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View Full Version : UNC players not as good as they used to be



HouRealCoach
12-14-2012, 01:27 PM
Back in the day UNC produced all stars & superstars like MJ, Worthy, Sheed, Stackhouse, Jamison, Carter... As of late (From 2000 on) we have seen nothing more than role players (with the exception of Ty Lawson and maybe Felton) but Sean May, Marvin Williams, Tyler Hansbrough, Wayne Ellington, Brandon Wright, Rashad McCants, Ed Davis, Danny Green, etc. Also, I don't see it in Harrison Barnes, Marshall, Henson, & Zeller to become someone. However, I do think McAdoo will be someone.

I know everyone isn't going to be an all star but this is a dramatic fall to have go from producing that caliber to where they are now.

What happened? Was it Dean Smith?

Cano4prez
12-14-2012, 01:29 PM
Ok

ewing
12-14-2012, 01:31 PM
College basketball has changed a lot

sep11ie
12-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Look at the players you listed. It's hard to just produce them on a constant basis.

HouRealCoach
12-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Look at the players you listed. It's hard to just produce them on a constant basis.

Calipari is on a 5 year run right now and shows no signs of letting up

dhopisthename
12-14-2012, 01:58 PM
you mean the john calipari that has wins vacated because he cheats the system? Also, while callipari is has gotten some good nba talent he is also always retooling his roster after every year because they all leave

THE MTL
12-14-2012, 02:05 PM
UNC teams however have produced loads of NBA players.....which is a huge accomplishment in itself.

TheMoneyTeam
12-14-2012, 02:14 PM
unc teams however have produced loads of nba players.....which is a huge accomplishment in itself.

+1

chitown4eva88
12-14-2012, 02:28 PM
Most of the players these days leave school to early. Half the players you mentioned either left freshman or sophomore year. No way you can become a stud in the NBA without polishing your game in college. There are only a few exceptions like KD, LBJ, Kobe, T-Mac, and KG.

kingjaymes23
12-14-2012, 02:29 PM
I laugh to myself everytime this dumb point is made. Look at the best players in the league. In fact, look at the All Stars from last season. Are they all from the same college? No they are not. The best players in the game (Durant, James, Kobe, Melo) all went to different schools or no school at all. There were two teams I believe that had multiple All Stars, and that was Texas and Wake Forrest. Let's just stop with the argument right there because that says something about your statement.

Also Lawson is playing well, Danny Green is a starter on a top team....its not like they dont produce anybody at all

Ebbs
12-14-2012, 02:31 PM
I think Barnes can be legit

tapajafri
12-14-2012, 05:04 PM
Calipari is on a 5 year run right now and shows no signs of letting up

Part of the thing is these one and done freshmen. Schools like NC and Duke try to recruit more players that will actually be there for their junior, maybe senior, years. Calipari is going for these one-and-done superstar freshmen that would be going straight to the NBA from HS if they didn't change the rule. So the stars Calipari is recruiting are going to be usually better and have way more potential since they could go to the NBA out of HS whereas NC tries to recruit more players that will be there for 2-4 years. You mention Jamison, Carter, etc, but that was a long time ago. College basketball has changed. I think that's a significant part of the answer to your post.

Zeller and Barnes and others don't have the upside and potential that Calipari and his guys like Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, Tyreke Evans, etc have.

HouRealCoach
12-14-2012, 05:10 PM
Most of the players these days leave school to early. Half the players you mentioned either left freshman or sophomore year. No way you can become a stud in the NBA without polishing your game in college. There are only a few exceptions like KD, LBJ, Kobe, T-Mac, and KG.

I'll add to the list... Westbrook, Rose, Love, Evans, Wall, Cousins, Melo, Amare, Griffin. There are plenty of all stars in the league right now who didn't spend 3 or 4 years in college,so in this era it isn't as big as it was back then, I really don't understand what your'e saying


I laugh to myself everytime this dumb point is made. Look at the best players in the league. In fact, look at the All Stars from last season. Are they all from the same college? No they are not. The best players in the game (Durant, James, Kobe, Melo) all went to different schools or no school at all. There were two teams I believe that had multiple All Stars, and that was Texas and Wake Forrest. Let's just stop with the argument right there because that says something about your statement.

Also Lawson is playing well, Danny Green is a starter on a top team....its not like they dont produce anybody at all

Who are you responding to? No one said every NBA all star comes from the same school...

Mr.SmackYoMama
12-14-2012, 05:12 PM
Barnes is the truth eat a Dikc!

CavsYanksDuke
12-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Inferior coaching.

kingjaymes23
12-14-2012, 05:26 PM
I'll add to the list... Westbrook, Rose, Love, Evans, Wall, Cousins, Melo, Amare, Griffin. There are plenty of all stars in the league right now who didn't spend 3 or 4 years in college,so in this era it isn't as big as it was back then, I really don't understand what your'e saying



Who are you responding to? No one said every NBA all star comes from the same school...

Why single out UNC then? Why not say, why hasn't Arizona produced a great PG like they used to do all the time? Why doesn't Duke produce big men anymore? Why doesn't Cuse ever produce anybody that's worth anything outside of Melo? Indiana?

There are a list of teams that aren't producing anything. UNC has put a lot of guys into the league as of late. Their resume may still be more impressive than any non Calishady led school.

2-ONE-5
12-14-2012, 05:28 PM
some players just arent able to translat their game to the next level, espcially tweeners like Marvin Williams and Wright. I hate when players leave after a year when they barely produced in college and still go first round and rot in the D-league shortly after.

kingjaymes23
12-14-2012, 05:43 PM
Inferior coaching.

Good one....since Roy took over at UNC:

Championships:
UNC 2
Duke 1

Final Fours:
UNC 3
Duke 2

Elite 8s:
UNC 6
Duke 2

kingjaymes23
12-14-2012, 05:44 PM
some players just arent able to translat their game to the next level, espcially tweeners like Marvin Williams and Wright. I hate when players leave after a year when they barely produced in college and still go first round and rot in the D-league shortly after.

Same. I really wish the system could be fixed. Either allow these kids to go straight to the NBA or make them stay 2 years. The one and dones are killing college basketball as we see this year. This may be one of the weakest years of college basketball I can remember (2010 and 2011 were rather weak as well though).

Sactown
12-14-2012, 05:47 PM
I love Harrison Barnes game, wish the Kings drafted him.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2012, 05:48 PM
Impossible to gauge schools now, players leave too early. The big schools get the 5 star recruits, they leave before they have been developed, while the mid-majors, and slightly lesser elite D1 schools, get players who stick a few years, so they have more development.

Back in the day, everyone stayed 3-4 years, so those 5 star prospects were being coached up, developed, and then unleashed into the NBA when they were NBA ready, versus projects nowadays in many cases.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2012, 05:49 PM
I can barely watch NCAA. The quality is so low now.

Sactown
12-14-2012, 05:56 PM
I can barely watch NCAA. The quality is so low now.

I agree, I get tired of watching NCAA teams play as the talent changes to often, I think they should make it 3 years till you can apply for the draft.. It would help the rebuilding process as well, so stupid teams like the Kings don't draft off of "Potential of a 19 YO, instead of a 21YO" I think it would actually add a competitive edge to rebuilding teams, and add a competitive balance around the league, not saying we'd turn into the NFL tho.

HouRealCoach
12-14-2012, 05:59 PM
Why single out UNC then? Why not say, why hasn't Arizona produced a great PG like they used to do all the time? Why doesn't Duke produce big men anymore? Why doesn't Cuse ever produce anybody that's worth anything outside of Melo? Indiana?

There are a list of teams that aren't producing anything. UNC has put a lot of guys into the league as of late. Their resume may still be more impressive than any non Calishady led school.

:facepalm: You make no sense... I singled out UNC because I wanted too. Just like someone singled out Wade falling off but Deron Williams, Just like someone says Kobe scoring is the reason Lakers are losing but not their defense. It's a thread if you don't like it then don't post a reply in it. There's alot of things every thread can be about and it's not wrong to pick some in particular to discuss

I didn't say UNC wasn't producing I said they caliber they used to produce have fallen off. I even listed some players they produced but it still doesn't live up to what they did with those I listed

CavsYanksDuke
12-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Why single out UNC then? Why not say, why hasn't Arizona produced a great PG like they used to do all the time? Why doesn't Duke produce big men anymore? Why doesn't Cuse ever produce anybody that's worth anything outside of Melo? Indiana?

There are a list of teams that aren't producing anything. UNC has put a lot of guys into the league as of late. Their resume may still be more impressive than any non Calishady led school.

Mason Plumlee says "Hi." :cool:

Hawkeye15
12-14-2012, 06:17 PM
I agree, I get tired of watching NCAA teams play as the talent changes to often, I think they should make it 3 years till you can apply for the draft.. It would help the rebuilding process as well, so stupid teams like the Kings don't draft off of "Potential of a 19 YO, instead of a 21YO" I think it would actually add a competitive edge to rebuilding teams, and add a competitive balance around the league, not saying we'd turn into the NFL tho.

either let them come straight out, or make them stay 2 years imo. Kids used to go to college to get developed. The pro's isn't into development like it is into winning.

Its sad now, when I read Chad Ford comment on a 21 year old entering the draft as being "old". What the hell has the NCAA become?

CavsYanksDuke
12-14-2012, 06:26 PM
either let them come straight out, or make them stay 2 years imo. Kids used to go to college to get developed. The pro's isn't into development like it is into winning.

Its sad now, when i read chad ford comment on a 21 year old entering the draft as being "old". What the hell has the ncaa become?

+1

Sactown
12-14-2012, 06:28 PM
either let them come straight out, or make them stay 2 years imo. Kids used to go to college to get developed. The pro's isn't into development like it is into winning.

Its sad now, when I read Chad Ford comment on a 21 year old entering the draft as being "old". What the hell has the NCAA become?

I think they should have to stay for 2-3 years, it would help the NBA become less of a farming league for large markets, and it would also help the NCAA. Stern wants a more competitive league, this would be a good way about going it.. Small Market teams develop players just to let them walk, or over pay them based off of potential.. The NCAA would help lottery teams get more of a "sure thing" while allowing them to properly evaluate them coming into their 4th season where contract extensions are given since the player would be 25 or 26 in stead of 22-23. I think it would open more GM's eyes and allow them to properly evaluate talent, while it would help players develop more naturally in college instead of forcing their way into the NBA.

dc5jdm
12-14-2012, 06:31 PM
UCLA has produced better NBA talent.

2-ONE-5
12-14-2012, 06:33 PM
Good one....since Roy took over at UNC:

Championships:
UNC 2
Duke 1

Final Fours:
UNC 3
Duke 2

Elite 8s:
UNC 6
Duke 2

yea but Duke players actually take real classes and get their degrees, same cant be said for most UNC players...

kingjaymes23
12-15-2012, 02:08 AM
Mason Plumlee says "Hi." :cool:

LMAO you really just named him.....I'm sure he will be great in the NBA. That tells me all I need to know about your basketball knowledge :laugh:

kingjaymes23
12-15-2012, 02:15 AM
yea but Duke players actually take real classes and get their degrees, same cant be said for most UNC players...

No point in arguing especially since Duke had a little academic scandal of their own a few years ago. You must not remember that one (selective memory I guess). Roy makes all of his players get their degree also. Same cant be said for Duke. I'm guessing Irving and Rivers won't be taking a class again at Duke ever.

I can go on with a list of things Duke has done, but I'm sure you will say I'm making it up. Maggete, recruiting violations.... Keep trying to throw stones at UNC though. I'm sure you can throw them really well from that glass house you live in

MrfadeawayJB
12-15-2012, 02:49 AM
who cares

JasonJohnHorn
12-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Well... I think the same can be said about a lot of teams. NC had a streak going where they were very lucky with the talent that came through. From Jordan in the 80's, to VC, and everything in between. They had some very talented players come through, and still do til this day. They are a huge program. And yes, you've illustrated a good point in that some of the players aren't playing at as high a level as guys from the past, but I think the fact that they still produce guys who come in the NBA and will have long careers indicates that their recruiting is still among the best in college. There are many colleges who can count on one hand the number of NBA players they produce, while NC has at least one or two every season.

I think part of the issue is that the NC brand isn't as popular as it once was. I remember (and I live in Canada across the boarder from Detroit) in highschool that there were essentially four colleges who basketball fans had hats for, Michigan, Michigan State (being from the Detroit area, that is expected) and Duke and NC. Duke won a lot. NC won a lot. So young players were drawn to those schoold because they knew it would put them on a the big stage, that they'd be in a position to win and that they would in turn likely be in better position to be drafted high. I mean, let's be honest, NBA teams will sometimes draft guys based more on the program they come out of than their actual performance. There are tons of guys in college who put up great stats on teams that aren't that good and go undrafted, while teams with less than stellar stats on big programs go in the first round. But NC hasn't been winning as much the way they did back in the day, and I don't see their merchandise around as much as I use to, so I imagine they aren't as popular.

Coupled with that, they have less time to work on the finished product. Let's be honest, most guys who have NBA potential only spend one year in college, where as in the 80's it was common for guys to play all four years in college, and then those systems that are well coached and are good at developing talents and making players better, like Duke and Michigan state and NC, have more time to work with the players and when they get to the NBA they make an impact straight away. No, they have one year to work with these guys. Like Austin Rivers, for example. No way that guy gets drafted in the first round after only playing one season in say, 1989. But having his father's name and playing in a big program, he comes out after one year where he still hasn't developed his shot and goes in the lottery. It's crazy really.

So yeah... their players haven't been as good lately, but they are still quality NBA players that they are producing every year, so that in and of itself is still an accomplishment.

I think too since Dean Smith retired they haven't had a coach that is such a strong draw. I mean, Dead Smith is considered by many to be among the greatest coaches ever. Some put him on a par with Phil Jackson. So even thoguh they have a good coaching staff now, their coaching staff is not a draw like Dean Smith was, or like Coach K is today.

Heediot
12-15-2012, 12:14 PM
Kentucky players seems to work out fairly well in the NBA, even before Calipari.

Jodie Meeks - 2nd rounder still in the NBA, can score the ball and has found a niche in the league as a backup, although he is struggling with the lakers this year.
Chuck Hayes - Undrafted, is a solid role player and capable fill-in starter
Rajon Rondo - Upper echleon PG drafted in the late teems of the first round
Kelenna Azubuike undrafted became a decent role player before injuries derailed him
Kieth Bogans - 2nd round pick, found a niche as a backup and stop-gap started. Decent defender.
Jamal Magloire - Was aslightly above average big in his prime. Drafted in the late teens of the first made one all-star game.
Tayshaun Prince - Very good defender and role player. Drafted late in the first round.
Joe Crawford - Late 2nd round pick, out of the league.

Calipari guys
Eric Bledsoe - Rising young Pg in the league with elite defense. Drafted 1-19
DeMarcus Cousins - High potential big but has mental lapses and temper issues. Drafted top 5
Josh Harrelson - 2nd Round pick, end of the bench player.
MKG, Davis, Teague, Lamb, Darius Mille, T.Jonesr -All Rookies, too soon to tell.
John Wall - Sklow start and underwhelming career. Injuries have slowed him this year. 1st overall pick
Patrick Patterson - Solid starter for the Rockets. Drafted late lottery.
Brandon Knight - Inconsitent young PG. Still has upside.
Enes Kanter - Top 5 pick. Has upside, lack of minutes due to deep Utak frontcourt.
DeAndre Liggins - Late 2nd Round Pick, D Leaguer

Randolph Morris and Daniel Orton are the obvious flops.

As you can see Randolph who was un-drafted (due to some issues in college) with a decent ceiling flopped. Daniel Orton a late 1st round pick has flopped. Last, John Wall has not lived up to the hype, but many still think Wall could still become a borderline All-star player or more. Kentucky has produced a lot of solid NBA players since 2000 and a decent chunk of them have actually over-achieved. Even those that weren't drafted in the lottery has shown value to the league. This school has shown consistency in developing NBA talent for the last 13 years.

HouRealCoach
12-15-2012, 12:29 PM
Kentucky players seems to work out fairly well in the NBA, even before Calipari.

Jodie Meeks - 2nd rounder still in the NBA, can score the ball and has found a niche in the league as a backup, although he is struggling with the lakers this year.
Chuck Hayes - Undrafted, is a solid role player and capable fill-in starter
Rajon Rondo - Upper echleon PG drafted in the late teems of the first round
Kelenna Azubuike undrafted became a decent role player before injuries derailed him
Kieth Bogans - 2nd round pick, found a niche as a backup and stop-gap started. Decent defender.
Jamal Magloire - Was aslightly above average big in his prime. Drafted in the late teens of the first made one all-star game.
Tayshaun Prince - Very good defender and role player. Drafted late in the first round.
Joe Crawford - Late 2nd round pick, out of the league.

Calipari guys
Eric Bledsoe - Rising young Pg in the league with elite defense. Drafted 1-19
DeMarcus Cousins - High potential big but has mental lapses and temper issues. Drafted top 5
Josh Harrelson - 2nd Round pick, end of the bench player.
MKG, Davis, Teague, Lamb, Darius Mille, T.Jonesr -All Rookies, too soon to tell.
John Wall - Sklow start and underwhelming career. Injuries have slowed him this year. 1st overall pick
Patrick Patterson - Solid starter for the Rockets. Drafted late lottery.
Brandon Knight - Inconsitent young PG. Still has upside.
Enes Kanter - Top 5 pick. Has upside, lack of minutes due to deep Utak frontcourt.
DeAndre Liggins - Late 2nd Round Pick, D Leaguer

Randolph Morris and Daniel Orton are the obvious flops.

As you can see Randolph who was un-drafted (due to some issues in college) with a decent ceiling flopped. Daniel Orton a late 1st round pick has flopped. Last, John Wall has not lived up to the hype, but many still think Wall could still become a borderline All-star player or more. Kentucky has produced a lot of solid NBA players since 2000 and a decent chunk of them have actually over-achieved. Even those that weren't drafted in the lottery has shown value to the league. This school has shown consistency in developing NBA talent for the last 13 years.

Daniel Orton came out too early... I hate when bench warmers show no signs of promise but still get drafted that early just to become a flop. Also, Kanter wasn't really a Calipari guy because he didn't play college. But I hate Calipari, he is destroying college ball with these stacked teams full of one & dones

greg_ory_2005
12-15-2012, 01:13 PM
Sean Mayne muh****as. AKA the greatest Tarheel ever. :clap:

AndyfromNeptune
12-15-2012, 01:57 PM
yea but Duke players actually take real classes and get their degrees, same cant be said for most UNC players...

As someone who goes to UNC and is in classes with most of the basketball and football players, this is blatantly false.

Each player has a mentor that goes to each one of their classes to make sure they show up. They receive mandatory "study times" throughout the weeks that they have to go to. They also have tutors that go all hours including well into the morning working with them or alongside them.

There have been days where I have pulled all-nighters next to Gio Bernard or Desmond Hubert.

For you to make that statement based off of nothing is just inaccurate and reflective of the typical Duke hubris that so many people despise.

CavsYanksDuke
12-15-2012, 02:21 PM
LMAO you really just named him.....I'm sure he will be great in the NBA. That tells me all I need to know about your basketball knowledge :laugh:

Typical UNC logic. No facts, no reasons, and a touch of racism.

ThuglifeJ
12-15-2012, 06:21 PM
Calipari is on a 5 year run right now and shows no signs of letting up

Has Kentucky produced an MJ, Carter, Sheed, or Worthy? Besides Derrick Rose, no.

UNC still produced guys lately like Lawson, Barnes.

AndyfromNeptune
12-15-2012, 06:38 PM
Typical UNC logic. No facts, no reasons, and a touch of racism.

I'll ignore your first two points because they are unfouded, but the racism comment is just insulting to the university.

Granted, there are racist individuals at any university across the country, but UNC historically has been extremely diverse and open-minded especially towards racial barriers. We had the first black scholar basketball player in the country.

Franklin Street was certainly live when President Obama won.

And from my time at UNC, I have never gotten the vibe that there were racist people there.

I think you need to check the facts.

rocket
12-15-2012, 06:41 PM
UNC = Automatic superstar.

Heediot
12-15-2012, 07:13 PM
Has Kentucky produced an MJ, Carter, Sheed, or Worthy? Besides Derrick Rose, no.

UNC still produced guys lately like Lawson, Barnes.

Rose was Memphis, but he is a Calipari player so I'll give you some credit for that.

The OP asked what has UNC has done lately in producing elite talent? Relative to where the UNC/UK players were slotted in their respective draft years, Kentucky has produced more players that give expected value (since 2000). Rondo is the only guy on either schools that one could actually say is an upper echelon player.

kingjaymes23
12-15-2012, 07:17 PM
Typical UNC logic. No facts, no reasons, and a touch of racism.

Yeah.....I also think Quinn Cook sucks so am I still racist?