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View Full Version : Was Blake Griffin's first season better than his last and this one so far?



NetsPaint
11-30-2012, 07:14 PM
And also, did Baron Davis have better chemistry with him than Chris Paul?

Granted, I watched him a lot more in his first season, but I've heard a lot while watching games about what he needs to improve and his numbers going down. In his first season it looked like he could be an MVP candidate one day.

About the Baron Davis/Chris Paul thing, I'm not saying who the better player is. Baron had great chemistry with Griffin, regardless of what you think of him in general. What do you think? I want to know opinions of people who watched a lot from both duos.

ManRam
11-30-2012, 07:16 PM
He was certainly better last year than he was his rookie year, but it wasn't by huge leaps and bounds. So far, this season, he's been a bit of a disappointment (defensively, at least early on, he was playing amazingly well though), but it's still too early. He's not quite playing as big of a role on the offense, so it might take some adjusting.

Minimal
11-30-2012, 07:27 PM
I think he is the same that he was in rookie year, its just the teams role was changed a bit.

This guy didn't improve during his 3 years in the league, which is pathetic.

ChiSox219
11-30-2012, 07:30 PM
On Chris Paul, he slows the game down and runs a methodical offense. The Clippers dropped from 12th to 27th in pace after acquiring CP3.

This year they are running more and in general I think Blake's numbers will bounce back if he can get healthy. Overall it's unquestionable Griffin has improved, the problem is now he is taking a lot of mid range jumpers and attacking less. While his midrange has been effective (44%) relative to league average (37.7%, it's far less effective than the shots he's been taking the past two years, mostly around the basket.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 07:37 PM
I dont know what to make of him this year, I feel like hes trying harder defensively and hes improving his all-around game but if he doesnt get back to dunking on people then all hope is lost for us. Hes setting everyone up nicely tho

Blitzbolt
11-30-2012, 07:40 PM
I think Blake is rebounding and playing Defense and that's what matters he is a good player but not really a super star.

MetroMan
11-30-2012, 07:45 PM
Overrated. All he can do is jump.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2012, 08:34 PM
Blake's overall game has improved, but until he starts attacking hard again, he is not reaching his potential, and the Clips won't be able to stick with the top teams.

Baller1
11-30-2012, 08:37 PM
Kinda weird that his stats have actually decreased with the addition of CP3, despite his game evolving. Would've expected the opposite.

Quinnsanity
11-30-2012, 08:43 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think Blake for Love makes sense for both teams? It'll obviously never happen, but imagine CP3 and Love methodically ripping apart every defense, and how awesome would it be to see Rubio and Blake running up and down the court together for the next decade throwing down awesome alley opps?

Hawkeye15
11-30-2012, 08:48 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think Blake for Love makes sense for both teams? It'll obviously never happen, but imagine CP3 and Love methodically ripping apart every defense, and how awesome would it be to see Rubio and Blake running up and down the court together for the next decade throwing down awesome alley opps?

as a Wolves fan, honestly, yes, this makes sense for both teams imho.

That being said, Blake's style of play leads me to fear he will have injuries eventually, so that would hold me back from the trade.

Quinnsanity
11-30-2012, 08:54 PM
as a Wolves fan, honestly, yes, this makes sense for both teams imho.

That being said, Blake's style of play leads me to fear he will have injuries eventually, so that would hold me back from the trade.

Yea that'd be my one worry, but I feel like from both a basketball and PR standpoint it'd be a good trade for both teams. I feel like Minnesota hasn't had a true star personality, someone the city can really rally behind, since like Kirby Puckett. Moss was an ***, KG has never seemed too interested in all of that and that just doesn't seem like AP's personality. On the court Blake and Rubio would immediately create the most entertaining duo in the league and would also really open up each other's games by allowing them to run more. Meanwhile Chris Paul and Kevin Love just seem tailor made for each other. It's a really tempting 2k13 move. I might have to do a franchise and make it.

Clippersfan86
11-30-2012, 09:04 PM
Blake's overall game has improved, but until he starts attacking hard again, he is not reaching his potential, and the Clips won't be able to stick with the top teams.

Bottom line. Despite what surface stats show Blake has improved every year but as you and Sox said.... bottom line is he's become a jumpshooting big who's not aggressive enough this year. He NEEDS to ATTACK the minute he gets the ball and stop passing so much and hesitating.

Also to answer the OP YES Baron was a significantly better fit with Blake. Even Billups is more willing to feed Blake and throw risky lobs than CP3 who wants complete control over the ball at all times.

Blake will be fine but I do agree with the Wolves fans that a Rubio+Blake combo would be absolutely *******. I mean look at what Rubio did with Williams at times.. imagine with Griffin? I'd trade CP3 for Rubio+picks. Also CP3 and Love is a much better fit because he seems to thrive more with dependable shooting bigs who love pick and pop and perimeter shooting.

CP3 holds Blake back and I've been saying it for the last year. He needs to STOP holding the ball for 20 seconds and feeding the chuckers like Butler+Billups+Crawford and trust his bigs way more. He needs to increase the tempo and throw way more lobs. The alley oop dunks REALLY get our bigs fired up. CP3 seems to trust 5th options like Butler more than his other all star.

jam
11-30-2012, 09:13 PM
Bottom line. Despite what surface stats show Blake has improved every year but as you and Sox said.... bottom line is he's become a jumpshooting big who's not aggressive enough this year. He NEEDS to ATTACK the minute he gets the ball and stop passing so much and hesitating.

Also to answer the OP YES Baron was a significantly better fit with Blake. Even Billups is more willing to feed Blake and throw risky lobs than CP3 who wants complete control over the ball at all times.

Blake will be fine but I do agree with the Wolves fans that a Rubio+Blake combo would be absolutely *******. I mean look at what Rubio did with Williams at times.. imagine with Griffin? I'd trade CP3 for Rubio+picks. Also CP3 and Love is a much better fit because he seems to thrive more with dependable shooting bigs who love pick and pop and perimeter shooting.

CP3 holds Blake back and I've been saying it for the last year. He needs to STOP holding the ball for 20 seconds and feeding the chuckers like Butler+Billups+Crawford and trust his bigs way more. He needs to increase the tempo and throw way more lobs. The alley oop dunks REALLY get our bigs fired up. CP3 seems to trust 5th options like Butler more than his other all star.

Great post. Despite my respect for CP3 as one of the game's true winners and great competitors, I find the clips' style of play to be excruciatingly dull.

The clippers are winning games, but they're no longer fun to watch. Sad.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 09:41 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think Blake for Love makes sense for both teams? It'll obviously never happen, but imagine CP3 and Love methodically ripping apart every defense, and how awesome would it be to see Rubio and Blake running up and down the court together for the next decade throwing down awesome alley opps?

Not yet

Clippersfan86
11-30-2012, 09:52 PM
Great post. Despite my respect for CP3 as one of the game's true winners and great competitors, I find the clips' style of play to be excruciatingly dull.

The clippers are winning games, but they're no longer fun to watch. Sad.

I agree. The only excitement I get is when Bledsoe comes into games and our bench starts running fastbreaks with Crawford, Odom, Bledsoe and Barnes. CP3's ball dominance has rendered our bigs far more useless and slows the game down way too much to be enjoyable for me. I'd much rather us have Rondo, Rubio or Westbrook because I don't think the Blake/CP3 thing is suddenly going to click in the future if it hasn't already after more than a season.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 09:54 PM
I agree. The only excitement I get is when Bledsoe comes into games and our bench starts running fastbreaks with Crawford, Odom, Bledsoe and Barnes. CP3's ball dominance has rendered our bigs far more useless and slows the game down way too much to be enjoyable for me. I'd much rather us have Rondo, Rubio or Westbrook because I don't think the Blake/CP3 thing is suddenly going to click in the future if it hasn't already after more than a season.

Why would you rather boost Blakes stats (minuscule gain BTW) than boost the TEAMS stats?

Clippersfan86
11-30-2012, 09:57 PM
Why would you rather boost Blakes stats (minuscule gain BTW) than boost the TEAMS stats?

Because I think long term any championships are going to ride on Blake's development. I think in order for this team to max out potential he NEEDS to be the undisputed go to player and 25 ppg scoring PF he easily can be with a PG who feeds him more.

I don't think CP3 or Crawford being the primary scoring option is as sustainable long term or as vital to the teams success. I want CP3 to hit a few buckets early in games to keep teams honest but the offense should be running through our bigs similar to how Memphis runs it. Our 3 point shooters should be option two not option one like they are now.

DJ's pretty close to unstoppable with the jump hook right now and in the deep post and Blake obviously when he's attacking is pretty much unstoppable offensively (especially with the new, much improved jumper and free throw shooting).

BTW I don't think Blake's development will be minuscule at all. I think with the right coach, right PG and right players around him he can flat out blow up into the 25 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg PF I envision with very good defense.

Clippersfan86
11-30-2012, 10:00 PM
Chronz teams that win have an undisputed go to player. A bread and butter horse. Blake is that guy and the team needs to use him as such. Having a new guy being the top scorer every night is not sustainable and not going to win championships or get deep playoff runs.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 10:11 PM
Because I think long term any championships are going to ride on Blake's development. I think in order for this team to max out potential he NEEDS to be the undisputed go to player and 25 ppg scoring PF he easily can be with a PG who feeds him more.
I agree but not at the expense of the present. The truth is, CP3 is the superior player and any change at his position would represent a downgrade for the TEAM. When and if Blake becomes worthy of that production, it will happen.


I don't think CP3 or Crawford being the primary scoring option is as sustainable long term or as vital to the teams success. I want CP3 to hit a few buckets early in games to keep teams honest but the offense should be running through our bigs similar to how Memphis runs it. Our 3 point shooters should be option two not option one like they are now.
You have this misguided notion that Blake isnt a primary option. As for Crawford, I warned you about him, what happened to valuing his ability to go off for 50? Besides he usually only chucks when Blake is out. CP3 looks to spread it around. I just dont see why you think making a change for the sake of artificially enhancing Blakes superficial averages is what we need. Its laughable if you really think about it. Im not as high on CP3 as I used to be but your getting out of hand with your complaints. I mean show me some tangible evidence to hint at what your trying to say because I just dont see your vision.


DJ's pretty close to unstoppable with the jump hook right now and in the deep post and Blake obviously when he's attacking is pretty much unstoppable offensively (especially with the new, much improved jumper and free throw shooting).
DJ is having a great year offensively and is developing nicely IMO. Dont see what your complaint is there.


BTW I don't think Blake's development will be minuscule at all.
I was referring to your ball dominance theory. Have you seen the numbers?


I think with the right coach, right PG and right players around him he can flat out blow up into the 25 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg PF I envision with very good defense.

I think he has the right PG but your not really telling me much here. Im hoping for all that and more but that doesn't make my opinion any credible. I like to rely moreso on analysis.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 10:14 PM
Chronz teams that win have an undisputed go to player. A bread and butter horse. Blake is that guy and the team needs to use him as such. Having a new guy being the top scorer every night is not sustainable and not going to win championships or get deep playoff runs.

Never said it was, Im arguing against your opinion that the team would benefit from your hypothetical trades for the gains of minimal statistical projection for Blake.

If it were up to me Blake would be doing that already but hes played below his standards so hes not the guy Im going to put faith in. Especially not above CP3

Chronz
11-30-2012, 10:16 PM
For arguments sake, what would be the perfect team for Blake in your eyes?

Clippersfan86
11-30-2012, 10:19 PM
Well I'm all for keeping CP3 and know he's our best player my main issue is he seems unwilling to adapt his playstyle for the benefit of the team. He promised a faster tempo, more Griffin ball and that he would hold the ball less, none of which I've seen outside of a faster tempo the first 8 games or so.

You say you want numbers to prove CP3's hindering the improvement of our bigs but even non Clippers fans watching the games see it and talk about it. It's not just me on a witch hunt for CP3. Last year I was a MASSIVE defender of CP3, I just call it like I see it and my loyalty for a player will never override my loyalty to what's best for the team.

When the offense runs through our bigs with the inside/out game the Clippers are at their best without question.

Quinnsanity
11-30-2012, 11:16 PM
For arguments sake, what would be the perfect team for Blake in your eyes?

As I said before I think Rubio is the perfect point guard for him. I also think he'd thrive next to tweener forward who plays defense like Shawn Marion. I just think he needs to be in an offense that runs more.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 12:03 AM
As I said before I think Rubio is the perfect point guard for him. I also think he'd thrive next to tweener forward who plays defense like Shawn Marion. I just think he needs to be in an offense that runs more.
Yuck, having Rubio would be worse than having Rondo. Why is it that people dont get where Rubio has made his presence felt, its not his offensive game. Hes actually easily replaced offensively its his defense that was top notch. He wouldn't command the same attention, he doesnt space the floor, what makes you think he would make Blake better? Baron Davis is a better example of someone who can make the most of Blake and even that was a minuscule difference IMO.

Marion sounds horrible, a SF who plays his best as a 4-Man with a shaky jumper. No thanks, its not like he was a dominant offensive rebounder so his rebounding prowess would actually be redundent with Blake so it would actually suppress his stats. How is that good?

Method28
12-01-2012, 12:09 AM
Am I seriously reading this? lol
Blake has improved his all around game and is currently banged up. I dont think i want him attempting reckless drives to the lane. We have Bledsoe for that. Blake has somewhat fallen in love with his jumper so far which is kind of ok since now is the time to straighten out the kinks...plus he's been hitting at a good rate.

To think that CP3 is hindering Blakes production...absurd in my eyes. All the attention and proper decisions that CP makes benfits the TEAM which is the goal if im not mistaken.

Blake is going to be fine...he is much more of a well-rounded player now than as a rookie. Everyone slams him for "only being able to dunk" and now hes getting slammed for "not dunking as much" hahaha jesus.

As long as the Clips ride into the playoffs with a healthy team...i could not care less about how many dunks Griff has.

JasonJohnHorn
12-01-2012, 12:29 AM
For one thing, his minutes are down like 5 minutes from his rookie season. I don't know why VDN is only playing him 33 minutes a game. I'd be playing this kid 36-40 a game.

But that said, his per36 numbers have decreased slight in each season (if this season's trend maintains).

I think CP3 is really good for athletic bigs that know how to cut to the basket. He helped Chandler get involved on offense, and he does the same of Jordan. He'd likely play well with Dwight.

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 12:53 AM
I'd trade CP3 for Rondo+Sullinger.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 01:04 AM
As far as Baron and Blake vs CP3 and Blake, that raises an interesting question. Check out the stats:

Blake 2011 (With and Without Baron)

GP MIN PTS FGA FG% 3PA 3P% FTA REB AST PF +/-
On Court 43 1094 22.7 16.7 52% 0.2 50% 8.5 12.2 3.6 2.9 1.2
On Bench 58 1104 20.7 15.7 50% 0.3 40% 7.9 11.7 3.2 2.8 -3.6
Overall 82 3110 21.4 15.9 51% 0.3 29% 8.0 11.4 3.6 2.9 -1.7



Blake 2012 (With and Without CP3)

GP MIN PTS FGA FG% 3PA 3P% FTA REB AST PF +/-
On Court 60 1861 20.7 15.5 55% 0.2 9% 7.0 11.0 2.9 3.3 5.8
On Bench 65 531 20.3 15.1 56% 0.3 20% 7.1 10.2 3.9 2.9 2.4
Overall 66 2392 20.6 15.4 55% 0.2 13% 7.0 10.8 3.2 3.3 5.0



On one hand Blake is playing better than he ever has with Baron but that should be expected with his growth as a player. If you look at how they fared in the minutes without those playmakers two things stand out, that Blake has improved his game on his own and that Baron aided Blakes game at a higher level.

Whereas with CP3 he scores at the same rate regardless and his assist rate raises as well. So hes somewhat inhibited based on those numbers.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 01:05 AM
I'd trade CP3 for Rondo+Sullinger.
Dear god man whats wrong with you?

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 02:15 AM
Dear god man whats wrong with you?

We badly need a quality back up PF with Odom being so crappy. Sully is on his rookie deal and has great upside. Rondo will be a better fit and is on an amazing 11 mill a year contract where as CP3 is going to get nearly double that. The cap difference alone plus letting Odom walk means the Clippers could afford a quality SG such as Monta Ellis or a SF like AK47 in free agency.

Sadds The Gr8
12-01-2012, 02:19 AM
It seemed like he was better as a go-to guy in his rookie year

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 02:27 AM
It seemed like he was better as a go-to guy in his rookie year

The offense ran through him more. More touches, more shots, more usage, more easy buckets.

seikou8
12-01-2012, 02:54 AM
I'd trade CP3 for Rondo+Sullinger.

:facepalm:clips wont make it past the first round with that team

apet8945
12-01-2012, 03:10 AM
We badly need a quality back up PF with Odom being so crappy. Sully is on his rookie deal and has great upside. Rondo will be a better fit and is on an amazing 11 mill a year contract where as CP3 is going to get nearly double that. The cap difference alone plus letting Odom walk means the Clippers could afford a quality SG such as Monta Ellis or a SF like AK47 in free agency.

Well, if you're gonna trade CP3, why wouldn't you just trade him for that quality SG you're talking about and just slide Billups down to his natural position. That would make more sense wouldn't it?

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 03:45 AM
Well, if you're gonna trade CP3, why wouldn't you just trade him for that quality SG you're talking about and just slide Billups down to his natural position. That would make more sense wouldn't it?

No it wouldn't because Billups is 35. This trade gives the Clippers 12+ mill in cap roughly last I checked if they let Odom and the other 1 year deals walk. Remember Kevin Martin will be unrestricted too.

Rondo
Ellis/K Martin
Butler/Barnes
Griffin
DJ

Remember no SG's anywhere near the value of CP3 are in the league currently. Manu, Kobe and Wade are all declining, older and not as good currently.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 03:53 AM
We badly need a quality back up PF with Odom being so crappy. Sully is on his rookie deal and has great upside. Rondo will be a better fit and is on an amazing 11 mill a year contract where as CP3 is going to get nearly double that. The cap difference alone plus letting Odom walk means the Clippers could afford a quality SG such as Monta Ellis or a SF like AK47 in free agency.

Quality SG such as Monta Ellis, a SF whos at his best at the 4? Holy hell man your demented, nothing you said makes any sense. How is Rondo a better fit when its a clear downgrade and only hurts Blakes game.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 03:56 AM
It seemed like he was better as a go-to guy in his rookie year

What made it seem that way? Was it all the losses we accumulated on a poor offense? Was it his lessened productive worth?

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 04:02 AM
Quality SG such as Monta Ellis, a SF whos at his best at the 4? Holy hell man your demented, nothing you said makes any sense. How is Rondo a better fit when its a clear downgrade and only hurts Blakes game.

I normally respect your opinion but it's hard when you don't give me the same respect. You don't have to agree but to say I'm demented for not agreeing with you?

Rondo+Kevin Martin+Sullinger>>>>>>CP3 bro, no matter how you spin it. I'm not sure how big exactly you feel the gap is between Rondo and CP3 but it's not much. Rondo is on the best bargain contract in the NBA and is younger to boot. Rondo is a better fit IN MY OPINION because he doesn't look to be the main scoring option. He's a better fastbreaking PG than CP3. He's better at generating fastbreaks with his defense (when Bledsoe is on the floor look at the fastbreak difference).

Faster tempo, less ball dominant, slightly better passer, better at creating fastbreak opportunities (steals+rebounds) and more willing to defer are all pretty valid reasons why I feel our bigs would thrive a bit more with Rondo. What evidence do I need when this is merely my opinion? How about you prove why Rondo WOULDN'T potentially be a better fit. Especially combined with the other talent I mentioned.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 04:22 AM
I normally respect your opinion but it's hard when you don't give me the same respect. You don't have to agree but to say I'm demented for not agreeing with you?
LOL I normally respect your opinion as well. No harm but yes I think your demented.


Rondo+Kevin Martin+Sullinger>>>>>>CP3 bro, no matter how you spin it. I'm not sure how big exactly you feel the gap is between Rondo and CP3 but it's not much.
I disagree, its a chasm of a difference and Im not as high on the guys your talking about.



Rondo is on the best bargain contract in the NBA and is younger to boot. Rondo is a better fit IN MY OPINION because he doesn't look to be the main scoring option.
So let me get this straight, you think Rondo is a better fit yet when it came time to choose a PG to lead a TEAM OF SUPERSTARS, they went with CP3. The same guy Rondo's own GM tried to trade for. LOL please man, Rondo doesnt look to be the main scoring option because he cant. On top of inconsistent/inefficient scoring, he will inhibit any post sets you try to run. You think CP3 is ball dominant, wait till you get a load of Mr.Assist Whore.


He's a better fastbreaking PG than CP3.
Hes far worse in the halfcourt. Tell me why Im stressing the least important aspect of offensive execution again?


He's better at generating fastbreaks with his defense (when Bledsoe is on the floor look at the fastbreak difference).
Plz, CP3 is superior defensively and if he had KG behind him he would be able to apply more pressure defensively. Have you seen the Celtics when KG isnt on the floor? Rondo's gambling ways can hurt you too.


Faster tempo, less ball dominant, slightly better passer, better at creating fastbreak opportunities (steals+rebounds) and more willing to defer are all pretty valid reasons why I feel our bigs would thrive a bit more with Rondo.
Except hes MORE ball dominant, hes not a more efficient passer, worse in the halfcourt aka the more important aspect of offensive execution, cant space the floor, lacks confidence in the clutch and his rebounding can hurt you unless you have a team devoted to getting back .


What evidence do I need when this is merely my opinion?
I was hoping for something, anything to substantiate your many claims.



How about you prove why Rondo WOULDN'T potentially be a better fit. Especially combined with the other talent I mentioned.
I hope my post adequately summed up my thoughts. Facts are, Rondo doesnt thrive in PnR sets the way CP3 does, never has never will, he can drive and kick with the best of them, too bad we have no outlet shooters, not to mention his constant ball pounding/sloppy passes leads to more turnovers. Its a major reason why he has never led an elite offense, the man cannot score effectively even though he never looks to score. He cant space the floor (this was the reason he wasn't up to sniff when asked to play within Team USA's "team oriented structure"). I thought you wanted Blake to get more touches, hows that gonna work cuz with Rondo hes going to be spoonfed more than told to create, as no team respects his outside shooting in post up sets. Its a skillset redundancy, they occupy the same zones on the court and Rondo cannot play without the ball, his own coach says so.

Rondo has played very well to start the year but Im not going to ignore the last few years just yet.

Check out his teams shot location chart over the years when Rondo isnt in the game. KG is less effective pverall but he gets alot more shots in the paint.
Rondo and Blake would be a disaster, a complete waste of Blakes abilities as a playmaker because it would give him one less outlet option when teams throw doubles at him.

I mean seriously man, think this through. How exactly is having less spacing suppose to help Blakes isolation/post game? Having Rondo would do the EXACT opposite of much of what you said.


Tell me, if Baron was such a better fit , why was the difference between his stat line so negligible? If CP3 is holding Blake back, why was there no difference in his play last year with or without CP3? These are things you have to account for, for me to take your opinion seriously.

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 04:35 AM
If you've watched Rondo in the playoffs you'd know he's very clutch and a killer. You think Rondo is terrible in PNR but CP3 stupidly runs PNR hardly ever with our bigs and significantly less this year than last which is one of my biggest gripes. I'm not saying they are equal either. I'm just starting to doubt Blake and CP3 will become the super duo most of us expected. Chris has been pretty disappointing to me this year despite having more talent around him than ever before.

Kevin Martin and Ellis are borderline all stars, Rondo is half the price of CP3 and has 3 years left and Sullinger or Green would be great depth additions. You mention Rondo's issues spreading the floor but with the weapons we have the full burden won't be on him (similar to Celtics last few years).

Again why do I need stats when I haven't missed a Clippers game for 10 plus years? Blake's improved enough to offset much of the stat difference but Baron and Griffin had more synergy and when non Clippers fans are observing something subtle like that it's most likely valid.

Method28
12-01-2012, 04:40 AM
I normally respect your opinion but it's hard when you don't give me the same respect. You don't have to agree but to say I'm demented for not agreeing with you?

Rondo+Kevin Martin+Sullinger>>>>>>CP3 bro, no matter how you spin it. I'm not sure how big exactly you feel the gap is between Rondo and CP3 but it's not much. Rondo is on the best bargain contract in the NBA and is younger to boot. Rondo is a better fit IN MY OPINION because he doesn't look to be the main scoring option. He's a better fastbreaking PG than CP3. He's better at generating fastbreaks with his defense (when Bledsoe is on the floor look at the fastbreak difference).

Faster tempo, less ball dominant, slightly better passer, better at creating fastbreak opportunities (steals+rebounds) and more willing to defer are all pretty valid reasons why I feel our bigs would thrive a bit more with Rondo. What evidence do I need when this is merely my opinion? How about you prove why Rondo WOULDN'T potentially be a better fit. Especially combined with the other talent I mentioned.

I will have to disagree with you on those points.

First CP3 is hardly looking to be a main scoring option. He actually is often too passive in terms of shooting.

AVG over the past 3 full seasons

CP3
Offensive Win Shares - 8.5
Defensive Rating - 105
Offensive Rating - 123
PER - 24.8
Win Shares - 11.3

Rondo
Offensive Win Shares - 2.7
Defensive Rating - 100
Offensive Rating - 105
PER - 17.9
Win Shares - 7

Put that to go along with Rondo shooting fts with Blake and Jordan and the Clips better be up by 10+ for every game or its FT shooting time

Method28
12-01-2012, 04:47 AM
Lets not forget the amount of turnovers and the offensive efficiency difference between the two. In my opinion...Rondo on this Clippers team would be a disaster waiting to happen. Plus Rondo has a **** attitude.

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 04:48 AM
Method you guys keep blindly zooming in on Rondo vs CP3 when my main point is Rondo PACKAGE and significantly more cap flex with many good free agents to plus the SF and SG hole we have. Billups is 35, Crawford 32 and Vinny is too stupid to play Bledsoe at SG. Butler is 32, Hill 40 and Barnes 31. None of these guys will remain,starting caliber for more than two years. This move sets us up better for the future.

I'm not saying it should be done but I personally am for it if CP3 and Blake don't figure it out and develop more chemistry. There is no natural flow to the duo. Everything seems forced. Watch the Clippers win in Utah last year if you want to see how they should play every night. Both had 30 and 10 and ran PNR to perfection all night. It baffles me that the coaches haven't shown them footage and said do this every single game. If they have then the players need to wake up.

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 04:52 AM
Lets not forget the amount of turnovers and the offensive efficiency difference between the two. In my opinion...Rondo on this Clippers team would be a disaster waiting to happen. Plus Rondo has a **** attitude.


Rondo is a guy you hate unless he's on your team. His attitude problems are greatly exaggerated. Give me that old school fire in a player over the CP3 type that compliments no matter what any day. Nobody is CP3 with avoiding turnovers but Rondo is no Westbrook. As for defense Chronz Rondo is a better man defender as shown by Drtg and Synergy and CP3 actually gambles more than Rondo on D.

Sadds The Gr8
12-01-2012, 05:06 AM
What made it seem that way? Was it all the losses we accumulated on a poor offense? Was it his lessened productive worth?

just the games i was able to watch. He was driving more and looked way more aggressive. now he's taking so much jumpers

Chronz
12-01-2012, 05:29 AM
If you've watched Rondo in the playoffs you'd know he's very clutch and a killer.
Watched him throughout his career, he did much better this year but looking at his entire career including that entire regular season, he usually stops attacking the rim with the same tenacity in the clutch because hes scared of getting to the line and he still overpasses. Im not seeing this very clutch killer your speaking of. That would be CP3.



You think Rondo is terrible in PNR but CP3 stupidly runs PNR hardly ever with our bigs and significantly less this year than last which is one of my biggest gripes.
I dont think Rondo is terrible, I said hes far less effective than CP3 at it because teams will never respect his outside shot and they will concede every outlet jumper by Griffin, what you end up with are two lane cloggers who dont compliment each other.

I agree that I dont like how Blake is being utilized but some of that is on him and how teams are playing him now. Hes not finishing those PnR plays with the same efficiency in spite of him being more selective with them, this leads me to believe hes abit banged up or teams are crowding the paint, thus leading to more kickouts. To his credit, Blake has been finding them. Imagine those same plays being kick outs to Rondo. Pass - CLANG



I'm not saying they are equal either. I'm just starting to doubt Blake and CP3 will become the super duo most of us expected. I honestly dont know what you were expecting.


Chris has been pretty disappointing to me this year despite having more talent around him than ever before.
Same here, but forgive me for not trusting your ability to evaluate talent. I mean is it more talent than he had in New Orleans?


Kevin Martin and Ellis are borderline all stars, Rondo is half the price of CP3 and has 3 years left and Sullinger or Green would be great depth additions.
Look man you say these things but it doesnt make them true. Green is not great depth, hes played horribly this year and has never proven to be worth his contract. I mean your trying to sell me on Rondo being cheaper but also sell me on absorbing Greens contract? Dimentia indeed, Sullinger is an interesting prospect but nothing worth downgrading our PG position so substantially.


You mention Rondo's issues spreading the floor but with the weapons we have the full burden won't be on him (similar to Celtics last few years).
LMFAO what exactly are you referencing? Those Celtics were so inept offensively until they completely inverted their offense by pairing KG and Bass together, 2 players who looked extensively to finish outlet opportunities created by Rondo. These are the kind of comparisons that make me question just how much you understand basketball. I mean the Celtics put KG at the 5 because it gave the team 4 FLOOR SPACERS for Rondo. We are going to have nilch in terms of spacing from our frontcourt and now from our Point of attack with these moves, a truly horrible outlook IMO.


Again why do I need stats when I haven't missed a Clippers game for 10 plus years?
You need facts of any kind. Statistical evidence is pretty important when making projections and quantifiable accusations like "hes holding our bigs back".

Besides its not about how much of the Clippers you watch, but how many games outside of LA you watch and how you back your arguments. I've seen many absurd statements from you in this very thread to last a life time.


Blake's improved enough to offset much of the stat difference but Baron and Griffin had more synergy and when non Clippers fans are observing something subtle like that it's most likely valid.
What stat difference? I really dont see any reason to trust your statistical projections given you talk alot without any sort of insight.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 05:34 AM
just the games i was able to watch. He was driving more and looked way more aggressive. now he's taking so much jumpers
Not trying to ride you but he was more effective in the paint (shooting 63% vs 69 with CP3) and he got there with slightly more regularity and getting blocked less frequently despite seemingly less fast break opportunities given the slower pace. Not to mention his increased efficiency in 1 on 1 sets, so something isnt adding up here.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 05:40 AM
Method you guys keep blindly zooming in on Rondo vs CP3 when my main point is Rondo PACKAGE and significantly more cap flex with many good free agents to plus the SF and SG hole we have. Billups is 35, Crawford 32 and Vinny is too stupid to play Bledsoe at SG. Butler is 32, Hill 40 and Barnes 31. None of these guys will remain,starting caliber for more than two years. This move sets us up better for the future.

I'm not saying it should be done but I personally am for it if CP3 and Blake don't figure it out and develop more chemistry. There is no natural flow to the duo. Everything seems forced. Watch the Clippers win in Utah last year if you want to see how they should play every night. Both had 30 and 10 and ran PNR to perfection all night. It baffles me that the coaches haven't shown them footage and said do this every single game. If they have then the players need to wake up.
One problem, CP3 wont go to Boston, hes already proven that. And if your suggesting we just trade him like that then I would hope you understand what a downgrade it would represent, with no promise of luring a great free agent, particularly now that we've shown we are willing to dump the guy who led us to our best season. And if we absorb guys like Green then were are essentially adding more crap on top of an inferior player, no thanks.

I know Vinny has the rep of a dunce but you have to figure the game is more complicated than that. Maybe Blake is limited, teams are throwing more zones at them, maybe hes trying to get the other guys acclimated knowing that the team has already proven capable of winning alot of regular season games by running a simplistic offense and doesnt want to rely on it as much.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 05:55 AM
Rondo is a guy you hate unless he's on your team. His attitude problems are greatly exaggerated. Give me that old school fire in a player over the CP3 type that compliments no matter what any day. Nobody is CP3 with avoiding turnovers but Rondo is no Westbrook. As for defense Chronz Rondo is a better man defender as shown by Drtg and Synergy and CP3 actually gambles more than Rondo on D.
You mean aside from this year right because thus far CP3 has the better DRTG. Still your probably right on this one but Rondo's DRTG is completely a product of KG as it sinks when hes not on the floor. CP3 has no such relationship with any of our players.

RAPM has them at identical levels the last few years.

But Synergy?


Last year Rondo allowed .74PPP overall, .58 in Isolation, .71 in PnR sets, and thats with the best PnR hedger in the game
Year before: .79, .67, .81 respectively



VS CP3
.8PPP overall, .67 in isolation and .8 in PnR with a poor defensive structure behind him. DJ is much improved but Blake was still green and neither are KG.


Still I suppose the evidence is in your favor

Chronz
12-01-2012, 06:08 AM
Why do you make a thread to prop up J-Crossover only to bash him now? I think your too emotionally driven when it comes to this topic.

Only thing we agree on, Blake and Bledsoe need to play alot more together. Even throw CP3 in there. Blake has thrived more this season with those fast breaking opportunities, which is why I dont really see the need for Rondo when Bledso can approximate that far more than Rondo could execute a half court offense to CP3's level of efficiency. Dont forget what wins in the playoffs.

If Rondo were the better fit because he doesn't look to score, why wouldnt Team USA want him to set up shots for all their stars? Why did Boston want CP3? Why cant Rondo lead an effective offense despite world class shooters, why is his efficiency lacking despite his smaller load? Too many holes to buy your theory.

Lakers4life08
12-01-2012, 07:33 AM
Rubio>>>>Paul

With Rubio over Paul,Blake would be leading scorer and most dominant Power forward in the NBA

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 01:14 PM
Why do you make a thread to prop up J-Crossover only to bash him now? I think your too emotionally driven when it comes to this topic.

Only thing we agree on, Blake and Bledsoe need to play alot more together. Even throw CP3 in there. Blake has thrived more this season with those fast breaking opportunities, which is why I dont really see the need for Rondo when Bledso can approximate that far more than Rondo could execute a half court offense to CP3's level of efficiency. Dont forget what wins in the playoffs.

If Rondo were the better fit because he doesn't look to score, why wouldnt Team USA want him to set up shots for all their stars? Why did Boston want CP3? Why cant Rondo lead an effective offense despite world class shooters, why is his efficiency lacking despite his smaller load? Too many holes to buy your theory.

Naw I love Crawford. I never bashed him? My issue is that CP3 is deferring to him and depending on him WAY too much along with Butler and our other wings. The offense needs to run through our bigs FIRST then our perimeter players. We aren't a good enough shooting team to be playing this iso, 3 point shot crap every time down the floor.

Sadds The Gr8
12-01-2012, 02:07 PM
Not trying to ride you but he was more effective in the paint (shooting 63% vs 69 with CP3) and he got there with slightly more regularity and getting blocked less frequently despite seemingly less fast break opportunities given the slower pace. Not to mention his increased efficiency in 1 on 1 sets, so something isnt adding up here.

maybe im focusing on point and rebounding totals too much then because I remember him having alot more efficient 30 and 40 point games back in 2010

Chronz
12-01-2012, 02:19 PM
Naw I love Crawford. I never bashed him?
My mistake, it sounded like you were blaming him for Blake not getting enough touches. Because you do realize hes the one eating up most of the possessions on the team right. Not that it seems to effect Blake much, hes been off regardless.



My issue is that CP3 is deferring to him and depending on him WAY too much along with Butler and our other wings. The offense needs to run through our bigs FIRST then our perimeter players. We aren't a good enough shooting team to be playing this iso, 3 point shot crap every time down the floor.
I think your underestimating just how many more post attempts our bigs are getting and how it has led to some of those 3's. With DJ's improvements, our # of actual post up shots for the team is higher than it was last year.

I honestly dont know what more you want, do you want more clear outs for Blake, more post-ups? You do know its not as easy as just force feeding post plays right? Your all over the place with what you project for Blake in this thread but can we atleast clear up how you want the offense to look?

Because to be honest, if its what I think you want, for us to feature Blake on the block in more stagnant sets, then we would be worse for it with Blakes current level of play. His stats are down across the board, and BTW if your really suggesting its a result of him not having the right PG then your doing his game a disservice. Your basically hes saying hes more dependent on who he plays with than Amare Stoudemire was with Nash. Id rather believe hes hurt and thus hasn't been entrusted with the same responsibility otherwise hes slacking on the boards for no reason other than to pout. Because honestly hes getting alot of possessions, hes our most prolific possession waster and he constantly takes too long to react to plays that arent lobs. Hes played like crap and I really wish you would just man up to it instead of looking for a scapegoat because it really only exposes Blake.

Anyways, that tangent aside, we would be losing alot more if we force fed Blake the way he has played. Like you said, hes been at his best when on the run in transition. Our transition offense has thrived, but why is his halfcourt game slacking?

Check out the numbers for the last 2 years:

2012
Isolation: 13.4% (.86) #2
Spot-Up: 22.% (.98) #7
Post-Ups: 8.9% (.82) #19
PnR (BallHandler): 15.3% (.86) #2
(Roller): 5.6% (1.02) #6 :clap:

Transition: 12% (1.1) #24
Offensive rebounding: 5.9% (1.03) #20
Cuts off the ball : 6.2% (1.24) #6

OVR: .93 (6th)

2013
Isolation: 15.5% (.83) #9
Spot-Up: 18.8% (1.09) #4
Post-Ups: 10.8% (.86) #10
PnR (BallHandler): 12.0% (.85) #5
(Roller): 3.7% (.84) #24 :facepalm:

Transition: 14.4% (1.19) #8
Offensive rebounding: 5.7% (1.1) #13
Cuts off the ball : 6.4% (1.2) #13

OVR: .95PPP (6th)


So yes, Iso attempts are up but thats what Crawford was suppose to bring remember. Thats supposedly what our team needed and in fairness to him, hes been excellent, I want him to reign it in and feature Blake alil more but at the same time Blake hasn't earned any more looks.

Check out Blake's statline (Ive bolded the interesting aspects)


2012
Isolation: 10.1% (.78) #95
Spot-Up: 9.2% (.80) #248
Post-Ups: 33.% (.83) #71
PnR Roller: 14.6% (1.08) #39 :clap:

Transition: 9.8% (1.42) #14
Offensive rebounding: 8.2% (1.12) :speechless:
Cuts off the ball : 9% (1.43) #16


OVR: .99PPP





2013
Isolation: 12.5% (.63) #46
Spot-Up: 11.4% (.88) #106
Post-Ups: 35.% (.85) #26
PnR Roller: 10.4% (.83) #34 :cry:

Transition: 12.5% (1.49) #4
Offensive rebounding: 4.6% (.92) :facepalm:
Cuts off the ball : 5.7% (.88)

OVR: .89




So lets review the changes (Aside from minutes, which only Vinny and fouls control) focusing solely on his possession usage. Blake has gotten more post feeds (consistent with our 2 bigs getting more post ups), hes gotten more isolation attempts (while scoring at a drastically lower rate) and his finishes in the PnR have been stifled both in efficiency and usage. So whats the problem? Why is he so inefficient this year compared to last? Surprsingly it has nothing to do with CP3 and everything to do with his instincts/athleticism. Hes taking too long to make his move when hes not creating on his own, his hands have been terrible this year too.


The man isnt crashing the offensive glass and when he does his finishes are FAR less effective than a year ago.

I mean is CP3 also responsible for his lack of assertiveness? I think its time you faced reality and started pointing the finger at the person responsible.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 02:25 PM
maybe im focusing on point and rebounding totals too much then because I remember him having alot more efficient 30 and 40 point games back in 2010
Definitely, the league was anemic offensively because of the lockout, it dragged numbers down league wide so the fact that he improved at all was a great sign.


Also you were saying he was more of a go to option right? Well I usually take that to mean a player who is given the ball and asked to create. Maybe your talking about how often he was spoonfed and featured vs rotating defenses. Because depending on which version of the Clippers you saw his rookie year could lead to different answers. When he was with Baron he got more lobs and such but I didnt think you meant that he was a better go to option because he got to play with Baron, I thought you were talking about his ability to create for himself and others. That has definitely improved.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 02:26 PM
Rubio>>>>Paul

With Rubio over Paul,Blake would be leading scorer and most dominant Power forward in the NBA
And the Clippers would suffer how many more losses? Why does Rubio not have this impact with his stud PF?

kylem4711
12-01-2012, 03:00 PM
I tried, but wasn't able to make it through all of the cronz posts. really wish you would pare it down from time to time.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 03:27 PM
pare

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Chronz good stats and I respect the time you put into them. If you've seen me post on this topic more on the Clippers forum and here you'd see I actually have blasted Blake every other game for being too passive. That being said CP3 is the veteran leader, best player, superstar, floor general and POINT GUARD. He commands the floor so I feel he can do a lot more to get our bigs involved.

Blake being passive is likely due to the injury issues and him being mentally weaker than I thought. He seems to be so focused on proving critics wrong that he's improved all of the knocks tremendously BUT neglected his strengths in the process. His rebounding is down because he's shooting too many damn jumpers. His scoring is down because jumpers are ALWAYS a lower percentage shot than a dunk or rim attack and he's getting less free throws.

He needs to understand that the shot should be secondary to space the floor a bit and NEVER his MAIN weapon. He's not Dirk, he needs to be Barkley/Malone. Go hard in the paint but be capable of hitting shots, never depending on it.

Cracka2HI!
12-01-2012, 07:31 PM
WOW, a lot to read here. My only comment on the Rondo for CP3 talk is...LOL! I don't think Blake has regressed. He is being too passive and is banged up right now. He's not getting the ball in perfect position enough. He gets it close to where he wants but has not been able to just turn and attack the rim enough. He ends up passing it out most times. I think he'll be just fine, but he does look to be struggling.

To answer to question of the OP. Blake is certainly better than his rookie year. That team didn't win much and it was all about him. Everyone on the team was looking for him. Now everyone is looking to make the best play...including him.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 08:09 PM
WOW, a lot to read here. My only comment on the Rondo for CP3 talk is...LOL! I don't think Blake has regressed. He is being too passive and is banged up right now. He's not getting the ball in perfect position enough. He gets it close to where he wants but has not been able to just turn and attack the rim enough. He ends up passing it out most times. I think he'll be just fine, but he does look to be struggling.

To answer to question of the OP. Blake is certainly better than his rookie year. That team didn't win much and it was all about him. Everyone on the team was looking for him. Now everyone is looking to make the best play...including him.

You already know the gist of my post as you echoed my same thoughts.

CP3 isnt the reason for Blake's struggles, most of what CN was complaining about were either outright fallacies or unsubstantiated. Blake is actually getting more post touches and more drives, hes just not playing as much minutes and hes not finishing as effectively as he did the last 2 years. Either teams have learned how to take away his forays to the rim or hes noticeably less athletic and unable to exploit collapsing defenses.

I dont know what people are expecting but for him to regress is a troubling sign if its not a result of injury. What it implies if hes not just hurting is that hes not the franchise player we thought he was. If hes so utterly dependent on the playmaking of others then we have it harder than I imagined.

And yes the Rondo talk was ridiculous for many reasons I wont rehash now.

Chronz
12-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Chronz good stats and I respect the time you put into them. If you've seen me post on this topic more on the Clippers forum and here you'd see I actually have blasted Blake every other game for being too passive. That being said CP3 is the veteran leader, best player, superstar, floor general and POINT GUARD. He commands the floor so I feel he can do a lot more to get our bigs involved.

Blake being passive is likely due to the injury issues and him being mentally weaker than I thought. He seems to be so focused on proving critics wrong that he's improved all of the knocks tremendously BUT neglected his strengths in the process. His rebounding is down because he's shooting too many damn jumpers. His scoring is down because jumpers are ALWAYS a lower percentage shot than a dunk or rim attack and he's getting less free throws.

He needs to understand that the shot should be secondary to space the floor a bit and NEVER his MAIN weapon. He's not Dirk, he needs to be Barkley/Malone. Go hard in the paint but be capable of hitting shots, never depending on it.

Seems to me CP3 is doing his part (our bigs are getting more touches than last year), what Id like to see from him is more selfishness but I guess hes trying to get everyone else going while saving his legs for the playoffs.

Your rebounding point is true, guess he cant be like Love and be both an outlet option and dominant rebounder. I hope your wrong because thats a pitifully low rate even considering his jumpshot tendency. Hes not taking as many jumpers as a guy like Dirk did, yet they are posting comparable(prime) offensive rebounding rates. Im hoping its part of a bigger strat by Vinny to get back on D but you gotta think Blake has the athleticism to crash and get back alil more.

Hes not finishing in the paint with same efficiency so that gives me hope that hes just not up to speed yet.

I would be hoping for that too, you dont want your franchise guy to be this dependent on the system/teammates to exonerate his lack of production.

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 08:59 PM
Seems to me CP3 is doing his part (our bigs are getting more touches than last year), what Id like to see from him is more selfishness but I guess hes trying to get everyone else going while saving his legs for the playoffs.

Your rebounding point is true, guess he cant be like Love and be both an outlet option and dominant rebounder. I hope your wrong because thats a pitifully low rate even considering his jumpshot tendency. Hes not taking as many jumpers as a guy like Dirk did, yet they are posting comparable(prime) offensive rebounding rates. Im hoping its part of a bigger strat by Vinny to get back on D but you gotta think Blake has the athleticism to crash and get back alil more.

Hes not finishing in the paint with same efficiency so that gives me hope that hes just not up to speed yet.

I would be hoping for that too, you dont want your franchise guy to be this dependent on the system/teammates to exonerate his lack of production.

Yea I gotta admit Love is pretty special to be taking long shots so regularly AND being an elite rebounder (the best probably). Maybe Blake just isn't putting in 110 percent like he should. I remember rookie Blake had a legendary motor like others have pointed out. Last two years his motor is declining more and more which is troubling. I miss the Blake that NEVER quit and went all out every play.

I understand he needed to learn to pace himself a bit but not to this degree.

Cracka2HI!
12-01-2012, 10:19 PM
You already know the gist of my post as you echoed my same thoughts.

CP3 isnt the reason for Blake's struggles, most of what CN was complaining about were either outright fallacies or unsubstantiated. Blake is actually getting more post touches and more drives, hes just not playing as much minutes and hes not finishing as effectively as he did the last 2 years. Either teams have learned how to take away his forays to the rim or hes noticeably less athletic and unable to exploit collapsing defenses.

I dont know what people are expecting but for him to regress is a troubling sign if its not a result of injury. What it implies if hes not just hurting is that hes not the franchise player we thought he was. If hes so utterly dependent on the playmaking of others then we have it harder than I imagined.

And yes the Rondo talk was ridiculous for many reasons I wont rehash now.I definitely think he's not right, but I think the bigger issue is he is struggling to use all of his skills on offense. He has more post moves and is shooting the mid range shot well. I don't think he is desisive when he gets the ball. He's thinking too much. He just needs to get comfortable with his new skill set....I hope. If not we aren't as good of as team moving forward. His lacking of rebounding is also troubling.

I agree that CP3 needs to be more selfish. If Blake's not going we really need him over 20. We had too many games where Blake had 14 and CP3 had 16 during the losing streak. One of those guys needs to be around 25 every night.

D-Leethal
12-01-2012, 10:24 PM
No, it was just less overrated.

kylem4711
12-01-2012, 10:50 PM
pare
that not the correct spelling?

Clippersfan86
12-01-2012, 11:55 PM
THIS is exactly how the Clippers offense should run every night. Through the bigs with our guards slashing all game and swinging the ball on the wing.

Cracka2HI!
12-02-2012, 02:24 PM
THIS is exactly how the Clippers offense should run every night. Through the bigs with our guards slashing all game and swinging the ball on the wing.

I didn't see the game, but this could also be another reason Blake #'s are down. The team wins by 35 and Blake score 14. Not saying we are killing teams every night, we are not. However it seems the team plays best when everyone is scoring. Team had 7 players in double figures and that's without Chauncey doing it!

Chronz
12-02-2012, 02:47 PM
that not the correct spelling?

Dont know what that means

Chronz
12-02-2012, 02:48 PM
I didn't see the game, but this could also be another reason Blake #'s are down. The team wins by 35 and Blake score 14. Not saying we are killing teams every night, we are not. However it seems the team plays best when everyone is scoring. Team had 7 players in double figures and that's without Chauncey doing it!

No. Thats not how stats work, its not about raw accumulation.

b@llhog24
12-02-2012, 03:13 PM
Dont know what that means

He wants you to be more concise. "Dumb it down" if you will.

Chronz
12-02-2012, 03:15 PM
THIS is exactly how the Clippers offense should run every night. Through the bigs with our guards slashing all game and swinging the ball on the wing.

I honestly have no idea what your talking about. This is because I dont see what you were complaining about before, you never responded to my lengthy questions and your not saying much now. To me this is exactly how we were playing during the winning streak that you said was unsustainable. Odom showing up made it alot more convincing of a victory


Anyways, what do you mean run through the bigs? Like do you mean giving them the ball and having them dictate things because your not watching the same basketball I am. Odom did that with his assist total but that cant be what you mean by our bigs because you couldn't possibly expect that from Odom on a game to game basis, certainly not this early.

Our bigs went 3/10 in the post, which was mostly DJ but I was fine with all of those touches. In fact maybe alil more from Blake but my point is it wasnt why we blew them out.

The majority of our spot-up 3's were created by guard play. Even Odom was playing like a guard.

What about Isolation sets? Blake went 3-6, all 3 makes were on jumpshots. The aspect of his game you were complaining he should stop focusing on. So which is it. Do you want him to keep shooting jumpers or do you like the way he played last night? Because his ratio was like 4 post up fga (not sure of the touches right now) and 6 iso moves. 4 of those 6 isolations were jumpers he connected on 2. The other 2 were drives to the rim where he probably got fouled but didn't get the call on 1.

To me thats like a 50/50 split of jumpers and paint forays/postups. Hes been mixing it up like this all year, the results have been inconsistent, which is why your so up and down on this team.

Cracka2HI!
12-02-2012, 03:15 PM
No. Thats not how stats work, its not about raw accumulation.

I understand that, I was only talking about stats like PPG and RPG. I was responding to CF86, not you LOL! A lot of times the team doesn't need him to score. It's funny what winning a couple games does to the psyche of a fan. In Blake case I think it's easy to ignore the stats/facts and just look at how he looks playing basketball. As long as we are winning...

Chronz
12-02-2012, 03:17 PM
He wants you to be more concise. "Dumb it down" if you will.

Conversation got bogged down by vague viewpoints and false statements. Clearing out the lies and/or misconceptions takes more words. They arent meant for anyone but the person Im debating with.

I give the cliff notes version afterwards. With a small post that follows it.

b@llhog24
12-02-2012, 03:22 PM
Conversation got bogged down by vague viewpoints and false statements. Clearing out the lies and/or misconceptions takes more words. They arent meant for anyone but the person Im debating with.

I give the cliff notes version afterwards. With a small post that follows it.

I enjoyed it for whatever its worth. :shrug:

Chronz
12-02-2012, 03:24 PM
I understand that, I was only talking about stats like PPG and RPG. A lot of times the team doesn't need him to score. It's funny what winning a couple games does to the psyche of a fan. In Blake case I think it's easy to ignore the stats/facts and just look at how he looks playing basketball. As long as we are winning...
I see, Im sorry I just dont understand the point.

Im not a fan of putting myself into the mind of a casual fan whos sole understanding of stats are 2 numbers. Thats like beneath a casual fan actually because even the newbies to the game should be able to incorporate simple concepts like FG% and MPG.

NetsPaint
12-02-2012, 06:30 PM
Interesting and great posts. Didn't expect so much of it.

How do all of you think Blake/the Clippers would have done in their first season if Gordon didn't get hurt? Beneficial to Griffin's/Clippers' season/future for development? Do you think they could have had a much better record? It would have been tough to make the Playoffs, but they were making a push.

Would you have liked to see them keep Gordon instead of the trade with Chris Paul before (they would have still had Billups and Bledsoe). I'm asking before you knew what you know now of Gordon's injuries.

Clippersfan86
12-02-2012, 06:31 PM
Interesting and great post. Didn't expect so much of it.

How do all of you think Blake/the Clippers would have done in their first season if Gordon didn't get hurt? Beneficial to Griffin's/Clippers' season/future for development? Do you think they could have had a much better record? It would have been tough to make the Playoffs, but they were making a push.

Gordon and Griffin played very well together. Both were averaging 23 ppg at one point and they played an inside/out game fantastically. If Gordon had been healthy the Clippers would of grabbed the 8 seed IMO.