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View Full Version : Is Brook Lopez earning his name back?



Stuckey#3
11-26-2012, 11:25 PM
Just watched the NYK BKN game and Brook is dominating. I think he is playing his *** off to prove that he is a top five center in the league. I am in no way shape or form a Nets fan... Pistons through and through. But I have been impressed by this guy so far this season.

After he was injured he became somewhat of an after thought in the league and received a lot of criticism regarding his rebounding %. When you play as good as he is right now you don't need to rebound.

Do you think he has redeemed his status?

Sactown
11-26-2012, 11:27 PM
You always have to rebound, but the GM did a good job of adding pieces to mask his poor rebounding with reggie evans and Crash.

ee
11-26-2012, 11:29 PM
Just watched the NYK BKN game and Brook is dominating. I think he is playing his *** off to prove that he is a top five center in the league. I am in no way shape of form a Nets fan... Pistons through and through. But I have been impressed by this guys so far this season.

After he was injured he became somewhat of an after thought in the league and received a lot of criticism regarding his rebounding %. When you play as good as he is right now you don't need to rebound.

Do you think he has redeemed his status?

He was supposed to break out 2 seasons ago but mono and injuries got in the way.... Not really surprised...

Robbw241
11-26-2012, 11:29 PM
I don't think any option is 100% true, but B is closest. He's between 9-12 in terms of centers.

Patrick Ewing33
11-26-2012, 11:34 PM
I told my brother this.. If Lopez had the effort on rebounds and defense like Evans does he would be the best center in the league.

ee
11-26-2012, 11:36 PM
Dmf already made lopez a public enemy no. 1 here so i don't see anything good come out from this thread....

SteBO
11-26-2012, 11:36 PM
He had 11 rebounds tonight. This is what he needs to do on a more consistent basis.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2012, 11:56 PM
on the flipside he let Chandler go for 28...

305 till I die
11-27-2012, 12:10 AM
He is leading his team to victories he is easily top 5 right now.

Max.This
11-27-2012, 12:16 AM
D will gave him a lot of good looks. He didn't have many shots where he created for himself. Give a guy 15 layups from a foot away and I guarantee those stats can be achieved by many centers. If you watched the game Lopez had maybe a jumper and a hook but the rest was given by superb passing from deron

ee
11-27-2012, 12:30 AM
D will gave him a lot of good looks. He didn't have many shots where he created for himself. Give a guy 15 layups from a foot away and I guarantee those stats can be achieved by many centers. If you watched the game Lopez had maybe a jumper and a hook but the rest was given by superb passing from deron

watch every game.....brook is known as a scorer.....I don't really think we're talking about his offensive game here.....

Avenged
11-27-2012, 12:44 AM
"When you play as good as he is right now you don't need to rebound"??? seriously???

the lack of rebounds is what's holding him back. Averaging 6 rebounds for a 7 ft'er is unacceptable. He is a great offensive player though, and is leading Brooklyn but just because he's playing great offensively doesn't mean he doesn't need to rebound.

Also, not sure what you mean by him redeeming his status? It's not like he was considered a top center and then suddenly everyone thought low of him.. He just so happened to go through an injury.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 12:50 AM
Brook had 11 rebs and 5 blocks tonight!!. He looked like the real defensive MVP tonight. An before people look at the box score and say Chandler killed him thats the reason HUMP was benched the entire 2nd half!!

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-27-2012, 01:40 AM
gotta continue his defensive effort throughout the season and no doubt he would be in the higher end of top 5 center in the league!

really impressed with his play.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-27-2012, 01:41 AM
Brook had 11 rebs and 5 blocks tonight!!. He looked like the real defensive MVP tonight. An before people look at the box score and say Chandler killed him thats the reason HUMP was benched the entire 2nd half!!

i think you mean Kardashian :P

*insert kardashian joke here*

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 01:41 AM
on the flipside he let Chandler go for 28...

Umm... this

Check out the FG%

I keep saying this. The Nets do a good job masking Lopez defensively and pretty much carry him on that end. He blocks shots with his length but is otherwise too slow and clumsy to be effective.

I do not know how many opposing bigs have to have career nights against him and the rest of our bigs before Nets fans admit that the guy is not good defensively

LA_Raiders
11-27-2012, 02:19 AM
Top 10

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 02:21 AM
on the flipside he let Chandler go for 28...

Umm... this

Check out the FG%

I keep saying this. The Nets do a good job masking Lopez defensively and pretty much carry him on that end. He blocks shots with his length but is otherwise too slow and clumsy to be effective.

I do not know how many opposing bigs have to have career nights against him and the rest of our bigs before Nets fans admit that the guy is not good defensively

Oh so thats why hump was benched....

Oldmantrash
11-27-2012, 02:24 AM
It's not like Chandler beat him one on one all night, Lopez job in the defense is to challenge shots. He was scoring mostly on second chances, because Lopez real issue is rebounding, he just doesn't go hard enough after them.
His defense is fine, his rebounding is awful.

We need Lopez offense badly, we don't have a Melo type scorer or an offensive power forward to compensate for an only defensive center like some Net fans want.

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 02:25 AM
Oh so thats why hump was benched....

Hump is trash bro. I do not take blame from anyone but Hump was not covering 7'1 Chandler for most of the night and neither was Blatche. It was mostly Brook. that said all our bigs are bad defensivey

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 02:27 AM
Im starting to realize why Blatche was tossed like trash in Was.

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 02:30 AM
It's not like Chandler beat him one on one all night, Lopez job in the defense is to challenge shots. He was scoring mostly on second chances, because Lopez real issue is rebounding, he just doesn't go hard enough after them.
His defense is fine, his rebounding is awful.

We need Lopez offense badly, we don't have a Melo type scorer or an offensive power forward to compensate for an only defensive center like some Net fans want.

I can agree with this somewhat. Lopez offense at this point is becoming one of our go to offensive weapons. We need that and have grown to rely on it.

However it does not mean the Nets can excuse his poor defense. Not if they wanna win more than a few round in the playoffs at best.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 02:31 AM
I can agree with this somewhat. Lopez offense at this point is becoming one of our go to offensive weapons. We need that and have grown to rely on it.

However it does not mean the Nets can excuse his poor defense. Not if they wanna win more than a few round in the playoffs at best.

A fews round in the playoffs is pretty good.

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 02:32 AM
Im starting to realize why Blatche was tossed like trash in Was.

Pretty much.. when he held the ball for 9 seconds and did his jab step thing only to air ball a J... my blood boiled.

Avery responded by benching him which i liked. Avery gets a lot of criticism and it's deserved a lot but he has these guys playing hard every night and not bottom of the league defensively which in itself is impressive considering they have no bigs that play good D

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 02:32 AM
A fews round in the playoffs is pretty good.

Not. To. me.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 02:38 AM
on the flipside he let Chandler go for 28...

This is a clear case of somebody not watching the game and simply throwing around assumptions.

Did you see how Tyson Chandler scored all those points? ALL of them were on put backs and cuts to the hoop.

MOST of them happened when Lopez left Chandler to help his teammate(who was beat) and that's the correct thing to do. The problem was his teammate didn't rotate over to Tyson leading to wide open put backs.

Lopez is no defensive center but nobody is so bad on D that they would give up 28 to Tyson. NONE of Tyson's points came on a post up or face up.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 02:39 AM
I'm bewildered that people still think there are 10 better centers than this guy.

There isn't one in the NBA outside of Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum, and of course Bynum isn't coming back.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 02:42 AM
I'm bewildered that people still think there are 10 better centers than this guy.

There isn't one in the NBA outside of Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum, and of course Bynum isn't coming back.

Marc Gasol is obviously better. Tyson Chandler is obviously better.


Bogut is coming back and he is obviously better when healthy.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 02:47 AM
I'm bewildered that people still think there are 10 better centers than this guy.

There isn't one in the NBA outside of Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum, and of course Bynum isn't coming back.

Marc Gasol is obviously better. Tyson Chandler is obviously better.


Bogut is coming back and he is obviously better when healthy.

How is chandler obviously better? He can only score on wide open dunks and even knicks fans admit his defense has slipped

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 02:49 AM
on the flipside he let Chandler go for 28...

This is a clear case of somebody not watching the game and simply throwing around assumptions.

Did you see how Tyson Chandler scored all those points? ALL of them were on put backs and cuts to the hoop.

MOST of them happened when Lopez left Chandler to help his teammate(who was beat) and that's the correct thing to do. The problem was his teammate didn't rotate over to Tyson leading to wide open put backs.

Lopez is no defensive center but nobody is so bad on D that they would give up 28 to Tyson. NONE of Tyson's points came on a post up or face up.

This X10000. Chandlers points almost all came on uncontested dunks. His post game is still a joke.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 02:50 AM
How is chandler obviously better? He can only score on wide open dunks and even knicks fans admit his defense has slipped

Tell me when Lopez learns to rebound or play any defense.

thrice4
11-27-2012, 02:54 AM
No one plays to try to be a top 5 at any position. Everyone wants to play to be the best.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 02:57 AM
How is chandler obviously better? He can only score on wide open dunks and even knicks fans admit his defense has slipped

Tell me when Lopez learns to rebound or play any defense.

He out rebounded and played better D than Chandler today so im letting ya know

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 03:01 AM
He out rebounded and played better D than Chandler today so im letting ya know

Tyson's TRB is 17.2

Lopez's 12.3

Tyson's points per 100 possession given up is 101.

Lopez's is 109.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 03:15 AM
He out rebounded and played better D than Chandler today so im letting ya know

Tyson's TRB is 17.2

Lopez's 12.3

Tyson's points per 100 possession given up is 101.

Lopez's is 109.

You said when. Today was that day. 11 rebs, 5 blks

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 03:17 AM
I am glad you think he is better than Chandler, but you are pretty wrong.

If you think Lopez is better at rebounding than Chandler because of this game, Chandler is the ultimate offensive force, can't be stopped.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 03:37 AM
I am glad you think he is better than Chandler, but you are pretty wrong.

If you think Lopez is better at rebounding than Chandler because of this game, Chandler is the ultimate offensive force, can't be stopped.

Ok

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 03:59 AM
Marc Gasol is obviously better. Tyson Chandler is obviously better.


Bogut is coming back and he is obviously better when healthy.

LOL Marc Gasol!?

Marc Gasol is a worse rebounder, far less efficient from the field, a far inferior shot blocker, and not nearly the scorer Lopez is....but yeah Gasol is OBVIOUSLY better.

Tyson Chandler? Ummmm no, especially not obviously. People say "Talk to me when Brook plays D" Well what I say to you is "Talk to me when Tyson learns to play offense".

Brook Lopez is a decent defender, Tyson Chandler is a black hole on offense. If that guy isn't getting offensive putbacks, he's a worthless bum on offense. Granted he's a beast around the rim but he can't do anything on that end.

Andrew Bogut is an interesting one and I MIGHT give you that one. I believe he is the best low post defensive big man in the NBA. His offense is nothing more than average, but his defense and rebounding are superb...problem with that guy is he's never healthy, never played a full season.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 04:01 AM
Tell me when Lopez learns to rebound or play any defense.

Brook Lopez averages 2.5 blocks per game, 3.0 per 36. That's some defense.

Tell me when Tyson Chandler learns to play offense.

See this is my problem with you guys. How can you sit there with a straight face and say Lopez isn't a top Center because he can't rebound but then you say Marc Gasol is better than him?

ee
11-27-2012, 04:04 AM
LOL Marc Gasol!?

Brook Lopez is a decent defender, Tyson Chandler is a black hole on offense. If that guy isn't getting offensive putbacks, he's a worthless bum on offense. Granted he's a beast around the rim but he can't do anything on that end.

dude where have you been man? if Chandler is a black hole on offense, Lopez is a black hole on PSD coz some posters couldn't just let his game do the talking.....

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 04:08 AM
dude where have you been man? if Chandler is a black hole on offense, Lopez is a black hole on PSD coz some posters couldn't just let his game do the talking.....

been busy, but I'm back.

You know what though, I can't totally fault PSD posters. PSD posters most likely have never seen Lopez play outside of nationally televised Nets games and there's been 1 in the last like 4 years(not including this season).

They see and hear about how great Tyson is on defense, they forget how bad he is on offense.

One thing that does really bother me though is that people are reluctant to mention Brook as a top center because they say "Basketball is a two way sport", yet they' throw Tyson in there like he's a force to be reckoned with.

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 04:09 AM
dude where have you been man? if Chandler is a black hole on offense, Lopez is a black hole on PSD coz some posters couldn't just let his game do the talking.....

Ummm :confused:

After many different inflections on different words i still do not understand what you are trying to say here.

Whomewhome
11-27-2012, 04:16 AM
I am a Nets fan through and through. I would be lying if I said I didn't want Dwight. But part of me is glad we didn't give up on Brook. I know his rebounding is suspect but before the Mono and the injuries, his defense was very underrated and I am just glad he is proving it this year. He is 1st in blocks to foul ratio.. out of the top 5 blocker.. That is huge. He is currently 4 in the league in blocks. Very impressed. If he can get 8-10 boards a game I will take it any day..

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 04:18 AM
I am a Nets fan through and through. I would be lying if I said I didn't want Dwight. But part of me is glad we didn't give up on Brook. I know his rebounding is suspect but before the Mono and the injuries, his defense was very underrated and I am just glad he is proving it this year. He is 1st in blocks to foul ratio.. out of the top 5 blocker.. That is huge. He is currently 4 in the league in blocks. Very impressed. If he can get 8-10 boards a game I will take it any day..

And how many of the 3 ahead of him are getting 30 mpg? Brook is doing this with only 30 mpg.

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 04:24 AM
I am a Nets fan through and through. I would be lying if I said I didn't want Dwight. But part of me is glad we didn't give up on Brook. I know his rebounding is suspect but before the Mono and the injuries, his defense was very underrated and I am just glad he is proving it this year. He is 1st in blocks to foul ratio.. out of the top 5 blocker.. That is huge. He is currently 4 in the league in blocks. Very impressed. If he can get 8-10 boards a game I will take it any day..

Every day i agree more and more. Not because i think Brook is as good as Dwight because they are not even in the same stratosphere; but because Brook Lopez is a guy i can root for. While i would cheer for Dwight if he were on my team i would never feel connected to him like i do to Brook.

It's sort or ironic that Dwight tries so hard to be this lovable likable guy and it comes off as fake at times while Lopez (the guy the Nets wanted to trade for Dwight) is legitimately a nerd at heart and hard to dislike. Brook studied creative writing at Stanford because he likes to write comic books. He likes Superman, Harry Potter and Star Wars. He loves Disney more than kids and is at ComiCon like every summer month. He is just a goofy 7'1 nerd from Cali that happens to be good at sports. Total nice guy next door type player.

He was put through hell from the moment Dwight caught a hard on for Brooklyn and dealt with it like a pro and never spoke ill of the Nets even while they went 12-70.

Anyway done with my rant. Lopez is a guy i can get behind and genuinely root for. Almost like he is one of us. With Dwight it just always seems forced. Maybe just me.

ee
11-27-2012, 04:47 AM
Ummm :confused:

After many different inflections on different words i still do not understand what you are trying to say here.

Im talking about some posters like DMF overrates lopez so much that he became the most hated center here on psd....

Whomewhome
11-27-2012, 05:18 AM
And how many of the 3 ahead of him are getting 30 mpg? Brook is doing this with only 30 mpg.
Yeah only Roy Hibbert

Whomewhome
11-27-2012, 05:23 AM
Every day i agree more and more. Not because i think Brook is as good as Dwight because they are not even in the same stratosphere; but because Brook Lopez is a guy i can root for. While i would cheer for Dwight if he were on my team i would never feel connected to him like i do to Brook.

It's sort or ironic that Dwight tries so hard to be this lovable likable guy and it comes off as fake at times while Lopez (the guy the Nets wanted to trade for Dwight) is legitimately a nerd at heart and hard to dislike. Brook studied creative writing at Stanford because he likes to write comic books. He likes Superman, Harry Potter and Star Wars. He loves Disney more than kids and is at ComiCon like every summer month. He is just a goofy 7'1 nerd from Cali that happens to be good at sports. Total nice guy next door type player.

He was put through hell from the moment Dwight caught a hard on for Brooklyn and dealt with it like a pro and never spoke ill of the Nets even while they went 12-70.

Anyway done with my rant. Lopez is a guy i can get behind and genuinely root for. Almost like he is one of us. With Dwight it just always seems forced. Maybe just me.
Look I see your point.. but there is just no denying that we ALL wanted Dwight. But when it all settled I am happy. We got a bench we probably would not have had with Dwight. Is it easier to root for Brook or Dwight? I don't know, Dwight was never on the team.

But right now, with the level Brook is playing I am more then satisfied...

netsgiantsyanks
11-27-2012, 06:56 AM
been busy, but I'm back.

You know what though, I can't totally fault PSD posters. PSD posters most likely have never seen Lopez play outside of nationally televised Nets games and there's been 1 in the last like 4 years(not including this season).

They see and hear about how great Tyson is on defense, they forget how bad he is on offense.

One thing that does really bother me though is that people are reluctant to mention Brook as a top center because they say "Basketball is a two way sport", yet they' throw Tyson in there like he's a force to be reckoned with.

:clap:

Knicks21
11-27-2012, 07:31 AM
LOL Marc Gasol!?

Marc Gasol is a worse rebounder, far less efficient from the field, a far inferior shot blocker, and not nearly the scorer Lopez is....but yeah Gasol is OBVIOUSLY better.

Tyson Chandler? Ummmm no, especially not obviously. People say "Talk to me when Brook plays D" Well what I say to you is "Talk to me when Tyson learns to play offense".

Brook Lopez is a decent defender, Tyson Chandler is a black hole on offense. If that guy isn't getting offensive putbacks, he's a worthless bum on offense. Granted he's a beast around the rim but he can't do anything on that end.

Andrew Bogut is an interesting one and I MIGHT give you that one. I believe he is the best low post defensive big man in the NBA. His offense is nothing more than average, but his defense and rebounding are superb...problem with that guy is he's never healthy, never played a full season.

Marc Gasol is the best passing big man i have seen in a long time, watch him play, his offensive skill set is better than lopez.

Offense can be grabbed from various areas in the league, anyone can play it when the offence runs through them. Not everyone can play team defence, ask anybody with any sort of reputable knowledge on what they would prefer. That granted however, Tyson has been absolute BS on the defensive end this season. But hey, 13 games isnt a great enough sample space is it?

Knicks21
11-27-2012, 07:34 AM
Defence always trumps offence, always.

There is always going to be offensive talent in the nba, always. I'd like to see someone come with a legitimate argument against what I have just said to justify why they are valued the same, I will gladly accept defeat.

I tried convincing myself during the D'antoni days that it was equal, boy was I wrong.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 08:07 AM
I agree with my man Shaq Brook is the best center in the league

benzni
11-27-2012, 09:57 AM
great offensive center and one of the better shooting ones but his defense and rebounds limits him. He has been blocking those shots though which is great. I say anywhere from #7-10 realistically

LongIslandIcedZ
11-27-2012, 11:09 AM
Chandler had 28 points on 12/13 shooting and 4/4 from the line.

I dont care if he didnt do them with dream shakes and fancy fadeaways, that is an insanely efficient night.

If people can see that Lopez had 11 rebounds and that he is now a good rebounder. Then I can say Chandler is the most efficient center in basketball, which might not be too far off.


Lopez had 22 on 9-20 shooting.

koreancabbage
11-27-2012, 11:20 AM
after this reaction thread to Lopez's once in a blue moon 11 rebounds, Chandler > Lopez

like people said, Chandler had a better game than Lopez

Rockice_8
11-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Brook is slowly becoming a force in the paint. He's contesting and changing shots consistently. Add that to his already stellar offensive game and he's a fringe top 5 C. The only thing holding him back from the top 3 is still his rebounding numbers and his decision making sometimes.

Still even though he'll never be Dwight or Hump on the glass he's putting the effort in and boxing out which is helping the Nets.

ManRam
11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
Even though I never wanted Brook, mainly because he'd be on a max contract, I always stood up for him. I always felt his true rebounding ability was more like his first two years than his second two years. I always felt he was a great offensive player. I just didn't think he was a guy Orlando should be trying to rebuild around. On a team like Brooklyn with a great PG, some talented wing scorers, a couple GREAT rebounders to play alongside him, well, that's a match made in heaven.

He did get underrated the past few years, but his play explains that.

I'm glad to see him doing well...dude takes so much crap from everyone. Sure, he's not the greatest rebounder for a center, but that's not a huge problem when you have guys like Humph and Reggie on the team. He's a tremendous offensive player.

Gram
11-27-2012, 11:35 AM
Brook had 11 rebs and 5 blocks tonight!!. He looked like the real defensive MVP tonight. An before people look at the box score and say Chandler killed him thats the reason HUMP was benched the entire 2nd half!!

Defense MVP? Let's not get hasty here.

Gram
11-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Oh so thats why hump was benched....

You guys overrate Hump to the max.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:39 AM
Chandler had 28 points on 12/13 shooting and 4/4 from the line.

I dont care if he didnt do them with dream shakes and fancy fadeaways, that is an insanely efficient night.

If people can see that Lopez had 11 rebounds and that he is now a good rebounder. Then I can say Chandler is the most efficient center in basketball, which might not be too far off.


Lopez had 22 on 9-20 shooting.

You cant give him the ball and expect him to score, he gets his points on alleys and putbacks, no jump shot in 10 years and no post up. Guy is a bum who was traded for like 5 different teams. He is a role player straight up.

mightybosstone
11-27-2012, 11:40 AM
It's hard to say, because center is such a tough position to define. For example, do you consider Duncan or Garnett centers? They certainly can play the position and have for extended periods before, but most would categorize them as PFs. What about Bosh? The Heat don't have a true center, so he plays the position, but technically he's still a PF. The same issue with Al Horford and Greg Monroe.

If you remove those guys from the center category, then I still think Dwight, Bynum and Marc Gasol are still definitely better, while guys like Jefferson, Chandler and Cousins are debatable in certain areas. But without Garnett, Duncan, Bosh or Horford, I would put Lopez in the top five. With them, he's top 10.

Gram
11-27-2012, 11:41 AM
I agree with my man Shaq Brook is the best center in the league

You just told me the other day that you don't think he's the best in the league. :facepalm:

Make up your mind.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:44 AM
Nazr Mohammad started on the Spurs championship team he is on the same level as Chandler, a role player. Chandler did not deserve that contract that contract is criminal, Knicks are paying Melo,Amare,Chandler huge money and last year were like a 7th seed. Their plan isnt working out. They just through money at anything, and thats not how it works. If Chandler was so good he wouldnt have been on so many teams, he isnt really wanted.

ManRam
11-27-2012, 11:47 AM
Nazr Mohammad started on the Spurs championship team he is on the same level as Chandler, a role player. Chandler did not deserve that contract that contract is criminal, Knicks are paying Melo,Amare,Chandler huge money and last year were like a 7th seed. Their plan isnt working out. They just through money at anything, and thats not how it works. If Chandler was so good he wouldnt have been on so many teams, he isnt really wanted.

Difference between Nazr and Tyson is that Tyson is an absolutely elite defender, and Nazr was not. To call Tyson a "role player" shows you are letting biases and emotions get in the way of your ability to reason.

Is he overpaid? Maybe...but lord knows that team needs his defense.

EDIT: I don't know why I respond to you. You're pretty awful.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-27-2012, 11:47 AM
You cant give him the ball and expect him to score, he gets his points on alleys and putbacks, no jump shot in 10 years and no post up. Guy is a bum who was traded for like 5 different teams. He is a role player straight up.

A role player who outplayed Lopez on both the offensive and defensive sides of the board.

It took Chandler 13 shots to get 28 points. It took Lopez 20 shots to get 22 points. Lopez is a good weak side blocker. That does not make someone good defensively. Amar'e is a good weakside blocker.

Chandler is the better player, I dont think its much of a question.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:49 AM
A role player who outplayed Lopez on both the offensive and defensive sides of the board.

It took Chandler 13 shots to get 28 points. It took Lopez 20 shots to get 22 points. Lopez is a good weak side blocker. That does not make someone good defensively. Amar'e is a good weakside blocker.

Chandler is the better player, I dont think its much of a question.

Brook has been on 1 team since 2008, Tyson has been on almost every team since 2001.
And who got the win and who got the loss?

Chandlers career high was last night like 28 thats what Brook gets on the regular.

Tysons avg this year is like 8 and 9 he isnt on Brooks level.

BKLYNpigeon
11-27-2012, 11:51 AM
Who Cares where Brook Lopez ranks. you guys forgot how good he was prior to his injury. He's a very productive Center in the NBA and only getting better. Its hard to find a Big thats 24 years old and averaging about 20 points a game.

I dont know why he gets so many haters... the kid can strait up ball.

mightybosstone
11-27-2012, 11:51 AM
Nazr Mohammad started on the Spurs championship team he is on the same level as Chandler, a role player. Chandler did not deserve that contract that contract is criminal, Knicks are paying Melo,Amare,Chandler huge money and last year were like a 7th seed. Their plan isnt working out. They just through money at anything, and thats not how it works. If Chandler was so good he wouldnt have been on so many teams, he isnt really wanted.

Offensively, I believe Lopez is definitely the better player. He's just more skilled and a larger repertoire of offensive moves. But Chandler is still a remarkably efficient offensive player (has led the league in TS% a few times, I believe) and one of the best defensive centers in the NBA. I admittedly have not seen the Nets play yet, but I hear Lopez has stepped up his defense and rebounding, but he's got a long way to go to touch Chandler in that regard.

I think it sort of depends on what you prefer in your center. If you need points, Lopez is your guy. If you need defense, Chandler is your guy. But based on his play to start the season, I'd give a slight edge to Lopez overall.

JiffyMix88
11-27-2012, 11:52 AM
You cant give him the ball and expect him to score, he gets his points on alleys and putbacks, no jump shot in 10 years and no post up. Guy is a bum who was traded for like 5 different teams. He is a role player straight up.

Hey just curious cause I see your a Nets fan and your join date was the same year Favors was drafted.

Does your name pertain to you wanting Derrick Favors to have anal sex with you?

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:53 AM
Difference between Nazr and Tyson is that Tyson is an absolutely elite defender, and Nazr was not. To call Tyson a "role player" shows you are letting biases and emotions get in the way of your ability to reason.

Is he overpaid? Maybe...but lord knows that team needs his defense.

EDIT: I don't know why I respond to you. You're pretty awful.

Tyson isnt an elite defender, how is he not a role player? All he does is play defense, defenders are role players. He cant pass, cant post up, cant shoot, cant do anything really. You need atleast 1 big post up player and Knicks dont have one.

maddBat
11-27-2012, 11:53 AM
his good play isnt a surprise. for those saying its because of dwill pls look at stats with and without. this is actually the 1st winning team hes ever been on. hes gotten more active on D hence being top 5 in blocks. which he has never done.

mightybosstone
11-27-2012, 12:00 PM
Tyson isnt an elite defender, how is he not a role player? All he does is play defense, defenders are role players. He cant pass, cant post up, cant shoot, cant do anything really. You need atleast 1 big post up player and Knicks dont have one.

Dude, this is just ridiculous. He is the reigning DPOY. I'll admit the award could probably go to a dozen guys every year, but you don't get that unless you have a huge impact on your team defensively and Chandler certainly does. And, no, he hardly has much range on his shot, but he's one of the most efficient offensive players in the history of the NBA because he knows his limitations and he's a phenomenal finisher around the basket.

Averaging 10/10 might not seem sexy, but nobody does it better than Chandler and he's more than capable of being the third best player on a championship team. Oh wait... He already was in Dallas. So, I completely fail to see how he's a "role player."

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Dude, this is just ridiculous. He is the reigning DPOY. I'll admit the award could probably go to a dozen guys every year, but you don't get that unless you have a huge impact on your team defensively and Chandler certainly does. And, no, he hardly has much range on his shot, but he's one of the most efficient offensive players in the history of the NBA because he knows his limitations and he's a phenomenal finisher around the basket.

Averaging 10/10 might not seem sexy, but nobody does it better than Chandler and he's more than capable of being the third best player on a championship team. Oh wait... He already was in Dallas. So, I completely fail to see how he's a "role player."

He won DPOY but was 2nd team all defense, that has never been done. I dont consider him DPOY. If you want to thats fine.

You can thank Dirk and Jason Terry for their big shots as the reason the Mavericks won the championship. There is nothing else to talk about, in my mind Tyson is awful and wouldnt want him anywhere near my team. Guess Fisher is a top player cause he won back to back championships as a starter for the Lakers.

mightybosstone
11-27-2012, 12:10 PM
He won DPOY but was 2nd team all defense, that has never been done. I dont consider him DPOY. If you want to thats fine.
Like I said, there are probably a dozen guys worthy of winning the award every year. And I don't think Dwight deserved it last season based on his constant media frenzy and injuries. Chandler was the reason why the Knicks defense was so much better last season, and he doesn't get enough credit playing next to awful defenders like Amare and Melo.


You can thank Dirk and Jason Terry for their big shots as the reason the Mavericks won the championship. There is nothing else to talk about, in my mind Tyson is awful and wouldnt want him anywhere near my team. Guess Fisher is a top player cause he won back to back championships as a starter for the Lakers.
This is also nonsense. Dirk and Terry played together for eight seasons but only won a title once in 2011. Why? Because they finally had a worthy defensive anchor on that team and their defense was finally able to match their high-powered offense. How could you not notice how much worse Dallas was last season without Chandler?

Also, guess who led that Dallas team in WS/48, rebounds, blocks and was second in PER? Chandler. So to call him a roll player and compare him to Derek Fisher is so beyond stupid I'm not even going to address it.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 12:15 PM
Like I said, there are probably a dozen guys worthy of winning the award every year. And I don't think Dwight deserved it last season based on his constant media frenzy and injuries. Chandler was the reason why the Knicks defense was so much better last season, and he doesn't get enough credit playing next to awful defenders like Amare and Melo.


This is also nonsense. Dirk and Terry played together for eight seasons but only won a title once in 2011. Why? Because they finally had a worthy defensive anchor on that team and their defense was finally able to match their high-powered offense. How could you not notice how much worse Dallas was last season without Chandler?

Also, guess who led that Dallas team in WS/48, rebounds, blocks and was second in PER? Chandler. So to call him a roll player and compare him to Derek Fisher is so beyond stupid I'm not even going to address it.

Dirk didnt choke that year, Chandler defended Joel Anthony really well in the finals, what a huge task for him. Id consider Dirk,Terry, JJ Baera as reasons the Mavs beat Heat. Role players like Tyson look good when they are around a good team, but when they are supposed to be the 3rd best player on the team and dont show up against Heat this past year in the playoffs, you are overated. I really cant believe you are sitting here and not giving Dirk any credit when if you watched the finals you would know he was unstoppable.

blahblahyoutoo
11-27-2012, 12:17 PM
D will gave him a lot of good looks. He didn't have many shots where he created for himself. Give a guy 15 layups from a foot away and I guarantee those stats can be achieved by many centers. If you watched the game Lopez had maybe a jumper and a hook but the rest was given by superb passing from deron

a jumper (or even a hook) is something a lot of centers in this league don't have.

ManRam
11-27-2012, 12:18 PM
Tyson isnt an elite defender, how is he not a role player? All he does is play defense, defenders are role players. He cant pass, cant post up, cant shoot, cant do anything really. You need atleast 1 big post up player and Knicks dont have one.

You consistently display a remarkable ability to post absolutely horrendous posts. It's truly amazing. I'm often left in awe.

He is an elite defender. Period. That's not up for discussion. If you think else wise, well, it's not a matter of opinions...you're just wrong. You might think he didn't deserve the DPOY, but he certainly deserved being in the discussion. And being second team all defense doesn't mean you aren't an elite defender. Your "logic" here is amazing.

He's limited offensively, sure...but he doesn't take bad shots really ever and for that reason he always has absolutely absurd TS% and eFG% numbers. I'll take that on a team with plenty of offense any day. Offensive rating can be a stupid stat, but again, his numbers are off the charts there. He's not a talented offensive player, but he's incredibly efficient and smart, granted it's all in small doses (which is fine).

And again, I'm not sure why I waste my time with you. You're obviously either just a troll or just really have no idea what you are ever talking about.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 12:23 PM
You consistently display a remarkable ability to post absolutely horrendous posts. It's truly amazing. I'm often left in awe.

He is an elite defender. Period. That's not up for discussion. If you think else wise, well, it's not a matter of opinions...you're just wrong. You might think he didn't deserve the DPOY, but he certainly deserved being in the discussion. And being second team all defense doesn't mean you aren't an elite defender. Your "logic" here is amazing.

He's limited offensively, sure...but he doesn't take bad shots really ever and for that reason he always has absolutely absurd TS% and eFG% numbers. I'll take that on a team with plenty of offense any day. Offensive rating can be a stupid stat, but again, his numbers are off the charts there. He's not a talented offensive player, but he's incredibly efficient and smart, granted it's all in small doses (which is fine).

And again, I'm not sure why I waste my time with you. You're obviously either just a troll or just really have no idea what you are ever talking about.

Well I mean if thats how you feel, thats how you feel. I am not going to change your opinion, and you obviously feel strong about this. But why has he been on so many teams? The truth is because no teams really want him, he is nice to have untill you need to upgrade when you realize you arent going to win something big with a player like Chandler.

netsfanfalife
11-27-2012, 12:24 PM
brook is by far a top three center !!!!

blahblahyoutoo
11-27-2012, 12:24 PM
Every day i agree more and more. Not because i think Brook is as good as Dwight because they are not even in the same stratosphere; but because Brook Lopez is a guy i can root for. While i would cheer for Dwight if he were on my team i would never feel connected to him like i do to Brook.

It's sort or ironic that Dwight tries so hard to be this lovable likable guy and it comes off as fake at times while Lopez (the guy the Nets wanted to trade for Dwight) is legitimately a nerd at heart and hard to dislike. Brook studied creative writing at Stanford because he likes to write comic books. He likes Superman, Harry Potter and Star Wars. He loves Disney more than kids and is at ComiCon like every summer month. He is just a goofy 7'1 nerd from Cali that happens to be good at sports. Total nice guy next door type player.

He was put through hell from the moment Dwight caught a hard on for Brooklyn and dealt with it like a pro and never spoke ill of the Nets even while they went 12-70.

Anyway done with my rant. Lopez is a guy i can get behind and genuinely root for. Almost like he is one of us. With Dwight it just always seems forced. Maybe just me.

plus his offensive game is so far ahead of dwights.

mightybosstone
11-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Dirk didnt choke that year, Chandler defended Joel Anthony really well in the finals, what a huge task for him. Id consider Dirk,Terry, JJ Baera as reasons the Mavs beat Heat.
This is ignorant. You're basically saying that all Chandler did was guard their worst offensive player, when he was the one anchoring the paint and often guarded Bosh when he wasn't on the perimeter.


Role players like Tyson look good when they are around a good team, but when they are supposed to be the 3rd best player on the team and dont show up against Heat this past year in the playoffs, you are overated.
That was one series that the Knicks had no chance whatsoever of winning. Also, what do you expect from him? To put up 20/10? Because he's not that kind of player and he's never going to be that kind of player. That still doesn't make him a role player. And to call him that shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the sport itself.


I really cant believe you are sitting here and not giving Dirk any credit when if you watched the finals you would know he was unstoppable.
When did I say Dirk didn't deserve credit? The dude played out of his mind in that postseason and outplayed the best player in the world. But all of that would have amounted to jack **** without a defense to stop other team's opposing offenses. Dirk is a lot of things, but a great post defender isn't one of them. Chandler complimented Dirk so well because he did the things Dirk was unable to do and Dirk did the things Chandler was unable to do. And if you don't understand that, then either you clearly didn't watch the Mavericks in 2011 or you do not understand the need for defense in the NBA.

Talking to you is exhausting, because your opinions are so misguided and biased that you fail to even comprehend the most simple of concepts.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 12:31 PM
This is ignorant. You're basically saying that all Chandler did was guard their worst offensive player, when he was the one anchoring the paint and often guarded Bosh when he wasn't on the perimeter.


That was one series that the Knicks had no chance whatsoever of winning. Also, what do you expect from him? To put up 20/10? Because he's not that kind of player and he's never going to be that kind of player. That still doesn't make him a role player. And to call him that shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the sport itself.


When did I say Dirk didn't deserve credit? The dude played out of his mind in that postseason and outplayed the best player in the world. But all of that would have amounted to jack **** without a defense to stop other team's opposing offenses. Dirk is a lot of things, but a great post defender isn't one of them. Chandler complimented Dirk so well because he did the things Dirk was unable to do and Dirk did the things Chandler was unable to do. And if you don't understand that, then either you clearly didn't watch the Mavericks in 2011 or you do not understand the need for defense in the NBA.

Talking to you is exhausting, because your opinions are so misguided and biased that you fail to even comprehend the most simple of concepts.

I am not biased against Tyson Chandler, I feel nothing towards him. I just dont think he is a good player. Knicks need a 4 or 5 that can go in the post and score and neither Amare or Tyson can do that. Its a bad match, because Tyson clogs the paint. Thats why I am saying this was a poorly put together team, its nothing against Tyson but he is making a lot of money and playing with 2 other guys making a lot of money. They arent doing anything together. Fact is Tyson has no skill he is lucky he is 7 feet because having no jump shot or post up in 11 years is lazy and pathetic. There are players like Dirk if they were 6 feet would be in the NBA, same cant be said about Tyson.

blahblahyoutoo
11-27-2012, 12:33 PM
A role player who outplayed Lopez on both the offensive and defensive sides of the board.

It took Chandler 13 shots to get 28 points. It took Lopez 20 shots to get 22 points. Lopez is a good weak side blocker. That does not make someone good defensively. Amar'e is a good weakside blocker.

Chandler is the better player, I dont think its much of a question.

chandler is a good fit for the knicks. he's not asked to take on any offensive duties with melo there.
he's there for defense and boards and put backs which is why his shooting % is so high.

lopez has to take on the role of a scorer. he's going to take many shots to get those points.

depends on how you define "better player".
in a 1 on 1, there's no doubt chandler would get schooled cuz he can't score if his life depended on it.

blahblahyoutoo
11-27-2012, 12:35 PM
Dude, this is just ridiculous. He is the reigning DPOY. I'll admit the award could probably go to a dozen guys every year, but you don't get that unless you have a huge impact on your team defensively and Chandler certainly does. And, no, he hardly has much range on his shot, but he's one of the most efficient offensive players in the history of the NBA because he knows his limitations and he's a phenomenal finisher around the basket.

Averaging 10/10 might not seem sexy, but nobody does it better than Chandler and he's more than capable of being the third best player on a championship team. Oh wait... He already was in Dallas. So, I completely fail to see how he's a "role player."

you haven't watched many knicks games then.
i've seen a few and was shaking my head when he took 2 long jumpers (nearly airing one of them) in the 1st quarter the the span of 3 or 4 possessions.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-27-2012, 12:39 PM
chandler is a good fit for the knicks. he's not asked to take on any offensive duties with melo there.
he's there for defense and boards and put backs which is why his shooting % is so high.

lopez has to take on the role of a scorer. he's going to take many shots to get those points.

depends on how you define "better player".
in a 1 on 1, there's no doubt chandler would get schooled cuz he can't score if his life depended on it.

Thankfully, no NBA game has ever been played 1 on 1.

Chandler anchors a defense, while putting up disgustingly efficient offensive numbers.

Is there anyone alive who would take a mediocre-at-best defender with a soft touch around the rim, over an elite defender that shoots over 60% from the field without much of a post game.

I'll take the offensively efficient and defensively elite player.

koreancabbage
11-27-2012, 12:39 PM
Tyson isnt an elite defender, how is he not a role player? All he does is play defense, defenders are role players. He cant pass, cant post up, cant shoot, cant do anything really. You need atleast 1 big post up player and Knicks dont have one.

who says? for all we know. Brook Lopez is a role player

Greet
11-27-2012, 12:44 PM
Thankfully, no NBA game has ever been played 1 on 1.

Chandler anchors a defense, while putting up disgustingly efficient offensive numbers.

Is there anyone alive who would take a mediocre-at-best defender with a soft touch around the rim, over an elite defender that shoots over 60% from the field without much of a post game.

I'll take the offensively efficient and defensively elite player.

Lol, comparing their offense is stupid.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Lol, comparing their offense is stupid.

Not comparing their offense. Brook has an incredible skillset for a big man. I'm comparing their overall games.

While Chandler has no touch outside 4 feet, he knows what he has to do on offense, and he does it well. He shoots above 60%. I dont care how he does it, that is incredibly efficient.

Essentially what I am saying is that Chandler is way more efficient on offense than Lopez is on D and on the boards.

I like Lopez game, I was thouroughly impressed.

Whomewhome
11-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Lol, comparing their offense is stupid.
I Agree.

And I am as fanatic as they come about Brook Lopez.

But Nets fans need to calm down in general, Brook is not Tyson or nowhere near his level on the defensive end of things. And As I read in an earlier post defense for a C always trumps offense.

So we as Nets fans need to relax chill out and let our beating do the talking right now Avery has this ball club balling... which is what we hoped for. I think we need to trade Hump for a guy who doesn't stat pad as much and for someone a la Reggie Evans but a starter. Gooden comes to mind, Milsap is another. These guys will only help Brook Lopez

BigDFan85
11-27-2012, 12:56 PM
Well I mean if thats how you feel, thats how you feel. I am not going to change your opinion, and you obviously feel strong about this. But why has he been on so many teams? The truth is because no teams really want him, he is nice to have untill you need to upgrade when you realize you arent going to win something big with a player like Chandler.

So I guess the Mavericks never won the title with Tyson....

mightybosstone
11-27-2012, 01:09 PM
you haven't watched many knicks games then.
i've seen a few and was shaking my head when he took 2 long jumpers (nearly airing one of them) in the 1st quarter the the span of 3 or 4 possessions.

Those are outliers, not the norm. EVERY player is going to take the occasional bad shot, so pulling a couple of examples for anybody isn't particularly difficult. But Chandler takes fewer dumb shots than maybe any player in the NBA. I also think he's probably trying to do a lot more offensively with Amare out. His 6.2 FGA per game are his most since playing with Chris Paul in 08-09.

But it's worth noting that he's still averaging an insane .704 from the floor and a .739 TS%, which are absolutely off the charts. His 144 ORtg and .257 WS/48 are completely disgusting and are career highs, as is his 21.4 PER. People are ripping Chandler, but he's having the best statistical season of his career so far. He leads the league in FG%, eFG%, TS% and ORtg while being fourth in WS/48 and 17th in PER.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2012, 01:12 PM
so when Lopez has a crap game can someone start thread asking if he is bottom 10, bottom 5, or D WIll doesnt pass him the ball enough?

ManningToTyree
11-27-2012, 01:16 PM
Borderline top 10 because of defense. Easily a top 5 offensive center.

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 01:36 PM
Even though I never wanted Brook, mainly because he'd be on a max contract, I always stood up for him. I always felt his true rebounding ability was more like his first two years than his second two years. I always felt he was a great offensive player. I just didn't think he was a guy Orlando should be trying to rebuild around. On a team like Brooklyn with a great PG, some talented wing scorers, a couple GREAT rebounders to play alongside him, well, that's a match made in heaven.

He did get underrated the past few years, but his play explains that.

I'm glad to see him doing well...dude takes so much crap from everyone. Sure, he's not the greatest rebounder for a center, but that's not a huge problem when you have guys like Humph and Reggie on the team. He's a tremendous offensive player.

Then there is the fact that he is not a stat padder. If he was a stat padder he would probably get more double doubles imo. However he just does not care. He gets his 6 or 7 and leaves it at that. You never see him fighting with Hump for a board. Lots of times he just boxes out and lets someone else get the board and runs back to set up offense

Not saying he is an amazing rebounder but i think is better than he cares to show

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 01:41 PM
Another DMF classic

VinceCarter
11-27-2012, 02:23 PM
D will gave him a lot of good looks. He didn't have many shots where he created for himself. Give a guy 15 layups from a foot away and I guarantee those stats can be achieved by many centers. If you watched the game Lopez had maybe a jumper and a hook but the rest was given by superb passing from deron

Lopez can create shots for himself. There's a lot of times where they just feed him posting up and he creates his own shot.

Pistol_Pete
11-27-2012, 02:24 PM
What is he averaging, something like 21, 6.5, and 2 blocks? That's good, and if he got his rebounds to double digits, he would be playing great. Without Williams, I would guess his points probably drop to somewhere around 16. Surrounded by the right pieces (which he is), he's exactly what you need in a C. He has got to work on those rebounds though.

Unfortunately, if the Nets continue to do well with Lopez playing good, and the Lakers continue to do bad, I can bet we'll see "Lopez to the Lakers for Dwight" rumors in January...regardless of how improbable it is now.

VinceCarter
11-27-2012, 02:30 PM
What is he averaging, something like 21, 6.5, and 2 blocks? That's good, and if he got his rebounds to double digits, he would be playing great. Without Williams, I would guess his points probably drop to somewhere around 16. Surrounded by the right pieces (which he is), he's exactly what you need in a C. He has got to work on those rebounds though.

Unfortunately, if the Nets continue to do well with Lopez playing good, and the Lakers continue to do bad, I can bet we'll see "Lopez to the Lakers for Dwight" rumors in January...regardless of how improbable it is now.

I don't think his points per game would drop but perhaps his FG%. He tried to be the man in our down season and scored 20 PPG I believe. I'm in class and not going to research now.

ee
11-27-2012, 03:24 PM
Some love for lopez for some reason.... Didn't know he has this much respect...

JayW_1023
11-27-2012, 03:40 PM
He is in a situation where he is maximized...with an elite pick 'n roll distributer and a guy whom excels at doing big man stuff that he isn't known for. Humphries' rebounding and hustle compliments his game so well.

I noticed that all the games where he has been DWill main target have resulted in wins. DWill maximized Boozers efficiency, who is 6'7. Lopez is 7'1. Quite a target.

superior
11-27-2012, 03:52 PM
You said when. Today was that day. 11 rebs, 5 blks

LMAO bro bro dude had 11 rebounds for the first time all season, but my man had 28 on his ***, how is this a good thing for lopez???

superior
11-27-2012, 03:55 PM
He is in a situation where he is maximized...with an elite pick 'n roll distributer and a guy whom excels at doing big man stuff that he isn't known for. Humphries' rebounding and hustle compliments his game so well.

I noticed that all the games where he has been DWill main target have resulted in wins. DWill maximized Boozers efficiency, who is 6'7. Lopez is 7'1. Quite a target.

boozer is 6'7''? :facepalm:

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 03:56 PM
You said when. Today was that day. 11 rebs, 5 blks

LMAO bro bro dude had 11 rebounds for the first time all season, but my man had 28 on his ***, how is this a good thing for lopez???

On him? You need to rewatch the game because most of those came on nobody

BEASTINEAST
11-27-2012, 04:10 PM
after dwight howard and bynum there just aren't any dominant centers. you have a bunch of good centers with varying skills you can argue for top 5 spot. I'd say brook is firmly placed in that group.

BradHolt4CYoung
11-27-2012, 04:11 PM
Lopez is one of the best offensive PLAYERS in the NBA. He is so gifted...it's Duncan-esq

There will always be questions about his rebounding/defense but his offense is unstoppable.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 04:15 PM
after dwight howard and bynum there just aren't any dominant centers. you have a bunch of good centers with varying skills you can argue for top 5 spot. I'd say brook is firmly placed in that group.

BYNUM is done bro i highly doubt he is ever the same

JayW_1023
11-27-2012, 04:15 PM
boozer is 6'7''? :facepalm:

On bare feet. 6'8 with shoes.

JayW_1023
11-27-2012, 04:18 PM
Lopez is one of the best offensive PLAYERS in the NBA. He is so gifted...it's Duncan-esq

There will always be questions about his rebounding/defense but his offense is unstoppable.

Don't exaggerate now. A very good scorer on the block, but as far as feel for the game as a playmaker, Duncan is just elite for a big (on an all-time scale).

I do like Brook Lopez. Very skilled center, great stroke and hands.

Definitely the best C in the East now.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 06:46 PM
brook isnt a good defender... but he has good days...brook didnt get killed on the pnr as bad as he could have but felton was awful... chandler ended up grabbing those boards for putbacks when dwill was switched on him

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 07:41 PM
What is he averaging, something like 21, 6.5, and 2 blocks? That's good, and if he got his rebounds to double digits, he would be playing great. Without Williams, I would guess his points probably drop to somewhere around 16. Surrounded by the right pieces (which he is), he's exactly what you need in a C. He has got to work on those rebounds though.

Unfortunately, if the Nets continue to do well with Lopez playing good, and the Lakers continue to do bad, I can bet we'll see "Lopez to the Lakers for Dwight" rumors in January...regardless of how improbable it is now.

Well, that's not true.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 07:43 PM
Don't exaggerate now. A very good scorer on the block, but as far as feel for the game as a playmaker, Duncan is just elite for a big (on an all-time scale).

I do like Brook Lopez. Very skilled center, great stroke and hands.

Definitely the best C in the East now.

Yes he is, and the 2nd best center in the NBA right now(Andrew Bynum is not playing, if he was I have Lopez 3rd).

The only other play I might consider better than Lopez is Andrew Bogut when healthy.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 07:50 PM
Marc Gasol is the best passing big man i have seen in a long time, watch him play, his offensive skill set is better than lopez.

Offense can be grabbed from various areas in the league, anyone can play it when the offence runs through them. Not everyone can play team defence, ask anybody with any sort of reputable knowledge on what they would prefer. That granted however, Tyson has been absolute BS on the defensive end this season. But hey, 13 games isnt a great enough sample space is it?

That is not true.

So anybody can put up LeBron James type numbers if given the same amount of shots?

Not everyone can play team defense? Yes they can. Brook Lopez is playing much better team defense than anybody ever thought he would. Carlos Boozer was a starter on the best defensive team. Chris Bosh and Joel Anthony started for one of the better defensive teams.

Offense can be grabbed from various areas in the league. Okay how many Centers score 22 per 36 shooting 55%? And no don't name me Centers that get all their points on putbacks and cuts, that's not nearly the same as running an offense through a player.

How come Andrew Bogut never came near 20 when he was clearly the best player on his team? Try running an offense through Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah and see what you get.

Marc Gasol is indeed a great passing big man. But how does that make him a better player than Lopez? Gasol is a better one on one defender, an inferior shot blocker. He is obviously inferior on offense.

Alayla
11-27-2012, 07:50 PM
Don't exaggerate now. A very good scorer on the block, but as far as feel for the game as a playmaker, Duncan is just elite for a big (on an all-time scale).

I do like Brook Lopez. Very skilled center, great stroke and hands.

Definitely the best C in the East now.

I realise Bynum is hurt so it can be easy to just plug someone else into the spot but the best center in the east is Bynum. thats like saying Rose isnt a top 5 PG just becuase he is hurt.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Defence always trumps offence, always.

There is always going to be offensive talent in the nba, always. I'd like to see someone come with a legitimate argument against what I have just said to justify why they are valued the same, I will gladly accept defeat.

I tried convincing myself during the D'antoni days that it was equal, boy was I wrong.

So you'd rather take Thabo Sefalosha rather than Carmelo Anthony...?

Defense does not always trump offense when comparing two players. If it did, Tony Allen would be among the best shooting guards in the NBA and Carmelo Anthony would not be anything above average.

TEAM defense always trumps TEAM offense. That much is true.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 07:57 PM
I realise Bynum is hurt so it can be easy to just plug someone else into the spot but the best center in the east is Bynum. thats like saying Rose isnt a top 5 PG just becuase he is hurt.

Derrick Rose has proven over the years that he is quite easily a top 5 PG with his play and durability.

Andrew Bynum is better than Brook Lopez, when healthy...except for their head to head match-ups where Brook Lopez makes him look like a high school kid. However, what's the point of being better than if you've never had a healthy season whereas the other guy hasn't missed a game in his career outside of 1 year?

Andrew Bynum is better than Brook Lopez. Yes. No questions asked. Who would I rather have? That's where things go the other way.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 07:58 PM
LMAO bro bro dude had 11 rebounds for the first time all season, but my man had 28 on his ***, how is this a good thing for lopez???

Lopez would go help his teammate who was beat off the ball and Kris Humphries/Gerald Wallace/Reggie Evans did not rotate. How is that scoring 28 on Lopez?

I'm waiting.

Gritz
11-27-2012, 08:03 PM
When did his name mean anything?

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 08:14 PM
When did his name mean anything?

nationally, it never has.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 08:53 PM
When did his name mean anything?

exactly he's always been underrated

GiantsSwaGG
11-27-2012, 08:56 PM
Chandler scored 28 points thou :laugh:

justinnum1
11-27-2012, 08:58 PM
if lopez is a top 5 center, then bosh is a top 4 center...

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 08:59 PM
bosh is a PF

justinnum1
11-27-2012, 09:02 PM
bosh is a PF

he plays center.

lopez is a pf too that plays center

bosh is a better center than lopez

heyman321
11-27-2012, 09:04 PM
Brook is a girls name

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Brook is a girls name

Brooke is a girls name. I have never met a girl named Brook

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 09:08 PM
if lopez is a top 5 center, then bosh is a top 4 center...

Well Lopez is a top 5 SG... what does Bosh have to match that? Served.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 09:10 PM
Brook has been very good offensively, and while I still want to see a 4-5% climb in rebound rate, he has been the Nets best player.

Is he worth that deal? Of course not. But the same can be said of so many players, its not even funny.

justinnum1
11-27-2012, 09:15 PM
Well Lopez is a top 5 SG... what does Bosh have to match that? Served.

That's something to be proud of.

krisxsong
11-27-2012, 09:22 PM
if lopez is a top 5 center, then bosh is a top 4 center...

Nope.

Chris Bosh is not a better Center than Brook Lopez. Don't get me wrong, you can make a very strong case that Chris Bosh is a better power forward than Lopez is a center, but both as centers no Bosh is not better.

Also, it's not as if Bosh is some push over, you act like he's a joke. How many Centers will you find putting up 20 and 8 on 56% shooting from the field and 85% from the line?

BKLYNpigeon
11-27-2012, 09:26 PM
Blame the injuries, Brook Lopez has always been good. you cant find may 7 footers that average 20 points a game and only 24 years old.

I really cant understand why Brook Lopez and Harden get hated on.

justinnum1
11-27-2012, 09:30 PM
Nope.

Chris Bosh is not a better Center than Brook Lopez. Don't get me wrong, you can make a very strong case that Chris Bosh is a better power forward than Lopez is a center, but both as centers no Bosh is not better.

Also, it's not as if Bosh is some push over, you act like he's a joke. How many Centers will you find putting up 20 and 8 on 56% shooting from the field and 85% from the line?

Maybe 1 or 2 more. one of the reasons bosh is better at center than brook.

netsgiantsyanks
11-27-2012, 09:36 PM
brook gets hated on because of his defense/rebounding and DMF.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 09:45 PM
Well Lopez is a top 5 SG... what does Bosh have to match that? Served.

:facepalm:

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:05 PM
Lopez has improved, but not ready to put him top 5. I have
Dwight
Bynum (healthy)
Gasol
Horford
Chandler
ahead of him. Lopez has improved but he needs to rebound and defend better, I know he had 5 blocks congrats, still not consistant.

netsgiantsyanks
11-27-2012, 10:06 PM
but brook is averaging 3 blocks a game. not like he just had a random block party.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:06 PM
lol chandler

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 10:15 PM
if lopez is a top 5 center, then bosh is a top 4 center...
IF Bosh is a center then LeBron is a PF and that would make Durant the best SF in the NBA. And otherwise Bosh is not better than Lopez

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 10:16 PM
Chandler scored 28 points thou :laugh:
very easy when no one is guarding you because your terrible offensively.

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Love how you laugh at Chandler, but you seem to base a lot of stats off last night, Chandler missed one shot, 28 and 14 seems pretty good. You want to say oh well he had open dunks, but Dwill gave Lopez a lot of open dunks/layups. When Lopez went to the post one on one he went nowhere. Chandler is still a top 5-6 Center, until Lopez plays consistant defense and rebounds he isn't top 5.

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:18 PM
Can someone explain why it matters that he has no offensive game? He is efficent and can put in points who cares if its dunks or they leave him open? It happens, he shoots 68% doesn't matter how, in the pick and roll game its pretty obvious youhave to look for Chandler to get the lob and for him to finish it.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:19 PM
Love how you laugh at Chandler, but you seem to base a lot of stats off last night, Chandler missed one shot, 28 and 14 seems pretty good. You want to say oh well he had open dunks, but Dwill gave Lopez a lot of open dunks/layups. When Lopez went to the post one on one he went nowhere. Chandler is still a top 5-6 Center, until Lopez plays consistant defense and rebounds he isn't top 5.

Brook put up 22 on Chandler, Chandler is not a top 5 center. You do realize before he was overated and went to Dallas he was considered one of the biggest busts of the 2000s?

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 10:20 PM
Brook put up 22 on Chandler, Chandler is not a top 5 center. You do realize before he was overated and went to Dallas he was considered one of the biggest busts of the 2000s?

Still top five. Sorry, dude.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:20 PM
Love how you laugh at Chandler, but you seem to base a lot of stats off last night, Chandler missed one shot, 28 and 14 seems pretty good. You want to say oh well he had open dunks, but Dwill gave Lopez a lot of open dunks/layups. When Lopez went to the post one on one he went nowhere. Chandler is still a top 5-6 Center, until Lopez plays consistant defense and rebounds he isn't top 5.

chandler doesnt impact games like lopez... and lopez is the best player on one of the best teams in the east... we cant say that about chandler.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:23 PM
You could tell Chandler doesnt score a lot when he goes crazy everytime he gets an AND1 , that guy needs to settle down...that just shows everyone that you never do anything big.

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:24 PM
Brook put up 22 on Chandler, Chandler is not a top 5 center. You do realize before he was overated and went to Dallas he was considered one of the biggest busts of the 2000s?


chandler doesnt impact games like lopez... and lopez is the best player on one of the best teams in the east... we cant say that about chandler.

DMF buddy for your sake stop these stupid comments, You want to stay on the site? A lot of people wait for this type of stuff and boom your banned again.
Jmoney stop taking Notes from DMF. Lopez isnt the best player on his team, Deron is clearly better, you can take this bul **** 13 game sample and stop it . Chander Impacts the game on the defensive side and in the rebounding game. Lopez is a great offensive talent but he lacks the other side of the court and rebounding. He isnt terrible, I have him the 7th best center, until he can prove he can keep up this for the whole year.

thekmp211
11-27-2012, 10:24 PM
brook lopez sux, tyson chandler sux, melo sux, d-will sux, new york sux. /thread.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:26 PM
DMF buddy for your sake stop these stupid comments, You want to stay on the site? A lot of people wait for this type of stuff and boom your banned again.
Jmoney stop taking Notes from DMF. Lopez isnt the best player on his team, Deron is clearly better, you can take this bul **** 13 game sample and stop it . Chander Impacts the game on the defensive side and in the rebounding game. Lopez is a great offensive talent but he lacks the other side of the court and rebounding. He isnt terrible, I have him the 7th best center, until he can prove he can keep up this for the whole year.

so far this season lopez > williams

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:26 PM
DMF buddy for your sake stop these stupid comments, You want to stay on the site? A lot of people wait for this type of stuff and boom your banned again.
Jmoney stop taking Notes from DMF. Lopez isnt the best player on his team, Deron is clearly better, you can take this bul **** 13 game sample and stop it . Chander Impacts the game on the defensive side and in the rebounding game. Lopez is a great offensive talent but he lacks the other side of the court and rebounding. He isnt terrible, I have him the 7th best center, until he can prove he can keep up this for the whole year.

lol you are too funny he was passed around from team to team and Dallas didnt even resign him. He was the 2nd pick in the draft and if you read what people said he was one of the biggest draft busts of the 2000s.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:27 PM
and chandlers defense is overrated like hell imo

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:28 PM
a defender doesnt make someone a top 5 center especially when he cant do anything else....cant pass, cant shoot, cant post up.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:31 PM
for once im gonna have to agree with dmf

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 10:32 PM
a defender doesnt make someone a top 5 center especially when he cant do anything else....cant pass, cant shoot, cant post up.

If you can't play defense or rebound you will not be a top five center. Just like Lopez. Highest I'd go is top six, and that's generous as hell.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:33 PM
If you can't play defense or rebound you will not be a top five center. Just like Lopez. Highest I'd go is top six, and that's generous as hell.

Thats what Dampier did guess he was a top 5 center too....and Chandler isnt a great rebounder

DreamShaker
11-27-2012, 10:34 PM
With a name like Brook Lopez, not sure Idd want to earn it. Brook Lopez sounds like the name of a Puerto Rican swimsuit model.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:35 PM
If you can't play defense or rebound you will not be a top five center. Just like Lopez. Highest I'd go is top six, and that's generous as hell.

being a better athlete than every center not named dwight howard doesnt mean you're more skilled... chandler has no skill except for being a good athlete

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:35 PM
Wow. Note to self:Jmoney moves ahead of Wavey (Until Wavyes next post ofcourse)on the troll list. Lopez>Deron? Your going NOWHERE then, you better pray that isn't true. LOL Lopez as the best player. There is more to basketball then scoring, Chandler plays the pick and roll game pretty good, Oh I guess that doesn't count. Chandler is one of if not the best post defender in the league, while being a solid rebounder, Oh I guess that doesn't count because he can't shoot. I guess Lopez is better because he scores and is an average defender and a terrible rebounder. Scoring is all that matters, I understand now.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:37 PM
Wow. Note to self:Jmoney moves ahead of Wavey (Until Wavyes next post ofcourse)on the troll list. Lopez>Deron? Your going NOWHERE then, you better pray that isn't true. LOL Lopez as the best player. There is more to basketball then scoring, Chandler plays the pick and roll game pretty good, Oh I guess that doesn't count. Chandler is one of if not the best post defender in the league, while being a solid rebounder, Oh I guess that doesn't count because he can't shoot. I guess Lopez is better because he scores and is an average defender and a terrible rebounder. Scoring is all that matters, I understand now.

Check the Nets points in the paint yesterday against Chandler, and Reggie was killing your boy Chandler on the glass....Chandler looked like a terrible rebounder when Evans was in.

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:39 PM
Check the Nets points in the paint yesterday against Chandler, and Reggie was killing your boy Chandler on the glass....Chandler looked like a terrible rebounder when Evans was in.

:laugh: Check out everytime Lopez went one on one in the post. Evans is a great rebounder/Flopper/Pesky **** no doubting that, but He also wasn't in much with Chandler.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:40 PM
Wow. Note to self:Jmoney moves ahead of Wavey (Until Wavyes next post ofcourse)on the troll list. Lopez>Deron? Your going NOWHERE then, you better pray that isn't true. LOL Lopez as the best player. There is more to basketball then scoring, Chandler plays the pick and roll game pretty good, Oh I guess that doesn't count. Chandler is one of if not the best post defender in the league, while being a solid rebounder, Oh I guess that doesn't count because he can't shoot. I guess Lopez is better because he scores and is an average defender and a terrible rebounder. Scoring is all that matters, I understand now.

can you not read?


I said THIS season

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:41 PM
:laugh: Check out everytime Lopez went one on one in the post. Evans is a great rebounder/Flopper/Pesky **** no doubting that, but He also wasn't in much with Chandler.

He got a few stops but in OT the first basket was Brook iso and score on Chandler, and players were running right through the paint with layup marathon yesterday. Ive even seen on your knicks board people think Chandler is overated....

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:44 PM
can you not read?


I said THIS season

And again, your 13 game sample size is trash. I would love if Brook was th best player. Deron even with his piss poor shooting numbers is still clearly the better player even now. And will be by the end of the season.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:45 PM
:laugh: Check out everytime Lopez went one on one in the post. Evans is a great rebounder/Flopper/Pesky **** no doubting that, but He also wasn't in much with Chandler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCdjyNqGY68

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCdjyNqGY68

nope going above your season average and shooting 50% is good defense according to him.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:47 PM
And again, your 13 game sample size is trash. I would love if Brook was th best player. Deron even with his piss poor shooting numbers is still clearly the better player even now. And will be by the end of the season.

lopez will just get better all season... first time playing on a good team and hes flourishing... dont be mad

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:48 PM
nope going above your season average and shooting 50% is good defense according to him.

he definitely didnt shoot 50 percent

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:49 PM
offensive centers are the hardest to find, defensive rebounding centers are dime a dozen

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
he definitely didnt shoot 50 percent

11 for 22

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:51 PM
9 for 20 * See 20 Shots to score 21 points, is what we call an inefficent night. Im so sorry you net fans with logic that have to deal with these 3

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:52 PM
11 for 22

9 for 20

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:52 PM
9 for 20 * See 20 Shots to score 21 points, is what we call an inefficent night. Im so sorry you net fans with logic that have to deal with these 3

22 points bro

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 10:54 PM
Chandler is a decent defender, he just isnt a top 5 or top 10 for that matter center in this league.

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:54 PM
Same thing.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:55 PM
9 for 20 * See 20 Shots to score 21 points, is what we call an inefficent night. Im so sorry you net fans with logic that have to deal with these 3

I dont understand why you try to patronize...I'm sitting here dropping logical evidence and you want to act like its something far fetched.... its not like im sitting here saying brook lopez is better than dwight howard.... if anything its hilarious that you think chandler is some god and that you pity anybody for thinking brook is better lol

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 10:56 PM
I dont understand why you try to patronize...I'm sitting here dropping logical evidence and you want to act like its something far fetched.... its not like im sitting here saying brook lopez is better than dwight howard.... if anything its hilarious that you think chandler is some god and that you pity anybody for thinking brook is better lol

It's hilarious you think Lopez is in the same class as Chandler

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 10:58 PM
I dont understand why you try to patronize...I'm sitting here dropping logical evidence and you want to act like its something far fetched.... its not like im sitting here saying brook lopez is better than dwight howard.... if anything its hilarious that you think chandler is some god and that you pity anybody for thinking brook is better lol

God? Im stating Facts that Chandler is the way better defender and Rebounder. You said he can't impact the gamelike Brook but he can and does on the other side of the court. He isnt th scorer like Lopez but he is a very efficent guy, doesn't matter how he does it, the 2 he scores on the basket counts the same as Lopez nice spin move or 15 footer. Lopez isn't the better center, You said Lopez is better then Deron when that isn't true. You use 13 games as your evidence, thats stupid. 13 games doesn't tell the story.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 10:59 PM
It's hilarious you think Lopez is in the same class as Chandler

you're right... brook is in a higher class

knicks=love
11-27-2012, 11:00 PM
nope going above your season average and shooting 50% is good defense according to him.

but you think the nets have a top 5 defense because they average giving up the least amount of points (in your mind) when they don't.

:laugh: :laugh:

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:00 PM
God? Im stating Facts that Chandler is the way better defender and Rebounder. You said he can't impact the gamelike Brook but he can and does on the other side of the court. He isnt th scorer like Lopez but he is a very efficent guy, doesn't matter how he does it, the 2 he scores on the basket counts the same as Lopez nice spin move or 15 footer. Lopez isn't the better center, You said Lopez is better then Deron when that isn't true. You use 13 games as your evidence, thats stupid. 13 games doesn't tell the story.

you say chandler impacts the game on the defensive end yet almost ever knick fan has said he has slipped a lot this season on that end... and even last night brook had more of an impact on the defensive end

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 11:04 PM
you say chandler impacts the game on the defensive end yet almost ever knick fan has said he has slipped a lot this season on that end... and even last night brook had more of an impact on the defensive end

:facepalm: 13 games You have to bekidding. Holy ****. Lopez scored is points with the penetration (sorry for the mis spell) from Williams. Chandler is a great defender, he has had a couple of lapes that we aren't used to seeing in the last two years from him, Doesn't mean he doesn't effect the game on the defensive side.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:05 PM
Fact is Brook will be an allstar someday in his career, Chandler wont.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:05 PM
you say chandler impacts the game on the defensive end yet almost ever knick fan has said he has slipped a lot this season on that end... and even last night brook had more of an impact on the defensive end

Even if you believe what you write, Lopez negatively affects his teams defense while he is on the court. Like, by a lot.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:06 PM
Even if you believe what you write, Lopez negatively affects his teams defense while he is on the court. Like, by a lot.

numbers prove otherwise homeslice

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:07 PM
numbers prove otherwise homeslice

They don't.

109 points per possession given up per 100 possessions. That's extremely high for a center.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:09 PM
Why didnt Knicks score their season avg in Points last night? The Nets defense must have been good....

Robbw241
11-27-2012, 11:11 PM
They don't.

109 points per possession given up per 100 possessions. That's extremely high for a center.



.729 PPP this year. Season is young but he looks much improved

DoMeFavors
11-27-2012, 11:15 PM
Nobody except fans think Chandler is better than Lopez, Chris Broussard said earlier Lopez is better....Shaq said Lopez is one of the top centers. Chandler is overated just like Lin, Fields, Felton in 2010, Iman, Novak, Shawn Williams, Harelson.

b@llhog24
11-27-2012, 11:18 PM
He's top 5 right now easily. And no he doesn't need to rebound if he can contribute in other areas just as well. As long as he's contributing in other areas at a high level. I'd be more concerned with his impact defensively which has been decent so from most accounts I've heard. Can't really comment though, I've only watched about 2-3 Nets games.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:19 PM
.729 PPP this year. Season is young but he looks much improved

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN15.HTM

Wrong.

They are in fact, much better defensively when he is on the bench.

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 11:21 PM
He's top 5 right now easily. And no he doesn't need to rebound if he can contribute in other areas just as well. As long as he's contributing in other areas at a high level. I'd be more concerned with his impact defensively which has been decent so from most accounts I've heard. Can't really comment though, I've only watched about 2-3 Nets games.

If we are judging 13 games yes he is. He still needs to rebound, His defenses is improved so far but still meh,no doubt he is playing well, I just want to see him keep it up.

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 11:21 PM
Chandler is overated just like Lin, Fields, Felton in 2010, Iman, Novak, Shawn Williams, Harelson.

I generally think your extremely ignorant about all things NBA related but you are spot on with this one. Lin, Fields, Iman and this list goes on. Those guys were all a product of the Knick hype machine one time or another. And Chandler winning DPOY was a joke

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 11:22 PM
http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN15.HTM

Wrong.

They are in fact, much better defensively when he is on the bench.

Because when he is on the bench the other teams scrubs are in.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:24 PM
you also have to take into consideration that he comes off the floor and its 2nd unit vs 2nd unit...

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 11:24 PM
:laugh: enter Troll#3

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:25 PM
do you even know what trolling is?

waveycrockett
11-27-2012, 11:27 PM
do you even know what trolling is?

Apparently it's whenever someone proves him wrong.

Robbw241
11-27-2012, 11:28 PM
http://www.82games.com/1213/12BKN15.HTM

Wrong.

They are in fact, much better defensively when he is on the bench.

If you're going to try and use advanced stats, at least look at the right ones. Makes you look like less of a dumb ****.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324469304578145472449943476.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

xxplayerxx23
11-27-2012, 11:29 PM
If you're going to try and use advanced stats, at least look at the right ones. Makes you look like less of a dumb ****.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324469304578145472449943476.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

Ignore him. Yes Lopez is much improved so far, there is no doubting how wel he is playing, I just want to see him stay healthy and keep up this play on defense for a whole year.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:30 PM
We weren't proven wrong though?

The eye test, advanced stats tell the same sad story for Lopez. He can't box out, he can't rebound, and he can't defend the paint.

The argument that he is against the first unit is a crock. He will play against second unit players and even then, a top five center would not be that bad on defense. Bogut, Chandler, Howard, all play on the first unit and their defensive stats are not so horribly skewed.

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:31 PM
If you're going to try and use advanced stats, at least look at the right ones. Makes you look like less of a dumb ****.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324469304578145472449943476.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

82games is legitimate as legitimate can be.

Robbw241
11-27-2012, 11:34 PM
Too bad it isn't. That's why it's free.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:35 PM
We weren't proven wrong though?

The eye test, advanced stats tell the same sad story for Lopez. He can't box out, he can't rebound, and he can't defend the paint.

The argument that he is against the first unit is a crock. He will play against second unit players and even then, a top five center would not be that bad on defense. Bogut, Chandler, Howard, all play on the first unit and their defensive stats are not so horribly skewed.

hes an average rebounder, and defends the paint... hence why hes among the league leaders in blocks... the only part of his defense that he struggles with is PNR defense and hes working to improve it

at least watch games before you try to drop knowledge

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:36 PM
Blocks don't mean you are good at defense. It's not a good indicator at all.

b@llhog24
11-27-2012, 11:38 PM
In a general sense. Synergy>82 games. But defensive metrics carry more weight to use in an argument imo when they all follow the same trend.

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:39 PM
Blocks don't mean you are good at defense. It's not a good indicator at all.

being a good shot blocker can have huge impact on a game... if you think otherwise you're ********

b@llhog24
11-27-2012, 11:41 PM
being a good shot blocker can have huge impact on a game... if you think otherwise you're ********

Lol not the first time he's been told that.

Gritz
11-27-2012, 11:42 PM
Brooke is a girls name. I have never met a girl named Brook

That's because the only girl you know gave birth to you

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:46 PM
being a good shot blocker can have huge impact on a game... if you think otherwise you're ********

It can mean you get beat off the dribble, fall for too many pump fakes, etc.

Block shots are a useful thing, but it doesn't tell you how well someone is defending.

Ibaka led the leagues in blocks last year, but it was pretty obvious he was not the best defensive center.

GiantsSwaGG
11-27-2012, 11:48 PM
very easy when no one is guarding you because your terrible offensively.

Says a lot about your team

Chill_Will_24
11-27-2012, 11:48 PM
That's because the only girl you know gave birth to you

Shots fired :rolleyes: If only you knew

jmoney85
11-27-2012, 11:50 PM
It can mean you get beat off the dribble, fall for too many pump fakes, etc.

Block shots are a useful thing, but it doesn't tell you how well someone is defending.

Ibaka led the leagues in blocks last year, but it was pretty obvious he was not the best defensive center.

ibaka isnt even a center lol

Guppyfighter
11-27-2012, 11:50 PM
ibaka isnt even a center lol

You are right. I don't why I said center. Still applies to power forwards.

ee
11-28-2012, 12:25 AM
It can mean you get beat off the dribble, fall for too many pump fakes, etc.

Block shots are a useful thing, but it doesn't tell you how well someone is defending.

Ibaka led the leagues in blocks last year, but it was pretty obvious he was not the best defensive center.

You might be right that blocks are not a good incator but it's still taking away possible 4-6points from the other team.....brook still has a long way on becoming a good one on one defender, but the nets defensive strategy works well for him and he does work a lot harder than his previous seasons.....

Munkeysuit
11-28-2012, 12:29 AM
Top 5 easily

waveycrockett
11-28-2012, 12:34 AM
Says a lot about your team

Yep nobody paid any attention to him and we still won.

waveycrockett
11-28-2012, 12:37 AM
It can mean you get beat off the dribble, fall for too many pump fakes, etc.

Yea guys who get beat off the dribble and fall for pump fakes always get tons of blocks............:crazy:

Mutombo would like a word with you

Guppyfighter
11-28-2012, 12:46 AM
Yea guys who get beat off the dribble and fall for pump fakes always get tons of blocks............:crazy:

Mutombo would like a word with you

You do realize this is a clear misrepresentation of my position and not what I was saying.

Getting blocks does not mean you are a good defender and there are reasons for that. Being a bad defender in general does not mean you are going to get a lot of blocks anyways.

The fact you tried to equate that is dumb.

waveycrockett
11-28-2012, 01:00 AM
Getting blocks does not mean you are a good defender and there are reasons for that. Being a bad defender in general does not mean you are going to get a lot of blocks anyways.

The fact you tried to equate that is dumb.

Ok name me one bad defender that has been one of the leagues best shot blockers. I'll wait.

Guppyfighter
11-28-2012, 01:05 AM
Ok name me one bad defender that has been one of the leagues best shot blockers. I'll wait.

Ibaka was incredibly average on defense despite leading the league in blocks.

waveycrockett
11-28-2012, 01:13 AM
Ibaka was incredibly average on defense despite leading the league in blocks.

Oh so thats why he finished 2nd in DPOY voting. Because he's incredibly average on defense ok.

krisxsong
11-28-2012, 01:22 AM
Blocks don't mean you are good at defense. It's not a good indicator at all.

You are right and wrong.

Blocks doesn't mean you are good at defense, but to say it's not a good indicator at all is wrong.

Lopez is playing good help defense and is protecting the rim, that is evident by his blocks. He is also the league leader in blocks-to-foul ratio which says a lot about how effective he is when going for blocks.

He is not a good one on one low post defender, but if you beat your man off the dribble or a smaller player drives it on Lopez, don't expect an easy bucket.

Guppyfighter
11-28-2012, 01:23 AM
He finished in second because the writers are dumb.

krisxsong
11-28-2012, 01:25 AM
Ibaka was incredibly average on defense despite leading the league in blocks.

LOL you are being just ridiculous.

Defense as a big man isn't all about defending a player when they back you down.

When players would drive to the hoop and they see Ibaka there, do you really think they're thinking to themselves "Oh this guy is an average one on one defender he ain't gonn play good D on me"?

Ibaka blocks and changes a LOT of shots, that is good defense. That's not all there is to defense, but to say that a big man's ability to alter and blocks shots with the best of them doesn't matter is retareded

Guppyfighter
11-28-2012, 01:26 AM
LOL you are being just ridiculous.

Defense as a big man isn't all about defending a player when they back you down.

When players would drive to the hoop and they see Ibaka there, do you really think they're thinking to themselves "Oh this guy is an average one on one defender he ain't gonn play good D on me"?

Ibaka blocks and changes a LOT of shots, that is good defense. That's not all there is to defense, but to say that a big man's ability to alter and blocks shots with the best of them doesn't matter is retareded

Do you believe he was the second best defender in the NBA?

It's a strawman again. I didn't say they don't matter. But you can't judge a defender based on blocks alone, you need context.

waveycrockett
11-28-2012, 01:27 AM
He finished in second because the writers are dumb.

Clearly when they voted Chandler as DPOY

Guppyfighter
11-28-2012, 01:30 AM
Clearly when they voted Chandler as DPOY

You are right, Dwight should have won.

Gram
11-28-2012, 01:34 AM
Brook Lopez.

krisxsong
11-28-2012, 01:55 AM
Do you believe he was the second best defender in the NBA?

It's a strawman again. I didn't say they don't matter. But you can't judge a defender based on blocks alone, you need context.

No I do not and I never said anything along those lines, I was responding to this.


It's not a good indicator at all.


It's an okay indicator. I would say Ibaka is a great defensive player. Why?

One on one defense he's average to maybe a little bit above average. What makes him so special is hit help defense where he is a real swat machine.

waveycrockett
11-28-2012, 02:29 AM
According to advanced stats article from synergy or something Ibaka ranks as the 4th best defensive PF in the NBA last season. No he isn't the best defender but he is in elite territory for sure.

krisxsong
11-28-2012, 03:14 AM
According to advanced stats article from synergy or something Ibaka ranks as the 4th best defensive PF in the NBA last season. No he isn't the best defender but he is in elite territory for sure.

Forget it. He probably read this as "Ibaka gets a lot of blocks so plays good defense"

ee
11-28-2012, 04:24 AM
He finished in second because the writers are dumb.

Why even argue with a guy that post stupid crap like this?

Guppyfighter
11-28-2012, 04:43 AM
Why even argue with a guy that post stupid crap like this?

Are you suggesting he deserved second in the voting?