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View Full Version : The Garnett Trade Revisited



JasonJohnHorn
12-18-2012, 03:00 PM
When McHale ended up trading Kevin Garnett to the Celtics, there were many fans bemoaning that McHale 'gave him away' to the Celtics because he had ties with the team from his playing days. In hindsight, though McHale did lose his job not too long after this trade, I think McHale came away from the trade with a good haul.

In Garnett's post-Minny days, he has failed to average a double-double even once (though his defence is the most important thing Garnett brings to the table). Every season averge Garnett has posted in Boston is below his career averages, so I think it's fair to say that McHale traded him at the right time. But what did he get in return?

Al Jefferson was the centerpiece of the deal of course. He has out-scored and out rebounded Garnett EVERY season since the trade and has recorded mroe blocks each season (though Garnett's FG% is better and he got more steals and assists). If this was a straigh up trade, I'd say Minny would have made out fairly well with the deal (if they had bothered to keep Jefferson). They also got Theo Ratliff in the deal (a quality role palyer and great shot blocker, though again Minny did not hang onto him), Gerald Green (filler) and Ryan Gomes (who was a quality starter for Minny for a couple of seasons). They also had their pick of PGs from Boston (from what I read) and they opted for Teflair over Rondo (had they picked Rondo they might have been better off, but Telfair's stock was still high and GMs were optimistic about his 'potential'). Minny also came away with two first round picks, one of which turned out to be Johnny Flynn, but could have been Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday or Ty Lawson if they'd played theri cards right, and the other could have be DuJuan Blair.

I think McHale actually came away with a lot of great pieces from the trade, but the T-Wolves just made ill use of the draft picks they got, and ended up trading Jefferson, the most talented player they recieved in the trade, and all they got back in return was Kosta Koufos, who they then turned over for next to nothing and another ill-used draft pick that could have gotten them Kenneth Faried, but instead got them Dontas Motiejunas.

Seriously, the T-Wolves could have ended up, because of that trade, with a roster that featured Al Jefferson (or Koufos and Faried), with Blair, Stephen Curry and still would have allowed them to add Kevin Love and Pek and Rubio.

I think over all Kevin McHale did a great job of getting a lot of great pieces for a player whose best days were behind him (no offence to KG, because even with his best days behind him, he was still among the best at his position in the league).

Your thoughts? Did McHale just "give Garnett away"? or did he get a good return from Boston that just happened to become ill-used draft picks.

richiesaurus310
12-18-2012, 03:02 PM
Who cares anymore?

Caveman508
12-18-2012, 03:03 PM
They never would have gotten Rondo in that trade...

SMH!
12-18-2012, 03:07 PM
Who cares anymore?

This. Jason John Horn should stop posting pointless threads

Giraffes Rule
12-18-2012, 03:09 PM
They never would have gotten Rondo in that trade...

Rondo wasn't in the league at the time of the trade. He was saying they had the opportunity to draft him.

sep11ie
12-18-2012, 03:17 PM
Celtics got Rondo from the Suns.

Can't say they would have had the picks to get Rubio/Love(from Memphis) had they had a different core of players. Too many "what ifs" or as I like to call them, "JJHs".

king4day
12-18-2012, 03:20 PM
I always felt he did well. At the time, Jefferson was seen as an up and coming PF. Despite not keeping him, Jefferson is one of the better bigs in the league.

I wish Marion was willing to extend in Boston, or that Minny was willing to take Amar'e. The Suns would have gotten KG and there's a good chance we could have ended up with the ring instead.


This. Jason John Horn should stop posting pointless threads

I will never understand people getting so upset about a thread topic. If you don't like it, don't post in it.

king4day
12-18-2012, 03:22 PM
Rondo wasn't in the league at the time of the trade. He was saying they had the opportunity to draft him.

Rondo was a second year player actually when KG and Allen arrived. I'm surprised Minny didn't try to pry him (or maybe they did and were rejected)

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-18-2012, 03:28 PM
This. Jason John Horn should stop posting pointless threads

Is it me or does he make like 4 threads a day?

rickshaw
12-18-2012, 03:30 PM
It was a very good trade for Minny, they just didn't use the draft pick wisely.

AWC713
12-18-2012, 03:31 PM
you cant speculate in hindsight that they could have gotten others players in the draft.

they didn't. so what?

it was somewhat even in hindsight...al jefferson plus some fillers and picks? did he give him away? sure. but he had no leverage. everyone knew KG wanted out, a la carmelo or dwight.

i think dwight trade is faaaar worse.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-18-2012, 03:31 PM
It was a good trade. They shouldn't have traded Jefferson though to Utah.

Seguin
12-18-2012, 03:32 PM
Senseless thread. Boston does it 10 out of 10 times. Funny how there were conspiracy theories saying the Nba and Minny gave garnett away for free. Typical Nba fans

Hawkeye15
12-18-2012, 03:37 PM
It was a good trade. They shouldn't have traded Jefferson though to Utah.

he and Love were not working together, our defense at center was unreal bad. He was traded to make room for Love's ascension.

Too many moving parts to evaluate the trade now. The Wolves could have done better with the draft picks in the trade, and the draft picks they got due to sucking the first few years, for sure.

JasonJohnHorn
12-18-2012, 03:37 PM
Rondo was a second year player actually when KG and Allen arrived. I'm surprised Minny didn't try to pry him (or maybe they did and were rejected)

From what I heard, Teflair was the hang-up on the trade. At the time both Rondo and Teflair were averaging about 10 points and 5 assists per36 (though Rondo had a higher steals per average and better FG%). But GMs were still generally very high on Telfair and thought he had a high ceiling. The belief was that Telfair had a problem adjusting to the NBA game because he was a PG who skipped college (most guys who can straight from highschool were forwards or centers with Kobe being the obvious exception, but also illustrating that it takes a while for a highschool guard to develop an NBA game, especially a PG who needed a lot of coachign to develop their skill set). People were still hopeful that Telfair woudl develop into a star PG at that point and Boston, from what I heard, wanted to hang onto him and had offered Rondo in place of Telfair, but eventually agreed to include Telfair in the trade. I mean, NOBODY was expecting Rondo to turn into the player he's turned into, and people still saw Telfair as a project with high potential.

That said, Portland was more than happy to give up on the Telfair project after two seasons and move him to Boston, and Boston did give up the 7th pick of the draft to get Telfair (funny thing, Telfair was the 13th pick in the draft a couple seasons before... lol), so obviously Boston felt Telfair was worht investing in.


I wonder though... how much is Rondo a product of Rivers' coaching and the talent around him. Had Minny gotten Rondo back in the trade and Boston kept Telfair, would Telfair have developed into a better player than he did as a journeyman? And would Rondo have developed into the PG he is today?

ManRam
12-18-2012, 03:38 PM
Felt it was a good trade for both sides then, and still feel that way even though Al Jeff never worked out there and it didn't jumpstart that organization as quickly as most probably hoped (if it has at all)

topdog
12-18-2012, 03:39 PM
They also had their pick of PGs from Boston (from what I read) and they opted for Teflair over Rondo (had they picked Rondo they might have been better off, but Telfair's stock was still high and GMs were optimistic about his 'potential').

False. Boston rebuffed the Wolves' attempt to get Rondo included. This wasn't the worst deal in the world, but it did have 2 major flaws: 1.McHale insisted upon getting a PF in return instead of considering packages built around a wing or PG (like Rondo). 2. The follow-up drafting/team building left much to be desired.

Theo Ratliff was on his way out but showed in the small stretches that he played next to Jefferson the type of player best suited to play alongside Big Al i.e. a defensive shotblocker. McHale should have either drafted Noah in '07 or Deandre Jordan in '08 (at the very least). Additionally, while the Love trade was a good trade for the cap cleaning it did (and now for the player he's become), McHale had a year of Big Al to figure out that two offensive-minded PFs weren't going to work well together. He should have made a move to get Hibbert, Gordon, Gallinari or Lopez (either in the initial deal or once he had acquired Love).

JordansBulls
12-18-2012, 03:40 PM
I wish Marion was willing to extend in Boston, or that Minny was willing to take Amar'e. The Suns would have gotten KG and there's a good chance we could have ended up with the ring instead.



I will never understand people getting so upset about a thread topic. If you don't like it, don't post in it.

I remember this as well. I remember Pierce saying he would leave if they didn't get another star and at the time Marion was the guy they were targeting.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-18-2012, 03:41 PM
he and Love were not working together, our defense at center was unreal bad. He was traded to make room for Love's ascension.

Too many moving parts to evaluate the trade now. The Wolves could have done better with the draft picks in the trade, and the draft picks they got due to sucking the first few years, for sure.

They were really only given 2 seasons to work with each other. I'm just interested to see if it would work now seeing how great Love has developed.

JasonJohnHorn
12-18-2012, 03:42 PM
it was somewhat even in hindsight...al jefferson plus some fillers and picks? did he give him away? sure. but he had no leverage. everyone knew KG wanted out, a la carmelo or dwight.

i think dwight trade is faaaar worse.

I think with McHale though, that at the time of the trade, the perception was that Minny lost the trade and didn't get enough back, but in hindsight, the pieces they got for the trade were EXTREMELY good and could have made them a much better club had the draft picks been used well. McHale, I think, did an amazing job of getting a lot of good pieces back. Three starters (Jefferson, Gomes and Telfair), one of which posted better number than Garnett did following the trade, as well as two first rounders and a couple pieces in Green and Ratliff. McHale was seen as the loser of that trade, but I think considering the fact that he didn't have much leverage, he ended up getting a much better deal than most other GMs would have gotten.

Likewise, the Melo trade saw Denver get a lot of nice pieces back in return. Denver's GM did a great job there.

mngopher35
12-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Where did you hear that about Rondo? He was one of the targets in the trade but Boston wouldn't give him up.

topdog
12-18-2012, 03:48 PM
From what I heard, Teflair was the hang-up on the trade. At the time both Rondo and Teflair were averaging about 10 points and 5 assists per36 (though Rondo had a higher steals per average and better FG%). But GMs were still generally very high on Telfair and thought he had a high ceiling. The belief was that Telfair had a problem adjusting to the NBA game because he was a PG who skipped college (most guys who can straight from highschool were forwards or centers with Kobe being the obvious exception, but also illustrating that it takes a while for a highschool guard to develop an NBA game, especially a PG who needed a lot of coachign to develop their skill set). People were still hopeful that Telfair woudl develop into a star PG at that point and Boston, from what I heard, wanted to hang onto him and had offered Rondo in place of Telfair, but eventually agreed to include Telfair in the trade. I mean, NOBODY was expecting Rondo to turn into the player he's turned into, and people still saw Telfair as a project with high potential.

That said, Portland was more than happy to give up on the Telfair project after two seasons and move him to Boston, and Boston did give up the 7th pick of the draft to get Telfair (funny thing, Telfair was the 13th pick in the draft a couple seasons before... lol), so obviously Boston felt Telfair was worht investing in.


I wonder though... how much is Rondo a product of Rivers' coaching and the talent around him. Had Minny gotten Rondo back in the trade and Boston kept Telfair, would Telfair have developed into a better player than he did as a journeyman? And would Rondo have developed into the PG he is today?

Please do a little research before making claims in this forum. You know people don't bother to read much:


Basically, [Ainge] offered anyone from his rotten team that McHale wanted with the exception of Pierce, center Kendrick Perkins and the little point guard who showed some promise as a rookie, Rondo.

Reportedly, McHale balked for a bit, demanding Rondo, but eventually accepted Sebastian Telfair in his place.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/london_balling/former-celtic-kevin-mchale-s-gaffe-kept-rondo-in-boston/article_d9497b4c-af05-11e1-8b7e-0019bb30f31a.html

Hawkeye15
12-18-2012, 04:09 PM
They were really only given 2 seasons to work with each other. I'm just interested to see if it would work now seeing how great Love has developed.

Jefferson is a ball stopper, and it was the worst defensive frontcourt I have ever seen. On top of that, Jefferson was making big money for a long time, something a rebuilding team with a replacement for him at cheap money for 2 years was capable of doing. I do think they could have gotten more out of it, but a Love-Jefferson frontcourt was getting abused defensively, and their skillsets, while not over-lapping, didn't mesh.

dee279
12-18-2012, 04:10 PM
7 years later, and we still must talk about this. It is crazy to think this thread is not relevant. :rolleyes:

topdog
12-18-2012, 04:21 PM
7 years later, and we still must talk about this. It is crazy to think this thread is not relevant. :rolleyes:

5 years... and that's kind of what you need for actual perspective on such a big deal. Think about the Pau Gasol trade and how that looked for Memphis at first blush. Knicks fans want to evaluate the Carmelo trade now, but some picks have yet to be put into play.

Celtics33
12-18-2012, 06:19 PM
I think Garnett's knee injury really altered his production, but I would still do that trade 10 times out of 10, due to Garnett just brought so much more to the table than Big Al did at the time.

Bishnoff
12-18-2012, 07:00 PM
Celtics got Rondo from the Suns.

Can't say they would have had the picks to get Rubio/Love(from Memphis) had they had a different core of players. Too many "what ifs" or as I like to call them, "JJHs".

Lol.

king4day
12-18-2012, 08:25 PM
5 years... and that's kind of what you need for actual perspective on such a big deal. Think about the Pau Gasol trade and how that looked for Memphis at first blush. Knicks fans want to evaluate the Carmelo trade now, but some picks have yet to be put into play.

Great post

GiantsSwaGG
12-18-2012, 08:37 PM
Another pointless thread by JasonJohnHorn :sigh: