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View Full Version : Kobe is not allowing the Lakers to gel



dnewguy
12-15-2012, 12:35 PM
How can the Lakers gel as a team if Kobe keeps taking about 30 shots a game? Last night he was 9 for 29 while Howard only took 8 shots. Many of us are blaming their coach but how can you have a team when one player refuses to pass?

Do you also feel like Kobe is killing chemistry in L.A? or do you think Kobe taking 30 shots is necessary?

Money_23
12-15-2012, 12:36 PM
yep. He's a cancer.

tredigs
12-15-2012, 12:39 PM
You're focusing on the wrong side of the floor. Kobe and friends failure (or decision not to fight through screens - EVER) to go along with otherwise lackluster effort is what's killing them the most imo.


Although it's no secret that ever since Phil left Pau has been used hilariously wrong. Not the guy you want receiving the ball outside of the key when he has the best low post moves in the game to go along with being a great passer. We'll see if they switch that up when he returns next week.

dnewguy
12-15-2012, 12:43 PM
You're focusing on the wrong side of the floor. Although it's no secret that ever since Phil left Pau has been used hilariously wrong. Not the guy you want receiving the ball outside of the key when he has the best low post moves in the game to go along with being a great passer. We'll see if they switch that up when he returns next week.

So you dont think Kobe has some responsibility? How can he take 29 shots and Howard 8 and then we blame how other players are used? He doesn't even pass to Gasol or even Howard...in the long run it will hurt their team but Kobe will look good like always even at a cost to team. There is no need taking 29 shots against the Wiz...The Wiz don't even have anyone that can guard Howard yet he only took 8 shots. That's not the coach's fault IMO. I guess stats is more important that wins for Kobe

lakers4sho
12-15-2012, 12:53 PM
5 rings

dnewguy
12-15-2012, 12:56 PM
5 rings

All by Phil Jackson

tredigs
12-15-2012, 12:56 PM
So you dont think Kobe has some responsibility? How can he take 29 shots and Howard 8 and then we blame how other players are used? He doesn't even pass to Gasol or even Howard...in the long run it will hurt their team but Kobe will look good like always even at a cost to team. There is no need taking 29 shots against the Wiz...The Wiz don't even have anyone that can guard Howard yet he only took 8 shots. That's not the coach's fault IMO. I guess stats is more important that wins for Kobe

I never said that did I? He's certainly not using the team to their greatest potential offensively, but they got the W. There's really no point in discussing how the Lakers run their offense until at the very least Pau comes back. I'm not sure what the deal with Nash is to still be out at this point but that clearly will fundamentally change their offense and Kobe's role in it also.

What I'm saying is that regardless of their offense - which even through all of this has been putting up points and as a whole is OK - it's their defense that is the problem on this team. And I called this before the season started. It's Howard at less than elite shape and a bunch of weak/lazy defenders out there. All run by a weak defensive system that appears to have no accountability for not fighting on that end. That was pegged to be and still is their problem. It's why they're not a contender.

Money_23
12-15-2012, 12:56 PM
All by Phil Jackson

are all of MJ's by Phil Jackson as well?

naps
12-15-2012, 01:00 PM
Their record is 1-12 or something when he scores 30+, 0-3 when he scores 40 or more, and 8-3 when he has 5 or more assists.

That has got to speak for something. Specially that 8-3 record when he has 5 or more assists.


In before,
you obviously don't watch the Lakers play.
Kobe has to take 30 shots because he doesn't have capable teammates. He's never had that in his career.

Money_23
12-15-2012, 01:02 PM
Their record is 1-12 or something when he scores 30+, 0-3 when he scores 40 or more, and 8-3 when he has 5 or more assists.

That has got to speak for something. Specially that 8-3 record when he has 5 or more assists.


In before,
you obviously don't watch the Lakers play.
Kobe has to take 30 shots because he doesn't have capable teammates. He's never had that in his career.

you pretty much spoke the truth there in bold. Can't rack up assists if your teammates miss wide open shots or pass it right back to you. That's whole arbitrary 30point+ and 40 point + record is pointless anyway. Context is necessary.

chinakobefan
12-15-2012, 01:10 PM
Right on the money, Money 23

naps
12-15-2012, 01:14 PM
you pretty much spoke the truth there in bold. Can't rack up assists if your teammates miss wide open shots or pass it right back to you. That's whole arbitrary 30point+ and 40 point + record is pointless anyway. Context is necessary.


Yeah, teammates missing wide open shots. Such a great argument :rolleyes: Like, plenty of other players who are getting 5 assists a game don't have teammates that miss wide open shots. How come it's always that Kobe never has enough help :laugh2:

It can't be a coincidence throughout a 17 year period Lakers play better as team when Kobe passes the ball and don't hogg it for jacking up.

Again,

1-12 or something when he scores 30+.
0-3 when he scores 40 or more.
8-3 when he has 5 or more assists.

It doesn't demand brilliance and genius to realize what's the correlation between how Kobe play and how they win.

Teeboy1487
12-15-2012, 01:15 PM
5 rings

:nod:

greg_ory_2005
12-15-2012, 01:18 PM
He's pretty much played the same way his entire career. You can't expect him to change all of a sudden.

justinnum1
12-15-2012, 01:26 PM
So kobe needs phil jackson to win another ring?

lakers4sho
12-15-2012, 01:31 PM
you obviously don't watch the Lakers play.
Kobe has to take 30 shots because he doesn't have capable teammates. He's never had that in his career.

Dade County
12-15-2012, 01:32 PM
5 rings

:facepalm:

Shaq:rolleyes:

ChickenSouvlaki
12-15-2012, 01:33 PM
I never said that did I? He's certainly not using the team to their greatest potential offensively, but they got the W. There's really no point in discussing how the Lakers run their offense until at the very least Pau comes back. I'm not sure what the deal with Nash is to still be out at this point but that clearly will fundamentally change their offense and Kobe's role in it also.

What I'm saying is that regardless of their offense - which even through all of this has been putting up points and as a whole is OK - it's their defense that is the problem on this team. And I called this before the season started. It's Howard at less than elite shape and a bunch of weak/lazy defenders out there. All run by a weak defensive system that appears to have no accountability for not fighting on that end. That was pegged to be and still is their problem. It's why they're not a contender.

But they haven't been getting W's. Not enough anyway.

And dont try and justify Kobe's performance yesterday by simply saying, "they got the W." Sure they got the W and thats great for them, they desperately needed a win. Unfortunately for them you cant play the Wizards every night and they probably wouldnt have gotten away with Kobe's selfishness had they been playing a half decent team.

lakers4sho
12-15-2012, 01:33 PM
:facepalm:

Shaq:rolleyes:

Wade
Pippen
Jabbar
Cousy and an entire roster of HOFs

your point?

Teeboy1487
12-15-2012, 01:36 PM
you obviously don't watch the Lakers play.
Kobe has to take 30 shots because he doesn't have capable teammates. He's never had that in his career.

:clap:

Money_23
12-15-2012, 01:37 PM
Yeah, teammates missing wide open shots. Such a great argument :rolleyes: Like, plenty of other players who are getting 5 assists a game don't have teammates that miss wide open shots. How come it's always that Kobe never has enough help :laugh2:

It can't be a coincidence throughout a 17 year period Lakers play better as team when Kobe passes the ball and don't hogg it for jacking up.

Again,

1-12 or something when he scores 30+.
0-3 when he scores 40 or more.
8-3 when he has 5 or more assists.

It doesn't demand brilliance and genius to realize what's the correlation between how Kobe play and how they win.

then you are not very brilliant.

games won - games lost when Kobe scores 30+

97-98: 1-1
98-99: 2-0
99-00: 8-0
00-01: 20-10
01-02: 13-5
02-03: 30-12
03-04: 15-4

post-shaq:

04-05: 15-15
05-06: 33-23
06-07: 21-17
07-08: 25-11
08-09: 21-6
09-10: 19-10
10-11: 17-6
11-12: 17-7
12-13: 1-11

so now that Kobe has the best supporting since Shaq's departure that the Lakers are losing while Kobe scores 30+? What happened 05-12? Kobe had better supporting those years? :laugh2:

here are the percentages for ya:
winning percentage when Kobe scores 30+ (career)

Regular Season Career: 259-137
.654 W-L%

Playoff Career: 57-31
.648 W-L%

right it's all Kobe's 30+ points that's hurting the team. But when he scores right at 29 or less, his team miraculously does better. :rolleyes:

Saad
12-15-2012, 01:38 PM
No reason he should be taking 29 shots, but you really are going to pull one game out of proportion? Suddenly he's not allowing the team to 'gel' :confused:

Averaging only 20.6 FGA this year. And only because he's had to take upon a bigger offensive load with Nash + Pau gone. Yeah Howard needs more shots, but without Pau he gets doubled HARD every time he touches the ball and usually passes it back out. He also isnt 100% and you can tell by watching him that sometimes his effort is always there. I mean when he's catching the ball 15 ft from the rim because he couldnt get deeper position, I dont think he's going to be scoring much fromt hat. Add into the fact that whenever he even gets close to dunking it, he shoots F/Ts which wont show up as shots unless he makes it.

And God you people are milking the 1-9 thing SO hard. I remember seeing some stat on twitter where the Lakers are 80-40~ when Kobe scores 30+ in the last 5 years. Bottom line it works, albeit last night was a poor shooting performance but a lot of the nights he has reached that 30 pretty efficiently.

Also if you watched the games, or not have a bias against the Lakers, you'll realize that Kobe only goes into Hero mode because they start falling behind. Half the time he keeps them close all by himself.

Bottom line 29 FGA is WAY too much. But please dont use one game to try make it seem like "he's the one that wont allow this team to gel" like what??

jchase3
12-15-2012, 01:39 PM
Haters will be haters.

Baller1
12-15-2012, 01:39 PM
I'm just gonna leave this thread alone. :laugh2:

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-15-2012, 01:39 PM
The only reason Howard shoots so few attempts is because he either gets fouled on a shot attempt or he is doubled constantly, he gets plenty of touches though, (just ask manram if its true or not)but yes Kobe shot to much yesterday we got the W who cares oh and he scored 30 and the lakers still won!
He also had 7 assist he could have had like 5 more that I counted when his teammates were wide open for layups or 3-pointers and they failed to make them

AnthonyTyrael
12-15-2012, 01:40 PM
About Howard. How many shots did he get (during most games) when he was part of the Orlando Magic? I've watched enough games where he wasn't the scoring option number one or two either and got less than ten shots per games quiet often. Exagerrated, you've almost got to force him to score. Forcing him to be the force that he could be. He is so dominant, or should it be but already lost it on the defensive end. He's not as dominant as Shaq was but he should be the next best thing that comes close to him today.

Kobe was always like that. Not going to defend him but...it depends... he's both, blessing and curse sometimes. If he is hitting his shots, he's gold, but if he's having a bad day and all others too...or if he is in his mode... or if he's just trying to safe it somehow... I don't know, this time, right now, just like a few seasons ago, it seems that he's having no confidence and trust in his team mates. If so, that's for a reason. If he's right or wrong, who can tell? They all gotta adjust. No chemistry, no trust, some injuries... we can see the outcome.

Just saying on paper the Lakers are looking good with Kobe, Howard, Nash, Metta, Jamison etc. but in reality... it doesn't seem to fit (yet) and still there's no depth. Lakers should be familiar with that situation, no matter what their records told us in the past.

Teeboy1487
12-15-2012, 01:42 PM
No reason he should be taking 29 shots, but you really are going to pull one game out of proportion? Suddenly he's not allowing the team to 'gel' :confused:

Averaging only 20.6 FGA this year. And only because he's had to take upon a bigger offensive load with Nash + Pau gone. Yeah Howard needs more shots, but without Pau he gets doubled HARD every time he touches the ball and usually passes it back out. He also isnt 100% and you can tell by watching him that sometimes his effort is always there. I mean when he's catching the ball 15 ft from the rim because he couldnt get deeper position, I dont think he's going to be scoring much fromt hat. Add into the fact that whenever he even gets close to dunking it, he shoots F/Ts which wont show up as shots unless he makes it.

And God you people are milking the 1-9 thing SO hard. I remember seeing some stat on twitter where the Lakers are 80-40~ when Kobe scores 30+ in the last 5 years. Bottom line it works, albeit last night was a poor shooting performance but a lot of the nights he has reached that 30 pretty efficiently.

Also if you watched the games, or not have a bias against the Lakers, you'll realize that Kobe only goes into Hero mode because they start falling behind. Half the time he keeps them close all by himself.

Bottom line 29 FGA is WAY too much. But please dont use one game to try make it seem like "he's the one that wont allow this team to gel" like what??
Another great post and I do agree that Kobe is shooting too much. He is also playing too many minutes. He played 88 minutes in the last two games on back to back nights while having back spasms.

lakers4sho
12-15-2012, 01:42 PM
The only reason Howard shoots so few attempts is because he either gets fouled on a shot attempt or he is doubled constantly, he gets plenty of touches though, (just ask manram if its true or not)but yes Kobe shot to much yesterday we got the W who cares oh and he scored 30 and the lakers still won!
He also had 7 assist he could have had like 5 more that I counted when his teammates were wide open for layups or 3-pointers and they failed to make them

nah brah kobe's a ballhog

Heediot
12-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Lakers trade Kobe and Pau

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ccflycq

PG Nash - J. Holliday - D. Morris
SG D. Wright (starter because he can shoot) - E. Turner - J. Richardson
SF T. Young - N. Young - MWP
PF S. Hawes - L. Allen - A. Jamison
C D. Howard - J. Hill - R. Sacre

Lakers improve their bench and get a stretch 4 hahahaha

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-15-2012, 01:48 PM
Bait thread. Closing.