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maplecitymadman
11-24-2012, 03:20 AM
I'm very curious to read what the opinion is out there regarding my question. Simply put...How patient will you be in this "supposedly" rebuilding mode? I'm especially interested in reading what current season ticket holders think.

AI
11-24-2012, 03:28 AM
I'm not a "season ticket holder" but I'll still give you my opinion. Ultimately, every fan wants the team to be competitive every year but it's times like these that we need to swallow that pride and be patient because sustained success and consistency is more important than immediate success.

I see a wave of talent that will come up from the farm (one we haven't seen years), absolutely minimal financial commitments going forward and a FO that can basically mold this team however it wants. The Punto trade gave us a "get out of jail free card" and now we can restart again, not every team is so fortunate.

All I ask is that we be patient, this team can be scary good these next couple of years and there's a good chance we'll end up winning it all sooner rather than later if we don't panic and make reactionary moves to what other clubs are doing. Stick to the plan and reap the benefits later.

EEasyA
11-24-2012, 04:03 AM
I don't know about scary good AI but we would be ok.my opinion on rebuilding.For one season,I would reluctantly be ok with it.reason being we already pissed off four seasons of not making the playoffs,so I will accept us being a mediocre team this year and that's it.We are not the royals,astros etc.we except to contend for a championship ever year.Finally the main reason I'm against rebuilding is because none of our prospects are sure things/superstars. That's including Xander Bogaerts and Jackie Bradley.

Let's say we hold onto all our prospects and go into a full rebuild mode or close to it for three years and all we do is win 79 to 89 games and get bounced in the first round.What good does it do us.We are not contending for a championship do not trust prospects.Prospects should be used as 1. To help build your team into a contending team or Trade Bait.As much as we all like and hope all our prospects turn into superstars,few make it.Perfect example iglesias.

Bo Sox Fan
11-24-2012, 04:36 AM
The only reason we're in this mess is because of the Carl Crawford contract, and to a lesser extent Jon Lackey.

I waited three flippin years in anticipation to see Adrian Gonzalez in a Red Sox uniform, than it actually happened and he raked in the short time he was here.

I could still live with Beckett (or chances are we would have dealt him and his remaining contract at last years trade deadline) either way, Theo Epstein and that Crawford contract cost us A-Gon and the prospects to get him simply because he vastly overpaid for a luxury in CC, not a need.

Makes Lackey and his contract look irrelevant really.

LA Sox Fan
11-24-2012, 11:30 AM
I'm not a "season ticket holder" but I'll still give you my opinion. Ultimately, every fan wants the team to be competitive every year but it's times like these that we need to swallow that pride and be patient because sustained success and consistency is more important than immediate success.

I see a wave of talent that will come up from the farm (one we haven't seen years), absolutely minimal financial commitments going forward and a FO that can basically mold this team however it wants. The Punto trade gave us a "get out of jail free card" and now we can restart again, not every team is so fortunate.

All I ask is that we be patient, this team can be scary good these next couple of years and there's a good chance we'll end up winning it all sooner rather than later if we don't panic and make reactionary moves to what other clubs are doing. Stick to the plan and reap the benefits later.

Completely agree with this. It's not like the Sox are going to stop spending money. They're hopefully just going to be way smarter than they have been recently as far as how to allocate those funds. Giving massive $$$ and years to guys entering the wrong side of their careers (keeping in mind that in the semi-post-PED era those wrong sides are coming sooner) isn't usually a good strategy. It's especially not so in a weak FA class like we have this offseason.

I know that may make for a boring offseason for those of us minding the hot stove, but after everything that's gone on with this organization in the last few years, I think maybe a smartly executed and fairly quiet offseason is exactly what the doctor ordered.

EEasyA
11-24-2012, 12:14 PM
True but a quiet offseason gets you no where but sitting at home watching the playoffs.We have a lot of holes in this team that prospects alone can't fix.what we need is not to hand out 6 or 7 year contracts to players.I really don't mind the money.Just keep the years down.If we get Hamilton for 4 to 5 years and napoli for 3 to 4,I do it.

BostonSports96
11-24-2012, 02:27 PM
I want to see some kind of trade (one that doesn't ruin the future, though). That means no Stanton, and most likely no Trumbo, Upton or Cabrera either.

Royals are having a fire sale (Hosmer, Butler, Moustakas, Gordon, Myers) and I want one of them.

I'll be patient, but if Cherington and the FO thinks this horrid free agent class can fix this team, they are crazy.

These small signings (i.e. Ross and Gomes) I think are good for us. They both bring experience, leadership and decent production on the short term.

AI
11-24-2012, 02:34 PM
Royals are not having a fire sale. You need to do your research before you post these absurb things

BostonSports96
11-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Royals are not having a fire sale. You need to do your research before you post these absurb things

Every one of those guys is being shopped.

Not all of them will be traded, but I bet some will.

AI
11-24-2012, 03:04 PM
Every one of those guys is being shopped.

Not all of them will be traded, but I bet some will.

Do you even know what "fire sale" means?


The Royals would "much prefer" to trade prospects to acquire starting pitching and don't want to move Wil Myers or any of their top regulars, tweets Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star. The Royals are "willing to listen," however.

Thank you, come again.

BostonSports96
11-24-2012, 03:10 PM
Do you even know what "fire sale" means?

Yes, it means trading everyone. I should have used a better word choice.

But they are making a lot of talent available on the market.


Thank you, come again.

Guess what? There are many other reports saying that they are listening on every player they have, including Myers.

Myers and their "regulars" also bring back the best talent haul, especially for starting pitching.

Thank you, come again.

ben_watson_84
11-24-2012, 09:20 PM
I read they didn't want to trade their regulars because they are on team friendly contracts.. and they would move Myers if it landed them a number one starter. If they are shopping any of the players above (which I doubt), I would like Hosmer at 1B, but since it's going to take alot to acquire him. I'm holding out for Napoli on a 3 year contract.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 12:47 AM
I read they didn't want to trade their regulars because they are on team friendly contracts.. and they would move Myers if it landed them a number one starter. If they are shopping any of the players above (which I doubt), I would like Hosmer at 1B, but since it's going to take alot to acquire him. I'm holding out for Napoli on a 3 year contract.

Like I said, most probably won't get traded, but I've seen a couple reports suggesting that all of the players listed are either on the block or are being gauged for interest.

Towelie
11-25-2012, 03:59 PM
Yes, it means trading everyone. I should have used a better word choice.

But they are making a lot of talent available on the market.



Guess what? There are many other reports saying that they are listening on every player they have, including Myers.

Myers and their "regulars" also bring back the best talent haul, especially for starting pitching.

Thank you, come again.

You're very wrong. They're spending money, and trying to get better not fire sale.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 04:07 PM
You're very wrong. They're spending money, and trying to get better not fire sale.

How are they spending money? Because they re-signed Guthrie? That's one player, and it was their own free agent.

And I pointed out that fire sale wasn't the right word. They are gauging interest on their players, and if the right deal comes along they'll pull the trigger.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 04:10 PM
You're very wrong. They're spending money, and trying to get better not fire sale.

Source?

Also, how do you improve your rotation best? Through trade. They would get a great haul back for Myers.

My source was Passan, who I trust.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 04:17 PM
Thank you, come again.

I also love how you left out the last sentence of this quote:

"We heard earlier tonight that K.C. was shopping some of its top position players in search of frontline pitchers." MLBTR

homie564
11-25-2012, 04:34 PM
yes but a "fire sale" is when a team trades their players for prospects (miami)... No when a team trades their prospects for front end starters... The red sox probably don't even have a starter to interest KC enough to move Myers. Perhaps Lester would interest them, but I wouldn't see them moving Myers for him.

Nomar
11-25-2012, 05:36 PM
Buchholz + Webster for Myers may spark their interest a bit.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 06:31 PM
Buchholz + Webster for Myers may spark their interest a bit.

WTF.

This is exactly what I said we should do yesterday before everyone took a **** on me.

bagwell368
11-25-2012, 06:32 PM
Unless otherwise indicated KC is in the position of wannabe team. Whenever they have a good amount of good players, they've got to deal some, let others walk for a pick, and least likely of all is retain really good FA's.

This means they must always listen and anybody paying above a fair share is likely to get who they want. Gordon is my idea of a guy that can work here, has control and might not cost an insane amount if you can get them to take a body or two off of the 40 man.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 06:36 PM
Unless otherwise indicated KC is in the position of wannabe team. Whenever they have a good amount of good players, they've got to deal some, let others walk for a pick, and least likely of all is retain really good FA's.

This means they must always listen and anybody paying above a fair share is likely to get who they want.

Butler and Hosmer will be useless if we (and we probably will) sign Napoli.

We still need a RF. I'd like Gordon because he's a lefty and we could get him for Buccholz/Lester straight up. Myers would be good too though.

bosox3431
11-25-2012, 06:46 PM
No way I would trade lester for Gordon straight up

goshhhjosh
11-25-2012, 06:51 PM
The Punto trade gave us a "get out of jail free card" and now we can restart again, not every team is so fortunate.

Haha, awesome that you're calling it the Punto trade. I heard the Dodgers wouldn't make the trade unless Punto was included ;)

bagwell368
11-25-2012, 07:32 PM
No way I would trade lester for Gordon straight up

Agreed.

But I would trade Buchholz, WIlson, De La Cruz, Brentz, Lavarnway for Gordon and Salvador Perez in a microsecond.

Nomar
11-25-2012, 07:41 PM
Agreed.

But I would trade Buchholz, WIlson, De La Cruz, Brentz, Lavarnway for Gordon and Salvador Perez in a microsecond.

Hell yeah. If Perez learns to walk he'll be a freak. He's already great defensively.

BostonSports96
11-25-2012, 08:55 PM
Agreed.

But I would trade Buchholz, WIlson, De La Cruz, Brentz, Lavarnway for Gordon and Salvador Perez in a microsecond.

:pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

homie564
11-25-2012, 11:46 PM
Buchholz + Webster for Myers may spark their interest a bit.

unless I'm missing one, I can't remember the last time a team traded a package for a prospect.

Nomar
11-26-2012, 12:00 AM
unless I'm missing one, I can't remember the last time a team traded a package for a prospect.

Thats true i cant really either. Unless it was prospect for prospect (Jesus Montero).

homie564
11-26-2012, 01:10 PM
Thats true i cant really either. Unless it was prospect for prospect (Jesus Montero).

right, even that is pretty rare though

-Lavigne43-
11-26-2012, 07:13 PM
I think people underestimate how difficult it is to rebuild into a great team, rather than a good team. To get long term success you need a great, long term controlled core to build around, something that is extremely hard to do. You don't rebuild through free agency unless you can get an elite young player (think Harper/Trout if they become free agents at the earliest opportunity) to build around. Older free agents are almost always on the decline or about to start their decline. Through trade you have to pretty much sell your farm for one single piece if they are established, which leaves you with one player to build around, or get lucky on a trade for prospects.

To make the playoffs next year we'd have to be pretty damn lucky. Lester bounces back, Buccholz is good, Lackey is good, Doubront improves, Rubby/Webster/off season acquisition meets expectations, the offense continues to be top 5 in baseball, 2 of Bailey, Bard, Tazawa, mystery man pitch great in the pen. Signing someone like Hamilton long term might be exciting at first, but it's idiotic when you are stuck with someone who seems like the perfect candidate for rapid decline, and the odds your team is good enough to make the playoffs while he is still an elite player are small.

StryderSox
11-28-2012, 02:16 PM
To be honest I like a lot of the things the Red Sox have done this offseason thus far and are rumoured to be looking into. Will it be a boring offseason by RedSox standards if we continue at this pace??? Absolutely but making a splash like Josh Hamilton is waht got us into this mess in the first place. The guys they are bringing in and are rumoured to be looking at are character players or are young studs that are under longterm team control. They aren't looking for the best players and the biggest names but at the best value players. When you combine these kind of moves with the young talent we have coming up from the farm it reminds me alot of how the 04-07 teams were built before we started trying to outspend the Yankees in Free Agency. We need young talent to build around combined with a few "fun" veterans that can help keep the atmosphere light in a clubhouse that has seen more drama than the Jersey Shore Beach House over the past two years.

Be patient and take comfort in the fact that if we stick to the plan we will most likely not make the playoffs in 2013 but will have a strong foundation to building a very good team for 2014 and beyond.