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View Full Version : Kobe to Pau: "Put on your big boy pants and stop whining"



Clippersfan86
12-03-2012, 06:04 AM
http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8704495&city=losangeles

Lmao. Nobody provides more juicy drama than the Lakers. I'm over here laughin pretty good, thanks Kobe.

Ebbs
12-03-2012, 06:25 AM
He isn't getting past the deadline as a Laker.

I kinda feel bad for him. While I think D'antoni will work Pau was the odd man out here and we all knew it.

Asik's better
12-03-2012, 06:35 AM
Gasol just needs to get out of LA. He can still help a team out and has another at least 2 years of good basketball left in him. Honestly, the best place for him is Memphis coming off the bench provided relief for Randolph. Even though that's unlikely with Memphis unlikely to meet what LA want.

shep33
12-03-2012, 06:45 AM
Pau's still a very good player. We aren't utilizing him correctly. If he gets dealt he can help a team tremendously. The problem is he's a center, and we're starting two centers.

shep33
12-03-2012, 06:48 AM
Back to the point. Pau plays better when he gets called out. I think this is just Kobe lighting a fire. No problems with that, Kobe does this with a lot of guys, and he's pretty tight with Pau.

ThunderousDemon
12-03-2012, 06:52 AM
From the makers that brought you,"Where's Waldo?", it's,"Where's Clipper Nation?".

http://cdn.jockpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/nba-fan-map.jpg

netsgiantsyanks
12-03-2012, 06:58 AM
bait.

Andrew32
12-03-2012, 07:00 AM
Seems to be that the people "whining" are Kobe and Pringles.


Pau plays better when he gets called out.
I don't think its appropriate for a leader to "call a player out" like this especially in the media.
Especially to be so condescending and insulting just makes it so much worse.

If they are "tight" he could have done this behind closed doors.

I remember Shaq publicly criticizing Kobe's game back in the early 00's and even then I felt he was wrong for not doing it privately and he didn't use such insulting terms.

shep33
12-03-2012, 07:08 AM
Seems to be that the people "whining" are Kobe and Pringles.


I don't think its appropriate for a leader to "call a player out" and like this especially in the media.
Especially to be so condescending and insulting just makes it so much worse.

If they are "tight" he could have done this behind closed doors.

I remember Shaq publicly criticizing Kobe's game back in the early 00's and even then I felt he was wrong for not doing it privately and he didn't use such insulting terms.


Yeah, I can't really disagree with you. Phil used to call Pau out all the time in the public eye lol. Subtle remarks here and there, added in with some strong sarcasm. I think it'll be fine.

Pau just needs to play. It's almost like he's thinking too much out there. Just play the game. He's being passive in the post now, which I don't understand, since he's been begging for the ball down there. He just needs to come out and play with emotion, like he used to do.

I think he'll pick it up eventually.

Andrew32
12-03-2012, 07:12 AM
I think it'll be fine.
Hopefully but I worry about Pau getting mentally effected by all the negative media attention and what Kobe did just now is only making it worse.

They need to take all this attention off Gasol and find ways to get him more active in the post and then pat his back when he does well.

That is what they did in the late 00's and it worked wonders.
Obviously Pau has declined some since then and is dealing with some health issues but he can still obviously play much better then he has been.

KingPosey
12-03-2012, 07:16 AM
I don't get why everyone doesn't think Pau can work in Mikes offense. A PF that can run the P&R, make you respect his jumper, can pass, is skilled, and has post game to boot. He has played a little soft but Jesus Chrizt he isnt the problem. He has the goods, the Lakers have the goods, find some role players that can shoot, and wait for yor PG THAT MAKES THIS OFFENSE WORK in the first place.

GiantsSwaGG
12-03-2012, 07:16 AM
Pau for Amare.... I'm telling u

KingPosey
12-03-2012, 07:17 AM
Maybe the Lakers shouldn't make their top 2 PF feel come tell unwanted Anually and he would feel comfortable playing?

Mave1002
12-03-2012, 07:26 AM
pau for amare.... I'm telling u

not.

JasonJohnHorn
12-03-2012, 08:16 AM
'Antoni handled the "hack-a-Howard" horribly! Phil Jackson would have known how to respond as he had to do it with Shaq all the time.

Gasol should NOT have been sitting on the bench.

And for the record, I don't remember hearing Gasol "whine" about it.

That said, I'm sure if 'Antoni was not running plays for Kobe and started benching him in hte forth quarter, we would hear a LOT of whining from Kobe and 'Antoni would be out of a job fast!

I mean seriously... sorry Pau isn't as much of a diva as you Kobe? Jeez...

sammyvine
12-03-2012, 08:31 AM
http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8704495&city=losangeles

Lmao. Nobody provides more juicy drama than the Lakers. I'm over here laughin pretty good, thanks Kobe.

Yeah the lakers suck

What was wrong with what he said?:rolleyes:

Gasol needs to step up and ignore that haters.

time4change
12-03-2012, 08:47 AM
Thst what I'm saying.


I don't care that his shots are down. I don't care that they aren't running as many plays for him.

He's 7 feet tall, and an all star player. He should get 12 by default.

He needs to step up.

chrisf975
12-03-2012, 09:11 AM
'Antoni handled the "hack-a-Howard" horribly! Phil Jackson would have known how to respond as he had to do it with Shaq all the time.

Gasol should NOT have been sitting on the bench.

And for the record, I don't remember hearing Gasol "whine" about it.

If they are doing the Hack-a-Howard and Dwight isn't hitting his free throws he needs to be on the bench it's that simple.

Lakers4life08
12-03-2012, 09:49 AM
yeah kobe maybe you need to stop shooting 30 times a game?? its crazy that Kobe shoots more that Howard and Gasol together

TmacBryant
12-03-2012, 10:15 AM
Pau's still a very good player. We aren't utilizing him correctly. If he gets dealt he can help a team tremendously. The problem is he's a center, and we're starting two centers.

He played well with Bynum at his side.

I would like to see him out of the 1st quarter early so he can play with the second unit. When the second unit is missing shots, they can just give it to Pau to post up.

Rndy
12-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Pau for Amare.... I'm telling u

Lakers would be trying to shed payroll not add it for a much worse player. Boozer and Rip could help that bench tho! :)

JiffyMix88
12-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Haha Kobe is showing y he's only been able to win as the number 2 option and now he's ripping the guy who resurrected his career horrible leader

I Rock Shaqs
12-03-2012, 10:21 AM
Kobe Bryant is sexy.

John Walls Era
12-03-2012, 10:41 AM
Pau for Bargnani?

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-03-2012, 10:46 AM
wow... didnt kobe have 10 turnovers the game before, and than was 9-22 before bringing his average up during garbage time last night....

gasol should put on his big boy pants on while watching howard brick fts? yeah ok.

very very very selfish talk by kobe.

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-03-2012, 10:46 AM
man these guys just disrespect the hell out of gasol. smh

VillaMaravilla
12-03-2012, 11:07 AM
Gotta blame someone for the Laker mess why not Gasol....Dwight is so out of there it aint even funny

VillaMaravilla
12-03-2012, 11:09 AM
wow... didnt kobe have 10 turnovers the game before, and than was 9-22 before bringing his average up during garbage time last night....

gasol should put on his big boy pants on while watching howard brick fts? yeah ok.

very very very selfish talk by kobe.

This. But do you expect anything else from the Mamba its what he does

yanksrock
12-03-2012, 11:32 AM
If only the Knicks can snatch him.

JordansBulls
12-03-2012, 11:39 AM
Gasol just needs to ask out no matter where it is to. He gets blamed for everything.

Gram
12-03-2012, 11:48 AM
Haha Kobe is showing y he's only been able to win as the number 2 option and now he's ripping the guy who resurrected his career horrible leader

I still don't understand why people think Kobe has only one as the number 2 guy. With Shaq I understand, but never have I seen a good reason why Kobe wasn't the number one when he won with Pau. Only reasons I hear are that Kobe shot a poor percentage and lame reasons like that.

Kobe always been a great player, not sure why you're saying he's a resurrection of his career. Let's not let the hate get to us, you by no means need to like Kobe but you're just making up crap. Even if that's an opinion it has no justification whatsoever.

kdspurman
12-03-2012, 11:48 AM
I wish Pau would put his "big boy pants on" to tell Kobe to stop running his mouth already about it him.

AddiX
12-03-2012, 11:50 AM
Gasol showed up to la and handed Kobe rings, everyone but lakers fans knows gasol deserved those finals mvps.

Pau gets no respect.

La needs to blame the obvious problem that is mike d. We saw this same kind of nonsense in ny all the time w mike.

Hellcrooner
12-03-2012, 11:54 AM
Gasol showed up to la and handed Kobe rings, everyone but KOBE fans knows gasol deserved those finals mvps.

Pau gets no respect.

La needs to blame the obvious problem that is mike d. We saw this same kind of nonsense in ny all the time w mike.

fixed

VillaMaravilla
12-03-2012, 11:55 AM
Gasol just needs to ask out no matter where it is to. He gets blamed for everything.

He gets them championships and still not good enough....Kobe swears hes some kind of god when in reality hes an overated player who jas never done jack unless he has allstar help

thenaj17
12-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Hopefully but I worry about Pau getting mentally effected by all the negative media attention and what Kobe did just now is only making it worse.

They need to take all this attention off Gasol and find ways to get him more active in the post and then pat his back when he does well.

That is what they did in the late 00's and it worked wonders.
Obviously Pau has declined some since then and is dealing with some health issues but he can still obviously play much better then he has been.

Therein lies the problem, he isn't getting many touches in the post, but when he does he's doing virtually nothing with it and is then publicly moaning in post game interviews that he wants more touches.

Kobe has obviously been asked about Pau's request and is responding - no idea why some people are questioning what Kobe is saying here.

SirSkyHook
12-03-2012, 11:57 AM
Wow. It kills me that people are actually excusing Pau's play, smh. In the interview he said he had to change his game and stay after practice and games to work on pick and roll and ball handeling becuase its whats needed of the team, and its no different for Pau. You cant sit back and make excuses like im more effective i the paint. You make 19 million, If the team needs you to change your game, you do it, and perfect it. Not whine and complain about where your comfortable or not.

Also theres no excuse for his lack of energy, lack of passion, and as James Worthy said when reffering to the team as a whole, lack of professionalism. He his begining to piss me off by the game. Its been over two years of complaining, and excuses Damn It!!! Grow a pair!!! Or put on his Damn Big Boy Pants!!!!!

thenaj17
12-03-2012, 11:57 AM
Gasol showed up to la and handed Kobe rings, everyone but lakers fans knows gasol deserved those finals mvps.

Pau gets no respect.

La needs to blame the obvious problem that is mike d. We saw this same kind of nonsense in ny all the time w mike.

You're talking absolute ****

SirSkyHook
12-03-2012, 12:03 PM
fixed

You know that your full of it right. You have no room to call anyone a seletive players fan. Your loyality to Pau surpasses your love for the Laker's or the Nba. I get it your both spanish but damn, lol

Chronz
12-03-2012, 12:03 PM
'Antoni handled the "hack-a-Howard" horribly! Phil Jackson would have known how to respond as he had to do it with Shaq all the time.

Gasol should NOT have been sitting on the bench.

And for the record, I don't remember hearing Gasol "whine" about it.

What are you talking about? Phil would have kept Shaq in the game too. In this case pringles prolly shouldve gone to Pau but thats because Dwight is no Shaq.


If they are doing the Hack-a-Howard and Dwight isn't hitting his free throws he needs to be on the bench it's that simple.
How do you know when he starts making them?

LAKERMANIA
12-03-2012, 12:08 PM
'Antoni handled the "hack-a-Howard" horribly! Phil Jackson would have known how to respond as he had to do it with Shaq all the time.

Gasol should NOT have been sitting on the bench.

And for the record, I don't remember hearing Gasol "whine" about it.

You can whine privately you know..

SirSkyHook
12-03-2012, 12:14 PM
Haha Kobe is showing y he's only been able to win as the number 2 option and now he's ripping the guy who resurrected his career horrible leader

One hell of a second option for Shaq huh.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HtbJFEzJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QWdsVQN_BE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

etc..........

Without Kobe Shaq dosent get out the West, so I'd say they needed each other, and Gasol? lol, im not even goona justify that with a response. Gasol is a hell of a player. One of my favorite when he plays the game like he gives a damn, but Kobe needed him as much as Jordan needed pippen or any other great needed that didnt win it alone. Stop trying to distort history.

lakerfan85
12-03-2012, 12:29 PM
gasol showed up to la and handed kobe rings, everyone but lakers fans knows gasol deserved those finals mvps.

Pau gets no respect.

La needs to blame the obvious problem that is mike d. We saw this same kind of nonsense in ny all the time w mike.

lol!!!!!!!!!

lakerfan85
12-03-2012, 12:33 PM
He gets them championships and still not good enough....Kobe swears hes some kind of god when in reality hes an overated player who jas never done jack unless he has allstar help

Name one player who's won without having another star on the team...

Hellcrooner
12-03-2012, 12:35 PM
Name one player who's won without having another star on the team...

hakeem.

Rick Barry ( wilkes wasnt a star yet).

There you go two.

SportsFanatic10
12-03-2012, 12:36 PM
lol interesting. classic kobe though, i guess we'll see if his words have the desired effect on pau if his play improves. anytime **** is said in the media it has the potential to backfire though.

Hellcrooner
12-03-2012, 12:38 PM
Pau should actually DEMMAND a trade publicly tough.

No matter where, he can be retraded after the season.

See whos the next scapegoat.

HouRealCoach
12-03-2012, 12:40 PM
In wins Kobe averages 21.6 ppg & 7 assists
In losses Kobe averages 32.3 ppg & 3.4 assists

That's what Kobe needs to realize and quit chucking shots the whole game...

HouRealCoach
12-03-2012, 12:44 PM
One hell of a second option for Shaq huh.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HtbJFEzJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QWdsVQN_BE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

etc..........

Without Kobe Shaq dosent get out the West, so I'd say they needed each other, and Gasol? lol, im not even goona justify that with a response. Gasol is a hell of a player. One of my favorite when he plays the game like he gives a damn, but Kobe needed him as much as Jordan needed pippen or any other great needed that didnt win it alone. Stop trying to distort history.

Then again without Shaq Lakers didn't make it to the playoffs... Why are you so mad that Kobe was a second option?

LAKERMANIA
12-03-2012, 12:46 PM
In wins Kobe averages 21.6 ppg & 7 assists
In losses Kobe averages 32.3 ppg & 3.4 assists

That's what Kobe needs to realize and quit chucking shots the whole game...

Because none of Kobe's passes lead to Dwight getting fouled or someone missing their shots..

mamba24
12-03-2012, 12:54 PM
In wins Kobe averages 21.6 ppg & 7 assists
In losses Kobe averages 32.3 ppg & 3.4 assists

That's what Kobe needs to realize and quit chucking shots the whole game...

people look at these stats and dont realize why/when kobe started "chucking"....... kobe USUALLY starts every game by passing and seeing how the defense plays them. involves everybody. its when they start fouling dwight every play and when teammates dont shoot that kobe is forced into taking more shots. nobody was aggressive outside kobe and dwight last night. dwight unfortunately couldnt hit water if he fell out of a boat. kobe got stuck with a buncha shots with under 7 seconds on the shot clock. not his fault. i wish some people would watch the games before saying kobe is a chucker lol.

that being said... does anybody know how many times pau has been blocked in the paint this year???????? if you dont know that stat then i can see why people are still defending him. pau is SOFT

Jarvo
12-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Hell, I wonder what he say's to Dwight?

JasonJohnHorn
12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
Gasol just needs to ask out no matter where it is to. He gets blamed for everything.

I know... you do so much for an organization, and then a $#!TTY coach comes in, doesn't run plays for you and sits you in the 4th when the guy he's got out there is missing free-throws, and then YOU are to blame for being under .500 and Kobe gotta talk trash after you helped him add two rings to his resume.

FAWK!!! Talk about underappreciated :-(

JiffyMix88
12-03-2012, 01:58 PM
I still don't understand why people think Kobe has only one as the number 2 guy. With Shaq I understand, but never have I seen a good reason why Kobe wasn't the number one when he won with Pau. Only reasons I hear are that Kobe shot a poor percentage and lame reasons like that.

Kobe always been a great player, not sure why you're saying he's a resurrection of his career. Let's not let the hate get to us, you by no means need to like Kobe but you're just making up crap. Even if that's an opinion it has no justification whatsoever.

actually I do have justification, the year before Kobe lost first round, Pau comes to town they're in the finals and the back to back championships they won Pau should have at least won one MVP of the Finals award cause Pau definitely shook off the soft label throughout their two year run

Baller1
12-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Give Pau to OKC then. He's a *****, but he's exactly what OKC needs offensively.

smith&wesson
12-03-2012, 02:33 PM
gasol for bargnani and kleiza.

- lakers get a little younger in this deal

- bargs can spread the floor for howard with his shooting

- bargs would excel in dantoni's system being a big man who can score and run the floor

- howard would hide bargs weekness' in rebounding and help D

- bargs gives the lakers some 3 point shooting that they lack

- bargs is 9 million $$ cheaper then gasol per year and kleiza will be an expiring next season giving them some cap releif.

- kleiza adds depth to the bench and some grit to the 2nd unit as well

naps
12-03-2012, 02:43 PM
lmao! I would pay to see how Kobe reacts if he wasn't allowed to jack up double the shots of the second option on offense. This is 2004 Shaq all over again. Big-man Carries the guard to titles and then gets kicked out. I am sure Dwight has been taking notes before they ask him to sign that extension.

naps
12-03-2012, 02:47 PM
In wins Kobe averages 21.6 ppg & 7 assists
In losses Kobe averages 32.3 ppg & 3.4 assists

That's what Kobe needs to realize and quit chucking shots the whole game...

Exactly. But once a chucker always a chucker. No surprise there.

QueensG_718
12-03-2012, 02:49 PM
I feel bad for pau. This dude gets shitted on publicly by kobe all the time. No wonder shaq didnt get along with kobe. If i was pau i would demand a trade as well in public. He should be tired of this **** already.

Andrew32
12-03-2012, 02:53 PM
What are little boy pants anyway?
I don't want to wear them by mistake.

QueensG_718
12-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Kobe's ego is through th roof

FOBolous
12-03-2012, 02:57 PM
'Antoni handled the "hack-a-Howard" horribly! Phil Jackson would have known how to respond as he had to do it with Shaq all the time.

Gasol should NOT have been sitting on the bench.

And for the record, I don't remember hearing Gasol "whine" about it.

That said, I'm sure if 'Antoni was not running plays for Kobe and started benching him in hte forth quarter, we would hear a LOT of whining from Kobe and 'Antoni would be out of a job fast!

I mean seriously... sorry Pau isn't as much of a diva as you Kobe? Jeez...

how do you "handle" hack-a-howard? by telling the other team to stop doing it? :laugh2: the ONLY ways to avoid that is either...bench d12, keep the ball out of his hands, or tell howard to practice his damn freethrows. it seriously blows my mind how some of these players can't shoot freethrows. it's like the most basic thing in basketball and one of the first things you learn.

FOBolous
12-03-2012, 03:03 PM
but yeea...what a dbag move by kobe to call out his teammate in the public. there's something you keep within the family...this is one of those things.

nickdymez
12-03-2012, 03:07 PM
'Antoni handled the "hack-a-Howard" horribly! Phil Jackson would have known how to respond as he had to do it with Shaq all the time.

Gasol should NOT have been sitting on the bench.

And for the record, I don't remember hearing Gasol "whine" about it.

That said, I'm sure if 'Antoni was not running plays for Kobe and started benching him in hte forth quarter, we would hear a LOT of whining from Kobe and 'Antoni would be out of a job fast!

I mean seriously... sorry Pau isn't as much of a diva as you Kobe? Jeez...

YOU ARE NOT WATCHING THESE GAMES!! :facepalm:

Chronz
12-03-2012, 03:45 PM
it seriously blows my mind how some of these players can't shoot freethrows. it's like the most basic thing in basketball and one of the first things you learn.

Its not that simple

LOOTERX9
12-03-2012, 03:55 PM
Dantoni does these type of things that divides teams. just look at what happened in NY. SMH. Bad hire for L.A

PleaseBeNice
12-03-2012, 03:57 PM
Kobe... attention whore *** hole

Sactown
12-03-2012, 03:59 PM
Honestly probably should have kept this in the locker room, seems like the best thing to do in a struggle is to stick together and not speak to the press about these things. They should look at how Miami handled the media when they were first 8-8

LAKERMANIA
12-03-2012, 04:00 PM
Kobe... attention whore *** hole

Nice nice.

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 04:46 PM
Give Pau to OKC then. He's a *****, but he's exactly what OKC needs offensively.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d4bcjx2

:)

Losoway
12-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Man why is it whenever dtoni goes to a team ...he divides it . He did the same thing with nate robinson smh

DumDum
12-03-2012, 06:34 PM
Kobe is the last guy to be talking about "pants"

AIRMAR72
12-03-2012, 09:03 PM
Tobe CRYant got some nerve to be running his ratface mouth

Spurred1
12-03-2012, 09:37 PM
Who will be blamed for problems when Gasol is gone? There appear to be multiple problems with the Lakers-******** on Gasol doesn't fix any of them considering he's not the sole cause of the problems.

tp13baby
12-03-2012, 09:43 PM
Where are the people saying Kobe wouldn't bash a player like Howard? ahaha
Id take Gasol

beliges
12-04-2012, 12:39 PM
Honestly probably should have kept this in the locker room, seems like the best thing to do in a struggle is to stick together and not speak to the press about these things. They should look at how Miami handled the media when they were first 8-8

This was a pagan taken out of Phil Jackson's book. Pau has been mightily struggling for the past 2 seasons. None more than this year. Sometimes keeping it in house does not work and Phil would've been publicly bashing pau just the same. What Kobe did had to have been done. Lakers need pau mightily right now but he has been just a liability so far. He needs to step it up.

Pluvious
12-04-2012, 01:51 PM
people look at these stats and dont realize why/when kobe started "chucking"....... kobe USUALLY starts every game by passing and seeing how the defense plays them. involves everybody. its when they start fouling dwight every play and when teammates dont shoot that kobe is forced into taking more shots. nobody was aggressive outside kobe and dwight last night. dwight unfortunately couldnt hit water if he fell out of a boat. kobe got stuck with a buncha shots with under 7 seconds on the shot clock. not his fault. i wish some people would watch the games before saying kobe is a chucker lol.

that being said... does anybody know how many times pau has been blocked in the paint this year???????? if you dont know that stat then i can see why people are still defending him. pau is SOFT

Damn, Kobe got stuck having to shoot? :D Anyway, there is truth to what you are saying but its more that Kobe just is not a natural facilitator. When he is making an aggressive move to the basket he looks to shoot and not pass.

That's why people like you say..."guys were just not hitting their shots". Well yeah, but they are not getting wide open looks either. They are not as good as Kobe after all with guys in their face.

P Styles
12-04-2012, 01:58 PM
Its not that simple

Umm.. It's one of the simplest things to ask of from a Professional Basketball Player, no?

ziglur
12-04-2012, 02:07 PM
The Lakers just lost 3 games because Howard cant hit fts and they are complaining about Gasol. Why dont somebody get on him and tell him to put some work in the gym. They have a scapegoat but it wont help . You cant win here missing 15 fts a game.

ziglur
12-04-2012, 02:18 PM
Ole Gasol better put his super sized pants on . He needs to make up for all the fts Howard misses.

whitemamba33
12-04-2012, 02:23 PM
Umm.. It's one of the simplest things to ask of from a Professional Basketball Player, no?

Big men historically have the worst free throw shooting percentages in the league. If it was as simple as putting in some extra time or working on form, don't you think somebody would have figured out by now that they could get an extra 5+ppg by hitting them?

No, it's not that simple.

P Styles
12-04-2012, 02:43 PM
Big men historically have the worst free throw shooting percentages in the league. If it was as simple as putting in some extra time or working on form, don't you think somebody would have figured out by now that they could get an extra 5+ppg by hitting them?

No, it's not that simple.

46% FT shooting is inexcusable. Noone is saying he needs to be Steve Nash from the line, but I don't think it's too much to ask an NBA All Star, First Teamer, to shoot 60-65% from the line.

torocan
12-04-2012, 03:01 PM
Big men historically have the worst free throw shooting percentages in the league. If it was as simple as putting in some extra time or working on form, don't you think somebody would have figured out by now that they could get an extra 5+ppg by hitting them?

No, it's not that simple.

Uh, yah... keep making excuses.

Sure, they DO shoot worse on AVERAGE, but NOT 45%.

Here's a list of PURE Centers (no C/F F/C crossovers) since the advent of the 3 point era who play at least 20 minutes per game and have Started at least 40 games sorted by CAREER FT%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_c=Y&qual=&c1stat=gs&c1comp=gt&c1val=40&c2stat=mp_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=20&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ft_pct

Here's a few spoilers...

Bill Laimbeer - 83.7%
Yao Ming - 83.3%
Brad Miller - 80.4%
Brook Lopez - 78.9%
Bill Cartwright - 77.1%
Luc Longley - 76.0%
Al Horford - 75.0%
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 74.3%

If we allowed C/F and F/C crossovers, that list would be even Larger with higher FT%.

FT's are 100% about form and practice. If Dwight thought it was important, he would be making them.

Omer Asik has increased his FT% from 45.6% to 58.3% from last season. He has said he diligently worked on them in the Off Season, and has been practicing them before and after games and practices.

And among CURRENT Centers? Doing a search based upon the 2012/13 season who played at least 10 games and 15 minutes per game, Dwight is the 4th worst in the NBA by FT%.

http://www.hoopdata.com/regstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=C&yr=2013&gp=10&mins=15

The best?

Marc Gasol with 89.7%

Oh, and shooting 70.0% at the FT line would only rank you 18th in the NBA as Centers go.

Dwight sucks at FT's because he doesn't care enough to get BETTER at them.

ee
12-04-2012, 03:05 PM
Pau has every right to whine, he's being asked to be a stretch 4 which he isn't.... He can hit some 3's but but not consistently..... Pau needs to go....

Chronz
12-04-2012, 03:23 PM
Umm.. It's one of the simplest things to ask of from a Professional Basketball Player, no?
I think I've made my opinion on this matter known. Its not as simple as you think. There are lots of dynamics at play aside from effort/practice at this point in their careers.

KB-Pau-DH2012
12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
Pau has tendinitis in his knees, he'll be sitting out a few games. Let's just patiently wait and see what happens.

nickdymez
12-04-2012, 03:26 PM
Pau has every right to whine, he's being asked to be a stretch 4 which he isn't.... He can hit some 3's but but not consistently..... Pau needs to go....

I've seen Pau hit maybe 2 three's.

kingsdelez24
12-04-2012, 03:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgi3HS0uczk

Lol am I the only on who thought of this?

P Styles
12-04-2012, 03:45 PM
I think I've made my opinion on this matter known. Its not as simple as you think. There are lots of dynamics at play aside from effort/practice at this point in their careers.

And I disagree. If we were talking about something that had more variables involved then I could see your point, but a free throw is a free throw. Same shot from the same spot every time. Different rims/crowds are the only factor.

Anyone truly dedicated and putting in enough practice should be able to get down the muscle memory and achieve better than 45% from the line.

If I was making $20m a year, on a national stage, and costing my team games from my lack of ability to hit free throws, I would lock myself in the gym everyday and work on them for hours.

I'd love to know how much time and effort Dwight is putting into his free throw shooting, as well as the coaches he's working with and changes he's making to improve.

P Styles
12-04-2012, 03:51 PM
I think I've made my opinion on this matter known. Its not as simple as you think. There are lots of dynamics at play aside from effort/practice at this point in their careers.

http://weaksideawareness.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/nba-players-with-mid-career-improvement-in-ft/

Here ya go hot shot. And LOL @ accepting 46% from the line and stating that even mediocrity isn't simple enough for a NBA First Teamer to achieve at the line.

lpdunks8
12-04-2012, 04:18 PM
For those talking about Howard needing to practice his FTs; the Lakers have a big chart at the training facility showing his practice numbers from training camp up until now. He is shooting about 80%.

His practice shooting is above center average; something is happening in the games.

DumDum
12-04-2012, 08:24 PM
:clap::clap:
Nice nice.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 08:45 PM
And I disagree.
Yes that was clear from your post. Agree to disagree


If we were talking about something that had more variables involved then I could see your point, but a free throw is a free throw. Same shot from the same spot every time. Different rims/crowds are the only factor.
Fatigue, hand size, hand eye coordination and playstyle play a role. And I have a theory that most of what you are as a player is fundamentally drilled into you at a young age. From day 1 the power game was drilled into Shaq. Because its more natural for shooters with a deft touch from distance to be better at shooting free throws, I have to imagine any time spent working on his range would come at the expense of his spatial understanding in the pivot. Its not simply about effort, guys like Wilt and Russell put in their due diligence and didnt see results, in fact Wilt tried so many different styles his shooting actually worsened.

I mean if your putting in the work and your actually getting worse, what else could it be playing a role? Seriously, maybe its time to think outside this rigid box, life is full of variables.



Anyone truly dedicated and putting in enough practice should be able to get down the muscle memory and achieve better than 45% from the line.
I just dont buy that argument, seen too many examples from NBA history to believe its that simple.


If I was making $20m a year, on a national stage, and costing my team games from my lack of ability to hit free throws, I would lock myself in the gym everyday and work on them for hours.
And what if you got worse? Would you still think your not putting in enough work?

If you think its as easy as simply putting in work then you dont know your history. Nuff said.


I'd love to know how much time and effort Dwight is putting into his free throw shooting, as well as the coaches he's working with and changes he's making to improve.
If its anything like Shaq-Wilt-Russell then Im sure hes putting in plenty of work and possibly getting great results in practice. Game time is different tho, thats when your instincts ingrained from your child hood kick in.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 08:48 PM
http://weaksideawareness.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/nba-players-with-mid-career-improvement-in-ft/

Here ya go hot shot. And LOL @ accepting 46% from the line and stating that even mediocrity isn't simple enough for a NBA First Teamer to achieve at the line.
Not really sure what your trying to get at here. Did you assume I meant nobody ever improved from the FT line? I simply said its not as simple as you guys want it to be. Its not always about effort and practice.

And its pretty telling that the list is mostly comprised of bigmen. I think hand size and playing style alter free throw success.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 08:56 PM
For those talking about Howard needing to practice his FTs; the Lakers have a big chart at the training facility showing his practice numbers from training camp up until now. He is shooting about 80%.

His practice shooting is above center average; something is happening in the games.

Physical play style and fatigue. Lots of players put in the effort but dont get the results. Hand size, hand eye coordination play a role as well. Its not impossible to get better but its harder for certain people in spite of the effort they put in.

Dwight has been working on his FT for years, his shooting coach in Orlando was so impressed one off season that he was predicting 65-70% shooting IIRC.

For people to think its simply about effort shows a true lack of understanding for NBA history. Unless we want to start calling Bill Russell a slacker. Or Wilt an idiot for trying so many different techniques instead of trying to stick with 1 way. Effort can sometimes be a detriment to a players game if he focuses too strongly on a weakness while ignoring his strengths.

D-Leethal
12-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Not really sure what your trying to get at here. Did you assume I meant nobody ever improved from the FT line? I simply said its not as simple as you guys want it to be. Its not always about effort and practice.

And its pretty telling that the list is mostly comprised of bigmen. I think hand size and playing style alter free throw success.

I agree. Just picture shooting free throws with a softball. Thats pretty close to what its like for a guy like Shaq or Dwight to shoot with a basketball. Obviously not the same proportions but it gives you an idea that its tougher to shoot the bigger your hands our.

D-Leethal
12-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Not really sure what your trying to get at here. Did you assume I meant nobody ever improved from the FT line? I simply said its not as simple as you guys want it to be. Its not always about effort and practice.

And its pretty telling that the list is mostly comprised of bigmen. I think hand size and playing style alter free throw success.

I agree. Just picture shooting free throws with a softball. Thats pretty close to what its like for a guy like Shaq or Dwight to shoot with a basketball. Obviously not the same proportions but it gives you an idea that its tougher to shoot the bigger your hands are.

I also agree what you were saying about childhood instincts, and when your in the heat of battle those instincts are what you survive with on the basketball court. Dwight can hit free throws all he wants in the safety net of a practice facility with his shooting coach but in the heat of battle its not the same thing and those FT's you hit in practice go out the window.

D-Leethal
12-04-2012, 09:09 PM
Too many keyboard heroes think its all about effort and all you need to do is practice harder. Same goes for guys with defense. I can't help but laugh when I hear 'defense is all effort'. Defense is just as much a fine tuned skill as anything else in basketball, including FT shooting.

Hellcrooner
12-05-2012, 12:49 AM
So.

Where are your big boy pants Kobe?

LAKERMANIA
12-05-2012, 12:55 AM
So.

Where are your big boy pants Kobe?

:laugh2:


hellcrooner already making excuses in preparation for pau's absence before the game.

If lakers lose w/out Pau, he'll say "See guyssss!!! I told you we need Pau. He wasn't even the problem, i told you guythhh".

If lakers win w/out Pau, he's already made it clear to us that "Lakers should win anyway, rockets are horrible".

Keep in mind that the Rockets beat the Knicks, a very tough team this year. All it takes is for Harden and co. to have a great shooting night and we all know sub-par teams bring their A-game against the lakers. Anything can happen tonight, but Pau is still a problem. Sorry hellcrooner, nice try though.

SteBO
12-05-2012, 11:13 AM
Too many keyboard heroes think its all about effort and all you need to do is practice harder. Same goes for guys with defense. I can't help but laugh when I hear 'defense is all effort'. Defense is just as much a fine tuned skill as anything else in basketball, including FT shooting.
Yes, it's a skill in some ways but it also requires more effort and energy than arguably any other aspect in basketball. Unless you're physically unable to, there's no reason why players as built and in-shape as these guys are can't move their feet and try to keep their man in front of them. By even competing on the defensive end can make a BIG difference...

SouthSideRookie
12-05-2012, 12:30 PM
So.

Where are your big boy pants Kobe?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/lTeZ6elLcow

Chronz
12-05-2012, 01:52 PM
I agree. Just picture shooting free throws with a softball. Thats pretty close to what its like for a guy like Shaq or Dwight to shoot with a basketball. Obviously not the same proportions but it gives you an idea that its tougher to shoot the bigger your hands are.
Agreed, in Shaq's case I hear he also had a childhood injury that prevents him from fully extending on the release. I think that was Shaq, anyways its possible for players with big hands to become good shooters but I definitely think its harder for them to improve, particularly if they are bigmen whos entire game is predicated on the power game.


I also agree what you were saying about childhood instincts, and when your in the heat of battle those instincts are what you survive with on the basketball court. Dwight can hit free throws all he wants in the safety net of a practice facility with his shooting coach but in the heat of battle its not the same thing and those FT's you hit in practice go out the window.
IIRC, I remember hearing something from McHale that having a soft touch around the rim was something he had from childhood, I think he was talking about Al Jefferson having that same feel for the rim. That all his post moves were predicated on that touch.

So sure you can work on your post moves and all that but that soft touch is something thats best ingrained during your youth when your balance/hand eye coordination is still developing itself.

I feel the same when it comes to any skill in the NBA. Like Charles says, you should basically be the player your going to be by like 22 or so with subtle improvements thereafter. Its not an exact science but I do believe there is some truth to what hes trying to convey.

Chronz
12-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Too many keyboard heroes think its all about effort and all you need to do is practice harder. Same goes for guys with defense. I can't help but laugh when I hear 'defense is all effort'. Defense is just as much a fine tuned skill as anything else in basketball, including FT shooting.
Agreed, effort should, in theory at least, help anyone in everything but to act like that is by default the missing ingredient in anything is comical.

And people say I need to get off my high horse, keyboard heroes indeed, as if anyone knows the kind of work Dwight puts in. How do we know hes not trying? Seems like every year I hear about him trying to improve his FT shooting, yet hes gotten worse over the years. Something doesnt add up here.

ewing
12-05-2012, 01:57 PM
For those talking about Howard needing to practice his FTs; the Lakers have a big chart at the training facility showing his practice numbers from training camp up until now. He is shooting about 80%.

His practice shooting is above center average; something is happening in the games.

My guess is the difference is he has to run and play a game in between free throws during a game plus they count

ewing
12-05-2012, 02:01 PM
Anyone know if Dwight has ever considered shooting foul shots underhanded? If he hasn't i can see a legitimate criticism of the effort he has made to improve from the line

Chronz
12-05-2012, 02:08 PM
Anyone know if Dwight has ever considered shooting foul shots underhanded? If he hasn't i can see a legitimate criticism of the effort he has made to improve from the line
Good point.

I would imagine thats the easiest way to shoot free throws if your a big but nobody wants to look foolish. I dont find anything wrong with granny style shots but these athletes do.

Right or wrong, it will never happen, if Dwight shoots only a tad better I think he would rather keep at it than embarrass himself for the sake of a few percentage points. If its a night and day difference in practice (which I doubt because hes shooting a high% in practice) then he should suck it up.

Still wouldnt it be easier to make granny shots during mental/physical fatigue? Seems like less load on your arms and less muscle memory involved so you dont have to completely rework your shooting mechanics.