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View Full Version : Why Have Deron's Numbers Dipped So Heavily?



shep33
12-17-2012, 04:59 AM
It honestly saddens me to see him not playing well. Dude is one of my favorite players. In Utah he was an absolute stud... unstoppable.

Looking at his numbers since he joined the Nets though, he's declined across the board. Since joining the Nets he's been shooting below 40% and his assists are the lowest since his rookie year. Defensively he doesn't look great either. :(

Is this on Avery? Or is it just Deron being injured? He looks heavier than normal too. Hope he picks it up because the Nets have some serious talent.

What's up?

Ebbs
12-17-2012, 05:06 AM
Avery is a coach that either registers with players. Or doesn't. That simple.

I don't know about Avery and Deron but they seem to have a good relationship.

I'd point my finger at Deron and his own work ethic.

seikou8
12-17-2012, 05:12 AM
but he played in new jersey it is early this is first good team since utah give it time:rolleyes: if this was melo he is overrated not top 30 player denver won the trade by a big margin

Whomewhome
12-17-2012, 05:14 AM
Two things.

A) He got what he wanted, and ate the coaches head. Jerry sloan got fired and now he has things his way. (STARS should never be treated like that) I never liked that about our strategy going into Brooklyn but hey I was not willing to have a bunch of scrubs open BC for us.

B) In Utah he played care free. In Brooklyn he has the whole world on his shoulders and is clearly being asked to be the leader of this team. I've watched most of our games and I can safely say he isn't our leader!! In fact our struggles have come from not really having a leader on the floor, some night Dwill shows up, other he doesn't. When he doesn't we have Gerald Wallace who sometimes assumes the role.

I think the biggest issue right now is his confidence.... As for Avery and Billy King, I think they are too lenient with him we need to toughen up our stance with him...

KingPosey
12-17-2012, 05:16 AM
I feel like he really got complacent with his game and went against what worked. He used to work his game inside out. Now he just seems really ok with settling for deep jumpers with people in his face

I think it started with coming to a REALLY bad team, and he got into such a bad habit that his game has evolved into this mess

seikou8
12-17-2012, 05:18 AM
so who the trade jazz or nets;)

Whomewhome
12-17-2012, 05:20 AM
so who the trade jazz or nets;)
Too early to tell. I don't believe in Kanter, and Derick Favors is still raw and still behind two guys on the depth chart....

The thing is I don't think We had a choice, we had to get a star.... so

shep33
12-17-2012, 05:30 AM
Two things.

A) He got what he wanted, and ate the coaches head. Jerry sloan got fired and now he has things his way. (STARS should never be treated like that) I never liked that about our strategy going into Brooklyn but hey I was not willing to have a bunch of scrubs open BC for us.

B) In Utah he played care free. In Brooklyn he has the whole world on his shoulders and is clearly being asked to be the leader of this team. I've watched most of our games and I can safely say he isn't our leader!! In fact our struggles have come from not really having a leader on the floor, some night Dwill shows up, other he doesn't. When he doesn't we have Gerald Wallace who sometimes assumes the role.

I think the biggest issue right now is his confidence.... As for Avery and Billy King, I think they are too lenient with him we need to toughen up our stance with him...


The 2nd part of your argument is pretty interesting. Never really thought of it like that before, but yeah, he does have quite a bit of responsibility, and it may be affecting his confidence.

What I always wondered about with Deron and his career so far with the Nets is that offensively, its a lot different from what was going on in Utah. Not as much is based on P&R in Brooklyn to what I've been watching. Lot of isos.

netsgiantsyanks
12-17-2012, 06:13 AM
because he's become a shoot first type of guy and actually has some pressure on him.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 06:14 AM
Avery is a coach that either registers with players. Or doesn't. That simple.

I don't know about Avery and Deron but they seem to have a good relationship.

I'd point my finger at Deron and his own work ethic.

Avery and Deron have an AWESOME relationship. Avery's positive relationship was instrumental in getting Deron to stay. Bottom line is Avery is a terrible coach for Deron because he does not hold him accountable and he has no idea how to coach offense.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 06:15 AM
because he's become a shoot first type of guy and actually has some pressure on him.

That has nothing to do with it really either. In fact there are times when Deron doesn't look to score enough when he should.

netsgiantsyanks
12-17-2012, 06:21 AM
That has nothing to do with it really either. In fact there are times when Deron doesn't look to score enough when he should.

and there are times when he shoots the deep 3 for no ****ing reason at all instead of trying to make a play.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 06:28 AM
Losing Jerry Sloan was the worst thing that ever happened to him as far as basketball. He came from playing in a structured offense that abused the Pick and Roll with one of the best Pick and Pop PF's in the game in Boozer to an isolation heavy offense and rarely playing pick and pop with Kris Humphries who cant shoot to save his life.

His defense also slipped a ton. Avery doesn't hold him accountable at all on defense.

Deron needs a strong willed coach. His attitude is more like Westbrook and less like CP3 who can succeed with a crappy coach.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 06:32 AM
and there are times when he shoots the deep 3 for no ****ing reason at all instead of trying to make a play.

Thats a function of coaching and the offense. Avery's is using him as an isolation PG. He is a great PG but he isn't Derrick Rose/Westbrook. He cant take a defense down by himself every play when the shot clock is down to 10 seconds like they can. He is more CP3/Rajon Rondo.

Chronz
12-17-2012, 06:38 AM
The 2nd part of your argument is pretty interesting. Never really thought of it like that before, but yeah, he does have quite a bit of responsibility, and it may be affecting his confidence.

What I always wondered about with Deron and his career so far with the Nets is that offensively, its a lot different from what was going on in Utah. Not as much is based on P&R in Brooklyn to what I've been watching. Lot of isos.

I doubt its that, contrary to popular belief, he didn't run much PnR in Utah, at certainly not any more than the average team would. Sloans system was obviously predicated on ball movement and Deron thrived making decisions simply by surveying the defense and waiting for openings to emerge. When he wasn't doing that he was partaking in that flex by coming off screens and pin downs, even posting up when given the chance. Its why many felt he was the better fit in Utah than CP3 and vice versa, while I dont know if any of that is true, if you break down his possession usage one glaring problem sticks out.

Synergy Breakdown -- Usage% (PPP)



Utah (2k10) -- New Jersey (2k13)
PnR 19.7%(.89) -- 21.% (.7)
ISO 20.4% (.9) -- 21% (.85)
Transition 18% (1.21) -- 11.2% (.94)
Screens 13.2% (1.02) -- 15.6% (.79)



His transition attempts are down, the Nets play at the slowest pace in the league. Avery is seemingly trying to turn every game into a grind it out affair, given his roster its impressive that they are this good defensively but overall I think they should build the team around Deron's strengths.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 06:42 AM
His transition attempts are down, the Nets play at the slowest pace in the league. Avery is seemingly trying to turn every game into a grind it out affair, given his roster its impressive that they are this good defensively but overall I think they should build the team around Deron's strengths.

BINGO. Hit the nail on the head. Deron's Utah teams were always out on the break with Matthews, AK47 and CJ Miles. Avery has instilled a slow, plodding, stuck in the mud offense where Deron walks the ball up every play and uses all 24 seconds of the shot clock. Without Lopez this style of play usually results in some type of low % shot.

But your still underestimating the Pick and Roll issue. Maybe we dont run it any less than Utah (I doubt) but it's never been less effective than this season. Boozer was a lethal pick and pop player which helped tremendously.

Chronz
12-17-2012, 06:51 AM
BINGO. Hit the nail on the head. Deron's Utah teams were always out on the break with Matthews, AK47 and CJ Miles. Avery has instilled a slow, plodding, stuck in the mud offense where Deron walks the ball up every play and uses all 24 seconds of the shot clock. Without Lopez this style of play usually results in some type of low % shot.

But your still underestimating the Pick and Roll issue. Maybe we dont run it any less than Utah (I doubt) but it's never been less effective than this season. Boozer was a lethal pick and pop player which helped tremendously.

I do agree that those players helped him, the spacing he had with Korver, Boozer/Milsap and Okur was devastating. He was in a dream scenario where he could pick and choose his spots alot better and he had the skillset to be a threat and open up the game for his teammates. It really was fun to watch when you think back on it (though I hated their guts at the time).

And I know the natural assumption is to look at Boozer and Deron running that 2-man game but Utah was deadly because they could kill you in many more ways than simple PnR execution. They ran the meanest Flex in the league and I remember a stat listing teams that ran the least amount of PnR, the Jazz were there with the Lakers.

So while hes actually getting more shots off PnR sets this year, I imagine that they arent as good as the look as he got in Utah.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 07:05 AM
I do agree that those players helped him, the spacing he had with Korver, Boozer/Milsap and Okur was devastating. He was in a dream scenario where he could pick and choose his spots alot better and he had the skillset to be a threat and open up the game for his teammates. It really was fun to watch when you think back on it (though I hated their guts at the time).

And I know the natural assumption is to look at Boozer and Deron running that 2-man game but Utah was deadly because they could kill you in many more ways than simple PnR execution. They ran the meanest Flex in the league and I remember a stat listing teams that ran the least amount of PnR, the Jazz were there with the Lakers.

So while hes actually getting more shots off PnR sets this year, I imagine that they arent as good as the look as he got in Utah.
All very true. I will say this. Deron's Utah teams ALWAYS had their opponents on their heels. In his last playoff series against DEN he was fast breaking them to death with Wesley Matthews and Korver pulling up all over the place for 3. And they didn't have Okur that series but started Fesenko,


The spacing of the Nets team is incredibly poor and MOST of that has to do with the rotations Avery puts out on the floor. Often times we will have Reggie Evans/Kris Humphries/Crash together or Humphries/Lopez/Crash together and Avery will have Deron walking the ball up the court. The spacing is awful. The pace is awful. That is a style best suited for Derrick Rose not Deron Williams.

Losoway
12-17-2012, 07:13 AM
you guys need to relax. deron needs a constant go to guy in order for him to be fully effective. in utah jerry sloan maximized that with pick n rolls etc with boozer

avery johnson is a great person but a terrrible coach

Chill_Will_24
12-17-2012, 07:14 AM
Avery is not the coach this team needs. There is no reason a team with so many options offensively should struggle to put up points. You have 5 maybe 6 players in the roster who play heavy minutes capable of giving you 20pts on any given night. Does not maker sense to me and i am shocked Avery is still there.

He has done an amazing job with the defense considering how little he has to work with and perhaps the pace has a lot to do with that, but on offense Avery has no clue. He basically throws crap at the wall and hopes one of his isos sticks then he will ride that play till it stops working and move on to the next one.

Decent defensive coach. Nothing more.

Sloan also demanded excellence from Deron and Avery is kinda soft on him.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 07:17 AM
When you have Deron running a half court set with Reggie Evans/Jerry Stackhouse/Gerald Wallace on the court at the same time you know you have a terrible head coach.

Lakers4life08
12-17-2012, 08:16 AM
last season he played like garbage becouse his team was d-league level,this season he playing like garbage becouse he has too strong team

JasonJohnHorn
12-17-2012, 09:22 AM
Jerry sloan got fired.


Jerry Sloan did not get fired. He quit.

And then Utah traded D-Will.... so obviously Utah wasn't siding with the player over the coach. They lost one of the greatest coaches the league has ever seen, and the dumped the player that some say were responsible for his quitting.


As for his dip in numbers, I'd have to say it is likely the Sloan should get a lot of credit for getting him to play as effectively as he did in Utah. I wouldn't put it as a knock on Avery Johnson, but Sloan is on a whole other level when it comes to coaching than most coaches out there.

Whomewhome
12-17-2012, 09:22 AM
The 2nd part of your argument is pretty interesting. Never really thought of it like that before, but yeah, he does have quite a bit of responsibility, and it may be affecting his confidence.

What I always wondered about with Deron and his career so far with the Nets is that offensively, its a lot different from what was going on in Utah. Not as much is based on P&R in Brooklyn to what I've been watching. Lot of isos.
He could have bolted but he felt the need to stay and be part of the Brooklyn Nets and for that I will forever be grateful... However I really hope he can regain his confidence because we need him as a player, as a PG and more importantly as the LEADER of this team./

Whomewhome
12-17-2012, 09:26 AM
I doubt its that, contrary to popular belief, he didn't run much PnR in Utah, at certainly not any more than the average team would. Sloans system was obviously predicated on ball movement and Deron thrived making decisions simply by surveying the defense and waiting for openings to emerge. When he wasn't doing that he was partaking in that flex by coming off screens and pin downs, even posting up when given the chance. Its why many felt he was the better fit in Utah than CP3 and vice versa, while I dont know if any of that is true, if you break down his possession usage one glaring problem sticks out.

Synergy Breakdown -- Usage% (PPP)



Utah (2k10) -- New Jersey (2k13)
PnR 19.7%(.89) -- 21.% (.7)
ISO 20.4% (.9) -- 21% (.85)
Transition 18% (1.21) -- 11.2% (.94)
Screens 13.2% (1.02) -- 15.6% (.79)



His transition attempts are down, the Nets play at the slowest pace in the league. Avery is seemingly trying to turn every game into a grind it out affair, given his roster its impressive that they are this good defensively but overall I think they should build the team around Deron's strengths.
Avery has no choice, we don't have any athletic players on this team. The most athletic player is Gerald Wallace and he is 31... the second most athletic is probably Tyshon Taylor. Even Marshoon Brooks is not an athletic player- hence the reports that he is on the block.

Whomewhome
12-17-2012, 09:31 AM
Jerry Sloan did not get fired. He quit.

And then Utah traded D-Will.... so obviously Utah wasn't siding with the player over the coach. They lost one of the greatest coaches the league has ever seen, and the dumped the player that some say were responsible for his quitting.


As for his dip in numbers, I'd have to say it is likely the Sloan should get a lot of credit for getting him to play as effectively as he did in Utah. I wouldn't put it as a knock on Avery Johnson, but Sloan is on a whole other level when it comes to coaching than most coaches out there.
yeah that is a technicality because Sloan would not have quit if the organization would have sided with him. Since Larry Miller died Sloan didn't have the backing anymore he needed to be the Sloan of old... So forgive me if I don't buy the whole "Quit" thing....

However I do agree that Sloan was the best thing to happen to Dwill. and we need a coach who is exactly like Sloan... Cough cough... Sloan is probably one of the best coaches in my eyes. He and Pop's are on a whole different level. Jackson is good but he needs a superstar.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 09:39 AM
Avery has no choice, we don't have any athletic players on this team. The most athletic player is Gerald Wallace and he is 31... the second most athletic is probably Tyshon Taylor. Even Marshoon Brooks is not an athletic player- hence the reports that he is on the block.

Utah was going with Korver, CJ Miles, Boozer and Okur when DWill was at this peak there. All those guys are very very below average athletes. Athletes have nothing to do with it. DWill needs a better system and a better coach period. The best athlete he played next to in Utah was AK47 who is basically the same level athlete as Gerald Wallace. Being surrounded by guys who can make a shot is more important.

Seizabmc
12-17-2012, 09:55 AM
Because he is not a franchise player and he cant handle the pressure like melo can so far felton has been better for his team

Rockice_8
12-17-2012, 10:46 AM
New team, injuries, and just flat out missing wide open looks that he didn't in the past. I think he might need to take a few games off.

Rockice_8
12-17-2012, 10:47 AM
Because he is not a franchise player and he cant handle the pressure like melo can so far felton has been better for his team

This isn't Nets vs Knicks.

Becks2307
12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
Added to all the other points, I believe he is declining as well. I'm not sure we will ever see the DWill of Utah again, its been almost 2 years of him playing like this. However he can still be a super effective PG, but Idk if he is gonna be elite again.

Becks2307
12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
Added to all the other points, I believe he is declining as well. I'm not sure we will ever see the DWill of Utah again, its been almost 2 years of him playing like this. However he can still be a super effective PG, but Idk if he is gonna be elite again.

Procision
12-17-2012, 11:15 AM
Isn't he dealing with bone spurs in his ankle? Pretty sure that made ray allen look like a very average shooter.

I Rock Shaqs
12-17-2012, 11:18 AM
It honestly saddens me to see him not playing well. Dude is one of my favorite players. In Utah he was an absolute stud... unstoppable.

Looking at his numbers since he joined the Nets though, he's declined across the board. Since joining the Nets he's been shooting below 40% and his assists are the lowest since his rookie year. Defensively he doesn't look great either. :(

Is this on Avery? Or is it just Deron being injured? He looks heavier than normal too. Hope he picks it up because the Nets have some serious talent.

What's up?

It saddens you?? LOLOLOLOL

BklynKnicks3
12-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Because playing in NY aint for everybody its like a bathing suit

sep11ie
12-17-2012, 11:32 AM
Why has Dwight Howard's numbers gone down so much since being aquired by the Lakers?

RonE Coleman
12-17-2012, 11:34 AM
Oh Ver Ray Ted.

strahan92osi72
12-17-2012, 11:49 AM
D-Will's problem is simple, he needs a big time scorer with him to prosper. He doesn't have the ability to carry a team, especially when it comes to scoring. He's not a great scorer at all. Deron's one of those players where if he's your second best player, you are a dangerous team whereas if he's your best player, you're not a dangerous team at all.

koreancabbage
12-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Why has Dwight Howard's numbers gone down so much since being aquired by the Lakers?

this isn't about him

sep11ie
12-17-2012, 12:06 PM
this isn't about him

Deron Williams.

colinskik
12-17-2012, 12:19 PM
Isn't he dealing with bone spurs in his ankle? Pretty sure that made ray allen look like a very average shooter.

This. Not only has he been in pain since the season started, opting against surgery, waiting to have the operation in the off season, he has already been banged up in multiple games this year. And yet, he's still holding the team together. Don't expect the Utah Deron until next season, if at all, ever again. He can still get the job done though.

naps
12-17-2012, 12:31 PM
Remember those battles of CP3 and Deron years back when CP3 was widely regarded as the best PG in the league and Deron was the 2nd best but Deron used to outplay CP3? Whatever happened to that Deron Williams of Utah Jazz? Hell, whatever happened to that CP3 of 2007-2009?

Oldmantrash
12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
Deron just isn't playing good, he's become our third option in crunch time.
He has a couple nice passes every game, but has not been the floor general we need.His shooting is awful.
Great players usually play through injuries.
I see him sulk on the court a lot too, during times we need him to step up.

Avery makes it worse be never critisizing him, calling out guys like Hump, or Marshon, but never Deron.

I'm tired of Avery Johnson, and his wacky rotations, his instisent on playing guys like Bogans who can't score at all. Starting Evans was a bad idea too, he had a great thing going ont he bench, put him back now.

The Nets will never be a great team, unless De-will starts playing like a great player.Lopez had been the best layer this year, and it's not close.

Becks2307
12-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Remember those battles of CP3 and Deron years back when CP3 was widely regarded as the best PG in the league and Deron was the 2nd best but Deron used to outplay CP3? Whatever happened to that Deron Williams of Utah Jazz? Hell, whatever happened to that CP3 of 2007-2009?

As I said in the other thread. CP3 is plays more efficiently now. Not in terms of basketball efficiency but more in terms of his body. You won't see him playing crazy minutes and putting up gaudy per game stats. But you will see him turn it on in the playoffs and run his team.

That said, I do believe that injury affected him big time.

Chronz
12-17-2012, 01:21 PM
Avery has no choice, we don't have any athletic players on this team. The most athletic player is Gerald Wallace and he is 31... the second most athletic is probably Tyshon Taylor. Even Marshoon Brooks is not an athletic player- hence the reports that he is on the block.

Dead last tho? Thats too low for a team with Deron Williams on it, JJ can fill the wing and Gallace is at his best on the run. I have a feeling its more out of Avery's need to slow the game down for Brook. Humphries seems young enough to run and Im pretty sure they ran more with him abit last year.

heyman321
12-17-2012, 01:24 PM
He is overrated, Rondo is way better.

IndyRealist
12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
No one mentioned HCA? Utah and Denver are two of the toughest cities to travel to. Sprinting for 48 minutes at altitude is significantly different than doing it at sea level. There's a reason boxers and MMA fighters go to altitude to train.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
Added to all the other points, I believe he is declining as well. I'm not sure we will ever see the DWill of Utah again, its been almost 2 years of him playing like this. However he can still be a super effective PG, but Idk if he is gonna be elite again.

Declining in what way? Physically? at 28? without ever suffering a major injury in his career? Maybe his work ethic is declining thats about it.

waveycrockett
12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
No one mentioned HCA? Utah and Denver are two of the toughest cities to travel to. Sprinting for 48 minutes at altitude is significantly different than doing it at sea level. There's a reason boxers and MMA fighters go to altitude to train.
Ive never heard about anyone saying Utah's altitude made it tough to play more the fans than anything

colinskik
12-17-2012, 02:36 PM
Ive never heard about anyone saying Utah's altitude made it tough to play more the fans than anything

Check out the altitude. That's all you need to know.

HowBoutDemBulls
12-17-2012, 03:05 PM
He just isnt a superstar. Not even top 5 PG even if you count ones that are currently healthy
Paul
Rondo
Westbrook
Irving
Parker
I'd put a healthy Rose over him, maybe Nash too. Rubio and Lillard will also pass him soon enough.

Punk
12-17-2012, 03:16 PM
Injuries but it's a lack of confidence he said. Much like Melo last year, his percentages went all the way to the 30s.

The posts in this thread goes to show how unintelligent fans really are. Melo wasn't a star a year ago because his numbers were not great, now everyone is on his nuts. Stop. Seriously. Love is struggling, I guess he's not a star either and he's overrated?

Since when stats impact what a superstar PG is? In that case, Calderon is one too.

Hawkeye15
12-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Sloan used his strengths much better. Deron also looked as if he didn't even care many times last season.

Dankster
12-17-2012, 03:54 PM
Sloan used his strengths much better. Deron also looked as if he didn't even care many times last season.

I have to agree with this. I hate to say it, because no fan wants to think their stars aren't giving 110% every night, but he had many games where it looked like his head wasn't in it. I've seen enough Net games since they obtained him to know he usually shows up when he has a big time head to head matchup. I've seen at least 8 or 9 games when he really turns it up a notch on his aggressiveness offensively when he's up against a quality PG.

He shoots way too many 3's and a decent amount of them don't come in the "flow" of the game. i still think he's a wonderful player, maybe not superstar or someone you can build your team around, but as a 2nd option he could truly excel. Hard to think of him as a superstar with how inefficient he's been for so long.

fresh prince
12-17-2012, 04:00 PM
Uhh beacuse he is playing with Bone Spurs in his Ankle???


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8581201/deron-williams-brooklyn-nets-bone-spurs-left-ankle-according-gm-billy-king



NEW YORK -- Brooklyn Nets general manager Billy King confirmed Thursday that an MRI revealed point guard Deron Williams has bone spurs in his left ankle and probably will have to undergo offseason surgery to have them "cleaned up."

However, King downplayed the results and expects the injury to be "manageable."



He's playing hurt and its showing in his play.

JNA17
12-17-2012, 04:05 PM
Kinda shows how Jerry Sloan knows how to bring the best out of his Point Guards. (Stockton, Deron, etc).

shep33
12-17-2012, 04:16 PM
Uhh beacuse he is playing with Bone Spurs in his Ankle???


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8581201/deron-williams-brooklyn-nets-bone-spurs-left-ankle-according-gm-billy-king




He's playing hurt and its showing in his play.

I think it's definitely part of it no question, but he wasn't near his Utah averages when he came to the Nets two years ago, and last year his numbers weren't normal for Deron

Il Mago50
12-17-2012, 04:20 PM
He's hurt...everybody forgetting he skipped surgery to play out this season for his ankle or foot, maybe wrist I forget what it was...

JiffyMix88
12-17-2012, 04:29 PM
Heard his wife was cheating on him and the reason was because his wife said his penis wasn't big enough so this could have something to do with the decline as of late

sep11ie
12-17-2012, 04:52 PM
Heard his wife was cheating on him and the reason was because his wife said his penis wasn't big enough so this could have something to do with the decline as of late

I lol'd

D-Leethal
12-17-2012, 04:55 PM
He got paid.

Losoway
12-17-2012, 05:12 PM
Injuries but it's a lack of confidence he said. Much like Melo last year, his percentages went all the way to the 30s.

The posts in this thread goes to show how unintelligent fans really are. Melo wasn't a star a year ago because his numbers were not great, now everyone is on his nuts. Stop. Seriously. Love is struggling, I guess he's not a star either and he's overrated?

Since when stats impact what a superstar PG is? In that case, Calderon is one too.

you couldnt have said it any better. IM remembering reading last season everyone calling melo terrible . Now look at psd now . Deron will be fine. The coach has to do a better job

sp1derm00
12-17-2012, 05:50 PM
He just isnt a superstar. Not even top 5 PG even if you count ones that are currently healthy
Paul
Rondo
Westbrook
Irving
Parker
I'd put a healthy Rose over him, maybe Nash too. Rubio and Lillard will also pass him soon enough.

Don't forget Curry.

I would put Curry over Rubio, Lillard, and Deron.

DeRaptor95
12-17-2012, 06:15 PM
He got paid.
+1 lol

AddiX
12-17-2012, 06:24 PM
Derons jumper is what would worry me. Getting paid shouldn't hurt that aspect.

He also isn't as aggressive. He gets the ball, dribbles really hard like he's going to do something, than doesn't do a damn thing.

BULLSFAN0810
12-17-2012, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by HowBoutDemBulls View Post
He just isnt a superstar. Not even top 5 PG even if you count ones that are currently healthy
Paul
Rondo
Westbrook
Irving
Parker
I'd put a healthy Rose over him, maybe Nash too. Rubio and Lillard will also pass him soon enough.

AND your list is wack.

As said by others PG... I KNOW I HEARD WILLIAMS SAY ROSE IS BETTER

ROSE
IRVING( WATCH THE GUY, HE IS PAUL AND WILLIAMS IN ONE)
WIlliAms/Paul
Westbrook
Parker
His numbers are not as they use to be bc, of better talent. He and Devin Harris were considered up and coming. Harris turned to be trash...Williams progressed. Then came in more prospects. While the propects became better William got older, and turned out not to be as good or as even as once thought..... Dont be mad Williams is better than Paul, or even barely.