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View Full Version : Was Jordan Good For The Game?



JasonJohnHorn
12-13-2012, 05:20 PM
I know what the response is going to be initiallly: Of course he was. Either that or: Why is JJH making another thread.

But I asked you to listen before you answer. I will be referencing wiki for ratings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings


In 1976 the NBA finals got a 11.5 share in Neilson ratings. The following year, when Philly played Portland, over 12. Pretty impressive at the time since it was considered a niche sport. The next few seasons were single digit, but by the time Magic became a house-hold name and made his second finals appearance, the finals got a 13 point rating (1982). From then on, the ratings were pretty good. Bird and Magic and Dr. j got people watching basketball and the ratings grew, with a slight backslide in 1990 when the Pistons and Trailblazers faced off. But then things really took off, in thanks to large part because of Jordan. Jordan's first finals appearance garnered the second highest NBA finals ratings of the time, behind only a Bird/Magic match-up several years prior. The next year it dipped again (apparently a Drexler/Jordan match-up wasn't as exciting as a Magic/Jordan match-up). The following year the finals set a new ratings record as Barkley and jordan squared off. Then Jordan retired... and for two years the ratings were good... but not that good. The lowest finals ratings for some years (outside of the Detroit/Portland match-up). But Jordan came back, and the ratings went up again. The 1996 finals were the second highest ratings ever at the time, and the 1997 finals replaced it as the second highest rated finals the following season until 1998 where a new record was set (an 18.7 rating). So Jordan was good for business.... while he was playing. The thing is, after 1998, people stopped watching. People had become Jordan fans, not basketball fans. People tuned in to watch Jordan, not basketball. And when Jordan was gone, there was no reason for them to watch. The first year after Jordan had retired, the finals dropped to its lowest ratings since 1981, despite having a big market (NY) in the finals, and despite having 3 of the greatest players to ever play the game in that series (Duncan, Robinson and Ewing). The next trhee years.... Lakers Lakers Lakers, and not even Kobe and Shaq could really get the ratings to where they were. Their highest ratings was 12.1, which wasn't even as high as the Pistons/Portland series. The the Spurs and Nets set a record for lowest ratings for an NBA finals EVER!!!! And one might think that was bad enough, but now, two years later the record was broken when the Spurs and the Cavs faced off: only a 6.2 rating despite the best player on the planet being in the NBA finals. Not even a Boston/LA finals could bring the ratings back up to pre-Jordan ratings, and the NBA finals have rested steady at 10+ rating the last three seasons, never breaking the 11 mark.

So was Jordan good for the game? When he came into his own, the league was healthy. Even a Portland/Detroit series could get over a 12 rating. In fact, the league got over a 12 ratings in the nine seasons leading up to Jordan's finals debut and got over 15 several times.

Post jordan though, the best ratings have been a meager 12.1 in 2001, and not even back-to-back appearances by LBJ managed to break an 11 ratings.

Jordan was a cash cow, he took a popular league and made it even more popular, but once he was gone, he seemed to take the crowds with him. The NBA has stuggled to build back its audience. Stern has done well to globalize the league, so no doubt it does get more viewers and generates more revenue than when Jordan was playing, but Jordan did more with the American market.

It seems his dominance, while good for ratings at the time, but was bad for the long term popularity of the league. It seems that he was perhaps too dominant and that the league has since been unable to attain the level of popularity it had during the Bird/Magic/Dr. J era leading up to the Jordan era.

So what do you think the problem is? Why have the ratings been so dismal? The Celtics and the Suns in 76 and the Trailblazers and 76ers in 77 could get a higher rating than LBJ can get today.

Do we just not have players as exciting as Magic and Bird and Dr. J? Was Jordan just that much more entertaining than Durant and LBJ and Wade?

Did Jordan raise the bar too high?

Let me put it this way, and I am speaking a a heterosexual male when I say this (or perhaps as a lesbian): Jordan is like that REALLY hot girl you dated, the sex was amazing and everything was perfect, until she dumped you (because let's face it, she was batting way below her average when she was dating me). And now, ever girl that comes afterward, while still pretty good (especially the ones that you pay for), just don't compare to that one really hot girl, and therefore, you just don't have sex with your current girlfriend as much as you did with that really hot one because, it's just not as good. And so, you don't turn on the TV to watch basketball as much because it's just not as good as it used to be.

Hellcrooner
12-13-2012, 05:24 PM
Yes at First.
Not long term and im not talking bout t.v ratings here.

nickdymez
12-13-2012, 05:24 PM
:facepalm:

Mr_Jones
12-13-2012, 05:29 PM
mehhhhhh

Changed the game in good ways.. Changed the game in bad ways..

NBAfan4life
12-13-2012, 05:32 PM
You guys do realize how many forms of entertainment people have at their fingertips right? More channels, movies, tv shows, catered to different individual tastes. Online gaming, hell even internet for that matter. Ratings are not a solid indicator.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 05:37 PM
:dance: Amnesty MJ! :dance:

THE_G.O.A.T.
12-13-2012, 05:40 PM
The entire premise for this thread is flawed. You can't compare tv ratings from the 70's to the last decade. There are so many other factors that have more to do with ratings than 1 basketball player.

yanksrock
12-13-2012, 05:48 PM
:facepalm:

SteveNash
12-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Jordan was probably bad for the game, as he had bad fundamentals. Now kids want to be like Mike which means dunking and going for steals. Instead of shooting and fundamental defense.

As for ratings, lots of other factors were going on. The second time Jordan quit the league, there was a lockout, the Eastern conference became pathetic, and they switched from NBC to ABC.

sixer04fan
12-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Was Jordan good for the game? Jordan was the best thing to ever happen to the game.

sep11ie
12-13-2012, 05:51 PM
JasonJohnHorn has been bad for PSD.

SoFreshNsoClean
12-13-2012, 05:53 PM
Jordan was the best thing to ever happen to the game.

Thats subjective. Not everyone feels this way for a variety of reasons.

Not getting into this debate though as i've seen it play out many times always resulting in the same outcome.

Rivera
12-13-2012, 05:53 PM
:facepalm: JJH needs to stop making threads he's worse than JB

Ebbs
12-13-2012, 05:54 PM
He put the NBA at another level. Him Bird, and Magic saved the league

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-13-2012, 06:07 PM
He was one of the best thing to happen for the sport of basketball. magic and bird saved basketball but jordan made it what it is today.

Mitch Kramer
12-13-2012, 06:07 PM
He put the NBA at another level. Him Bird, and Magic saved the league

this.

What a terrible, idiotic, trolling thread.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-13-2012, 06:08 PM
He put the NBA at another level. Him Bird, and Magic saved the league

:)

Hellcrooner
12-13-2012, 06:09 PM
Jordan was probably bad for the game, as he had bad fundamentals. Now kids want to be like Mike which means dunking and going for steals. Instead of shooting and fundamental defense.

As for ratings, lots of other factors were going on. The second time Jordan quit the league, there was a lockout, the Eastern conference became pathetic, and they switched from NBC to ABC.

:facepalm: I ****ing despise M Jordan but saying he had bad fundamentals goes beyond ridicuous.

Hellcrooner
12-13-2012, 06:10 PM
He was one of the best thing to happen for the sport of basketball. magic and bird saved basketball but jordan made it what it is today.

1 Magic and bird saved the NBA not basketball, ncaa and fiba had strong support always.

2 precisely im not sure what nba is today is good.

ILLUSIONIST^248
12-13-2012, 06:17 PM
1 Magic and bird saved the NBA not basketball, ncaa and fiba had strong support always.

2 precisely im not sure what nba is today is good.

Well i was saying the for the united states. Im pretty sure not to many of us follow those leagues very close. I'm not really to sure what you ment in number 2.

edit: I ment fiba not ncaa

JasonJohnHorn
12-13-2012, 06:34 PM
You guys do realize how many forms of entertainment people have at their fingertips right? More channels, movies, tv shows, catered to different individual tastes. Online gaming, hell even internet for that matter. Ratings are not a solid indicator.

The Neilson system is a rating based on percentages, not on number of viewers. So while one might expect viewership to go down for reasons you outline, one would expect that percentages to remain competative. Granted, in the late 70's and early 80's there was not as many choices on TV. CBS, NBA and ABC. But by the time Jordan hit his prime Cable and Satalite television put almost as many options out there as those that exist today.

AIRMAR72
12-13-2012, 06:46 PM
Was Jordan good for the game? Jordan was the best thing to ever happen to the game.

THATS rite, MJ is the mutherfukin BLUEPRINT one of a kind like the great pyramids out in northeast africa

JasonJohnHorn
12-13-2012, 06:55 PM
This is not a troll thread. If anybody thinks that, they are not putting thought into it.

Its like Netflix, and Disney is like Jordan. Disney just signed a contract with Netflix so people can rent Disney movies on Netflix. Disney is great for Netflix... NOW... Netflix's stock increased after the deal was announced. But what happens when this deal expires? Disney will draw people to Netflix, but if Disney leaves Netflix and works out a contract witha rival cable or satalite company, what then? Netflix will have built a large portion of its customer base with Disney fans, and when Disney leaves, so to will a lot of their customers. Will Netflix still have customers after? Sure, but will it be enough to be profitable?

Now, the NBA has struggled with finances, and part of that is inflated player salaries (let's be honest, the TV deals weren't as rich in the 80's and 90's, even when the ratings were better, but owners still made lots because even Jordan was only making 5 million a year).

But the fact of the matter was that Jordan was his own brand. People were drawn to the NBA by Jordan. Jordan had two videos that were ranked among the top video rentals for literally years. SI offered a Jordan video for people who signed up for a subscritpion, and this is BEFORE he made it to the finals. People who didn't follow basketball saw Jordan everywhere and started watching because of Jordan. But when Jordan left, so did those fans, and the base that the NBA had built up, fell, HARD! Jordan was great for ratings and merchandise sales. I couldn't even begin to count the number of Bulls hats I saw in the early-late 90's. And his Nike merchandise STILL sells like crazy.

Now there is obviously the debate about how his style of play influenced the game wrapped up in here to. Is it good that you have guys like Kobe and Mcgrady trying to "be like Mike"? I don't think so. But that is a matter of opinion.

The bottom line is that Jordan was a brand. There is no basketball player in the history of the game that branded themselves like Jordan. NOBODY!! And when the Jordan brand was pulled out from the NBA, the NBA dropped to a place that was lower than it was BEFORE Jordan.

If the ABA was still around and Jordan skipped out of the NBA when he returned to basketball in 96 and joined the ABA, would fans have followed Jordan to the ABA and left the NBA high and dry, destroying all that Bird and Magic had built?

Ask yourself this: If Jordan had never played basketball... where would the NBA be today?

Would it have continued to grow as it was leading into the Jordan era? Would the Knicks vs. the Lakers have gotten ratings like the Bulls vs. the Lakers? Maybe not, but would the ratings have dropped off as drastically in 99 as they did?

There's no way to know the answers to these question. But, it is not a troll thread. simple one that asks you to question the impact of the most popular player to ever play the game.

Bishnoff
12-13-2012, 07:06 PM
Basketball would never have taken off in Australia in the late 80's and early 90's if it wasn't for MJ.

I remember free dress days at primary school where 80% of the guys would wear Jordan jerseys.

punkz
12-13-2012, 07:09 PM
These so-called "Jordan Followers" would not have been attracted to NBA or the game of basketball if it wasn't for Jordan in the first place.

So there might've been a drop in TV ratings after Jordan left, but there would not have been a ratings increase to begin with if Jordan never appeared.

LOOTERX9
12-13-2012, 07:16 PM
Umm this Thread is a waste... yawn

Pierzynski4Prez
12-13-2012, 07:24 PM
:facepalm: I ****ing despise M Jordan but saying he had bad fundamentals goes beyond ridicuous.

Was wondering how long it was gonna be before someone facepalmed that troll. Glad it was you of all people.

Pierzynski4Prez
12-13-2012, 07:26 PM
This is not a troll thread. If anybody thinks that, they are not putting thought into it.

Its like Netflix, and Disney is like Jordan. Disney just signed a contract with Netflix so people can rent Disney movies on Netflix. Disney is great for Netflix... NOW... Netflix's stock increased after the deal was announced. But what happens when this deal expires? Disney will draw people to Netflix, but if Disney leaves Netflix and works out a contract witha rival cable or satalite company, what then? Netflix will have built a large portion of its customer base with Disney fans, and when Disney leaves, so to will a lot of their customers. Will Netflix still have customers after? Sure, but will it be enough to be profitable?

Now, the NBA has struggled with finances, and part of that is inflated player salaries (let's be honest, the TV deals weren't as rich in the 80's and 90's, even when the ratings were better, but owners still made lots because even Jordan was only making 5 million a year).

But the fact of the matter was that Jordan was his own brand. People were drawn to the NBA by Jordan. Jordan had two videos that were ranked among the top video rentals for literally years. SI offered a Jordan video for people who signed up for a subscritpion, and this is BEFORE he made it to the finals. People who didn't follow basketball saw Jordan everywhere and started watching because of Jordan. But when Jordan left, so did those fans, and the base that the NBA had built up, fell, HARD! Jordan was great for ratings and merchandise sales. I couldn't even begin to count the number of Bulls hats I saw in the early-late 90's. And his Nike merchandise STILL sells like crazy.

Now there is obviously the debate about how his style of play influenced the game wrapped up in here to. Is it good that you have guys like Kobe and Mcgrady trying to "be like Mike"? I don't think so. But that is a matter of opinion.

The bottom line is that Jordan was a brand. There is no basketball player in the history of the game that branded themselves like Jordan. NOBODY!! And when the Jordan brand was pulled out from the NBA, the NBA dropped to a place that was lower than it was BEFORE Jordan.

If the ABA was still around and Jordan skipped out of the NBA when he returned to basketball in 96 and joined the ABA, would fans have followed Jordan to the ABA and left the NBA high and dry, destroying all that Bird and Magic had built?

Ask yourself this: If Jordan had never played basketball... where would the NBA be today?

Would it have continued to grow as it was leading into the Jordan era? Would the Knicks vs. the Lakers have gotten ratings like the Bulls vs. the Lakers? Maybe not, but would the ratings have dropped off as drastically in 99 as they did?

There's no way to know the answers to these question. But, it is not a troll thread. simple one that asks you to question the impact of the most popular player to ever play the game.

In that 1 statement right there you just made your entire thread pointless. He drew people to the NBA. Even if it was 1 person (which we know it was not), that is good for the NBA.

Pierzynski4Prez
12-13-2012, 07:31 PM
The Neilson system is a rating based on percentages, not on number of viewers. So while one might expect viewership to go down for reasons you outline, one would expect that percentages to remain competative. Granted, in the late 70's and early 80's there was not as many choices on TV. CBS, NBA and ABC. But by the time Jordan hit his prime Cable and Satalite television put almost as many options out there as those that exist today.

Good post.

sammyvine
12-13-2012, 08:16 PM
Just look at the Jordan Brand if you wanna know what MJ has done.

Only he can bring out trainers that people who have no internet will in ball will wear and rock.

Kobe and Lebron just don't have that popularity.

mdm692
12-13-2012, 08:23 PM
You guys do realize how many forms of entertainment people have at their fingertips right? More channels, movies, tv shows, catered to different individual tastes. Online gaming, hell even internet for that matter. Ratings are not a solid indicator.

If you are using ratings as an excuse than this is the perfect answer. Everything is in the palm of your hand nowadays(Galaxy S3, Iphone 5, PSP, etc).

Greedy22
12-13-2012, 08:24 PM
Jordan was probably bad for the game, as he had bad fundamentals. Now kids want to be like Mike which means dunking and going for steals. Instead of shooting and fundamental defense.

As for ratings, lots of other factors were going on. The second time Jordan quit the league, there was a lockout, the Eastern conference became pathetic, and they switched from NBC to ABC. bad fundamentals? Please just stop

jaydubb
12-13-2012, 08:27 PM
If there was no MJ, half the players in the league would not be playing the way they play.. You know how many ppl wanna be like mike? I'm in that boat too, i remember thinking i was MJ when i was a lil kid, playing against MONstars from a different planet that couldnt stop me.. Thats right... No MJ=no space jam... :speechless:

JasonJohnHorn
12-13-2012, 08:34 PM
These so-called "Jordan Followers" would not have been attracted to NBA or the game of basketball if it wasn't for Jordan in the first place.

So there might've been a drop in TV ratings after Jordan left, but there would not have been a ratings increase to begin with if Jordan never appeared.

The point is though, the NBA had better ratings BEFORE Jordan than it did AFTER Jordan. If Jordan hadn't ever played a game, perhaps the ratings woudln't have increased as high as they did, but adversely, they may not have dropped as much afterwards. The followers of the game would have been following mutiple players, or different player and not just Jordan and so, in the time frame that he left, may not have experienced as sharp a decline and may have been more popular post Jordan than it has been.

DumDum
12-13-2012, 08:43 PM
If it wasn't for jordan none of us would be talking about him in this thread on PSD close thread now.

SteveNash
12-13-2012, 08:54 PM
:facepalm: I ****ing despise M Jordan but saying he had bad fundamentals goes beyond ridicuous.

Despite the NBA bending rules to prop up Jordan, traveling is not a fundamental skill in basketball.

Ebbs
12-13-2012, 09:01 PM
Lol at the guy who said Mike had bad fundamentals.

stawka
12-13-2012, 09:11 PM
:facepalm: JJH needs to stop making threads he's worse than JB

No way bro. That's going TOO far!

Twins Fanatic
12-13-2012, 09:17 PM
I think he was. When most think NBA they think of Jordan; when then think of Jordan they think NBA. Point is, he was and still continues to be one of the most iconic athletes ever, not just relating to the NBA.

stawka
12-13-2012, 09:23 PM
At my work, I'm one of about 4 guys that follow the NBA. The rest know the NBA, and the first person they affiliate with it is Jordan. I follow the NBA Religiously, and they talk to me about the 90's NBA because it was the golden era so to speak. Everyone followed the NBA back then. Conversation starts off about Jordan, then Shaq/Hakeem/Robinson/'Nique etc

But it all starts and ends with MJ. MJ along with Magic and Larry turned it into a worldwide sport. Everyone wanted to and wants to "Be like Mike". Truth be told!