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archdevil84
11-30-2012, 11:04 AM
so now that andrew bynum is probably not gonna make his return before the all star game, who is gonne be the east all star starting C?

cubbiefan_est88
11-30-2012, 11:05 AM
Starter easily joakim noah

Minimal
11-30-2012, 11:07 AM
Starter easily joakim noah
Read my lips... Anderson V.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 11:10 AM
Starter easily joakim noah

Only Bulls homers and Heat/Bosh haters would take Noah over Bosh. Bosh will be the starter with Melo and Bron at the forwards. The reserves will be between Lopez, Noah, Chandler, KG, Horford and Varejao. Most likely it will be Lopez though.

Minimal
11-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Only Bulls homers and Heat/Bosh haters would take Noah over Bosh. Bosh will be the starter with Melo and Bron at the forwards. The reserves will be between Lopez, Noah, Chandler, KG, Horford and Varejao. Most likely it will be Lopez though.
Also true. Bosh definetely deserves to be a starter this year.

Gators123
11-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Hopefully Monroe can be a reserve.

JasonJohnHorn
11-30-2012, 11:23 AM
I don't think there is a C in the east more deserving of a spot in the starting line up more than Anderson-V. He's been killing the boards, playing great D, scoring efficiently and even passing the ball.

After Anderson-V I have to go with Greg Monroe, even though he's playing on a bad team, he's playing great ball.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-30-2012, 11:24 AM
Like a bosh!

LongIslandIcedZ
11-30-2012, 11:24 AM
Didnt they switch to a 2 guard/3 forward format? Or am I making that up?

Anyway, probably Bosh, but it could easily be Monroe or Anderson V

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-30-2012, 11:25 AM
Yeah they did.

NBA-GMaster
11-30-2012, 12:35 PM
Bosh spice!! LeBron, Wade and Bosh are surely the fan favorite for east starters..

HaruSoul
11-30-2012, 12:49 PM
Didnt they switch to a 2 guard/3 forward format? Or am I making that up?

Anyway, probably Bosh, but it could easily be Monroe or Anderson V

Yea, there are no more center spots.

phlp_bj
11-30-2012, 12:51 PM
Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo
Dwyane Wade
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Chris Bosh

king4day
11-30-2012, 12:52 PM
I'd go with Bosh. Haven't followed the others much but Chandler, Monroe, and Varejao could be options too.

Lakers + Giants
11-30-2012, 12:58 PM
Varejao or Lopez

mamba24
11-30-2012, 01:01 PM
Only Bulls homers and Heat/Bosh haters would take Noah over Bosh. Bosh will be the starter with Melo and Bron at the forwards. The reserves will be between Lopez, Noah, Chandler, KG, Horford and Varejao. Most likely it will be Lopez though.

Bosh should be the starter for sure... i think varejao deserves it more than lopez at this point tho. AV is killing it right now

ee
11-30-2012, 01:15 PM
coaches wouldn't vote for a guy killing it on a one of the worst team in the league.....bosh takes the starting spot coz of votes of course, but he does deserve it coz they're the best team......then between lopez and chandler for the reserve spot.....

29$JerZ
11-30-2012, 01:22 PM
Didn't they take off the C spot and now its just Forwards?

Either way it should go

Andy V
Chris Bosh
Brook Lopez

in that oder imo

Mataro41
11-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Tyson Chandler maybe?

Dmagic87
11-30-2012, 01:46 PM
It should be

PG Kyrie or Jrue Holliday (if Kyrie is injured)
SG Lebron
SF Melo
PF Bosh
C Lopez

ee
11-30-2012, 01:48 PM
It should be

PG Kyrie or Jrue Holliday (if Kyrie is injured)
SG Lebron
SF Melo
PF Bosh
C Lopez

:confused:

Rivera
11-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Three fowards

Lebron and melo are locks

Id think the last forward spot would go to bosh

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 01:51 PM
It should be

PG Kyrie or Jrue Holliday (if Kyrie is injured)
SG Lebron
SF Melo
PF Bosh
C Lopez

Makes absolutely no sense. LeBron hasn't logged a single minute at the SG this season why place him there when there are other Guards more deserving of being voted starters at that position.

chitown4eva88
11-30-2012, 01:53 PM
Noah all day!!!

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 01:54 PM
Three fowards

Lebron and melo are locks

Id think the last forward spot would go to bosh

Its not three forwards people need to stop saying that. It's 3 front court players.

Rivera
11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
Its not three forwards people need to stop saying that. It's 3 front court players.

Forwards nd Cs = front court

Guards = back court

Thats basketball 101

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Forwards = front court

Guards = back court

Thats basketball 101

Well them I'm guessing Centres are mid court then :rolleyes:

Two Cs can be theoretically voted on an All Star team as starters so it defeats what you believe to be basketball 101.

GiantsSwaGG
11-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Bosh spice followed by either Anderson V or Chandler

Gibby
11-30-2012, 01:58 PM
There is no more centres so i don't know how this turns. Bron and Melo will get voted in for sure and I agree with that. I think one of Bosh, Lopez, Verejao should get the other spot.

I know the cavs dont have a good record but his numbers are really good that you have to over look his team success. It sort of like when Kevin Love made it one year when his team sucked. I know Verejao's numbers arent good as Kevin Love but its comparable considering Verejao plays in the east.

sixer04fan
11-30-2012, 01:58 PM
Varejao deserves it so far

Rivera
11-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Well them I'm guessing Centres are mid court then :rolleyes:

Two Cs can be theoretically voted on an All Star team as starters so it defeats what you believe to be basketball 101.

You missed my edit and i think people know cs are part of the front court and apart of the ballot we know centers are eligible its just you wanting to be uber specific which is fine but people know centers are eligble

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 02:05 PM
You missed my edit and i think people know cs are part of the front court and apart of the ballot we know centers are eligible its just you wanting to be uber specific which is fine but people know centers are eligble

It has nothing to do with being uber specific the NBA was ensuring that they were clear that it was front court players not just Fs. What you and others were saying abut 3 Fs makes one believe that Cs wont be on the ballot. I was correcting your mistake.


Didnt they switch to a 2 guard/3 forward format? Or am I making that up?

Anyway, probably Bosh, but it could easily be Monroe or Anderson V


Yea, there are no more center spots.

^ as for the 2nd part of your post apparently not everyone has a complete grasp of it.

Rockice_8
11-30-2012, 02:12 PM
Monroe and AV both play on **** teams. That usually hurts a players chances. Bosh, Lopez, and Chandler are the safe bets.

YoungOne
11-30-2012, 02:22 PM
monroe really?? he puts up average stats on a crappy team.. thats not gonna make it

smith&wesson
11-30-2012, 02:30 PM
bosh
varagao
hibbert
lopez

Dade County
11-30-2012, 02:33 PM
Bosh or Lopez... those two should be the only options to start.

DoMeFavors
11-30-2012, 02:37 PM
Brook Lopez should start the all star game

Gators123
11-30-2012, 02:46 PM
monroe really?? he puts up average stats on a crappy team.. thats not gonna make it

lol @ Average stats.

16.5 PPG
9.4 RPG
3.6 APG

With a 20 PER.

PER 36 he puts up about about 18, 10, and 4.

DoMeFavors
11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
lol @ Average stats.

16.5 PPG
9.4 RPG
3.6 APG

With a 20 PER.

PER 36 he puts up about about 18, 10, and 4.

Monta Ellis also had impressive stats doesnt mean he should have been an all star, what Monroe does doesnt impact the game at all. Plus it would look weird seeing Monroe as an all star.

Faneik
11-30-2012, 02:52 PM
Bosh or Lopez... those two should be the only options to start.

why? because they play in sexy teams?

go check Varejao productivity so far. 15 pts, 15 rebs per game.

i'll take that over bosh's 20/8 and Brook's 19/7

Gators123
11-30-2012, 02:56 PM
Monta Ellis also had impressive stats doesnt mean he should have been an all star, what Monroe does doesnt impact the game at all. Plus it would look weird seeing Monroe as an all star.

Monroe is always efficient though. Monta Ellis isn't. And saying he doesn't impact the game is ridiculous.

Minimal
11-30-2012, 02:58 PM
IMO 6 contenders for last C spot and their comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=boshch01&y1=2013&p2=lopezbr01&y2=2013&p3=varejan01&y3=2013&p4=chandty01&y4=2013&p5=horfoal01&y5=2013&p6=monrogr01&y6=2013


PER/36 Leaders:

1. Chris Bosh 24.5
2. Brook Lopez 24.0
3. Anderson V 23.9
4. Tyson Chandler 22.3
5. Greg Monroe 19.9
6. Al Horford 19.0

RonE Coleman
11-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Starting five in the East should be...

Rondo
Kyrie or Holiday
Melo
Lebron
Andy V or Bosh

LongIslandIcedZ
11-30-2012, 03:11 PM
Monroe is always efficient though. Monta Ellis isn't. And saying he doesn't impact the game is ridiculous.

Yea but it would look weird.

Thats important.

Hellcrooner
11-30-2012, 03:16 PM
deserve? varejao or Lopez.

But thanks to the fan contest and eliminating the C list bosh will start.

HowBoutDemBulls
11-30-2012, 03:18 PM
Noah is getting disrespected. Him and Andy V. have performed the best out of East Centers

Minimal
11-30-2012, 03:28 PM
Noah is getting disrespected. Him and Andy V. have performed the best out of East Centers
How is he disrespected? He puts up 12 pts and 9 rebounds per 36 minutes, while shooting only 48% for a center...

DoMeFavors
11-30-2012, 03:32 PM
How is he disrespected? He puts up 12 pts and 9 rebounds per 36 minutes, while shooting only 48% for a center...

Lopez in 30 min is avg 19 and 7 on 55% ... and he is on a much better team

Borough
11-30-2012, 03:34 PM
Yea, there are no more center spots.

poor kid in your sig

alexander_37
11-30-2012, 03:59 PM
No center spot. So Bosh only really stands a chance, rest don't score enough.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 04:02 PM
No center spot. So Bosh only really stands a chance, rest don't score enough.

There aren't any "forward" spots either.

abe_froman
11-30-2012, 04:05 PM
cant see how this isnt bosh's

tapajafri
11-30-2012, 04:13 PM
it better not be freaking roy hibbert again. overrated

KnickaBocka.44
11-30-2012, 04:30 PM
Andy V deserves to start but I doubt he gets enough votes. Bosh will take one spot and who cares who gets the other

ugafan
11-30-2012, 04:32 PM
Al Horford.

Minimal
11-30-2012, 04:34 PM
I think Bosh, Lopez and Andy V all deserve a spot.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo
Dwyane Wade
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Chris Bosh

This.

krisxsong
11-30-2012, 04:47 PM
why? because they play in sexy teams?

go check Varejao productivity so far. 15 pts, 15 rebs per game.

i'll take that over bosh's 20/8 and Brook's 19/7

There is something to be said of being the focal point of the 2nd seed team in the East. There's also something to be said of the being the only low post presence on the best team in the NBA.

There's not much to be said of a guy who's putting up 14.5 and 15 on one of the worst teams in the league. Why are you using per game stats? It's not fair to compare them per game if Varejao gets 36 mpg and Lopez gets 29.

Brook Lopez is putting up 22.4-8.2-3.0 per 36. I'll take that over Varejao when looking at the context of the two. Can Varejao carry the offensive load of a top 2 seeded team shooting 54%? I think not.

Varejao is not in Bosh's or Lopez's class.

tnewkirk
11-30-2012, 04:51 PM
i said lopez would be an all star this year, i dont know about starter though.

*Silver&Black*
11-30-2012, 05:14 PM
How about the guy that was the all-star back-up to Howard 2 years straight and would have last year as well if he didn't get hurt. He was also recently named Eastern Conference player of the week. Horford.

krisxsong
11-30-2012, 05:16 PM
How about the guy that was the all-star back-up to Howard 2 years straight and would have last year as well if he didn't get hurt. He was also recently named Eastern Conference player of the week. Horford.

Not over Bosh and Lopez.

eugene
11-30-2012, 05:31 PM
lopez..

Faneik
11-30-2012, 06:20 PM
There is something to be said of being the focal point of the 2nd seed team in the East. There's also something to be said of the being the only low post presence on the best team in the NBA.

There's not much to be said of a guy who's putting up 14.5 and 15 on one of the worst teams in the league. Why are you using per game stats? It's not fair to compare them per game if Varejao gets 36 mpg and Lopez gets 29.

Brook Lopez is putting up 22.4-8.2-3.0 per 36. I'll take that over Varejao when looking at the context of the two. Can Varejao carry the offensive load of a top 2 seeded team shooting 54%? I think not.

Varejao is not in Bosh's or Lopez's class.

i never said he was. What I meant was, SO FAR, Varejao is putting insane productivity. Better than Bosh's and Brook's. Varejao is the better defender of the 3, that should count for something.

"There's not much to be said of a guy who's putting up 14.5 and 15 on one of the worst teams in the league" --> weak argument. this is not the mvp race.

bad team - opponent defense tries to neutralize the best player
stacked team - opponent defense has many threats to neutralize. A 3rd option like Bosh can take advantage of that.

Again, Bosh and Brook are more skilled, but Varejao's hustle, energy, dirty work make him a special player with a case for being an All-Star if he can maintain this productivity.

Arch Stanton
11-30-2012, 11:12 PM
AV with 20 pts and 18 rebounds tonight.

ManRam
11-30-2012, 11:19 PM
Im sure it's been said a million times, but there's no C on the ballot.

If there were, ANDY VAREJAO!

rocket
11-30-2012, 11:20 PM
Greg Monroe. The most underrated player in the NBA.

justinnum1
11-30-2012, 11:24 PM
bosh

ManRam
11-30-2012, 11:28 PM
Greg Monroe. The most underrated player in the NBA.

Hibbert making the ASG last year over him was a joke.

--23--
11-30-2012, 11:44 PM
They removed the Center position(which is dumb as hell) so it may be Bosh.

ManRam
11-30-2012, 11:46 PM
They removed the Center position(which is dumb as hell) so it may be Bosh.

Well...I mean, Bosh is starting at center for the Heat this year....

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 01:48 AM
i never said he was. What I meant was, SO FAR, Varejao is putting insane productivity. Better than Bosh's and Brook's. Varejao is the better defender of the 3, that should count for something.

"There's not much to be said of a guy who's putting up 14.5 and 15 on one of the worst teams in the league" --> weak argument. this is not the mvp race.

bad team - opponent defense tries to neutralize the best player
stacked team - opponent defense has many threats to neutralize. A 3rd option like Bosh can take advantage of that.

Again, Bosh and Brook are more skilled, but Varejao's hustle, energy, dirty work make him a special player with a case for being an All-Star if he can maintain this productivity.

Exactly, defenses try to neutralize Kyrie Irving. They don't care about Varejao that's why teams never double him or worry that he's going to beat them. I'll give him 15 every game, that's not going to beat my team.

Bosh put up far better numbers on a bad team, and Brook has shown he can put up 20-8 on a bad team.

It's not an MVP race I know, so you tell me what's more important, context or just raw stats?

Robbw241
12-01-2012, 01:52 AM
Brock Lupus.


LMAO it cracks me up whenever I see people call him that, idk why.

Arch Stanton
12-01-2012, 02:01 AM
Exactly, defenses try to neutralize Kyrie Irving. They don't care about Varejao that's why teams never double him or worry that he's going to beat them. I'll give him 15 every game, that's not going to beat my team.

Bosh put up far better numbers on a bad team, and Brook has shown he can put up 20-8 on a bad team.

It's not an MVP race I know, so you tell me what's more important, context or just raw stats?

You do realize that Kyrie has been out and AV is still producing at the same rate. And AV is playing on a bad team (even with Kyrie) so that pretty much contradicts your point. The only thing you may want to question is sustainability and health. Health being an issue over the past few years. Although his injuries aren't necessarily chronic. Both other players you mentioned are very talented though so nothing against them.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 02:06 AM
They removed the Center position(which is dumb as hell) so it may be Bosh.

How is it dumb?

NEWSFLASH they removed the Forward position too.

The 3 front court players receiving the most votes will be starting the ASG. In essence that means that if this rule was in place when Shaq and Yao were both in the WC Shaq would be starting alongside Yao.

People saying they removed the C spot are forgetting (or probably just don't understand) the also move the forward positions as well.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 02:11 AM
You do realize that Kyrie has been out and AV is still producing at the same rate. And AV is playing on a bad team (even with Kyrie) so that pretty much contradicts your point. The only thing you may want to question is sustainability and health. Health being an issue over the past few years. Although his injuries aren't necessarily chronic. Both other players you mentioned are very talented though so nothing against them.

I bet he probably also thinks that Blake Griffin was nothing before CP3 came along :laugh2:

His context argument is also very funny. This is the NBA this isn't Varejao playing a pickup game somewhere in south America. A couple nights ago he by himself grabbed more rebounds on both ends of the floor that Zach Randolph, Rudy Gay AND Marc Gasol. You think they were trying like hell to keep him off the glass. They were, they just couldn't stop it. If you can live with Andy V killing it on the glass and giving you 15 a game and thinking that won't beat you if you're a basketball coach of any sort your stay in the NBA would be a short one.

marsza
12-01-2012, 02:12 AM
starter: Bosh
bench: Lopez, Varejao

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 02:20 AM
You do realize that Kyrie has been out and AV is still producing at the same rate. And AV is playing on a bad team (even with Kyrie) so that pretty much contradicts your point. The only thing you may want to question is sustainability and health. Health being an issue over the past few years. Although his injuries aren't necessarily chronic. Both other players you mentioned are very talented though so nothing against them.

What? How exactly does that contradict my point? He has played well in the absence of Irving, but that's 4 games. If you want to go with a sample size that small, were you calling Jeremy Lin the best PG at one point last year?

I never pointed to his injuries, I dont know why you brought that up.

Bosh and Lopez play a critical role on two of the better teams. Varejao scores 15 and grabs 15 on a bad team. Plus let's compare their per 36.

Varejao. 14.6-15.0-0.4-52.5%
Bosh. 21.3-8.8-1.4-56%
Lopez. 22.4-8.2-3.0-53.4%

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which of the 3 is clearly the worst.

seikou8
12-01-2012, 02:22 AM
man brook is playing well this season but still not better than chandler:p

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 02:23 AM
I bet he probably also thinks that Blake Griffin was nothing before CP3 came along :laugh2:

His context argument is also very funny. This is the NBA this isn't Varejao playing a pickup game somewhere in south America. A couple nights ago he by himself grabbed more rebounds on both ends of the floor that Zach Randolph, Rudy Gay AND Marc Gasol. You think they were trying like hell to keep him off the glass. They were, they just couldn't stop it. If you can live with Andy V killing it on the glass and giving you 15 a game and thinking that won't beat you if you're a basketball coach of any sort your stay in the NBA would be a short one.

I never said he was a poor rebounder, I don't why you brought that up.

Hey, he's putting 15 and 15 right now right? And what's Cleveland's record? Oh yeah that's right 4-12 so my point is proven that you don't have to stop him from his season average to beat them.

How can you sit there and say my theory is false when it's been proven over a 16 game span? Yes that's a small sample size but anybody who thinks Cleveland is going to be any better than one of the worst 5 teams in the East is kidding themselves.

If I'm a coach and I'm facing the Cavs I'm not worried about Varejao. Stop Kyrie Irving and that is all. If Varejao gets 15 and 15 that won't kill you, and it hasn't killed many teams this season has it?

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 02:25 AM
man brook is playing well this season but still not better than chandler:p

Is this a sarcastic post?

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 02:34 AM
I never said he was a poor rebounder, I don't why you brought that up.

Hey, he's putting 15 and 15 right now right? And what's Cleveland's record? Oh yeah that's right 4-12 so my point is proven that you don't have to stop him from his season average to beat them.

How can you sit there and say my theory is false when it's been proven over a 16 game span? Yes that's a small sample size but anybody who thinks Cleveland is going to be any better than one of the worst 5 teams in the East is kidding themselves.

If I'm a coach and I'm facing the Cavs I'm not worried about Varejao. Stop Kyrie Irving and that is all. If Varejao gets 15 and 15 that won't kill you, and it hasn't killed many teams this season has it?

I still don't think you've realized that Kyrie Irving has missed 6 games and played 2 of them nursing a finger injury. Quoting the Cavs record without Kyrie goes completely against your point. During the time that Kyrie has been out the Cavs have lost one game by more than 5 points. Varejao played exceptional in all those games. Kyrie could have made up for that 5 points and give your team the victory.

I'll tell you this. Place Brook on the Cavs and his 20-8 isn't going to make you any better (in fact it will make you worse) than Varejao's 15 and 15 with better play on the defensive end despite not being a better shotblocker. The biggest reason Brook will get taken ahead of Andy V is because of his team record.

I find it ironic that you'd say Varejao's 15 and 15 won't beat you when Brook was putting up 18 and 8 for a 12 win team :laugh2: Where is the logic in that?

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 02:41 AM
What? How exactly does that contradict my point? He has played well in the absence of Irving, but that's 6 games. If you want to go with a sample size that small, were you calling Jeremy Lin the best PG at one point last year?

I never pointed to his injuries, I dont know why you brought that up.

Bosh and Lopez play a critical role on two of the better teams. Varejao scores 15 and grabs 15 on a bad team. Plus let's compare their per 36.

Varejao. 14.6-15.0-0.4-52.5%
Bosh. 21.3-8.8-1.4-56%
Lopez. 22.4-8.2-3.0-53.4%

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which of the 3 is clearly the worst.

Fixed.

You're comparing per36 with no context. Lopez plays with one of the best playmakers in the game, Joe Johnson, Hump etc despite being a bigger focal point of his teams offense defenses are less likely to double down on him with the fear that his supporting cast will hurt then (we saw it tonight with Wallace getting good open looks). Andy V gets double teamed on the glass/box out and still finds a way to outrebound the opposing team's front court. That's crazy. Obviously Varejao's shooting %s are going to take a hit given that he doesn't have the playmakers that Bosh and Lopez has setting him up.

Super.
12-01-2012, 02:45 AM
Bosh, then Varejao

Arch Stanton
12-01-2012, 02:45 AM
What? How exactly does that contradict my point? He has played well in the absence of Irving, but that's 4 games. If you want to go with a sample size that small, were you calling Jeremy Lin the best PG at one point last year?

I never pointed to his injuries, I dont know why you brought that up.

Bosh and Lopez play a critical role on two of the better teams. Varejao scores 15 and grabs 15 on a bad team. Plus let's compare their per 36.

Varejao. 14.6-15.0-0.4-52.5%
Bosh. 21.3-8.8-1.4-56%
Lopez. 22.4-8.2-3.0-53.4%

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which of the 3 is clearly the worst.

I'm sure players and teams just don't care if AV grabs 18 or 20 boards with 20 points. They will just let him grab them to pad his stats.
My point about AV playing on a bad team (even with Irving) is that good teams should then know who is getting the most production and try to (using your term) "neutralize" them. But they're not. Bosh plays on the best team in the NBA so you can't focus on Bosh because then you have to worry about James, or Wade, or Ray... Brook Lopez plays with Brooklyn (also a better more seasoned team than the Cavs) so you can't just focus on him. AV plays with youth and development.
As I stayed, nothing against Bosh or Lopez they're both wonderful players and if you want to compare all PERs they're all very similar (yes AV is the lowest of the 3).
Also, I never said you brought up injuries nor did I boost Lin. My point is can AV sustain his rampage and can he stay healthy?
I think we might need a "rocket" scientist because apparently I said Lin was the best PG and I want to know how I came to that conclusion.

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 02:52 AM
Fixed.

You're comparing per36 with no context. Lopez plays with one of the best playmakers in the game, Joe Johnson, Hump etc despite being a bigger focal point of his teams offense defenses are less likely to double down on him with the fear that his supporting cast will hurt then (we saw it tonight with Wallace getting good open looks). Andy V gets double teamed on the glass/box out and still finds a way to outrebound the opposing team's front court. That's crazy. Obviously Varejao's shooting %s are going to take a hit given that he doesn't have the playmakers that Bosh and Lopez has setting him up.

Yes Lopez has better teammates, but that does not mean Varejao's stats are that much more impressive.

Is Varejao better than Blake Griffin? Is he better than Kevin Garnett? Is he better than Tim Duncan? Just because he doesn't have the talent around him like others do doesn't mean that his stats should mean more.

So a coach is supposed to pick one. Would they say "Okay, Lopez and Bosh have proven they can be focal points of a top offense" or are they supposed to say "Varejao plays by himself, maybe if he had good teammates he be even better".

Brook Lopez was often times triple teamed before this year and still put up 20 ppg shooting around 50%, yet he's not doing SOOO much better with real teammates the way you assume Varejao would. His teammates were worse than Varejao's. He had Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw, Johan Petro, and Devin Harris.

Lopez plays better defense than Varejao, given their defensive ratings.

Oh and just for your information, Lopez didn't play tonight and Gerald Wallace is an atrocious shooter. You guys say DWILL isn't a superstar anymore cause he's shooting below 40% and that Joe Johnson is average cause he too is shooting around 40%, yet when we talk about Lopez you say teams fear them so much.

Yes obviously teams fear the Nets' wing player more than the Cavs', but let's not act like the Nets have some sharp shooting 3pt men.

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 02:58 AM
I'm sure players and teams just don't care if AV grabs 18 or 20 boards with 20 points. They will just let him grab them to pad his stats.
My point about AV playing on a bad team (even with Irving) is that good teams should then know who is getting the most production and try to (using your term) "neutralize" them. But they're not. Bosh plays on the best team in the NBA so you can't focus on Bosh because then you have to worry about James, or Wade, or Ray... Brook Lopez plays with Brooklyn (also a better more seasoned team than the Cavs) so you can't just focus on him. AV plays with youth and development.
As I stayed, nothing against Bosh or Lopez they're both wonderful players and if you want to compare all PERs they're all very similar (yes AV is the lowest of the 3).
Also, I never said you brought up injuries nor did I boost Lin. My point is can AV sustain his rampage and can he stay healthy?
I think we might need a "rocket" scientist because apparently I said Lin was the best PG and I want to know how I came to that conclusion.

1) You pointed out that Irving has been out for 4 games. If that 4 sample size is so telling, why isn't Jeremy Lin's 2-3 weeks a more telling sample size?

2) And my point is that teams will gladly let Varejao try to hurt them. They don't care if he gets 15 and 15 because they know that alone won't hurt them if they can stop everyone else.

You seem to think that Varejao being on a bad makes up for the difference in their teams record. If that's so, please quantify how much playing on a bad team is compared to a good one.

You say Kyrie has been hurt all year. Did you know Deron Williams has an ankle he needs surgery on and has re-hurt his jammed wrist just about every game?

3) It's not as if Bosh and Lopez are slept on by teams. Lopez is the focal point of the Nets offense. That means he's their #1 option, teams game-plan to stop him more than anybody else. Don't make it sound like he's just benefiting from getting open looks like Bynum was doing in LA.

Chris Bosh is still a 20 point scorer. He's arguably their 2nd option, teams still try very hard to stop him.

Let me put it this way. Teams focus their defense on Lopez and Bosh far more than they do Varejao.

Arch Stanton
12-01-2012, 03:02 AM
Yes Lopez has better teammates, but that does not mean Varejao's stats are that much more impressive.

Is Varejao better than Blake Griffin? Is he better than Kevin Garnett? Is he better than Tim Duncan? Just because he doesn't have the talent around him like others do doesn't mean that his stats should mean more.

So a coach is supposed to pick one. Would they say "Okay, Lopez and Bosh have proven they can be focal points of a top offense" or are they supposed to say "Varejao plays by himself, maybe if he had good teammates he be even better".

Brook Lopez was often times triple teamed before this year and still put up 20 ppg shooting around 50%, yet he's not doing SOOO much better with real teammates the way you assume Varejao would. His teammates were worse than Varejao's. He had Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw, Johan Petro, and Devin Harris.

Lopez plays better defense than Varejao, given their defensive ratings.

Oh and just for your information, Lopez didn't play tonight and Gerald Wallace is an atrocious shooter. You guys say DWILL isn't a superstar anymore cause he's shooting below 40% and that Joe Johnson is average cause he too is shooting around 40%, yet when we talk about Lopez you say teams fear them so much.

Yes obviously teams fear the Nets' wing player more than the Cavs', but let's not act like the Nets have some sharp shooting 3pt men.

Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan play in the western conference so I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be a factor for AV unless he gets traded to the West.
It's okay if you prefer someone else over AV.... But your statements suggest we are insane for feeling AV should be in consideration. That's what I don't get. Are you suggesting AV is awful?
The sample size is this year up until now. Not before this year, nor what you project to happen. Call it a small sample size but then shouldn't all other players be held to the same standards? Or is this just a popularity club like the AS game really depicts?

mightybosstone
12-01-2012, 03:04 AM
It's Bosh and there isn't a close second.

Ebbs
12-01-2012, 03:05 AM
It's Bosh for me.

I really am appreciating Varejao for the first time this year though.

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 03:10 AM
Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan play in the western conference so I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be a factor for AV unless he gets traded to the West.
It's okay if you prefer someone else over AV.... But your statements suggest we are insane for feeling AV should be in consideration. That's what I don't get. Are you suggesting AV is awful?
The sample size is this year up until now. Not before this year, nor what you project to happen. Call it a small sample size but then shouldn't all other players be held to the same standards? Or is this just a popularity club like the AS game really depicts?


Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan play in the western conference so I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be a factor for AV unless he gets traded to the West.

1) I know they play in the West, that's not my point. My point was that if it's fair to say Varejao deserves it because he plays on a crappy team so we should diminish Lopez and Bosh, why can't we do it for every big man that's outproducing him on a better team?



It's okay if you prefer someone else over AV.... But your statements suggest we are insane for feeling AV should be in consideration. That's what I don't get. Are you suggesting AV is awful?

2) Please re-read my posts. When did I EVER say you guys were insane for feeling that he should be in consideration? Hands down he should be in consideration. I never refuted that. What I am refuting is that he should start. Lopez and Bosh have been better, that's what I'm saying. To say Varejao is in the discussion is obvious.




The sample size is this year up until now. Not before this year, nor what you project to happen. Call it a small sample size but then shouldn't all other players be held to the same standards? Or is this just a popularity club like the AS game really depicts?

3) Bosh and Lopez have proven they are 20-10, 20-7-8 players in the past on terrible teams. I don't think it's ludicrous that they are having arguably their best seasons as pro on a team that finally has some real players, whereas you have an older Varejao who's been nothing but an energy player his entire career to all of the sudden score 15 and grab 15 boards for the first 15 games.

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 03:10 AM
It's Bosh and there isn't a close second.

I say Lopez is a close second.

Mr_Jones
12-01-2012, 03:19 AM
I'd like to see Varejao get into the All-Star game.

Arch Stanton
12-01-2012, 03:19 AM
1) You pointed out that Irving has been out for 4 games. If that 4 sample size is so telling, why isn't Jeremy Lin's 2-3 weeks a more telling sample size?

2) And my point is that teams will gladly let Varejao try to hurt them. They don't care if he gets 15 and 15 because they know that alone won't hurt them if they can stop everyone else.

You seem to think that Varejao being on a bad makes up for the difference in their teams record. If that's so, please quantify how much playing on a bad team is compared to a good one.

You say Kyrie has been hurt all year. Did you know Deron Williams has an ankle he needs surgery on and has re-hurt his jammed wrist just about every game?

3) It's not as if Bosh and Lopez are slept on by teams. Lopez is the focal point of the Nets offense. That means he's their #1 option, teams game-plan to stop him more than anybody else. Don't make it sound like he's just benefiting from getting open looks like Bynum was doing in LA.

Chris Bosh is still a 20 point scorer. He's arguably their 2nd option, teams still try very hard to stop him.

Let me put it this way. Teams focus their defense on Lopez and Bosh far more than they do Varejao.

I never stated KI was out 4 games without AV. Actually that was you. And looking at the schedule KI has been out 6 games.
Not sure why you keep bringing up Lin. Too much Lin in this conversation. AV and Lin don't even play the same position so I don't understand the Lin comparison.
I disagree I think teams will focus on AV because they know that the rest of the Cavs roster isn't that good or better put "not as consistent as AV." But that's just my opinion.
I never said anything about AV making up any difference for the teams record. What I said was that AV plays on a BAD team so players don't have to focus on multiple proven all stars like Bosh and Heat. I didn't know about Deron Williams but I heard Kevin Love has a hang nail and it has impacted his rebound rate.
You had me at Lopez-Bosh! Or I mean you lost me. For X-Mas I just wish teams will "try a little harder to stop AV." Please Santa Please!

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 03:24 AM
I never stated KI was out 4 games without AV. Actually that was you. And looking at the schedule KI has been out 6 games.
Not sure why you keep bringing up Lin. Too much Lin in this conversation. AV and Lin don't even play the same position so I don't understand the Lin comparison.
I disagree I think teams will focus on AV because they know that the rest of the Cavs roster isn't that good or better put "not as consistent as AV." But that's just my opinion.
I never said anything about AV making up any difference for the teams record. What I said was that AV plays on a BAD team so players don't have to focus on multiple proven all stars like Bosh and Heat. I didn't know about Deron Williams but I heard Kevin Love has a hang nail and it has impacted his rebound rate.
You had me at Lopez-Bosh! Or I mean you lost me. For X-Mas I just wish teams will "try a little harder to stop AV." Please Santa Please!


I never stated KI was out 4 games without AV. Actually that was you. And looking at the schedule KI has been out 6 games.

If it wasn't you then it was the other guy, swashcuff or something like that.



Not sure why you keep bringing up Lin. Too much Lin in this conversation. AV and Lin don't even play the same position so I don't understand the Lin comparison.

I brought up Lin once and you didn't understand the comparison so I explained it, although you still don't seem to get it.



I disagree I think teams will focus on AV because they know that the rest of the Cavs roster isn't that good or better put "not as consistent as AV." But that's just my opinion.

Well there's two ways to look at this. One could say "Stop Irving and Varejao at all costs", or one could say "Stop Irving and let Varejao get his 15 and 15 because in the end that won't kill us if we just contain everyone else"

I admit I don't watch Cavs games, but I'd be a little shocked to see him getting double or triple teamed.



I never said anything about AV making up any difference for the teams record. What I said was that AV plays on a BAD team so players don't have to focus on multiple proven all stars like Bosh and Heat.

Okay. By saying he plays on a bad team you're saying he gets more attention. By saying he gets more attention you're saying it's harder for him to put up good numbers. By saying that, you're saying playing on a bad team makes up for statistical differences compared to a player putting up better numbers on a good team.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 04:10 AM
1. Brook Lopez Per 36 minutes: 24 PER, 22.4 points, .534 field goal percentage, 8.2 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 blocks, 0.6 steals

2. Tyson Chandler Per 36 minutes: 22.3 PER, 14.5 points, .718 FG%, 10.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.9 steals

3. Anderson Varejao Per 36 minutes: 23.9 PER, 14.6 points, .525 FG%, 15 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 0.4 blocks, 1.5 steals

4. Al Horford Per 36 minutes: 19 PER, 15.9 points, .538 FG%, 9.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.1 blocks, 0.5 steals

5. Joakim Noah Per 36 minutes: 18.8 PER, 12.4 points, .479 FG%, 9 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 2.1 blocks, 1.3 steals

Arch Stanton
12-01-2012, 04:12 AM
If it wasn't you then it was the other guy, swashcuff or something like that.



I brought up Lin once and you didn't understand the comparison so I explained it, although you still don't seem to get it.



Well there's two ways to look at this. One could say "Stop Irving and Varejao at all costs", or one could say "Stop Irving and let Varejao get his 15 and 15 because in the end that won't kill us if we just contain everyone else"

I admit I don't watch Cavs games, but I'd be a little shocked to see him getting double or triple teamed.



Okay. By saying he plays on a bad team you're saying he gets more attention. By saying he gets more attention you're saying it's harder for him to put up good numbers. By saying that, you're saying playing on a bad team makes up for statistical differences compared to a player putting up better numbers on a good team.

You brought up Lin once and DIDN'T explain it. So explain please. But again I don't see how it would matter. Is Lin grabbing over 15 rebounds a night? Is Lin playing center for the Rockets? I think what you're suggesting is that AV is a flash in a pan. And if that's the case then you're wrong. As you can see he's trending upwards and as his usage has increased so has his efficiency.
You don't watch the Cavs nor AV? Big surprise! I think it's a little more complicated than double teams and triple teams. Apparently what you're telling me is that teams typically double team or triple team opposing players trying to grab rebounds? Is that correct?

VinceCarter
12-01-2012, 04:21 AM
Lopez last 5 games: 28.8 mpg, .512 FG%, 18.8 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2.6 bpg

He's been looking great. Have to see if he keeps it up and can get a rightful spot on the lineup...

NYYCowboys
12-01-2012, 04:28 AM
I'd go with Varejao.

KingPosey
12-01-2012, 05:08 AM
Big men are position less in the all star game now right? The Tim Duncan exemption? That opens the door for tons of forwards to get the nod, since center is weak. Brook Lopez will probably get in, then Chandler just because of NY, then maybe Noah, but lots of forwards can steal a spot from any of the centers

Faneik
12-01-2012, 05:26 AM
What? How exactly does that contradict my point? He has played well in the absence of Irving, but that's 4 games. If you want to go with a sample size that small, were you calling Jeremy Lin the best PG at one point last year?

I never pointed to his injuries, I dont know why you brought that up.

Bosh and Lopez play a critical role on two of the better teams. Varejao scores 15 and grabs 15 on a bad team. Plus let's compare their per 36.

Varejao. 14.6-15.0-0.4-52.5%
Bosh. 21.3-8.8-1.4-56%
Lopez. 22.4-8.2-3.0-53.4%

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which of the 3 is clearly the worst.

you undervalue rebounds tremendously. Vaejao is on the verge of out-rebounding the other 2 combined.

more rebounds --> more possessions --> more points for your team

"which of the 3 is clearly the worst" - this tells me you have something against Varejao. All the 3 have a case for being in the ASG given their productivity so far.

Also you keep pointing that Varejao plays on a bad team and the other 2 on good teams to help your point. That's just wrong. If you'd see Cavs games, you'd notice Varejao doesn't have the play-makers the other 2 have.

Varejao's points come from his hustle, high motor. This compensates for his lesser talent.

If he keeps this productivity, he has a case. Deal with it. It's not like I'm the only one telling you this.

JEDean89
12-01-2012, 06:54 AM
Who the hell is gonna vote for Anderson Varejao as the starting 5 when its fowards guards now? I think he has a good chance as a coaches pick as a reserve but not the starting 5. Stern would probably fine someone for starting Varejao at the allstar game anyway.

Eastern Lineup
Bosh
Lebron
Melo
Wade
Rose

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 09:15 AM
1. Brook Lopez Per 36 minutes: 24 PER, 22.4 points, .534 field goal percentage, 8.2 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 blocks, 0.6 steals

2. Tyson Chandler Per 36 minutes: 22.3 PER, 14.5 points, .718 FG%, 10.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.9 steals

3. Anderson Varejao Per 36 minutes: 23.9 PER, 14.6 points, .525 FG%, 15 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 0.4 blocks, 1.5 steals

4. Al Horford Per 36 minutes: 19 PER, 15.9 points, .538 FG%, 9.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.1 blocks, 0.5 steals

5. Joakim Noah Per 36 minutes: 18.8 PER, 12.4 points, .479 FG%, 9 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 2.1 blocks, 1.3 steals

Tell me something do you know that PER is heavily influenced by minutes played? So unless you're going to calculate the numbers by the adjusted minutes its best to leave the inaccurate PER # out of your per36 argument.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 09:45 AM
Yes Lopez has better teammates, but that does not mean Varejao's stats are that much more impressive.

Is Varejao better than Blake Griffin? Is he better than Kevin Garnett? Is he better than Tim Duncan? Just because he doesn't have the talent around him like others do doesn't mean that his stats should mean more.

That point just FLEW over your head didn't it. It's called putting #s into context relevant to those they have around them.

So a coach is supposed to pick one. Would they say "Okay, Lopez and Bosh have proven they can be focal points of a top offense" or are they supposed to say "Varejao plays by himself, maybe if he had good teammates he be even better".


Brook Lopez was often times triple teamed before this year and still put up 20 ppg shooting around 50%, yet he's not doing SOOO much better with real teammates the way you assume Varejao would. His teammates were worse than Varejao's. He had Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw, Johan Petro, and Devin Harris.

Your point was that Brook proved he can be a 20 and 8 before completely disregarding context in an attempt to knock Andy V for not being able to get those types of numbers but you completely ignored his crap team. Thanks for sharing his supporting casts you're just hurting your argument and helping mine.


Lopez plays better defense than Varejao, given their defensive ratings.

Does Carlos Boozer play better D than him to? How about DeAndre Jordan and Marc Gasol is he a better defensive player than them? DRtg is an absolutely useless stat when attempting to gauge the defensive individuals.

The Nets actually get better defensively (http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN15.HTM#onoff) when Brook hits the bench as compared to when he's on the floor despite having such a solid DRtg. While the Cavs on the other hand more or less stay around the same with Andy V on the bench (http://www.82games.com/1213/12CLE14.HTM#onoff). He however holds his oppenents to a much lower PER (http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG3.HTM) than Brook. If that's not enough for you there is also these players DRAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html)where Varejao's is -0.1 while Verajao's is +1.8 (among the upper third at the C).

Just in case you wanted some stats for your argument.


Oh and just for your information, Lopez didn't play tonight and Gerald Wallace is an atrocious shooter. You guys say DWILL isn't a superstar anymore cause he's shooting below 40% and that Joe Johnson is average cause he too is shooting around 40%, yet when we talk about Lopez you say teams fear them so much.

Didn't say Lopez played I was speaking of his supporting cast. Despite the fact that Wallace is a poor shooter (and has regressed as a player) and the Nets backcourt haven't been shooting the ball well to start the season they are still high quality players (as seen in the eyes of opposing teams and coaches) and as a result they'd see more defensive attention.


Yes obviously teams fear the Nets' wing player more than the Cavs', but let's not act like the Nets have some sharp shooting 3pt men.

There %s to start the season really don't matter. Not because they are shooting poorly means other teams are going to defend them differently. Deron and Joe have track records for being solid perimeter scorers and deadly 3 point shooters, no team wants to run the risk of them getting hot against them on a given night since we all know they have it in them. You also seem to be forgetting Jerry Stackhouse who's shooting the ball at an insane clip to start this season.

One thing we've neglected to mention as well is their passing. An area where Varejao is way more valuable than Brook as well.

Brook has played solidly to start the season no doubt in my mind. Andy V however has played better but because of the fact that he plays on a weaker team he isn't going to get the kind of love Lopez is getting. I can assure you though that had the script been flipped though the sentiments being echoed in this thread would be totally different.

Daze9900
12-01-2012, 09:55 AM
Bosh, Lopez

tnewkirk
12-01-2012, 10:00 AM
1. Brook Lopez Per 36 minutes: 24 PER, 22.4 points, .534 field goal percentage, 8.2 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 blocks, 0.6 steals

2. Tyson Chandler Per 36 minutes: 22.3 PER, 14.5 points, .718 FG%, 10.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.9 steals

3. Anderson Varejao Per 36 minutes: 23.9 PER, 14.6 points, .525 FG%, 15 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 0.4 blocks, 1.5 steals

4. Al Horford Per 36 minutes: 19 PER, 15.9 points, .538 FG%, 9.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.1 blocks, 0.5 steals

5. Joakim Noah Per 36 minutes: 18.8 PER, 12.4 points, .479 FG%, 9 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 2.1 blocks, 1.3 steals

and once again a big :facepalm: to all the people that said lopez isnt a top 10 center, i hope the nets fans quoted you lol.

DoMeFavors
12-01-2012, 01:02 PM
I love reading the top 10 center threads the past 2 years where these players that arent close to Brooks level are voted top 10 centers. Shows how little people know.

HouRealCoach
12-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Bosh will start with Melo, LeBron, Wade, & Deron/Rondo but hopefully Uncle Drew can claim his spot

Minimal
12-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Bosh, Lopez and Anderson V are the most deserving to make all star team.

HouRealCoach
12-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Now Brook Lopez is a Top 10 Center right now... Especially this year without Bogut & Bynum

DoMeFavors
12-01-2012, 01:40 PM
Now Brook Lopez is a Top 10 Center right now... Especially this year without Bogut & Bynum

He is top 3

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 01:55 PM
Chandler has the leagues best shooting percentage so chandler should start. Im not even being a homer

DoMeFavors
12-01-2012, 02:02 PM
Chandler has the leagues best shooting percentage so chandler should start. Im not even being a homer

So shooting % means someone should start an all star game? that makes no sense

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 02:16 PM
Or at least be a reserve

rocket
12-01-2012, 02:19 PM
1. Brook Lopez Per 36 minutes: 24 PER, 22.4 points, .534 field goal percentage, 8.2 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 blocks, 0.6 steals

2. Tyson Chandler Per 36 minutes: 22.3 PER, 14.5 points, .718 FG%, 10.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.9 steals

3. Anderson Varejao Per 36 minutes: 23.9 PER, 14.6 points, .525 FG%, 15 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 0.4 blocks, 1.5 steals

4. Al Horford Per 36 minutes: 19 PER, 15.9 points, .538 FG%, 9.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.1 blocks, 0.5 steals

5. Joakim Noah Per 36 minutes: 18.8 PER, 12.4 points, .479 FG%, 9 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 2.1 blocks, 1.3 steals

And Greg Monroe has more a better per 36 than those you mentioned besides Varejao. Lopez or Bosh should start.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 02:38 PM
Tell me something do you know that PER is heavily influenced by minutes played? So unless you're going to calculate the numbers by the adjusted minutes its best to leave the inaccurate PER # out of your per36 argument.

PER strives to measure a player's per-minute performance, while adjusting for pace. Meanwhile, I'lm listing the players' stats per minute.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 03:12 PM
I love reading the top 10 center threads the past 2 years where these players that arent close to Brooks level are voted top 10 centers. Shows how little people know.

You keep on saying that, but it doesn't change the fact that your boy Lopez is a softie when it comes to rebounding, one of the main purposes of having a center. It looks as if he's getting better at that, though, so I'll give credit where credit is due - and not to you.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 03:17 PM
And Greg Monroe has more a better per 36 than those you mentioned besides Varejao. Lopez or Bosh should start.

Greg Monroe (19.4 PER) per 36 Minutes: 17.9 points, .483 FG%, 10.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 steals

He doesn't looking startlingly impressive compared to the other guys on the list. And if Monroe wasn't on a crappy team where scoring 17.9 points per 36 minutes makes you the primary option, he might actually have a chance of being an all-star.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 03:18 PM
And Greg Monroe has more a better per 36 than those you mentioned besides Varejao. Lopez or Bosh should start.

Greg Monroe (19.4 PER) per 36 Minutes: 17.9 points, .483 FG%, 10.1 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 steals

He doesn't looking startlingly impressive compared to the other guys on the list. And if Monroe wasn't on a crappy team where scoring 16.5 points per game makes you the leading scorer, he might actually have a chance of being an all-star.

mrblisterdundee
12-01-2012, 03:20 PM
Bosh will start with Melo, LeBron, Wade, & Deron/Rondo but hopefully Uncle Drew can claim his spot

Regardless of Miami's "positionless basketball," I still wouldn't start Bosh at center or LeBron James at power forward. That said, I think they both should start at their historic positions, with a real center playing center.

archdevil84
12-01-2012, 03:23 PM
men i shoud have added a pol to this thread! lol

Thunder-Sooner
12-01-2012, 03:28 PM
My vote would be for Hibbert or Chandler.

#1NetsFan
12-01-2012, 03:45 PM
Brook Lopez without hesitation, he's very underrated.

VinceCarter
12-01-2012, 04:24 PM
Who the hell is gonna vote for Anderson Varejao as the starting 5 when its fowards guards now? I think he has a good chance as a coaches pick as a reserve but not the starting 5. Stern would probably fine someone for starting Varejao at the allstar game anyway.

Eastern Lineup
Bosh
Lebron
Melo
Wade
Rose

:confused::confused::confused::facepalm:

Stunner
12-01-2012, 04:44 PM
Only 3 good playing Centers in the East with winning Records Bosh , Noah and Lopez . They should get the nod above anyone outside of that C's with losing records Monroe and AV

QueensG_718
12-01-2012, 04:46 PM
Only 3 good playing Centers in the East with winning Records Bosh , Noah and Lopez . They should get the nod above anyone outside of that C's with losing records Monroe and AV

Chandler? Knicks 11-4

Stunner
12-01-2012, 04:46 PM
Why is everyone saying Chandler ? He's been Average this year Noah and AV are more deserving

Stunner
12-01-2012, 04:48 PM
Chandler? Knicks 11-4

I said good playing , he's been average this year . The other C's are playing better .

alexander_37
12-01-2012, 05:55 PM
There aren't any "forward" spots either.

Your point being?

alexander_37
12-01-2012, 05:58 PM
Oj Mayo and/or Westbrook over Harden? Man people need to get away from the paint thinner.

Sportfan
12-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Vaj/Bosh should be starting


no mention of KG for reserve?

Hawkeye15
12-01-2012, 07:20 PM
Chandler for me.

justinnum1
12-01-2012, 07:25 PM
williams
wade
melo
bron
bosh

is my starting 5
reserves would be
rondo
holliday
johnson(even tho he has been trash this season)
pierce
smith
KG
lopez

BoSox47
12-01-2012, 07:37 PM
Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo
Dwyane Wade
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Chris Bosh


this guy hasnt been good since 2009. if he started thatd be garbage.

rondo, jrue holiday, and maybe even calderon are playing better then deron this year. if your saying deron based off the fact he will get a ton of votes due to him playing in brooklyn then i understand.

uprightciti
12-01-2012, 07:37 PM
Wow lotta foolish chatter on the boards...chandler bosh Lopez varajo in that order

knicksfan42
12-01-2012, 07:52 PM
All-Stars based on performance thus far:

PG-Holiday
SG-Wade
SF-Melo
PF-LeBron
C-Bosh


Rondo
Jr Smith
Deng
Josh Smith
KG
Varejao (I only put players from playoff teams thus far, but his play has been outstanding thus far, so maybe he can be that one guy with a losing record who gets in)
Williams

Sportfan
12-01-2012, 07:55 PM
How is D-Will starting PG LOL? Rondo and Jrue are the only viable candidates.

More-Than-Most
12-01-2012, 07:59 PM
I love reading the top 10 center threads the past 2 years where these players that arent close to Brooks level are voted top 10 centers. Shows how little people know.

You also care little for defense/Rebounding and that is why you think that.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 08:17 PM
Your point being?

That your post made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Hawkeye15
12-01-2012, 08:33 PM
I love reading the top 10 center threads the past 2 years where these players that arent close to Brooks level are voted top 10 centers. Shows how little people know.

Lopez has played well, and will probably make the all star team if he keeps it up. But he hasn't been the biggest impact center in the east.

Schulte212
12-01-2012, 08:39 PM
Honestly, how is this even a close discussion? Varejao is absolutely toying with teams out there. He's been nothing short of dominant. The guy has 8 straight games with 10+ points, 15+ rebounds, and 5+ offensive rebounds. The only other player with a streak like that is Moses Malone.

He's been one of the best players in the NBA thus far. The way he has been impacting games is unreal. Can he keep it up/stay healthy? I don't think so. But if we are asking this question now, and basing our answers off of what these guys have done this season, the clear answer is AV.

I really don't think it's even close.

Hawkeye15
12-01-2012, 08:43 PM
Honestly, how is this even a close discussion? Varejao is absolutely toying with teams out there. He's been nothing short of dominant. The guy has 8 straight games with 10+ points, 15+ rebounds, and 5+ offensive rebounds. The only other player with a streak like that is Moses Malone.

He's been one of the best players in the NBA thus far. The way he has been impacting games is unreal. Can he keep it up/stay healthy? I don't think so. But if we are asking this question now, and basing our answers off of what these guys have done this season, the clear answer is AV.

I really don't think it's even close.

you are leaving out the politics of the all star game. Cleveland is not good. Anderson isnt getting many votes, being in Cleveland.

Trust me, I am with you, he deserves to be there. But I will be mildly surprised if he makes it.

alexander_37
12-01-2012, 08:43 PM
That your post made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

How did it not, the only " center " in the East that could get in really is Bosh. The other front court spots will get taken by PF's and SF's.

How does it not make sense...

Cal827
12-01-2012, 08:48 PM
Joel Anthony

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Honestly, how is this even a close discussion? Varejao is absolutely toying with teams out there. He's been nothing short of dominant. The guy has 8 straight games with 10+ points, 15+ rebounds, and 5+ offensive rebounds. The only other player with a streak like that is Moses Malone.

He's been one of the best players in the NBA thus far. The way he has been impacting games is unreal. Can he keep it up/stay healthy? I don't think so. But if we are asking this question now, and basing our answers off of what these guys have done this season, the clear answer is AV.

I really don't think it's even close.

Where are you getting this info?

TheSource
12-01-2012, 08:59 PM
A true center might not even get the starting position (Brook), as the lineups only consists of 3 forwards and 2 guards. Since the SF, and PF positions are already locked, a PF more deserving than a C will be able to start if they got voted on.

Schulte212
12-01-2012, 09:00 PM
Where are you getting this info?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2419/anderson-varejao

Scroll towards the news stories at the bottom.

Swashcuff
12-01-2012, 09:09 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2419/anderson-varejao

Scroll towards the news stories at the bottom.

Well that's what is documented I'm sure that Wilt has done the same. It's an amazing accomplishment nonetheless however.

RonE Coleman
12-01-2012, 09:14 PM
williams
wade
melo
bron
bosh

is my starting 5
reserves would be
rondo
holliday
johnson(even tho he has been trash this season)
pierce
smith
KG
lopez

Im guessing you did this based on popularity rather than performance so far? Cause theres no way d will wade or bosh should be starting, all stars yes but kyrie or jrue should be starting with rondo in the backcourt

RonE Coleman
12-01-2012, 09:16 PM
How is D-Will starting PG LOL? Rondo and Jrue are the only viable candidates.

This

krisxsong
12-01-2012, 09:19 PM
This

Because coaches know DWILL is just struggling. Does Jrue and Rondo deserve it more so far? Of course.

BoSox47
01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
Because coaches know DWILL is just struggling. Does Jrue and Rondo deserve it more so far? Of course.


thats about a 3 season long struggle... when does a struggle turn into hes lost it?>

lamzoka
01-04-2013, 02:33 PM
guys like Vareja and Monroe wont be in the game just because their stats and not translating to Ws

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 03:23 PM
guys like Vareja and Monroe wont be in the game just because their stats and not translating to Ws

So do you think Raymond Felton should be in the game ahead of Kyrie Irving?

jkiddvc20
01-04-2013, 03:41 PM
All I know is that Brook Lopez is most definitely deserving.

Mr_Amaziing
01-04-2013, 04:33 PM
I would have to go with Noah

BabyJayMusic
01-04-2013, 04:48 PM
Didn't they get rid of the C in the votes anyway?

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 04:54 PM
Brook Lopez leads all NBA Centers with a PER of 25.61. His 25.61 is good enough for 5th in the NBA, behind LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, and Carmelo Anthony.

The center that has the second highest PER is McGee and he has a PER of 22.30. That's a difference of 3.31. Think that's nothing? The difference between McGee and the 12th best Center, Dwight Howard, is smaller than the difference between Lopez and McGee.

7th in the NBA in blocks and 8th in block%. And no before you get your panties all tied up in a bunch I'm not saying blocks alone are a good way to measure defense, nor am I saying he's some great defensive big.

As for his supposed bad rebounding? He has a higher rebound rate than Nikola Pekovic, Chris Bosh, Kendrick Perkins, and Marc Gasol. No I'm not saying he's some great rebounder but 9 rebound per 36 is not terrible. The guys has really only had 1 terrible year at rebounding. He was never a good rebounder, but he seems to have put in much more effort this year.

Brook Lopez ranks in the top 12% of NBA players both offensively and defensively per Synergy, and has scored more points off cuts than any player in the NBA despite having missed seven games.

The Nets improve defensively with Lopez on the court. Over the course of the season, the Nets defense is 3.4 points better per 100 possessions with Brook Lopez on the floor. Overall, Lopez has the second-best on-court defensive rating of any Brooklyn Nets player, trailing just Reggie Evans. Yes he's head of Gerald Wallace.

After reading all this, it's incredible to see that he is 15th in front court voting for the East. It's even more incredible that guys like Shane Battier, Amare Stoudemire, and Andrew Bynum are way ahead of him.

HowFit
01-04-2013, 04:58 PM
Bosh or Noah...

uprightciti
01-04-2013, 05:00 PM
what a joke...Lopez...Varajo....COME ON!

Chandler has kept the Knicks playing at a high level for the entire season and is continuing to do so

DUDE IS A BEAST and NEVER gets the real credit he deserves

MAKE HIM AN ALLSTAR

JOhnnyTHaJet
01-04-2013, 05:01 PM
After reading all this, it's incredible to see that he is 15th in front court voting for the East. It's even more incredible that guys like Shane Battier, Amare Stoudemire, and Andrew Bynum are way ahead of him.

Because people are extremely ignorant and just stick to names they know.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:10 PM
what a joke...Lopez...Varajo....COME ON!

Chandler has kept the Knicks playing at a high level for the entire season and is continuing to do so

DUDE IS A BEAST and NEVER gets the real credit he deserves

MAKE HIM AN ALLSTAR

He never gets credit he deserves? The dude was defensive player of the year last year what are you talking about?

Knicks fans I swear feel like nobody on their team gets enough credit and that everybody is just a hater.

He's a defensive beast and he got credit for that. He's recognized as probably the best PnR Center in the NBA, even though he can't do anything else on offense.

That doesn't show why he deserves to go to the AS game. It shows that he's a good Center, but doesn't show why he's playing better than his fellow front court mates.

faze38
01-04-2013, 05:21 PM
How about Tyson Chandler by far the best defensive Center in the league right now and putting up numbers of 12.7 and 10.3 with a per of 21.81! Not bad. His offensive game has gotten better this year and he has been having some nasty games as of late!

ee
01-04-2013, 05:22 PM
Brook Lopez leads all NBA Centers with a PER of 25.61. His 25.61 is good enough for 5th in the NBA, behind LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, and Carmelo Anthony.

The center that has the second highest PER is McGee and he has a PER of 22.30. That's a difference of 3.31. Think that's nothing? The difference between McGee and the 12th best Center, Dwight Howard, is smaller than the difference between Lopez and McGee.

7th in the NBA in blocks and 8th in block%. And no before you get your panties all tied up in a bunch I'm not saying blocks alone are a good way to measure defense, nor am I saying he's some great defensive big.

As for his supposed bad rebounding? He has a higher rebound rate than Nikola Pekovic, Chris Bosh, Kendrick Perkins, and Marc Gasol. No I'm not saying he's some great rebounder but 9 rebound per 36 is not terrible. The guys has really only had 1 terrible year at rebounding. He was never a good rebounder, but he seems to have put in much more effort this year.

Brook Lopez ranks in the top 12% of NBA players both offensively and defensively per Synergy, and has scored more points off cuts than any player in the NBA despite having missed seven games.

The Nets improve defensively with Lopez on the court. Over the course of the season, the Nets defense is 3.4 points better per 100 possessions with Brook Lopez on the floor. Overall, Lopez has the second-best on-court defensive rating of any Brooklyn Nets player, trailing just Reggie Evans. Yes he's head of Gerald Wallace.

After reading all this, it's incredible to see that he is 15th in front court voting for the East. It's even more incredible that guys like Shane Battier, Amare Stoudemire, and Andrew Bynum are way ahead of him.
I'm a big nets fan but the Nets need to get back up in the standings for lopez to get in.....I do believe coaches sees him as a threat so who knows...

faze38
01-04-2013, 05:23 PM
He never gets credit he deserves? The dude was defensive player of the year last year what are you talking about?

Knicks fans I swear feel like nobody on their team gets enough credit and that everybody is just a hater.

He's a defensive beast and he got credit for that. He's recognized as probably the best PnR Center in the NBA, even though he can't do anything else on offense.

That doesn't show why he deserves to go to the AS game. It shows that he's a good Center, but doesn't show why he's playing better than his fellow front court mates.

Yeah and even tho he was DPOY he still didn't make 1st all defensive team now that is a snub if I ever heard one. Come on now u have to be honest with yourself the man is constantly disrespected.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:25 PM
Yeah and even tho he was DPOY he still didn't make 1st all defensive team now that is a snub if I ever heard one. Come on now u have to be honest with yourself the man is constantly disrespected.

Constantly disrespected? Again he's widely considered one of the best Centers, a top defensive Center and the most efficient Center in the NBA.

Just because you don't make 1st all team doesn't mean you're being disrespected man.

So if he gets both awards then that's rightful, but if he only gets one that means he's constantly getting disrespected?

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:26 PM
I'm a big nets fan but the Nets need to get back up in the standings for lopez to get in.....I do believe coaches sees him as a threat so who knows...

Lopez will never get in because nobody knows him, doesn't have to do with his team.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:28 PM
How about Tyson Chandler by far the best defensive Center in the league right now and putting up numbers of 12.7 and 10.3 with a per of 21.81! Not bad. His offensive game has gotten better this year and he has been having some nasty games as of late!

No he is not the best defensive center in the league, and most certainly not by far, well at least IMO.

12.7 and 10.3 is nice, but it's nothing to rave about. His 21.81 PER is nice but again nothing special.

His offensive game has always been bad. At least the guy is smart and only takes shots he knows he can make.

faze38
01-04-2013, 05:30 PM
Constantly disrespected? Again he's widely considered one of the best Centers, a top defensive Center and the most efficient Center in the NBA.

Just because you don't make 1st all team doesn't mean you're being disrespected man.

So if he gets both awards then that's rightful, but if he only gets one that means he's constantly getting disrespected?

who said first all team. I said first defensive team. Your gonna sit her and say that's not a slap in the face why don't u look up past DPOY winners and see if any of them didn't make first defensive team!

faze38
01-04-2013, 05:34 PM
No he is not the best defensive center in the league, and most certainly not by far, well at least IMO.

12.7 and 10.3 is nice, but it's nothing to rave about. His 21.81 PER is nice but again nothing special.

His offensive game has always been bad. At least the guy is smart and only takes shots he knows he can make.

Really last time I checked he is the reigning DPOY doesn't that mean he was the best defensive player in the league last year. Come on now, your playing can u name another Center that is in his league! The only man up there with Chandler is Dwight and he is not 100%.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:37 PM
who said first all team. I said first defensive team. Your gonna sit her and say that's not a slap in the face why don't u look up past DPOY winners and see if any of them didn't make first defensive team!

You said he NEVER gets the recognition he deserves. The guy got DPOY. That's not recognition?

How is a slap in the face that you got DPOY but didn't get 1st all nba defense? You act like Tyson Chandler is Hakeem.

Tyson Chandler is a good Center who got DPOY but didn't get 1st All NBA Defensive team. He got on the 2nd team, big deal.

Getting on the 2nd team is a slap in the face?

Do you see why people don't like Knicks fans? You guys feel like you're entitled to so much, that if everything doesn't go your way everyone's a hater and you guys are sooooo underrated.

What have you guys won in your history that gives you the right to feel so entitled?

faze38
01-04-2013, 05:39 PM
Funny part is your saying his numbers aren't anything to rave about but how about being on of the few 7 footers in the league an avg less then 10 boards even tho your not know as one of the best rotating big man which means you are there to get the boards you just suck at it! Chandler may not avg 10 for his career but he is in on every defensive play Brook just sucks a boarding and is only a half decent all around defensive player. If he's not getting blocks he's getting toasted!

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:41 PM
Really last time I checked he is the reigning DPOY doesn't that mean he was the best defensive player in the league last year. Come on now, your playing can u name another Center that is in his league! The only man up there with Chandler is Dwight and he is not 100%.

The reason you think Tyson is by far the best, with nobody being in his league is probably because you only watch Knicks games. Did you see Tyson in Chicago, or New Orleans?

Anyway, I have Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, and Andrew Bynum better than Tyson on defense. Even if they aren't, to say that Tyson is in a league of his own is ludicrous.

I would put Noah, Perkins, Marc Gasol, Pekovic, Asik, and Tim Duncan at least in Tysons league in terms of defense.

Tyson gets all the recognition he deserves.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:43 PM
Funny part is your saying his numbers aren't anything to rave about but how about being on of the few 7 footers in the league an avg less then 10 boards even tho your not know as one of the best rotating big man which means you are there to get the boards you just suck at it! Chandler may not avg 10 for his career but he is in on every defensive play Brook just sucks a boarding and is only a half decent all around defensive player. If he's not getting blocks he's getting toasted!

Yes Brook Lopez is a bad rebounder. If you think rebounding is about height then you are sadly mistaken and must have never seen Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace play.

Brook Lopez is averaging 9 RPG per 36 playing next to two of the best rebound-per-minute players in Reggie Evans and Kris Humphries. Who does Tyson Chandler have? Melo? Amare?

Yes Tyson is a much better rebounder no question.

And yes I think Lopez is better than Tyson, but I never even brought that up in this thread why are you making things up.

faze38
01-04-2013, 05:47 PM
You said he NEVER gets the recognition he deserves. The guy got DPOY. That's not recognition?

How is a slap in the face that you got DPOY but didn't get 1st all nba defense? You act like Tyson Chandler is Hakeem.

Tyson Chandler is a good Center who got DPOY but didn't get 1st All NBA Defensive team. He got on the 2nd team, big deal.

Getting on the 2nd team is a slap in the face?

Do you see why people don't like Knicks fans? You guys feel like you're entitled to so much, that if everything doesn't go your way everyone's a hater and you guys are sooooo underrated.

What have you guys won in your history that gives you the right to feel so entitled?

Really are u kidding right now. I mean come on now the man deserved 1st defensive team but still got undervalued and got dropped a team but u want to act like that is the norm. Your playing yourself. That is something that has never happened before and the first time it does it's to Tyson Chandler thats not undervalued. Every where the man has gone he has made a impact on a teams defense but was never considered anything special until he single handedly changed the Mavs D and then did the same for the Knicks.

See i'm not much of a bleacher report fan but check out how they feel about him being on the second team.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1194052-nba-all-defensive-team-2012-grading-first-and-second-team-picks

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 05:49 PM
Really are u kidding right now. I mean come on now the man deserved 1st defensive team but still got undervalued and got dropped a team but u want to act like that is the norm. Your playing yourself. That is something that has never happened before and the first time it does it's to Tyson Chandler thats not undervalued. Every where the man has gone he has made a impact on a teams defense but was never considered anything special until he single handedly changed the Mavs D and then did the same for the Knicks.

See i'm not much of a bleacher report fan but check out how they feel about him being on the second team.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1194052-nba-all-defensive-team-2012-grading-first-and-second-team-picks

So is this your only case? This is your case for Tyson NEVER getting ANY recognition?

Hickenlooper
01-04-2013, 05:54 PM
Anyone but Noah. Not because of his play. I just can't stand him. He must be the least likable athlete on earth.

P Styles
01-04-2013, 06:00 PM
Tyson has taken a step back defensively this year IMO

faze38
01-04-2013, 06:10 PM
The reason you think Tyson is by far the best, with nobody being in his league is probably because you only watch Knicks games. Did you see Tyson in Chicago, or New Orleans?

Anyway, I have Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, and Andrew Bynum better than Tyson on defense. Even if they aren't, to say that Tyson is in a league of his own is ludicrous.

I would put Noah, Perkins, Marc Gasol, Pekovic, Asik, and Tim Duncan at least in Tysons league in terms of defense.

Tyson gets all the recognition he deserves.

No I am def a super big hoops fan. Watch as much ball as I can and to say that a man who hasn't played in about two years is over Chandler is just dumb and then to put Bynum who has no lateral quickness and got exposed by the Thunder and Mavs in back to back playoffs is even dumber. I mean to make that even worse the man isn't going to play at all this season are u kidding me. You are making an argument with players that aren't even playing. To top it off u a re putting guys these other guys over him please stop playing let's break these guys down a bit!

Perkins- Poor help defender lost a lots of laterally quickness after his acl injury.
Pekovic- Not even gonna go there because that is just funny. His Drtg last year was 107 which is worse then Chandlers worst year in his career including his rookie year!
Duncan- Once upon a time but come o now the man isn't the defensive player he once was!
Gasol- Is def a beast but much like Perkins lacks the athletic ability of a Chandler so isn't quiet the help defender that Chandler is advantage Chandler!
Asik- Is another great defender but lacks the leadership of a Chandler on D! I mean come on now tell me that Asik can go the Mavs and win a ring and then move to the Knicks and make one of the worse defensive teams one of the best come on now u know u don't really means this.
Noah- Another great defender this is probably the closest to a Chandler and a Howard! In my eyes he is the 3rd best defensive center in the league has all the tools of an elite defender but to me that ring and top level communication separates the 2!

So much like I said Chandler and Howard are in a league of there own right now

faze38
01-04-2013, 06:13 PM
So is this your only case? This is your case for Tyson NEVER getting ANY recognition?

Come on now really now let's see what the best defensive coach in the league thinks about Chandler!

http://basketball.******.com/wiretap/219660/Thibodeau_Chandler_One_Of_Most_Underrated_Players_ In_NBA

I can do this all day!

put real gm were the stars are one word

faze38
01-04-2013, 06:17 PM
Tyson has taken a step back defensively this year IMO

And even with that he is still the best defensive Center . If u really look at it tho it's not really that he took a big step back tho it's that we are playing undersized and not having Shumpert to stop some of these top level athletic guards in the league is hurting him a bit. Once Shumpert comes back and he isn't trying to fill every defensive hole on our team he will look like his last year self!

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 06:20 PM
Come on now really now let's see what the best defensive coach in the league thinks about Chandler!

http://basketball.******.com/wiretap/219660/Thibodeau_Chandler_One_Of_Most_Underrated_Players_ In_NBA

I can do this all day!

put real gm were the stars are one word

You don't get it. You said he NEVER gets ANY recognition. Where are you other cases? What? THis is the only one? But I thought he NEVER gets recognition?

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 06:24 PM
No I am def a super big hoops fan. Watch as much ball as I can and to say that a man who hasn't played in about two years is over Chandler is just dumb and then to put Bynum who has no lateral quickness and got exposed by the Thunder and Mavs in back to back playoffs is even dumber. I mean to make that even worse the man isn't going to play at all this season are u kidding me. You are making an argument with players that aren't even playing. To top it off u a re putting guys these other guys over him please stop playing let's break these guys down a bit!

Perkins- Poor help defender lost a lots of laterally quickness after his acl injury.
Pekovic- Not even gonna go there because that is just funny. His Drtg last year was 107 which is worse then Chandlers worst year in his career including his rookie year!
Duncan- Once upon a time but come o now the man isn't the defensive player he once was!
Gasol- Is def a beast but much like Perkins lacks the athletic ability of a Chandler so isn't quiet the help defender that Chandler is advantage Chandler!
Asik- Is another great defender but lacks the leadership of a Chandler on D! I mean come on now tell me that Asik can go the Mavs and win a ring and then move to the Knicks and make one of the worse defensive teams one of the best come on now u know u don't really means this.
Noah- Another great defender this is probably the closest to a Chandler and a Howard! In my eyes he is the 3rd best defensive center in the league has all the tools of an elite defender but to me that ring and top level communication separates the 2!

So much like I said Chandler and Howard are in a league of there own right now

All opinions.

Yes Perkins and Pekovic are not as good help defenders as Chandler, but they are better low post defenders when guys are backing them down.

Duncan may not be what he used to be, but he's still in Chandlers ball park because of his position and knowledge of the game that allows him to always be in good defensive position.

Asik lacks leadership on D? There is no such thing. The only thing close to leadership on defense is being a defensive anchor, and Asik is a defensive anchor. Stop trying to make things up like defensive leadership to embellish Tyson Chandler. If you mean defensive anchor okay, but Asik is a defensive anchor.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 06:26 PM
And even with that he is still the best defensive Center . If u really look at it tho it's not really that he took a big step back tho it's that we are playing undersized and not having Shumpert to stop some of these top level athletic guards in the league is hurting him a bit. Once Shumpert comes back and he isn't trying to fill every defensive hole on our team he will look like his last year self!

Where is your justification for this? Why are you just blabbing words without backing them up?

Undersized? Please. Amare might be the worst defensive big man in the NBA don't try and tell me how having Melo instead of Amare at the 4 makes enough of a difference.

Shumpert is a great defender, but so is Ronnie Brewer. Don't act like you don't have an elite perimeter defender on your team.

LOL man I'm done with this. Peace

faze38
01-04-2013, 06:28 PM
Yes Brook Lopez is a bad rebounder. If you think rebounding is about height then you are sadly mistaken and must have never seen Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace play.

Brook Lopez is averaging 9 RPG per 36 playing next to two of the best rebound-per-minute players in Reggie Evans and Kris Humphries. Who does Tyson Chandler have? Melo? Amare?

Yes Tyson is a much better rebounder no question.

And yes I think Lopez is better than Tyson, but I never even brought that up in this thread why are you making things up.

Please really your gonna bring up some of greatest rebounders in NBA history as your defense to why height doesn't matter. Lopez has no excuse for being a poor rebounder because he isn't much of a help defender so he is in position to get those boards but is just awful at it! On top of that do me a favor and look at the top 25 leaders in rebounds and tell me that most of those guys aren't some of the larger players in there era except for maybe 2 or 3. Height isn't everything but is still important in rebounding

You made the case for Lopez taking the all-star spot which is basically making a comparison so u don't have to say it. As far as throwing Hump and Evans in there come on now are u serious everybody that is a true basketball fan knows that Brook is bad defender and rebounder.

faze38
01-04-2013, 06:50 PM
Where is your justification for this? Why are you just blabbing words without backing them up?

Undersized? Please. Amare might be the worst defensive big man in the NBA don't try and tell me how having Melo instead of Amare at the 4 makes enough of a difference.

Shumpert is a great defender, but so is Ronnie Brewer. Don't act like you don't have an elite perimeter defender on your team.

LOL man I'm done with this. Peace

Were is your justification for him not being the best defensive Center in the league! And yes Amare is a very poor defender but he def does a lot more as far as help goes then a 6'8" Melo don't believe just actually turn on your tv and watch. Melo's D rating this year is a 107 Amare was a 101 last year. So as poor of a defender as he is he brings more against players that are a bit to big for Melo and yes Brewer is a great defender but he's giving us about 19 minutes a game and has been playing quiet poorly lately so please ate least know what your talking about before responding. Shumpert had a 101 Drtg to Brewers 106 this year in case you were wondering so please at least do some research before your talk! As far as the leadership factor why don't you look up what the Mavs, Knicks and Chris Paul have said about the man when it comes to leading the defense and his communication. Just about all of them had said he directs every player on the floor on D so yes defensive leadership does exist. The man is like a true extension of his coaches on the floor when it comes to were u need to defend and how u defend.

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:03 PM
Here is a little more news for u my friend Chandler is so effective that he makes almost any team he goes to a good defensive team and you can see that with the teams defensive efficiency.

2012 Knicks 5th in defensive efficiency up from 21st
2011 Mavricks 7th up from 12th
2010 Bobcats 1st up from 7th
2009 Hornets 8th dropped to 22nd with out him

I mean come on now the effect is just self-explanatory!

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 07:04 PM
Didnt they switch to a 2 guard/3 forward format? Or am I making that up?

Anyway, probably Bosh, but it could easily be Monroe or Anderson V

It's not 3 forwards,it's three front court players.

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Where is your justification for this? Why are you just blabbing words without backing them up?

Undersized? Please. Amare might be the worst defensive big man in the NBA don't try and tell me how having Melo instead of Amare at the 4 makes enough of a difference.

Shumpert is a great defender, but so is Ronnie Brewer. Don't act like you don't have an elite perimeter defender on your team.

LOL man I'm done with this. Peace

Brewer had knee surgery in the off season.He hasn't been as good this season.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 07:15 PM
people cant call lopez a bad rebounder or bad defender anymore... hes average at both

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:20 PM
Brewer had knee surgery in the off season.He hasn't been as good this season.

Thank u

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:20 PM
people cant call lopez a bad rebounder or bad defender anymore... hes average at both

If u say so my man I still think he sucks but he is a best offensively!

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 07:23 PM
If u say so my man I still think he sucks but he is a best offensively!

go look at his numbers

his rebounding rate is better than a lot of players and is basically the same as noah and horford

can't really judge his defense by numbers but I can tell you he's come a LONG way this year with his PNR defense and his help defense... he used to be awful but now he's average IMO

I'm pretty sure the nets team defense numbers are clearly better with him on the floor if someone can find the splits

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 07:29 PM
Tyson has taken a step back defensively this year IMO

I think Tyson has been asked to do too much defensively this season.The best perimeter defender on the team is injured,and backup bigs have been injured.Coach Woodson started Camby with Chandler,and Tyson looked like a beast again.

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:32 PM
go look at his numbers

his rebounding rate is better than a lot of players and is basically the same as noah and horford

can't really judge his defense by numbers but I can tell you he's come a LONG way this year with his PNR defense and his help defense... he used to be awful but now he's average IMO

I'm pretty sure the nets team defense numbers are clearly better with him on the floor if someone can find the splits

His rate may be better but the man is only getting 7 a night that's pretty crappy for a center! I will say his D has improved but he is still a below avg defender. He's getting pretty sick at weak side blocks tho. I'm not a Brook Lopez hater I just think he has way to many holes in his game to be an all-star. Chandler's worse part of his game is his O and he's still putting up double figures. I will say this tho if I don't have Chandler in the all-star game I want Noah. In my opinion they both deserve to be in! As well as Bosh!

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 07:32 PM
I think Tyson has been asked to do too much defensively this season.The best perimeter defender on the team is injured,and backup bigs have been injured.Coach Woodson started Camby with Chandler,and Tyson looked like a beast again.

If Tyson Chandler is really in a league of his own though, he should be able to anchor a defense, even if Felton and Kidd are his guards.

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 07:32 PM
All opinions.

Yes Perkins and Pekovic are not as good help defenders as Chandler, but they are better low post defenders when guys are backing them down.

Duncan may not be what he used to be, but he's still in Chandlers ball park because of his position and knowledge of the game that allows him to always be in good defensive position.

Asik lacks leadership on D? There is no such thing. The only thing close to leadership on defense is being a defensive anchor, and Asik is a defensive anchor. Stop trying to make things up like defensive leadership to embellish Tyson Chandler. If you mean defensive anchor okay, but Asik is a defensive anchor.

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Defense is all about communication, its all about talking it up, letting guys know what is happening behind them. Listen to Noah, listen to Chandler, these guys are talking non stop, letting guys know when screens are coming, when to switch, when hes got the help, when they are in the wrong spot.

A defensive anchor is like a MLB in football, they quarterback the defense and when your under the rim, you see all the action, guys guarding the perimeter have no idea what is going on behind them, guys like Chandler make sure they know.

Thats how you lead on D.

But seriously, the bold speaks volume about your knowledge of basketball or experience playing the game.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 07:34 PM
go look at his numbers

his rebounding rate is better than a lot of players and is basically the same as noah and horford

can't really judge his defense by numbers but I can tell you he's come a LONG way this year with his PNR defense and his help defense... he used to be awful but now he's average IMO

I'm pretty sure the nets team defense numbers are clearly better with him on the floor if someone can find the splits

Don't bother with him. To him Tyson Chandler is in a league of his own. I wonder what he thought of pre-2012 Melo. He probably thought Melo was the best SF in the NBA, and just like Tyson in a league of his own.

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 07:34 PM
Asik is a great defensive player, but nowhere near the communicator that guys like Tyson, Garnett and Noah are. Thats huge for a team, especially a young team like the Rockets.

You can't be a legitimate 'anchor' or 'quarterback' of a defense if your dead silent the whole time. But Asik is a tremendous defender, no denying that.

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:34 PM
I think Tyson has been asked to do too much defensively this season.The best perimeter defender on the team is injured,and backup bigs have been injured.Coach Woodson started Camby with Chandler,and Tyson looked like a beast again.

Now this is dead on. People don't realize how tough it is to make up for an undersized PF because u have to send a double and it puts Chandler in bad positions.

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 07:37 PM
jmoney85 your sig is meant to imply contradictory statements from Knicks fans,but those aren't contradictions at all.

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:37 PM
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Defense is all about communication, its all about talking it up, letting guys know what is happening behind them. Listen to Noah, listen to Chandler, these guys are talking non stop, letting guys know when screens are coming, when to switch, when hes got the help, when they are in the wrong spot.

A defensive anchor is like a MLB in football, they quarterback the defense and when your under the rim, you see all the action, guys guarding the perimeter have no idea what is going on behind them, guys like Chandler make sure they know.

Thats how you lead on D.

But seriously, the bold speaks volume about your knowledge of basketball or experience playing the game.

Thank u somebody with actual knowledge about basketball! Now these are guys I can debate with not that I need to because u obviously see and hear what I do!

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 07:39 PM
There is a reason pretty much everyone who has played with Tyson says hes the best teammate they have ever played with and coaches rave about him, even his Team USA guys rave about him, and Kobe told Dwight he wants him to be 'his Tyson Chandler'.

Guys who play with him understand his value, don't expect a bunch of dudes who never played the game who say there is no such thing as leadership on D to understand it.

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 07:40 PM
And to say Perkins is better post defender than Tyson is a joke. Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up off the dribble. The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat our perimeter D or jump shooting bigs.

Did you guys miss what he did to Dwight and Bynum last year?

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:44 PM
And to say Perkins is better post defender than Tyson is a joke. Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up off the dribble. The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat our perimeter D or jump shooting bigs.

Did you guys miss what he did to Dwight and Bynum last year?

Thank u again! I will give Perk his due pre acl tear but he hasn't been the same for some time now!

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 07:47 PM
all of the points being made for chandler are correct and he has a big impact on team defense but I still cant see that as being all-star caliber

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 07:48 PM
Now this is dead on. People don't realize how tough it is to make up for an undersized PF because u have to send a double and it puts Chandler in bad positions.

He also had to be more concerned with his foul situation.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 07:48 PM
And to say Perkins is better post defender than Tyson is a joke. Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up off the dribble. The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat our perimeter D or jump shooting bigs.

Did you guys miss what he did to Dwight and Bynum last year?

this

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 07:52 PM
all of the points being made for chandler are correct and he has a big impact on team defense but I still cant see that as being all-star caliber

Maybe not,but he can make a case.Out of Chandler,Noah,and Varejao someone will get snubbed.It happens every season.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 07:53 PM
Maybe not,but he can make a case.Out of Chandler,Noah,and Varejao someone will get snubbed.It happens every season.

yea because fan vote is awful


you can make a case for about 5 centers that will be snubbed

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:53 PM
all of the points being made for chandler are correct and he has a big impact on team defense but I still cant see that as being all-star caliber

I mean that's tough right there the man is putting up double double avgs and brings all that D to the table to me that an all-star. Yes numbers are flashy and easy to see but a guy like Chandler is an all-star he is doing everything his team needs to win and more! What else in your eyes would he need to be an all-star?

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 07:54 PM
Asik is a great defensive player, but nowhere near the communicator that guys like Tyson, Garnett and Noah are. Thats huge for a team, especially a young team like the Rockets.

You can't be a legitimate 'anchor' or 'quarterback' of a defense if your dead silent the whole time. But Asik is a tremendous defender, no denying that.

I never disagreed with that.

Just cause you can't hear Asik's voice doesn't mean he's silent. To think that NBA players keep their mouths shut the entire game is ridiculous.

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:55 PM
Maybe not,but he can make a case.Out of Chandler,Noah,and Varejao someone will get snubbed.It happens every season.

agree and to me the man has to be Varejao his team is not winning and he has the lowest Per of the 3 players!

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 08:01 PM
And to say Perkins is better post defender than Tyson is a joke. Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up off the dribble. The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat our perimeter D or jump shooting bigs.

Did you guys miss what he did to Dwight and Bynum last year?

Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up? The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat ur perimeter defense?

Not all of these are on Tyson but you can see the ones that are.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brook+lopez+vs+knicks&oq=brook+lopez+vs+knicks&gs_l=youtube.3..0.3206.5373.0.5492.21.18.0.2.2.1.1 47.2118.2j16.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.FoDPJqIFw2Y

You will probably say something like "It's 1 game", even though you said nobody scores on Tyson except for guards that blow by Felton and Kidd, so here's a look at their head to head matchups.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lopezbr01&p2=chandty01

Well I'll be damned if nobody scores on Tyson, Brook Lopez must be one special player huh.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 08:03 PM
this

That's not a slight to Tyson.

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Defense is all about communication, its all about talking it up, letting guys know what is happening behind them. Listen to Noah, listen to Chandler, these guys are talking non stop, letting guys know when screens are coming, when to switch, when hes got the help, when they are in the wrong spot.

A defensive anchor is like a MLB in football, they quarterback the defense and when your under the rim, you see all the action, guys guarding the perimeter have no idea what is going on behind them, guys like Chandler make sure they know.

Thats how you lead on D.

But seriously, the bold speaks volume about your knowledge of basketball or experience playing the game.

You seemed to have missed my point, it flew right over your head.

I said there's no such thing as defensive leadership, unless you're talking about anchoring a defense.

Do you think every Center in the NBA that isn't Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, or KG doesn't communicate with their defense? Every Center, every basketball player talks to their team.

Tysons_Beard
01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
i think tyson takes a reserve slot

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 08:07 PM
i think tyson takes a reserve slot

I can see that. There's tons of Knicks fans and a lot of people know who Tyson Chandler is.

I'm not takin a shot at him or anything, but AS voting is all about popularity.

faze38
01-04-2013, 08:09 PM
Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up? The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat ur perimeter defense?

Not all of these are on Tyson but you can see the ones that are.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brook+lopez+vs+knicks&oq=brook+lopez+vs+knicks&gs_l=youtube.3..0.3206.5373.0.5492.21.18.0.2.2.1.1 47.2118.2j16.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.FoDPJqIFw2Y

You will probably say something like "It's 1 game", even though you said nobody scores on Tyson except for guards that blow by Felton and Kidd, so here's a look at their head to head matchups.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lopezbr01&p2=chandty01

Well I'll be damned if nobody scores on Tyson, Brook Lopez must be one special player huh.

You should really look at those numbers Lopez was def killing him early in his career but now 22 pts on 20 shot 16 on 18 shots come on now not really impressive. I mean the numbers u put up are even screaming Chandler over Lopez for All-star!

krisxsong
01-04-2013, 08:14 PM
You should really look at those numbers Lopez was def killing him early in his career but now 22 pts on 20 shot 16 on 18 shots come on now not really impressive. I mean the numbers u put up are even screaming Chandler over Lopez for All-star!

But I remember it was your or lethal that said Chandler was always a crazy defensive presence on whatever team he was. Now you're saying he used to be bad?

faze38
01-04-2013, 08:15 PM
You also need better highlights just watched them and saw all of his baskets except for 1 coming of great passes. He scored 1 basket 1 on 1 against Chandler!

allSUAVE
01-04-2013, 08:21 PM
Rajon Rondo
Dwyane Wade
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Joakim NOAH > Anderson V > Tyson chandler > Brook Lopez

faze38
01-04-2013, 08:22 PM
But I remember it was your or lethal that said Chandler was always a crazy defensive presence on whatever team he was. Now you're saying he used to be bad?

He's team defensive improvment speaks for it self but that doesn't mean great defensive players can't get beat at times. Lopez was one of the only players the use to be able to go one on one and do well against him but not anymore! I mean Mutombo got beasted by Robinson but nobody in their right mind would say Mutombo wasn't a defensive monster!

Beltrans Mole
01-04-2013, 08:25 PM
Can't go wrong with Noah or Chandler...both guys play so hard.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 08:29 PM
I mean that's tough right there the man is putting up double double avgs and brings all that D to the table to me that an all-star. Yes numbers are flashy and easy to see but a guy like Chandler is an all-star he is doing everything his team needs to win and more! What else in your eyes would he need to be an all-star?

be able to take over games and be a go to guy when your team needs it

he has literally no offensive game and you will see his points creep even lower with felton on the shelf because of those PNR dunks he would get every game

Beltrans Mole
01-04-2013, 08:35 PM
be able to take over games and be a go to guy when your team needs it

he has literally no offensive game and you will see his points creep even lower with felton on the shelf because of those PNR dunks he would get every game

So you'd rather have Brook "Mr. Soft" Lopez than Chandler...okay have him.

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 08:39 PM
I never disagreed with that.

Just cause you can't hear Asik's voice doesn't mean he's silent. To think that NBA players keep their mouths shut the entire game is ridiculous.

Honest question: Does Asik even speak fluent English at all?


Nobody scores on Tyson 1 on 1 in the post or facing up? The guys that score on him are the little guys who beat ur perimeter defense?

Not all of these are on Tyson but you can see the ones that are.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brook+lopez+vs+knicks&oq=brook+lopez+vs+knicks&gs_l=youtube.3..0.3206.5373.0.5492.21.18.0.2.2.1.1 47.2118.2j16.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.FoDPJqIFw2Y

You will probably say something like "It's 1 game", even though you said nobody scores on Tyson except for guards that blow by Felton and Kidd, so here's a look at their head to head matchups.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lopezbr01&p2=chandty01

Well I'll be damned if nobody scores on Tyson, Brook Lopez must be one special player huh.

Obviously when I said nobody scores on him it wasn't meant to be taken literally. Tyson is used to help non stop, it leaves his man wide open for dump off passes. Brook having a big game doesn't mean he was matched up 1 on 1 vs Tyson every time he scored.

And I said Tyson struggles against jump shooting bigs.


You seemed to have missed my point, it flew right over your head.

I said there's no such thing as defensive leadership, unless you're talking about anchoring a defense.

Do you think every Center in the NBA that isn't Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, or KG doesn't communicate with their defense? Every Center, every basketball player talks to their team.

What do you consider leadership?

'talking to their team' does not equal quarterbacking a defense and constantly communicating. Our defense fell off a cliff when Sheed went out and we didn't have that loud *** screaming out directions on every defensive possession from the bench and court.

You think Brook Lopez quarterbacks on D? Shouts out directions? Gimme a break dude.

'No such thing as leadership on defense' :facepalm:

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 08:41 PM
Look at the great anchors we have had in this league as of late, Duncan is probably the only guy who isn't a complete loudmouth out there on the court, constantly flapping and shouting directions. It keeps everyone in tune. Its not 'talking to your team'.

And you actually have to be a very smart defender to guard your man, help on guard penetration and let everyone else know where to be. Its not something 'every player in the NBA' does or can do.

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 08:43 PM
Brook Lopez ain't respected around the league like Tyson Chandler is. Hes a glorified Eddy Curry. I'll take a big who scores 0 points but anchors a D over a guy who puts up 20-6 and can't guard a fly.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 08:50 PM
Brook Lopez ain't respected around the league like Tyson Chandler is. Hes a glorified Eddy Curry. I'll take a big who scores 0 points but anchors a D over a guy who puts up 20-6 and can't guard a fly.

can't guard a fly?

he's not as good defensively as chandler but thats an ignorant comment

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 08:52 PM
and chandler anchors a defense that is in the bottom half of the league... I can see your argument if they were top 5 or even top 10 in defense

faze38
01-04-2013, 08:53 PM
be able to take over games and be a go to guy when your team needs it

he has literally no offensive game and you will see his points creep even lower with felton on the shelf because of those PNR dunks he would get every game

Dwight has never been a got to guy when his team needed it and when healthy he is unquestionably the best center in the league. Chandler does take over games but it's not with points it's with lock down defense. That in it self is a skill. I mean people act like there is only one side of the ball. When it's crunch time Chandler just about makes sure that your gonna have to take a perimeter shot to win. On top of that if your go to guy is a big man good luck with that because he has one of the best defenders in the league on him. This year the man has also added a bunch of 20 point games and ask Net fans how they felt when AO after AO was thrown his way to take over a game and put the nail in the coffin.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 09:00 PM
Dwight has never been a got to guy when his team needed it and when healthy he is unquestionably the best center in the league. Chandler does take over games but it's not with points it's with lock down defense. That in it self is a skill. I mean people act like there is only one side of the ball. When it's crunch time Chandler just about makes sure that your gonna have to take a perimeter shot to win. On top of that if your go to guy is a big man good luck with that because he has one of the best defenders in the league on him. This year the man has also added a bunch of 20 point games and ask Net fans how they felt when AO after AO was thrown his way to take over a game and put the nail in the coffin.

I think other fans view chandler differently then knick fans... I have never thought of chandler as a great player... he does not scare me as a fan when he is in the game

is he a good defender? yes, but he is not this defensive god that some fans make him out to be

faze38
01-04-2013, 09:56 PM
I think other fans view chandler differently then knick fans... I have never thought of chandler as a great player... he does not scare me as a fan when he is in the game

is he a good defender? yes, but he is not this defensive god that some fans make him out to be

I don't know why I mean i've always thought he was a great defensive player. I mean he was animal in NO when he was playing with Chris Paul the man was part of a western conference finals team and when healthy helped anchor the best defensive team in the league in Charlotte I mean what else does he have to prove. That's exactly why I say he is underrated. Is he gonna drop 40 on your head most likely not but is he gonna take your best offensive post player out the game and make it tough for any player to score in the paint of course. On top of that now he's gonna give u a double double. I mean at one point he was not a threat on offense but now he is a pick and roll threat and a lock down defender so what else do you want from him!

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 09:58 PM
I don't know why I mean i've always thought he was a great defensive player. I mean he was animal in NO when he was playing with Chris Paul the man was part of a western conference finals team and when healthy helped anchor the best defensive team in the league in Charlotte I mean what else does he have to prove. That's exactly why I say he is underrated. Is he gonna drop 40 on your head most likely not but is he gonna take your best offensive post player out the game and make it tough for any player to score in the paint of course. On top of that now he's gonna give u a double double. I mean at one point he was not a threat on offense but now he is a pick and roll threat and a lock down defender so what else do you want from him!

but with this analogy tony allen should be an all-star

faze38
01-04-2013, 10:03 PM
but with this analogy tony allen should be an all-star

Not really because tony allen has deep competiton to go thru. I mean we have some of the greatest perimeter players in NBA history playing right now that can do it on both ends of the floor. The NBA is weak at the big man position right now and there is no denying that. On top of that the center position has the largest effect on a defense out of any position in the league so comparing a defensive contribution from a guard and a center is like comparing apples to oranges.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 10:07 PM
Not really because tony allen has deep competiton to go thru. I mean we have some of the greatest perimeter players in NBA history playing right now that can do it on both ends of the floor. The NBA is weak at the big man position right now and there is no denying that. On top of that the center position has the largest effect on a defense out of any position in the league so comparing a defensive contribution from a guard and a center is like comparing apples to oranges.

the nba isn't weak at center... I dont know why people think that... we could have 3-4 good centers in the east that are snubbed from the game

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 10:12 PM
I think the center position is deeper than SG in the east

faze38
01-04-2013, 10:15 PM
the nba isn't weak at center... I dont know why people think that... we could have 3-4 good centers in the east that are snubbed from the game

No it really is 3-4 good centers snubbed I mean come on now how good are u if your team is getting killed on a nightly basis. There are maybe 3 good centers in east the rest are PFs playing the 5 and even most of those guys are twiners!

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 10:24 PM
No it really is 3-4 good centers snubbed I mean come on now how good are u if your team is getting killed on a nightly basis. There are maybe 3 good centers in east the rest are PFs playing the 5 and even most of those guys are twiners!

see I hate this.... just because a team gets killed shouldn't diminish a players ability... teams are much bigger than 1 player

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 10:29 PM
The man went on a rant.. Don't bother responding to DLeethal. It is a waste of time..

sventhedog
01-04-2013, 10:36 PM
it's probably time to allow allstar teams to make a trade. lol.

faze38
01-05-2013, 12:59 AM
see I hate this.... just because a team gets killed shouldn't diminish a players ability... teams are much bigger than 1 player

Yes your right teams are much bigger then one player but most of the time being on a bad team tends to inflate the stats of some players like an Anderson Verijo who's raw numbers are high but his PER is under 20 but most people are including in all star talk. I mean the other thing that you seem to be excluding is the effect on a team a player has Tyson on the Mavs was a championship squad when they let him go they got crushed in the first round. If u take Tyson off the Knicks this year I think we are probably a .500 team. I mean Tyson's effect on a team is remarkable and if u don't take winning into effect then the best player from every team should be all-star rather then the best players from the best teams. Winning is what it's all about and Tyson Chandler is a major part of the Knicks having the second best record in the East so to me it's clear cut and dry. If he is towards the top in PER for centers and his team is winning how can u deny him an all star spot.

ackar
01-05-2013, 01:15 AM
Noah !

PapelbonLester
01-05-2013, 01:57 AM
I think the center position is deeper than SG in the east

oh in the east? so who are all the great SG in the WEST? James Harden, Kobe Bryant, then who JAMAL CRAWFORD? We got Wade,Ellis,Jr Smith,Joe Johnson, Paul George, Demar Derozan (top 20 in scoring if u didnt know who he was)

jmoney85
01-05-2013, 02:48 AM
Yes your right teams are much bigger then one player but most of the time being on a bad team tends to inflate the stats of some players like an Anderson Verijo who's raw numbers are high but his PER is under 20 but most people are including in all star talk. I mean the other thing that you seem to be excluding is the effect on a team a player has Tyson on the Mavs was a championship squad when they let him go they got crushed in the first round. If u take Tyson off the Knicks this year I think we are probably a .500 team. I mean Tyson's effect on a team is remarkable and if u don't take winning into effect then the best player from every team should be all-star rather then the best players from the best teams. Winning is what it's all about and Tyson Chandler is a major part of the Knicks having the second best record in the East so to me it's clear cut and dry. If he is towards the top in PER for centers and his team is winning how can u deny him an all star spot.

what are you taking away with tyson that would make them a .500 team?

defense?... they rank 17th in defense

and in regards to the mavs... they didn't think that high of him if they let him walk right after the championship

and lets not forget that he was traded by the hornets for joe smith and chris wilcox (trade recinded based on a failed physical) and was a borderline waiver player just a little over 2 years ago... now all of a sudden he's some hot player?... I think this is another case of NYK fans blowing a player up just like they did with lin last season

jmoney85
01-05-2013, 02:49 AM
oh in the east? so who are all the great SG in the WEST? James Harden, Kobe Bryant, then who JAMAL CRAWFORD? We got Wade,Ellis,Jr Smith,Joe Johnson, Paul George, Demar Derozan (top 20 in scoring if u didnt know who he was)

I wasn't comparing east and west... I just said east because we are talking about the east all-star team

faze38
01-05-2013, 02:57 AM
what are you taking away with tyson that would make them a .500 team?

defense?... they rank 17th in defense

Yes defense do you watch knick games are defense is awful without him. I mean u can try and take that from him if you want but your kidding yourself. On top of that how about his 10 boards a game for a team that struggles to rebound I mean come on now. Yes Chandler is important to this team very important. He's probably more important to his then any Center in the east not named Noah.

jmoney85
01-05-2013, 02:58 AM
Yes defense do you watch knick games are defense is awful without him. I mean u can try and take that from him if you want but your kidding yourself. On top of that how about his 10 boards a game for a team that struggles to rebound I mean come on now. Yes Chandler is important to this team very important. He's probably more important to his then any Center in the east not named Noah.

I edited my post if you would like to add

faze38
01-05-2013, 03:03 AM
what are you taking away with tyson that would make them a .500 team?

defense?... they rank 17th in defense

and in regards to the mavs... they didn't think that high of him if they let him walk right after the championship

and lets not forget that he was traded by the hornets for joe smith and chris wilcox (trade recinded based on a failed physical) and was a borderline waiver player just a little over 2 years ago... now all of a sudden he's some hot player?... I think this is another case of NYK fans blowing a player up just like they did with lin last season

No the Mavs wanted to take a shot at Dwight and it didn't work out. The funny thing is the smartest basketball mind in that organization followed Chandler to NY. I mean yes a lot of gms and front office people gave up on him but why don't you check what the players that have played with him say about him! On top of that it's funny how every team he played for fell a defensive efficiency after he left. I mean since u want to just throw the man under the bus name better Centers then him and then compare them in PER or see how they faired against him!

faze38
01-05-2013, 03:06 AM
You talk about dominate centers but they don't exist anymore!