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View Full Version : ***Pau Gasol's Defense***



Andrew32
11-25-2012, 04:24 AM
#1. + / - numbers

Opposing teams ORTG
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court : 101
With Gasol off the court : 118

Opposing teams eFG%
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court :46%
With Gasol off the court : 56%
_______________________________________

#2. DRTG

Dwight : 100
Gasol : 103
Metta : 104
Kobe : 106
Morris : 110
_______________________________________

#3. Opponents Production / Efficiency by Position

PG : 16-PER / 48%-eFG
SG : 12-PER / 46%-eFG
SF : 13-PER / 50%-eFG
PF : 15-PER / 44%-eFG
C : 16-PER / 48%-eFG

So really... Gasol is not the root of all problems for the Lakers defense.
Infact the Lakers are better on both ends of the floor when he is playing.

lakers4sho
11-25-2012, 04:31 AM
Who does Gasol play with most of the time?

Andrew32
11-25-2012, 04:34 AM
Who does Gasol play with most of the time?
It doesn't matter.

The individual + team metrics are all saying Gasol is not this horrible sieve on defense nor is he even close to being the worst defender in the starting five.

Yet Laker fans act like he is the main reason behind their defense sucking and anytime there is a problem he is the cause.

Baller1
11-25-2012, 04:34 AM
This could have everything to do with who Gasol's playing with... Gotta look way deeper to see if Gasol deserves credit or not. Get the lineup numbers off 82games.

lakers4sho
11-25-2012, 04:38 AM
It doesn't matter.

The individual + team metrics are all saying Gasol is not this horrible sieve on defense nor is he even close to being the worst defender in the starting five.

Yes it does. Defensive numbers are often influenced by the defensive system and the 5-man units.

You claim to use stats and don't even know their implications :o

Andrew32
11-25-2012, 04:40 AM
Yes it does. Defensive numbers are often influenced by the defensive system and the 5-man units.

You claim to use stats and don't even know their implications :o

The point is I used a mix of individual and team defensive statistics and they all point to Gasol being either the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the starting 5 with Morris being by far the worst defender.

Guppyfighter
11-25-2012, 04:41 AM
http://www.82games.com/1213/12LAL12.HTM#5man

Pau Gasol's most negative defensive line up involves Nash in terms of big enough sample size to ball park it.

LAKERMANIA
11-25-2012, 04:46 AM
Yes it does. Defensive numbers are often influenced by the defensive system and the 5-man units.

You claim to use stats and don't even know their implications :o

We have a winner.

Andrew32
11-25-2012, 04:54 AM
We have a winner.

Did you not get the part where I used a mix of team and individual stats.
:facepalm:

Lets just ignore all the stats since they don't support your position though.

Donuts365
11-25-2012, 05:07 AM
the reason your stats is flawed is because of individual stats with only a 5 simple size of players take knicks for example is amares the worst defender on the floor with the starting 5 then come back in with the second unit as a center and plays better defense the defensive stats would be flawed because you're only using facts with the starting 5 rather then the other members of the knicks he plays with.

Donuts365
11-25-2012, 05:10 AM
dam my sig suppose to say nets not new york ****

Andrew32
11-25-2012, 05:24 AM
the reason your stats is flawed is because of individual stats with only a 5 simple size of players take knicks for example is amares the worst defender on the floor with the starting 5 then come back in with the second unit as a center and plays better defense the defensive stats would be flawed because you're only using facts with the starting 5 rather then the other members of the knicks he plays with.

But Gasol usually plays with those other 4 players and they all play a similar number of minutes...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-25-2012, 06:43 AM
It doesn't matter.

The individual + team metrics are all saying Gasol is not this horrible sieve on defense nor is he even close to being the worst defender in the starting five.

Yet Laker fans act like he is the main reason behind their defense sucking and anytime there is a problem he is the cause.

lol that says all:speechless:

NYKNYGNYY
11-25-2012, 07:53 AM
So many gasol threads wow

nickdymez
11-25-2012, 08:45 AM
#1. + / - numbers

Opposing teams ORTG
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court : 101
With Gasol off the court : 118

Opposing teams eFG%
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court :46%
With Gasol off the court : 56%
_______________________________________

#2. DRTG

Dwight : 100
Gasol : 103
Metta : 104
Kobe : 106
Morris : 110
_______________________________________

#3. Opponents Production / Efficiency by Position

PG : 16-PER / 48%-eFG
SG : 12-PER / 46%-eFG
SF : 13-PER / 50%-eFG
PF : 15-PER / 44%-eFG
C : 16-PER / 48%-eFG

So really... Gasol is not the root of all problems for the Lakers defense.
Infact the Lakers are better on both ends of the floor when he is playing.


This is the perfect example of why people should watch basketball games instead of relying on advanced stats to show people their knowledge of basketball.

LdotAdot
11-25-2012, 08:54 AM
Yea, it's Pau's fault that Kobe averages 3.7 to's per game.

He's a cancer. The Laker's would be undefeated without him. It doesn't matter that he's played the most minutes of all Lakers the past 3 seasons by far. He sucks.

Andrew32
11-25-2012, 09:04 AM
This is the perfect example of why people should watch basketball games instead of relying on advanced stats to show people their knowledge of basketball.

This is the perfect example of a person blindly assuming something without any reason too.

I have watched a few Laker games this year and in general my eyes told me the same thing these stats have.

Gasol is not the weak link on this team defensively.
His help defense is good (although probably weaker / less consistent then in previous years) and his m2m is good except VS quicker players who can put the ball on the floor because his mobility/quickness is not what it used to be.

Not Pau's fault if the coach is not smart enough to understand/see that and react appropriately.
Also good offensive players are usually gonna score no matter who guards them... but with Pau he gets yelled at even in those situations.

alexander_37
11-25-2012, 12:39 PM
Yes it does. Defensive numbers are often influenced by the defensive system and the 5-man units.

You claim to use stats and don't even know their implications :o

Opposing TEAM Ortg is pretty telling.

Chronz
11-25-2012, 12:42 PM
This is the perfect example of why people should watch basketball games instead of relying on advanced stats to show people their knowledge of basketball.

LOL you say that regardless of the outcome. Remember how you ran away last time you said this.

You do know its possible to watch and analyze right.

Chronz
11-25-2012, 12:51 PM
All that said, these numbers are meaningless right now but I didn't get the feeling they were this solid. Hes had mixed success in isolation tho, and his help defense sucks IMO.

Hellcrooner
11-25-2012, 12:51 PM
the thing is.
1Paus defense is better than what people credits hiim for

2 paus defnese is not at his best right now because he has tendinitis-.

3 " laker " fans are using him as the scapegoat and are nitpicking each and every thing he does, and every time his man goes by him they react like if germany had invaded poland again.
you can do that for EVERY PLAYER in the league, nitpick and overact at each bad step, and even jordan woudl look like a scrub if you do that on him.

nickdymez
11-25-2012, 01:00 PM
LOL you say that regardless of the outcome. Remember how you ran away last time you said this.

You do know its possible to watch and analyze right.

I watch every Laker game and Pau Gasol is terrible on defense. Your stats can never tell me otherwise.

Chronz
11-25-2012, 01:09 PM
I watch every Laker game and Pau Gasol is terrible on defense. Your stats can never tell me otherwise.
No doubt, like a great scholar once said, "A genius can change his mind, but you can never change the mind of an idiot". Your no idiot..... except when it comes to stats, your close mindedness and lack of perspective makes your opinion irrelevant. Thats why I brought up the last time you said it. The guy was going off what he recalled visually but the facts went against his opinion. It was the PERFECT example of how you combine analysis with stats, yet you still came out and tried to play the contrarian. Any thoughts on that?

Back to your post, heres the thing about watching the game, you have no basis for comparison unless you watch the other teams too. So its not about how many Laker games you watch, its about how much of the LEAGUE you watch. And even then your not a supercomputer so your analysis is still prone to bias and mental lapses.



I watch every Lakers game too, the difference between you and me is that I watch a **** load more games around the league and I know the value of stats.



All that said, Pau's defensive numbers as an individual arent my greatest concern, its his help defense that has me troubled. Hes not a 4-man anymore and he needs too much help IMO. So yes we can agree that Pau has been subpar defensively regardless of what the stats say. High five?

rsweene
11-25-2012, 01:18 PM
#1. + / - numbers

Opposing teams ORTG
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court : 101
With Gasol off the court : 118

Opposing teams eFG%
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court :46%
With Gasol off the court : 56%
_______________________________________

#2. DRTG

Dwight : 100
Gasol : 103
Metta : 104
Kobe : 106
Morris : 110
_______________________________________

#3. Opponents Production / Efficiency by Position

PG : 16-PER / 48%-eFG
SG : 12-PER / 46%-eFG
SF : 13-PER / 50%-eFG
PF : 15-PER / 44%-eFG
C : 16-PER / 48%-eFG

So really... Gasol is not the root of all problems for the Lakers defense.
Infact the Lakers are better on both ends of the floor when he is playing.

If you went by the numbers at 82games.com, you would think pau is better than dwight on D...

Zefflin
11-25-2012, 02:21 PM
Andrew is clearly the worst troll on psd and obviously doesn't watch or play basketball.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-25-2012, 02:39 PM
And that's why those defensive stats are dog **** they don't tell the whole story same with almost all the other advanced stats

Chronz
11-25-2012, 02:46 PM
If you went by the numbers at 82games.com, you would think pau is better than dwight on D...

rly?

Mr_Jones
11-25-2012, 03:04 PM
#1. + / - numbers

Opposing teams ORTG
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court : 101
With Gasol off the court : 118

Opposing teams eFG%
----------------------------------
With Gasol on the court :46%
With Gasol off the court : 56%
_______________________________________

#2. DRTG

Dwight : 100
Gasol : 103
Metta : 104
Kobe : 106
Morris : 110
_______________________________________

#3. Opponents Production / Efficiency by Position

PG : 16-PER / 48%-eFG
SG : 12-PER / 46%-eFG
SF : 13-PER / 50%-eFG
PF : 15-PER / 44%-eFG
C : 16-PER / 48%-eFG

So really... Gasol is not the root of all problems for the Lakers defense.
Infact the Lakers are better on both ends of the floor when he is playing.

If you just watch the game, you can tell that he's not very good. Advanced statistics are the worst ****ing thing that has happened since Vanilla Coke was discontinued. ****!

Mr_Jones
11-25-2012, 03:07 PM
Andrew is clearly the worst troll on psd and obviously doesn't watch or play basketball.

He's also a *****.

nickdymez
11-25-2012, 11:54 PM
No doubt, like a great scholar once said, "A genius can change his mind, but you can never change the mind of an idiot". Your no idiot..... except when it comes to stats, your close mindedness and lack of perspective makes your opinion irrelevant. Thats why I brought up the last time you said it. The guy was going off what he recalled visually but the facts went against his opinion. It was the PERFECT example of how you combine analysis with stats, yet you still came out and tried to play the contrarian. Any thoughts on that?

Back to your post, heres the thing about watching the game, you have no basis for comparison unless you watch the other teams too. So its not about how many Laker games you watch, its about how much of the LEAGUE you watch. And even then your not a supercomputer so your analysis is still prone to bias and mental lapses.



I watch every Lakers game too, the difference between you and me is that I watch a **** load more games around the league and I know the value of stats.



All that said, Pau's defensive numbers as an individual arent my greatest concern, its his help defense that has me troubled. Hes not a 4-man anymore and he needs too much help IMO. So yes we can agree that Pau has been subpar defensively regardless of what the stats say. High five?

Like I said, im WATCHING him play and my eyes tell me that he cant play defense. No number in the world can say otherwise to me.

nickdymez
11-25-2012, 11:54 PM
If you just watch the game, you can tell that he's not very good. Advanced statistics are the worst ****ing thing that has happened since Vanilla Coke was discontinued. ****!

:clap::clap:

Jatman20
11-26-2012, 12:27 AM
The problem is his salary of 19 mil. For that I want 20 plus pts and an 10 Rebs / game.
D'antoni if you can remember was successful in Pheonix with a small lineup with Amare as center along with small forwards and guards. 130 pts a game, running up and down the court. Small lineup is good for that....not so good for D-fensive stops. That's where Gasol does not fit in; chugging along. Sorry, Faried fits in better with that style. If this was the last yr of Gasols contract...no problem (expiring contract); but its not. Not too many teams want that contract.

tredigs
11-26-2012, 12:39 AM
Synergy also does not rank Lebron, Chris Paul or Durant as top 40 overall offensive players. So, maybe their rankings mean nothing?

LA_Raiders
11-26-2012, 02:23 AM
DPOY... lol

Gasol is great for the Lakers even if he is soft...

C-Style
11-26-2012, 03:53 AM
His defense does not consern me as much as his fg percentage...imagine Kobe shooting 38%. If he gets closer to the basket it should go back to its normal percentage and should be fine.

Alayla
11-26-2012, 04:27 PM
Gasol has too be the most disrespected player in the NBA outside of blake griffen

justinnum1
11-26-2012, 04:44 PM
Nope.

Nothing wrong with advanced stats, learn how to interpret them.

nickdymez
11-26-2012, 04:52 PM
Nope.

Nothing wrong with advanced stats, learn how to interpret them.

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESNT USE ADVANCED STATS DOESNT MEAN THAT PERSON DOESNT UNDERTSAND THE FORULAS BEHIND THEM! Jesus these advanced stat guys think they cured the common cold but only a select few get it. It isnt rocket science. :facepalm:

justinnum1
11-26-2012, 05:02 PM
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESNT USE ADVANCED STATS DOESNT MEAN THAT PERSON DOESNT UNDERTSAND THE FORULAS BEHIND THEM! Jesus these advanced stat guys think they cured the common cold but only a select few get it. It isnt rocket science. :facepalm:

Based on the responses in this thread, most don't get it.

nickdymez
11-26-2012, 05:33 PM
Based on the responses in this thread, most don't get it.

Why? Because they dont agree with you?

Money_23
11-26-2012, 06:53 PM
Why? Because they dont agree with you?

you know how people are.... if you disagree with them, then they call you stupid.