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sacgiants1213
12-03-2012, 01:42 AM
Monday, December 3rd


http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/GatorHunter1971/NBA%20Signature%20Logos/TrailBlazers1.png___http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/GatorHunter1971/NBA%20Signature%20Logos/Bobcats1.png

Time Warner Cable Arena, Charlotte
Time: 7:00 PM ET



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Location: The Palace, Auburn Hills
Time: 7:30 PM ET



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Location: New Orleans Arena, New Orleans
Time: 8:00 PM ET



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Location: Pepsi Center, Denver
Time: 9:00 PM ET



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Location: EnergySolutions Arena, Salt Lake City
Time: 9:00 PM ET



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Location: Oracle Arena, Oakland
Time: 10:30 PM ET

JNoel
12-03-2012, 01:43 AM
**** it, Heat don't play today.

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 01:44 AM
Blazers will be too easy! Lets go!

JNoel
12-03-2012, 01:48 AM
Blazers will be too easy! Lets go!

Lmfao, your a legend.

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 01:50 AM
Lmfao, your a legend.

You just noticed? :cool:

JNoel
12-03-2012, 01:55 AM
You just noticed? :cool:

Hey now, I don't give that tag out easily. ;)

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 01:55 AM
Hey now, I don't give that tag out easily. ;)

:)

b@llhog24
12-03-2012, 02:45 AM
Blazers will be too easy! Lets go!

:drool:

Ebbs
12-03-2012, 05:31 AM
Por
det
mlw
den
lac
gsw
okc

shep33
12-03-2012, 05:32 AM
Clips vs. Jazz looks like the best one out there

chrisf975
12-03-2012, 09:21 AM
Por
det
mlw
den
lac
gsw
okc

okc?

chrisf975
12-03-2012, 09:22 AM
Not sure why the Bucks Hornets game is on nba tv. I wish it was the clippers game.

kdspurman
12-03-2012, 01:36 PM
Blazers will be too easy! Lets go!

:laugh2: Go get em!

Chavacano
12-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Blazers @ Cats
Cavs @ Pistons
Bucks @ Hornets
Raptors @ Nuggets
Clippers @ Jazz
Magic @ Warriors

NYMetros
12-03-2012, 03:59 PM
Blazers @ Bobcats
Cavs @ Pistons
Bucks @ Hornets
Raptors @ Nuggets
Clippers @ Jazz
Magic @ Warriors

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 05:10 PM
:laugh2: Go get em!

****, I should've chosen the spurs as my new team! :mad:

Baller1
12-03-2012, 05:20 PM
Por
det
mlw
den
lac
gsw
okc

I know OKC has been good, but now they win on nights they don't even play? :cool:

kdspurman
12-03-2012, 05:22 PM
****, I should've chosen the spurs as my new team! :mad:

Na, trust me. We're the bad guys, and a poison to the league, while not caring about the fans in the process :)

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Na, trust me. We're the bad guys, and a poison to the league, while not caring about the fans in the process :)

I'd take that any day of the week. Gasol for Popovic. I think it works on ESPN Trade Machine. Gasol+Duncan :drool:

Popovic on the lakers :drool:

kdspurman
12-03-2012, 05:28 PM
I'd take that any day of the week. Gasol for Popovic. I think it works on ESPN Trade Machine. Gasol+Duncan :drool:

Popovic on the lakers :drool:

Ha.. That would probably be the worst thing that could happen from a Spurs fan's eyes. But for the Lakers... Would be nuts, and mean #5 for TD and #6 for Kobe.

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Ha.. That would probably be the worst thing that could happen from a Spurs fan's eyes. But for the Lakers... Would be nuts, and mean #5 for TD and #6 for Kobe.

I love pipe dreams.

BTW bad *** sig haha.

kdspurman
12-03-2012, 05:45 PM
I love pipe dreams.

BTW bad *** sig haha.

Thanks :D

dnewguy
12-03-2012, 05:54 PM
What a terrible day in Basketball history, no match-up is worth watching.

Baller1
12-03-2012, 08:16 PM
Gambling can make any matchup worth watching. Got a parlay on Denver, LAC, and Golden State.

black1605
12-03-2012, 08:21 PM
Monster dunk by Mullens.

Ebbs
12-03-2012, 08:51 PM
Gambling can make any matchup worth watching. Got a parlay on Denver, LAC, and Golden State.

100% I buy tickets everyday lol.

This props game is fun too. You guess who scores more points between 2 players every night.

K anyone else off the Lamarcus as a franchise player ride? There is no way Portland should be this bad. Granted they have no bench but Batum and Lillard are playing above expecatations and Wes/Hickson are holding down their roles. Not sure what he needs maybe some motivation but he isn't someone I'd give the key to the city.

He is 100% Bosh 2.0 needs to be that 2nd option.

black1605
12-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Kemba making an effort to win line of the night. At half time:

17 points on 7/9 shooting
5 assists
3 rebounds
2 steals

Keep it up.

Ebbs
12-03-2012, 09:18 PM
Kemba making an effort to win line of the night. At half time:

17 points on 7/9 shooting
5 assists
3 rebounds
2 steals

Keep it up.

He is rising up my favorite player charts for sure. He is bringing back the gameflow/leadership that made him exciting at UCONN.

thekmp211
12-03-2012, 10:00 PM
love kemba. but now ben gordon is just lighting portland up from 3. damn.

Ebbs
12-03-2012, 10:03 PM
Portland getting a beat down really?

black1605
12-03-2012, 10:05 PM
Gordon on fire. 6/8 from 3.

Does anyone still want to say Detroit won that trade? Ben Gordon and a first round pick is looking pretty great so far.

Ebbs
12-03-2012, 10:12 PM
Gordon has always been a lights out shooter when he turns it on he turns it on.

thekmp211
12-03-2012, 10:19 PM
aaand its a 4 point game. cmon bobcats.

black1605
12-03-2012, 10:20 PM
Pretty ridiculous meltdown.

Gordon 3 puts him over 10,000.

black1605
12-03-2012, 10:23 PM
Total meltdown. Tie game, Bobcats get last possession
.

thekmp211
12-03-2012, 10:23 PM
luke babbit?!

black1605
12-03-2012, 10:25 PM
Overtime. I am speechless. Portland closes the quarter on a 23-5 run.

thekmp211
12-03-2012, 10:27 PM
Overtime. I am speechless. Portland closes the quarter on a 23-5 run.

cats are a young team that needs to learn how to close on both ends. defense and rebounding collapsed in that quarter.

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-03-2012, 10:36 PM
wow.. good game going on in charlotte.

b@llhog24
12-03-2012, 10:36 PM
100% I buy tickets everyday lol.

This props game is fun too. You guess who scores more points between 2 players every night.

K anyone else off the Lamarcus as a franchise player ride? There is no way Portland should be this bad. Granted they have no bench but Batum and Lillard are playing above expecatations and Wes/Hickson are holding down their roles. Not sure what he needs maybe some motivation but he isn't someone I'd give the key to the city.

He is 100% Bosh 2.0 needs to be that 2nd option.

Except for the fact that he's coming off of an injury.

black1605
12-03-2012, 10:38 PM
What a choke job.

b@llhog24
12-03-2012, 10:43 PM
Game.

RipCity32
12-03-2012, 11:00 PM
Man if only Drummond was starting he would be in the running for ROY.

Lakers + Giants
12-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Stupid Blazers :(

Clippersfan86
12-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Start Bledsoe, bring CP3 off the bench. Sick of his confused looking, lazy fu**ing *** lately.

Gators123
12-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Man if only Drummond was starting he would be in the running for ROY.

:nod:

7 points 12 rebounds (9 offensive!) 3 blocks in 19 minutes tonight.

thekmp211
12-03-2012, 11:07 PM
larry sanders with 7 more blocks tonight.

thanks, signed my fantasy team.

Cracka2HI!
12-03-2012, 11:31 PM
Al Jefferson with 2 nice blocks. Jazz looking great against my Clipps.

Clippersfan86
12-03-2012, 11:40 PM
Hey Chronz start making excuses for CP3 again and why the offense shouldn't run through Blake. Blake is the ONLY reason this team isn't down 30. Team feeding him early in the shotclock and the result is 26 points right now before the 4th quarter. Looks like me 1 you 0 on this debate bud and yet again CP3 vanishing and looking like a low impact scrub today while Bledsoe outplays him in in 1/5th of the minutes.

Longhornfan1234
12-03-2012, 11:41 PM
Hey Chronz start making excuses for CP3 again and why the offense shouldn't run through Blake. Blake is the ONLY reason this team isn't down 30. Team feeding him early in the shotclock and the result is 26 points right now before the 4th quarter. Looks like me 1 you 0 on this debate bud and yet again CP3 vanishing and looking like a low impact scrub today while Bledsoe outplays him in in 1/5th of the minutes.

Trade CP3 for Rondo.

Clippersfan86
12-03-2012, 11:47 PM
Bledsoe comes in.... gets a 3rd offensive rebound and finish at the rim. CP3 should be the one coming off the bench LMAO.

kylem4711
12-03-2012, 11:51 PM
Hey Chronz start making excuses for CP3 again and why the offense shouldn't run through Blake. Blake is the ONLY reason this team isn't down 30. Team feeding him early in the shotclock and the result is 26 points right now before the 4th quarter. Looks like me 1 you 0 on this debate bud and yet again CP3 vanishing and looking like a low impact scrub today while Bledsoe outplays him in in 1/5th of the minutes.

:facepalm:

again psd, any comment by clippersfan86 does not reflect the clippers organization or clipper fans.

Cracka2HI!
12-03-2012, 11:52 PM
:facepalm:

again psd, any comment by clippersfan86 does not reflect the clippers organization or clipper fans.
I have to back that. I tried to back the guy up but it's not worth it. We aren't even having a bad game. The Jazz are playing great right now. Hey CF86, you think the Jazz shooting 61% could have more to do with us losing than CP3 :facepalm:

Cracka2HI!
12-03-2012, 11:54 PM
Bledsoe is in beast mode tonight tho. As I type this he misses a FT LOL.

kylem4711
12-03-2012, 11:57 PM
1 point game. i gotta gut feeling a barnes tech is coming soon

Cracka2HI!
12-03-2012, 11:59 PM
Odom slowly rounding into shape...literally.

Haha just realized I was way behind LOL!

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:01 AM
How about you guys wake up? Seriously... you don't think the Jazz getting wide open shot after wide open shot has anything to do with our D? Yes it's just the Jazz playing great. CP3, Billups and Crawford have been giving up wide open 3's all night getting torched off screens.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:01 AM
Hey Chronz start making excuses for CP3 again and why the offense shouldn't run through Blake. Blake is the ONLY reason this team isn't down 30. Team feeding him early in the shotclock and the result is 26 points right now before the 4th quarter. Looks like me 1 you 0 on this debate bud and yet again CP3 vanishing and looking like a low impact scrub today while Bledsoe outplays him in in 1/5th of the minutes.

LOL how can it be 1-0 if you never respond to anything? LMFAO you have to call my name in a thread I wasnt even in? Why not post in the actual debate thread?

LMFAO at you thinking I want Blake to be playing as poorly as he has all year.

thekmp211
12-04-2012, 12:01 AM
not sure how the clippers caught up in this one

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
Bledsoe comes in.... gets a 3rd offensive rebound and finish at the rim. CP3 should be the one coming off the bench LMAO.

Sig worthy?

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
This has been a great basketball game! Hopefully the Clipps pull it out!

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:05 AM
Sig worthy?

Absolutely!

kylem4711
12-04-2012, 12:05 AM
How about you guys wake up? Seriously... you don't think the Jazz getting wide open shot after wide open shot has anything to do with our D? Yes it's just the Jazz playing great. CP3, Billups and Crawford have been giving up wide open 3's all night getting torched off screens.

oh for sure, it's everyone else that needs to wake up. how do you not get that everyone just thinks you are an idiot? Every time you start a new thread or respond to someone, the only thing that happens is people roll their eyes and say, not this guy again...

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:08 AM
I usually hold back when debating amongst my Clipper brethren but Im done with this guy. His argument about Rondo and the Celtics offense should have done it for me but he showed some respect when he was cornered, now he wants to gloat as if this game is suppose to exonerate Blake of subpar play all year.

Hes a VERY emotional fan, he gets caught up in the moment and loses sight of the complete picture.

kylem4711
12-04-2012, 12:09 AM
billups, so clutch

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:10 AM
This has been the most fun game to watch of the year. Great game!!

tredigs
12-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Damn Chauncey just sold a 3pt flop HARD down 1 with a minute to go.

That'll be fine #2 for flopping this year. Missed the last ft tho.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:11 AM
CP3 doing what he do!!

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:12 AM
Mr 4th quarter? Hello there again

dhopisthename
12-04-2012, 12:12 AM
Damn Chauncey just sold a 3pt flop HARD down 1 with a minute to go.

That'll be fine #2 for flopping this year. Missed the last ft tho.

he didn't even touch him. huge call

kylem4711
12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
DJ earning that money!

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
Blouses

tredigs
12-04-2012, 12:15 AM
Big time by Deandre there. And Cp3 is so fun to watch in the 4th quarter. I wish he treated more of the game like it.

tredigs
12-04-2012, 12:16 AM
The flop by Chauncey will prove to be worth the fine. Got 'em the W.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Matt Barnes finally pays off in the 4th quarter!!

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:17 AM
DJ redeems himself for sure.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:18 AM
Yes i'm the delusional one for stating the obvious that CP3 sucked tonight. I mean the guy got outplayed by fu**ing Mo Williams of all people LMAO.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:18 AM
Big time by Deandre there. And Cp3 is so fun to watch in the 4th quarter. I wish he treated more of the game like it.

I have mixed feelings on this, on one hand I like that hes pacing himself after last seasons bounce back season. But with Blake playing so horribly we could have used him calling his own number more often than deferring to the likes of Butler and Crawford or creating for Willie Green.

I would rather he be healthy than get us a high seed

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:20 AM
Yes i'm the delusional one for stating the obvious that CP3 sucked tonight. I mean the guy got outplayed by fu**ing Mo Williams of all people LMAO.

Yea thats ALL youve said

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:21 AM
Getting Chippy down to the wire. DJ showing some toughness!

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:21 AM
Lol refs....

tredigs
12-04-2012, 12:22 AM
I have mixed feelings on this, on one hand I like that hes pacing himself after last seasons bounce back season. But with Blake playing so horribly we could have used him calling his own number more often than deferring to the likes of Butler and Crawford or creating for Willie Green.

I would rather he be healthy than get us a high seed

I know it's not preferential for him to try to go beast all game throughout the season (both to get the guys involved/happy and to save himself), but it is ultra rare for him to truly turn it on before the 4th. He still plays very good to elite, but his 6th gear is so rare (meaning that level of skill/poise/bbiq) that from a purely selfish perspective I'd like to see it tapped into more often.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:22 AM
And whats with the "of all people" talk? Didnt you see Mo have great games with us last year? Hes clearly capable of having solid outings, why your using that as some sort of trump card proves how lil you know about the NBA outside of LAC

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:22 AM
Yea thats ALL youve said

Bledsoe should have played WAY more than he did with the way CP3 played. I understand putting CP3 in the last 3-4 minutes of games but playing him the entire 3rd and 9 or 10 minutes of the 4th when Bledsoe was outplaying him? Joke.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:23 AM
And whats with the "of all people" talk? Didnt you see Mo have great games with us last year? Hes clearly capable of having solid outings, why your using that as some sort of trump card proves how lil you know about the NBA outside of LAC

Mo is a good player but it's a joke for you to defend CP3 again and again when a tier 3 PG like Mo busts his *** like this. Mo freaking dropped 20 and 11 on CP3. Not acceptable and it was his best game of the year with the 1st defensive team PG guarding him. :facepalm:

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:25 AM
More proof of CN86 clear agenda. He says CP3 plays like a scrub and makes no mention of his clutch contributions. On the other hand he says DJ redeems himself with a single block in the clutch....


Bledsoe should have played WAY more than he did with the way CP3 played. I understand putting CP3 in the last 3-4 minutes of games but playing him the entire 3rd and 9 or 10 minutes of the 4th when Bledsoe was outplaying him? Joke.

Dont care about your strategy bro thats not what my post was about but if you wish to discuss it, how do you know when the superior player is going to start playing like it? Its CP3 not Mo.

dwilly4rilly
12-04-2012, 12:26 AM
Absolute ********, gamechanging flop by Billups. I can't believe the ref bought it.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:26 AM
That was really the only way this game could have ended. What a game! It's a lot better that we won, but I would have enjoyed that game even with a loss...unless it was a playoff game.

kylem4711
12-04-2012, 12:26 AM
man, CF86 is such a joke

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:27 AM
More proof of CN86 clear agenda. He says CP3 plays like a scrub and makes no mention of his clutch contributions. On the other hand he says DJ redeems himself with a single block in the clutch....



Dont care about your strategy bro thats not what my post was about but if you wish to discuss it, how do you know when the superior player is going to start playing like it? Its CP3 not Mo.

Is it a surprise that I expect WAY more of CP3 than DJ? Do you not? CP3 definitely stepped up in the late 4th with a huge clutch plays but he was the main reason we got in that whole to begin with by constantly leaving the man he was guarding open for wide open 3's and getting burned left and right on screens. Bricking shot after shot and racking up 3 turnovers in a 2 minute span.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:28 AM
Mo is a good player but it's a joke for you to defend CP3 again and again when a tier 3 PG like Mo busts his *** like this. Mo freaking dropped 20 and 11 on CP3. Not acceptable and it was his best game of the year with the 1st defensive team PG guarding him. :facepalm:
LMFAO no its a joke for you to ignore the reality that Mo has outplayed CP3 while both were teammates. And no, he dropped whatever numbers he did on the CLIPPERS.

Ive already seen your type of lazy analysis so forgive me for not putting much stock into your flawed perceptions of the game.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:29 AM
man, CF86 is such a joke

Yet none of you guys have proven anything wrong I've said in regards to this. CP3 is playing very subpar this year and denying it doesn't do anything. Protect him all you want because his stats look acceptable but he's been very unreliable and had moments of vanishing at times which I don't remember happening a single time last year.

Baller1
12-04-2012, 12:31 AM
**** the Jazz and **** the Clippers. HARD.

Cost me money for the garbage time three.

shep33
12-04-2012, 12:31 AM
That flop was absolutely brutal. Wow. Shame on you Mr. Billups

b@llhog24
12-04-2012, 12:31 AM
:jumpy:

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:31 AM
Is it a surprise that I expect WAY more of CP3 than DJ? Do you not?
You dont allow expectations to distort reality. CP3 did NOT play like a scrub and if DJ redeems his awful night with a single block then CP3 should get the same treatment for doing even more.

Its this simple, both played beneath their expected/average level of play.


CP3 definitely stepped up in the late 4th with a huge clutch plays but he was the main reason we got in that whole to begin with by constantly leaving the man he was guarding open for wide open 3's and getting burned left and right on screens. Bricking shot after shot and racking up 3 turnovers in a 2 minute span.
Maybe, Ill do a possession breakdown later but why arent you mentioning DJ at all here? See what I mean about your bias. I know how CP3 played, I also know how DJ played, CP3 played better and if anyone played like a scrub it was DJ.

shep33
12-04-2012, 12:32 AM
Orlando is impressive right now. Up on the Warriors after clobbering us yesterday.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:32 AM
You like stats so much so How about Synergy having Chris as a bottom half of the league defender? I mean "no defense" Griffin has already surpassed Paul defensively this year after CP3 was playing superb D last year. Keep up the denial though, it doesn't change the result. Non Clippers fans have been talking about it all season and they don't have a bias I supposedly have.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:32 AM
Yet none of you guys have proven anything wrong I've said in regards to this. CP3 is playing very subpar this year and denying it doesn't do anything. Protect him all you want because his stats look acceptable but he's been very unreliable and had moments of vanishing at times which I don't remember happening a single time last year.
If that were true then you wouldnt have cowered away from our arguments. Your comment on Rondo will forever be damning testimony to your lack of basketball IQ.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:34 AM
You dont allow expectations to distort reality. CP3 did NOT play like a scrub and if DJ redeems his awful night with a single block then CP3 should get the same treatment for doing even more.

Its this simple, both played beneath their expected/average level of play.


Maybe, Ill do a possession breakdown later but why arent you mentioning DJ at all here? See what I mean about your bias. I know how CP3 played, I also know how DJ played, CP3 played better and if anyone played like a scrub it was DJ.

Butler, DJ and CP3 all deserve to be blasted. Reason I'm locking in on CP3 is because like I said my standards and expectations for him are sky high (should be for a top 5 player and superstar). I'll happily talk about how DJ is jumping around like a ******* every time instead of staying down on D. Or how Butler bricks shot after shot and can't guard anybody anymore. Or how Billups was falling all over the place tonight looking like a 45 year old.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:35 AM
You like stats so much so How about Synergy having Chris as a bottom half of the league defender? I mean "no defense" Griffin has already surpassed Paul defensively this year after CP3 was playing superb D last year. Keep up the denial though, it doesn't change the result. Non Clippers fans have been talking about it all season and they don't have a bias I supposedly have.
LOL so when you mention synergy you want me to assess the numbers but when I cite synergy you say you respect and understand my point but then go on to call me out in another thread?


LOL come at me when you actually learn the game and its numbers

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:35 AM
If that were true then you wouldnt have cowered away from our arguments. Your comment on Rondo will forever be damning testimony to your lack of basketball IQ.

Sorry but I've seen your 20 paragraph debates that go on hours in circles and I didn't feel the need to get involved. Sometimes it's just easier to agree to disagree, has nothing to do with cowering :facepalm:.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:37 AM
Butler, DJ and CP3 all deserve to be blasted. Reason I'm locking in on CP3 is because like I said my standards and expectations for him are sky high (should be for a top 5 player and superstar). I'll happily talk about how DJ is jumping around like a ******* every time instead of staying down on D. Or how Butler bricks shot after shot and can't guard anybody anymore. Or how Billups was falling all over the place tonight looking like a 45 year old.
All deserve to be blasted, the point Im making is that if DJ redeemed himself then CP3 went above and beyond that and thus also redeemed himself. THATS IT

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:38 AM
LOL so when you mention synergy you want me to assess the numbers but when I cite synergy you say you respect and understand my point but then go on to call me out in another thread?


LOL come at me when you actually learn the game and its numbers

In regards to CP3 vs Rondo... Rondo easily won defensively last year and you conceded that so not much more to say. I did give props because you had a well written post that I respected :confused:. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be called out in relation to CP3's impact/performance this year when you so mercilessly defend him with stats.

How about you stop reading stats and watch these games with the same intensity you look at the stats? Anybody with eyes can see how CP3's been disappointing this year and how he's been disappearing for long stretches. I have every right to be troubled and criticize this because I want the team to win as a fan.

Just admit it straight up, CP3 has been disappointing this year so far. He's hit maybe 1 or 2 clutch shots (tonight and SA game) and bricked a ton. He's played crap D and his efficiency and scoring is down all around.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:38 AM
I just want to say CF86 is free to think whatever he wants, but it's going to fun to see Chronz prove him wrong on everything!

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:39 AM
All deserve to be blasted, the point Im making is that if DJ redeemed himself then CP3 went above and beyond that and thus also redeemed himself. THATS IT

I expect nothing out of DJ besides protecting the rim and rebounding. He failed at both today but that block literally saved the game and again... DJ can play bad and we can still win easily. Same can't be said about Paul.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:39 AM
Sorry but I've seen your 20 paragraph debates that go on hours in circles and I didn't feel the need to get involved. Sometimes it's just easier to agree to disagree, has nothing to do with cowering :facepalm:.
And Ive seen your lazy analysis/lies, its outright destroyed with quantifiable truths. Sorry but if you want to agree to disagree you cant later on go on and claim victory. THATS THE POINT.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:40 AM
And Ive seen your lazy analysis/lies, its outright destroyed with quantifiable truths. Sorry but if you want to agree to disagree you cant later on go on and claim victory. THATS THE POINT.

Like I said if you can't say CP3 has been a disappointment this year and has played poor by his standards then you destroy yourself with lies, not me.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:41 AM
I expect nothing out of DJ besides protecting the rim and rebounding. He failed at both today but that block literally saved the game and again... DJ can play bad and we can still win easily. Same can't be said about Paul.
Then your displaying your bias, DJ has shown an enhanced skillset, to say he can be a net negative overall so long as he does things we should be above expecting proves your allegiance to the incumbents we have

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Like I said if you can't say CP3 has been a disappointment this year and has played poor by his standards then you destroy yourself with lies, not me.

LMFAO show me a single instance of me saying CP3 has played better than he did last year.


Yet ANOTHER example of your strawman arguments.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Butler, DJ and CP3 all deserve to be blasted. Reason I'm locking in on CP3 is because like I said my standards and expectations for him are sky high (should be for a top 5 player and superstar). I'll happily talk about how DJ is jumping around like a ******* every time instead of staying down on D. Or how Butler bricks shot after shot and can't guard anybody anymore. Or how Billups was falling all over the place tonight looking like a 45 year old.

Uhhh, "we" won. No one should get blasted. I'll bet the team is celebrating their toughest win of the season in fact. Everyone's going to Lamar's to spark up!

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:44 AM
LMFAO show me a single instance of me saying CP3 has played better than he did last year.


Yet ANOTHER example of your strawman arguments.

You accuse me of ignoring things yet you keep dancing around my point. It's obvious CP3 isn't playing as well as last year but he's played POOR for long stretches and 30 percent of the games this year and you haven't flat out called it like it is.

Even some games like tonight finish off looking good because he hits a few shots late in games but if you watch the game from start to finish you could say he had a pretty subpar game.

b@llhog24
12-04-2012, 12:46 AM
I just want to say CF86 is free to think whatever he wants, but it's going to fun to see Chronz prove him wrong on everything!

This.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:52 AM
You accuse me of ignoring things yet you keep dancing around my point. It's obvious CP3 isn't playing as well as last year but he's played POOR for long stretches and 30 percent of the games this year and you haven't flat out called it like it is.
Sorry but anytime you use percentages or any kind of numbers I just cringe. Anyways, Im not ignoring anything. You were the one who tried to say I was denying CP3 playing blow his standards, you can see in this very thread that I acknowledge that fact to ANOTHER POSTER. Yet you think Im ignoring the subject? Your not very good at this debating thing are you?


Even some games like tonight finish off looking good because he hits a few shots late in games but if you watch the game from start to finish you could say he had a pretty subpar game.
My eyes and the stats disagree with your assessment. Hes played beneath himself but I dont buy your classifications or gross numerical exaggerations. You have NO CREDIBILITY HERE. NONE


PS Im trying really hard to keep it short and dumb but do tell me if you have it in you to debate intellectually.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 12:56 AM
Chronz again acknowledging he isn't playing to his standards isn't doing it enough justice. There are quarters like today where CP3 is literally playing about as good as an NBA role player and getting outplayed by his backup. Big difference.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 12:59 AM
I have mixed feelings on this, on one hand I like that hes pacing himself after last seasons bounce back season. But with Blake playing so horribly we could have used him calling his own number more often than deferring to the likes of Butler and Crawford or creating for Willie Green.

I would rather he be healthy than get us a high seed

This is me ignoring CP3's decline.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:03 AM
Uh you call that criticism. You gently said you wish he took more shots because Blake is supposedly playing horribly? Blake has outplayed CP3 this year. "We could use him calling his own number more" is just stating an obvious thing, nothing more. It's not acknowledging that CP3 has let the team down semi regularly this year which is very uncharacteristic of him even going back to last year.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 01:04 AM
I for one don't really think CP3's playing that far below his average this season. I do think he has had some "bad" games...like tonight, where he still had 14/9, shot 50%, 3/1 A/TO and was a cold blooded killer down the stretch. I may be crazy but those are the kind of "off" nights I want from my Superstar! I don't know crap about real stats but I know PER is a decent indicator of how someone is playing. CP3's is 25.61! Holy ****, how good is he normally!?!?

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:05 AM
Chronz again acknowledging he isn't playing to his standards isn't doing it enough justice.
BUT....

Like I said if you can't say CP3 has been a disappointment this year and has played poor by his standards then you destroy yourself with lies, not me.
???


There are quarters like today where CP3 is literally playing about as good as an NBA role player and getting outplayed by his backup. Big difference.
You
But he got outplayed by his backup last year whenever Mo had it going and this year he has an even greater backup in Bledsoe so why wouldnt we expect it to happen? And I already told you I dont agree with your terminologies. If you want to quantify something feel free to do so because I have no idea what the **** your expecting or how your coming to these drastic conclusions. I see a player playing beneath himself and relying more on his skill game and less on his legs. I have mixed feelings on it but I dont pretend to assume the things you do. All the outright lies youve said in the other thread were you taking things to the extreme, all in hopes of exonerating the poor play from your golden child. UGH This is why Im a fan of the NBA rather than a single team, I cant stand the homers.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:08 AM
I don't remember games of Mo outplaying CP3, forgive me. Why? Because Mo may bang down some 3's and shoot well but he didn't do much else last year playing out of position. Didn't assist much... didn't defend... didn't rebound. CP3 had such a big edge in these facets that I don't remember that situation. Not to mention CP3 usually played WITH Mo and Mo running at SG, not backing him up.

Remember Bledsoe wasn't even healthy enough to go pretty much until March after his D League stint. Nick Young was acquired at the deadline. CP3+Mo was the common lineup for long stretches after Billups went down.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:11 AM
I for one don't really think CP3's playing that far below his average this season. I do think he has had some "bad" games...like tonight, where he still had 14/9, shot 50%, 3/1 A/TO and was a cold blooded killer down the stretch. I may be crazy but those are the kind of "off" nights I want from my Superstar! I don't know crap about real stats but I know PER is a decent indicator of how someone is playing. CP3's is 25.61! Holy ****, how good is he normally!?!?



Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2008-09 23 NOH NBA 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 .292
2007-08 22 NOH NBA 80 3006 28.3 .576 .524 2.4 10.3 6.2 52.2 3.9 0.1 12.1 25.7 125 103 13.2 4.6 17.8 .284
2011-12 26 LAC NBA 60 2181 27.0 .581 .522 2.3 9.4 5.8 43.8 3.8 0.2 10.8 24.3 126 104 10.4 2.3 12.7 .278
2012-13 27 LAC NBA 16 543 25.6 .597 .524 2.1 10.6 6.5 44.6 4.1 0.0 14.1 21.7 126 101 2.4 0.8 3.2 .281
2009-10 24 NOH NBA 45 1712 23.7 .584 .534 1.3 11.9 6.5 45.4 2.9 0.4 13.5 22.2 122 109 5.7 1.5 7.3 .204
2010-11 25 NOH NBA 80 2880 23.7 .578 .502 1.6 12.3 6.9 45.8 3.5 0.1 13.9 21.1 122 103 9.5 4.4 13.9 .232
2005-06 20 NOK NBA 78 2808 22.1 .546 .456 2.5 14.8 8.5 38.2 3.4 0.2 13.7 22.2 114 104 6.8 3.6 10.4 .178
2006-07 21 NOK NBA 64 2353 22.0 .537 .466 2.6 11.3 6.9 41.3 2.7 0.1 13.5 23.1 116 106 6.2 2.6 8.8 .179
Career NBA 501 18485 25.4 .573 .506 2.3 12.2 7.2 46.2 3.5 0.2 13.0 23.8 122 104 67.6 24.7 92.3 .240



Ranked by PER.

I dont like that his usage has dropped so low and his turnover rate increased even with added rest. But overall this would rank as his 4th best season by that stat. His winshares are better this year but thats almost certainly a product of his incessant gambling for the year and that the defense around him has improved. Im reluctant to credit CP3 for our defensive success as the stats say because his on/off court numbers arent impressive. Bledsoe has been the catalyst on that end. Its great to have both, really wish they played together more often.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:15 AM
Anyways I absolutely HATE arguing with other Clippers fans. I understand we may not see eye to eye and I have extreme ways of getting my point across at times. I apologize for being an *** and not being more low key about this stuff. Even if I debate with you guys... as fellow Clippers fans I still have a soft spot for you.

I definitely instigated in this thread and can admit it.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:16 AM
I don't remember games of Mo outplaying CP3, forgive me. Why? Because Mo may bang down some 3's and shoot well but he didn't do much else last year playing out of position. Didn't assist much... didn't defend... didn't rebound. CP3 had such a big edge in these facets that I don't remember that situation.
Luckily for Mo, shooting is the most important aspect of the game. I never said he put up prettier averages, Im saying he outplayed/outproduced him.


Not to mention CP3 usually played WITH Mo and Mo running at SG, not backing him up.
But he put up better numbers when he was WITHOUT CP3, wheras CP3's went up WITH Mo. So what exactly are you getting at here?


Remember Bledsoe wasn't even healthy enough to go pretty much until March after his D League stint.
Why do I have to remember this? I never said anything about Bledsoe last year.


Nick Young was acquired at the deadline. CP3+Mo was the common lineup for long stretches after Billups went down.

I like being more specific with my analysis. The correct response is that CP3 and Mo Williams played 807 minutes together.

tredigs
12-04-2012, 01:17 AM
I for one don't really think CP3's playing that far below his average this season. I do think he has had some "bad" games...like tonight, where he still had 14/9, shot 50%, 3/1 A/TO and was a cold blooded killer down the stretch. I may be crazy but those are the kind of "off" nights I want from my Superstar! I don't know crap about real stats but I know PER is a decent indicator of how someone is playing. CP3's is 25.61! Holy ****, how good is he normally!?!?

I've always thought that 82games' "Simple Rating" (takes into accounted an adjusted offensive/defensive PER and +/-) was a solid indicator of the type of production players on the same team were giving you, and no surprise Cp3 is #1 on LA, Blake more surprisingly is #6 for you guys right now (for those getting ~40% or more of the minutes).

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213LAC.HTM

But still, it's basketball, not baseball. The game is far more dynamic depending on hundreds of different factors and even the most advanced stats are still in their infant stages. So they all have to be taken with a grain of salt. But if you know how to apply them they do seem to hold much more weight than some of the homer fans out there and their eye test...

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:17 AM
Anyways I absolutely HATE arguing with other Clippers fans. I understand we may not see eye to eye and I have extreme ways of getting my point across at times. I apologize for being an *** and not being more low key about this stuff. Even if I debate with you guys... as fellow Clippers fans I still have a soft spot for you.

I definitely instigated in this thread and can admit it.
Not falling for your routine anymore. Trick me once...

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:20 AM
Chronz I'm saying how can CP3 be outplayed by Mo when Mo was more the backup SG than PG last year? I didn't breakdown the minutes but Mo was the one playing off of the ball, not as the ball handler/PG defender.

tredigs
12-04-2012, 01:20 AM
Like to see the Dubs close out a perfect homestand here.

SugeKnight
12-04-2012, 01:21 AM
Jack's been ballin

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 01:21 AM
Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2008-09 23 NOH NBA 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 .292
2007-08 22 NOH NBA 80 3006 28.3 .576 .524 2.4 10.3 6.2 52.2 3.9 0.1 12.1 25.7 125 103 13.2 4.6 17.8 .284
2011-12 26 LAC NBA 60 2181 27.0 .581 .522 2.3 9.4 5.8 43.8 3.8 0.2 10.8 24.3 126 104 10.4 2.3 12.7 .278
2012-13 27 LAC NBA 16 543 25.6 .597 .524 2.1 10.6 6.5 44.6 4.1 0.0 14.1 21.7 126 101 2.4 0.8 3.2 .281
2009-10 24 NOH NBA 45 1712 23.7 .584 .534 1.3 11.9 6.5 45.4 2.9 0.4 13.5 22.2 122 109 5.7 1.5 7.3 .204
2010-11 25 NOH NBA 80 2880 23.7 .578 .502 1.6 12.3 6.9 45.8 3.5 0.1 13.9 21.1 122 103 9.5 4.4 13.9 .232
2005-06 20 NOK NBA 78 2808 22.1 .546 .456 2.5 14.8 8.5 38.2 3.4 0.2 13.7 22.2 114 104 6.8 3.6 10.4 .178
2006-07 21 NOK NBA 64 2353 22.0 .537 .466 2.6 11.3 6.9 41.3 2.7 0.1 13.5 23.1 116 106 6.2 2.6 8.8 .179
Career NBA 501 18485 25.4 .573 .506 2.3 12.2 7.2 46.2 3.5 0.2 13.0 23.8 122 104 67.6 24.7 92.3 .240



Ranked by PER.

I dont like that his usage has dropped so low and his turnover rate increased even with added rest. But overall this would rank as his 4th best season by that stat. His winshares are better this year but thats almost certainly a product of his incessant gambling for the year and that the defense around him has improved. Im reluctant to credit CP3 for our defensive success as the stats say because his on/off court numbers arent impressive. Bledsoe has been the catalyst on that end. Its great to have both, really wish they played together more often.

I admit that is troubling. Those are stars most likely attributed to physical decline, especially because he's playing less minutes. He doesn't look to be in great shape, but never has...certainly didn't last year. It is safe to say that statistically he is having an average year tho. I for one just thought he was having an average year...for him.

I didn't notice any decline at all, but since it's been brought up a slight physical decline and more onus being put on skill doesn't seem out of the question. That would make a lot of sense for a defensive drop off...which once again I didn't notice.

I won't even compare him to Bledsoe. Eric may be the best PG defender in the league. I would also love to see them on the court more together. That's the only way we can keep Bled. He's going to start in the NBA. He's long enough to play SG despite being short.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:21 AM
Not falling for your routine anymore. Trick me once...

I'm not tricking anybody. I've apologized to you before then you continue to talk down to me and call me out randomly in other threads where I'm not talking to you. You're one of the most condescending guys here bar none. The apology wasn't for you alone anyways, it was a general one acknowledging that I should have handled it differently.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 01:26 AM
I've always thought that 82games' "Simple Rating" (takes into accounted an adjusted offensive/defensive PER and +/-) was a solid indicator of the type of production players on the same team were giving you, and no surprise Cp3 is #1 on LA, Blake more surprisingly is #6 for you guys right now (for those getting ~40% or more of the minutes).

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213LAC.HTM

But still, it's basketball, not baseball. The game is far more dynamic depending on hundreds of different factors and even the most advanced stats are still in their infant stages. So they all have to be taken with a grain of salt. But if you know how to apply them they do seem to hold much more weight than some of the homer fans out there and their eye test...

Thanks man! I book marked that. Any list with CP3 on top Crawford #2, Blake in the middle and Odom dead last seems legit to me!

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:28 AM
Chronz I'm saying how can CP3 be outplayed by Mo when Mo was more the backup SG than PG last year?
Because the 2 are not mutually exclusive. Mo can outplay CP3 playing either spot, he was our combo guard who filled whichever niche was required at the time.

If you want me to say it another way for you then how about, "Mo was outplaying CP3 off the bench". Or we could argue that Mo was still the primary backup PG whos stats went up without CP3 on the court.

I really dont care which way you want to play it but I can go several routes here.


I didn't breakdown the minutes but Mo was the one playing off of the ball, not as the ball handler/PG defender.
He still outplayed CP3, who was in front of him in the depth chart.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:29 AM
Thanks man! I book marked that. Any list with CP3 on top Crawford #2, Blake in the middle and Odom dead last seems legit to me!

Yup... a list with Griffin being the 6th most valuable/impactful player on the team and Billups being the 1st. Or DJ being the 3rd or 4th w/e he is. If anything this list is all over the place and unreliable. Probably due to small sample size for this kind of formula.

NYMetros
12-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Warriors really struggling vs the Magic.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Because the 2 are not mutually exclusive. Mo can outplay CP3 playing either spot, he was our combo guard who filled whichever niche was required at the time.

If you want me to say it another way for you then how about, "Mo was outplaying CP3 off the bench". Or we could argue that Mo was still the primary backup PG whos stats went up without CP3 on the court.

I really dont care which way you want to play it but I can go several routes here.


He still outplayed CP3, who was in front of him in the depth chart.

Show me which games Mo outplayed CP3 because I don't remember a single one. If I recall the couple games Mo scored nearly 30... CP3 also had good games (more well rounded ones). I don't share your belief that scoring is the most important thing in basketball either, I think defense is.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:31 AM
I admit that is troubling. Those are stars most likely attributed to physical decline, especially because he's playing less minutes. He doesn't look to be in great shape, but never has...certainly didn't last year. It is safe to say that statistically he is having an average year tho. I for one just thought he was having an average year...for him.
Can you explain how having a PER bested only by Duncan, Bron and Durant is average overall? That had to be a typo right because it IS average FOR HIM. But for the rest of the league, you may as well pencil him in for All-NBA at this rate.


I didn't notice any decline at all, but since it's been brought up a slight physical decline and more onus being put on skill doesn't seem out of the question. That would make a lot of sense for a defensive drop off...which once again I didn't notice.
Yea but his offense is still invaluable, for the year the team has fallen to utter **** when hes not on the court.

shep33
12-04-2012, 01:32 AM
Did Orlando become good all of a sudden? Killed us, now they're taking it to the Warriors. Orlando needs to tank though!

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:33 AM
I'm not tricking anybody. I've apologized to you before then you continue to talk down to me and call me out randomly in other threads where I'm not talking to you. You're one of the most condescending guys here bar none. The apology wasn't for you alone anyways, it was a general one acknowledging that I should have handled it differently.
Thats not how I saw it but whatever, just remember to hush up if your going to play the agree to disagree card, you cant claim peace keeper in one thread and victor in another. K BYE

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 01:34 AM
Yup... a list with Griffin being the 6th most valuable/impactful player on the team and Billups being the 1st. Or DJ being the 3rd or 4th w/e he is. If anything this list is all over the place and unreliable. Probably due to small sample size for this kind of formula.

I can reply to this. I doubt any formula can as capture defense as easily as offense. Blake's main improvements have been D...especially statistically.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:36 AM
Thats not how I saw it but whatever, just remember to hush up if your going to play the agree to disagree card, you cant claim peace keeper in one thread and victor in another. K BYE

Wait I claimed victor? I said that you admitted Rondo outplayed CP3 defensively last year according to the stats, never claimed anything else. Unlike you I don't think internet bickering ends in winning or losing like it's some kind of formal debate. You can post PER and all that but it doesn't mean your posts are mostly nothing more than opinions (same as everybody else).

When I said me 1 you 0 I was honestly just busting your balls, I didn't expect it to blow up into a full blown discussion (I forgot who I was talking to).

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 01:37 AM
Can you explain how having a PER bested only by Duncan, Bron and Durant is average overall? That had to be a typo right because it IS average FOR HIM. But for the rest of the league, you may as well pencil him in for All-NBA at this rate.


Yea but his offense is still invaluable, for the year the team has fallen to utter **** when hes not on the court.

Yea average year for him...I am troubled that it seems you seem to see a physical decline in his numbers.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:38 AM
Yup... a list with Griffin being the 6th most valuable/impactful player on the team and Billups being the 1st. Or DJ being the 3rd or 4th w/e he is. If anything this list is all over the place and unreliable. Probably due to small sample size for this kind of formula.
Why are you mentioning Billups? Hes barely played. The small sample is coming from your own doing. You can exclude him if you like.

Not a fan of the metric personally but it only represents whats took place thus far. I question its accuracy tho, it underrepresents their +/- numbers according to NBA.com.

shep33
12-04-2012, 01:40 AM
Orlando is playing great right now.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:43 AM
Why are you mentioning Billups? Hes barely played. The small sample is coming from your own doing. You can exclude him if you like.

Not a fan of the metric personally but it only represents whats took place thus far. I question its accuracy tho, it underrepresents their +/- numbers according to NBA.com.

Sincere question. Do you feel Griffin has been our 5th best player this year (excluding Billups like you said). I mean sure dude has been a passive sissy at times but 5th best?

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:45 AM
Wait I claimed victor?
Im starting to think your trolling me. If you cant keep up, Im not going to continue this massacre. Here let me show you where you claimed victor.


Looks like me 1 you 0 on this debate bud and yet again CP3 vanishing and looking like a low impact scrub today while Bledsoe outplays him in in 1/5th of the minutes.

All caught up now?



Unlike you I don't think internet bickering ends in winning or losing like it's some kind of formal debate.
Your words tell another story.



You can post PER and all that but it doesn't mean your posts are mostly nothing more than opinions (same as everybody else).
PER isnt an opinion, I only posted it because someone asked for it. I cite facts, you cite false opinions.


When I said me 1 you 0 I was honestly just busting your balls, I didn't expect it to blow up into a full blown discussion (I forgot who I was talking to).
You really arent aware of the rep you carry around here are you. Yes you forget that WE DONT KNOW EACHOTHER. You cant say something like that and then and wait until now to say JK. If you didn't want it to blow up you should have said, "I was JK man ****". Or something like that, instead you continued the debate. Now your cornered and NOW you want to be all "Awe shucks chronz i was obviously joking, oh wait I forget you dont get jokes".

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:46 AM
Sincere question. Do you feel Griffin has been our 5th best player this year (excluding Billups like you said). I mean sure dude has been a passive sissy at times but 5th best?

No. Hes been our 3rd or 4th best player, which is why we have underachieved. CP3 has been our best, Bledsoe comes in 2nd and either DJ or Blake depending on the night.

tredigs
12-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Magic got ultra hot in the 4th and the W's were just playing way too casual and sloppy with the ball. Trap game got 'em. Magic did not look half bad though. Still big on Afflalo.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 01:52 AM
Chronz I already said the me 1 you 0 comment was what you were referring to most likely a few posts back so how am I the one not keeping up? Also what massacre? If you mean you posting a bunch of paragraphs about how you disagree is a massacre than I'll let you keep living in that fantasy world.

This is the type of condescending personality you have though so can't expect you to talk any differently. You seem to have a lot of anger in your life man towards other people man. Remind me which facts have you shown? Posting a few stats doesn't change anything especially if they are cherry picked (again something you're good at).

His stats have been boosted efficiency wise during this 3 game winning streak but just last week were pretty damn bad. Bottom line is dude has been pretty inconsistent by his standard, is playing worse defense, is scoring less, is less efficient. Whether or not you feel it's marginal or is justified doesn't change the facts.

Most basketball players and coaches will readily tell you defense wins games yet the reason you think otherwise is because you can't quantify it as easy with stats. You base your opinions mostly on stats, I base mine mostly on not having missed a Clippers game for 13 years pretty much and a little bit of stats sprinkled in to accentuate things or curb them. Stats are a tool but can be misleading. You rely on them WAY too much and just because there is a formula doesn't mean they are "facts". PER for example doesn't account for defense at all right?

Chronz
12-04-2012, 01:58 AM
I missed this gem

Uh you call that criticism. You gently said you wish he took more shots because Blake is supposedly playing horribly? Blake has outplayed CP3 this year. "We could use him calling his own number more" is just stating an obvious thing, nothing more. It's not acknowledging that CP3 has let the team down semi regularly this year which is very uncharacteristic of him even going back to last year.
On what grounds has Blake outplayed CP3? Has the team been more productive with him on the court vs CP3? Hmm despite Blake having backups like Odom and Turiaf and CP3 having a stud like Bledsoe, it is CP3 with the higher TEAM ratings. What about individually? Hmm CP3 obliterates him statistically.... so whats left, oh right you telling me you know better than my eyes+stats because you've watched the Clippers for decades

Hes playing beneath his standards because hes not aggressive enough was the point of my post, it was an opinion shared with a GS fan.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:00 AM
I missed this gem

On what grounds has Blake outplayed CP3? Has the team been more productive with him on the court vs CP3? Hmm despite Blake having backups like Odom and Turiaf and CP3 having a stud like Bledsoe, it is CP3 with the higher TEAM ratings. What about individually? Hmm CP3 obliterates him statistically.... so whats left, oh right you telling me you know better than my eyes+stats because you've watched the Clippers for decades

Hes playing beneath his standards because hes not aggressive enough was the point of my post, it was an opinion shared with a GS fan.

I edited in "at times" and it didn't stick. I think CP3's had just as many games this year where he disappeared as Blake so it's stupid to call Blake "terrible" and defend CP3 mercilessly because he looks good on your stat sheet. CP3 in general is the better player but Blake has outplayed CP3 a few times.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Chronz I already said the me 1 you 0 comment was what you were referring to most likely a few posts back so how am I the one not keeping up?
Most likely? Sounds like your unsure. Thats why your struggling to keep up. Be precise with me bro



Also what massacre? If you mean you posting a bunch of paragraphs about how you disagree is a massacre than I'll let you keep living in that fantasy world.
Nice try but your the one dodging, deflecting, and pretending that your prior comments were jokes. Thats a massacre in any world. Oh and your talking about my personal life in the next comment so yea you've officially been cornered.


This is the type of condescending personality you have though so can't expect you to talk any differently. You seem to have a lot of anger in your life man towards other people man. Remind me which facts have you shown?
Ive debunked several of your claims, where would you like me to start?



Posting a few stats doesn't change anything especially if they are cherry picked (again something you're good at).
Prove it.


His stats have been boosted efficiency wise during this 3 game winning streak but just last week were pretty damn bad. Bottom line is dude has been pretty inconsistent by his standard, is playing worse defense, is scoring less, is less efficient. Whether or not you feel it's marginal or is justified doesn't change the facts.
LOL I love how when you cite quantifiable aspects of the game you call them facts but when I do the same (with much more accuracy) you call them a few stats.

The truth is, his offensive efficiency is the same, his usage has dropped.

So "pretty damn bad" is a gross exaggeration, he was actually pretty damn good, just not the MVP level we saw last year. Maybe its reasonable to expect a slight improvement in his production even accounting for his decline but if your going to talk stats, SHOW ME SOME STATS.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 02:04 AM
No. Hes been our 3rd or 4th best player, which is why we have underachieved. CP3 has been our best, Bledsoe comes in 2nd and either DJ or Blake depending on the night.

I actually got Jamal #2, but I'd agree with that otherwise. I also think Blake is just slumping. He is without a doubt our 2nd best player. The opposition treats him like he is the main guy they have to stop...after CP3.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:07 AM
I edited in "at times" and it didn't stick. I think CP3's had just as many games this year where he disappeared as Blake so it's stupid to call Blake "terrible" and defend CP3 mercilessly because he looks good on your stat sheet. CP3 in general is the better player but Blake has outplayed CP3 a few times.
Im not defending him mercilessly, Ive acknowledged his decline. The reason Im stressing Blakes decline is because it has been much more substantial. With regard to both his individual metrics and how the team has performed in comparison with CP3. Thats why your out of line

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:09 AM
Chronz CP3 was at 43 percent from the field, 31 percent from 3 before this 3 game winning streak. Last year he was at 48 and 38. Again this 3 game win streak has boosted his stats to his "normal" range but I still see a level of inconsistency I didn't see last year. More stretches where he's ineffective and disappears.

Also the most important aspect of the game IMO (defense) CP3 has taken a pretty big dip this year. He's always going to bounce back with scoring and passing... it's the defense that's causing problems because guys like Steve Blake have TORCHED this all NBA 1st team defender this year.

Remember the Lakers game where he couldn't get by Steve Blake on drives and was getting schooled? I mean I remember thinking how pathetic and out of shape he looked that game. He's bouncing back decently but today my negative feelings were brought back when 25 minutes into the game the dude had 4 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers while Bledsoe having 8 points, 3 offensive rebounds in 6 minutes was riding the pine.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:14 AM
Im not defending him mercilessly, Ive acknowledged his decline. The reason Im stressing Blakes decline is because it has been much more substantial. With regard to both his individual metrics and how the team has performed in comparison with CP3. Thats why your out of line

I've regularly agreed with you guys this year that Blake was often passive and even SOFT. Thing is Blake is a raw, 3rd year big. He's a player who hasn't exactly had good coaching or mentoring. CP3 is an 8th year vet, legendary leader/high IQ player and has had good mentors and coaches. I blame Blake's development struggles at times on circumstances because we know Blake works his *** off on his own.

Besides Blake's a better player this year. Same way you say CP3 is getting gimped by less shots, less usage etc that applies to Blake even more. Shots down, touches down, usage down and the offense often goes away from him in the 2nd half which cools him down a lot of times. Blake's now shooting 45 percent from midrange (37 percent last year) and his free throw shooting isn't far below 65 percent. He's not played solid defense but flat out GOOD D this year.

The only thing Blake is to blame for is not attacking enough but how about our best shooter and takeover scorer CP3? He's allowed to regularly have 2-5 shot attempts at the half? I think CP3 being a top 5 player, superstar, 8 year vet and one of the smartest NBA players of all time deserves a bit more criticism.

I know you probably don't see it but I criticize Blake pretty regularly this year. It's not like I'm just on some CP3 bashing rage.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:17 AM
Chronz CP3 was at 43 percent from the field, 31 percent from 3 before this 3 game winning streak. Last year he was at 48 and 38. Again this 3 game win streak has boosted his stats to his "normal" range but I still see a level of inconsistency I didn't see last year. More stretches where he's ineffective and disappears.
Thats usually what happens when players decline statistically and rely more on their skill game. The point remains Blake has played worse, unless your trying to argue that being consistently subpar is a good thing.


Also the most important aspect of the game IMO (defense) CP3 has taken a pretty big dip this year. He's always going to bounce back with scoring and passing... it's the defense that's causing problems because guys like Steve Blake have TORCHED this all NBA 1st team defender this year.

The cliche has some truth to it, but its also true that defense at the point of attack is far less important than defense from your bigs. More importantly, trying to ignore any one side of the field instead of looking at the COMPLETE picture is why nobody takes you seriously.

The Clippers have defended better without CP3, and its true we could benefit if he stopped gambling so much. But compared to the dropoff offensively from Blake, its a laughable comparison to make.

Its very telling that despite CP3 having studs like Bledsoe and Crawford coming off the bench when hes resting and Blake having bums backing him up, the team has suffered to a greater degree without CP3 on the court.


Remember the Lakers game where he couldn't get by Steve Blake on drives and was getting schooled? I mean I remember thinking how pathetic and out of shape he looked that game. He's bouncing back decently but today my negative feelings were brought back when 25 minutes into the game the dude had 4 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers while Bledsoe having 8 points, 3 offensive rebounds in 6 minutes was riding the pine.
Uh huh

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:20 AM
Can we at least all agree that Bledsoe is pretty amazing? Chronz you said he's been our 2nd or 3rd best player so would you agree he needs way more minutes than 16 or 17 a game?

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:26 AM
Besides Blake's a better player this year. Same way you say CP3 is getting gimped by less shots, less usage etc that applies to Blake even more.

UGH no its not the same. And look I dont want to keep calling you a liar but you are horribly misinformed when it comes to statistical terminology. His usage is the same, its his minutes that are down. In spite of this his offensive efficiency has suffered (whereas CP3's has remained the same), considering the chasm of a difference in their efficiency already, its an unacceptable outcome. Ive already broken down his possession usage. He was actually going into the post/iso MORE. Where he has suffered the most has been on his board work and pnr opportunities. Hes not getting as many spoonfeeds off movement either. In other words, youve made a horrible comparison.



Shots down, touches down, usage down and the offense often goes away from him in the 2nd half which cools him down a lot of times. Blake's now shooting 45 percent from midrange (37 percent last year) and his free throw shooting isn't far below 65 percent. He's not played solid defense but flat out GOOD D this year.
His minutes are down, that typically helps a players per minute production. And his touches are actually up, hes our most prolific possession waster so what are you talking about?


The only thing Blake is to blame for is not attacking enough but how about our best shooter and takeover scorer CP3? He's allowed to regularly have 2-5 shot attempts at the half? I think CP3 being a top 5 player, superstar, 8 year vet and one of the smartest NBA players of all time deserves a bit more criticism.
This makes no sense, why would I be harder on the player whos coming closest to matching expectations? The vet whos already carried far greater burdens or the youngster whos drastically underachieving in several aspects of the game.


I know you probably don't see it but I criticize Blake pretty regularly this year. It's not like I'm just on some CP3 bashing rage.
Everything you have said proves to the contrary. You have already admitted to thinking Blake has outplayed CP3 this year when in reality hes been our least effective scoring option amongst our best.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:30 AM
For future reference, touches and usage are separate concepts. Touches refers to the amount of plays your asked to create. Usage is simply the amount of possessions you account for. If someone gets a post touch its different than someone acting as an outlet option, tho both will show up equally in a usage%

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:33 AM
Blake's usage percentage IS down from last year and from year one. Minutes being down is a big thing too. I don't care about PER 36 in this case I'm saying he's not being given as many chances to produce as he has in prior years. As for touches what stat would that be? Time of possession or something? I was saying that based on watching the games, wasn't mentioning a stat intentionally.

I don't think Blake is underachieving that much TBH. I think he's improved all of his weaknesses (at the cost of his normal strengths at times). He's been our most consistent defender after Bledsoe, he's shooting much better from the line and on the jumper. His scoring and rebounding rates are down a bit but they seem to be climbing as he healed up from the early injuries.

Maybe as you mentioned the reason these are all down is because he's playing quite a bit less. BTW I meant in a few games Blake has outplayed CP3, not through the season as a whole. CP3 is clearly our all around best player and biggest contributor in general.

Again before you again call me a liar when I'm claiming no facts these are just my personal opinions and observations. I'm not telling you that yours are wrong this is just what I've seen. Maybe my expectations for CP3 are unfair and part of my criticism is driven by the fact that Bledsoe is riding the bench too much even at the times when CP3/Crawford are stinking it up. I mean how does Bledsoe get 10 or 11 minutes tonight when he killed it while he was in?

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:36 AM
Can we at least all agree that Bledsoe is pretty amazing? Chronz you said he's been our 2nd or 3rd best player so would you agree he needs way more minutes than 16 or 17 a game?

The fact that you need reaffirmation troubles me. Yes CN86, I do think one of our best players deserves playing time. This will probably be the 3rd time Ive said this in this thread but heres another just in case.

Bledsoe = Demi-God

Are we done now?

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 02:43 AM
One thing I will say as a Cilppers fan is that Blake looked great tonight! He had tons of post moves against 2 good post defenders. CP3 seems to be doing fine. The team is 11-6. I've been a fan for 18 years. I am happy! :shrug:

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:48 AM
Yes Chronz goodnight. I enjoyed our bonding session.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:50 AM
One thing I will say as a Cilppers fan is that Blake looked great tonight! He had tons of post moves against 2 good post defenders. CP3 seems to be doing fine. The team is 11-6. I've been a fan for 18 years. I am happy! :shrug:

CP3 held the ball way less. Blake was getting the ball with plenty of time to make plays rather than feeds with 5 seconds or less on the clock. In fact that's my biggest praise for CP3 tonight. He wasn't holding the ball 20 seconds everytime down the floor but rather was passing and moving better than I've seen all year.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:52 AM
Blake's usage percentage IS down from last year and from year one.
Think this through. His usage is at 26.1 and he just had a 20 attempt game, a few days ago his usage was at 27. His rate last year was at 26.6, its fair to say his usage is the same. Arguing over a few decimal points of usage and ignoring the CHASM of a difference in efficiency is why your not statistically savvy.


Minutes being down is a big thing too. I don't care about PER 36 in this case I'm saying he's not being given as many chances to produce as he has in prior years.
Minutes being down and efficiency getting worse is an even bigger thing. But lets pretend your right and his usage was significantly altered, your essentially saying not only is he being asked to do less but hes failing in the simplest of roles. The truth is, hes been turnover prone, not as efficient in PnR or on the glass. But what do you mean you dont care about Per minute stats? You dont care if hes not producing in the minutes he gets? Thats pretty much the reason I want Bledsoe to play more, because hes proven worthy of the chance.



As for touches what stat would that be?
Blake has gotten more post-ups and isolations than he did last year, its just coming in less minutes. Those are touches. When someone gets the ball and is told to create as opposed to finishing a play. Blake has struggled in both roles but is beginning to come on.


Time of possession or something? I was saying that based on watching the games, wasn't mentioning a stat intentionally.
Thats next level stuff. But yes they have a dribbling/time of possession stat, public only gets tidbits tho.


I don't think Blake is underachieving that much TBH. I think he's improved all of his weaknesses (at the cost of his normal strengths at times). He's been our most consistent defender after Bledsoe, he's shooting much better from the line and on the jumper. His scoring and rebounding rates are down a bit but they seem to be climbing as he healed up from the early injuries.
Thats not surprising, I wouldn't think its that big of a difference if I just glossed over the fact that his strengths have been compromised. Ive already told you before that you should be hoping its a result of injuries rather than a sign of his dependence on any system/teammate.


Maybe as you mentioned the reason these are all down is because he's playing quite a bit less.
You misunderstood me, Im saying the fact that they are down despite getting more rest is TROUBLING. Thats typically not the trend you see and even in cases where it happens, this is too drastic of a loss in efficiency and rebounding. We are talking about him finishing plays at the rim at a lower level of efficiency in several areas. Hes not finishing offensive rebounds as well, hes not finishing off the PnR slashes either.



Again before you again call me a liar when I'm claiming no facts these are just my personal opinions and observations. I'm not telling you that yours are wrong this is just what I've seen. Maybe my expectations for CP3 are unfair and part of my criticism is driven by the fact that Bledsoe is riding the bench too much even at the times when CP3/Crawford are stinking it up. I mean how does Bledsoe get 10 or 11 minutes tonight when he killed it while he was in?
I called you a liar with regards to the facts you tried to give. Citing usage and touches are not opinion, they are statistical truths.

Me saying that Blake has gotten more of his attempts off of post-ups and isolation plays is not an opinion, its a fact.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 02:54 AM
One thing I will say as a Cilppers fan is that Blake looked great tonight! He had tons of post moves against 2 good post defenders. CP3 seems to be doing fine. The team is 11-6. I've been a fan for 18 years. I am happy! :shrug:

Who are these 2 good post defenders I wonder. Yes hes looked great, I know its heartless but Im a firm believer in the law of averages. Its simply inconceivable for Blake to regress this badly in so many areas that were strengths last year. And with his improved jumper/defense, he should soon become our MVP.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 02:59 AM
Chronz no doubt Griffin has struggled some and numbers are down but in terms of how good he is as a player and how rounded my personal opinion is he's the best he's ever been. I think by the end of the year he will be back to his 20/10/3 plus stats but with much improved efficiency and D. I still think his teammates need to do better at getting him in good situations.

Like tonight CP3 needs to feed him way earlier in shotclocks. On Blake's end he needs to attack way more. Btw you said Blake's post touches are up? Tonight during game they flashed a stat about Griffin attempting a much higher percentage of shots outside the paint this year so not sure how.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 03:04 AM
Chronz no doubt Griffin has struggled some and numbers are down but in terms of how good he is as a player and how rounded my personal opinion is he's the best he's ever been. I think by the end of the year he will be back to his 20/10/3 plus stats but with much improved efficiency and D. I still think his temates need to do better at getting him in good situations.

Like tonight CP3 needs to feed him way earlier in shotclocks. On Blake's end he needs to attack way more. Btw you said Blake's post touches are up? Tonight during game they flashes a stat about Griffin attempting a much higher percentage of shots outside the paint this year so not sure how.

Remember that argument I jumped into regarding LMA post game. And how I said he was one of the most effective go-to post options. You corrected me by saying you were only focusing on low-post touches. Similar thing here.

Also I said his post-up/isolation attempts were up. His forays to the rim havent been as efficient and his jumper has been sporadic.


But tonight he was 6/6 in post ups.

Cracka2HI!
12-04-2012, 03:07 AM
Who are these 2 good post defenders I wonder. Yes hes looked great, I know its heartless but Im a firm believer in the law of averages. Its simply inconceivable for Blake to regress this badly in so many areas that were strengths last year. And with his improved jumper/defense, he should soon become our MVP.

Milsap and Jefferson. The Jazz are team that has good bigs. Blake didn't exactly dominant but he made up for DJ's bad game IMO. I think Utah played a very good game on both sides of the ball too and we still beat them. Blake seemed to be the best player on the floor tonight. I was very pleased with the win tonight!

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 03:09 AM
Weird... I wonder why his post up attempts are up. I've seen him on the perimeter way too much. Maybe it's the "high post" like you said regarding Aldridge. Maybe it's my own flawed viewpoint but I don't personally consider the high post (15 feet out etc) the post although I'm fundamentally incorrect. Maybe I should specify within 9 feet or w/e the deeper/mid post is charted as on 82 games etc.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 03:10 AM
Jazz are the best frontcourt in the NBA along with Grizzlies IMO. Favors was out but Al, Millsap and Kanter are a nightmare for teams.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 03:23 AM
Milsap and Jefferson. The Jazz are team that has good bigs. Blake didn't exactly dominant but he made up for DJ's bad game IMO. I think Utah played a very good game on both sides of the ball too and we still beat them. Blake seemed to be the best player on the floor tonight. I was very pleased with the win tonight!

Blake dominated (up until the end), anytime you score 30 on 70% shooting you dominated, offensively at least. While Utah has some great bigs, I dont know how good their defense is. According to synergy they are as good as Blake has been this year but its soo early in the season that it means nothing. I do know they sucked last year. Subjectively though, Milsap is exactly the kind of defender Blake can overpower and out maneuver. Milsap holds no physical advantages of any kind in this matchup, but the way he was making assertive moves in the post, I doubt anyone could have slowed him tonight.

Chronz
12-04-2012, 03:29 AM
Weird... I wonder why his post up attempts are up. I've seen him on the perimeter way too much. Maybe it's the "high post" like you said regarding Aldridge. Maybe it's my own flawed viewpoint but I don't personally consider the high post (15 feet out etc) the post although I'm fundamentally incorrect. Maybe I should specify within 9 feet or w/e the deeper/mid post is charted as on 82 games etc.

Its more like mid post, hes getting more plays off pinch post action and more clear outs. DJ prolly gets more deep post touches, sometimes directed by Blake himself, so its hard to have them both stationed down there without compromising spacing. Not impossible but the zones have been more effective than they were last year IMO. Hopefully Chauncey alleviates that problem somewhat.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 03:37 AM
I didn't think of the,crowding problem but that's definitely valid since DJ camps there all game long (good for two violations a game lol).

Chronz
12-04-2012, 03:45 AM
All I know is that I want Blake to be our MVP as much as anyone, but you go to great lengths to ignore the sacrifices CP3 makes in his game for Blake. He clearly tries to get the bigman going, last year he had to constantly tell him to just attack. I mean last year when Blake wasn't on the court, CP3 saw his scoring rate increase dramatically. Some of that probably had to do with his natural habit of being an overseer of the game until the 4th quarter but mostly because he knows he has to look for his own when Blake isnt out there. Whereas Blake gets his regardless, I will admit CP3 hasn't been that great this year but I think you should stop blaming either one of them for the others shortcomings. Let them be held accountable for their own actions.

Clippersfan86
12-04-2012, 03:56 AM
Fair enough. I just want Blake to get more easy shots and dunks to get him going. CP3 never hits him anymore on the deadly spin lobs. Baron and Blake got 6 points a game off that regularly. Those plays seem to get Blake fired up.

Over Da Pence
12-04-2012, 08:40 AM
Chronz no doubt Griffin has struggled some and numbers are down but in terms of how good he is as a player and how rounded my personal opinion is he's the best he's ever been. I think by the end of the year he will be back to his 20/10/3 plus stats but with much improved efficiency and D. I still think his teammates need to do better at getting him in good situations.

Like tonight CP3 needs to feed him way earlier in shotclocks. On Blake's end he needs to attack way more. Btw you said Blake's post touches are up? Tonight during game they flashed a stat about Griffin attempting a much higher percentage of shots outside the paint this year so not sure how.


yo clippersfan u have always been a good friend. It's me, shady from ish