PDA

View Full Version : 2004 Pistons and the HOF



JasonJohnHorn
12-14-2012, 09:53 AM
Simple question. The 2004 Pistons were an amazing team. Two straight finals appearances, and 6 straight conference finals appearances. But they were a 'team' in the true sense of the word. Their anchor and captain was Ben Wallace, was 7th on the team in scoring. Finals MVP Chaucney Billups averaged 16+ points and 5+ assists, pretty good, but perhaps not MVP numbers for most teams. The team's leading scoring didn't even average 20 a game.

Still, it was a very special team. But my question is, how many of the starters from that team will make the HOF? Here are the starters:

Billups
Hamliton
Prince
Sheed
Big Ben


Which of those five will make the HOF?

ewing
12-14-2012, 09:55 AM
None

JiffyMix88
12-14-2012, 10:19 AM
None

:clap:

cleptopot
12-14-2012, 10:19 AM
Only billups and ben

Jint.
12-14-2012, 10:35 AM
only Big Ben..

HouRealCoach
12-14-2012, 10:36 AM
Billups & Ben.. Maybe Sheed

RipCity32
12-14-2012, 10:39 AM
Ben Wallace should and I dont know if Billups should be in the Hall Of Fame or not but he was one of the best floor generals Ive seen in that stretch.He didnt wow you with his numbers but he was in complete control of that team when he was on the floor.

ewing
12-14-2012, 10:46 AM
Billups & Ben.. Maybe Sheed


Really? Sheed had a ton of game but choose to be a role player. I love the guy but he choose to be a floor spacer instead of a force and took a lot of nights off. Billups had a sustained career i just don't think he is good enough and Wallace only had 6 good years as a one way player. If your going to get in for defensive and rebounding alone you have to do it for a longer period.

Sorry i don't see any HOFers on that team and think Billups is the only guy in the ball park.

HowFit
12-14-2012, 10:50 AM
Billups and Ben...

ShockerArt
12-14-2012, 10:55 AM
They were all very good players. IMO, none of them are HOFers. I'm always in favor of smaller, more exclusive HOFs in every sport. So, I wouldn't consider any of those guys to be all that close.

cleptopot
12-14-2012, 11:41 AM
They were all very good players. IMO, none of them are HOFers. I'm always in favor of smaller, more exclusive HOFs in every sport. So, I wouldn't consider any of those guys to be all that close.
:facepalm:

ewing
12-14-2012, 11:48 AM
:facepalm:


Why the face palm? I doubt any of those guys ever made a 1st team all NBA. If you disagree make a argument. He even said he thinks the Hall should be more selective (i happened to agree). The Pistons were a very good and balanced team individuals shouldn't leap frog into the HOF b/c of that.

mightybosstone
12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
Hamiltion, Prince and Sheed are all definite "no"s. Ben should be a lock based on his four DPOY awards and easily being the best defensive player of his era, but the Hall doesn't always recognize players just for great defensive play, so even he is up in the air. Billups is an interesting case, because his points and assists stats are not sexy, but he was insanely efficient, he won a Finals MVP and he was one of the best defensive players for his position of his era.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Wallace and Billups both eventually get in, but neither will be anywhere close to first ballot guys.

kingkenny01
12-14-2012, 12:00 PM
Honestly none of them deserve the hall of fame, but that was what was so amazing about this team when do you see a team with no clear cut hall of famers.

Avenged
12-14-2012, 12:03 PM
Billups is an NBA Champion, Finals MVP, has a handful of all-star games, a few all-NBA teams, couple all NBA defensive teams, and 2 gold medals. He gets in.

Ben Wallace is up in the air since he wasn't great offensively. He was a 4 time defensive player of the year though (by which he holds the record).

Gators123
12-14-2012, 12:20 PM
Ben Wallace should.

Hellcrooner
12-14-2012, 12:36 PM
odds

Ben 60%
Billups 40%
Sheed 30%
Hamilton 5%
Prince 1%

cleptopot
12-14-2012, 12:46 PM
Why the face palm? I doubt any of those guys ever made a 1st team all NBA. If you disagree make a argument. He even said he thinks the Hall should be more selective (i happened to agree). The Pistons were a very good and balanced team individuals shouldn't leap frog into the HOF b/c of that.
Making the all nba first team isnt the only thing needed in order to make the hall. :facepalm:
Billups has a good enough resume to make it.
NBA champion (2004)
NBA Finals MVP (2004)
5 NBA All-Star (20062010)
All-NBA Second Team (2006)
2 All-NBA Third Team (2007, 2009)
2 NBA All-Defensive Second Team (20052006)

Career numbers of 15.5 ppg, 5.5 apg. Solid numbers (would be higher if it werent for his first fews years)

Heediot
12-14-2012, 12:54 PM
Ben Wallce, NO. He only had a good to great 7 years stretch.

Will 2 BE
12-14-2012, 01:02 PM
Ben Wallace will get in, mabey the best undrafted player ever. Defensive player of the year, mulitple NBA allstar selections, and an NBA champ

JordansBulls
12-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Ben Wallace easily. He was the only allstar on the squad at the time.

ewing
12-14-2012, 01:11 PM
Making the all nba first team isnt the only thing needed in order to make the hall. :facepalm:
Billups has a good enough resume to make it.
NBA champion (2004)
NBA Finals MVP (2004)
5 NBA All-Star (2006–2010)
All-NBA Second Team (2006)
2 All-NBA Third Team (2007, 2009)
2 NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2005–2006)

Career numbers of 15.5 ppg, 5.5 apg. Solid numbers (would be higher if it werent for his first fews years)


Stop being an ahole. I didn't say that it being 1st team all NBA was a requirement to get in the hall. I mentioned it b/c the first poster you face palmed said he felt the hall should be more restrictive and he didn't feel any of these players met his standard of HOF worthiness. I would assume he is talking about players that are bit more elite then these guys. The kind of dominate stars that usually get 1st team all NBA honors multiple times.

As for Billups, i said he was in the ball park. 16 and 6 is pretty indicative of his career though and is not that skewed. He was a little better then that in his prime but that is pretty much is who he has been. Solid, consistent, good defender, with a steadying hand. The fact that he did it over time and was leader on winning teams plus the 2 golds might get him in. I wouldn't be upset if he got in, i like Billups. I'm just not positive he will

Steelers23_06
12-14-2012, 01:22 PM
How are you guys questioning Wallace. There is no doubt in my mind that he should be a HOFer. You guys on this site are such stat dorks. It doesn't matter that his offense was trash he was one of the best if not the best, if not the best defensive big man in the game. You guys act like the HOF is for statitcal gods but if Mullins made it there is no doubt in my mind that Big Ben should. Possibly others from this team but there shouldn't even be a question about Ben Wallace. I'm not saying first ballot but if he doesn't make it...wow.

ewing
12-14-2012, 01:26 PM
How are you guys questioning Wallace. There is no doubt in my mind that he should be a HOFer. You guys on this site are such stat dorks. It doesn't matter that his offense was trash he was one of the best if not the best, if not the best defensive big man in the game. You guys act like the HOF is for statitcal gods but if Mullins made it there is no doubt in my mind that Big Ben should. Possibly others from this team but there shouldn't even be a question about Ben Wallace. I'm not saying first ballot but if he doesn't make it...wow.


His peak was short. If he continued to be a defensive and rebounding mence like Deke I'd say he is in no doubt. He only played on one side of side of the ball, he wasn't great for an extended period, and when he got the big contract and left the system in det he fell off the table. 4 DPOY awards might get him in but i don't think it should.

Hellcrooner
12-14-2012, 01:52 PM
people arguing bout ben wallace should definetly get in:

Bobby jones is not in the Hof, and he is a top 5 defensive player all time 5 times allstar, and with like 10 consecutive all defensive teams ( whis hole ****ing career) and has a ring too.


Wallaces fro will help tough, same it helped Rodman, a built in image is a + in terms of the members of the hof remembering bout you.

so, i still say 60% odds.

Stinkyoutsider
12-14-2012, 01:54 PM
I don't think any of them get in? Billips and Wallace may be the closest to the hall from that team though.

Chronz
12-14-2012, 02:35 PM
I've been saying it for years but anyone who isn't wowed by Chauncey's numbers doesnt understand how uniquely efficient he was. 2nd most efficient PG of our generation (behind only Nash) and a better defender to boot. Hes easily a HOF player if I were running it. Instead, no one knows whos voting for the damn thing so who knows what their criteria is but something tells me they will get a stiffy for his accolades (rings, medals, mvp's, etc..)

Chronz
12-14-2012, 02:35 PM
odds

Ben 60%
Billups 40%
Sheed 30%
Hamilton 5%
Prince 1%

Show me a single Gold Medalist/Finals MVP that isnt in the HOF.

Your estimates are wrong

Hellcrooner
12-14-2012, 02:42 PM
Show me a single Gold Medalist/Finals MVP that isnt in the HOF.

Your estimates are wrong

You are singing to the choir.

I would indeed pace billups in the hof.

But he is not flashy, and has not been particulary notorius, and that **** affects the votations, is a fact, how many goddam years took them to put Wilkes in? or Artis ?

for me Billups >>>>>> IVerson,carter, Tmac.
But you will see how they get EARLIER to the thing out of hype and being notorius.

Im still waiting for Bobby Jones to get in, wich should have been done years ago.
Or for M cooper to get in ( tough im obviously biased here).

DreamShaker
12-14-2012, 02:47 PM
Billups is an NBA Champion, Finals MVP, has a handful of all-star games, a few all-NBA teams, couple all NBA defensive teams, and 2 gold medals. He gets in.

Ben Wallace is up in the air since he wasn't great offensively. He was a 4 time defensive player of the year though (by which he holds the record).

Tied with Mutombo. I think Big Ben gets in. Billups might eventually, although there are more deserving guys who are not in, like Moncreif and Bernard King.

Chronz
12-14-2012, 02:48 PM
You are singing to the choir.

I would indeed pace billups in the hof.

But he is not flashy, and has not been particulary notorius, and that **** affects the votations, is a fact, how many goddam years took them to put Wilkes in? or Artis ?

for me Billups >>>>>> IVerson,carter, Tmac.
But you will see how they get EARLIER to the thing out of hype and being notorius.

Im still waiting for Bobby Jones to get in, wich should have been done years ago.
Or for M cooper to get in ( tough im obviously biased here).

They have made several mistakes but this one is a no brainer because traditionally the committee values winners (not hype). Chauncey has won in different stages and has a sterling reputation as leader/professional. And I seriously doubt Tmac makes it to the HOF (though he should).

Chauncey doesnt fit the bill you laid on him

Hellcrooner
12-14-2012, 02:57 PM
They have made several mistakes but this one is a no brainer because traditionally the committee values winners (not hype). Chauncey has won in different stages and has a sterling reputation as leader/professional. And I seriously doubt Tmac makes it to the HOF (though he should).

Chauncey doesnt fit the bill you laid on him

your thoughts on Cooper and Jones?

Chronz
12-14-2012, 03:33 PM
your thoughts on Cooper and Jones?

Jones should eventually make the Hall, part of me think some of the higher ups on the committee resent ABA players, would explain Gilmore and him.

Cooper was OK but its kind of like putting a flashier Bowen in the HOF. Not my thing

Heediot
12-14-2012, 03:44 PM
Honestly, Wallace is a beast defensively, but I don't think he had the longevity of a guy like Rodman. Rodman proved to be a beast defensively and rebounding everywhere he went and well into his 30's. He did it more consistently and for a much longer period. He also had 5 rings to help his case, not taking anything away from Wallace in this regard.

2-ONE-5
12-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Wallace maybe. But when I think Billups I sure dont think HOF.

Kashmir13579
12-14-2012, 06:12 PM
None

You can't be serious.. I'd say Ben Wallace and Billups are both shoe-ins.

Kashmir13579
12-14-2012, 06:15 PM
I've been saying it for years but anyone who isn't wowed by Chauncey's numbers doesnt understand how uniquely efficient he was. 2nd most efficient PG of our generation (behind only Nash) and a better defender to boot. Hes easily a HOF player if I were running it. Instead, no one knows whos voting for the damn thing so who knows what their criteria is but something tells me they will get a stiffy for his accolades (rings, medals, mvp's, etc..)

Best pull-up 3pt shooting PG i've ever seen.