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View Full Version : Player whose regressed the furthest this season?



Ebbs
12-01-2012, 03:14 AM
While guys like Kobe and Tim Duncan are having revitalized starts to the season, who has noticeably took a step back?

I see Wade being mentioned a lot; I thought he lost a step last year and he's continued to slip sure. However I don't think he has fallen the furthest. Joe Johnson has played below par, as has Pierce, Manu, Lin, by their own standards.

Guys I thought would make big strides in their game like DeMarcus Cousins have also taken a small step backwards.

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 03:15 AM
Pierce and Manu are due to old age. Lin was never that good, and Joe Johnson has indeed struggled mightly to start the season.

Ebbs
12-01-2012, 03:17 AM
Pierce has 0 burst/quickness although he hasn't been as bad as I feel the main forum has bashed him for thus far.

Longhornfan1234
12-01-2012, 03:23 AM
Wade was a borderline top 10 player last year. He's not even top 30 player this season. Also...he's not the best SG on his team right now.

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 03:26 AM
Wade was a borderline top 10 player last year. He's not even top 30 player this season. Also...he's not the best SG on his team right now.

Are you suggesting Ray Allen is better than Dwyane Wade?

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 03:27 AM
Roy Hibbert has regressed like a mother****er on offense.

tp13baby
12-01-2012, 03:37 AM
Ty Lawson for damn sure. This guy isn't aggressive at all and thats why he was good. Gallo also has not stepped up, but he is playing alot better as of late.

Andrew32
12-01-2012, 03:40 AM
Wade was a borderline top 10 player last year. He's not even top 30 player this season. Also...he's not the best SG on his team right now.

Wade was a Top 5 player last year and the best SG.
This year he is clearly Top 15-20 at worst and lol @ Ray being better (even tho I like Ray).

Obvious hater.

LAKERMANIA
12-01-2012, 03:44 AM
Wade was a Top 5 player last year and the best SG.
This year he is clearly Top 15-20 at worst and lol @ Ray being better (even tho I like Ray).

Obvious hater.

:laugh:

JNA17
12-01-2012, 03:45 AM
Ty Lawson looks terrible.
Pau Gasol, although he also regressed last season as well.
D-Wade

JNA17
12-01-2012, 03:46 AM
:laugh:

Why even bother with him? When did "don't feed the trolls" all of a sudden become irrelevant?

seikou8
12-01-2012, 03:47 AM
Wade was a Top 5 player last year and the best SG.
This year he is clearly Top 15-20 at worst and lol @ Ray being better (even tho I like Ray).

Obvious hater.

ironic kobe hater

LAKERS 24/7
12-01-2012, 03:48 AM
Im curious, what are Lin's standards for how he should play?

Ebbs
12-01-2012, 03:51 AM
Im curious, what are Lin's standards for how he should play?

Well I watched him play a hell of a lot better tha this during linsanity. So yea I expect at least that,

Longhornfan1234
12-01-2012, 03:55 AM
Are you suggesting Ray Allen is better than Dwyane Wade?

He's better right now this season. Small sample size, though.

GiantsSwaGG
12-01-2012, 04:50 AM
Wade sucks now
Pierce will need ankles soon

Alayla
12-01-2012, 05:11 AM
He's better right now this season. Small sample size, though.

:facepalm:

Baller1
12-01-2012, 05:11 AM
Wade, Pierce, And Hibbert easily.

Ebbs
12-01-2012, 05:44 AM
My vote is probably Hibbert which makes sense. As soon as the kids get paid theres usually a couple who stop caring.

YoungOne
12-01-2012, 07:08 AM
roy hibbert, ilyasova

clehmun
12-01-2012, 07:27 AM
kobe, duncan, pierce and to a certain extent wade are guys who should be regessing due to age. no surprise there although kobe and duncan haven't slowed down one bit this year.

its guy like blake griffin, lawson, ilyasova who are disappointing because they should only be getting better.

Greedy22
12-01-2012, 07:28 AM
I really gotta start watching more heat games, the 2 games I saw wade had a great game and the game against the Knicks they all stunk it up. Lawson really has taken a step back, he needs to be aggressive, that's when he's at his best. Especially last year in the playoffs, dude was a killer.

marsza
12-01-2012, 08:52 AM
Lin
Gortat
Ilyasova
Pierce
Terry
Fields
Okafor

torocan
12-01-2012, 09:49 AM
All I have to say is.... SAMPLE SIZE.

Ask this question again at the All Star break.

ombada
12-01-2012, 10:15 AM
My vote is probably Hibbert which makes sense. As soon as the kids get paid theres usually a couple who stop caring.

Its not that he doesnt care, its the opposite, he cares too much. With Granger going down, his massive contract and all the problems weve had hitting shots early in the season, hes trying to shoulder too much of the responsibility.

mightybosstone
12-01-2012, 10:33 AM
Ebbs, if you don't think Wade has fallen that far, you should look at the numbers. His stats this season are an absolute train wreck compared to the last few years.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 10:43 AM
All I have to say is.... SAMPLE SIZE.

Ask this question again at the All Star break.

I really don't think we need to. If a player is playing significantly worse than we've ever seen him I think its fair to fair that their play as of right now has regressed. Look at Illyasova. He looks absolutely atrocious out there as compared to his play last season and its showing in his #s and coach's lack of confidence in him.

Do you also think its too early to say what players have improved the most thus far.

torocan
12-01-2012, 11:24 AM
Do you also think its too early to say what players have improved the most thus far.

In many ways, yes.

Sure, some stuff is obvious (like improved footwork) or are obviously skill based, however alot of stuff isn't.

Wade may not have great hops right now, but in the opaque world of NBA injury reporting, it's too early to judge whether it's permanent or a blip.

The same with shooting. Shooting is very much a combination of rhythm and health. Unless there's a visible decline in form, it's hard to take too much out of a player who is not sinking buckets, especially over a small sample size.

And let's not forget the chemistry factor. Alot of players are dealing with new lineups, new team mates, new teams, and even new coaches. It takes time for those sorts of things to sort out. Just ask Lebron and Wade in their first year together.

With this small a sample size, we need to be careful to distinguish between slumps, blips, and trends.

Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook are having one of their worst shooting seasons in their careers. Are we to assume that they're on the decline over such a small sample of games?

If we are to discount a player's skills and ability over runs of 20, 30 or one season's worth of good production, does it makes sense to do so when they have poor production for 15 games?

I'm not saying that the games so far are entirely meaningless, I just believe that the sample size has such a huge room for error that I don't consider it large enough to draw a meaningful conclusion over whether a player is in decline, or a weaker player than we previously believed.

Hellcrooner
12-01-2012, 11:25 AM
For the moment its Pierce or Pau.

But its early.


Red flags for Nash and Dirk when they come back from their injurys.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Aldridge. Portland should be so much better now.

And Hibbert ain't helping how "Soft" label. I do like his passing ability though.

David West is killing it though.

eternal slumber
12-01-2012, 12:40 PM
Wade looks like a different player this year. doesn't know if age is catching up with him already.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 12:40 PM
In many ways, yes.

Sure, some stuff is obvious (like improved footwork) or are obviously skill based, however alot of stuff isn't.

Wade may not have great hops right now, but in the opaque world of NBA injury reporting, it's too early to judge whether it's permanent or a blip.

The same with shooting. Shooting is very much a combination of rhythm and health. Unless there's a visible decline in form, it's hard to take too much out of a player who is not sinking buckets, especially over a small sample size.

And let's not forget the chemistry factor. Alot of players are dealing with new lineups, new team mates, new teams, and even new coaches. It takes time for those sorts of things to sort out. Just ask Lebron and Wade in their first year together.

With this small a sample size, we need to be careful to distinguish between slumps, blips, and trends.

Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook are having one of their worst shooting seasons in their careers. Are we to assume that they're on the decline over such a small sample of games?

If we are to discount a player's skills and ability over runs of 20, 30 or one season's worth of good production, does it makes sense to do so when they have poor production for 15 games?

I'm not saying that the games so far are entirely meaningless, I just believe that the sample size has such a huge room for error that I don't consider it large enough to draw a meaningful conclusion over whether a player is in decline, or a weaker player than we previously believed.

You are clearly viewing this from a totally different standpoint that I or most others are. Jrue Holiday has shown things this season that he has never before show, his shooting from the field has been improved, along with his shot selection, decision making and footwork on D. He is also doing a better job of attacking the basket and attempting to initiate contact.

You can literally watch a player and see if he's the same player we are used to seeing. I have watch Dwight Howard and he seems as if he isn't sure how much he can push his body or he may be playing in some sort of pain. I have watched Blake Griffin and seen that he's also in the same boat as Howard and as a result he may be deciding to change his game. I've watch Ilysova and seen that he isn't getting the type of positioning he did last season nor finding himself in good positions to score. His bricks as well don't seem like that of a player who is in poor shooting form it looks like that of a player who is in poor basketball shape all together. He has even been brick city from the line as well.

It's like watching Lamar Odom last season. You really didn't need to watch that many games to see that something was wrong with him and that he regressed as a player as a result. It doesn't mean that said player can't get it back together down the road but to start the season it isn't just a funk its more of a major step backwards.

We're not talking about Flip Murray here players who are just not scoring as well we're talking about how much of a step backwards a player's game has taken.

torocan
12-01-2012, 01:33 PM
You are clearly viewing this from a totally different standpoint that I or most others are...

...It doesn't mean that said player can't get it back together down the road but to start the season it isn't just a funk its more of a major step backwards.

We're not talking about Flip Murray here players who are just not scoring as well we're talking about how much of a step backwards a player's game has taken.

Perhaps my difference in view is the word "regression".

When I think regression I think textbook definitions... IE, the act of returning to a previous, usually worse or less developed state. For me it implies a permanent or semi-permanent decline in performance.

Now, if the thread had asked which players are underperforming this season, I might have interpreted the thread differently.

Still, I don't put much stock in the whole thing this early into the season in terms of statistical output due to small sample size. As for individual improvements in decision making or form, those are subjective judgement calls.

Kind of like "unorthodox shooting form" is basically code for, "his shot works but doesn't look like someone else's shot". Subjectively nice, but objectively meaningless unless it results in measurable improvement or decline.

Anyway, just some meandering thoughts. :D

Baller1
12-01-2012, 01:42 PM
Ilyasova is another one for sure. What a terrible contract that's going to turn out to be.

koreancabbage
12-01-2012, 01:54 PM
Wade was a borderline top 10 player last year. He's not even top 30 player this season. Also...he's not the best SG on his team right now.

clearly a Wade hater - lol @ rayray being the better SG on the team. tell me a team that doesn't want Wade and i'll give you the "not even a top 30 player" argument. why do you even get to post.

koreancabbage
12-01-2012, 01:55 PM
Wade looks like a different player this year. doesn't know if age is catching up with him already.

yea def slowed down this year - he's struggling with his shot year. he's in a slump this year - like most players will get in their careers a few times here and there. and its really the beginning of the season- i expect better things from Wade going forward.

Supreme LA
12-01-2012, 02:03 PM
Wade has regressed big time. It appears to be more than just a shooting slump. He doesn't look like he can get to the spots on the floor with as much ease as he used to. He also has a hard time getting good quality shots off. His days of breaking people down one on one are over.

I do think he is still capable of scoring big in transition and open court. He's just terrible at everything else. He's pretty much done.

ACanadian
12-01-2012, 02:27 PM
Barganani, he was almost a all-star last year, now he's playing like a role player/sixth man at best

likemystylez
12-01-2012, 02:52 PM
andrew bogut and andrew bynum

mjt20mik
12-01-2012, 03:41 PM
I knew Lin would struggle at the beginning of this season. Coming back from a knee surgery sucks! But Wade has to be the biggest disappointment. LI NING baby

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 03:48 PM
I think Steve Nash has regressed the most this year. When he was playing, he was averaging 4.5 points and 4.5 assists per game on the Lakers. Now he's injured and adding nothing to a team playing better without him.
I still wonder why the Lakers didn't go for Kyle Lowry or Goran Dragic.

tripleplay2007
12-01-2012, 04:00 PM
Steve Nash anyone? He had an amazing season last year but this season he sucked the first few games and is now "injured".

Wade has a lot less pop but he will give his 110% in the playoffs along with the other playoff vets which were mentioned. NBA regular season really doesn't mean ****, the true intensity comes along in the playoffs.

KnickaBocka.44
12-01-2012, 04:09 PM
Steve Nash anyone? He had an amazing season last year but this season he sucked the first few games and is now "injured".

Wade has a lot less pop but he will give his 110% in the playoffs along with the other playoff vets which were mentioned. NBA regular season really doesn't mean ****, the true intensity comes along in the playoffs.

Nash wasn't good, but he also didn't really suck either, he was just stuck running an offense that wasn't suited to his game.

kobe4thewinbang
12-01-2012, 04:14 PM
Would it be fair to say Kyrie Irving is in a funk so far? He was good in their first game, but Cavs have clearly struggled since then (4-12 as of now). After saying they were hoping to give the fans a good season, I think Irving isn't living up to the promise.

mngopher35
12-01-2012, 04:23 PM
Would it be fair to say Kyrie Irving is in a funk so far? He was good in their first game, but Cavs have clearly struggled since then (4-12 as of now). After saying they were hoping to give the fans a good season, I think Irving isn't living up to the promise.

Just because the team isn't great doesn't mean he as a player is regressing a lot. Sure he has played slightly worse than last year, but I wouldn't think its enough to be mentioned in this thread. Also he has been out for the last few games. His shooting percentages are roughly the same, his raw numbers are slightly better (due to more minutes) and his advanced stats have taken a slight hit. I really don't think its fair to say hes regressed much if at all.

MrfadeawayJB
12-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Wade, Nash, Gasol

#1NetsFan
12-01-2012, 04:32 PM
My vote goes to Wade for sure.

JasonJohnHorn
12-01-2012, 05:13 PM
I would go with Wade and Pierce, though I expected it with Pierce. Lin? I wouldn't call is a slide back, just reality setting in. Manu is fine... he's getting older, and the Spurs are deeper and younger on the wing than they have been in the past (until SJax and Leonard got injured). As for JJ, he got off to a slow start, but he's been picking it up. He's in a new system, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. D-Will has taken a step back statistically, but I think he's playing well, just sharing the ball more, and his team is winning, so...

Garnett hasn't impressed me much so far this season, but his minutes are down.

Brand has fallen off. I expected him to play very well with Dirk gone, but he's fighting just to get minutes and is NOT shooting the ball well at all.

I was hoping to see Marc Gasol turn it up in the rebounding column, but it's actually gone down a little this year. And Odom has just fallen off the face of the earth?!?!?!? I hope he returns to form. He's such a great talent.

Other than that, nothing beyond what I expected for the aging players.

kobe4thewinbang
12-01-2012, 06:08 PM
How can anyone say Nash? Dude only played 1 game, lol.

LAKERMANIA
12-01-2012, 06:12 PM
For those who said Nash, he only played 1 and a half games...

Hawkeye15
12-01-2012, 06:56 PM
so far, Wade.

jaydubb
12-01-2012, 07:11 PM
clearly a Wade hater - lol @ rayray being the better SG on the team. tell me a team that doesn't want Wade and i'll give you the "not even a top 30 player" argument. why do you even get to post.

Well, to be fair, he did say right now which you could argue that RIGHT NOW ray has been more productive then Dwade playing less minutes.. I mean rayray is having a career shooting year, he's hitting more then half of his 3s.. HALF.. 5 out of every 10 goes in.. that's ridiculous.. Although I would not agree that ray is better then Dwade overall, I would say in less minutes ray has been EXTREMELY productive whereas, as most people agree, Wade has lost a step so RIGHT NOW the comparison is actually a lot closer then most will entertain SO FAR THIS SEASON.. I agree with you, anybody would be brain dead to take Ray over Dwade long term but so far, Ray has been close to the production of Wade if not slightly better in less minutes.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
12-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Pierce has lost some quickness, but outside of that he's been fine. His 3 point % is up, TS and EFG% are about the same and his PER is only down a point with his rebounding being better than last season.

Anyways Hibbert has regressed which doesn't surprise me tbh.

Tmath
12-01-2012, 07:30 PM
Barganani, he was almost a all-star last year, now he's playing like a role player/sixth man at best

He played well for a stretch of 9 games before getting injured last season and when he came back he played like garbage. I'd hardly say he was almost an all-star.

Sly Guy
12-01-2012, 07:53 PM
Im curious, what are Lin's standards for how he should play?

good question, asking if lin has been a disappointment is more a question of what his expectations were.

Personally, I don't think he's all that far off. I was expecting 12-13ppg, 7-7.5 ast, >3 TO, 45%fg shooting and he'd have been satisfactory. He's not that far off in that except his fg%, so I wouldn't put him in this category yet. Still don't think he's worth his contract tho.