PDA

View Full Version : Who is the greatest international player in the history of the game?



JasonJohnHorn
12-11-2012, 04:19 PM
Ok... here's the question: Who is the greatest international player in the history of the game?


Simple enough? I think most will just say Dirk, with some people giving consideration to Sabonis, but that said, Nash is technically an 'international' player as well. So to, it could be argued, are Duncan and Hakeem. And certainly Manute Bol. And let us not forget Pau Gasol, who, according to those who use ring-counts against players, has one more ring than Dirk.

And if you like, you can factor in international play as well. Even guys who only have international play if you like.

So... I'll let you decide who counts as 'international' and who doesn't.

Who you got as the greats international player in the history of the game?

JEDean89
12-11-2012, 04:21 PM
isn't kobe from italy?

Hellcrooner
12-11-2012, 04:22 PM
the greatest international player to play the nba? Hakeem ( or wilkins....).

The greatest international player to play the nba and not play for team usa? Pau or Dirk.

The greates international player to play in the nba not ocming from NCaa or american H.S? Gasol or Dirk.


The greatest international Player in the International fiba tournaments/leagues? Probably Sabonis battling Nick gallis, Juan antonio San epifanio and Oscar Schmit.


So, wich one are you asking for.?

Hellcrooner
12-11-2012, 04:22 PM
isn't kobe from italy?

No, he is from philly.

greg_ory_2005
12-11-2012, 04:22 PM
Jonas Valanciunas.

Faneik
12-11-2012, 04:28 PM
I was a big fan of Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc.

It's Nowitzki. His play when Dallas won the championship was nothing but great.

Hellcrooner
12-11-2012, 04:30 PM
I was a big fan of Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc.

It's Nowitzki. His play when Dallas won the championship was nothing but great.

Kukoc has a place in a discussion with Sabonis, Dirk, pau, Divac, Gallis, epi, Gallis.

Dratzen ( and before him Dalipaglic), not so much they were great scorers, but all around......not much d, not much passing, not much anything else.

Faneik
12-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Kukoc has a place in a discussion with Sabonis, Dirk, pau, Divac, Gallis, epi, Gallis.

Dratzen ( and before him Dalipaglic), not so much they were great scorers, but all around......not much d, not much passing, not much anything else.

Regarding Drazen, I said I was a fan. I wish Bodiroga came to the NBA. I'd like to see Teodosic too.

My answer to the thread's question is Nowitzki.

Ebbs
12-11-2012, 04:33 PM
Dirk yes....

Hakeem and Duncan don't really count IMO

Heediot
12-11-2012, 04:34 PM
Pure Talent: Arvydas Sabonis

Overall: Dirk Nowitzski

I am excluding Hakeem & Timmy Here

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-11-2012, 04:41 PM
Pau Gasol, has he has achieved more overall than Dirk on an international level.


Dirk beats Pau with a league MVP and Finals MVP. But Pau having 2 rings (back-to-back) and completely changing around the Lakers culture in 08 is a big deal too.

NBA Career: Dirk


But Pau has had an astonishing international career, so overall, Pau gets the edge.

JNoel
12-11-2012, 04:41 PM
Andrea Bargnani

Faneik
12-11-2012, 04:45 PM
Pau Gasol, has he has achieved more overall than Dirk on an international level.


Dirk beats Pau with a league MVP and Finals MVP. But Pau having 2 rings (back-to-back) and completely changing around the Lakers culture in 08 is a big deal too.

NBA Career: Dirk


But Pau has had an astonishing international career, so overall, Pau gets the edge.

when will people realize that team success depends of your team-mates?

The question is not ' Who is the international player in the history of the game who won more titles?'

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-11-2012, 04:50 PM
when will people realize that team success depends of your team-mates?

The question is not ' Who is the international player in the history of the game who won more titles?'

Didn't I just say that Dirk has the edge in NBA Career even though Pau has more titles?


Pau has accomplished more in the international sphere than Dirk.



You can't label someone "the best" in something if they don't have the hardware to show for it. If that was the case and hardware didn't matter, then it'd just be picking the most empty talented player.

blahblahyoutoo
12-11-2012, 04:59 PM
yao is up there for reasons other than pure basketball.
e.g. ambassador to the nba for asia.

Faneik
12-11-2012, 05:00 PM
Didn't I just say that Dirk has the edge in NBA Career even though Pau has more titles?


Pau has accomplished more in the international sphere than Dirk.



You can't label someone "the best" in something if they don't have the hardware to show for it. If that was the case and hardware didn't matter, then it'd just be picking the most empty talented player.

That's where our opinions differ.

The Karl Malone's and Elgin Baylor's in history... They're considered some of the best players in history, and they have 0 rings.

Basketball is 5 on 5, you need help to win rings. Some of the greats weren't fortunate to be IN championship caliber TEAMS.

8kobe24
12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
Dražen Petrović

heyman321
12-11-2012, 05:07 PM
That's where our opinions differ.

The Karl Malone's and Elgin Baylor's in history... They're considered some of the best players in history, and they have 0 rings.

Basketball is 5 on 5, you need help to win rings. Some of the greats weren't fortunate to be IN championship caliber TEAMS.

Also some of the greats just happened to face Michael Jordan multiple times in the playoffs.

Faneik
12-11-2012, 05:09 PM
Also some of the greats just happened to face Michael Jordan multiple times in the playoffs.

Indeed

Pool
12-11-2012, 05:13 PM
Rik Smits?

nickdymez
12-11-2012, 05:15 PM
lol, Tim Duncan

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-11-2012, 05:16 PM
That's where our opinions differ.

The Karl Malone's and Elgin Baylor's in history... They're considered some of the best players in history, and they have 0 rings.

Basketball is 5 on 5, you need help to win rings. Some of the greats weren't fortunate to be IN championship caliber TEAMS.

Both of those guys's skills are top 10 caliber, but the reasons they don't make many's top 10 list is because of the hardware.


That's why Duncan is looked upon as the best PF in the game. Malone has Duncan beat in a lot of areas like running the floor better, better pull up J, better pick and roll player, the better pass from the pinch post. Duncan is the better defender and had better post moves.

Karl had more facets of the game he's better at than Duncan, but Duncan has the rings (4 of them, which is A LOT) and a better 2-way player than Malone.

nickdymez
12-11-2012, 05:16 PM
That's where our opinions differ.

The Karl Malone's and Elgin Baylor's in history... They're considered some of the best players in history, and they have 0 rings.

Basketball is 5 on 5, you need help to win rings. Some of the greats weren't fortunate to be IN championship caliber TEAMS.

And some greats make their teams better. I dont know, go figure. If you have a great team and still fail to win, why doesnt that count against you? It works both ways imo.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-11-2012, 05:18 PM
Indeed

Indeed what?

If you're agreeing with him that 1 player (MJ) made a difference in guys not getting the title, then aren't you going against your prior notion that Championships and stuff are a "TEAM" accomplishment. Saying "indeed" and agreeing with that post is actually weakening your argument.

Faneik
12-11-2012, 05:24 PM
Both of those guys's skills are top 10 caliber, but the reasons they don't make many's top 10 list is because of the hardware.

This is why I leave rings out of the equation when I am comparing players. My main focus is skill.

But I understand what you're saying. Hardware is a factor for me too, it's just not as relevant as it is to you, I guess.

Bishnoff
12-11-2012, 05:25 PM
Dra×en Petrović or Oscar Schmidt. If you don't know who these guys are you probably shouldn't be answering the question.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-11-2012, 05:26 PM
This is why I leave rings out of the equation when I am comparing players. My main focus is skill.

But I understand what you're saying. Hardware is a factor for me too, it's just not as relevant as it is to you, I guess.

But skill can only take you so far. It's the intangibles that go with that.


Mr. Russell was never the flashiest offensive skilled big man in the game, but he made a difference with his defense and on court good decisions, and that's how he was the anchor of 11 Championships.

I'm sure there were more skilled guys than him in the league at the time, but that didn't matter to how he dictated the game and basically wrote a storybook on the defensive end of the ball.

nickdymez
12-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Indeed what?

If you're agreeing with him that 1 player (MJ) made a difference in guys not getting the title, then aren't you going against your prior notion that Championships and stuff are a "TEAM" accomplishment. Saying "indeed" and agreeing with that post is actually weakening your argument.

Exactly

Faneik
12-11-2012, 05:30 PM
Indeed what?

If you're agreeing with him that 1 player (MJ) made a difference in guys not getting the title, then aren't you going against your prior notion that Championships and stuff are a "TEAM" accomplishment. Saying "indeed" and agreeing with that post is actually weakening your argument.

I was agreeing that Karl Malone doesn't have rings because MJ was around.

It has no effect on how I rank Malone on all-time lists.

LAKERMANIA
12-11-2012, 05:33 PM
Hakeem
Dirk
Petrovic

Faneik
12-11-2012, 05:36 PM
But skill can only take you so far. It's the intangibles that go with that.


Mr. Russell was never the flashiest offensive skilled big man in the game, but he made a difference with his defense and on court good decisions, and that's how he was the anchor of 11 Championships.

I'm sure there were more skilled guys than him in the league at the time, but that didn't matter to how he dictated the game and basically wrote a storybook on the defensive end of the ball.

I know perfectly what Mr. Russell brought to the table.

When I refer to a players' skill I mean the complete set of tools he brings to the court. Offensive and defensive tools.

"there were more skilled guys than him in the league at the time" - offensively yes. Overall skills speaking he was one of the best, because his defensive ones had a huge impact on the game.

Daaaarryyl
12-11-2012, 06:10 PM
I was a big fan of Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc.

It's Nowitzki. His play when Dallas won the championship was nothing but great.

THIS. Dead on. Petro may have been the most influencial BTW, I LOVED watching him play.

Sabonis also although he came over too late (34 yo or something?)

And obviously Dirk.

b@llhog24
12-11-2012, 06:24 PM
Pure Talent: Arvydas Sabonis

Overall: Dirk Nowitzski

I am excluding Hakeem & Timmy Here

Uh huh.

heyman321
12-11-2012, 06:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFQULwmvcwk

Nothing more needs to be said!

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-11-2012, 06:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw_MaRd4Jhg


Nothing more needs to be said!









EDIT: Oops

WVNowitzki
12-11-2012, 06:41 PM
My man, The German Moses. Dirk Nowitzki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyiCp4A4f40

Patman
12-12-2012, 11:46 AM
Hm funny that people that base it on Titles/Accollades do not name Manu Ginobilli (3x NBA Champ, 1x Olympic Champ, 1x Euroleague Champ, NBA Sixth man of the Year, Euroleague MVP........) or Tony Parker (3x NBA Champ, Finals MVP).

I would probably say Dirk.

asandhu23
12-12-2012, 12:12 PM
But skill can only take you so far. It's the intangibles that go with that.


Mr. Russell was never the flashiest offensive skilled big man in the game, but he made a difference with his defense and on court good decisions, and that's how he was the anchor of 11 Championships.

I'm sure there were more skilled guys than him in the league at the time, but that didn't matter to how he dictated the game and basically wrote a storybook on the defensive end of the ball.

He also had an undefeatable Hall of Fame team with him. Only Wilt and his teams were able to give him a real challenge.

monty77
12-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Both Tim Duncan and Hakeem Olajuwon have to be considered foreign, so both of them are the greatest internationals players in the NBA history. They were able to win several rings being the main start of their own team.

Although they play for USA team, like Ibaka and Mirotic play for Spanish team, they must be in the top of this list. Dirk Nowitzki is the other player capable to win a championship as leader, so I would put him in third spot in the list.

Later, there are other players who reach great level but never won a ring (Yao Ming and Steve Nash) or win the ring without being the principal leader (Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili). Only Steve Nash has won MVP reward so I would put him fourth, followed by Gasol and Parker. Ginobili and Ming have played less seasons so I would put in a lower tier.

It's apparent that I'm only putting "modern players" in the list because I didn't see NBA before 1999. From that time onwards I have seen other players who don't reach superstar level but are noteworthy, such as for example Sabonis, Stojakovic, Detlef Schrempf and Rick Smith.

asandhu23
12-12-2012, 02:40 PM
Vlade Divac... Peja...

Lakersfan2483
12-12-2012, 02:57 PM
Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest international player ever.

Lakersfan2483
12-12-2012, 02:59 PM
Dirk and Pau are at the top as well.

heyman321
12-12-2012, 03:03 PM
PUH-lease, Tim Duncan and Hakeem are NOT international players. Yeah, they were born in the Virgin Islands (which is BASICALLY the USA) and Nigeria, but they both either grew up in the US or played college ball since 18 in the US.

NoahH
12-12-2012, 03:06 PM
isn't kobe from italy?

:facepalm:

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 03:11 PM
In case you were wondering.

Some oF the Best players to never play in nba.


" Pre 90s"
Belov
Uribatan
Dino Meneghin
Juan AntonioCorbalan.
Ferdinando Gentile.
Nickos Gallis.
Panaggiotis Fazzoulas.
Dratzen Dalipaglic
Oscar Smitdt
JUan Antonio San epifanio.
Jordi Villacampa.
Velimir Perasovic.

"modern era"
marcelo Nicola.
Dejan Bodiroga.
Arthuras Karnisovas.

The later three did not go to nba by decision.

Some of them are already on the Hof, Some of them will get in the future all of them are in the minds of any fiba follower as some of the greatest non american players ever.


Some of the old times one could have made a better or worse nba career if given a decent chance ( that the pioneers like Glouchov or Fernando Martin didnt get because nba coaches back then were prejudiced bout foreigners that hadnt played in ncaa).

Some of them never did the jump because back then ( pre 92) if you played in nba you couldnt play with your national team, and they didnt want to sacrifice it.

As an Example, JA San Epifanio got an offer from the bulls around 1985 ( apparently Jordan liked his game on the 1984 olympics final) but turned it down becaus he wanted to go on playing with spain ( player with most games on the team ever), he could probably ahve started in the sorry bulls mid 80s teams, and have been a solid bench player in the first title runs.

Nick gallis, and Dino Meneghin were actualy drafted and offered contracts, but rejected for similar reasons.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 03:12 PM
PUH-lease, Tim Duncan and Hakeem are NOT international players. Yeah, they were born in the Virgin Islands (which is BASICALLY the USA) and Nigeria, but they both either grew up in the US or played college ball since 18 in the US.

And PLAYED for USA TEAM.

that makes them american in my books.

Same way that for Me Ibaka is as spaniard as Jose or Pau, grew up here, learned his basketball here, is a citizen of spain and plays for spain, so no discrimination here, he is spanish.

mightybosstone
12-12-2012, 03:20 PM
As others have already mentioned, it sort of depends on the specifics of the question. As far as foreign born players go, I'd pick Hakeem with Duncan a close second. As far as guys who jumped straight from international play to the NBA and still compete internationally with their countries, I'd easily take Dirk. I don't understand how some of you have Dirk and Pau in the same discussion. Pau will probably make the Hall of Fame some day, and he's had a great career. But he doesn't deserve to spoken in the same conversation as Dirk in terms of production or talent.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 03:28 PM
As others have already mentioned, it sort of depends on the specifics of the question. As far as foreign born players go, I'd pick Hakeem with Duncan a close second. As far as guys who jumped straight from international play to the NBA and still compete internationally with their countries, I'd easily take Dirk. I don't understand how some of you have Dirk and Pau in the same discussion. Pau will probably make the Hall of Fame some day, and he's had a great career. But he doesn't deserve to spoken in the same conversation as Dirk in terms of production or talent.

How much silverware dows Dirk Have in the international stage?

Ok, lets put it this way.

Nba dirk has had more help in Mavs than Pau had in memphis when he was a leader.
That is not debatable.
As a result Dirk has "lead " his team to a ring, altough you could really discuss seeing the per, and the WS, that Pau "lead" Lakers to TWO rings.

Then in the international stage, is obvius that Pau has had much better help than Dirk with his teamates.
And as a result Pau has liek 10x times the international accolades Dirk Has.


That makes the comparison reasonable.

mightybosstone
12-12-2012, 03:34 PM
How much silverware dows Dirk Have in the international stage?

Ok, lets put it this way.

Nba dirk has had more help in Mavs than Pau had in memphis when he was a leader.
That is not debatable.
As a result Dirk has "lead " his team to a ring, altough you could really discuss seeing the per, and the WS, that Pau "lead" Lakers to TWO rings.

Then in the international stage, is obvius that Pau has had much better help than Dirk with his teamates.
And as a result Pau has liek 10x times the international accolades Dirk Has.

That makes the comparison reasonable.
You're focusing way too much on rings and team accomplishments. If you want to argue that Dirk has had more help in Dallas than Pau had in Memphis, couldn't you just as easily argue that Pau has had far more help in Spain than Dirk has had in Germany?

So suppose we throw out all team accomplishments and look solely at the numbers. Dirk absolutely CRUSHES Pau statistically. This is not debatable. At his peak, Dirk was without a doubt one of the five best players in the NBA and he has an MVP (not sure if it was deserved, though). Pau was never close to being one of the five best players in the NBA and never would have been in consideration of an MVP.

Bottom line, Dirk is a better basketball player than Pau. I don't care how you look at it, Dirk has to be the answer if we're excluding guys like Hakeem and Duncan.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 03:46 PM
You're focusing way too much on rings and team accomplishments. If you want to argue that Dirk has had more help in Dallas than Pau had in Memphis, couldn't you just as easily argue that Pau has had far more help in Spain than Dirk has had in Germany?So suppose we throw out all team accomplishments and look solely at the numbers. Dirk absolutely CRUSHES Pau statistically. This is not debatable. At his peak, Dirk was without a doubt one of the five best players in the NBA and he has an MVP (not sure if it was deserved, though). Pau was never close to being one of the five best players in the NBA and never would have been in consideration of an MVP.

Bottom line, Dirk is a better basketball player than Pau. I don't care how you look at it, Dirk has to be the answer if we're excluding guys like Hakeem and Duncan.

thats what i was saying , and that thing is what makes the thing comparable.

btw , the fact that dirk was a better scorer does not mean much when he was worse rebounder, passer, defender and etc.

It would be interesting if the lakers make some stupid trade that puts Pau as leader of a team with Mavs 11 like pieces and see what happens.

Anyway, had sabonis reported to the blazers in 1987 and not get his knees ****ed up with injurys, we wouldnt be having this discussion, and Jordan would not have 6 rings and would not be considered as the almost unanimous goat. :D

mightybosstone
12-12-2012, 04:12 PM
btw , the fact that dirk was a better scorer does not mean much when he was worse rebounder, passer, defender and etc.
This is true, but Pau was never a particularly great rebounder, passer or defender. In fact, I'd only give him a slight edge in those categories over Dirk, who was probably about average for his position in those areas. However, Dirk absolutely destroys Pau in terms of scoring and overall offensive skill. That's what gives him such a significant edge. He's a 7-footer who can handle and score like a SG.


It would be interesting if the lakers make some stupid trade that puts Pau as leader of a team with Mavs 11 like pieces and see what happens.
Even when Pau was in Memphis, his scoring numbers didn't come close to Dirk. Dirk has averaged at least 21.5 PPG in 12 consecutive seasons and he has topped 23+ nine of those years. Pau has never even put up 21 in a single season.


Anyway, had sabonis reported to the blazers in 1987 and not get his knees ****ed up with injurys, we wouldnt be having this discussion, and Jordan would not have 6 rings and would not be considered as the almost unanimous goat. :D
I do think Sabonis would have been one of the best players in the NBA had he joined the league earlier, but I'm not sure that pushes the Blazers over the Bulls in 92 or the Pistons in 90. Those series certainly would have been more competitive.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 04:14 PM
This is true, but Pau was never a particularly great rebounder, passer or defender. In fact, I'd only give him a slight edge in those categories over Dirk, who was probably about average for his position in those areas. However, Dirk absolutely destroys Pau in terms of scoring and overall offensive skill. That's what gives him such a significant edge. He's a 7-footer who can handle and score like a SG.


Even when Pau was in Memphis, his scoring numbers didn't come close to Dirk. Dirk has averaged at least 21.5 PPG in 12 consecutive seasons and he has topped 23+ nine of those years. Pau has never even put up 21 in a single season.


I do think Sabonis would have been one of the best players in the NBA had he joined the league earlier, but I'm not sure that pushes the Blazers over the Bulls.


Is allen iverson better than magic johnson?

The fact you CAN score doesnt mean the best for the team is to score.

Pau thinks team first, look for the open man.

Dirk thinks shoot first.

And sorry but Pau has BETTER handles than dirk too.

He started his career as Sf in europe.

And we better not start talking bout offensive ability regarding moves in the post, wich btw is what is expected for a big man.

mightybosstone
12-12-2012, 04:27 PM
Is allen iverson better than magic johnson?
This is just a horrible comparison. Magic was WAY better at every area other than scoring than Iverson whereas Gasol was only slightly better in those areas you mentioned. This is far too extreme.


The fact you CAN score doesnt mean the best for the team is to score.
Dirk has won a title as the alpha dog, whereas Pau never made it out of the second round, so clearly scoring has worked for Dirk.


Pau thinks team first, look for the open man. Dirk thinks shoot first.
Okay... but how does that make Pau better or make him worthy of being in Dirks' level? Dirk wants the ball in his hands with the game is on the line and looks to score first because that's his instinct.


And sorry but Pau has BETTER handles than dirk too.
This is debatable. Pau is a better passer and can certainly dribble when required, but Dirk can take guys off the dribble 20 feet from the basket every single game. How often do you see Pau do that?


And we better not start talking bout offensive ability regarding moves in the post, wich btw is what is expected for a big man.
I never said he was the better post scorer. I said he's more skilled offensively. He can score from anywhere on the floor, take defenders off the dribble and is superior at drawing fouls. Dirk is the more skilled offensive player, and I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise.

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 04:32 PM
Kukoc has a place in a discussion with Sabonis, Dirk, pau, Divac, Gallis, epi, Gallis.

Dratzen ( and before him Dalipaglic), not so much they were great scorers, but all around......not much d, not much passing, not much anything else.

You cannot seriously compare Toni ****ing Kukoc to Dirk who is a legend.... That's like me comparing Richard Hamilton to Kobe...

Sabonis, talent wise maybe, but he didn't play long.

HELL ****ing no to Divac.

Had Drazen Petrovic lived, he very well could have been right there with Dirk as top international player.

Overall if you count Hakeem, then he is #1.

Gasol is not even close to Dirk's league... Didn't do **** in Memphis and once he's paired with Kobe, Odom and Bynum he wins. Don't disrespect Dirk like that.

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 04:39 PM
In 101 career postseason games, Gasol averages 9.5 rebounds per game.

In 128 career postseason games, Nowitzki averages 10.3 rebounds per game.


Dirk averages 25.9 ppg to 17.3 for Gaso in the postseason. Dirk is one of 3 players to put up 25/10 for his career in the postseason. It may be 4, I can't remember now.

For extra ***** and giggles, Dirk is 8-0 all time vs Gasol in the postseason.

Dirk has an MVP, a Finals MVP, 11x All Star, 12 All NBA Teams (4 1st) while Gasol has no MVP's, is a 4x All Star, has 3 All NBA Teams (no 1st teams).


Gasol should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dirk. Dirk is a legend around top 20 players of all time while Gasol will make the Hall of Fame due to his international career and still isn't top 100 players of all time.

Dirk's championship run was one of the greatest things in basketball history. Gasol has never had anything remotely close to that.

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 04:44 PM
How much silverware dows Dirk Have in the international stage?

Ok, lets put it this way.

Nba dirk has had more help in Mavs than Pau had in memphis when he was a leader.
That is not debatable.
As a result Dirk has "lead " his team to a ring, altough you could really discuss seeing the per, and the WS, that Pau "lead" Lakers to TWO rings.

Then in the international stage, is obvius that Pau has had much better help than Dirk with his teamates.
And as a result Pau has liek 10x times the international accolades Dirk Has.


That makes the comparison reasonable.

So Gasol gets more credit for the two rings yet you leave out that he had a superstar, a star center and a star talented 6th man on his team.

And don't act like Dirk had so much talent. Terry was a 6th man, Josh Howard was INCREDIBLY inconsistent..... Want to know Dirk's centers before Chandler? Erick Dampier, Desagana Diop, Shawn Bradley, Danny Fortson, etc...

Dirk took a team with a starting lineup of: Devin Harris, Adrian Griffin, Josh Howard and Erick Dampier along with Terry, Stackhouse, Marquis Daniels as key players off of the bench. Not the greatest team.

Even in 2011, the Mavs had one of the best TEAMS I have ever seen but Dirk was the only star on that team. Name me the last time that happened. Hakeem probably?

Gasol is not even close to Dirk and it is not debatable.

Sssmush
12-12-2012, 04:53 PM
I'd certainly have to say that it is between Spaniago Hispanico, the infamous Spanish power forward also known as "el Diablo," and Jacques LeFrenchGuy, the amazingly skilled point guard also known as "Le Rascale."

We might also include the legendary Chinese center Dang Dat-Guyh-Tal, as well as the Zimbabwean star Smackem AllInDaFace, perhaps the greatest defender in NBA history.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 04:54 PM
In 101 career postseason games, Gasol averages 9.5 rebounds per game.

In 128 career postseason games, Nowitzki averages 10.3 rebounds per game.


Dirk averages 25.9 ppg to 17.3 for Gaso in the postseason. Dirk is one of 3 players to put up 25/10 for his career in the postseason. It may be 4, I can't remember now.

For extra ***** and giggles, Dirk is 8-0 all time vs Gasol in the postseason.

Dirk has an MVP, a Finals MVP, 11x All Star, 12 All NBA Teams (4 1st) while Gasol has no MVP's, is a 4x All Star, has 3 All NBA Teams (no 1st teams).


Gasol should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dirk. Dirk is a legend around top 20 players of all time while Gasol will make the Hall of Fame due to his international career and still isn't top 100 players of all time.

Dirk's championship run was one of the greatest things in basketball history. Gasol has never had anything remotely close to that.

bua ha ha ha ha ah ah aha haa :facepalm: go to sleep man go to sleep.

Sssmush
12-12-2012, 04:59 PM
So Gasol gets more credit for the two rings yet you leave out that he had a superstar, a star center and a star talented 6th man on his team.

And don't act like Dirk had so much talent. Terry was a 6th man, Josh Howard was INCREDIBLY inconsistent..... Want to know Dirk's centers before Chandler? Erick Dampier, Desagana Diop, Shawn Bradley, Danny Fortson, etc...

Dirk took a team with a starting lineup of: Devin Harris, Adrian Griffin, Josh Howard and Erick Dampier along with Terry, Stackhouse, Marquis Daniels as key players off of the bench. Not the greatest team.

Even in 2011, the Mavs had one of the best TEAMS I have ever seen but Dirk was the only star on that team. Name me the last time that happened. Hakeem probably?

Gasol is not even close to Dirk and it is not debatable.

Ultimately, it is very likely that Gasol will be ranked ahead of Dirk.

Dirk is a nice jump shooter and he is tall, but Gasol has many more levels of skill and ability, and is an extremely unique kind of player.

Also, Dirk seems to be slowing down all of a sudden, where as its likely that Gasol may have another 4-6 years of productivity in him, and might even add a couple more titles or even he has a really hot year possibly even an MVP is not out of the question.

meanwhile Dirk will just chuck jumpshots, and have an expression during interviews like he is pinching a loaf or something

heyman321
12-12-2012, 05:10 PM
Ultimately, it is very likely that Gasol will be ranked ahead of Dirk.

Dirk is a nice jump shooter and he is tall, but Gasol has many more levels of skill and ability, and is an extremely unique kind of player.

Also, Dirk seems to be slowing down all of a sudden, where as its likely that Gasol may have another 4-6 years of productivity in him, and might even add a couple more titles or even he has a really hot year possibly even an MVP is not out of the question.

meanwhile Dirk will just chuck jumpshots, and have an expression during interviews like he is pinching a loaf or something

Lmao, this is so wrong I don't know where to begin.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Lmao, this is so wrong I don't know where to begin.

he is trolling.

RonE Coleman
12-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Dirk.

mightybosstone
12-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Ultimately, it is very likely that Gasol will be ranked ahead of Dirk.

Dirk is a nice jump shooter and he is tall, but Gasol has many more levels of skill and ability, and is an extremely unique kind of player.

Also, Dirk seems to be slowing down all of a sudden, where as its likely that Gasol may have another 4-6 years of productivity in him, and might even add a couple more titles or even he has a really hot year possibly even an MVP is not out of the question.

meanwhile Dirk will just chuck jumpshots, and have an expression during interviews like he is pinching a loaf or something

You are either a very obvious troll or a very stupid man.

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Ultimately, it is very likely that Gasol will be ranked ahead of Dirk.

Dirk is a nice jump shooter and he is tall, but Gasol has many more levels of skill and ability, and is an extremely unique kind of player.

Also, Dirk seems to be slowing down all of a sudden, where as its likely that Gasol may have another 4-6 years of productivity in him, and might even add a couple more titles or even he has a really hot year possibly even an MVP is not out of the question.

meanwhile Dirk will just chuck jumpshots, and have an expression during interviews like he is pinching a loaf or something

How anyone can rank Gasol ahead of Dirk blows my mind...

Dirk isn't just a jmpshooter. He averages around 8 boards per game for his career including over 10 for his playoff career. He is a very good rebounder. Dirk is a very good passer as well. Didn't develop that until 07-08 (around then) but he is a very good passer. He isn't the greatest defender but he is above average as is Gasol.

Dirk is slowing down because of a nagging injury and age. It's easy for Pau to get his when he plays with a guy like Kobe. And if he wins a few more rings, that's due to Kobe/Dwight and whatever star they get soon. Gasol will never get an MVP. Wouldn't matter if he was the best PF in the game (he isn't). Durant and LeBron run this league.

diehardlaker824
12-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Are we just going to discount Manu Ginobili in this discussion? He has more championships than both Pau and Dirk. Is a 6th man a really good team that is a contender every year. Internationally has more accolades than both Pau and Dirk. His numbers are lower than both guys, but you can't tell me he isn't just a important as either of those guys. He has all the skill in the world passing, shooting, defense, and hes clutch.

Faneik
12-12-2012, 05:14 PM
Tony Parker has been flying under the radar also

It's Dirk for me

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 05:15 PM
bua ha ha ha ha ah ah aha haa :facepalm: go to sleep man go to sleep.

Ok he's probably top 75. But how in the hell is that close to Dirk's top 20-25 ranking?

And when you talk about vaulting him over Dirk because of INTL play, Spain has had the best international. How many really good players does Germany have?

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 05:16 PM
Are we just going to discount Manu Ginobili in this discussion? He has more championships than both Pau and Dirk. Is a 6th man a really good team that is a contender every year. Internationally has more accolades than both Pau and Dirk. His numbers are lower than both guys, but you can't tell me he isn't just a important as either of those guys. He has all the skill in the world passing, shooting, defense, and hes clutch.

Ginobili as the man won't win a ring. Take Ginobili off the Spurs and they are still borderline contenders Take Dirk off the Mavs the past decade and playoffs are a rarity for them.

Not brushing off Ginobili though. He is a very special player.

Bishnoff
12-12-2012, 05:19 PM
I think it's sad that when International players are the topic, 90% of posters can only name guys who've played in the NBA.

heyman321
12-12-2012, 05:22 PM
I think it's sad that when International players are the topic, 90% of posters can only name guys who've played in the NBA.

That's cause the NBA is the pinnacle of competitive basketball. Who cares if someone has won Spanish or CBA championships? Why do you think the best international players are playing in the NBA?

Sssmush
12-12-2012, 05:23 PM
How anyone can rank Gasol ahead of Dirk blows my mind...

Dirk isn't just a jmpshooter. He averages around 8 boards per game for his career including over 10 for his playoff career. He is a very good rebounder. Dirk is a very good passer as well. Didn't develop that until 07-08 (around then) but he is a very good passer. He isn't the greatest defender but he is above average as is Gasol.

Dirk is slowing down because of a nagging injury and age. It's easy for Pau to get his when he plays with a guy like Kobe. And if he wins a few more rings, that's due to Kobe/Dwight and whatever star they get soon. Gasol will never get an MVP. Wouldn't matter if he was the best PF in the game (he isn't). Durant and LeBron run this league.

I mean, all excuses aside, it clearly seems as if Pau will start to pull away from Dirk at this stage in their careers.

I mean they're very different players, but Gasol is quicker, more creative around the basket and also just far more of a true center or PF. Dirk is more like some kind of 7 foot shooting guard or something. Don't get me wrong he is good, but without a supporting cast you'll probably continue to see Dirk doing what he is doing, which is nothing.

Sssmush
12-12-2012, 05:24 PM
You are either a very obvious troll or a very stupid man.

I assure you, sir, that I can be both.

ClearSoulForce
12-12-2012, 05:26 PM
I mean, all excuses aside, it clearly seems as if Pau will start to pull away from Dirk at this stage in their careers.

I mean they're very different players, but Gasol is quicker, more creative around the basket and also just far more of a true center or PF. Dirk is more like some kind of 7 foot shooting guard or something. Don't get me wrong he is good, but without a supporting cast you'll probably continue to see Dirk doing what he is doing, which is nothing.

Who does anything without a supporting cast though? Kobe had a **** team and didn't make the playoffs. KG did as well too. LeBron did but he is on a whole other level.

And put Gasol on this Mavs team or last years team and it is MUCH worse.

heyman321
12-12-2012, 05:28 PM
Gasol for Dirk right now, and the Lakers are guaranteed a championship.

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 05:39 PM
Gasol for Dirk right now, and the Lakers are guaranteed a championship.

only if Dantoni goes to mavs with Gasol.

Otherwise.

Forget it.

and i can play the game too.

If lakers are stupid enough to trade gasol for stoudamire the knicks get a granted ring.

Daaaarryyl
12-12-2012, 05:41 PM
isn't kobe from italy?

I didn't even think about that. Well he was born in the US though, right?


I'd still say no though because he played his HS ball here etc.

TheNumber37
12-12-2012, 05:41 PM
haha, guys. its hakeem. Dirk is number 2.

think what youre saying... Dirk > hakeem

Hellcrooner
12-12-2012, 05:41 PM
I think it's sad that when International players are the topic, 90% of posters can only name guys who've played in the NBA.

You read my posts┐


And Andrew Gaze > Andrew Bogut :D

mightybosstone
12-12-2012, 05:44 PM
haha, guys. its hakeem. Dirk is number 2.

think what youre saying... Dirk > hakeem

No one is saying that Dirk is better than Hakeem. People are saying that Dirk is the best international player who jumped straight to the NBA and still plays internationally with his own country. Hakeem is the greatest internationally born NBA player, but he played college ball at UH and won a gold medal with Team USA in 1996.

Chronz
12-12-2012, 05:44 PM
Arvydas then Dirk

Oldmantrash
12-12-2012, 05:46 PM
You have to consider Hakeem international, it's him easy.

Bishnoff
12-12-2012, 05:50 PM
You read my posts┐


And Andrew Gaze > Andrew Bogut :D

I saw your impressive list Hellcrooner. You're in the 10% group.

And yes, Gaze >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bogut. Also, Gaze would play through any injury, sometimes looking like an Egyptian Mummy with all the bandages. Bogut creates injuries so that he doesn't have to play.

abe_froman
12-12-2012, 05:56 PM
hakeem
dirk
sabonis

this is mine,but 2 and 3 can be in any order