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View Full Version : Is it time to make a move for Ellsbury?



MG956
12-11-2012, 09:55 PM
A lot of money came off the books this year, and while we have filled the outfield we are still looking for a name outfielder? What's Ellsbury thinkling right now?

You know Ells thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread but in his quieter moments he has to take a more sober look at his stats, especially now with the way this off season has gone thus far. He has to know that he is one more bad season/injury away from losing serious value, and his safety net team is looking to kick him to the curb.

Is this not the best time to make your final best offer? Extend or be traded, (while we list some of the dreadful places we are working deals).

Four months ago it was pretty much agreed that the Sox were moving on without Ellls, it was just a matter of when. Right now I think it makes sense to pay him to stay, Agon-like money if thats what it takes.

He is a home grown talent, and that matters. He should be part of our core going forward. He & Pedroia came up for our last world Series and should be given the task of leading us to the next, (with Pedroia being captain of course). What better core to lead our new guys thru the next 5 years?

Yes we would probably have to overpay, and yes he is a "risk". That's often the cost of doing business in MLB these days. What's new right now is we can afford to "overpay" for Ells, and we can get a better deal than the highest bidder will later.

bagwell368
12-11-2012, 09:59 PM
$20M per for a guy that hates Boston*, and takes off a month when he gets lemon juice in a paper cut?

OMG.... this is ridiculous.

* After fans and media treated him like dig crap over his ribs in 2010, it came out that it was legit. The word was that Ellsbury who didn't like Boston that much hates it now. He keeps quiet because why screw up your market. He won't sign here, and I don't want him even if he did, not for 6x20.

AI
12-11-2012, 10:11 PM
I don't want Ells here long term at big money especially when you have Jackie Bradley on the cusp of being ready. Pass.

MG956
12-11-2012, 10:29 PM
$20M per for a guy that hates Boston, and takes off a month when he gets lemon juice in a paper cut?

OMG.... this is ridiculous.

Awful

Wrong headed

Wrong headed or out of the box?

Stats and $ value don't build a winning team. Magic, the x factor, the vision thing - you can't put your finger on the third part you need.

As for Ells don't even start with the fragile stuff, he got broken because he plays hard. I think we both agree on that. You are saying he sat out longer than he should. I've had broken ribs and it takes a month before you can laugh without it hurting, months before you are whole.

Does he hate Boston? I can't blame him for not liking things that were said. Maybe he has the gear to want to prove the blowhards wrong.

All said and done the kid is now a product of his manager. He is posing and maximizing facetime. Everything is a practiced soundbite. That's the business of MLB! Like a vet that signs for 1 year to prove value the kids are posturing during the arb years for the really big deal.

Let's sign him this year and end the sales pitch.

MG956
12-11-2012, 10:32 PM
I don't want Ells here long term at big money especially when you have Jackie Bradley on the cusp of being ready. Pass.

He plays how many outfield positions? 3?

How many outfielders did we go thru last year?

EEasyA
12-11-2012, 10:47 PM
Pass Pass and pass. Don't pass Go. Elllsbury is Overrated and Fragile as a Stick. No way i pay this guy over 21 mil going to 25. Someone people here are hesitating to pay Hamilton 25 mill dollars but want to give that to Ellls. Give me a break. Hamilton is so much a better player than Elllsbury would think or want to ever be.

bagwell368
12-11-2012, 11:10 PM
Wrong headed or out of the box?

Stats and $ value don't build a winning team. Magic, the x factor, the vision thing - you can't put your finger on the third part you need.

Ellsbury's career is 5% magic, 25% good, and 70% ho-hum/injured/can't hit leadoff.


As for Ells don't even start with the fragile stuff, he got broken because he plays hard. I think we both agree on that. You are saying he sat out longer than he should. I've had broken ribs and it takes a month before you can laugh without it hurting, months before you are whole.

He's got an agent that won't let him play at less than 100%. Where is that mentioned here? I don't hold the ribs against him myself, but that's hardly the only injury he's had. He also didn't have any power last year, this is encouraging to you?


Does he hate Boston? I can't blame him for not liking things that were said. Maybe he has the gear to want to prove the blowhards wrong.

He's following the money and he won't get it here. He's a poor risk going forward in a 5 year deal.


Let's sign him this year and end the sales pitch.

They've tried to extend him 3 times in the past. Only if we clearly went over the market would he sign, and why would BC be that stupid? It's senseless, he had his time here, and it's nearly over.

bagwell368
12-11-2012, 11:13 PM
He plays how many outfield positions? 3?

How many outfielders did we go thru last year?

In order to build the team the right way, Ellsbury is one of the few vets we have that has some trade value. He's not part of the future here. Cash him in now, or the deadline, or for a draft pick - whichever is the best value, and move on.

I don't care how many OF'ers we have this year, we will not win, so overstocking is just a waste of resources.

PapelbonLester
12-12-2012, 12:25 AM
If we can sign Hamilton/Swisher YES trade him with Lavarnway for a SP please !!! move SV to CF and we can don

SV CF
Pedy 2nd
WMB 3rd
Ortiz DH
Hamilton/Swisher RF
Napoli 1st
Gomez LF
Salty C
Ciriaco (I WISH) SS

Nomar
12-12-2012, 12:46 AM
In order to build the team the right way, Ellsbury is one of the few vets we have that has some trade value. He's not part of the future here. Cash him in now, or the deadline, or for a draft pick - whichever is the best value, and move on.

I don't care how many OF'ers we have this year, we will not win, so overstocking is just a waste of resources.

x2

RedSoxtober
12-12-2012, 01:30 AM
A lot of money came off the books this year, and while we have filled the outfield we are still looking for a name outfielder? What's Ellsbury thinkling right now?

You know Ells thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread but in his quieter moments he has to take a more sober look at his stats, especially now with the way this off season has gone thus far. He has to know that he is one more bad season/injury away from losing serious value, and his safety net team is looking to kick him to the curb.
I doubt that Ellsbury looks at it this way. My guess is that he believes that he is the player of 2007/2011 and that 2010/2012 were just bad things that happened to him. Not sure how he justifies 2008-09 but it doesn't matter. With Boras as his agent he will think nothing less than the best about himself.

In fact, I bet that he could turn a complete lack of market in favor of his ego. "It's not that teams doubt me, it's that teams seem me as so valuable that they're scared they will lose me on the FA market after a season." Whatever the case, I don't think that he hired Boras to look at the possible negatives.



Four months ago it was pretty much agreed that the Sox were moving on without Ellls, it was just a matter of when. Right now I think it makes sense to pay him to stay, Agon-like money if thats what it takes.
A-Gon like money? How can you justify that? He'd be among the top 10 highest paid players in MLB. He's had only one such season in his six years (okay, 5+) and he has no trend to suggest that he'll have another. I cannot justify anything like it.


He is a home grown talent, and that matters. He should be part of our core going forward. He & Pedroia came up for our last world Series and should be given the task of leading us to the next, (with Pedroia being captain of course). What better core to lead our new guys thru the next 5 years?

The need for "home grown talent" has very little to do with anything other than cost. You develop such talent because it's extraordinarily cheap (by MLB standards) for the first four or five years; thereafter it costs the same as the rest of baseball's mercenaries. By having a steady supply of "home grown talent" you keep the costs down so that you can make moves for bigger fish when they fit the profile.

Knowingly overpaying a player into the top 10 MLB salaries just because he's home grown is silly.

AllSports4387
12-12-2012, 03:40 AM
Ellsbury won't stay in Boston. He should be traded. I say they give Hambone 3 years for 75 million. A lot of dough, but not a lot of years. Trade Ellsbury, Lavarnway, the 8th overall pick in next year's draft, and Lester to Seattle for Felix. Then go ask Atlanta if they have enough starters to get one of their young arms at a reasonable price. Maybe around Kalish or Bentz? Next year's lineup would be...
Also, Sign Drew.

1. Flyin Hawaiian CF
2. Pedey
3. Hambone RF
4. Papi
5. Middlebrooks
6. Napoli
7. Gomes
8. Drew
9. Salty and/or Ross

Rotation
King Felix
Clay
Lackey
Doubront
Possibly Aceves, also heard they were thinking about Morales. Or if they could land a young arm obviously they'd be in there. That team could definitely compete. Do we forget that Oakland and Baltimore made the playoffs and actually played very well.. If that team delivers then they could certainly make a run... I think as long as the sox add three more pieces they will contend regardless.
An outfielder
Drew to play Short
Someone to pitch #1-3 in our rotation.
Trading Jacoby makes this task much easier.

Crucis
12-12-2012, 06:50 AM
Ellsbury won't stay in Boston. He should be traded. I say they give Hambone 3 years for 75 million. A lot of dough, but not a lot of years. Trade Ellsbury, Lavarnway, the 8th overall pick in next year's draft, and Lester to Seattle for Felix. Then go ask Atlanta if they have enough starters to get one of their young arms at a reasonable price. Maybe around Kalish or Bentz? Next year's lineup would be...
Also, Sign Drew.
.

This isn't the NFL. Teams can't trade draft picks.

Besides, why would the Mariners want a player with only a single year of control left (Ellsbury) and another with 2 years left, IIRC (Lester) for their ace? The M's aren't trading Felix, and even if they did, it would be for something like 4-5 of the Sox very best prospects, not soon-to-be free agents.

bagwell368
12-12-2012, 09:15 AM
This isn't the NFL. Teams can't trade draft picks.

Besides, why would the Mariners want a player with only a single year of control left (Ellsbury) and another with 2 years left, IIRC (Lester) for their ace? The M's aren't trading Felix, and even if they did, it would be for something like 4-5 of the Sox very best prospects, not soon-to-be free agents.

x2

Think XB, JBJ, Webster, Rubby, Owens as the starting point for negotiations.

ZHawk1123
12-12-2012, 09:44 AM
Ellsbury won't stay in Boston. He should be traded. I say they give Hambone 3 years for 75 million. A lot of dough, but not a lot of years. Trade Ellsbury, Lavarnway, the 8th overall pick in next year's draft, and Lester to Seattle for Felix. Then go ask Atlanta if they have enough starters to get one of their young arms at a reasonable price. Maybe around Kalish or Bentz? Next year's lineup would be...
Also, Sign Drew.

1. Flyin Hawaiian CF
2. Pedey
3. Hambone RF
4. Papi
5. Middlebrooks
6. Napoli
7. Gomes
8. Drew
9. Salty and/or Ross

Rotation
King Felix
Clay
Lackey
Doubront
Possibly Aceves, also heard they were thinking about Morales. Or if they could land a young arm obviously they'd be in there. That team could definitely compete. Do we forget that Oakland and Baltimore made the playoffs and actually played very well.. If that team delivers then they could certainly make a run... I think as long as the sox add three more pieces they will contend regardless.
An outfielder
Drew to play Short
Someone to pitch #1-3 in our rotation.
Trading Jacoby makes this task much easier.

I don't ever use these... But...

:facepalm:

Thankful
12-12-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't ever use these... But...

:facepalm:

I don't ever post, but I feel you.

ruckus16969
12-12-2012, 02:45 PM
if we can sign hamilton/swisher yes trade him with lavarnway for a sp please !!! Move sv to cf and we can don

sv cf
pedy 2nd
wmb 3rd
ortiz dh
hamilton/swisher rf
napoli 1st
gomez lf
salty c
ciriaco (i wish) ss

yes!!!!!!


i don't ever post, but i feel you.
lol

ruckus16969
12-12-2012, 02:47 PM
I dont think we should extend him. But now is the wrong time to trade him. Wait ftill he builds his value in a contract year.

thawv
12-12-2012, 03:28 PM
I dont think we should extend him. But now is the wrong time to trade him. Wait ftill he builds his value in a contract year.

If he's having a stellar year, yes. But the closer you get to the deadline, the less valuable he is in the trade market. I say move him now. Slide Bradley in at a fraction of the cost, and be worry free for a few years. Plus they can rid themselves of Boras!!!

bagwell368
12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
The problem is, who needs Ellsbury and will pay a fair price? A few dinged up CF's in season for contenders could change the market a good deal for the better.

PapelbonLester
12-12-2012, 11:59 PM
We offered Ellsbury for Cliff Lee. Im guessing his value is pretty decent.

Nomar
12-13-2012, 03:14 AM
We offered Ellsbury for Cliff Lee. Im guessing his value is pretty decent.

It got rejected so that means very little.

Tragedy
12-13-2012, 03:44 AM
If anything, the Choo trade yesterday should force the Red Sox to be even more aggressive with shopping Ellsbury. We could still be a decent return.

bagwell368
12-13-2012, 09:18 AM
We offered Ellsbury for Cliff Lee. Im guessing his value is pretty decent.

Cliff Lee was put on waivers last year, and nobody bit. I guess that's how much Ellsbury is worth.

BTW just because it was reported doesn't mean it was true...

I'd do Ellsbury, Ranaudo and Cuevas for him in a heartbeat.