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View Full Version : Pop's decision should raise more question about NBA rather than Pop



Manimal
11-30-2012, 12:29 PM
Let's see here, the NBA gives the Spurs a schedule of 6 road games in 9 days on the east coast.

They pull off a 5-1 record in that schedule which included a double overtime game. And now they start a home stand with their best players well rested with a good chance of being 9-1 in the last 10 games if they win all three of their very winnable games at home.

Could Pop have rested Ducan, Ginobili and Parker against Orlando? He could but they would still be on the road rather than at home spending time with their families unwinding. And the reserves could very well have lost to Orlando and then the starters could have lost to Miami and then a tired team coming off a brutal road trip would go up against Memphis. So he would have gone 0-2 against Orlando and Miami and then had a tired team against Memphis. Would there be such a hooplah had Pop rested the big three against Orlando? No one would care. He has done it before and no sanctions were handed out.

But isn't it better to take the easier win against Orlando and be well rested for Memphis. All wins count the same, don't they?

The questions Pop decision raises against the NBA:

1.) The Schedule

Let's face it, 82 games in a season is too long. Many a time have we seen teams mail-it-in on the second night of a back to back. But yeah somehow we are supposed to believe that it's better to have a tired Duncan on the floor not bringing it. If the NBA really cares about it's nationally televised game, then may be it should make sure both teams come into said televised game well rested. Spurs were handicapped for this match anyway, playing 6th game in 9 days whereas the Heat were coming off a two day rest.

Or better yet how about having fewer games in the season so there can be more rest days in between. If you are so concerned about the quality of the product, then do something productive about increasing the quality rather than handing out sanctions.

2.) Quality of competition

For all the ridiculous notions of parity, being very honest good teams like the Spurs, Heat, OKC etc have about 40 games on their schedule which they are gonna win if they really tried. The rest are against quality teams which could go either way depending on schedule and injuries.

Does it not make more sense to pick and choose among those remaining games about 15 that have ****ed by the schedule and let them go. It gives a team a better shot at the remaining games. And good teams can do this because frankly there a lot of teams out there which are just terrible,. Well coached professional teams can just show up in places like Washington, Charlotte, Orlando, Toronto, New Orleans, Phoenix, Cleveland etc and pick wins. Every win counts the same and a win against Orlando is the same as a win against at the end of the season.

Pop is just clever enough to use that to his advantage. You can't sanction coaches when 1/3 of your league puts up a poor product night in night out and you reward them with the most talented player coming through.

3. Who is Pop held responsible to? Miami fans or San Antonio fans?

NBA cuts his team a ridiculous schedule. Is he supposed to be more concerned about putting up a show in Miami and then running out a bunch of tired old geezers in San Antonio. Isn't he supposed to save his teams best for when they are at home in front of their own fans?

This isn't a decision against the spirit of the game. This wasn't tanking. This was Pop living and coaching in the reality of the situations put in front of him by the NBA. Isn't that his job? Is he a promoter or a coach? A marketing guy or a basketball guy?

They say the fans are cheated, they paid good money to see these guys play. Well ask the NBA to give it back. They created this schedule. They created a situation in which a team was playing it's 4th game in 5 days against a team coming off two days of rest. The NBA created a no-win situation for Pop. And when he surrendered to the situation they are gonna sanction him.

LOOTERX9
11-30-2012, 01:02 PM
Then the spurs players should just retire if they can't handle the nba schedule. This is the pro's dude. If you can't handle the schedule well then you should not be playing in the league making millions of dollars..You make millions to entertain the fans, it's not all bout just playing a basketball game.

futureman
11-30-2012, 01:05 PM
It could be possible that this decision came from ownership. The best reason this would've happened is because the owner may be involved in gambling against his own team and getting big payoffs from it.

Manimal
11-30-2012, 01:09 PM
Then the spurs players should just retire if they can't handle the nba schedule. This is the pro's dude. If you can't handle the schedule well then you should not be playing in the league making millions of dollars..You make millions to entertai the fans, it's not all bout just playing a basketball game.

Way to miss the point. They can rest players on tough nights and still finish with a a great record. They finished with the best record in the Western Conference two years running even when resting players.

Now why the **** does Stern fine them?

Manimal
11-30-2012, 01:10 PM
It could be possible that this decision came from ownership. The best reason this would've happened is because the owner may be involved in gambling against his own team and getting big payoffs from it.

Is that why they almost won the match while playing with their second unit?

Yanks All Day
11-30-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm sure the Spurs fans would be much happier with a rested team making a deep run into the playoffs than exhausting themselves during the regular season. Yeah, the fans who paid to see the game might have been disappointed, but Pop's job is to win championships, not to entertain people. There is no issue with what Pop did, nor should Stern reprimand the Spurs.

djohn2oo8
11-30-2012, 01:16 PM
He shouldn't have sent them straight home. At least have them show up at the game and rest.

Hellcrooner
11-30-2012, 01:17 PM
I disagree that 82 games is too long.

BUT i do think the season is TOO SHORT.

It should start in mid september ( first half of september for preseason), and thus less back to backs, more time out between games, more time to rest, less injurys, more time for training and tactical learning = Better Product.

I mean, come on a lottery teams plaeyrs would rest may, june, july , agust, four ****ing months, the champions? two months and a half.

Thats friggin enough.

SanAntonioSpurs23
11-30-2012, 01:20 PM
Then the spurs players should just retire if they can't handle the nba schedule. This is the pro's dude. If you can't handle the schedule well then you should not be playing in the league making millions of dollars..You make millions to entertai the fans, it's not all bout just playing a basketball game.

You're an idiot. They should retire yet they have had the best record in the league 2 years in a row? Oh yeah they made the WCF as well. Maybe Pop and the Spurs know what they are doing?

Why non Spurs fans are upset doesn't make any sense to me. If anything I should be mad i didn't get to see my favorite players. However i know that to make a strong playoff run the Spurs need to rest and manage the minutes of the big three so they are healthy when it really matters!

LOOTERX9
11-30-2012, 01:21 PM
I'm sure the Spurs fans would be much happier with a rested team making a deep run into the playoffs than exhausting themselves during the regular season. Yeah, the fans who paid to see the game might have been disappointed, but Pop's job is to win championships, not to entertain people. There is no issue with what Pop did, nor should Stern reprimand the Spurs.

The problem is more of the fact that other teams will start doing what pop did this early in the season. That will destroy the NBA's brand...Can't have marquee games such as last night and christmas day be destroyed by having players rested. Come on now, pop could have rested these players in a different way than he did here.

torocan
11-30-2012, 01:27 PM
Then the spurs players should just retire if they can't handle the nba schedule. This is the pro's dude. If you can't handle the schedule well then you should not be playing in the league making millions of dollars..You make millions to entertain the fans, it's not all bout just playing a basketball game.

The Spurs players will retire when they stop kicking everyone's butts.

Most games won last year? Spurs.
Most consecutive games won last year? Spurs.

3rd highest win percentage this year? Spurs.
Most road games this year? Spurs.

If the Spurs "can't handle the schedule" and they STILL keep kicking the butts of most of the League, maybe Stern should be looking for a Different team to fine...

Here's another interesting tidbit...

Chairman of the Owner's Association of the NBA? Holtman (Spurs)

Expect a lot of hand wringing by Stern, some minor slap on the wrist, and Pops to go on his merry way into the playoffs.... :D

Manimal
11-30-2012, 01:27 PM
The problem is more of the fact that other teams will start doing what pop did this early in the season. That will destroy the NBA's brand...Can't have marquee games such as last night and christmas day be destroyed by having players rested. Come on now, pop could have rested these players in a different way than he did here.

May be it will make the NBA understand that more rest for players equals better performances from them and also leads to longer careers. May be it won't destroy the NBA brand rather force the NBA to improve it's product.

6 road game is 9 days is a stupid schedule. Most teams play like **** when they are playing they're fourth game in five days.

SanAntonioSpurs23
11-30-2012, 01:30 PM
He shouldn't have sent them straight home. At least have them show up at the game and rest.

Why? If they aren't going to play then what's the point of having them fly to an away game when they would just have to fly right back after the game?

Il Mago50
11-30-2012, 01:33 PM
It's Pop's team and he's the best coach in the NBA from the past 20-30 years so let him do what he wants to.

Stern doing what he did was the stupidest thing I've ever seen, it's not like NBA fans have to be glued to the TV screen, if they don't wanna watch cuz the big 3 aren't playing for the Spurs then go out and get some fresh air, no one is holding a gun to your head.

SanAntonioSpurs23
11-30-2012, 01:33 PM
The problem is more of the fact that other teams will start doing what pop did this early in the season. That will destroy the NBA's brand...Can't have marquee games such as last night and christmas day be destroyed by having players rested. Come on now, pop could have rested these players in a different way than he did here.

Interesting, because this isn't the first time the Spurs have done this, and other NBA teams haven't followed the trend yet. What makes this game different? Your argument sucks..


Please explain how Pop should have rested his players.

Il Mago50
11-30-2012, 01:34 PM
And yes, Popovich is better then Phil.

Popovich has worked with much less talent compared to Phil and has shown to be able to get the most of his teams no matter the talent and make-up with a variety of systems and styles of play.

KingsPhillies
11-30-2012, 01:37 PM
The problem is more of the fact that other teams will start doing what pop did this early in the season. That will destroy the NBA's brand...Can't have marquee games such as last night and christmas day be destroyed by having players rested. Come on now, pop could have rested these players in a different way than he did here.

Pop's job is to coach the team, and do what he thinks is in the best interest of his players and franchise. I guarantee you he does not care one bit about TV ratings or advertising revenue. And he probably cares more about doing his job the way he sees fit than pleasing the fans. Sometimes the truth hurts, and life seems unfair. I should know, I'm a Kings fan.

Oh, and about destroying "the NBA's brand"...they're doing just fine in that regard on their own. The Spurs franchise is actually one of the few bright spots in this league. If other teams start resting players, that's not Pop's fault. He actually had reason to do so. Any other instance [from the Spurs or any other team] should be taken on a case-by-case basis. If a coach is habitually benching star players simply out of spite, then perhaps there is a problem...but that most certainly is not the case here.

king4day
11-30-2012, 01:43 PM
I can't see them being the only team that has to deal with this but it's up to Pops to make that decision. I think Stern is upset because the sponsers probably were mad that the entire team was missing and no one cared anymore.
In the end, Stern probably won't do anything. If he does, the Spurs will appeal and win, unless there's a stipulation about this.

JasonJohnHorn
11-30-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm of two minds. I understand why Pop did what he did, but at the same time, there are Spurs fans all over the country. I went to see the Spurs in Detroit for example, and there were a lot of Spurs jerseys in the building that night. Had Duncan and Manu and Parker not played that night, I would have been very upset.

The thing is, the Spurs (and other teams) did this last season, and nothing was said about it. If it was an issue, it should have been addressed then.

Is the schedule perfect? No. The Spurs have played 17 games so far, more than any other team. There are a handful of teams who have played 16 games, but Miami has only played 14 games so far. There are going to be times in the season where some teams are coming into a game with more games in the previous 4 nights than the other team, but hey, it happens.

Pop did what he thought was best. I'm sure the ownership supports him. Obviously Stern doesn't, but it's the nature of the beast.

It happens in football all the time when the seeding is set for the last week, lots of teams pull guys out and rest them for the playoffs.

That said, the Spurs bench almost beat the Heat starters... what does that say about Miami?

SanAntonioSpurs23
11-30-2012, 01:50 PM
I can't see them being the only team that has to deal with this but it's up to Pops to make that decision. I think Stern is upset because the sponsers probably were mad that the entire team was missing and no one cared anymore.
In the end, Stern probably won't do anything. If he does, the Spurs will appeal and win, unless there's a stipulation about this.

I'd be willing to bet that the Lakers, Heat, Knicks, Celtics etc don't have that type of schedule. No way the NBA allows the "golden teams" to play 4 away games in 5 days then have a prime time game on the 2nd night of a B2B.

sodaddicted
11-30-2012, 02:13 PM
Best article I've seen about the issue so far:

Three times last season, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich rested Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker in the same game. He’s done it before then as well. And he is far from the only coach to rest multiple key players in a game — Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson and other coaches have done it.

And while fans and media sometimes grumbled — “people paid good money to see those stars” — those moves always came without comment from the NBA.

But when Popovich rested his big three on Thursday night for a much anticipated, nationally televised game against the Miami Heat, fans were upset and David Stern stepped in with a statement.

“I apologize to all NBA fans. This was an unacceptable decision by the San Antonio Spurs and substantial sanctions will be forthcoming.”

This post is not a debate about whether Popovich did the right thing — I think he was well within his rights, our own Brett Pollakoff and plenty fans who tweeted me disagree saying Popovich needed to think of the league and the fans. That is a discussion for another day. (The game being competitive down to the final minute also has little bearing here.)

My point is this — Stern is about to change either NBA rules or at least how the rules are interpreted and enforced by going after the Spurs with some kind of fine and punishment. And once he does that he sets a new precedent that has to be carried out for every team all season long.

And everywhere Stern and the league step with this new rule there are landmines.

With a punishment to the Spurs, the league is saying Popovich’s move — resting healthy players at the end of a road trip even if they are tired — is bad for the overall business of the NBA and cannot be tolerated. While Stern has always been about marketing and league perception first and foremost, he has not ventured into telling coaches how to coach before and a punishment to the Spurs changes that.

David Stern may feel the fan’s frustration from Thursday but he has a lot of questions to think about if he is going to punish the Spurs:

• Why is this situation in Miami a violation of league rules when Popovich did the same thing in Portland last year and it wasn’t? More to the point, how is that line drawn? What is and is not a violation?

• Is it something that is not okay to do in November but would be permitted later in the season, say March? Is the disappointed 12-year-old who doesn’t get to see his favorite players in November justified in his anger but the 12-year-old who has tickets the final week of the season is not?

• Is resting players something that cannot be done for nationally televised games but is okay to do in other games? Does what market the game is in matter? To use the Spurs case as an example, was it wrong to do this in Miami on a Thursday but would have been okay in Orlando on Wednesday? (Be careful in saying publicly that the fans and ratings in big markets are more important that smaller ones.)

• How do you define what players can and cannot be sat? If it is wrong for Popovich to sit major stars like Duncan and Parker, what about if Bucks coach Scott Skiles sits Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings to rest them next week. Is that different? What players can and can’t be sat out? Is this a burden that falls only on teams with superstar players?

• Stern can’t use the “competitiveness” argument because the Spurs almost won that game, this is about the NBA’s star system and Stern pretty much has to own up to that here.

• What happens when Popovich wants to rest Duncan and to avoid a league fine Duncan suddenly has a minor foot or knee injury? By just a few weeks into any season you could make a case for every NBA player having a minor injury they should rest.

Wherever Stern steps on this issue there are potential landmines. He can’t say its wrong to do this in Miami but fine in Portland or other smaller market. He doesn’t want to get into dictating who a coach can and can’t play, but this skirts up against it. There is no easy way to define it. If he starts trying to define it by being competitive the Spurs were that.

In the past the league did not take action in these situations. Stern is changing how the rules are enforced if he acts to fine the Spurs here, and he is setting a new precedent that is going to apply to every team in the league going forward. He better think this through. Carefully.

Or it might be smarter if he just walked away from it altogether.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/david-stern-be-careful-where-you-step-in-punishing-popovich-spurs/

kdspurman
11-30-2012, 02:19 PM
Were sitting here talking about (no not practice) how a COACH is or isn't allowed to coach HIS team. That mind you has done this before without any issue.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 04:47 PM
Good post, I have never been off put by Sterns actions (Except for the new ball he tried to install), I even liked the dress code rule, but this is too far.

imagesrdecievin
11-30-2012, 07:31 PM
Pop didn't break any rules.

I predict a new rule that will apply to nationally televised games.

Jdawg
11-30-2012, 07:43 PM
It goes to show you that Stern's league is about entertainment and NOT basketball. Which lends to the theories about certain teams getting preferential treatment from league in regards to scheduling and whistles. It’s all about the money and that sucks!

evadatam5150
11-30-2012, 07:54 PM
Let's see here, the NBA gives the Spurs a schedule of 6 road games in 9 days on the east coast.

This isn't a decision against the spirit of the game. This wasn't tanking. This was Pop living and coaching in the reality of the situations put in front of him by the NBA. Isn't that his job? Is he a promoter or a coach? A marketing guy or a basketball guy?

They say the fans are cheated, they paid good money to see these guys play. Well ask the NBA to give it back. They created this schedule. They created a situation in which a team was playing it's 4th game in 5 days against a team coming off two days of rest. The NBA created a no-win situation for Pop. And when he surrendered to the situation they are gonna sanction him.

In short this is a cop out. Every team plays the schedule they're given and they should put their best foot forward with their best players if they are healthy enough to play irregardless of what you feel are bad circumstances. The fans lost out.. The fans do pay good money to see teams and their superstars play.. The fans who payed to see that game got cheated and the NBA didn't make the decision to send home key players.. The NBA might have caused the situation but Pop compounded things with his actions. It is what it is, they're professionals and they should have manned up instead of punting..

evadatam5150
11-30-2012, 08:00 PM
And yes, Popovich is better then Phil.

Popovich has worked with much less talent compared to Phil and has shown to be able to get the most of his teams no matter the talent and make-up with a variety of systems and styles of play.

Not sure what this has to do with Phillip Jackson but NO.. Again that debate will rage on and on and on with no end in site..

JEDean89
11-30-2012, 08:12 PM
Man, I am a Nuggets and Knicks fan and I absolutely admire both the Spurs organization and Gregg Popovich. Stern has always had a vendetta against the Spurs and it's amazing that they won 4 championships despite the ******** that this league has thrown at them. The Spurs are perhaps the classiest organization in basketball and all of Sports. They built their team right, their big 3 were all drafted, they rarely make big trades and are perhaps the best player developing organization in basketball. I honestly think Stern should be praising the Spurs and condemming other teams for not being able to do anything with their teams year after year. I mean come on, if there is no rule against what the Spurs did, how can they be fined? Also how does the league fining the Spurs 250,000 dollars do anything to give Justice to the "wronged" fans. Honestly Stern should be thrilled that a small market team is able to create marquee games such as this. So **** you Stern and to the Spurs and Popovich, keep doing what you are doing! Every real basketball fans likes the Spurs, if you don't, you don't like basketball.

Manimal
12-01-2012, 05:31 AM
In short this is a cop out. Every team plays the schedule they're given and they should put their best foot forward with their best players if they are healthy enough to play irregardless of what you feel are bad circumstances. The fans lost out.. The fans do pay good money to see teams and their superstars play.. The fans who payed to see that game got cheated and the NBA didn't make the decision to send home key players.. The NBA might have caused the situation but Pop compounded things with his actions. It is what it is, they're professionals and they should have manned up instead of punting..

Their professionals whose job is to try and win the championship. They are professional atheletes, they play to win. Not WWE "sports entertainers" who perform to a schedule.

nr19
12-01-2012, 06:03 AM
I don't buy the ''they owe the fans'' argument. The players and coaches owe it to themselves to do everything possible to WIN. A game in late November means absolutely nothing. The fans that buy tickets see NBA players regardless, this isn't a concert or UFC or WWE where you go to see a few select people. Pro sports is about the teams.

I dont blame the Spurs.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 06:08 AM
Best article I've seen about the issue so far:

• Why is this situation in Miami a violation of league rules when Popovich did the same thing in Portland last year and it wasn’t? More to the point, how is that line drawn? What is and is not a violation?

• Is it something that is not okay to do in November but would be permitted later in the season, say March? Is the disappointed 12-year-old who doesn’t get to see his favorite players in November justified in his anger but the 12-year-old who has tickets the final week of the season is not?

• Is resting players something that cannot be done for nationally televised games but is okay to do in other games? Does what market the game is in matter? To use the Spurs case as an example, was it wrong to do this in Miami on a Thursday but would have been okay in Orlando on Wednesday? (Be careful in saying publicly that the fans and ratings in big markets are more important that smaller ones.)

• How do you define what players can and cannot be sat? If it is wrong for Popovich to sit major stars like Duncan and Parker, what about if Bucks coach Scott Skiles sits Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings to rest them next week. Is that different? What players can and can’t be sat out? Is this a burden that falls only on teams with superstar players?

• Stern can’t use the “competitiveness” argument because the Spurs almost won that game, this is about the NBA’s star system and Stern pretty much has to own up to that here.

• What happens when Popovich wants to rest Duncan and to avoid a league fine Duncan suddenly has a minor foot or knee injury? By just a few weeks into any season you could make a case for every NBA player having a minor injury they should rest.

Wherever Stern steps on this issue there are potential landmines. He can’t say its wrong to do this in Miami but fine in Portland or other smaller market. He doesn’t want to get into dictating who a coach can and can’t play, but this skirts up against it. There is no easy way to define it. If he starts trying to define it by being competitive the Spurs were that.

In the past the league did not take action in these situations. Stern is changing how the rules are enforced if he acts to fine the Spurs here, and he is setting a new precedent that is going to apply to every team in the league going forward. He better think this through. Carefully.

Or it might be smarter if he just walked away from it altogether.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/david-stern-be-careful-where-you-step-in-punishing-popovich-spurs/

1st point - because this was a nationally televised game and tnt didn't like it as an nba partner.

2nd point - well late in the year looking at a teams record you can expect a team to be resting starters if you know basketball at all. you shouldn't have to guess on that early on barring injury.

3rd point - i agree it shouldn't be based on tv ratings, but players should actually be hurt or at least list them that way or else you're making the league look bad, at least keep them with the team don't send them home.

4th point - players that are hurt/sick or rehabbing from injury. at least try and sell it that way don't try and purposely make the league look bad.

5th point - no he doesn't, they could of sat out vs the other teams, pop says this wasn't about the heat but it clearly was, he calculated his chances of winning and figured the heat was the most likely loss out of the road trip so chose that game despite it getting the most attention.

6th point - then list him as injured and just rest him not 4 players lol not to mention sending them home. pop tried to give the league the finger for the scheduling but every team has a 4 games in 5 nights spot on the schedule.

dodie53
12-01-2012, 06:12 AM
nba players are paid to play not to rest.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 06:24 AM
nba players are paid to play not to rest.

Clearly the Spurs players don't ever play. **** off.

Ebbs
12-01-2012, 06:33 AM
nba players are paid to play not to rest.

I'm with ya

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 06:38 AM
I don't think anyone has tried traveling for five nights in a row and playing four of them You are ****ing exhausted, which increases the chance of injury. And if you don't condition to avoid exhaustion, the lack of conditioning will also increase the chance of injury.

If you think Pop is going to risk a major injury in ****ing November or he should risk an injury for a November game, you are wrong.

Reference point as to why he chose this game: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/479729_170656546413430_1388361033_n.jpg

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 06:45 AM
I don't think anyone has tried traveling for five nights in a row and playing four of them You are ****ing exhausted, which increases the chance of injury. And if you don't condition to avoid exhaustion, the lack of conditioning will also increase the chance of injury.

If you think Pop is going to risk a major injury in ****ing November or he should risk an injury for a November game, you are wrong.

Reference point as to why he chose this game: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/479729_170656546413430_1388361033_n.jpg

i have in fact and it was 2 games a day. it was just highschool but still i didn't get paid millions to do it. pop didn't need to rest all 4 players at once when none of them had an injury, let alone send them home on a commercial flight. and he could of rested them against a weaker opponent instead of in the game that garnered the most attention on national tv. it was clearly a move that indicated he thought they'd lose anyways in that game so he played them against the opponents he thought they'd beat instead deciding to throw that game, although with the way the heat play down to their competition nothing is for sure.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 06:48 AM
i have in fact and it was 2 games a day. it was just highschool but still i didn't get paid millions to do it. pop didn't need to rest all 4 players at once when none of them had an injury, let alone send them home on a commercial flight. and he could of rested them against a weaker opponent instead of in the game that garnered the most attention on national tv. it was clearly a move that indicated he thought they'd lose anyways in that game so he played them against the opponents he thought they'd beat instead deciding to throw that game, although with the way the heat play down to their competition nothing is for sure.


You are also not leading the league in minutes, a 30 year old, a 32 year old, and a 36 year old. Not to mention once with a past of injuries.

His job is to win the most games. Why would he minimize the chance to beat an opponent he will beat vs a much tougher opponent at home with multiple days to game plan for a team coming off a back to back. Pop didn't think they'd lose inherently, he already knows which games his team gets a rest on. And Pop also clearly did not phone it in as he game planned like a master chess player.

He will do this again on December 13th.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 06:51 AM
You are also not leading the league in minutes, a 30 year old, a 32 year old, and a 36 year old. Not to mention once with a past of injuries.

His job is to win the most games. Why would he minimize the chance to beat an opponent he will beat vs a much tougher opponent at home with multiple days to game plan for a team coming off a back to back. Pop didn't think they'd lose inherently, he already knows which games his team gets a rest on. And Pop also clearly did not phone it in as he game planned like a master chess player.

He will do this again on December 13th.

he said that he knew they'd take this game off the minute the schedule came out. yet he kept quite knowing it was wrong and let the fans buy tickets and waste their money. i'll say this, i don't think it deserved the fine but it still wasn't right.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 06:52 AM
he said that he knew they'd take this game off the minute the schedule came out. yet he kept quite knowing it was wrong and let the fans buy tickets and waste their money. i'll say this, i don't think it deserved the fine but it still wasn't right.

Shocking. He didn't let another team know their game plan. Clearly letting them know would have helped the Spurs win, right?

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 06:54 AM
Shocking. He didn't let another team know their game plan. Clearly letting them know would have helped the Spurs win, right?

lol whatever, the heat had a let down but seriously he knew he was throwing the game no question. you can't call benching your 4 best players a game plan.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 06:56 AM
lol whatever, the heat had a let down but seriously he knew he was throwing the game no question.

The Heat game planned for the Spurs starters. The Spurs second unit game planned for the starters. He didn't know he was going to lose. That's why he didn't announce it ahead of time. The late announcement was for the competitive edge.

Not only did he get his better players more rest to help them optimize the rest of the regular season and he gave his second unit, which is pretty ****ing awesome, the best chance to win.

And you obviously don't know what a game plan is or what I am talking about. His team that was going to play, watched film, learned tendencies, and executed plays, which helped them best exploit the Heat. Heat did the same thing, except for players they didn't play against.

That's why it was close.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 06:59 AM
The Heat game planned for the Spurs starters. The Spurs second unit game planned for the starters. He didn't know he was going to lose. That's why he didn't announce it ahead of time. The late announcement was for the competitive edge.

Not only did he get his better players more rest, but he gave his second unit, which is pretty ****ing awesome, the best chance to win.

And you obviously don't know what a game plan is or what I am talking about. His team that was going to play, watched film, learned tendencies, and executed plays, which helped them best exploit the Heat. Heat did the same thing, except for players they didn't play against.

That's why it was close.

lol i definitely know what a game plan is. it was only close because the heat play down to their competition. just look at their last game against the cavs without irving. miami needs to put teams away it pisses me off, but they don't and thats just a fact. they're cocky and think they can just win it by showing up in the last minute. which so far has worked since they're 9-0 in games that are within 5 points with under 5 minutes left (only undefeated team in the league in that situation) but it's playing with fire.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:02 AM
lol i definitely know what a game plan is. it was only close because the heat play down to their competition. just look at their last game against the cavs without irving. miami needs to put teams away it pisses me off, but they don't and thats just a fact.

No, it's not a fact. It's an excuse for piss poor play. Part of the reason it was close was not just because of the game plan, but because Popovich just out coached Spoelstra. No matter what Spoelstra did, he countered it with something even better. Just watch Pop coach and enjoy.

If Pop was throwing games there would be a problem, but he isn't. He is doing what is best for his team to help them win a chip.

Just so you know, the Heat do this to, but they lie about the injuries instead.

Also, close games, the random variation is extremely high and that is not a sustainable rate. Games that close always average out to be 45-55 percent.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:05 AM
No, it's not a fact. It's an excuse for piss poor play. Part of the reason it was close was not just because of the game plan, but because Popovich just out coached Spoelstra. No matter what Spoelstra did, he countered it with something even better. Just watch Pop coach and enjoy.

If Pop was throwing games there would be a problem, but he isn't. He is doing what is best for his team to help them win a chip.

Just so you know, the Heat do this to, but they lie about the injuries instead.

Also, close games, the random variation is extremely high and that is not a sustainable rate. Games that close always average out to be 45-55 percent.

exactly, pop tried to make the league look bad because he was pissed about the schedule. other teams at least make up a reason and don't bench the entire starting lineup at once, they just rest a player or 2 at a time.

and yes it is a fact, you really think miami would struggle like that against that lineup in the playoffs? lol hell no!

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:09 AM
exactly, pop tried to make the league look bad because he was pissed about the schedule. other teams at least make up a reason and don't bench the entire starting lineup at once, they just rest a player or 2 at a time.

and yes it is a fact, you really think miami would struggle like that against that lineup in the playoffs? lol hell no!

If they weren't adequately prepared for a game, of course they would. Especially when the gap in talent for coaching is so big between the two. They weren't adequately prepared for the second unit because they spent all their free time on the first unit. It happens.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:14 AM
If they weren't adequately prepared for a game, of course they would. Especially when the gap in talent for coaching is so big between the two. They weren't adequately prepared for the second unit because they spent all their free time on the first unit. It happens.

pop is definitely a much better coach then spo but like bosh said there was a let down. lebron would of attacked the rim way more in a meaningful game and the heat would of tighten up the defense just like they did down the stretch to clinch it. miami just sleepwalked throught that game then won it when it came down to the wire. i hate that about them, i wish they'd kill the teams that have no business being on the court with them but they tend to let them hang around and toy with them then put them away at the last minute. lets not kid ourselves, the heat don't need to prepare to beat a 2nd unit if they care about the game.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:15 AM
pop is definitely a much better coach then spo but like bosh said there was a let down. lebron would of attacked the rim way more in a meaningful game and the heat would of tighten up the defense just like they did down the stretch to clinch it. miami just sleepwalked throught that game then won it when it came down to the wire. i hate that about them, i wish they'd kill the teams that have no business being on the court with them but they tend to let them hang around and toy with them then put them away at the last minute.

He didn't attack the rim a lot because the Spurs didn't let him. They played a zone. Same thing Dallas did in 2011.

Spurs bench is also one of the most offensive efficient bench in the league. So if you don't prepare for that there are going to be obvious struggles.

Heat, if prepared for the second unit, would crush it, but they weren't and if the same circumstance of unpreparedness happened in the playoffs, the result would have been similar.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:21 AM
He didn't attack the rim a lot because the Spurs didn't let him. They played a zone. Same thing Dallas did in 2011.

Spurs bench is also one of the most offensive efficient bench in the league. So if you don't prepare for that there are going to be obvious struggles.

Heat, if prepared for the second unit, would crush it, but they weren't and if the same circumstance of unpreparedness happened in the playoffs, the result would have been similar.

i just can't agree with the bolded. wade and lebron would force the issue, no way would the spurs shoot more fts then miami in a playoff game with that lineup. and lebron would of went to the post more(something he didn't have in the dallas series) drawing the double and finding the 3pt shooters. the fact that ray allen only shot 3 3pters all game against a zone is proof that miami didn't play aggressive. they would of brought a much better effort in a playoff game no matter what anyone says.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:24 AM
It doesn't matter if you agree. If you don't know your opponents tendencies and they know yours, you are going to be at an inherent disadvantage especially when Pop is telling you how to exploit those tendencies.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:29 AM
It doesn't matter if you agree. If you don't know your opponents tendencies and they know yours, you are going to be at an inherent disadvantage especially when Pop is telling you how to exploit those tendencies.

well i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. i enjoyed this discussion and i respect your opinion. but the talent gap is just too large for a game plan to make that big a difference. the heat have shown a tendency to play down to the competition all season long. 9 out of their 11 wins have come down to a 5 point game in the final 5 mins. its just the way they've been playing and wade isn't himself right now. also miami is giving up a ton of threes in the regular season and did last year as well. in the playoffs they lock it down much better. against the knicks last year novak couldn't hardy even get a 3point attempt they were covering him so close. i don't see miami struggling against a unit like that if they know its a meaningful game aka a playoff game.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:30 AM
They haven't been playing down to their competition, Wade is just not playing at the same level he once was.

He needs to develop a post game or his career will be shortened. His style of play, and his age is causing this decline.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:35 AM
They haven't been playing down to their competition, Wade is just not playing at the same level he once was.

He needs to develop a post game or his career will be shortened. His style of play, and his age is causing this decline.

they absolutely have been playing down to their competition. just look how poor the heat defense has been so far. last year it was outstanding and will be when it matters this year once again. and wade has a great post game it's very underrated and most people don't know how good it is, in fact derozan is watching tape of wade to try and develop his own post game. its the jumper he needs to work on.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:37 AM
they absolutely have been playing down to their competition. just look how poor the heat defense has been so far. last year it was outstanding and will be when it matters this year once again. and wade has a great post game it's very underrated and most people don't know how good it is, in fact derozan is watching tape of wade to try and develop his own post game. its the jumper he needs to work on.

Stop making excuses for your team.

Reason for defensive decline.

Dwade's decline.

Bosh moving to center.

Ray Allen is a defensive liability on the floor and he has been used a good amount.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:41 AM
Stop making excuses for your team.

Reason for defensive decline.

Dwade's decline.

Bosh moving to center.

Ray Allen is a defensive liability on the floor and he has been used a good amount.

lol wade is still an elite defender when he wants to be, and i agree allen is bad. but the bosh at center thing doesn't make any sense, he played center all playoffs. just watch, the heat will be in the finals again and their d will become elite once they get it going.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:47 AM
also you think they weren't prepared for the cavs at home without irving? of course they were, they just didn't show a killer instinct. down 7 with 1:43 left. i hate that about them, i wish they'd blow out every *****y team but they definitely play down to their opponents level like i keep saying. they always think they can pull it out in the end and so far they have every time but its not a good way to go about things. they won't do that in the playoffs. i'm not making excuses for them its just the way they are and i hate it but it's true.

Guppyfighter
12-01-2012, 07:49 AM
I am sure they were prepared. It wasn't playing down. Cavs played a good game.

SportsFanatic10
12-01-2012, 07:56 AM
I am sure they were prepared. It wasn't playing down. Cavs played a good game.

ok so why are 9 of the heats 11 wins considered closing out in the clutch (within 5 points with 5 min left). they're the only team in the league undefeated in that situation and they've been in it almost every game. if you watched that game vs the cavs, they were getting wide open 3s at will, that doesn't happen when miami cares about the game.

Manimal
12-01-2012, 08:03 AM
nba players are paid to play not to rest.

They are paid by the Spurs and not David Stern.

SteBO
12-01-2012, 08:27 AM
I am sure they were prepared. It wasn't playing down. Cavs played a good game.
Cavs and Spurs both played good games, and Miami due to let downs allowed a good chunk of it to occur. If you watched last nights BKN-ORL game, that's how MIA should to handling games like these.

But, they're in the NBA for a reason. Miami has to be professional enough to take teams seriously, and they haven't been doing it. Ray Allen has had to bail them out 3 times already. They're flirting with a sustained losing streak right now.

torocan
12-01-2012, 10:12 AM
In short this is a cop out. Every team plays the schedule they're given and they should put their best foot forward with their best players if they are healthy enough to play irregardless of what you feel are bad circumstances. The fans lost out.. The fans do pay good money to see teams and their superstars play.. The fans who payed to see that game got cheated and the NBA didn't make the decision to send home key players.. The NBA might have caused the situation but Pop compounded things with his actions. It is what it is, they're professionals and they should have manned up instead of punting..

This is crap.

The players are paid to give their Team the best chance of getting into the playoffs and winning a championship.

This does NOT mean that they are paid to play every single game, it means that they are paid to play When the team NEEDS them.

Lots of players are PAID to sit on the bench, play in the D-League, or play Very limited minutes on any given night.

The COACH decides IF and WHEN a player is NEEDED by the team on any given night. Pops decided he did not NEED those players that Night because he needed them MORE on different nights.

The problem with your assumption is that you want Checkers, Pops is playing CHESS. Fans want their teams to get a High seeding (win the MOST games they can) to get into the Playoffs, and make a deep playoff run for the Championship.

If Pops wins 10 more games in a season because he asks his players to Sit out now and then, he's doing what the Fans of basketball are TRULY asking of him.

Would Fans of Basketball really be happier if their Team played their players MORE but weren't as successful? Would they be happier if they had more injuries? Or a lower seeding? Or missed the playoffs? Or got knocked out earlier?

Fans who complain about Pops sitting players are looking for immediate satisfaction. OMG... He sat the stars! That's not what I paid to see!

Many of the rest of us are seeing it for what it is... an opportunity to see the Best Basketball organization in the NBA, being led by the best Coach in the NBA, that utilizes his Team in the Best way in the NBA.

Yes, it sucks if you bought a ticket hoping to see Duncan, Ginobli and Parker on that given night, but at the end of the year NOBODY will care at all about the results of that game when the playoffs roll around and Pops and the Spurs are giving yet Another clinic on how to play some of the best Team Basketball on the planet.

And So what if Every team started strategically resting their players? What would really happen then? Sure, some nights you wouldn't see as many stars, but guess what... You'd see a MUCH higher Overall level of Quality basketball played. MORE games where players are better rested, less injured, and able to give us the BEST basketball they can give.

The lockout season is a perfect example of this. Sure, we saw MORE basketball every week, and we saw the players Play more because of the schedule... but guess what? It was the UGLIEST basketball that you'll ever see due to fatigue, injuries, and lack of conditioning and practice time.

When I see Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett step on the floor, I want to see the BEST basketball they can play, not half-assed basketball because they're over fatigued, injured, and poorly conditioned.

I'd MUCH rather have them NOT play at all then watch them play like crap.

In the end, you want to trade a Marquee game today for better basketball Tomorrow. And that can't be good for the game in the long run.

Pops was right, and Stern was wrong.

effen5
12-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Stern should just retire now, he dropped the ball on this one.

jetsRsnitchaz
12-01-2012, 10:35 AM
Let's see here, the NBA gives the Spurs a schedule of 6 road games in 9 days on the east coast.

They pull off a 5-1 record in that schedule which included a double overtime game. And now they start a home stand with their best players well rested with a good chance of being 9-1 in the last 10 games if they win all three of their very winnable games at home.

Could Pop have rested Ducan, Ginobili and Parker against Orlando? He could but they would still be on the road rather than at home spending time with their families unwinding. And the reserves could very well have lost to Orlando and then the starters could have lost to Miami and then a tired team coming off a brutal road trip would go up against Memphis. So he would have gone 0-2 against Orlando and Miami and then had a tired team against Memphis. Would there be such a hooplah had Pop rested the big three against Orlando? No one would care. He has done it before and no sanctions were handed out.

But isn't it better to take the easier win against Orlando and be well rested for Memphis. All wins count the same, don't they?

The questions Pop decision raises against the NBA:

1.) The Schedule

Let's face it, 82 games in a season is too long. Many a time have we seen teams mail-it-in on the second night of a back to back. But yeah somehow we are supposed to believe that it's better to have a tired Duncan on the floor not bringing it. If the NBA really cares about it's nationally televised game, then may be it should make sure both teams come into said televised game well rested. Spurs were handicapped for this match anyway, playing 6th game in 9 days whereas the Heat were coming off a two day rest.

Or better yet how about having fewer games in the season so there can be more rest days in between. If you are so concerned about the quality of the product, then do something productive about increasing the quality rather than handing out sanctions.

2.) Quality of competition

For all the ridiculous notions of parity, being very honest good teams like the Spurs, Heat, OKC etc have about 40 games on their schedule which they are gonna win if they really tried. The rest are against quality teams which could go either way depending on schedule and injuries.

Does it not make more sense to pick and choose among those remaining games about 15 that have ****ed by the schedule and let them go. It gives a team a better shot at the remaining games. And good teams can do this because frankly there a lot of teams out there which are just terrible,. Well coached professional teams can just show up in places like Washington, Charlotte, Orlando, Toronto, New Orleans, Phoenix, Cleveland etc and pick wins. Every win counts the same and a win against Orlando is the same as a win against at the end of the season.

Pop is just clever enough to use that to his advantage. You can't sanction coaches when 1/3 of your league puts up a poor product night in night out and you reward them with the most talented player coming through.

3. Who is Pop held responsible to? Miami fans or San Antonio fans?

NBA cuts his team a ridiculous schedule. Is he supposed to be more concerned about putting up a show in Miami and then running out a bunch of tired old geezers in San Antonio. Isn't he supposed to save his teams best for when they are at home in front of their own fans?

This isn't a decision against the spirit of the game. This wasn't tanking. This was Pop living and coaching in the reality of the situations put in front of him by the NBA. Isn't that his job? Is he a promoter or a coach? A marketing guy or a basketball guy?

They say the fans are cheated, they paid good money to see these guys play. Well ask the NBA to give it back. They created this schedule. They created a situation in which a team was playing it's 4th game in 5 days against a team coming off two days of rest. The NBA created a no-win situation for Pop. And when he surrendered to the situation they are gonna sanction him.

you should be able to rest players when you want. it's not up to stern. stern has done plenty to screw up the nba, not pop. stern is a crooked prick

MickeyMgl
12-01-2012, 10:51 AM
The problem is more of the fact that other teams will start doing what pop did this early in the season. That will destroy the NBA's brand...

What is hurting the NBA's brand is that they have created a regular season and postseason schedule that reduces much of the regular season to an exhibition. They've made a schedule that incentivizes what Popovich is doing.

JPS
12-01-2012, 11:01 AM
Let's see here, the NBA gives the Spurs a schedule of 6 road games in 9 days on the east coast.

They pull off a 5-1 record in that schedule which included a double overtime game. And now they start a home stand with their best players well rested with a good chance of being 9-1 in the last 10 games if they win all three of their very winnable games at home.

Could Pop have rested Ducan, Ginobili and Parker against Orlando? He could but they would still be on the road rather than at home spending time with their families unwinding. And the reserves could very well have lost to Orlando and then the starters could have lost to Miami and then a tired team coming off a brutal road trip would go up against Memphis. So he would have gone 0-2 against Orlando and Miami and then had a tired team against Memphis. Would there be such a hooplah had Pop rested the big three against Orlando? No one would care. He has done it before and no sanctions were handed out.

But isn't it better to take the easier win against Orlando and be well rested for Memphis. All wins count the same, don't they?

The questions Pop decision raises against the NBA:

1.) The Schedule

Let's face it, 82 games in a season is too long. Many a time have we seen teams mail-it-in on the second night of a back to back. But yeah somehow we are supposed to believe that it's better to have a tired Duncan on the floor not bringing it. If the NBA really cares about it's nationally televised game, then may be it should make sure both teams come into said televised game well rested. Spurs were handicapped for this match anyway, playing 6th game in 9 days whereas the Heat were coming off a two day rest.

Or better yet how about having fewer games in the season so there can be more rest days in between. If you are so concerned about the quality of the product, then do something productive about increasing the quality rather than handing out sanctions.

2.) Quality of competition

For all the ridiculous notions of parity, being very honest good teams like the Spurs, Heat, OKC etc have about 40 games on their schedule which they are gonna win if they really tried. The rest are against quality teams which could go either way depending on schedule and injuries.

Does it not make more sense to pick and choose among those remaining games about 15 that have ****ed by the schedule and let them go. It gives a team a better shot at the remaining games. And good teams can do this because frankly there a lot of teams out there which are just terrible,. Well coached professional teams can just show up in places like Washington, Charlotte, Orlando, Toronto, New Orleans, Phoenix, Cleveland etc and pick wins. Every win counts the same and a win against Orlando is the same as a win against at the end of the season.

Pop is just clever enough to use that to his advantage. You can't sanction coaches when 1/3 of your league puts up a poor product night in night out and you reward them with the most talented player coming through.

3. Who is Pop held responsible to? Miami fans or San Antonio fans?

NBA cuts his team a ridiculous schedule. Is he supposed to be more concerned about putting up a show in Miami and then running out a bunch of tired old geezers in San Antonio. Isn't he supposed to save his teams best for when they are at home in front of their own fans?

This isn't a decision against the spirit of the game. This wasn't tanking. This was Pop living and coaching in the reality of the situations put in front of him by the NBA. Isn't that his job? Is he a promoter or a coach? A marketing guy or a basketball guy?

They say the fans are cheated, they paid good money to see these guys play. Well ask the NBA to give it back. They created this schedule. They created a situation in which a team was playing it's 4th game in 5 days against a team coming off two days of rest. The NBA created a no-win situation for Pop. And when he surrendered to the situation they are gonna sanction him.

you should be able to rest players when you want. it's not up to stern. stern has done plenty to screw up the nba, not pop. stern is a crooked prick

While I agree that Pop should be able to rest his guys. He sent 4 guys home for a nationaly televised game. He was making a very large F U statement to the NBA schedule makers more than resting people in November. Stern just answered with a F U of his own.

Manimal
12-01-2012, 11:08 AM
While I agree that Pop should be able to rest his guys. He sent 4 guys home for a nationaly televised game. He was making a very large F U statement to the NBA schedule makers more than resting people in November. Stern just answered with a F U of his own.

Yup, but Pop's FU actually made sense. Stern's FU is that of senile guy on a power trip.

Sly Guy
12-01-2012, 11:11 AM
The problem is more of the fact that other teams will start doing what pop did this early in the season. That will destroy the NBA's brand...Can't have marquee games such as last night and christmas day be destroyed by having players rested. Come on now, pop could have rested these players in a different way than he did here.

I'm pretty sure the move was a statement to the league made by pop, and probably why stern's so mad about it.

But this isn't new, Pop's rested his guys in this way before, and a shorthanded spurs team always seems to play strong regardless. Without their top 4 scorers, the spurs were ahead late and only lost by 5 to the defending champs? That's still entertaining basketball, regardless of what guys are on the floor.

The league has no right to force personelle decisions n the teams. Say I paid for a ticket to a game late last year where the bulls' were coming to town before rose got injured. Do I have the right to demand a refund because he can't play? How do I know he's actually injured and it's not some excuse give Rose the day off? What about teams that rest guys for the playoffs in the last few games of the season? What obligations to the fans to those teams have? What about teams who fabricate injuries to key players during a losing season to increase their chances in the lottery?

There's just too many ways to apply this type of discipline unevenly, and Stern's taken the wrong course of action here. What his decision is exemplifying is the tiered system the NBA is run on now.

Would Stern have fined the Spurs if the game wasn't nationally televised? Probably not.

The spurs got fined likely cuz pop seems to like to go out of his way to make the statement about the schedule being brutal at times and thumbing his nose at the league by pulling his players. He's asking for it, but even still, it's not Stern's place to micromanage the rosters of the teams.

Personally I'm outraged by the fine, and I'm not a spurs, nor heat fan. To me, this type of management of the league is just another example to me of what a farce the NBA has become. Unfortunately, with hockey out, and the NCAA season only just beginning, it's the only ticket in town for me.

X12Celtics3
12-01-2012, 11:15 AM
Popovich only did what was best for his team and his team's chances of success going forward. If Stern doesn't want things like that to happen, he should explore different scheduling possibilities or, even better, retire now and try to give power to somebody more competent.

The fine doesn't seem to have any precedent, either... teams rest players at the end of the season regularly, yet no fine is given. So then the fine seems to be not for resting players, but for doing so in a nationally televised game, which is obviously not fair. Either resting players is okay or it isn't (...but really, it obviously is), and Stern can't just pick and choose which instances deserve punishment.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 11:27 AM
How many of you guys that are complaining about not being good for the league or the fans, but have sat back and seen teams tank and been perfectly fine with it. So what Pop wants to rest his guys 7-8 times on an 82 game schedule. If he's got a good enough record to pull it off, more power to him. Having 2 days off in a row for his players has proven to be effective when they return to the court.

There's nothing but a bunch of hypocrites on here. It's OK to rest them, just can't be early in the season, or on National TV, or against another elite team? Yea that makes sense....

Hulk6
12-01-2012, 11:29 AM
If you dont watch a team play because a certain player or players arent playing then you arent a true fan.

And there are 82 games in a season stop crying about 1,

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 11:44 AM
He shouldn't have sent them straight home. At least have them show up at the game and rest.

Absolutely.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Absolutely.

Seriously makes absolutely NO difference except you can see them there. But they're still not playing. You're not going to be staring at Tony Parker on the bench while the game is going on. :facepalm:

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:00 PM
TD, Parker, Ginobli, Green sitting on the bench in street clothes = Not playing
TD, Parker, Ginobli, Green flying back to SA = Not playing

Stern would've most likely *****ed about it anyways. Stern is just being biased towards the teams that have the star power because he wouldn't have cared if Pop rested his guys against Orlando the night previous. And I'm a Heat fan. Why is this hard to pick up on?

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 12:01 PM
Stern was right in fining them. This is a business as much as it is a sport. This game was on national tv and you expect to see both teams best players play. Its still early in the season to make excuses to rest players.

They get paid millions to do what they do and as a fan i want to see top notch competition. You also ruin the brand by doing stuff like this especially in a nationally televised game. You dont see the celtics or knicks who have very old teams doing this. Resting one player or two is fine but 4?! Cmon now...its almost like forfitting a game honestly.

Bet pop wont do something like this again. They raise ticket prices according to teams therefore heat fans paid more to see the spurs why?! Because tony parker manu ginobli and tim duncan.


No matter what you protect the brand. Pop could have rested them at a home game where fans see these players all the time. Not in a nationally televised game in miami.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:05 PM
They are paid by the Spurs and not David Stern.

NBA players, their teams and the NBA league office employees including David stern are all paid from advertising revenue, ticket sales, and TV rights a to broadcast these games.

Screw around and throw games by not playing your stars, messes with the revenue source.

If each team Did the same thing, advertisers would start picking and choosing which games to spend millions on. Fans would stop watching marquee matchups and the NBA as we know it would become a circus.

I can see it now, "this Wednesday on TNT the Lakers invade Beantown....Rondo, kg, and pierce battle Kobe, Dwight, Nash and Gasol. ....unless the lakers coming off a game against Brooklyn the night before decide to send Kobe, Nash, and Howard home to rest. Tune into TNT, maybe you'll get to watch Jordan Hill explode and thrown into the fire!"

"This game brought to you by Chysler, Budweiser, and t mobile, or if the stars are resting, this game sponsored by, Dave's homemade beef jerky, Sabrina's sewing shack and crabs R Us. "

You start manipulating who plays and when they play and you spit in the face of the machine that funds you.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:06 PM
TD, Parker, Ginobli, Green sitting on the bench in street clothes = Not playing
TD, Parker, Ginobli, Green flying back to SA = Not playing

Stern would've most likely *****ed about it anyways. Stern is just being biased towards the teams that have the star power because he wouldn't have cared if Pop rested his guys against Orlando the night previous. And I'm a Heat fan. Why is this hard to pick up on?

Do you think the league starts fining teams for tanking? Or is tanking good for the league and the fans because they aren't elite teams?

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:07 PM
Stern was right in fining them. This is a business as much as it is a sport. This game was on national tv and you expect to see both teams best players play. Its still early in the season to make excuses to rest players.

They get paid millions to do what they do and as a fan i want to see top notch competition. You also ruin the brand by doing stuff like this especially in a nationally televised game. You dont see the celtics or knicks who have very old teams doing this. Resting one player or two is fine but 4?! Cmon now...its almost like forfitting a game honestly.

Bet pop wont do something like this again. They raise ticket prices according to teams therefore heat fans paid more to see the spurs why?! Because tony parker manu ginobli and tim duncan.

No matter what you protect the brand. Pop could have rested them at a home game where fans see these players all the time. Not in a nationally televised game in miami.

I don't think you know Pop so well. He's going to continue doing what's best for his team, and I'm fairly certain he will again.

torocan
12-01-2012, 12:08 PM
Stern was right in fining them. This is a business as much as it is a sport. This game was on national tv and you expect to see both teams best players play. Its still early in the season to make excuses to rest players.

You don't need excuses to rest players, all you need is the statistical facts on the impact of rest in terms of quality of play and risk of injury.

Teams play WORSE coming off back to backs, and in latter games of 4/5 stretches.

They play WORSE with 1 day of rest vs 2 days of rest.

Here's some number crunching on impact of play stretches on the QUALITY of play. http://godismyjudgeok.com/DStats/APBRmetrics_Old/viewtopic.php@t=2661.html

Team rates of injury go UP in the 2nd half of back to backs and in the latter games of long stretches like 4/5s.

Team rates of injury to UP when players receive only one day of rest vs 2 days of rest.

Pops always wants to win the most games possible. He's also the best coach in the league. This isn't an accident.

Pops made the best decision for his team to put the best product on the floor over an ENTIRE season. It just happens that the simple math and implications of Miami being an opposing conference team put the Miami game as a low priority game in terms of pushing his Stars.

That's what it means when a Coach puts his team's HEALTH and WINNING first.

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 12:08 PM
they are paid by the spurs and not david stern.

nba players, their teams and the nba league office employees including david stern are all paid from advertising revenue, ticket sales, and tv rights a to broadcast these games.

Screw around and throw games by not playing your stars, messes with the revenue source.

If each team did the same thing, advertisers would start picking and choosing which games to spend millions on. Fans would stop watching marquee matchups and the nba as we know it would become a circus.

I can see it now, "this wednesday on tnt the lakers invade beantown....rondo, kg, and pierce battle kobe, dwight, nash and gasol. ....unless the lakers coming off a game against brooklyn the night before decide to send kobe, nash, and howard home to rest. Tune into tnt, maybe you'll get to watch jordan hill explode and thrown into the fire!"

"this game brought to you by chysler, budweiser, and t mobile, or if the stars are resting, this game sponsored by, dave's homemade beef jerky, sabrina's sewing shack and crabs r us. "

you start manipulating who plays and when they play and you spit in the face of the machine that funds you.

exactly!!! You get it..were on the same page. People really have to see the big picture in this all.

torocan
12-01-2012, 12:13 PM
Stern was right in fining them. This is a business as much as it is a sport. This game was on national tv and you expect to see both teams best players play. Its still early in the season to make excuses to rest players.

They get paid millions to do what they do and as a fan i want to see top notch competition. You also ruin the brand by doing stuff like this especially in a nationally televised game. You dont see the celtics or knicks who have very old teams doing this. Resting one player or two is fine but 4?! Cmon now...its almost like forfitting a game honestly.

Bet pop wont do something like this again. They raise ticket prices according to teams therefore heat fans paid more to see the spurs why?! Because tony parker manu ginobli and tim duncan.

No matter what you protect the brand. Pop could have rested them at a home game where fans see these players all the time. Not in a nationally televised game in miami.

If you want to see top notch competition, then the NBA shouldn't force a Coach to choose between the Health and competitiveness of his team against supporting the revenue stream.

The schedule was ridiculously stacked against the Spurs and FOR Miami.

Spurs - 6/9 games on the road, 2nd road trip in the month, b2b at the end of a 4/5.

Miami - 3 games in 12 days coming off 4 days of rest.

Even barring the increase of the risk of injury, the NBA put the Spurs at a huge disadvantage, and did so prior to a far more important game for the Spurs in Memphis (a Conference AND division Rival).

http://godismyjudgeok.com/DStats/APBRmetrics_Old/viewtopic.php@t=2661.html

Read those stats and tell me that if you're Pops and you want to WIN the most games possible and go deep into the playoffs that you wouldn't seriously be thinking about telling Stern and the schedule maker to go F themselves.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:13 PM
TD, Parker, Ginobli, Green sitting on the bench in street clothes = Not playing
TD, Parker, Ginobli, Green flying back to SA = Not playing

Stern would've most likely *****ed about it anyways. Stern is just being biased towards the teams that have the star power because he wouldn't have cared if Pop rested his guys against Orlando the night previous. And I'm a Heat fan. Why is this hard to pick up on?

Because if they are in street clothes you have to list why. No one sits 4 star players for no reason in November. It was a selfish move that hurt the NBA. Hence the fine and punishment.

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:14 PM
Do you think the league starts fining teams for tanking? Or is tanking good for the league and the fans because they aren't elite teams?
It'd be odd to start doing it now, since it's been such a common practice for years near the end of any given season. Stern is just overstepping his bounds here, and even guys in his own "camp" agree that it's over top. Hell, I haven't read one piece on this situation that contains any form of agreement with Stern.

Whether or not you believe someone is a superstar or not, or if a team is an elite team or not, is still a subjective matter. You mean to tell me that if the Wolves sat Kevin Love (elite player), or if the Nets sat D-Will (elite player) and Lopez, Stern would fine them too? I don't. He doesn't care enough. These rules he'd be making up on the fly would only apply to the Spurs, Heat, Lakers, Thunder, Knicks, Celtics, etc......

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:15 PM
Because if they are in street clothes you have to list why. No one sits 4 star players for no reason in November. It was a selfish move that hurt the NBA. Hence the fine and punishment.
There was a game last year when Popovich placed Duncan on the injury list. The reason? Here it is...

"Duncan - OLD", and guess what, nobody gave a damn.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:15 PM
If you want to see top notch competition, then the NBA shouldn't force a Coach to choose between the Health and competitiveness of his team against supporting the revenue stream.

The schedule was ridiculously stacked against the Spurs and FOR Miami.

Spurs - 6/9 games on the road, 2nd road trip in the month, b2b at the end of a 4/5.

Miami - 3 games in 12 days coming off 4 days of rest.

Even barring the increase of the risk of injury, the NBA put the Spurs at a huge disadvantage, and did so prior to a far more important game for the Spurs in Memphis (a Conference AND division Rival).

http://godismyjudgeok.com/DStats/APBRmetrics_Old/viewtopic.php@t=2661.html

Read those stats and tell me that if you're Pops and you want to WIN the most games possible and go deep into the playoffs that you wouldn't seriously be thinking about telling Stern and the schedule maker to go F themselves.

Pop could have played the star players sparingly during this game. Sending them home was stupid and costly.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:16 PM
There was a game last year when Popovich put the injury list that Duncan was sitting out. The reason? Here it is...

"Duncan - OLD"

Right, but he didn't list 4 names, just one.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:17 PM
It'd be odd to start doing it now, since it's been such a common practice for years near the end of any given season. Stern is just overstepping his bounds here, and even guys in his own "camp" agree that it's over top. Hell, I haven't read one piece on this situation that contains any form of agreement with Stern.

Whether or not you believe someone is a superstar or not, or if a team is an elite team or not, is still a subjective matter. You mean to tell me that if the Wolves sat Kevin Love (elite player), or if the Nets sat D-Will (elite player) and Lopez, Stern would fine them too? I don't. He doesn't care enough. These rules he'd be making up on the fly would only apply to the Spurs, Heat, Lakers, Thunder, Knicks, Celtics, etc......

Good points.

I mean only cause he said the Spurs did a disservice to the league by their actions. It's just really unfortunate cause I really feel if the Spurs had the 10:30 game in Golden State and Pop did this, there would be absolutely no issue.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Seriously makes absolutely NO difference except you can see them there. But they're still not playing. You're not going to be staring at Tony Parker on the bench while the game is going on. :facepalm:

Once pops sees that the game is within reach....Duncan, ginobli, and Parker are suddenly playing.....rejuvenated if you will by the desire to win.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Pop could have played the star players sparingly during this game. Sending them home was stupid and costly.

I think differently. Pop exposed the league by doing what he did in this particular fashion.

Stern will be scoped for the rest of his career thanks to this. Long time com in'.

Pop is a special coach, there will never be any coach like him. He is the last old skool coach left after Jerry Sloan left Utah.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Good points.

I mean only cause he said the Spurs did a disservice to the league by their actions. It's just really unfortunate cause I really feel if the Spurs had the 10:30 game in Golden State and Pop did this, there would be absolutely no issue.

And you would be wrong.

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Right, but he didn't list 4 names, just one.
I'm not understanding why the # of players taking the night off matters. They are older players, and Popovich is the position to do what's best for his guys. Stern's anger is being directed in the wrong place. Whoever the schedule makes are need to do a better job of scheduling.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:22 PM
I think differently. Pop exposed the league by doing what he did in this particular fashion.

Stern will be scoped for the rest of his career thanks to this. Long time comin'.

Stern is retiring regardless. This was a statement loud and clear...anyone else does this, here is what will happen. I'm ok with this, it's protecting the NBA game.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:22 PM
Right, but he didn't list 4 names, just one.

DNP- Coach's Decision

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=320221022

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:23 PM
And you would be wrong.
Dude, he pulled the same thing last year before a game @Portland while riding a double-digit winning streak and they ended up losing by 40 points. We never heard a peep out of Stern beforehand or afterward. He's incensed because it was a before a national televised game in Miami. He's been exposed.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Once pops sees that the game is within reach....Duncan, ginobli, and Parker are suddenly playing.....rejuvenated if you will by the desire to win.

Shows you know nothing about how the Spurs operate. When the starters got benched against Dallas last year, the Bench came back in the 4th from down 14 or 16 and sent the game into OT. Know who finished the game? The Bench. Not 1 starter saw the floor in OT. He goes with who's playing well. He would not have brought the starters in even if they sat on the bench. You need to do some more research on how the Spurs operate before you start making those assumptions.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Dude, he pulled the same thing last year before a game @Portland while riding a double-digit winning streak and they ended up losing by 40 points. We never heard a peep out of Stern beforehand or afterward. He's incensed because it was a before a national televised game in Miami. He's been exposed.

I just put that box score a right before your post too! The reason for TP and TD not playing was "COACH's DECISION"

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:25 PM
I'm not understanding why the # of players taking the night off matters. They are older players, and Popovich is the position to do what's best for his guys. Stern's anger is being directed in the wrong place. Whoever the schedule makes are need to do a better job of scheduling.

Amazing that pops didn't scream about this 6 months ago when said schedule was released.

Here's a question...if the spurs were 8-8 coming into this game, would pops have sit these four players? No.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:27 PM
Amazing that pops didn't scream about this 6 months ago when said schedule was released.

Here's a question...if the spurs were 8-8 coming into this game, would pops have sit these four players? No.

Right. They were 13-3 going in, so he has the ability to do that because they played so well early on. When you win games, you allow your team to rest, you reward them with rest and sacrifice 1 game, to go on another win streak before you rest them again.

And why scream about it? It won't change at all. So he'll handle it the way he wants to handle it. It's his team

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:28 PM
I just put that box score a right before your post too! The reason for TP and TD not playing was "COACH's DECISION"
Exactly. Meaning it's HIS decision. Stern is just trying to flex his muscles, and thinks people like ourselves are utter fools. I feel sorry for the fans, but that's the risk you take. Life isn't fair and there aren't guarantees.

NYMetros
12-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Popovich is a ****ing legend, he can do whatever he wants. It's hilarious how Stern fine'd them. He probably hates them so much.

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 12:29 PM
I cant really fault stern honestly...he made the right decision for the NBA as a whole. The spurs are not the nba. Stern is actually one of the better commisioners in all of sports. For example flopping and flagrant fouls were a problem last year and he addressed those two problems immediately in turn made the sport alot better in my opinion. You hardly see any flopping this year and thats great for the game. He makes decisions for the good of the sport and not to spite anyone in my opinion.

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:31 PM
Amazing that pops didn't scream about this 6 months ago when said schedule was released.

Here's a question...if the spurs were 8-8 coming into this game, would pops have sit these four players? No.
Why would he scream about it? As a coach, your job is to manage the schedule as best you can. Also, considering the Spurs have been red-hot to start the year I think he can afford to rest those guys. They've been a proven team for well over a decade, and Pop knows his guys better than anyone else including you and me. It's his team. Period.

That still doesn't mean that the games aren't scheduled poorly, and that's where Stern's anger should be directed to. Not the Spurs.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:31 PM
Shows you know nothing about how the Spurs operate. When the starters got benched against Dallas last year, the Bench came back in the 4th from down 14 or 16 and sent the game into OT. Know who finished the game? The Bench. Not 1 starter saw the floor in OT. He goes with who's playing well. He would not have brought the starters in even if they sat on the bench. You need to do some more research on how the Spurs operate before you start making those assumptions.

Sorry my backup research team was currently focused on the tendencies of Alaskan salmon fishing and its correlation to the local economy and TV rights. I will dispatch a team immediately to San Antonio, to go through every box score Gregg Popovich has been involved with. This would have happened sooner but my number one team was resting after having worked three out of four days.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:33 PM
Why would he scream about it? As a coach, your job is to manage the schedule as best you can. Also, considering the Spurs have been red-hot to start the year I think he can afford to rest those guys. They've been a proven team for well over a decade, and Pop knows his guys better than anyone else including you and me. It's his team. Period.

That still doesn't mean that the games aren't scheduled poorly, and that's where Stern's anger should be directed to. Not the Spurs.

The commissioners anger is directed at a coach who blatantly hurt the integrity of the league.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Popovich is a ****ing legend, he can do whatever he wants. It's hilarious how Stern fine'd them. He probably hates them so much.

So now pops is bigger than the game?

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Exactly. Meaning it's HIS decision. Stern is just trying to flex his muscles, and thinks people like ourselves are utter fools. I feel sorry for the fans, but that's the risk you take. Life isn't fair and there aren't guarantees.

Exactly, I feel sorry for the fans too. I keep saying I wanted to see both teams go at it too. Of course I want to see Duncan-Bosh, and TP-Wade Manu-Lebron. I want to see how they stacked up against the defending champs and was definitely looking forward to the game.

But I did realize the circumstances and understood there was a possibility it didn't happen. And I certainly understand it's the coach's decision (at least I thought it was) to do what's best for his team.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Sorry my backup research team was currently focused on the tendencies of Alaskan salmon fishing and its correlation to the local economy and TV rights. I will dispatch a team immediately to San Antonio, to go through every box score Gregg Popovich has been involved with. This would have happened sooner but my number one team was resting after having worked three out of four days.

You're the one who made an assumption that was totally false. I'm just trying to point out you may not know as much about the Spurs as you seem to think. But if you did go through every box score you'd see plenty DNP-Coach's Decisions.

NYMetros
12-01-2012, 12:36 PM
So now pops is bigger than the game?

He shouldn't be fined for making a decision that he thought benefited his basketball team. That's ridiculous

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Right. They were 13-3 going in, so he has the ability to do that because they played so well early on. When you win games, you allow your team to rest, you reward them with rest and sacrifice one game, to go on another win streak before you rest them again.

And why scream about it? It won't change at all. So he'll handle it the way he wants to handle it. It's his team

Sacrifice one game? You honestly see no issue with this statement do you?

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:37 PM
Sacrifice one game? You honestly see no issue with this statement do you?
Considering how meaningless it is in the long run, no I don't see any issue at all. Stern clearly didn't see an issue with it when Pop did it the previous 5+ times. :shrug:

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:38 PM
He shouldn't be fined for making a decision that he thought benefited his basketball team. That's ridiculous

I got 250 thousand reasons that says it's not ridiculous and I dare you to do it again.

NYMetros
12-01-2012, 12:39 PM
I got 250 thousand reasons that says it's not ridiculous and I dare you to do it again.

You realize Stern just hates the Spurs, right?

Here, read this: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--david-stern-stumbles-again-in-his-failed-culture-war-against-the-spurs-194828970.html;_ylt=AvzxapjBIPoB4ft2BFHiQqK8vLYF;_ ylu=X3oDMTN1NWNkbWgxBG1pdANGRUFUVVJFRCBNZWdhdHJvbi BOQkEEcGtnAzFlZjUwY2FjLTU1OTktM2ZmYS1iYzdhLWIxZTRl MzYyZjgzNgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyA2EzYTBiMj IzLTNiNTYtMTFlMi1iYjdmLTEzYzg4YjQyMzgzNw--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoNjVvZWVyBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuYmEEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

My thoughts on what the Spurs did can also be summed up by what Woj wrote in that article

Against LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, against Chris Bosh and Ray Allen, what the Spurs did in a 105-100 loss wasn't an embarrassment to the NBA, but a celebration of it. This is how a franchise ought to be run, how winning is of foremost importance. Popovich empowered his bench to hang with the defending champion Heat, and gave his group even greater confidence and belief for when they're called upon again. What happened was one of the most compelling Spurs' regular-season games, and easily the most mesmerizing game of this season.

This was a testament to the Spurs' great scouting and player development, the great coaching and discipline. This was the ultimate testament to the Spurs' way, and it didn't repulse the paying public – it inspired them.

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 12:39 PM
Pop can coach and manage his team fine, but if what he does hurts the nba then its a problem. This is about the nba's success now and in the future.

Captain Moroni
12-01-2012, 12:39 PM
Considering how meaningless it is in the long run, no I don't see any issue at all. :

Throwing games is ok. Argument over.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:39 PM
Sacrifice one game? You honestly see no issue with this statement do you?

Nope. But my guess is you've seen tanking going on all these years but never screamed anything about it. The hypocrisy is absolutely astounding. People are ok with tanking, and giving games away at the end of the season to get a better playoff matchup, and giving games away at the end of the season, just not early on.

kdspurman
12-01-2012, 12:41 PM
You realize Stern just hates the Spurs, right?

Here, read this: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--david-stern-stumbles-again-in-his-failed-culture-war-against-the-spurs-194828970.html;_ylt=AvzxapjBIPoB4ft2BFHiQqK8vLYF;_ ylu=X3oDMTN1NWNkbWgxBG1pdANGRUFUVVJFRCBNZWdhdHJvbi BOQkEEcGtnAzFlZjUwY2FjLTU1OTktM2ZmYS1iYzdhLWIxZTRl MzYyZjgzNgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyA2EzYTBiMj IzLTNiNTYtMTFlMi1iYjdmLTEzYzg4YjQyMzgzNw--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoNjVvZWVyBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuYmEEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

I'm glad so many people are reading this. It opened my eyes so much, Woj dropped a ton of knowledge

SteBO
12-01-2012, 12:41 PM
Throwing games is ok. Argument over.
What, you missed the rest of my post too? Stern hates the Spurs, and he's showing it again here. So yes, argument over. The hypocrisy is sickening.

NYMetros
12-01-2012, 12:42 PM
Sacrifice one game? You honestly see no issue with this statement do you?

How the hell did they sacrifice the game? They were leading into the final minute lol. :confused:

I really disagree with you that they threw the game.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 12:53 PM
You realize Stern just hates the Spurs, right?

Here, read this: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--david-stern-stumbles-again-in-his-failed-culture-war-against-the-spurs-194828970.html;_ylt=AvzxapjBIPoB4ft2BFHiQqK8vLYF;_ ylu=X3oDMTN1NWNkbWgxBG1pdANGRUFUVVJFRCBNZWdhdHJvbi BOQkEEcGtnAzFlZjUwY2FjLTU1OTktM2ZmYS1iYzdhLWIxZTRl MzYyZjgzNgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyA2EzYTBiMj IzLTNiNTYtMTFlMi1iYjdmLTEzYzg4YjQyMzgzNw--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoNjVvZWVyBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuYmEEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

My thoughts on what the Spurs did can also be summed up by what Woj wrote in that article


This. THIS. THIS. THIS.

I watch the NBA because I love basketball, not because I like stars.

No NBA star is bigger than the game

torocan
12-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Pop could have played the star players sparingly during this game. Sending them home was stupid and costly.

That isn't how Pops operates.

Pops ALWAYS puts the best team on the floor that MAKES SENSE for his team to win the MOST possible games.

Once he decided to NOT play TP, Duncan and Ginobli, he's STILL going to try to win with whoever he puts on the Roster. Putting TP/Duncan and Ginobli on the bench JUST to make it look good goes against the principles of Pops, which is to win as MANY games as needed in order to give them the best possible chance of Winning in the playoffs.

3 guys on the bench that you KNOW you aren't willing to play more than token minutes is 3 spots that can be taken up by other players that CAN be played for significant minutes and improve your chances of winning.

Pops is thinking strategically.

For Pops, his players are a limited resource. They can only be played so many days and so many minutes without putting them at risk of Injury or reducing their performance to the point that it threatens his team's chances of putting up enough wins.

When you have a limited resource, you have to make Choices about how to deploy those resources, just as armies have to make choices about when and where to deploy their highest impact units with a finite military force.

In military parlance, amateurs think about battles, veterans think Logistics.

Pops isn't thinking about how can he win ONE game, he's thinking about how can he win 50-60 games. It just happens that Miami's game was in the worst possible place in terms of achieving that objective.

So, the Schedule makers put Pops in the position that he had to make a choice... More wins, or keep Stern and the sponsors happy. He chose Wins. That anyone would blast him for that is the height of hypocrisy when so many fans complain about their teams and players underperforming year in and year out.

The fact is, if Every coach worked like Pops, we'd have a much more competitive league playing much better basketball night in and night out.

Pops may have made the choice, but the NBA and schedule forced him into it.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Throwing games is ok. Argument over.

No, it's not.

Point is Pop didn't throw the game at all. It was a close hard fought 48 minutes of basketball. And a remarkable display of amazing NBA coaching.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 12:57 PM
The fact is, if Every coach worked like Pops, we'd have a much more competitive league playing much better basketball night in and night out.

.


Can I use this quote for my signature?

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 01:00 PM
Its pretty competative and exciting as it is.

torocan
12-01-2012, 01:08 PM
Can I use this quote for my signature?

Knock yourself out. It's not like I copyrighted it. :D

Sly Guy
12-01-2012, 01:10 PM
What, you missed the rest of my post too? Stern hates the Spurs, and he's showing it again here. So yes, argument over. The hypocrisy is sickening.

I wouldn't say the problem is limited to just the spurs. The reports of draft-related shadiness [from the yahoo article] is equally troubling, and more far reaching than a vendetta against the spurs.

If Stern cannot market a sport to the masses, then he should not be allowed to turn that sport into sports entertainment.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 01:15 PM
The Spurs do everything right. For some reason that's really loathsome. :roll eyes:

torocan
12-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Its pretty competative and exciting as it is.

Only if you ignore the chronically bad defenses, mailing in of games, decline of the post-up game, and inefficient isolation offenses that permeates so many teams in the league.

I don't think it's wrong to demand higher quality and fundamental basketball from more teams in the NBA given their coaches and player talent.

JayW_1023
12-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Only if you ignore the chronically bad defenses, mailing in of games, decline of the post-up game, and inefficient isolation offenses that permeates so many teams in the league.

I don't think it's wrong to demand higher quality and fundamental basketball from more teams in the NBA given their coaches and player talent.

Funny thing is, team basketball is actually very much on a high now, with teams like the Grizzlies, Knicks and Clippers sharing the rock with great success.

Guys who were known to shoot too much (i.e. Brandon Jennings) are now changing their philosophy.

Give me games with balanced scoring anyday over one guy hoisting up 25+ shots.

da ThRONe
12-01-2012, 06:33 PM
I agree with the OP. The season is too long and Pop did the right thing. If you're going to rest your vets in one of two games it better to play them against the weaker team.

Havoc Wreaker
12-01-2012, 06:41 PM
As a complete outsider here's what I think.

Pop did it to rest his players but he also did as a **** you to the NBA.

I don't think they deserved to be fined, but he should've told the NBA, since if I am not mistaken, they charge more if the game is televised.

tnewkirk
12-01-2012, 06:52 PM
82 games is too long, 60 is perfect.

Sly Guy
12-01-2012, 07:22 PM
82 games is too long, 60 is perfect.

I'd rather they keep 82 games, but extend the season to start at the beginning of October. They way, you get less back to backs and more rest time over the course of an entire season. Good for the players, good for the economics, good for the league.

topdog
12-01-2012, 07:36 PM
Let's see here, the NBA gives the Spurs a schedule of 6 road games in 9 days on the east coast.

I'm tired of everyone making a thread to talk about the same thing so I'm only going to read and respond to this first part.

The NBA is the business. As a business, there are various expenses to deal with and the idea is to maximize profit in part by minimizing expenses. Travel expenses are one of the primary factors the league scheduler takes into account. Ideally, he probably would like to give the Spurs a bit more time off on the swing, but if I'm the scheduler and I can manage to get a West team done with 6 teams that would individually be longer (and more expensive) flights then I'm going to do it. Somewhere else in the schedule it will be made up for with more days off.

Consider, the Spurs were in Indiana which is relatively close (NBA speaking) to Toronto. Now, Washington is much closer to Toronto at this point than returning to San Antonio and so is Orlando. If you're already in the state to play Orlando, it's a good idea to drive on over and play Miami. The dates of all these games are subject to arena and team availability, but playing them all in a row makes business sense while not treating the Spurs any differently than any other team.

topdog
12-01-2012, 07:37 PM
82 games is too long, 60 is perfect.

Revenues then go down and see if you can get players to take pay "cuts" that reflect reduced revenues and fewer games. Not happening. That would be the solution to all this schedule complaining though... or at least a bit of it.

captmike
12-01-2012, 07:43 PM
Anybody who looks at that 1 game and has a problem with the Spurs is a Moron. The Spurs should do what they want for the following reasons.

4th game in 5 night with a team that has been injury prone. Not playing stars on the Spurs at times like this is not new.
Bigger than that they have already had a 6 and 10 day road trips in November.
Nobody has had more away games this year.
They are 29 and 4 in their last 33 road games so maybe they have a plan.
Look how teams do on the road early in the season. Lakers 1 and 4 with the longest trip 3 games.
The Spurs go home for 3 and are on the road again for 6 of the next 7
Pops said screw you Stern you make the schedule and I'll adjust.

Stern is an IDIOT 250K and he is now dictating lineups. That was for resting players so what if they played 5 minutes.

Spurs want to win the last game of the season and you have to get there to do that.