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View Full Version : Kobe's Defense vs the Cavs



Guppyfighter
12-13-2012, 12:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvJivGNoUw&feature=youtu.be&a

Another great break down.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Yeah, he's been pretty horrible. Too many defensive lapses. His transition D (along with everyone else's) has been ****, but still no excuse for a veteran like him. He refuses to close out on shooters. Late rotations. I'm honestly sick of his laissez-faire attitude of him and the Lakers team as a whole on the defensive end. And I'm also sick of his pansy turnovers.

justinnum1
12-13-2012, 12:16 AM
If he makes the first team all defense this season...

More-Than-Most
12-13-2012, 12:21 AM
What defense? He was a Joke in that game and most of the year

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 12:22 AM
If he makes the first team all defense this season...

Why would he? Those days are long gone. He barely made 2nd team last yr.

I'm pretty sure these last 2 yrs of his career, he won't make any defensive teams. Just All NBA 1st teams.

PurpleJesus
12-13-2012, 12:22 AM
Just another reason why Danotni is a bad fit there. They have 3 players who have been on multiple all defense teams (Kobe, Dwight and MWP), and in recent seasons, Dwight has been in the conversation of best defensive player in the league...Why would you hire a coach that coaches down to the strengths of the individual defensive capabilities of his players?

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 12:28 AM
Just another reason why Danotni is a bad fit there. They have 3 players who have been on multiple all defense teams (Kobe, Dwight and MWP), and in recent seasons, Dwight has been in the conversation of best defensive player in the league...Why would you hire a coach that coaches down to the strengths of the individual defensive capabilities of his players?

Actually, to be honest, Lakers defense has sucked from day 1 of training camp with Mike Brown. We haven't been able to get a rhythm on that end of the floor all season.

I'm tired of our players not holding themselves accountable on the defensive end.

pacman16
12-13-2012, 12:38 AM
well kobe and MWP are just slowing down which takes a lot away from being a great defender.... dwights just a lazy piece of **** now, guys such a baby its ridic.
all in all, you expect it when players get older. not a surprise....

shep33
12-13-2012, 12:49 AM
He's been bad this year. Not because he's a bad defender, but because he just doesn't try. I don't know if its because he has an increased role offensively or what, but either way he's been crappy.

That being said, he isn't the only one who's defense is bad. Metta hasn't been the same either. Dwight's not there either.

shep33
12-13-2012, 12:52 AM
Just wanted to add. Kobe seems to only play defense when he's challenged. It's weird, and I don't get it, but it just seems like this is the case

JordansBulls
12-13-2012, 12:54 AM
Just amazing that thru the first 19 games the guy didn't even have a block shot.
Hell in 2011 he had only 12 blocks all season and made 1st team all defense.

PurpleJesus
12-13-2012, 12:56 AM
Just wanted to add. Kobe seems to only play defense when he's challenged. It's weird, and I don't get it, but it just seems like this is the case

I havent watched much of the Lakers this year, but from what I read, it seems the players on that team are trying to go off their legacy alone...meaning that they are using their reputation as an excuse as to why the other guys need to be playing better, but not themselves...is this accurate?

Accurate or not, I think getting Nash and Pau back will be huge for them. Nash specifically, as a guy who is used to Dantoni's system, and a guy who puts ego aside and finds a way to make teammates better (offensively at least).

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 12:58 AM
I havent watched much of the Lakers this year, but from what I read, it seems the players on that team are trying to go off their legacy alone...meaning that they are using their reputation as an excuse as to why the other guys need to be playing better, but not themselves...is this accurate?

Accurate or not, I think getting Nash and Pau back will be huge for them. Nash specifically, as a guy who is used to Dantoni's system, and a guy who puts ego aside and finds a way to make teammates better (offensively at least).

No

LAKobeBryant
12-13-2012, 01:01 AM
Problem is he only plays d if he feels like it.

PurpleJesus
12-13-2012, 01:02 AM
No

Then whats the problem? I have heard from Laker fans that Kobe isnt giving the effort on D, and neither is Dwight.

PurpleJesus
12-13-2012, 01:03 AM
Problem is he only plays d if he feels like it.

So he is letting his legacy/ego get in the way?

KingPosey
12-13-2012, 01:06 AM
Just amazing that thru the first 19 games the guy didn't even have a block shot.
Hell in 2011 he had only 12 blocks all season and made 1st team all defense.

Well he is a guard. Blocking shots isnt the only way for a guard to show defensive prowess.

Avenged
12-13-2012, 01:13 AM
Problem is he only plays d if he feels like it.

Not anymore dude. Those days are gone.

He can play for a possession or two if need be, but he cannot just flip that switch defensively whenever he wants anymore.

Hawkeye15
12-13-2012, 01:22 AM
Why would he? Those days are long gone. He barely made 2nd team last yr.

I'm pretty sure these last 2 yrs of his career, he won't make any defensive teams. Just All NBA 1st teams.

how on earth did Kobe make the last 2 all defensive teams he was on? Reputations are hard to outlive. Which is why we constantly hear Dirk sucks on defense, and Kobe is awesome on defense.

Money_23
12-13-2012, 01:33 AM
Just amazing that thru the first 19 games the guy didn't even have a block shot.
Hell in 2011 he had only 12 blocks all season and made 1st team all defense.

cus blocks are the only things in defense?

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 01:51 AM
how on earth did Kobe make the last 2 all defensive teams he was on? Reputations are hard to outlive. Which is why we constantly hear Dirk sucks on defense, and Kobe is awesome on defense.

Yeah I didn't agree with it, it was moreso reputation last yr. I honestly think 2009-2010 was his last worthwhile defensive season.

shep33
12-13-2012, 01:52 AM
Yeah his d has been bad. No question. Again though, it's not because he can't defend, he just chooses not to. There are possessions this year where he shuts down the opposing player and looks like the best perimeter defender in the NBA. Sadly it hasn't been consistent. I think it's very similar to Wade. It's all effort, both can play defense when they want to though.

amos1er
12-13-2012, 02:54 AM
how on earth did Kobe make the last 2 all defensive teams he was on? Reputations are hard to outlive. Which is why we constantly hear Dirk sucks on defense, and Kobe is awesome on defense.

I feel the same way about Lebron's 2012 MVP award. Should have gone to Durant. Less talented roster and more wins in a much more difficult conference. Lebron's rep earned him that one for sure.

amos1er
12-13-2012, 02:59 AM
It's not only Kobe's defense BTW. The rest of the team is slacking too. I blame this mostly on coaching. It's always the same usual suspects in the NBA forum that are there too blame everything on Kobe anytime something goes wrong with the Lakers. Funny how these are the same guys who never give him his due when he deserves it. :rolleyes:

Chronz
12-13-2012, 03:04 AM
I feel the same way about Lebron's 2012 MVP award. Should have gone to Durant. Less talented roster and more wins in a much more difficult conference. Lebron's rep earned him that one for sure.

Did you really just compare Brons MVP validity to Kobe's All-Defensive selections?

And you call Andrew biased?

naps
12-13-2012, 03:17 AM
Just amazing that thru the first 19 games the guy didn't even have a block shot.
Hell in 2011 he had only 12 blocks all season and made 1st team all defense.

That's how he has been making defensive first teams for last 4/5 years. Pathetic.

Faycem
12-13-2012, 03:24 AM
Coasting on defense. No legs for everything anymore.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-13-2012, 03:26 AM
Somebody's mad in this thread. You know who you are! :laugh2:

mngopher35
12-13-2012, 03:35 AM
I feel the same way about Lebron's 2012 MVP award. Should have gone to Durant. Less talented roster and more wins in a much more difficult conference. Lebron's rep earned him that one for sure.

Haha difference is Lebron actually deserved it/had a claim while kobe hasn't been a top defender these last 2 years and hasn't deserved it. Thinking Durant should have had it over Lebron is fine but it's not like Lebron wasn't clearly right there in the debate. Lastly maybe instead of team record alone people decided the better overall player deserved the award since the records weren't that different.

Lakers4life08
12-13-2012, 08:01 AM
I think one of the reasons why hi FG % is one of the best in his 17 seasons,is becouse he don't try to play defense and saving all his energy on offense

amos1er
12-13-2012, 08:36 AM
Did you really just compare Brons MVP validity to Kobe's All-Defensive selections?

And you call Andrew biased?

At least I gave an example of someone who deserved it over him and why. I don't hear anyone coming up with any sort of snubs for the 2011 and 2012 All Defensive teams at the guard position. All they do is state that is was a robbery without giving any supporting reasons. Can't really take blanket statements like those too seriously especially when they hypocritically think that Lebron hasn't gotten any extra accolades due to his own reputation as well. I'm not saying that I think Kobe's All Defensive awards these past two seasons were especially warranted, I'm just saying that certain posters should provide more insight when they attempt to discredit someone while at the same time not holding their own favorite players accountable to the same standards they condemn others by.

IMO if you go by the standards the NBA has set over the past ten years for MVP which is best player on best team, Durant clearly deserved it over Lebron in 2012. Lebron was the better player statistically, but Durant led a weaker roster to more wins in a much more difficult conference. Hence, Durant was the best player on the best team in 2011. San Antonio and Chicago didn't have dominant enough superstars worthy of being league MVP, therefore Durant seemed to be the obvious choice, especially in comparison to the bar they had set the previous year when the gave it to Rose. Since when did the NBA start giving MVP's based on statistical dominance? Why all the suddden did their standards change last year for Lebron when the year before they gave it to Rose who did not have any sort of statistical dominance in relation to the other top tier superstars in the league? Yet the media's rational for Rose was that they have consistently givin the award to the best player on the best team. I think you can agree that there is no consistency in the credentials for the MVP award when comparing 2011 Rose and 2012 Lebron.

JordansBulls
12-13-2012, 10:48 AM
Well he is a guard. Blocking shots isnt the only way for a guard to show defensive prowess.

Don't give me that, Vince Carter a guy who is seen as someone who doesn't put much effort on defense has had more blocks then him the past few years.

Lakers4life08
12-13-2012, 10:52 AM
Kobe playing defense only when he wants(allmost never) but everyone saw,when he left one on one vs Irving....he played fantastic defense and block irving shot

Chronz
12-13-2012, 11:11 AM
At least I gave an example of someone who deserved it over him and why.
That doesnt make it a better comparison. Bron was FAR more deserving of MVP than Kobe was of making SEVERAL All-D Teams.


I don't hear anyone coming up with any sort of snubs for the 2011 and 2012 All Defensive teams at the guard position. All they do is state that is was a robbery without giving any supporting reasons. Can't really take blanket statements like those too seriously especially when they hypocritically think that Lebron hasn't gotten any extra accolades due to his own reputation as well.
I disagree with everything here, I've heard several great candidates and Bron has been far more worthy of his accolades of late.



IMO if you go by the standards the NBA has set over the past ten years for MVP which is best player on best team, Durant clearly deserved it over Lebron in 2012.
I get that you think that, my aim isnt to get into this debate because we CLEARLY see things very differently, I dont agree with most of your opinions but the only thing we should agree on is that Bron was more worthy. Your comparison was pitiful because Kobe hasn't even come close to being worthy of his selections, whereas Bron winning MVP is a defensive stance.

b@llhog24
12-13-2012, 04:29 PM
But he had that block on Kyrie. :speechless:

AddiX
12-13-2012, 04:46 PM
Nice breakdown...

I remember this defense well. Teams will dictate there match ups all day against mikes defense. I remember David lee and amare constantly trying to defend guards with no help.

It disgusted me. Teams would do it, over and over, mike refused to change.

Set u pick, and than match up rose Vs lee. It was a joke it was so easy.

AIRMAR72
12-13-2012, 04:49 PM
Problem is he only plays d if he feels like it.

THAT was in 1999 kobe hasnt played D IN a DECADE but still get placed on the first team ballot

Hawkeye15
12-13-2012, 04:56 PM
Yeah I didn't agree with it, it was moreso reputation last yr. I honestly think 2009-2010 was his last worthwhile defensive season.

Seeing as he could defend really well in spots, I guess I agree.

Hawkeye15
12-13-2012, 04:57 PM
I feel the same way about Lebron's 2012 MVP award. Should have gone to Durant. Less talented roster and more wins in a much more difficult conference. Lebron's rep earned him that one for sure.

that has nothing to do with Kobe making the all defensive teams. He wasn't even a very good defender last season.

Btw, LeBron had more help? Mmkay bud.

Greedy22
12-13-2012, 05:09 PM
I feel the same way about Lebron's 2012 MVP award. Should have gone to Durant. Less talented roster and more wins in a much more difficult conference. Lebron's rep earned him that one for sure.

What?


Did you really just compare Brons MVP validity to Kobe's All-Defensive selections?

And you call Andrew biased?

:laugh2:

amos1er
12-14-2012, 01:16 AM
That doesnt make it a better comparison. Bron was FAR more deserving of MVP than Kobe was of making SEVERAL All-D Teams.

I was responding to Hawkeye's statement about Kobe getting some extra love pertaining to his recent All Defensive team selections due to his rep. I simply pointed out to him that Lebron gets a lot of love due to his rep as well. I felt that he was implying Kobe gets more due to his rep than other superstars which is not true. Might I remind you that Lebron was ordained "The King" for many years before he won a ring.

I also felt that his latest MVP had a lot to due with his rep as well, especially when the media contradicted themselves by changing their standards from the year prior when Rose won it. I know that it's a bit of a strawman argument in the context of Kobe's All defensive team selections, but I had to bring it up in order to show the lack of continuity in regards to Lebron's 2012 MVP.

Yes, Kobe's last two defensive team selections were gifted to him more than Lebron's 2012 MVP, but thats not the point I was making. I was not trying to directly compare the two, rather I was pointing out to Hawkeye that there are other superstars other than Kobe who get some added considerations due to their rep as well. I personally, would rather get extra considerations for MVP than a few measly All Defensive team awards. I could easily bring up the fact that Kobe never got the same considerations in 2006 that Lebron got in 2012. Not saying that Kobe got completely hosed or anything and I do admit that it's debatable, I just feel that if Kobe had similar rep power to Lebron in 2012 he would have come in better than fifth in the voting that year.



I disagree with everything here, I've heard several great candidates and Bron has been far more worthy of his accolades of late.

Maybe I missed something, but I did not notice any of these great candidates you mention. Again, I am not in disagreement with the fact that Kobe got some love the last two seasons in terms of All Defensive team awards, I am just saying that people should back up their statements better especially when I am asked to do so quite often by other posters on here. If I had made a blanket statement such as: "Lebron was gifted the 2012 MVP award", I would be met by much criticism and asked to further elaborate by a myriad of the Lebronites on this site. That said, I preemptively do my best to give supporting reasons in my opening statements in order to avoid such attacks. I'm simply asking for the same consideration in return.


I get that you think that, my aim isnt to get into this debate because we CLEARLY see things very differently, I dont agree with most of your opinions but the only thing we should agree on is that Bron was more worthy. Your comparison was pitiful because Kobe hasn't even come close to being worthy of his selections, whereas Bron winning MVP is a defensive stance.

Lebron was more worthy, but you must also take into account that the prestige of an MVP award is much greater than that of an All Defensive team selection. I can pretty much assume that if you polled all the players in the NBA and asked them which would they rather have, more All Defensive Teams consideration, or more MVP consideration, the answer would be 100% unanimous in favor of the ladder. So while you can argue that Kobe got more leeway in his All Defensive team selections compared to the leeway Lebron got with his 2012 MVP, and I would agree with you, you also can't even begin to compare the merit and prestige of an MVP to a couple of All Defensive team selections.