted.


That said, he would not have won anywhere near five titles (if any) and the Lakers still would have won no less than three titles during the Shaq era, which may have been extended since Shaq wouldn't have been forced out and the Lakers may have been able to win more. Who knows.

Kobe would have likely pulled a McGrady, signed with some other team, then when they didn't win right away demand a trade to another team, burn some more bridges and end up somewhere else. And he would certainyl not be as highly regarded as he is today.

sep11ie
12-19-2012, 07:33 PM
Kobe plays for the Lakers?

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-19-2012, 07:43 PM
Kobe stats would be a lot different maybe 30-6-6 for his career instead of his 25-5-5 average.... He would have probably only 2-3 championships though IMO

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-19-2012, 07:49 PM
He didn't force a trade. LAL and the Hornets had the trade worked out before the draft. Charlotte drafted the players the Lakers wanted.


That said, he would not have won anywhere near five titles (if any) and the Lakers still would have won no less than three titles during the Shaq era, which may have been extended since Shaq wouldn't have been forced out and the Lakers may have been able to win more. Who knows.

Kobe would have likely pulled a McGrady, signed with some other team, then when they didn't win right away demand a trade to another team, burn some more bridges and end up somewhere else. And he would certainyl not be as highly regarded as he is today.

Lakers would have won 3 without Kobe? Really so Shaq alone would have won LA 3 titles lol please child, they wouldn't have won any without each other!

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-19-2012, 08:06 PM
Kobe plays for the Lakers?

Nope, he plays for #*********. :smoking:

dalton749
12-19-2012, 08:09 PM
pulls a lebron and leaves, doesnt see playoffs for his first 4 years. doesnt develop the same because hes missing all the all stars and hofs around him. eventually wins 1 ring as finals mvp but only averages 21 6 4 ish

AIRMAR72
12-19-2012, 08:13 PM
no rings. no finals MVP. no regular season MVP. no 1st team defense. 5-6 allstar appreance.397FG% FOR HIS CAREER finish after 12yrs of service

Andrew32
12-19-2012, 08:15 PM
He would probably put up slightly greater raw stats then he did with Shaq but on significantly worse efficiency and he'd be noticeably worse defensively.

Assuming he still develops into the same player eventually and he doesn't break down earlier without the help of another big name star to carry the load then he could theoretically contend for a title or two in the late 00's if given a Top 3 supporting cast.

Would he get that in NO? Doubt it.

Hard to predict what would happen but I'd say he probably doesn't win any titles in such a small market and his stats alone wouldn't get higher then Top 15-25 on All-Time lists.

JasonJohnHorn
12-19-2012, 09:06 PM
Lakers would have won 3 without Kobe? Really so Shaq alone would have won LA 3 titles lol please child, they wouldn't have won any without each other!

Last time I checked, there was more than two players on that Lakers roster, and I think you underrate Shaq.

Firstly, if not a trade for Kobe, the Lakers would have still had Divac, and Eddie Jones and Nick Van Excel, and Horry and Fox, and Fisher and likely still would have gotten AC Green back and Horace Grant.

Shaq was an amazingly dominant player and the Lakers still would have had pieces to make moves to fill out the roster.

Jeez... even when you give the Lakers credit Lakers fans have jump down your back... lol

kblo247
12-19-2012, 10:13 PM
A Net.

It isn't like the Hornets picked Kobe because eh liked him, they picked him because West admittedly pulled every strong he could to get him with Buss blessing after watching him work out. And it was West who he made a deal with to tell the Nets he would rather go overseas than play for him, so that the Hornets would select him for a prearranged deal with Vlade Divac.

The hornets didnt want Kobe. The Nets did. Kobe was left Laker struck after talking to Jerry West and Jerry buss, being taken out on the town in a Lexus, and the like. It is well documented by both Kobe and West how that happened, as Kobe openly said before the meeting he was okay with being a Sixer, Bull, or Knick

Hawkeye15
12-19-2012, 10:15 PM
well, he would have left the Hornets early. Probably not the same legacy. But why do we care about this?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-19-2012, 10:16 PM
I'm convinced. Kobe could be retired in 2025 and we will still have Kobe threads in the NBA FOrum for decades to come. The guy is that ingrained in the minds of his supporters and his haters.

To be fair, as long as JB is still here we'll still get dumb/weird hypothetical threads about former stars:laugh2:

ManRam
12-19-2012, 10:17 PM
There's people who analytically may talk opposed to certain things about Kobe like you, Chronz and Hawkeye.


And then there's well.....you know... :rolleyes:

Ah. Kind words! I appreciate it.


I'm working so hard to enjoy Kobe like I did in middle school (god I'm old). He's to unique to waste my life not enjoying him

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-19-2012, 10:28 PM
:facepalm:
no rings. no finals MVP. no regular season MVP. no 1st team defense. 5-6 allstar appreance.397FG% FOR HIS CAREER finish after 12yrs of service

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-19-2012, 10:31 PM
Last time I checked, there was more than two players on that Lakers roster, and I think you underrate Shaq.

Firstly, if not a trade for Kobe, the Lakers would have still had Divac, and Eddie Jones and Nick Van Excel, and Horry and Fox, and Fisher and likely still would have gotten AC Green back and Horace Grant.

Shaq was an amazingly dominant player and the Lakers still would have had pieces to make moves to fill out the roster.

Jeez... even when you give the Lakers credit Lakers fans have jump down your back... lol


didn't eddie jones and van exel play like 2 years with shaq? where did that get them? lol some people here

b@llhog24
12-19-2012, 10:32 PM
Top 15-20 player.

Andrew32
12-19-2012, 10:53 PM
didn't eddie jones and van exel play like 2 years with shaq? where did that get them? lol some people here

Well they did make the WCFinals...

Eddie and more specifically Van Exel were massive chokers though so I doubt Shaq wins with them.

If Lakers manage to pull in a guy like Ray Allen, Carter or some other decent All-Star wing that wont choke in the playoffs then Shaq still wins his 3 titles if not more since they won't end up beefing.

Andrew32
12-19-2012, 10:55 PM
He would have probably only 2-3 championships though IMO
Doubtful.
Kobe "barely" pulled off 2 titles in the late 00's despite having multiple years with a Top 2 supporting cast.

A small market team is not gonna be able to afford Gasol, Odom, Artest, Bynum etc...
Not to mention Phil Jackson wouldn't be coaching.

Saying they win even 2 titles let alone 3 is a big if.
He could easily end up winning zero.

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-20-2012, 02:04 AM
Doubtful.
Kobe "barely" pulled off 2 titles in the late 00's despite having multiple years with a Top 2 supporting cast.

A small market team is not gonna be able to afford Gasol, Odom, Artest, Bynum etc...
Not to mention Phil Jackson wouldn't be coaching.

Saying they win even 2 titles let alone 3 is a big if.
He could easily end up winning zero.

What are u talking about? Only one 2 when he has a top 2 supporting cast multiple years? Ofcourse if by multiple times you mean 3 then yes they made it to the finals 3 straight years and won 2... And lol at ur comment saying if u add Allen or a all-star with Shaq and they still win 3 :facepalm:

amos1er
12-20-2012, 02:23 AM
Top 15-20 player.

And where do you rank Lebron?

Andrew32
12-20-2012, 02:27 AM
And lol at ur comment saying if u add Allen or a all-star with Shaq and they still win 3 :facepalm:
Not saying it is a sure thing but I don't think Kobe was that special in 00 or 02.
He could have been replaced by a few different guards those years and the Lakers may have still won.

Also Ray Allen in 01 was freakin dominate.
You need to google his stats.

He could have replaced Kobe that year.

Kobe was a great player in the early 00's but he didn't really separate himself from some other high level guards.

b@llhog24
12-20-2012, 02:33 AM
And where do you rank Lebron?

Anywhere between the top 10 and 16 is acceptable in my eyes.

MickeyMgl
12-20-2012, 02:41 AM
Probably less winning. Definitely more scoring.

dh144498
12-20-2012, 11:08 AM
He never forced the trade on draft-day from the Hornets to the Lakers?

Would people think he's AS good AS he's currently viewed? would he be viewed as a less great player? I personally think he would, because there's no way he gets anywhere near 5 titles in Charlotte, and that's ultimately what people care about.

However, a young Kobe + Baron Davis backcourt would be.........nasty

Anyways, discuss. What would Kobe's legacy be if he played it out w/ the Hornets? Is he just a T-mac or Vince Carter-type player?

he would still have 5 championships with the Lakers since he didn't force a trade on draft day anyway.

dh144498
12-20-2012, 11:10 AM
Doubtful.
Kobe "barely" pulled off 2 titles in the late 00's despite having multiple years with a Top 2 supporting cast.

A small market team is not gonna be able to afford Gasol, Odom, Artest, Bynum etc...
Not to mention Phil Jackson wouldn't be coaching.

Saying they win even 2 titles let alone 3 is a big if.
He could easily end up winning zero.

he only had 1 year with a top 2 supporting and that was 2010. Revisionist history. :rolleyes:

sep11ie
12-20-2012, 12:03 PM
Nope, he plays for #*********. :smoking:

Ahh, figures. No wonder he has empty stats... #TeamGram LIVES!

JiffyMix88
12-20-2012, 12:16 PM
There's people who analytically may talk opposed to certain things about Kobe like you, Chronz and Hawkeye.


And then there's well.....you know... :rolleyes:

You ever thought about just not clicking on a Kobe thread yourself?

bucketss
12-20-2012, 12:18 PM
he would have bolted after his contract was done than signed with the lakers to team up with shaq.

majmarcus
12-20-2012, 12:48 PM
well, he would have left the Hornets early. Probably not the same legacy. But why do we care about this?

^^^^ this this and this...the discussion is so damn meaningless

ZHawk1123
12-20-2012, 12:56 PM
PG: Kenny Anderson
SG: Kobe Bryant
SF: Larry Johnson
PF: Matt Geiger
C: Robert Parrish

6th man: Kendall Gill
Bench: Dell Curry
Bench: George Zidek

Ships for days

Tysons_Beard
12-20-2012, 12:58 PM
anyone got a time travel machine?

Stinkyoutsider
12-20-2012, 02:10 PM
I think Kobe would have still been as good as he is now. This guy had the tools to be great including a hunger and desire to be the best. And, he looked up to Michael Jordan and wanted to be like him in every way including working the hardest and having that killer instinct.

Maybe he would have left the Hornets after a long while if the team failed to compete for a title but if he had the same mindset as a guy like Kevin Garnett, he would have hung around long enough to give the Hornets a fair shot at putting together a team.

LongWayFromHome
12-20-2012, 03:38 PM
The Hornets probably wouldn't have moved to N.O.

And then everything that has happened in the NBA since then would be different due to butterfly effect.

ldawg
12-20-2012, 03:52 PM
This is stupid who the hell knows, maybe injured, Sign on Bulls and avg 38ppg, in china with tmac, Ny or something i dont know man. If i knew i would not be on here guessing.