PDA

View Full Version : Whats PSD's definition of "Talent"



nickdymez
11-30-2012, 03:06 PM
I've been hearing this word thrown out ever since Lebron said he was taking his to south beach. But what exactly does it mean? Are "Talent" and "Skills" synonomous?

b@llhog24
11-30-2012, 03:07 PM
No.

RonE Coleman
11-30-2012, 03:10 PM
Talent for me is skills, technique, post moves, footwork, etc. (Guys like Jordan in his 30s, Kobe, Pierce come to mind) (Even look at guys like Andre Miller, he is no where near a physical specimen but has had a good career by being smarter than other people and having a lot of technique.

Lebron is talented but relies on freak athleticism and raw ability. Its impossible to stop a 6'9 275 man driving to the rim at full speed without fouling him. That's not talent, that is simply being a Freak of nature.

b@llhog24
11-30-2012, 03:13 PM
"Talent"



1) the natural endowments of a person

2) a special often athletic, creative, or artistic aptitude

"Skills"


1) the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance

2) dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical tasks

3) a learned power of doing something competently : a developed aptitude or ability.

Merriam-Webster

nickdymez
11-30-2012, 03:14 PM
Talent for me is skills, technique, post moves, footwork, etc. (Guys like Jordan in his 30s, Kobe, Pierce come to mind) (Even look at guys like Andre Miller, he is no where near a physical specimen but has had a good career by being smarter than other people and having a lot of technique.

Lebron is talented but relies on freak athleticism and raw ability. Its impossible to stop a 6'9 275 man driving to the rim at full speed without fouling him. That's not talent, that is simply being a Freak of nature.

This is why i ask.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 03:17 PM
"Talent"



"Skills"



Merriam-Webster

What if your skill is aided by your talent? Like Bird has great court vision, I would say thats a talent but others say the art of passing is a skill too. What then?

nickdymez
11-30-2012, 03:18 PM
What if your skill is aided by your talent? Like Bird has great court vision, I would say thats a talent but others say the art of passing is a skill too. What then?

This.

Money_23
11-30-2012, 03:27 PM
What if your skill is aided by your talent? Like Bird has great court vision, I would say thats a talent but others say the art of passing is a skill too. What then?

every player needs a combination of talent and skill to be at least a competent player. You can't find out whether you are talented at something if you don't put forth any effort in it in the first place. Both are very closely connected.

b@llhog24
11-30-2012, 03:28 PM
What if your skill is aided by your talent? Like Bird has great court vision, I would say thats a talent but others say the art of passing is a skill too. What then?

Court vision is a talent imo because it's innate. I'm not so concerned with your first premise because obviously having a skills + talent would make you a more productive/effective player. Players like Tmac, Vince, Hakeem are great examples of this. I remember you saying something along the lines of "if Gerald Green (an insanely talented individual) ever gets a handle (which is a skill) then it's over for the league." I was just answering the OP's question in a general sense.

torocan
11-30-2012, 03:29 PM
What if your skill is aided by your talent? Like Bird has great court vision, I would say thats a talent but others say the art of passing is a skill too. What then?

Court vision is a talent. Understanding that vision is a knowledge based skill. Passing is a physical skill.

One defines the ability to see what is happening, another is the comprehension to assess a situation and make correct decisions, while the last is the physical response to those assessments.

Talent in the NBA is too often measured in physical attributes (hops, speed, strength, lateral movement, etc), and not enough credit is given to non-physical attributes (heart, competitive spirit, court vision, and leadership).

Nash has no Hops, mediocre speed, average strength. It's the non-physical attributes that make him special.

Unfortunately, the non-physical attributes are harder to see.

And people often confuse physical attributes with skill based attributes. Like the ability to shoot a free throw is more about skill than athleticism. With correct form, decent eyesight and sufficient practice anyone can become a good free throw shooter.

This applies as well to most forms of jump shooting.

While there are skills that are heavily dependent on athleticism. Dunking, first step, speed down the floor all apply here, however once you reach a certain threshold, the benefits of additional athleticism becomes somewhat marginal. For example, once you can run faster than most other players on the break, how much does it really benefit you to run 20% faster than that? Or if your eyes are good enough to see the hoop clearly, how much more would a sniper's vision really help you on a free throw?

It makes one wonder how many potentially gifted NBA players get missed because they don't jump high enough....

Minimal
11-30-2012, 03:30 PM
I knew this thread will come out sooner or later. I have already answered the question in top 10 talent thread.

Talent=Skill

JasonJohnHorn
11-30-2012, 03:30 PM
Here is what Webster's says:

tal·ent (tlnt)
n.
1. A marked innate ability, as for artistic accomplishment. See Synonyms at ability.
2.
a. Natural endowment or ability of a superior quality.
b. A person or group of people having such ability: The company makes good use of its talent.
3. A variable unit of weight and money used in ancient Greece, Rome, and the Middle East.

It would seem using this definition, talent would speak to innate talent, like athleticism. In that case, passing and shooting would be seen as skills, but size, stregnth and athleticism would be talent.

Ebbs
11-30-2012, 03:46 PM
They aren't synonymous or seperate

ManRam
11-30-2012, 03:47 PM
People used to bash LeBron because they said he was really only good because of his athleticism and natural talent, rather than skill. They certainly are not synonymous...but rarely is it completely one or the other. They usually compliment each other or even fuel the other. They often do mean the same thing.

But there is a difference

However, I personally don't see why we care whether someone is successful because of talent or skill. Who cares HOW you get it done? It doesn't matter. If you're great, you're great. Doesn't matter how it gets done. LeBron isn't any less the player because he is an exceptionally athletically talented. Results are all that matter.

lol, please
11-30-2012, 04:07 PM
I've been hearing this word thrown out ever since Lebron said he was taking his to south beach. But what exactly does it mean? Are "Talent" and "Skills" synonomous?

Threads like this are why the NBA forum is trash. Who gives a rat's rear end what "PSD's" definition of a word is. The only definition that should concern you are anyone else is the one found in any credible dictionary of the English language. Because that's what the actual word means. Words don't mean what you want them to mean or what's convenient for you to have it mean. In the time it took you to make this a thread, you could have looked up definitions in several credible dictionaries and educated yourself further. Instead you made a worthless thread because you feel the need for attention or want to troll.

A recommendation to people like this guy: Next time you have a genuine question about what something means, look it up yourself. If you have issues with what the answer is and feel compelled to discuss it further, then make a thread. This isn't a classroom nor a library, we aren't here to educate you for free. This is just beyond ridiculous. Let me go make a thread in the NFL forum now: What does "exasperation" mean to you? To me it means, "hungry". I will even add a poll.

What a worthless thread.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 04:30 PM
I have one more question, talent doesnt have to be a god given ability right?

Is strength a talent? Thats something you can work on or something you are born with.

The guy in my sig was one of the strongest men of his era and he never worked out, but other guys put in the work to get to that level.

If both are equally strong then both are equally talented right?

Alayla
11-30-2012, 04:39 PM
Talent is natural ablitlys any given player might have Speed quickness Vertical Balance Agility.
then there are skills Ball handling post moves footwork awareness Instinct shooting
Skills can easly be trained and improved infinitely. Talent is mostly natural sure hard work may slightly improve these but your body has limits as fan as how much talent u have regardless of what shape your in.

Alayla
11-30-2012, 04:41 PM
I have one more question, talent doesnt have to be a god given ability right?

Is strength a talent? Thats something you can work on or something you are born with.

The guy in my sig was one of the strongest men of his era and he never worked out, but other guys put in the work to get to that level.

If both are equally strong then both are equally talented right?

Yes Talent in it of itself can be worked for and attained but there is still a physical limit the man in your Sig had he worked out would have had a much higher ceiling than any other player working out alot of talent is genetic but not all of it

nickdymez
11-30-2012, 05:03 PM
Threads like this are why the NBA forum is trash. Who gives a rat's rear end what "PSD's" definition of a word is. The only definition that should concern you are anyone else is the one found in any credible dictionary of the English language. Because that's what the actual word means. Words don't mean what you want them to mean or what's convenient for you to have it mean. In the time it took you to make this a thread, you could have looked up definitions in several credible dictionaries and educated yourself further. Instead you made a worthless thread because you feel the need for attention or want to troll.

A recommendation to people like this guy: Next time you have a genuine question about what something means, look it up yourself. If you have issues with what the answer is and feel compelled to discuss it further, then make a thread. This isn't a classroom nor a library, we aren't here to educate you for free. This is just beyond ridiculous. Let me go make a thread in the NFL forum now: What does "exasperation" mean to you? To me it means, "hungry". I will even add a poll.

What a worthless thread.

:facepalm:

dh144498
11-30-2012, 05:17 PM
Threads like this are why the NBA forum is trash. Who gives a rat's rear end what "PSD's" definition of a word is. The only definition that should concern you are anyone else is the one found in any credible dictionary of the English language. Because that's what the actual word means. Words don't mean what you want them to mean or what's convenient for you to have it mean. In the time it took you to make this a thread, you could have looked up definitions in several credible dictionaries and educated yourself further. Instead you made a worthless thread because you feel the need for attention or want to troll.

A recommendation to people like this guy: Next time you have a genuine question about what something means, look it up yourself. If you have issues with what the answer is and feel compelled to discuss it further, then make a thread. This isn't a classroom nor a library, we aren't here to educate you for free. This is just beyond ridiculous. Let me go make a thread in the NFL forum now: What does "exasperation" mean to you? To me it means, "hungry". I will even add a poll.

What a worthless thread.

settle down. It's an internet "discussion" forum and this thread is somewhat basketball related. Even if it's not, you don't have to make a scene.

Sadds The Gr8
11-30-2012, 05:22 PM
to me, skill is just basketball qualities, like shooting, dribbling, passing, defending, etc...

and talent is athletic ability along with having skills, or having the potential to become good/great at one of those skills.

Sadds The Gr8
11-30-2012, 05:22 PM
dp

Raps08-09 Champ
11-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Natural abilities.

nickdymez
11-30-2012, 05:30 PM
settle down. It's an internet "discussion" forum and this thread is somewhat basketball related. Even if it's not, you don't have to make a scene.

It is. Ever since Lebron said "taking his talents to south beach", the word "talent" took on its own basketball meaning that to me, has never been clearly defined in basketball terms. That guy who took the time to write a 2 paragragh response as to why this is a stupid topic is obviously mad about something. He mad.

Money_23
11-30-2012, 05:42 PM
It is. Ever since Lebron said "taking his talents to south beach", the word "talent" took on its own basketball meaning that to me, has never been clearly defined in basketball terms. That guy who took the time to write a 2 paragragh response as to why this is a stupid topic is obviously mad about something. He mad.

when you strictly compare talent and skill, they are different things. But when taken into the context of a sentence like "i'm taking my talents to south beach," or "that guy is an incredibly talented player," i don't think they are really putting a comparison on whether he's more talented or more skilled. It's just a saying for a really really good player in general. Rarely do I ever hear "that guy is incredibly 'skilled'" when giving them a compliment instead of saying "talented".

ThuglifeJ
11-30-2012, 05:50 PM
Talent for me is skills, technique, post moves, footwork, etc. (Guys like Jordan in his 30s, Kobe, Pierce come to mind) (Even look at guys like Andre Miller, he is no where near a physical specimen but has had a good career by being smarter than other people and having a lot of technique.

Lebron is talented but relies on freak athleticism and raw ability. Its impossible to stop a 6'9 275 man driving to the rim at full speed without fouling him. That's not talent, that is simply being a Freak of nature.


This.

there should be a like button on PSD so you know who's post have general opinion

nickdymez
11-30-2012, 05:52 PM
when you strictly compare talent and skill, they are different things. But when taken into the context of a sentence like "i'm taking my talents to south beach," or "that guy is an incredibly talented player," i don't think they are really putting a comparison on whether he's more talented or more skilled. It's just a saying for a really really good player in general. Rarely do I ever hear "that guy is incredibly 'skilled'" when giving them a compliment instead of saying "talented".

Agreed. I have been hearing (especially from Hubey Browns old ***) lines like "That guy is an incredible talent". I'm a grown *** man and all, but that line confuses me in the context of describing a player. Im used to hearing "That guy is incredibly skilled".

Sactown
11-30-2012, 06:05 PM
Agreed. I have been hearing (especially from Hubey Browns old ***) lines like "That guy is an incredible talent". I'm a grown *** man and all, but that line confuses me in the context of describing a player. Im used to hearing "That guy is incredibly skilled".

I think of talent as a natural ability, but that doesn't mean talents can't be developed through hard work. Like some players are just naturally talented at scoring the ball and make it look effortless, while other players have to work extremely hard on it.

my best examples would be Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan...

Jordan is clearly extremely talented and makes everything look effortless, while Larry Bird himself admits that it took hours and hours in the gym to develop the skills to be able to perform the way he does.. Not saying Michael Jordan didn't work hard, but Bird clearly worked on his skills and would not have made it into the NBA with his natural abilities like MJ would have.

Another comparison is Lebron and Duncan.
Duncan is MR. fundamental for a reason, his skills are highly refined while Lebron James has a massive amount of god given talent, Lebron definitely has developed his skills a large amount to get where he is, but he came into the league very raw and was overwhelming purely because of his natural talents.

My final example would be The Gasol Brothers and Gerald Green.
Gerald Green is a high flying physical specimen with god given talents, while the Gasol brothers are extremely skilled. Green hasn't been able to succeed in the league because his skills are refined enough and has just gotten by with his freakish athleticism, while the Gasol brothers have made a career out of pure skill.

Not saying that my answer is the only answer to the question, but this is my take on it

Beltrans Mole
11-30-2012, 06:15 PM
I consider talent to be more natural than anything. Lebron James has freakish abilities, which some would label raw talent. Guys like Paul Pierce, Kobe, etc. have amazing skills. They can't do the things Lebron does athletically, but they've harnessed their skills and have made careers doing so. Now Lebron has both talent and skill, which is why he's the best on the planet. This is all relatively speaking, of course. Every guy mentioned is insanely talented AND skilled. It's much easier to use examples on everyday people.

ThuglifeJ
11-30-2012, 07:42 PM
I have one more question, talent doesnt have to be a god given ability right?

Is strength a talent? Thats something you can work on or something you are born with.

The guy in my sig was one of the strongest men of his era and he never worked out, but other guys put in the work to get to that level.

If both are equally strong then both are equally talented right?

I think it definently comes off as more talented when it looks more natural. Like when I play some moves just come naturally without me even thinkin too much. But you also learn new things, pickup from observing then trying them out.

gotta be a mixture of both. Strength is a talent I guess. Your ability to back someone down, out muscle for rebounds, finish strongly is talent. Definitely. But say Baller A worked out to become 215 pounds lean and Baller B rarely put forth effort and was 215 pounds lean it really doesnt make a difference both are the same with something of the term talent.

bucketss
11-30-2012, 07:53 PM
im taking my skills to south beach.

$GangGr33n$
11-30-2012, 08:06 PM
"Talent"



"Skills"



Merriam-Webster

this.

well what it says on the actual post

mightybosstone
11-30-2012, 08:32 PM
You can perfect your skills, you cannot improve your talent. Lebron was born with perfect athletic attributes. But he wasn't born with the ability to make plays or make an open jumper. And he has improved so many areas of his game over the years, like his post game last season. If Lebron had spent all of his time practicing something else other than basketball growing up and not working out, he couldn't just step on the court and immediately be an amazing basketball player. Lebron James, the accountant, could probably destroy any pick up game against halfway decent athletes with hardly any basketball knowledge or practice. But Lebron James, NBA superstar who has played the sport since he was a kid, is the greatest basketball player in the world.

Quinnsanity
11-30-2012, 08:55 PM
To me talent is athleticism and hand eye coordination. What you are born with and no more. Skills are things that had to be developed.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 09:13 PM
You can perfect your skills, you cannot improve your talent.
To me talent is athleticism and hand eye coordination. What you are born with and no more. Skills are things that had to be developed.

Pretty sure players can get stronger, quicker, lighter, more agile, even jump higher with the right training.

Sactown
11-30-2012, 09:30 PM
Pretty sure players can get stronger, quicker, lighter, more agile, even jump higher with the right training.

Then does talent constitute as the bass of those?

ManRam
11-30-2012, 09:31 PM
Nevermind

LAKobeBryant
11-30-2012, 10:24 PM
talent
-born with it
-speed
-vertical
-height

skills
-you can actually learn
-post moves
-handles/ dribbling skills
-shooting

mightybosstone
12-01-2012, 02:04 AM
Pretty sure players can get stronger, quicker, lighter, more agile, even jump higher with the right training.

Talent is just an innate ability to do something. Obviously anybody can become more physically fit, but being physically fit isn't a talent. Being born with the right height, musculature and bone structure is talent. Being able to run faster despite less training than the average runner or jump higher with less training than the average jumper. That's talent.

If something naturally comes easy to you with little or no training you are talented. For example, I could draw as a child. That obviously improved with years of art classes and through art classes in college, but if I had never taken classes, I would be better at drawing than the average person with the same level of training.

Heediot
12-01-2012, 07:15 AM
Edit* what I learned about talent and skills has been defined by Merriam dictionary.

mvb815
12-01-2012, 03:30 PM
your skillset is the ammunition that ultimately determines how strong your revolver of talent is

some guys can get by with pistol whipping