PDA

View Full Version : Lin without Harden?



AWC713
12-10-2012, 11:46 PM
Everyone is well aware of Lin's struggles this year.

But in his first game without Harden (injured ankle), Lin had himself a game.

38 points, 7 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals and 2 blocks. 11-21 from the field, 4-5 from 3, and 12-12 from the line.

Is Harden really affecting Lin's play THAT much?

Max.This
12-10-2012, 11:48 PM
i was thinking the same thing, but if you work with the cards your dealt so he needs to adjust.

bucketss
12-10-2012, 11:50 PM
he did what? :speechless:

Swashcuff
12-10-2012, 11:53 PM
Harden must be affecting Asik as well since he set a career high tonight and Lin tied his.

Premature overreaction much? It's one game lets not live in the moment. A total of 260 points were scored in this one defense really wasn't the order of the day (though we saw some great defensive possessions by the Spurs late) and Lin was hot from the field as well.

I agree that Harden affects Lin's production is a more negative way than a positive but I don't think he's holding him back from being a star or something.

KniCks4LiFe
12-10-2012, 11:54 PM
They need to figure out how to use Lin and Harden. And the main problem is that they have been f'n w/ Lin's game making him this run off screens and camp at the 3 pt. line player. That's not his game. Through out this game they let Lin run the offense for the first time all season and then Toney Douglas gave him a breather being the 2nd pg. He looked comfortable, no other way to say it. Figure it out Houston. Figure it out, b/c if Harden, Lin and Parson are going off watch out.

SanAntonioSpurs23
12-10-2012, 11:57 PM
He also let Parker drop a trip dub on him.

KniCks4LiFe
12-10-2012, 11:59 PM
He also let Parker drop a trip dub on him.

Tony Parker is a great player. Parker dropped 27 on him, Lin dropped 34.

Andrew32
12-11-2012, 12:00 AM
Harden is a cancer.
Both Durant and W-Brick have improved this year without him hogging the ball.

jam
12-11-2012, 12:01 AM
Harden must be affecting Asik as well since he set a career high tonight and Lin tied his.

Premature overreaction much? It's one game lets not live in the moment. A total of 260 points were scored in this one defense really wasn't the order of the day (though we saw some great defensive possessions by the Spurs late) and Lin was hot from the field as well.

I agree that Harden affects Lin's production is a more negative way than a positive but I don't think he's holding him back from being a star or something.

Your post is completely incoherent. You must be black. :)

KniCks4LiFe
12-11-2012, 12:03 AM
Harden is a cancer.
Both Durant and W-Brick have improved this year without him hogging the ball.

chill homie. That dude is a star, the coaching staff in Houston is just f'n confused.

Swashcuff
12-11-2012, 12:04 AM
Harden is a cancer.
Both Durant and W-Brick have improved this year without him hogging the ball.

The way people throw around this word Cancer really makes me wonder if the have any idea what it means in sports.

Asik, Patterson and Parsons have all improved since playing with Harden. :shrug: Harden also rarely hogged the ball since when he played played less than half his minutes with Westy and KD.


Your post is completely incoherent. You must be black. :)

Haha yup

Andrew32
12-11-2012, 12:04 AM
chill homie. That dude is a star, the coaching staff in Houston is just f'n confused.

I am just kidding around.

KniCks4LiFe
12-11-2012, 12:05 AM
I am just kidding around.

green font next time

KnickaBocka.44
12-11-2012, 12:05 AM
Harden is a cancer.
Both Durant and W-Brick have improved this year without him hogging the ball.

wow. yeah, thats it :rolleyes:

waveycrockett
12-11-2012, 12:07 AM
Linsanity only works when your superstar is injured

Swashcuff
12-11-2012, 12:09 AM
Linsanity only works when your superstar is injured

Harden isn't a superstar though :shrug:

KniCks4LiFe
12-11-2012, 12:12 AM
it's not even that! why do people think it's Harden? or anyone. It's simple, they have to stop using him as a winger. If you're going to use somebody like that, make Harden come off screens and shoot. That's not Lin's game. Houston has been so stupid playing him like he's Reggie or Rip, that's not Lin. He'll play mediocore if you play him like that. Use the pnr, have him 1 on 1 drive take contact, kickout, that's Lin's game.

It's just ridiculous knowing how well Harden is shooting from 3, why not use him as that screen player? hell Lin could set him up for 30 pts. that way, if they close out Harden still goes to the rim.

ColtsSpursTerps
12-11-2012, 12:14 AM
and yet people are gonna continue to talk about lin like he's some P squad player

curtcocaine
12-11-2012, 12:36 AM
Trade harden to la for gasol then everybody's happy

KniCks4LiFe
12-11-2012, 12:39 AM
D'Antoni would be happy! :laugh2: Just run Harden off screens. Switch the roles. That's all.

Daaaarryyl
12-11-2012, 01:40 AM
Lin and Harden can't play together. I blame Melo...

Blitzace137
12-11-2012, 02:21 AM
it's not even that! why do people think it's Harden? or anyone. It's simple, they have to stop using him as a winger. If you're going to use somebody like that, make Harden come off screens and shoot. That's not Lin's game. Houston has been so stupid playing him like he's Reggie or Rip, that's not Lin. He'll play mediocore if you play him like that. Use the pnr, have him 1 on 1 drive take contact, kickout, that's Lin's game.

It's just ridiculous knowing how well Harden is shooting from 3, why not use him as that screen player? hell Lin could set him up for 30 pts. that way, if they close out Harden still goes to the rim.

I've been saying this for a while. Their using Lin incorrectly since Hardens arrival.

felixng2012
12-11-2012, 02:24 AM
Harden and Lin don't really work well together but they can work a lot better.
The primary problem is that they are using Lin extremely poorly. They are using him like a spot up 3 point shooter. Mchale is a terrible coach. He is makes VDN look good. He took out Lin when he was hot and the offense went stagnant. This is why the game went into OT. The Rockets would have won if their coach was even 1/10th as good as Popovich.

SouthSideRookie
12-11-2012, 02:28 AM
They need to figure out how to use Lin and Harden. And the main problem is that they have been f'n w/ Lin's game making him this run off screens and camp at the 3 pt. line player. That's not his game. Through out this game they let Lin run the offense for the first time all season and then Toney Douglas gave him a breather being the 2nd pg. He looked comfortable, no other way to say it. Figure it out Houston. Figure it out, b/c if Harden, Lin and Parson are going off watch out.

Yeap pretty much.

Chronz
12-11-2012, 02:33 AM
Mchale needs to stagger their lineups slot more than he has but I'm guessing hes trying to force start they chemistry together

yanksrock
12-11-2012, 02:44 AM
Happy for Lin.

jam
12-11-2012, 03:18 AM
McHale and Sampson. Dumb and Dumber. /thread.

JayW_1023
12-11-2012, 05:20 AM
Lin is a really solid, starter worthy guard. Which he proved tonight.

eternal slumber
12-11-2012, 06:01 AM
if both Harden and Lin can play together, this team should be fun to watch. i bet nobody was more happier than Morey seeing Lin play like this.

KingPosey
12-11-2012, 06:34 AM
The problem is that Harden is a combo guard/ forward that handles the ball and facilitates. Lin needs the ball to be affective. He isnt a great shooter let alone a spot up shooter. His game is flawed, but he is very good at getting into the lane, collapsing the D, and creating as he goes. They both cant handle the ball at the same time.

KingPosey
12-11-2012, 06:39 AM
He also let Parker drop a trip dub on him.

Parker is a stud, flat out. But he dropped a triple double and still got outplayed tonight.

cleptopot
12-11-2012, 09:50 AM
This isnt a big deal because he did it against the spurs. They play 0 defense

GiantsSwaGG
12-11-2012, 09:54 AM
It's Melo fault

Swashcuff
12-11-2012, 10:06 AM
This isnt a big deal because he did it against the spurs. They play 0 defense

:laugh2:

Even after last night the Spurs are still a better than 25 other teams defensively. Inclusive of the Knicks. If they don't play any D then NO ONE plays D. You clearly don't know anything about the NBA.

Captain Moroni
12-11-2012, 10:28 AM
Way to go Jeremy......atta boy

GiantsSwaGG
12-11-2012, 10:33 AM
This isnt a big deal because he did it against the spurs. They play 0 defense

:facepalm:

NYY 26 to 7
12-11-2012, 10:46 AM
Wow I was watching football last night so I didn't see this. That is crazy - this is a good thread who cares if it was one game. Maybe it is Harden I know his role has a lot to do with it but that much? He goes from 4 pts, 4 pts, and 7 pts on about 30% shooting over his last 3 games to 38 points on 52%? It raises some legit questions. We have certainly seen that he is best when he can dominate the ball but why is he so bad off the ball? His shooting has been deplorable throughout the season. Now Harden goes out and he can't miss - including from 3? Start the Harden and Lin can't play together discussion...

ManRam
12-11-2012, 10:59 AM
Coincidence.

mightybosstone
12-11-2012, 10:59 AM
The problem is that they don't stagger Lin and Harden's minutes enough. I've been saying since the second week of the season that they need to stagger their minutes so that Lin can control the offense when Harden isn't on the floor and vice versa. Also, they need to let Lin control the ball a little more offensively when Harden is in the lineup. Clearly Harden is a superior player off the ball than Lin is.

There is too much talent on the backcourt for the coaching staff to not figure this out and maximize their potential. But clearly last night showed that last season's Linsanity wasn't completely a fluke and that the kid has talent. Fortunately, they have three years to figure it out, but I'd like to see a significant improvement by the end of the season.

Oldmantrash
12-11-2012, 11:29 AM
Lin needs the ball to be effective, Dantoni gave it to him last year with Melo out, and with Harden out he had it again.

He is not an off the ball player, not a spot up shooter, and doesn't move well without the ball.

He could put up great numbers regularly if a coach gave it to him, but that would probably mean not such a great team.

colinskik
12-11-2012, 11:51 AM
Tony Parker is a great player. Parker dropped 27 on him, Lin dropped 34.
A great player who notched his FIRST trip-dub last night. Chew on that.

mightybosstone
12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
Lin needs the ball to be effective, Dantoni gave it to him last year with Melo out, and with Harden out he had it again.

He is not an off the ball player, not a spot up shooter, and doesn't move well without the ball.

He could put up great numbers regularly if a coach gave it to him, but that would probably mean not such a great team.

I agree with this. For Lin and Harden to coexist, both guys have to learn to be effective when the other guy has the ball in his hands. Harden can. Lin can't at this point. Lin has to seriously work on his jump shot to improve his game as a spot up shooter and coaches need to teach him how to move better without the ball in his hands.

There have been glimpses of them working well together, though. And I do think it's possible, but it's going to take time to develop chemistry together. They're still only 24 years old.

torocan
12-11-2012, 12:21 PM
Wow I was watching football last night so I didn't see this. That is crazy - this is a good thread who cares if it was one game. Maybe it is Harden I know his role has a lot to do with it but that much? He goes from 4 pts, 4 pts, and 7 pts on about 30% shooting over his last 3 games to 38 points on 52%? It raises some legit questions. We have certainly seen that he is best when he can dominate the ball but why is he so bad off the ball? His shooting has been deplorable throughout the season. Now Harden goes out and he can't miss - including from 3? Start the Harden and Lin can't play together discussion...

His coaches have said that Lin is best when he's given the freedom to do his thing, IE that he's best when the ball is in his hands and he's able to get into a rhythm.

The statistics last season bear this out. He was a mediocre catch and shoot player, but an excellent PnR and Isolation player, and his scoring off the dribble was fantastic all last season.

Lin isn't a player that you can drop into a game and expect to get great results as a spot up shooter. However, give him the ball and he finds his rhythm.

This is from an article in July.


JUMPERS OFF THE DRIBBLE

Despite shooting just 33 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers last season, Lin shot 48 percent on jumpers off the dribble.

Highest FG pct on Jumpers off the Dribble

Minimum 90 FGA Last Season

Stephen Curry 52.9
Steve Nash 48.5
Jeremy Lin 47.9
Gary Neal 46.6
Delonte West 46.2
Felton: 32.7 FG percentage
(85th of 102 players)

Of the 102 players who attempted at least 90 jumpers off the dribble, only Stephen Curry and Steve Nash shot a higher field goal percentage than Lin.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/47791/felton-over-lin-are-the-knicks-lin-sane

I think the main problem is that Harden has been playing the PG Role. Harden is the primary scorer, but not letting Lin get into his rhythm as the point guard basically plays into his weaknesses.

It's no better than asking Melo to shoot spot up 3's all game, or Dirk Nowitzki to play a fast transition game, or asking Novak to do dribble drives and kicks. Sure, you might be able to get them to do it, but the results won't be what you want.

On an interesting side note, Lin's box score was 38 points and 7 assists, identical to the Lakers game. He played 42 minutes (39 in the Lakers game).

It got me wondering... how many players as young as Lin have put up a similar box score, let alone TWICE playing similar minutes.

The results were fascinating.

Since 1980-81, ages 18-24, playing 45 or fewer minutes...

There are 28 guards who scored 38/7 at least ONCE.
There are 11 guards who scored 38/7 at least TWICE.

Gilbert Arenas
Kobe Bryant
Ricky Davis
Allen Iverson
Kevin Johnson
Michael Jordan
Stephon Marbury
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Russell Westbrook

To see if I was cherry picking, I further reduced the bar to 35 points and 5 assists. This expanded the list to a total of 15 guards since 1980-81 aside from Jeremy Lin.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=18&age_max=24&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&c1stat=ast&c1comp=gt&c1val=7&c2stat=pts&c2comp=gt&c2val=38&c3stat=mp&c3comp=lt&c3val=45&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Expanding the list to ALL positions, the list increases to 54 players of ANY position since 1980-1981.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=18&age_max=24&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=35&c2stat=ast&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=mp&c3comp=lt&c3val=45&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=player&order_by_asc=Y

And just for kicks, the TOTAL number of players of ANY position that have put up 38/7 *twice* or more since 1980-81 for ALL positions Regardless of age with 45 or fewer minutes played?

33 players since 1980-81, not including Jeremy Lin.

What do these fascinating stats say about Jeremy Lin? I have No idea, other than history bears out that it's REALLY hard to put up those kinds of numbers for Two different games, even over an entire career, regardless of position, regardless of age.

45 starts. 84 career games.

I still have no idea how good Jeremy Lin will be, but by the time it's all said and done I'll bet dollars to donuts it won't be just *average*.

BklynKnicks3
12-11-2012, 12:26 PM
its the same issue he had with melo harden needs the ball in his hands. Its the same issue coward and wade have when one has the ball in the halfcourt offense the other is not much of a factor

mightybosstone
12-11-2012, 12:29 PM
its the same issue he had with melo harden needs the ball in his hands. Its the same issue coward and wade have when one has the ball in the halfcourt offense the other is not much of a factor

It's official. You can't go a single post without insulting Lebron James. You even bring him up in a thread about two completely unrelated teams.

Chronz
12-11-2012, 12:53 PM
The problem is that they don't stagger Lin and Harden's minutes enough.

Do you think they are sacrificing wins in the present to better hasten their on court chemistry together? What other possibility could there be?

mightybosstone
12-11-2012, 12:57 PM
Do you think they are sacrificing wins in the present to better hasten their on court chemistry together? What other possibility could there be?

This would be a logical explanation except that they have benched Lin for Toney Douglas a TON this season, especially late in games. If they cared more about developing their young backcourt, then they need to be patient with Lin and let him work out how to play with Harden. Benching him late in games isn't going to help his development at all.

PlezPlayDKnicks
12-11-2012, 01:06 PM
This would be a logical explanation except that they have benched Lin for Toney Douglas a TON this season, especially late in games. If they cared more about developing their young backcourt, then they need to be patient with Lin and let him work out how to play with Harden. Benching him late in games isn't going to help his development at all.

That would make sense. Sorry but I dont like K Mchale as a coach and it will be forever eched in my memory how he kept KLove glued to the bench instead of developing him properly.

KnickFanSince91
12-11-2012, 01:08 PM
This would be a logical explanation except that they have benched Lin for Toney Douglas a TON this season, especially late in games. If they cared more about developing their young backcourt, then they need to be patient with Lin and let him work out how to play with Harden. Benching him late in games isn't going to help his development at all.

He was benched because he was playing Steve Nash defense.

BklynKnicks3
12-11-2012, 01:10 PM
It's official. You can't go a single post without insulting Lebron James. You even bring him up in a thread about two completely unrelated teams.

u might be right lol

PlezPlayDKnicks
12-11-2012, 01:10 PM
He was benched because he was playing Steve Nash defense.

You watched the game?? Or is it that Toney is the better spot shooter for Harden to pass to. I could guess too LOL

mightybosstone
12-11-2012, 01:20 PM
He was benched because he was playing Steve Nash defense.

You watched the game?? Or is it that Toney is the better spot shooter for Harden to pass to. I could guess too LOL
It's both of these, actually. Douglas has been the better fit next to Harden and he's been the better defender. But I still think that if the Rockets are serious about developing Lin, they need to start playing him like a starter.

Stinkyoutsider
12-11-2012, 01:35 PM
This is the first year those guys are teaming up so I would like to see how Lin and Harden team up near the end of the year...

I think the Rockets coaching staff will need to take their time with both Lin and Harden so they can gradually adjust their games. Both guys are at their best with the ball in their hands, so I think both players are good enough to be versatile. I think both of those guys are good passers and finishers at the basket so this is a win win for the Rockets.

They just need to take their time and coach these guys up so Lin will start to have big games when Harden is around and not defer to him.

Chronz
12-11-2012, 01:38 PM
This would be a logical explanation except that they have benched Lin for Toney Douglas a TON this season, especially late in games. If they cared more about developing their young backcourt, then they need to be patient with Lin and let him work out how to play with Harden. Benching him late in games isn't going to help his development at all.

Late in games is one thing, if your within striking distance and you think someone else will give you the better shot at winning then I think any coach would go for it. But for them to be resting together is odd.

Sly Guy
12-11-2012, 02:36 PM
someone hand him the keys to the franchise. Please!

Losoway
12-11-2012, 06:33 PM
lin only plays good when nobody else on his team is equal to him

LOOTERX9
12-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Lin is not a bad player at all. This is why knicks should not have let such a young asset just walk for nothing. J Kidd would have been a great mentor for him. i'm still skeptical bout Felton ever being more than just an average player. For knicks to get nothin in return from houston is a joke still to this day

kartyea
12-11-2012, 07:48 PM
Lin is not a bad player at all. This is why knicks should not have let such a young asset just walk for nothing. J Kidd would have been a great mentor for him. i'm still skeptical bout Felton ever being more than just an average player. For knicks to get nothin in returb from houston is a joke still to this day

The guy has 1 great game 1 good game and 1 decent game out of 20 and you guys flip your wig, wow! The knicks didn't lose an asset, houston gained an untradeable player. And for everyone who says Lin was such an asset, if this is so, where was the teams lining up for him? They didn't exist.

Evolution23
12-11-2012, 07:51 PM
Yo bro Linsanity is back and Felton is a fat beaver

ColtsSpursTerps
12-12-2012, 12:53 PM
Now all the people saying he was a complete scrub are praising him
dude has proven he has tools that say otherwise, great potential, just needs to learn how to be consistent

Blitzace137
12-12-2012, 02:03 PM
His coaches have said that Lin is best when he's given the freedom to do his thing, IE that he's best when the ball is in his hands and he's able to get into a rhythm.

The statistics last season bear this out. He was a mediocre catch and shoot player, but an excellent PnR and Isolation player, and his scoring off the dribble was fantastic all last season.

Lin isn't a player that you can drop into a game and expect to get great results as a spot up shooter. However, give him the ball and he finds his rhythm.

This is from an article in July.



http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/47791/felton-over-lin-are-the-knicks-lin-sane

I think the main problem is that Harden has been playing the PG Role. Harden is the primary scorer, but not letting Lin get into his rhythm as the point guard basically plays into his weaknesses.

It's no better than asking Melo to shoot spot up 3's all game, or Dirk Nowitzki to play a fast transition game, or asking Novak to do dribble drives and kicks. Sure, you might be able to get them to do it, but the results won't be what you want.

On an interesting side note, Lin's box score was 38 points and 7 assists, identical to the Lakers game. He played 42 minutes (39 in the Lakers game).

It got me wondering... how many players as young as Lin have put up a similar box score, let alone TWICE playing similar minutes.

The results were fascinating.

Since 1980-81, ages 18-24, playing 45 or fewer minutes...

There are 28 guards who scored 38/7 at least ONCE.
There are 11 guards who scored 38/7 at least TWICE.

Gilbert Arenas
Kobe Bryant
Ricky Davis
Allen Iverson
Kevin Johnson
Michael Jordan
Stephon Marbury
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Russell Westbrook

To see if I was cherry picking, I further reduced the bar to 35 points and 5 assists. This expanded the list to a total of 15 guards since 1980-81 aside from Jeremy Lin.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=18&age_max=24&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&c1stat=ast&c1comp=gt&c1val=7&c2stat=pts&c2comp=gt&c2val=38&c3stat=mp&c3comp=lt&c3val=45&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Expanding the list to ALL positions, the list increases to 54 players of ANY position since 1980-1981.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=18&age_max=24&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=35&c2stat=ast&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=mp&c3comp=lt&c3val=45&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=player&order_by_asc=Y

And just for kicks, the TOTAL number of players of ANY position that have put up 38/7 *twice* or more since 1980-81 for ALL positions Regardless of age with 45 or fewer minutes played?

33 players since 1980-81, not including Jeremy Lin.

What do these fascinating stats say about Jeremy Lin? I have No idea, other than history bears out that it's REALLY hard to put up those kinds of numbers for Two different games, even over an entire career, regardless of position, regardless of age.

45 starts. 84 career games.

I still have no idea how good Jeremy Lin will be, but by the time it's all said and done I'll bet dollars to donuts it won't be just *average*.

Good post Toro. The thing with Lin is why should he be a spot up shooter that's not his game? HE's a great player when he runs things I wanna see Lin play his best. If the Rockets wan't a spot up shooter at the point get guys like Mo Williams, Randy Foye or someone else along those lines.

To ask him to be a spot up shooter to me it's a waist of his talents. Even in NY Melo demands the ball alot but Lin would still run things and be the primary playmaker opposed to Houston where they have Harden who's a great playmaker making Lin a non-factor. Lin is not a fit for the Rockets no matter how you slice it, at least thus far playing with Harden.

J.Kidd would have been great for Lin's development add that along with Woodson's defensive mentality and what he demands out of his players and we would have had a great PG for the future. . Plus had we kept Lin Kenny Atkinson would have probably stayed as well and he helped Lin big time last season. IMO McHale won't be enough for Lin

sep11ie
12-12-2012, 02:22 PM
The Rockets biggest problem is not how Lin and Harden play together, it's coaching. McHale is a terrible coach.

FYL_McVeezy
12-12-2012, 02:29 PM
it's not even that! why do people think it's Harden? or anyone. It's simple, they have to stop using him as a winger. If you're going to use somebody like that, make Harden come off screens and shoot. That's not Lin's game. Houston has been so stupid playing him like he's Reggie or Rip, that's not Lin. He'll play mediocore if you play him like that. Use the pnr, have him 1 on 1 drive take contact, kickout, that's Lin's game.

It's just ridiculous knowing how well Harden is shooting from 3, why not use him as that screen player? hell Lin could set him up for 30 pts. that way, if they close out Harden still goes to the rim.

Yes.

That's what happens when you build a backcourt with pieces that don't fit. Exactly why GS traded Monta Ellis...

Lin should be the primary ballhandler/initiator more often

Lin did play 2 guard in college, but he seems more adapt to playing the 1 in the NBA. That's how "Linsanity" started b/c we were desperate at PG.....

ewmania
12-12-2012, 02:31 PM
lin always produce well with roleplayers... when melo and amare was out he was having his best career

only problem is he hasn't proven he could play with another all-star or superstar

NYYCowboys
12-12-2012, 02:38 PM
Problem with the Lin and Harden pairing is both players need to create off the dribble to be successful, and when they play together they both can't do that.

Chronz
12-12-2012, 02:47 PM
Problem with the Lin and Harden pairing is both players need to create off the dribble to be successful, and when they play together they both can't do that.

Sure they can, Harden was able to play with a guy like Westbrook and Durant. I think you guys are making too much out of this.

Lin has had the ball plenty, hes just not as effective as he was last year. Alot of his shooting numbers from last year seemed flukish, combined with a return from injury has stunted his progress. Hes getting his legs back and he and Harden have shown flashes.

I would like to see them spend more time without each other but to say its impossible to pair them successfully is too much.

tr3ymill3r
12-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Lin was constantly trying to defer while Harden was on the floor with him because he knew he would be in hot water for not getting the Superstar the ball. However, Lin is not the prototypical scoring PG, like AI or Westbrook. Look for the offense to change slightly once Harden comes back if Lin continuest to produce like this while he's out.

Blitzace137
12-12-2012, 03:01 PM
Lin was constantly trying to defer while Harden was on the floor with him because he knew he would be in hot water for not getting the Superstar the ball. However, Lin is not the prototypical scoring PG, like AI or Westbrook. Look for the offense to change slightly once Harden comes back if Lin continuest to produce like this while he's out.

It's not impossible for them to play well together, it's up to the Rockets coaches to figure it out. Lin needs the ball more to be effective that's a fact and Harden can play well without the ball they need to balance it out somehow. I noticed it to how Lin tried to always deffer to Harden when he's out there.

Byronicle
12-12-2012, 03:18 PM
lmao after 1 game?

seriously?

linsanity only works when the ball just goes to lin's hand and lin's hands only

PlezPlayDKnicks
12-12-2012, 06:57 PM
lmao after 1 game?

seriously?

linsanity only works when the ball just goes to lin's hand and lin's hands only

Which is why Asik had a career high 21 pts. Foolishness . In ny multiple role players shined with him

Missing56&33
12-12-2012, 09:23 PM
I saw that game.. Lin was great. Harden and Lin have to be able to co exsist. I like the Rockets team....they have a bright future.

rocketfuel
12-13-2012, 03:36 AM
People are just focusing on his points....Lin sets up Harden very well. Half the highlights are of Lin getting Harden an easy score. The offensive scheme isn't that great....they need to get an offensive coaching guru in there to get everyone into the mix.

Trueblue2
12-13-2012, 04:14 AM
Harden isn't a superstar though :shrug:

Neither is melo:rolleyes: