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View Full Version : Angels and Braves Swap Hanson and Walden



VRP723
11-30-2012, 01:48 PM
@JonHeymanCBS
Angels trade for tommy hanson

Mitchell133
11-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Interesting.

Rush
11-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Angels trade for tommy hanson

- Jon Heyman

Mcovatto
11-30-2012, 01:52 PM
I wonder who the Braves Got????

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 01:53 PM
WHO!>!>! no way! :(

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 01:53 PM
where did u see this? i dont see this anywhere yet, but i wonder who we got?!?!

infernoscurse
11-30-2012, 01:54 PM
for walden

LakersA's49ers
11-30-2012, 01:54 PM
**** the Angels

VRP723
11-30-2012, 01:54 PM
Guys my thread was first, tell SFrush to suck it!

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=784122

The X
11-30-2012, 01:54 PM
Wow

Also, you got this thread in 1 minute before the other one.

infernoscurse
11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
this opens the doors, the braves will sign greinke or haren, you heard it here first and in the other post second

DaSox_05
11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
Thats because VRP is the man!

Mcovatto
11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
The Braves got Jordan Walden

www.mlbtraderumors.com

VRP723
11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
Check this out http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=9129&position=P&pitch=FA

VRP723
11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
Thats because VRP is the man!

:hi5:

infernoscurse
11-30-2012, 01:56 PM
they will sign haren or greinke, you heard it here second!

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 01:56 PM
wow the braves got ****ed in this trade!

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 01:57 PM
they will sign haren or greinke, you heard it here second!

the angles or braves??
i dont think we have greinke money n aren't looking for a sp?

redwhiteandblue
11-30-2012, 01:58 PM
Gotta question the Braves motive here. Sure they have a pitching surplus, but why not parlay Hanson into a better deal for another piece? They either are being aggressive with some Free Agent or are poised to make another big move.

Mcovatto
11-30-2012, 01:58 PM
I wonder what Wren will do now ??????????? He gave us some cap space:) But the trade looks bad.

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 02:00 PM
How did this move give us cap space?!?! hanson was making 500,000$ a year same **** waldon is making.

h2r09
11-30-2012, 02:00 PM
Don't like this trade for the Braves at all. Hanson is a stud pitcher with top of the rotation potential and he is still young. On the surface this trade looks bad but we'll see what they do from here.

flea
11-30-2012, 02:01 PM
How did this move give us cap space?!?! hanson was making 500,000$ a year same **** waldon is making.

Hanson was arbitration eligible.

Johann
11-30-2012, 02:02 PM
Great move by angels depending if:

1) what all they gave up
2) if Hanson can stay healthy.

DaSox_05
11-30-2012, 02:02 PM
IMO I think Hanson is going to get rocked in the AL.

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 02:03 PM
knowing the braves, this doesn't mean we are going after another free agent hard or anything. hanson could have gotten us a decent bat, but we choose a subpar relief pitcher who we could have brought up in our system. this moves makes no sense when we could have traded him to just about anyone.

TrueYankee
11-30-2012, 02:04 PM
Dumb for Braves. You do not give up that type of starting pitching for some relief pitcher who struggled in the first half of last season. Hanson is not even a free agent until 2016. LOL JOKE.

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 02:06 PM
Watching him this past year, seems like he has regressed. Move into that a weak *** AL west will help tho. He will standout next year as he grew up in that area. He will only be an innings eater for the angels tho.

Rush
11-30-2012, 02:06 PM
Guys my thread was first, tell SFrush to suck it!

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=784122

Baiting/Trolling. Banned.

Jeffy25
11-30-2012, 02:08 PM
I really like this deal for the Braves

Wrench
11-30-2012, 02:09 PM
Happy we traded him.

He really is a ticking time bomb, hope the Angles get the most out of him before it goes south.

Rush
11-30-2012, 02:09 PM
Watching him this past year, seems like he has regressed. Move into that a weak *** AL west will help tho. He will standout next year as he grew up in that area. He will only be an innings eater for the angels tho.

Weak *** AL West? They could've had three Postseason teams since the Angels had a batter record than the Tigers.

infernoscurse
11-30-2012, 02:11 PM
well he will face the A's, Astros and Mariners for most of his starts

:laugh2:

Rush
11-30-2012, 02:13 PM
I forgot about those Astros.

DaSox_05
11-30-2012, 02:15 PM
well he will face the A's, Astros and Mariners for most of his starts

:laugh2:

Rangers move?

;)

Atl Bill
11-30-2012, 02:15 PM
the rangers are going to loose hamilton as well! its pretty weak considering the fact that we wont face any angels and minus Hamilton for the rangers

Braves14
11-30-2012, 02:16 PM
The Atlanta Braves know more about Tommy Hanson's shoulder than anyone here. I have faith in Wren and the Front Office that they know what they're doing. O'Flaherty/Walden/Venters/Kimbrel is FILTH.

infernoscurse
11-30-2012, 02:17 PM
Rangers move?

;)

no but they have a good lineup reason i didnt mentioned them on that list

Jack of Blades
11-30-2012, 02:18 PM
Rangers move?

;)

What? I don't know if you're asking if the Rangers are moving or what, but no.

Nomar
11-30-2012, 02:18 PM
Hanson will probably need TJ surgery at some point, but the Angels will still win this trade. This was just dumb.

infernoscurse
11-30-2012, 02:20 PM
Mark Bowman ‏@mlbbowman

Moving Hanson's $4M (approx.) was a big move for the Braves. Adds to the options in search for another OF

the braves are going for it! they will sign cody ross

VRP723
11-30-2012, 02:20 PM
The Atlanta Braves know more about Tommy Hanson's shoulder than anyone here. I have faith in Wren and the Front Office that they know what they're doing. O'Flaherty/Walden/Venters/Kimbrel is FILTH.

This move seems to make most people think EOF is on the outs.

Wrench
11-30-2012, 02:20 PM
His velocity has dropped over the past few seasons and his mechanics have created cause for concern throughout his career. Its why his value was low, surprised we got this much really.

Nice to clear out his 4M he was going to get as well.

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:21 PM
I think it's a good deal for both. Both pitchers likely needed a change of scenery and neither one is significantly better than the other. The Braves have enough starting pitching, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. If both pitchers can stay healthy and regain some control on their pitches, I think this deal will work out for both teams

Nomar
11-30-2012, 02:21 PM
the braves are going for it! they will sign cody ross

x2

infamous46
11-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Most likely a trade to clear up a little bit of money for the Braves to sign another outfielder we'll know if that's the reason in a day or 2

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:24 PM
The Atlanta Braves know more about Tommy Hanson's shoulder than anyone here. I have faith in Wren and the Front Office that they know what they're doing. O'Flaherty/Walden/Venters/Kimbrel is FILTH.

Lets not forget that Walden also has shoulder issues and that he was pretty bad last year despite what his ERA suggests. Just look at his walk rate.

beldugo
11-30-2012, 02:25 PM
Hanson drop in velocity is a concern, he's going to need TJ sooner rather than later,and is getting expensive, Jordan Walden is a very good young RP, but i think the braves are going to trade him and other for another big bat.

Wrench
11-30-2012, 02:25 PM
I think it's a good deal for both. Both pitchers likely needed a change of scenery and neither one is significantly better than the other. The Braves have enough starting pitching, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. If both pitchers can stay healthy and regain some control on their pitches, I think this deal will work out for both teams

If Hanson stays healthy the Angels win this trade by a landslide. Problem is there is a very good chance he doesn't. His drop in velocity is also a worry.

Braves14
11-30-2012, 02:26 PM
This move seems to make most people think EOF is on the outs.

Then I'd be very interested to see what he's able to net. Dominant left-handed relievers don't really grow on trees. Few bushes here and there.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 02:26 PM
Hanson has been on the decline since his rookie year, has arm issues, and is looking to get paid (Boras). If the Braves offense didn't bail him out of many of his starts this season, I believe he would have been removed from the rotation for Medlen earlier or Teheran. I guess it's worth the risk for Anaheim, but most of us lost faith in him and he was on his way out. Braves needed another righty out of the pen with Moylan finished, and another hard thrower. Much needed salary relief also. Good luck to Tommy, and hopefully it means Teheran or Delgado will get a shot before Beachy returns.

MetsJets0809
11-30-2012, 02:28 PM
Justin Upton just got very likely to be an Atlanta Brave. I read they wanted to get him and pair him with BJ and Heyward. I bet they go get him and have Justin-BJ-Heyward in the OF for the next 5 years

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:28 PM
Hanson drop in velocity is a concern, he's going to need TJ sooner rather than later,and is getting expensive, Jordan Walden is a very good young RP, but i think the braves are going to trade him and other for another big bat.

I don't think Walden has enough value to really net the Braves anything significant nor does he add much value if included in a package. This was a trade of two pitchers with low value whose respective clubs had lost favor with them.

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:30 PM
Justin Upton just got very likely to be an Atlanta Brave. I read they wanted to get him and pair him with BJ and Heyward. I bet they go get him and have Justin-BJ-Heyward in the OF for the next 5 years

I don't think this trade is a precursor to anything for either club. Just a simple one for one swap for depth.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 02:30 PM
Justin Upton just got very likely to be an Atlanta Brave. I read they wanted to get him and pair him with BJ and Heyward. I bet they go get him and have Justin-BJ-Heyward in the OF for the next 5 years
From your keyboard to God's ears...

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 02:31 PM
dp

Joemoes
11-30-2012, 02:32 PM
Now Brian McCann to Yankees for Phelps and gardener And cervelli

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:34 PM
Question: is Braves stadium a pitcher friendly, hitter friendly, or neutral park?

hammerinhank
11-30-2012, 02:35 PM
I dont mind this deal. Hanson has regressed and his shoulder is something that will remain a problem. We clear up a bit of cap space to fill our LF hole. Hanson would have been the 4/5th best pitcher in our rotation so its not like we lost much.

However I would have liked packaging him in a deal for a bat instead.

MetsJets0809
11-30-2012, 02:39 PM
Question: is Braves stadium a pitcher friendly, hitter friendly, or neutral park?

Neutral for the most part

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:42 PM
Neutral for the most part

Well, Angels Stadium is very pitcher friendly, so that should help Hanson some given that he is a fly ball pitcher. Additionally, with an outfield of Trout and Bourjos he should see a regression in the amount of hits and earned runs he gives up.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 02:43 PM
Question: is Braves stadium a pitcher friendly, hitter friendly, or neutral park?
Neutral-to-Pitcher-friendly, IMO.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 02:44 PM
Well, Angels Stadium is very pitcher friendly, so that should help Hanson some given that he is a fly ball pitcher. Additionally, with an outfield of Trout and Bourjos he should see a regression in the amount of hits and earned runs he gives up.
Hanson had the best defensive outfield in the majors behind him this past season.

hammerinhank
11-30-2012, 02:44 PM
Well, Angels Stadium is very pitcher friendly, so that should help Hanson some given that he is a fly ball pitcher. Additionally, with an outfield of Trout and Bourjos he should see a regression in the amount of hits and earned runs he gives up.

Prado - Bourn - Heyward???

Braves14
11-30-2012, 02:44 PM
Question: is Braves stadium a pitcher friendly, hitter friendly, or neutral park?

Confines would make it a pitcher's park, but the weather steers it more towards being a hitter's park(ball travels farther in warmer weather), so yeah, it's neutral but more to the pitcher's side.

iAugust
11-30-2012, 02:46 PM
I like this deal for both teams

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:49 PM
Prado - Bourn - Heyward???

That is true. I forgot about them.

Rush
11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Confines would make it a pitcher's park, but the weather steers it more towards being a hitter's park(ball travels farther in warmer weather), so yeah, it's neutral but more to the pitcher's side.

I believe it's still a pitcher's park. From what Jeffy said awhile ago, the marine layer from the ocean keeps the balls from going out as much.

ATL#22
11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Lets not forget that Walden also has shoulder issues and that he was pretty bad last year despite what his ERA suggests. Just look at his walk rate.

He had a FIP of 3.02?

hammerinhank
11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
I wouldnt be surprised if the Braves sign Victorino or Ross within the next week. Or trade for Willingham.







Hamilton? ;)

beldugo
11-30-2012, 02:51 PM
I don't think Walden has enough value to really net the Braves anything significant nor does he add much value if included in a package. This was a trade of two pitchers with low value whose respective clubs had lost favor with them.

He will add very good value in a package, young power reliever under contract till 2016, excelent strikeouts numbers and good peripherals.

ATL#22
11-30-2012, 02:55 PM
Also the Angels SB allowed will jump up approx 20

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:56 PM
He will add very good value in a package, young power reliever under contract till 2016, excelent strikeouts numbers and good peripherals.

What peripherals are you looking at? The ones I'm looking at give him an ERA+ of 110, an H/9 of 8.1, a walk rate of 4.2, and a WHIP of 1.36. Not great.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-30-2012, 02:56 PM
Watching him this past year, seems like he has regressed. Move into that a weak *** AL west will help tho. He will standout next year as he grew up in that area. He will only be an innings eater for the angels tho.

Since when is a division with the rangers angels and a's in it weak?

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 02:56 PM
He had a FIP of 3.02?

Refer to my previous post.

flea
11-30-2012, 03:00 PM
What peripherals are you looking at? The ones I'm looking at give him an ERA+ of 110, an H/9 of 8.1, a walk rate of 4.2, and a WHIP of 1.36. Not great.

This is based on 39 innings of work? Sample size much?

Relievers are notoriously finnicky when it comes to end of year stats because of this. Here's what we know: he strikes out people a lot, he throws hard, he walks more than average, and he doesn't give up a ton of long balls. I have faith in him continuing the success he's had in the Majors with one of the best pitching coaches around.

beldugo
11-30-2012, 03:02 PM
What peripherals are you looking at? The ones I'm looking at give him an ERA+ of 110, an H/9 of 8.1, a walk rate of 4.2, and a WHIP of 1.36. Not great.

Career 2.80 FIP and 3.18 xFIP. 10.83 K/9 his walks are somehow concerning but Kimbrel and Venters had that problem and our pitching coach correct it.

Farsight
11-30-2012, 03:10 PM
Going to be scary to see Walden, Venters, and Kimbrel come out for the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings. However, i do like Hanson so

RevHokALugie
11-30-2012, 03:14 PM
O'Venbrel the three headed giga monster evolves into uh... the O'Wavenbrel? That'd be so awesome if the braves also held onto EOF this offseason, game over after the sixth inning.

hammerinhank
11-30-2012, 03:18 PM
Walden dominates LH hitters.

stipe1280
11-30-2012, 03:22 PM
What a lopsided deal. I'd much rather have Hanson.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 03:32 PM
Also the Angels SB allowed will jump up approx 20
Forgot about that.

Yeah, memo to Angels fans: Thanks to his delivery and general aloofness, Hanson will allow pretty much every runner to steal on you.

Pakman
11-30-2012, 03:34 PM
Walden is a bum. Anyone who watched Angels games knows this. He has one pitch and Gets hit hard too often. No control either. Angels win this trade easy

MetsFanatic19
11-30-2012, 03:40 PM
Huh. I could see the Braves making a push for a font line starter this offseason now.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 03:41 PM
No one can build a positive case for Hanson right now, other than "if" and "hope." Just look at the statistical trends from his rookie year to now. He was in a pitcher's park, had the best defensive outfield behind him, and one of the top pitching coaches in the game... yet he was still mediocre. Now he's heading to the superior offensive league. So what exactly did they win? A guy who gets hurt, strikes out fewer batters, allows steals, almost got taken out of the rotation, and is about to get paid. Congrats?

Yankee Clipper
11-30-2012, 03:41 PM
Angels win this trade.

braveMania
11-30-2012, 03:44 PM
angel fans will regret this trade..im predicting hanson will be out of their rotation by july..after watching 145-150 braves games last year and most of hanson's career..i dont see much from him left..when he first came up his fast ball was 95-96..now its 88-90..topping out at 89 in some games..plus he cant hold runners on AT ALL..he gave up a stolen base to carlos lee this past year..and 7 sbs in 1 game..

hammerinhank
11-30-2012, 03:44 PM
Angels get a guy who can pitch 5 bad/mediocre innings per start when healthy.

I hope he is able to find success in LA but I dont think many Braves fans are too sad about the move.

ugafan
11-30-2012, 03:51 PM
Hanson is nowhere close to as good as people seem to think he is. In for a very rude surprise. Even years when he had good numbers, he's the most frustrating pitcher to watch. Every Braves fan I know dreaded to see him pitch every 5 days. Great riddance and we get a very good reliever and cap space. Ill take it with a smile.

VRP723
11-30-2012, 03:55 PM
Hanson is nowhere close to as good as people seem to think he is. In for a very rude surprise. Even years when he had good numbers, he's the most frustrating pitcher to watch. Every Braves fan I know dreaded to see him pitch every 5 days. Great riddance and we get a very good reliever and cap space. Ill take it with a smile.

Two questions/statements

1) The money argument that people keep dropping here and on Twitter is overblown. Thinking Walden has more value than Hanson is one thing, but justifying a downgrade in talent because you save 4 million dollars is a little much. *Not saying that's what you're doing, but it has that implication*

2) Do you not think Hanson could be as useful as Walden if he was made a RP? Even declining, I think he could easily.

ugafan
11-30-2012, 03:59 PM
Two questions/statements

1) The money argument that people keep dropping here and on Twitter is overblown. Thinking Walden has more value than Hanson is one thing, but justifying a downgrade in talent because you save 4 million dollars is a little much. *Not saying that's what you're doing, but it has that implication*

2) Do you not think Hanson could be as useful as Walden if he was made a RP? Even declining, I think he could easily.

Hanson's shoulder is a bigger issue than people seem to think I guess. If the money we save allows us to get J Upton or Swisher, it's definitely worth it. You just have to trust me on this one, Hanson is pretty much done. I'm happy for him because he doesn't have to hit anymore because I'm a better hitter than he is. Can't hold runners(worst in baseball) and these things aren't factored into his value.

I might be rambling idk, I don't have a computer so I'm on my phone

Jeffy25
11-30-2012, 04:04 PM
Confines would make it a pitcher's park, but the weather steers it more towards being a hitter's park(ball travels farther in warmer weather), so yeah, it's neutral but more to the pitcher's side.

Angels play in more of a pitchers park, the sea air really does kill the ball quite a bit. It tends to be a top 10 pitchers park in all of baseball basically every year.

VRP723
11-30-2012, 04:05 PM
Hanson's shoulder is a bigger issue than people seem to think I guess. If the money we save allows us to get J Upton or Swisher, it's definitely worth it. You just have to trust me on this one, Hanson is pretty much done. I'm happy for him because he doesn't have to hit anymore because I'm a better hitter than he is. Can't hold runners(worst in baseball) and these things aren't factored into his value.

I might be rambling idk, I don't have a computer so I'm on my phone

First off, re: bold, Ted Lilly.

And we'll see. Even if Hanson is teetering on the edge of blowing out his arm, I think he would have had more value than a 7th inning reliever.

Jeffy25
11-30-2012, 04:07 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I like this deal for the Braves. I like Walden and I think he will always be a good set-up guy, potentially a good closer and will have a long career.


Hanson I think will have issues with his shoulders. He had some great people working with him that helped Smoltz who originally had the same delivery style that Hanson does until they fixed it. Hanson doesn't seem to want to change (or can't) that delivery to make it functional, which leads me to wonder what kind of career as a starter he will have.


I would rather have Walden than Hanson I believe, even with Hanson being a starter.

Getting UGGLA
11-30-2012, 04:17 PM
knowing the braves, this doesn't mean we are going after another free agent hard or anything. hanson could have gotten us a decent bat, but we choose a subpar relief pitcher who we could have brought up in our system. this moves makes no sense when we could have traded him to just about anyone.

Dude, would you chill out? This was a great move! Hanson has been going downhill faster than Lindsay Lohan and Walden has Mega potential as a EOF replacement. We don't need EOF anymore, with Venters, Walden and Kimbrel. We have a chance to lose all Scott Bor*** clients, and we get a guy who the Angels don't need as they have another great closer, and this guy tops 98-100 on the gun. What is your problem???

Wrench
11-30-2012, 04:37 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I like this deal for the Braves. I like Walden and I think he will always be a good set-up guy, potentially a good closer and will have a long career.


Hanson I think will have issues with his shoulders. He had some great people working with him that helped Smoltz who originally had the same delivery style that Hanson does until they fixed it. Hanson doesn't seem to want to change (or can't) that delivery to make it functional, which leads me to wonder what kind of career as a starter he will have. He has also had back issues these past few seasons.


I would rather have Walden than Hanson I believe, even with Hanson being a starter.


Hanson's velocity has dropped from 92 when he was a rookie to 89 last season on his fastball. He has lost a bit on all of his pitches really, that shoulder is a very real issue.

Being I am a Braves fan of course I like this deal for us better but I think it is pretty even. Lopsided if Hanson's issues are fixed and he stays healthy.

silrdr06
11-30-2012, 04:37 PM
The braves get a bullpen arm while giving up a guy that made me want to kill my dog after every time he pitched. And they save about 4 million... Braves WIN.

Rio40
11-30-2012, 04:42 PM
I think the Braves could have done better. Why not have made an offer for Gordon since the Royals are desperate for pitching?

RaiderKid318
11-30-2012, 04:49 PM
Solid trade I love it. Hanson was quickly on his way out and could not hold Hudson, medlen, or beachys jock strap lol. I'll take Paul for 1 more season with JT being our number 5. Let Paul or huddy walk next year and bring Delgado out! GREAT move by getting rid of the weakest link and angels get a solid solid number 4 or 5 guy with the potential to be a great 2 or 3.

RaiderKid318
11-30-2012, 04:51 PM
I think the Braves could have done better. Why not have made an offer for Gordon since the Royals are desperate for pitching?

Obviously they are eyeballing Justin upton or we would have pulled the trigger on span when we had the chance lol. I do believe Gordon/sick prospect would be the back up plan though.

Sick Of It All
11-30-2012, 04:53 PM
Hanson has had some injuries the past couple of seasons, sounds like the Braves expect more of that going forward.

GrumpyOldMan
11-30-2012, 05:00 PM
I like the move for the Braves. Walden can be used well in a deep bullpen. Their rotation doesn't really suffer from this move either. Relievers are important. Especially in the NL. If this frees up some cash to get them a LF it greatly impoves their team.

MELO 15
11-30-2012, 05:05 PM
Prepared to have the bases stolen on the regular

popo85
11-30-2012, 05:19 PM
Good move, will be a solid 3rd starter in the rotation

HowFit
11-30-2012, 05:33 PM
i like the move for the braves. Walden can be used well in a deep bullpen. Their rotation doesn't really suffer from this move either. Relievers are important. Especially in the nl. If this frees up some cash to get them a lf it greatly impoves their team.

x 2

vladdy#27
11-30-2012, 05:33 PM
Hanson is nowhere close to as good as people seem to think he is. In for a very rude surprise. Even years when he had good numbers, he's the most frustrating pitcher to watch. Every Braves fan I know dreaded to see him pitch every 5 days. Great riddance and we get a very good reliever and cap space. Ill take it with a smile.

I think this is pretty much the consensus among Angels fans on Walden.

Walden has had a career riddled with injuries going back to the minor leagues. His windup is very violent and he has the dreaded inverted w. (http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Walden1.jpg) Like Hanson he has also seen a dip in velocity, but I believe its a bigger problem for Walden considering he has no control and that is pretty much his only pitch.

I wrote this in the Angels forum 4 days ago


With the way Walden throws he is an injury waiting to happen. If he is healthy he is a good pitcher, probably better than a lot of us think. But I believe he is a big question mark health wise.

When it was rumored that we were shopping him I said


Walden should get us a Frieri type return

And we got more than that so I am happy

sports4life1989
11-30-2012, 05:35 PM
The braves get a bullpen arm while giving up a guy that made me want to kill my dog after every time he pitched. And they save about 4 million... Braves WIN and saved your dog.

Fixed. lol

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Good move, will be a solid 3rd starter in the rotation
But he was the Braves 5th starter though, behind guys like Mike Minor and off-the-street Ben Sheets.

That's good?

ugafan
11-30-2012, 05:44 PM
KLaw likes the deal for the Braves and really dislikes it for the Angels.

Hanson is not a good pitcher anymore.


I understand the Los Angeles Angels are looking for affordable help for the back of their rotation, and I don't think trading a hard-throwing reliever for it is a bad idea, but I'm very pessimistic about the pitcher they acquired, Tommy Hanson, while I think the reliever they dealt, Jordan Walden, still has the potential to become a 2-plus WAR reliever for the Atlanta Braves.

It's hard to expect much from Hanson at this point.
The Angels didn't give up a ton for Hanson, but Hanson is so diminished at this point by shoulder and back problems that I'm not sure I'd want any part of him at his projected $4 million salary in arbitration. Hanson's a mess, and even when healthy in 2012 was barely above replacement level. He got worse as the season went on, and his fastball hasn't been the same since the shoulder problems began in earnest in 2011.

He doesn't have a great delivery, one that relies more on his arm than his legs to generate velocity, with late arm acceleration and minimal hip rotation, and he's fairly unathletic as well.

His command and control are both in decline as well, and unless the Angels plan to do something radical, such as giving him extra time off between starts or perhaps start his 2013 season later to try to build up strength in his shoulder and ensure that his back is 100 percent, I'm not optimistic that he'll be able to help their rotation.

In exchange for a player they had to at least be considering a potential non-tender, Atlanta gets back a project reliever in Walden. He throws in the upper 90s with heavy sink, but has below-average command and often has to elevate the ball just to throw strikes, meaning he doesn't generate the ground balls you'd expect from the scouting report.

His slider is sharp but is just a pitch to keep hitters off the fastball, meaning it won't be effective unless he can improve his ability to locate his primary pitch.

But Walden isn't eligible for arbitration yet, with one more year of club control than Hanson has remaining, so Atlanta saves some cash for 2013 and also has more time to try to fix what ails Walden, mostly command, which is more likely than the Angels fixing Hanson's health issues. I'd much rather have four years of Walden than three of Hanson, and that's even more true when we consider the greater expense for Hanson, because arbitration values starters more highly than non-closer relievers.

ugafan
11-30-2012, 05:47 PM
AND


#Dbacks want Andrelton Simmons from #Braves in Justin Upton talks. This is why Justin Upton has not joined BJ in Atlanta -- yet.

Jon Morosi

Without this deal, Upton isn't possible

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 05:50 PM
/takes off pants.

flea
11-30-2012, 05:50 PM
I don't see what's so hard to understand about a team not willing to trade one of their young starters on a team that's set to compete. Is Kevin Towers really this dense? Even if Simmons weren't cheap and under control for a long time, no team in the hunt for a title would do this.

More-Than-Most
11-30-2012, 05:53 PM
Not a fan of a Starting pitcher with top level talent at that age for a bull pen arm period... I also do not agree with well we have so much of this in our farm so we can afford to trade this for that.... I thought they would get More for Hanson to be brutally honest.

flea
11-30-2012, 05:53 PM
Not a fan of a Starting pitcher with top level talent at that age for a bull pen arm period... I also do not agree with well we have so much of this in our farm so we can afford to trade this for that.... I thought they would get More for Hanson to be brutally honest.

Well then Frank Wren and I both wish you were a team's GM, because nobody else thinks that.

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 05:57 PM
I have to assume everyone praising Hanson hasn't watched him very often or checked his numbers recently, so they think he's the same guy they remember from years ago. Tommy is becoming the Jason Bay of pitchers.

ciaban
11-30-2012, 06:03 PM
i don't see why the braves did this, hanson had a bad year but is only 26 and still has a lot of talent

Wrench
11-30-2012, 06:10 PM
i don't see why the braves did this, hanson had a bad year but is only 26 and still has a lot of talent

Injurys, FB has went from 92MPH to 89MPH in 3 seasons.

iam brett favre
11-30-2012, 06:19 PM
Hate this deal for the Braves.

maddiesbraves
11-30-2012, 06:21 PM
Watching him this past year, seems like he has regressed. Move into that a weak *** AL west will help tho. He will standout next year as he grew up in that area. He will only be an innings eater for the angels tho.

Huh.... He has never gone past the 7th and hardly ever makes past the 5th. Where are these innings going to be eaton?

agureghian
11-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Angels won this trade easily.

Jeffy25
11-30-2012, 06:26 PM
I think the Braves could have done better. Why not have made an offer for Gordon since the Royals are desperate for pitching?

How do you know they didn't?

beldugo
11-30-2012, 06:28 PM
i don't see why the braves did this, hanson had a bad year but is only 26 and still has a lot of talent

People needs to u derstand that even that he is young he lost all his abillities, his fastball velocity is around 89 MPH, he has very good stuff tho, he will keep striking out guys even with his lost velocity, but he is a pitcher who don't go deep in the games, he is always around 100 pitches at the 5th inning, i like this deal for the braves.

keymax
11-30-2012, 06:31 PM
How do you know they didn't?

Even if they did. It's pretty likely they got the best possible return. Baseball front offices aren't usually run by complete morons ;)

Hanson's success partially came from his short arm delivery which added to his fastball, but his shoulder can't handle it. It's unlikely he can be very good without completely reinventing himself.

BrianWestKins
11-30-2012, 06:31 PM
On the surface it looks like a steal for the Angels, but who knows how long Hanson will hold up with that funky delivery. My arm hurts just watching him throw

HowFit
11-30-2012, 06:44 PM
Wow, I bet the Braves wished many here were GMs. It's apparent that Hanson is overvalue here...

Bravo95
11-30-2012, 06:49 PM
I think this tells you all you need to know about, well, everything.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121130&content_id=40473194&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl&tcid=tw_article_40473194

Ironically, the Braves learned of the Angels' interest in adding pitching depth after the Halos asked about Jair Jurrjens about a month ago.

Jurrjens and Hanson owned two of the National League's top three ERAs entering the 2011 All-Star break. On Friday, the Braves said goodbye to both right-handed pitchers. Jurrjens is set to be non-tendered before 11:59 p.m. ET Friday.

Jeffy25
11-30-2012, 07:03 PM
Jurrjens everyone knew wasn't as good as his first half 2011, he was getting lucky.

Hanson was more-so legit. But injuries are injuries.

Jeffy25
11-30-2012, 07:04 PM
Even if they did. It's pretty likely they got the best possible return. Baseball front offices aren't usually run by complete morons ;)

In KC they might be ;)

Fly
11-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Yay, I hate the Fat Ginger.

mark1125
11-30-2012, 07:09 PM
I can see unloading Hanson, but Walden? Don't like it.

natepro
11-30-2012, 07:42 PM
Move into that a weak *** AL west will help tho.

Maybe you're confusing the AL West and the AL Central? The Angels missed the playoffs last year, entirely, with a record better than the Tigers. The Astros moving in will weaken the division some, sure, but it's silly to act like it's a crazy weak division, as much as I wish it were true.

fresh prince
11-30-2012, 08:10 PM
Hahahaha this thread has been so awesome..

Bottom line is a serviceable #3 -4 starter with some upside at 26 years old is simply more valuable than a hard throwing releief pitcher with one pitch and no control.

RP's like Walden should be promoted from the minors not aqcuired for legit big league starters. Unless Hanson's arm is shot the Halos pimp this deal.

ATL#22
11-30-2012, 08:11 PM
Somebody asked about Jurrjens?

ATL#22
11-30-2012, 08:14 PM
Hahahaha this thread has been so awesome..

Bottom line is a serviceable #3 -4 starter with some upside at 26 years old is simply more valuable than a hard throwing releief pitcher with one pitch and no control.

RP's like Walden should be promoted from the minors not aqcuired for legit big league starters. Unless Hanson's arm is shot the Halos pimp this deal.

It might be shot. Fastball is down to 89 and continues to drop. He offset this by throwing way more breaking balls which raised his walk rate. His FIP was over 4 and he is the worst at holding runners (I believe he lead the league in SB allowed). He's a back end starter (5) right now.

Atticus Finch
11-30-2012, 08:21 PM
At first I thought this was an absolute steal for the Angels, but I wasn't too aware of Hanson's shoulder issues and delivery flaws. That being said I think its a fair deal for both sides, not too much risk when you consider the salaries involved. If Hanson can get healthy and stay that way the Angels will have a solid rotation and if Walden improves his command the Braves will have an even scarier bullpen

fresh prince
11-30-2012, 08:21 PM
KLaw likes the deal for the Braves and really dislikes it for the Angels.

Hanson is not a good pitcher anymore.

I was there for a little bit and then I read this:


He throws in the upper 90s with heavy sink, but has below-average command and often has to elevate the ball just to throw strikes, meaning he doesn't generate the ground balls you'd expect from the scouting report.



Hahahah clearly KLAW or whatever scoting report he refrenced has not seen much of Walden. His fastball has good lateral movement when he's on but otherwise it is a straight as can be. But there is no sink involved at all... EVER.

I'm thinking the Scout may have been Clint Eastwood and prolly confused Walden's fastball with his slider. He throws a wild slider he cant control at about 92 - 93 MPH so I guess it could be mistaken for a fastball :confused:

ATL#22
11-30-2012, 08:25 PM
And so it doesn't seem like I'm blasting him because we traded him. This was my post from a month ago in the trade idea threads


Yeah, when he came up he was in the mid 90's but its steadily declined and he has had some shoulder pain in the past. He's still an effective starter but as someone who has watched a lot of his starts he is clearly not the ace he looked like at the beginning of last year.

And this


It's not just one down year and it depends on how other teams view him. He isn't the same pitcher that came up as a rookie. His velocity is WAY down, (89.7) which has forced him to throw more breaking balls, which has lead to decreased efficiency, and even more strain on his already weak shoulder. He's still a good pitcher but there is some really bright red flags hovering over him.

the brave eagle
11-30-2012, 08:35 PM
love this trade as a braves fan...i mean i like hanson but he can't get past 6 innings an walden makes are good bullpen, to a great bullpen, i mean we have 2 dominant rightys an 2 very good lefty, it will take pressure away from venters an innings so he could be better

Cheezombie
11-30-2012, 08:49 PM
Darn..I was really looking forward to an Angels rotation of Weaver, Wilson, and garbage.

Fly
11-30-2012, 08:56 PM
Darn..I was really looking forward to an Angels rotation of Weaver, Wilson, and garbage.

I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility..

silrdr06
11-30-2012, 09:03 PM
Darn..I was really looking forward to an Angels rotation of Weaver, Wilson, and garbage.

Then be happy cause unless they add someone else, thats exactly what they will have.

hammerinhank
11-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Hopefully the Braves can snag J Upton now, as long as we don't send Simba to AZ.

Cheezombie
11-30-2012, 09:21 PM
Then be happy cause unless they add someone else, thats exactly what they will have.

:up:

NYKNYGNYY
11-30-2012, 09:32 PM
I always liked tommy Hanson ...got the same last name

SenorGato
11-30-2012, 10:36 PM
Meh trade getting more attention than it's worth because both guys are former top prospects who fell below expectations and there's no other baseball news. Hanson was hailed as the next great Braves ace (called that mechanics meltdown the second I saw him) and Walden was the annual "ZOMG NEXT NOLAN RYANZ/ROGER CLEMENZ HYBRID" Texas HS flamethrower in the draft.

Long term I expect it's even or forgotten. Both have their value. Hanson could be a BOR guy while Walden could be a late inning guy. I suppose the safer bet is Walden between the two, but like I said - meh.

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 10:44 PM
KLaw likes the deal for the Braves and really dislikes it for the Angels.

Hanson is not a good pitcher anymore.

Isn't he the guy who's inaccurate 90% of the time. And his opinion holds as much weight as yours or mine except more people will read it.

Abedodgerfan1
11-30-2012, 10:47 PM
I don't like this trade for the braves. When it come down to value, a starter is always more valuable than a reliver. That's why they command the big bucks. It was reported earlier this week that Walden was very avalible, so he could of been had for cheap. Hanson might not have the same value as last year but the braves could of gotten alot more in return even if it was only a salary dump.

We'll just have to see what the braves do next to determine if it really was a bad trade.

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 10:50 PM
But he was the Braves 5th starter though, behind guys like Mike Minor and off-the-street Ben Sheets.

That's good?

He'll be our fourth starter. Greinke/Haren/Marcum/Jackson/McCarthy/Sanchez will be our third starter.

GA16Angels
11-30-2012, 10:55 PM
On the surface it looks like a steal for the Angels, but who knows how long Hanson will hold up with that funky delivery. My arm hurts just watching him throw

Switch "Hanson" with "Walden" and you have my sentiments exactly. Both players are risks, but I think Hanson has much more upside than Walden.

HowFit
11-30-2012, 11:17 PM
Switch "Hanson" with "Walden" and you have my sentiments exactly. Both players are risks, but I think Hanson has much more upside than Walden.

Since you feel that way, I hope you won't see disappointment in near future....

iam brett favre
12-01-2012, 01:03 AM
How convinient for Braves fans that Hanson sucks now. Reverse Matt Kemp effect from a few years ago.

IAmARanger18
12-01-2012, 01:18 AM
I don't like this deal for the Braves at all.

Halladay
12-01-2012, 01:46 AM
Isn't he the guy who's inaccurate 90% of the time. And his opinion holds as much weight as yours or mine except more people will read it.

I actually view Law as a pretty reliable resource, he knows his stuff. He's not just a writer, he did work in a MLB front office at one point.

Halladay
12-01-2012, 01:48 AM
I liked Hanson a few years ago, he had nice potential and still does. However, it doesn't take much time to realize his odd drop in velocity for a guy his age. Methinks Atlanta's seen something they don't like and it's likely a bad arm. You just don't deal young, cost-controlled, somewhat proven starters for pen arms.

Wrench
12-01-2012, 01:58 AM
How convinient for Braves fans that Hanson sucks now. Reverse Matt Kemp effect from a few years ago.

Been saying it for a few years really. Most of us have wanted to see him traded before this season. His problems are well noticed.

iam brett favre
12-01-2012, 02:24 AM
You guys are crazy. Hanson will bounce back and be a consistent 15 game winner. OMGZ but wins don't count! Either way, he will be.

SenorGato
12-01-2012, 02:34 AM
I liked Hanson a few years ago, he had nice potential and still does. However, it doesn't take much time to realize his odd drop in velocity for a guy his age. Methinks Atlanta's seen something they don't like and it's likely a bad arm. You just don't deal young, cost-controlled, somewhat proven starters for pen arms.

Atlanta doesn't see anything special, everyone knows his mechanics sucked and his shoulder is messed up right now.

They thought he was a potential ace coming up, the injury lowers that upside, and so they switched it out for a potential late inning arm. The Braves probably figure they can get BOR production with the guys they have, and currently value a late inning arm more. Late inning arms, even non-closers, aren't exactly cheap right now either.


I doubt some wool was pulled over the eyes of the Angels. Try lost Santana/Haren as well as possibly Greinke so far, so they probably want cheap BOR production as well as a TOR arm. Walden doesn't solve their pen problems, but Hanson could help with their BOR (their staff lost a bunch of innings as well) and offers payroll flexibility.

It's all very convoluted, but likely this deal helps each side work toward fixing their team pitching.

Wrench
12-01-2012, 02:47 AM
You guys are crazy. Hanson will bounce back and be a consistent 15 game winner. OMGZ but wins don't count! Either way, he will be.

Don't see how all of the sudden he will gain his velocity back to what it was. He only threw 89 on average last year on his FB was near 93 as a rookie.

I hope him the best, a plus is he is from CA so he gets to be closer to home.

leftie5
12-01-2012, 03:04 AM
You guys are crazy. Hanson will bounce back and be a consistent 15 game winner. OMGZ but wins don't count! Either way, he will be.

There is always the potential he bounces back. I always hoped he would for us.

But, "Hanson has posted a 4.96 ERA, allowing opponents to hit .277 against him over the 36 starts he has made since the 2011 All-Star break." Couple this with the velocity drop, being injury prone, and having trouble consistently getting into the 6th inning, and I am pretty happy with the trade. Wish him the best though.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121130&content_id=40473194&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Also, I think people fail to realize the trade wasn't to get equal trade value back. It was more to avoid paying Hanson $4 million he will be getting during arbitration to basically be our 4th or 5th guy, when we have younger, cheaper, and possibly better options in Delgado or Teheran to take his spot. Hope the trade works out for both teams.

More-Than-Most
12-01-2012, 07:26 AM
I liked Hanson a few years ago, he had nice potential and still does. However, it doesn't take much time to realize his odd drop in velocity for a guy his age. Methinks Atlanta's seen something they don't like and it's likely a bad arm. You just don't deal young, cost-controlled, somewhat proven starters for pen arms.

When and if he continues to suck I will have no issues admitting I am wrong about this trade...Right now there is no way this is a win for the braves and the part in bold basically says the same thing...Could he be damaged goods or declining? sure but give me the young cost controlled high upside starter over the bull pen arm any day of the week and twice on Sunday...Both Guys have red Flags

Halladay
12-01-2012, 07:38 AM
Atlanta doesn't see anything special, everyone knows his mechanics sucked and his shoulder is messed up right now.

They thought he was a potential ace coming up, the injury lowers that upside, and so they switched it out for a potential late inning arm. The Braves probably figure they can get BOR production with the guys they have, and currently value a late inning arm more. Late inning arms, even non-closers, aren't exactly cheap right now either.


I doubt some wool was pulled over the eyes of the Angels. Try lost Santana/Haren as well as possibly Greinke so far, so they probably want cheap BOR production as well as a TOR arm. Walden doesn't solve their pen problems, but Hanson could help with their BOR (their staff lost a bunch of innings as well) and offers payroll flexibility.

It's all very convoluted, but likely this deal helps each side work toward fixing their team pitching.


When and if he continues to suck I will have no issues admitting I am wrong about this trade...Right now there is no way this is a win for the braves and the part in bold basically says the same thing...Could he be damaged goods or declining? sure but give me the young cost controlled high upside starter over the bull pen arm any day of the week and twice on Sunday...Both Guys have red Flags

This reminds me of the Jays/Mariners deal from a few years ago, Morrow for League. Can sure turn out ugly dealing the starter for the pen arm. Can easily come back to bite you.

silrdr06
12-01-2012, 09:57 AM
its a low risk high reward for both. Who knows maybe Walden becomes a great BP arm. AND maybe Hanson returns to his rookie form and becomes an ACE. Crazier things have happened. Like someone said earlier this trade will soon be forgotten for the non-factor that it is. People get obsessed with wanting to feel like their teams "won". In reality this will not be known until the end of the season short term and years later long term. So for now lets just say that both teams got something they needed while giving up something they felt they had in abundance. Discussion over.

Fly
12-01-2012, 10:05 AM
You guys are crazy. Hanson will bounce back and be a consistent 15 game winner. OMGZ but wins don't count! Either way, he will be.

god you're the worst

Zmaster52
12-01-2012, 10:42 AM
Hell, even if Hanson does get rocked, Walden still sucks.

HowFit
12-01-2012, 11:26 AM
its a low risk high reward for both. Who knows maybe walden becomes a great bp arm. And maybe hanson returns to his rookie form and becomes an ace. Crazier things have happened. Like someone said earlier this trade will soon be forgotten for the non-factor that it is. People get obsessed with wanting to feel like their teams "won". In reality this will not be known until the end of the season short term and years later long term. So for now lets just say that both teams got something they needed while giving up something they felt they had in abundance. Discussion over.

x 2

mark1125
12-01-2012, 11:42 AM
its a low risk high reward for both. Who knows maybe Walden becomes a great BP arm. AND maybe Hanson returns to his rookie form and becomes an ACE. Crazier things have happened. Like someone said earlier this trade will soon be forgotten for the non-factor that it is. People get obsessed with wanting to feel like their teams "won". In reality this will not be known until the end of the season short term and years later long term. So for now lets just say that both teams got something they needed while giving up something they felt they had in abundance. Discussion over.

Probably the most spot on comment ever on PSD.

Honestly, I like the Hanson side better, but the Braves must know something that us experts at PSD don't. Odds are it is a non impact deal for both parties, but it can go either way.

beldugo
12-01-2012, 11:54 AM
Hell, even if Hanson does get rocked, Walden still sucks.

show me why he sucks??

Zmaster52
12-01-2012, 12:29 PM
show me why he sucks??

Poor control, they're both injury prone, Walden is a thrower, not a pitcher. Unless he can fix that, he'll get rocked.

beldugo
12-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Poor control, they're both injury prone, Walden is a thrower, not a pitcher. Unless he can fix that, he'll get rocked.

He has poor control but is not outrageous bad, 4.00 BB/9 in 114.2 innings, his 10.83 K/9 and 2.80 FIP 3.18 xFIP shows you are wrong, he's been a very good reliever, he hasn't fix his control issues and has been very good if he does he could be one of the best relievers in baseball. You say he is a thrower but he's not, 114 career innings shows he can be a pitcher.

flea
12-01-2012, 12:46 PM
He has poor control but is not outrageous bad, 4.00 BB/9 in 114.2 innings, his 10.83 K/9 and 2.80 FIP 3.18 xFIP shows you are wrong, he's been a very good reliever, he hasn't fix his control issues and has been very good if he does he could be one of the best relievers in baseball. You say he is a thrower but he's not, 114 career innings shows he can be a pitcher.

It's important to the Mets fan that a good reliever be bad when he plays for a division rival. JUST ACCEPT IT.

beldugo
12-01-2012, 01:05 PM
It's important to the Mets fan that a good reliever be bad when he plays for a division rival. JUST ACCEPT IT.

Got it.

Jeffy25
12-01-2012, 03:32 PM
Poor control, they're both injury prone, Walden is a thrower, not a pitcher. Unless he can fix that, he'll get rocked.

Poor control?

2.71 K/BB


Sign me up for someone as poor control

Jeffy25
12-01-2012, 03:34 PM
This reminds me of the Jays/Mariners deal from a few years ago, Morrow for League. Can sure turn out ugly dealing the starter for the pen arm. Can easily come back to bite you.

Except this is based on mechanics.

It wasn't with Morrow.

mtf
12-01-2012, 03:37 PM
Except this is based on mechanics.

It wasn't with Morrow.

I believe Morrow was a reliever with the Mariners at the time of that trade as well. As former very high draft pick (1st round, 5th overall in 2006), the Jays converted him back into a starter at the time of the deal.

Rush
12-01-2012, 05:58 PM
I believe Morrow was a reliever with the Mariners at the time of that trade as well. As former very high draft pick (1st round, 5th overall in 2006), the Jays converted him back into a starter at the time of the deal.

He was a reliever the majority of the time with the Mariners, but about half way through 2009 he began starting and then was traded that offseason.

ATL#22
12-01-2012, 07:19 PM
How convinient for Braves fans that Hanson sucks now. Reverse Matt Kemp effect from a few years ago.

If you read anything at all these are legitimate concerns we've all had for awhile

BrianWestKins
12-01-2012, 07:47 PM
Poor control?

2.71 K/BB


Sign me up for someone as poor control

Strikeout to walk ratio doesn't accurately indicate a pitcher's control. Try walks per 9 innings and walk percentage to get a more accurate representation of a pitcher's control. In this case, Walden had a 4.15 BB/9 ratio and a 10.4 BB%.

That indicates poor control.

Jeffy25
12-01-2012, 08:23 PM
Strikeout to walk ratio doesn't accurately indicate a pitcher's control. Try walks per 9 innings and walk percentage to get a more accurate representation of a pitcher's control. In this case, Walden had a 4.15 BB/9 ratio and a 10.4 BB%.

That indicates poor control.

I realize this, the point was that as long as he keeps a ridiculous K rate, his BB rate is just fine in the 3's and 4's.

If he was striking out 6 per 9 and walking 3 per 9, then it's a different issue, but he is well over that. So control isn't something to really complain about with him at this point.


But yes, his BB rate is higher than average, but, along with that, so is his K rate.

Wrench
12-01-2012, 09:09 PM
His control seems to be as good as Venters who also has a BB/9 over 4 as well. Walden Ks about one more per 9.

His xFIP has been a tad higher than Venters though.

Pinstripe pride
12-03-2012, 09:18 AM
dont like this from a braves standpoint

FalconsNation02
12-03-2012, 07:36 PM
Poor control?

2.71 K/BB


Sign me up for someone as poor control


Dude... I watch about 140-150 Angel games a year, and can say Walden is straight up extreemly ineffective. I loved his potential when he was coming up, but he cannot be relied upon on any clutch moment. I am not saying I am in love with Hanson, but any Angel fan will tell you that he got relegated to mop up work because 7th, 8th, and 9th inning responsibility was too much for the kid. I'll take a relativily cheap 4th/5th starter with upside than a kid with one pitch that he cannot control.

Jeffy25
12-03-2012, 08:17 PM
Dude... I watch about 140-150 Angel games a year, and can say Walden is straight up extreemly ineffective. I loved his potential when he was coming up, but he cannot be relied upon on any clutch moment. I am not saying I am in love with Hanson, but any Angel fan will tell you that he got relegated to mop up work because 7th, 8th, and 9th inning responsibility was too much for the kid. I'll take a relativily cheap 4th/5th starter with upside than a kid with one pitch that he cannot control.

He was 11th in WPA out of 17 relievers in 2012
3rd out of 17 relievers in 2011
and even though he didn't pitch much, he was 5th out of 15 in 2010.

He isn't necessarily 'unclutch'

He seems to get the job done when needed, although 2012 was clearly not as good as 2011.

beldugo
12-03-2012, 08:33 PM
Dude... I watch about 140-150 Angel games a year, and can say Walden is straight up extreemly ineffective. I loved his potential when he was coming up, but he cannot be relied upon on any clutch moment. I am not saying I am in love with Hanson, but any Angel fan will tell you that he got relegated to mop up work because 7th, 8th, and 9th inning responsibility was too much for the kid. I'll take a relativily cheap 4th/5th starter with upside than a kid with one pitch that he cannot control.

Are you a scout? Because if not, i don't care what you saw because numbers proves you are wrong.

Jeffy25
12-03-2012, 08:44 PM
Are you a scout? Because if not, i don't care what you saw because numbers proves you are wrong.

that's not nice

FalconsNation02
12-04-2012, 01:03 PM
Are you a scout? Because if not, i don't care what you saw because numbers proves you are wrong.

No, I'm not a scout, just a huge angel fan that watches 150 games a year since 1994, and season ticket holder since 99'. Good luck with your "stats". People who actually saw this guy blow game after game, then relegated to mop up duty, knows this guy just simply doesn't have what it takes. I feel bad because I have met him and shook his hand on multiple occassions out at events he was at, but it is what it is. Good luck :p

beldugo
12-04-2012, 02:15 PM
No, I'm not a scout, just a huge angel fan that watches 150 games a year since 1994, and season ticket holder since 99'. Good luck with your "stats". People who actually saw this guy blow game after game, then relegated to mop up duty, knows this guy just simply doesn't have what it takes. I feel bad because I have met him and shook his hand on multiple occassions out at events he was at, but it is what it is. Good luck :p

sorry for my response, i was having a bad day, i know stats aren't everything, but seems i haven't seen him pitch regularly it's all i got and some Angels fans has been saying that he sucks but, no one has show me a stat that proves it.

FalconsNation02
12-04-2012, 02:19 PM
sorry for my response, i was having a bad day, i know stats aren't everything, but seems i haven't seen him pitch regularly it's all i got and some Angels fans has been saying that he sucks but, no one has show me a stat that proves it.

No worries man. I think its a good trade for both teams... basically depth for depth. I hope Walden performs well for the Braves.

VRP723
12-04-2012, 02:34 PM
god you're the worst

:laugh2:

fresh prince
12-05-2012, 06:54 AM
Poor control?

2.71 K/BB


Sign me up for someone as poor control

Ahh when metrics go wrong.Falling behind 3-1 and then grooving a straight fastball is also a sign of poor control.Walden loves to do that. 4.15 /BB9 and .312 Babip illustrate the control issue more clearly. The real problem for Walden is he can't throw any secondary pitches for a strike. That's the case for several Angels relievers so it could be a system issue that maybe the Braves can sort out. If they can Walden could be effective.

Jeffy25
12-05-2012, 03:22 PM
Ahh when metrics go wrong.Falling behind 3-1 and then grooving a straight fastball is also a sign of poor control.Walden loves to do that.
that means poor command, not poor control. And he obviously has the command to throw a 3-1 pitch across the plate, so the issue isn't command/control, but rather his ability to pitch overall that you are complaining about.



4.15 /BB9 and .312 Babip illustrate the control issue more clearly.
Babip has nothing to do with control, at all.

fresh prince
12-05-2012, 05:24 PM
that means poor command, not poor control. And he obviously has the command to throw a 3-1 pitch across the plate, so the issue isn't command/control, but rather his ability to pitch overall that you are complaining about.



Babip has nothing to do with control, at all.

Yea it does if you cant locate pitches youre going to give up more hits and more firm contact. Walden also allows a fairly high LD Rate. Its the result of falling behing and then as you so acurately described throwing a 3-1 pitch "across the plate" instead of locating the pitch inside or outside.

BABIP is so grossly misinterpreted.

Jeffy25
12-05-2012, 07:16 PM
Yea it does if you cant locate pitches youre going to give up more hits and more firm contact. Walden also allows a fairly high LD Rate. Its the result of falling behing and then as you so acurately described throwing a 3-1 pitch "across the plate" instead of locating the pitch inside or outside.

BABIP is so grossly misinterpreted.

It's simply the average on balls in play.

If you want to isolate 3-1 counts and things like that, you can.


His control and his command are two different things.

fresh prince
12-05-2012, 07:26 PM
It's simply the average on balls in play.

If you want to isolate 3-1 counts and things like that, you can.


His control and his command are two different things.

Im aware of what the acronym stands for. Its not simply average on balls in play IMO there is a reason why a dudes BABIP is high or low. Its an overlooked AND misinterpreted metric. Often merely chalked up to luck. When for a pitcher allowing a low BABIP consistently is generally a result of command/ control. That combined with movement and changing speeds is what makes pitchers hard to hit.

Walden does none of those other things well. He is a one trick pony (Velocity).

Jeffy25
12-05-2012, 07:36 PM
Im aware of what the acronym stands for. Its not simply average on balls in play IMO there is a reason why a dudes BABIP is high or low. Its an overlooked AND misinterpreted metric. Often merely chalked up to luck.
It is often times misinterpreted, but the reasons for it to be low or high can be found.

Line drive rates, ground ball, fly ball rates, velocity of contact off the bat, speed of the runner etc. There isn't an isolation for what it can and can not do. That's why....it is very simply, just the average of balls that are in play.


When for a pitcher allowing a low BABIP consistently is generally a result of command/ control. That combined with movement and changing speeds is what makes pitchers hard to hit.

I think you are trying to extend babip to command and control, and it doesn't really have much to do with control, but it can with command.

flea
12-05-2012, 07:39 PM
Im aware of what the acronym stands for. Its not simply average on balls in play IMO there is a reason why a dudes BABIP is high or low. Its an overlooked AND misinterpreted metric. Often merely chalked up to luck. When for a pitcher allowing a low BABIP consistently is generally a result of command/ control. That combined with movement and changing speeds is what makes pitchers hard to hit.

Walden does none of those other things well. He is a one trick pony (Velocity).

By and large, BABIP is based on luck when you're dealing with major league pitchers because their talent level is so high. Of course if you or I pitched we'd have a BABIP of .800 or more.

Naturally some pitchers have different BABIPs because of their profile (e.g. groundballers have higher BABIPs because ground balls are more likely to be hits than fly balls). But by and large, a BABIP of .311 for a single season is just not indicative of anything really. I mean the league average BABIP last year was .297. That's hardly a difference at all.

Jeffy25
12-05-2012, 07:42 PM
By and large, BABIP is based on luck when you're dealing with major league pitchers because their talent level is so high. Of course if you or I pitched we'd have a BABIP of .800 or more.

Naturally some pitchers have different BABIPs because of their profile (e.g. groundballers have higher BABIPs because ground balls are more likely to be hits than fly balls). But by and large, a BABIP of .311 for a single season is just not indicative of anything really. I mean the league average BABIP last year was .297. That's hardly a difference at all.

And it's a career .307 (mlb average during his career is .298) and he has only pitched 114 big league innings.