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View Full Version : Does Kobe's increased efficiency actually hurt his team?



lakers4sho
11-22-2012, 04:08 PM
It's no secret that Kobe's having one of his most efficient (start to a) season as of now, all that while still putting up big scoring numbers, assists, rebounds, as well as shooting the ball at a nice %.

Yet it is also no secret that the Lakers as a team are having a very rough start. Despite having multiple all stars Howard and Pau, and improved Ron Artest, Jamison and surprise role player Jordan Hill off the bench, the Lakers are barely hovering around .500. They have not won a road game this season yet.

Is Kobe doing too much at the expense of his team?

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

Sactown
11-22-2012, 04:13 PM
Honestly watching them yesterday it looks like they're playing to fast, which doesn't always allow them to utilize the talent they have down low. Dwight shooting 4 times is just inexcusable especially when the Kings bigs were in foul trouble. Kobe played out of his mind, but when you're beating an opponent down low you have to keep going there, especially when you absolutely have a mismatch. Kobe did go off against us, but our best defenders made him turn the ball over quite a bit..

Conclusion, slow the game down, play inside out and more movement from the wing players, less ISO.
And No Kobe has been fantastic shooting the ball, but needs to dump it in more on the inside and less looking for his own.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-22-2012, 04:18 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

Alayla
11-22-2012, 04:19 PM
That literately makes NO sense at all.

LAKERMANIA
11-22-2012, 04:21 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

How dare you argue that advanced stats could have some flaws! BLASPHEMY!!! BAN THIS FOOL!!!!

Sactown
11-22-2012, 04:24 PM
Seriously think it's the up pace style of game they're playing, pretty much makes Dwights defense useless when you're allowing the other teams guards to break out, also the turnovers killed them last night

Minimal
11-22-2012, 04:25 PM
******** increased efficiency can't hurt the team. But I think they need to utilize Howard and Pau much more.

GREATNESS ONE
11-22-2012, 04:29 PM
:laugh:

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-22-2012, 04:30 PM
******** increased efficiency can't hurt the team. But I think they need to utilize Howard and Pau much more.

Last night was the only exception. Prior to that, they were getting fed the ball consistently.

Iggz53
11-22-2012, 04:38 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

Sure, except that he has the highest +/- in the NBA so, wrong.

Bruno
11-22-2012, 04:54 PM
the 6-6 record is deceiving. LAL is still top seven in SRS, and had respectable SRS before yesterday. without Kobes increased efficiency, LAL might only have a couple wins on the season.

the laker starters have been dominant. they're leading the league in +/-.

shep33
11-22-2012, 05:14 PM
I don't think so. Howard looked pretty passive (perhaps because he was tired) last night. It's not like Kobe shot the ball too much (he made 11 of his 19 attempts). Kobe is shooting the ball 17.8 times this year. To put that in perspective:

1) that's 4.2 shots less than last year
2) this is the lowest fga in 12 years for Kobe


Kobe's averaging 27.3 ppg on 17.8 fga, while also bringing in 5+ rebounds and assists and 1.5 spg.

He's without a doubt been the best SG this season.

Greedy22
11-22-2012, 05:17 PM
******** increased efficiency can't hurt the team. But I think they need to utilize Howard and Pau much more. agree with the first part and for the 2nd Howard definitely needs the ball more, but no thanks on Pau, he's become a set shooter from 15-20 feet and doesn't utilize his post game skills.

Greedy22
11-22-2012, 05:18 PM
I don't think so. Howard looked pretty passive (perhaps because he was tired) last night. It's not like Kobe shot the ball too much (he made 11 of his 19 attempts). Kobe is shooting the ball 17.8 times this year. To put that in perspective:

1) that's 4.2 shots less than last year
2) this is the lowest fga in 12 years for Kobe


Kobe's averaging 27.3 ppg on 17.8 fga, while also bringing in 5+ rebounds and assists and 1.5 spg.

He's without a doubt been the best SG this season. one could argue he's been the best player thus far as well.

Sactown
11-22-2012, 05:24 PM
If Kobe continues, he's obviously an MVP candidate, his efficiency has been superb

Money_23
11-22-2012, 05:26 PM
looks like Kobe is just flat out cursed. When he shoots less efficiently and wins championships, people complain about his efficiency. When he plays efficiently(taking 6 less shots a game and scoring the same points as last season) and his team doesn't win, people say he doesn't get his teammates involved.
Clearly Kobe is the issue here.































sarcasm.

Frezhnitz
11-22-2012, 05:26 PM
it cause, lakers turn the ball over too much, no defense, bench sucks, dwight cant hit free throws.

Ebbs
11-22-2012, 05:26 PM
Kobe is keeping them in games lol. He's playing the best he can play. They just need to put it all togethet

shep33
11-22-2012, 05:41 PM
No point guard is killing us right now. Imagine any team without their 1st or 2nd string pg, it's going to effect them.

Take out Deron and Cj for the Nets, CP3 and Bledsoe, Rondo and Barbosa/Bradley, etc. We're relying on a 2nd round player from last year's draft, and Chris Duhon to lead the squad in a point guard drive offense.

lakers4sho
11-22-2012, 05:49 PM
No point guard is killing us right now. Imagine any team without their 1st or 2nd string pg, it's going to effect them.

Take out Deron and Cj for the Nets, CP3 and Bledsoe, Rondo and Barbosa/Bradley, etc. We're relying on a 2nd round player from last year's draft, and Chris Duhon to lead the squad in a point guard drive offense.

well Kobe for the most part has been orchestrating the offense

GREATNESS ONE
11-22-2012, 05:57 PM
Yeah but Kobe and Nash would make the offense run so much more efficient, there wouldn't be such a drop-off in production and game flow. Plus the combination of Nash and Howard on the pick n roll has the potential to be the most dangerous attack and we are missing it desperately right now.

bucketss
11-22-2012, 06:10 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

so you want kobe to miss more shots so the lakers can win? HAHA

Lim
11-22-2012, 06:11 PM
his efficiency isnt hurting them.. its the fact that hes jacking up so many shots when he has so many weapons on his team(he has been great so far this season but according to history, his FG% will go DOWN and his FG per game will go UP). this has been a problem for the lakers the past 2-3 seasons.. no reason to be shooting so many shots when you have dwight , pau, bynum, odom on your team the past 2-3 seasons.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-22-2012, 06:35 PM
so you want kobe to miss more shots so the lakers can win? HAHA

Exactly.

#kobesystem

C-Style
11-22-2012, 06:38 PM
his efficiency isnt hurting them.. its the fact that hes jacking up so many shots when he has so many weapons on his team(he has been great so far this season but according to history, his FG% will go DOWN and his FG per game will go UP). this has been a problem for the lakers the past 2-3 seasons.. no reason to be shooting so many shots when you have dwight , pau, bynum, odom on your team the past 2-3 seasons.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

RLundi
11-22-2012, 07:17 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

You can't be serious. Clearly there are other factors to consider but your cynicism is duly noted.

beliges
11-22-2012, 07:21 PM
Dwight is playing at about 75%, they're bench is just awful and they have no point guard. This is what's killing this team. Kobe has actually been.just phenomenal this season and is having a better 17th season than his previous two. To still be improving at this stage in his career is remarkable and by far he is having the greatest 17th season in league history.

lakers4sho
11-22-2012, 07:29 PM
his efficiency isnt hurting them.. its the fact that hes jacking up so many shots when he has so many weapons on his team(he has been great so far this season but according to history, his FG% will go DOWN and his FG per game will go UP). this has been a problem for the lakers the past 2-3 seasons.. no reason to be shooting so many shots when you have dwight , pau, bynum, odom on your team the past 2-3 seasons.

but "jacking more shots" = 5 rings (2 if you want to count out ones with Shaq)

historic lows on FGA, USG, better teammates (Howard, Jamison, Nash) = barely .500 basketball

their bench isn't that much worse than the last 2 years either

RLundi
11-22-2012, 07:36 PM
but "jacking more shots" = 5 rings (2 if you want to count out ones with Shaq)

historic lows on FGA, USG, better teammates (Howard, Jamison, Nash) = barely .500 basketball

their bench isn't that much better than the last 2 years either

Lol it's been 12 games. How about accounting for 3 different coaches, Dwight not being 100%, Nash being 25%, absurdly bad defense and a general lack of cohesion that comes with unfamiliarity?

If Kobe still has these great numbers mid-season and all the things I listed have been shored up, LA should be among the best in the league.

JasonJohnHorn
11-22-2012, 07:44 PM
On paper I'm inclined to say no, but looking at the team's record, what else can you say?

Last night was an interesting example. Kobe had 20 shots. That is not an unreasonable ammount of shots. Gasol and MWP each got 10 I believe, and Dwight, who lead the team in minutes played, only got 4 shots? That's weird. The Laker have to find a way to get everybody involved. I mean, the night before Dwight was 8/11 from the field. When you have a guy that can shoot over 60% on a given night, you want to get him the ball.

I'm sure some of these issues will be resolved when Nash comes back though.

Sactown
11-22-2012, 07:52 PM
They're 25th in turnovers which is allowing teams to get out on the break. They aren't valuing the ball and they're not sharing it either ranking 22nd in assist, and that's their problem and it starts with the guards getting back in transition.
Has nothing to do with Kobe's shooting, more like his and the teams handling of the ball.

shep33
11-22-2012, 09:26 PM
They're 25th in turnovers which is allowing teams to get out on the break. They aren't valuing the ball and they're not sharing it either ranking 22nd in assist, and that's their problem and it starts with the guards getting back in transition.
Has nothing to do with Kobe's shooting, more like his and the teams handling of the ball.

I think a lot of the turnovers have to do with us running an offense that was stupid (Princeton), and then switching to a new offense (D'antoni's), and then not having Nash or Blake for most of the season.

shep33
11-22-2012, 09:29 PM
his efficiency isnt hurting them.. its the fact that hes jacking up so many shots when he has so many weapons on his team(he has been great so far this season but according to history, his FG% will go DOWN and his FG per game will go UP). this has been a problem for the lakers the past 2-3 seasons.. no reason to be shooting so many shots when you have dwight , pau, bynum, odom on your team the past 2-3 seasons.

Disagree. He's shooting the ball like 5 times less than last season, and the its the lowest fga he's had in 12 years.

His assists are also up.

Truth is, other guys aren't playing well. Pau in particular has struggled big time. Jamison hasn't done anything, Meeks finally played well yesterday (had no confidence under Brown), Duhon and Morris are 3rd and 4th string point guards...

lakers4sho
11-22-2012, 09:32 PM
Disagree. He's shooting the ball like 5 times less than last season, and the its the lowest fga he's had in 12 years.

His assists are also up.

Truth is, other guys aren't playing well. Pau in particular has struggled big time. Jamison hasn't done anything, Meeks finally played well yesterday (had no confidence under Brown), Duhon and Morris are 3rd and 4th string point guards...

same with USG rate

bholly
11-22-2012, 09:43 PM
Huge lol at the idea that his efficiency is hurting them.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 10:08 PM
So you think the Lakers would be better off if Kobe missed more shots? LMFAO

Can one of you statisticians tell me how Kobe missing more shots is suppose to improve their laughable defensive start?


Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

You better call the NBA bro, tell them you have this **** all figured out.

GREATNESS ONE
11-22-2012, 10:10 PM
^ llullz

Chronz
11-22-2012, 10:12 PM
but "jacking more shots" = 5 rings (2 if you want to count out ones with Shaq)
It also equaled first round exits. Point?


historic lows on FGA, USG, better teammates (Howard, Jamison, Nash) = barely .500 basketball

Defense?


their bench isn't that much worse than the last 2 years either
Then why are the Lakers falling apart when Kobe sits? They fall apart worse than his 35PPG campaign thus far.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 10:13 PM
They're 25th in turnovers which is allowing teams to get out on the break. They aren't valuing the ball and they're not sharing it either ranking 22nd in assist, and that's their problem and it starts with the guards getting back in transition.
Has nothing to do with Kobe's shooting, more like his and the teams handling of the ball.

This is where Kobe running the point may be hurting them. Hes never been an elite passer ala Bron/Tmac/Wade.

Tysons_Beard
11-22-2012, 10:21 PM
yea how does this make any sense?

Money_23
11-22-2012, 10:36 PM
his efficiency isnt hurting them.. its the fact that hes jacking up so many shots when he has so many weapons on his team(he has been great so far this season but according to history, his FG% will go DOWN and his FG per game will go UP). this has been a problem for the lakers the past 2-3 seasons.. no reason to be shooting so many shots when you have dwight , pau, bynum, odom on your team the past 2-3 seasons.

1st 12 games in 2010-2011: 20 FGA on 44.5%FG ended up with 20FGA on 45.1%fg
1st 12 games in 2011-2012: 24FGA on 46%FG ended up with 23FGA on 43%FG

even in 2009-2010: he started with 24FGA and ended up with 21-22 FGA.

what history has shown us that he takes more shots as the season progresses? In fact he has taken less shots as the season progresses and his FG% drops 1-2% on average. The only history you mentioned is the delusions in your head.

Andrew32
11-22-2012, 10:39 PM
Kobe has been good for the most part however he needs to consistently keep Dwight and Pau fed.

Last night for example he had a great individual game but he didn't feed the post enough.
Dwight taking only 4 shots is unacceptable!

LaLa_Land
11-22-2012, 10:40 PM
No point guard is killing us right now. Imagine any team without their 1st or 2nd string pg, it's going to effect them.

Take out Deron and Cj for the Nets, CP3 and Bledsoe, Rondo and Barbosa/Bradley, etc. We're relying on a 2nd round player from last year's draft, and Chris Duhon to lead the squad in a point guard drive offense.

Completely agree. Super excited to see Nash at full strength. He will assuredly make the bench better. Blake has been very serviceable on defense, and he's another shooter to space the floor. Those two back will allow our roster to finally play together.

Two keys to the season:
Can MWP continue to play at a high level, and gun from three?
Can anyone find Jamison? Has he been abducted?

koreancabbage
11-22-2012, 10:42 PM
one could argue he's been the best player thus far as well.

Durant says otherwise.

SundaeBest
11-22-2012, 10:42 PM
Honestly watching them yesterday it looks like they're playing to fast, which doesn't always allow them to utilize the talent they have down low. Dwight shooting 4 times is just inexcusable especially when the Kings bigs were in foul trouble. Kobe played out of his mind, but when you're beating an opponent down low you have to keep going there, especially when you absolutely have a mismatch. Kobe did go off against us, but our best defenders made him turn the ball over quite a bit..

Conclusion, slow the game down, play inside out and more movement from the wing players, less ISO.
And No Kobe has been fantastic shooting the ball, but needs to dump it in more on the inside and less looking for his own.

While I agree with you on slowing the game down an the lakers having an advantage down low, you cant put that on Kobe, he was dishing the ball, but Howard couldn't make anything happen or get open...Gasol would get the ball down low and swing it out to Meta. Kobe was drawing so much attention but it seemed like D12 just couldn't get open, I even saw Kb dish to Hill a couple times cause Dwight was just sationary...you can't blame Kobe for other guys not hustling to get open....and how about we lost that game because our bigs got out hustled by smaller bigs in the paint.....lots of blame to go around, but to blame Kobe for everything is redicukus!

Andrew32
11-22-2012, 10:45 PM
People need to understand that it is the responsibility of the guards/wings to keep the big people fed.

That is why Phil used to get so mad at Kobe when he would ISO for ages and forget to feed the Shaqster.

Money_23
11-22-2012, 10:47 PM
It also equaled first round exits. Point?

I think what people are really saying is: people have always criticized Kobe for shooting too much and not getting his teammates involved, so he's a team cancer and the team is better off without Kobe than with him.
He is just pointing out that he was able to still make championship runs while being a "team cancer" 2 to 5 times. So those same critics are insinuating that those same championship teams could have won more than 5 without Kobe as a starter.
What he is saying is that maybe, just maybe, Kobe being a "team cancer" is just an overreacted statement because of the image people have labelled him. Perhaps him not sharing the ball as much as he should is not the biggest issue.


Defense?

not really an individual issue on Kobe's part. The overall defense of the team is just bad and lazy.
But I don't even think the defense is the biggest issue. Getting teammates to make their easy shots is an issue.
.

b@llhog24
11-22-2012, 10:52 PM
Durant says otherwise.

Did he tell him about Chris Paul?

b@llhog24
11-22-2012, 10:54 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

It's almost sad how you guys wake up and think about this.

b@llhog24
11-22-2012, 10:56 PM
Offense isn't the Lakers problem, they just can't stop anyone.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 10:59 PM
Lets consider the facts instead of simply correlating whatever we want with no kind of analysis.

In the last 3 years the Lakers offense has never produced at this high a level with Kobe on the floor. If you go back 6 years the Lakers offense has only produced at a comparable level once (his first championship season). Let that sink in.


I think Kobe is doing his part given that hes already handling the load that Nash was suppose to relieve him of, lets try to find someone more credible to blame.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 11:06 PM
I think what people are really saying is: people have always criticized Kobe for shooting too much and not getting his teammates involved, so he's a team cancer and the team is better off without Kobe than with him.
I dont blame any player for his play style, but whatever complaint people have can still ring true, regardless of this thread.


He is just pointing out that he was able to still make championship runs while being a "team cancer" 2 to 5 times. So those same critics are insinuating that those same championship teams could have won more than 5 without Kobe as a starter.
I dont think anyone has ever insinuated that. EVER. And even if they did, why would you make a thread to respond to such a small portion of the populace who obviously dont understand the game? Isnt it more relevant to target whatever fair criticism there is. I honestly dont think you know the OP's intention because this would be too childish, even for him.

And I dont know about how people come to the conclusion of a player being a cancer but by my definition, I know of several cancers who won titles. Kobe is not on their level of detrimental ball if at all. He can chuck abit much at times but thats not the same thing as being a cancer unless your really inefficient, which Kobe never was.



not really an individual issue on Kobe's part. The overall defense of the team is just bad and lazy.
Never said it was.



But I don't even think the defense is the biggest issue. Getting teammates to make their easy shots is an issue.
This makes no sense, their defense is less efficient than their offense. I do agree their offense needs to be elite to win it all, and it hasnt been that great overall but their defense has been worse. No doubt about it.

But the real problem is that the team utterly falls apart without Kobe. IMO I think it has to do with he and Pau getting alot of rest together. The lineups that feature only Dwight havent fared well, and Pau is the only other star who really knows most of the teammates. I think he should get the bulk of the 2nd unit minutes. At least until Dwight gets up to speed.

Hawkeye15
11-23-2012, 12:22 AM
No offense, but the OP's statement/question is the most moronic thing I have ever heard.

"My superstar is TOO efficient, is that bad?"

really?

Toxeryll
11-23-2012, 01:00 AM
lol what. that doesnt make sense

Mr_Jones
11-23-2012, 01:13 AM
This is almost like saying, "Is Kobe too good for his team?"

I'm a *****.

kblo247
11-23-2012, 01:25 AM
:speechless:
No offense, but the OP's statement/question is the most moronic thing I have ever heard.

"My superstar is TOO efficient, is that bad?"

really?

Someone missed he trolling.,

Inefficient, chuck, I shoot when I want Kobe .... 5 rings

I think that was what 4sho went for, pure satire

That said Pau needs to be ducking shot. I ain't never seen someone clang so many mid range shots with no one with in 10 feet. Even Metta is a better shooter and third option than him right now, and sadly he's the one being defended out of him and Pau :facepalm:

lakers4sho
11-23-2012, 01:34 AM
Someone missed he trolling.,

:speechless:

GREATNESS ONE
11-23-2012, 01:35 AM
:p

Sactown
11-23-2012, 01:38 AM
Honestly watching them yesterday it looks like they're playing to fast, which doesn't always allow them to utilize the talent they have down low. Dwight shooting 4 times is just inexcusable especially when the Kings bigs were in foul trouble. Kobe played out of his mind, but when you're beating an opponent down low you have to keep going there, especially when you absolutely have a mismatch. Kobe did go off against us, but our best defenders made him turn the ball over quite a bit..

Conclusion, slow the game down, play inside out and more movement from the wing players, less ISO.
And No Kobe has been fantastic shooting the ball, but needs to dump it in more on the inside and less looking for his own.

While I agree with you on slowing the game down an the lakers having an advantage down low, you cant put that on Kobe, he was dishing the ball, but Howard couldn't make anything happen or get open...Gasol would get the ball down low and swing it out to Meta. Kobe was drawing so much attention but it seemed like D12 just couldn't get open, I even saw Kb dish to Hill a couple times cause Dwight was just sationary...you can't blame Kobe for other guys not hustling to get open....and how about we lost that game because our bigs got out hustled by smaller bigs in the paint.....lots of blame to go around, but to blame Kobe for everything is redicukus! I wasn't blaming Kobe but the entire offense they're in the bottom 5 in turnovers and bottom 10 in assist that's clearly the issue teams are getting to many easy buckets on turnovers. Interior passing must improve

Sactown
11-23-2012, 01:41 AM
They're 25th in turnovers which is allowing teams to get out on the break. They aren't valuing the ball and they're not sharing it either ranking 22nd in assist, and that's their problem and it starts with the guards getting back in transition.
Has nothing to do with Kobe's shooting, more like his and the teams handling of the ball.

This is where Kobe running the point may be hurting them. Hes never been an elite passer ala Bron/Tmac/Wade. exactly and turnovers lead to points which hurts their defense, they aren't passing the ball well and they're allowing fast break points and those are the two big issues. Honestly they should slow down the pace and bang inside and kick out, get other teams in foul trouble.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-23-2012, 02:05 AM
:speechless:

Someone missed he trolling.,

Inefficient, chuck, I shoot when I want Kobe .... 5 rings

I think that was what 4sho went for, pure satire

That said Pau needs to be ducking shot. I ain't never seen someone clang so many mid range shots with no one with in 10 feet. Even Metta is a better shooter and third option than him right now, and sadly he's the one being defended out of him and Pau :facepalm:

These Kobephobes know when statements and posts are made jokingly, but yet they will still interpret those posts at face value.


Like for my post for instance. I think about 5 or 6 idiots took that literally, and one of those idiots (not to be named but you will notice) took my post and made it as his sig.

Money_23
11-23-2012, 02:07 AM
These Kobephobes know when statements and posts are made jokingly, but yet they will still interpret those posts at face value.


Like for my post for instance. I think about 5 or 6 idiots took that literally, and one of those idiots (not to be named but you will notice) took my post and made it as his sig.

I got a question concerning your username. Are you a fortune teller? :)

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-23-2012, 02:14 AM
I got a question concerning your username. Are you a fortune teller? :)

I couldn't predict the Nash acquisition, so no. ;)

Hawkeye15
11-23-2012, 02:36 AM
:speechless:

Someone missed he trolling.,

Inefficient, chuck, I shoot when I want Kobe .... 5 rings

I think that was what 4sho went for, pure satire

That said Pau needs to be ducking shot. I ain't never seen someone clang so many mid range shots with no one with in 10 feet. Even Metta is a better shooter and third option than him right now, and sadly he's the one being defended out of him and Pau :facepalm:

what?

Money_23
11-23-2012, 02:40 AM
what?

I think what they are trying to say is that this thread was made in a jokingly manner, since the Lakers are no better, record wise, whether Kobe shoots 45% or whether he shoots 55%.

kblo247
11-23-2012, 03:24 AM
what?

4sho was joking.

He was basically saying the stats guy argument was wrong. Kobe has been insanely efficient, but it isn't winning games. Kobe being inefficient, chucking, and taking guys "out of rhythm" resulted in 5 rings though so he should just do Kobe and what brought him to the dance.

It was trolling, Kobe system style. That is the explanation. It was mor Ron less to show that the straw man, be a team guy, shoot less analysis is a joke more or less in terms of tangible results as opposed to the status quo

You're welcome :cool:

Lim
11-23-2012, 03:31 AM
1st 12 games in 2010-2011: 20 FGA on 44.5%FG ended up with 20FGA on 45.1%fg
1st 12 games in 2011-2012: 24FGA on 46%FG ended up with 23FGA on 43%FG

even in 2009-2010: he started with 24FGA and ended up with 21-22 FGA.

what history has shown us that he takes more shots as the season progresses? In fact he has taken less shots as the season progresses and his FG% drops 1-2% on average. The only history you mentioned is the delusions in your head.

uhh he hasn't ever come close to shooting 50% , yet you think he will suddenly shoot only 1-2% lower than 53% at age 34??? as for fg per game the last 8 seasons he has shot 20+ times a game. I don't see any reason why that would change this year.

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 05:33 AM
Durant says otherwise.

Care to share why?

Kobe has him beat in W/S, W/S48, PER, TS%, eFG%, and FG%

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 05:36 AM
Did he tell him about Chris Paul?

Kobe has been better than him thus far as well.

MintBerryCrunch
11-23-2012, 06:26 AM
it's been 12 games people.. Chill

Gram
11-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Kobe Bryant.

mightybosstone
11-23-2012, 10:23 AM
Holy ****. There are SIX ****ing Kobe threads on the front page of the main forum!?!? Why the hell do we even have a Lakers forum or mods? This is just crazy overkill...

Supa
11-23-2012, 10:37 AM
Is Kobe doing too much at the expense of his team?

This post is doing too much at the expense of NBA forum readers' time.

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Pluvious
11-23-2012, 12:38 PM
Colby is shooting 53% from the field, 42% from 3pt range and 88% from the line.


I thought efficiency, a high TS% and less FGAs was supposed to lead to winning games and a better record?

Guess that theory goes out the window doesn't it?

Nevermind. Apparently he was joking.

Money_23
11-23-2012, 12:49 PM
uhh he hasn't ever come close to shooting 50% , yet you think he will suddenly shoot only 1-2% lower than 53% at age 34??? as for fg per game the last 8 seasons he has shot 20+ times a game. I don't see any reason why that would change this year.

but you said history has shown us that he attempts more shots as the season goes on while his efficiency drops significantly. I simply said you are wrong in that regard.

Pluvious
11-23-2012, 12:51 PM
The team lacked energy. The bigs especially. That's why they lost. Up until the SAC game the team has been winning consistently since Brown was fired.

Kobe is having a great season and is one of the top 2-3 players in the league right now. However, playing the pg role exclusively for 38+ minutes per game is putting too much on him. He is bringing the ball up the court and initiating everything when he is in. That will not work consistently.

Money_23
11-23-2012, 12:53 PM
The team lacked energy. The bigs especially. That's why they lost. Up until the SAC game the team has been winning consistently since Brown was fired.

Kobe is having a great season and is one of the top 2-3 players in the league right now. However, playing the pg role exclusively for 38+ minutes per game is putting too much on him. He is bringing the ball up the court and initiating everything when he is in. That will not work consistently.

yes, having to facilitate and having to be your team's primary scorer is really tough at his age and mileage. No way his body can handle this for a whole season. Hopefully Nash gets back very soon.

Auseranami
11-23-2012, 01:15 PM
So let me get this staright, when Kobe shoots too much and they lose it's his fault. When Kobe is having a career shooting year and they're losing, it's still his fault? Makes perfect sense to me

Munkeysuit
11-23-2012, 01:27 PM
Yes, mostly because this offense is about movement, but when it's all said and done? it's Kobe we are talking about here...

Lim
11-23-2012, 02:06 PM
but you said history has shown us that he attempts more shots as the season goes on while his efficiency drops significantly. I simply said you are wrong in that regard.

No I meant according to history... meaning like i said, he has never shot even close to 50% for a season. and he has never shot less than 20 fga in almost a decade. so unless he turns into superman at age 34 and after 1300 some od games, i doubt this statistical anomaly will continue. and if you disagree with that, then I think you are the delusional one.

Supreme LA
11-23-2012, 02:11 PM
No I meant according to history... meaning like i said, he has never shot even close to 50% for a season. and he has never shot less than 20 fga in almost a decade. so unless he turns into superman at age 34 and after 1300 some od games, i doubt this statistical anomaly will continue. and if you disagree with that, then I think you are the delusional one.

Maybe the makeup of this team and a change in offense strategy is why Kobe will be able to maintain his play? It's so easy for you to make generalizations based on the past but you fail to take into consideration the other factors and dynamics that may play a big part in how he's playing this year. After all, we are talking about this season aren't we?

So shut up. Don't make dumb generalizations. Just watch how the season plays out.

Lim
11-23-2012, 03:27 PM
Maybe the makeup of this team and a change in offense strategy is why Kobe will be able to maintain his play? It's so easy for you to make generalizations based on the past but you fail to take into consideration the other factors and dynamics that may play a big part in how he's playing this year. After all, we are talking about this season aren't we?

So shut up. Don't make dumb generalizations. Just watch how the season plays out.

how do you know I am not thinking about those things?? but you are talking like kobe has never had a good lineup or a good coach.... :rolleyes:

I feel like I am in the twilight zone. To think that he can keep up this play at 34 and tons of mileage is delusional. to me at least.. history shows that this is nothing more than a statistical anomaly. I will be shocked and happily will eat crow if he keeps this up over 82 games..

b@llhog24
11-23-2012, 04:09 PM
Kobe has been better than him thus far as well.

Eh, I'd call it a push. Paul is making Jamal freaking Crawford look like an all-star man. Plus he'll probably be more valuable over the entirety of the season. Gimme Cp3.

Supreme LA
11-23-2012, 07:03 PM
Eh, I'd call it a push. Paul is making Jamal freaking Crawford look like an all-star man. Plus he'll probably be more valuable over the entirety of the season. Gimme Cp3.

How is CP3 making Crawford look like an all-star?? It's not like he's feeding him assists or anything. Crawford comes off the bench and strictly is an isolation break you down off the dribble type of player. His scoring has always been there and the fact that he's on a really stacked team like the Clippers just allows him to play even more one on one ball.

Crawford always played this way. It has nothing to do with CP3. Often times, they're not even on the court at same time.

RLundi
11-23-2012, 07:33 PM
Kobephobes vs Kobephiles, who wins?

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 07:36 PM
Eh, I'd call it a push. Paul is making Jamal freaking Crawford look like an all-star man. Plus he'll probably be more valuable over the entirety of the season. Gimme Cp3.

Those 2 aren't on the court much together, but I agree with your last part. Right now Kobe>CP3, but it's a small sample size. History favors Kobe's efficiency declining although I hope not :pray:

Chronz
11-23-2012, 07:39 PM
How is CP3 making Crawford look like an all-star?? It's not like he's feeding him assists or anything. Crawford comes off the bench and strictly is an isolation break you down off the dribble type of player. His scoring has always been there and the fact that he's on a really stacked team like the Clippers just allows him to play even more one on one ball.

Crawford always played this way. It has nothing to do with CP3. Often times, they're not even on the court at same time.

Yea but hes been money when he gets to play with the starters, which happens to include CP3. Hes shooting 52% and 53% from 3 with CP3 on the court vs 46/33% without. Thats quite a big difference, Crawford has been great regardless but hes doing better with CP3 thus far. He gets to focus more on high percentage spot up shots vs less efficient isolation plays. Thats the obvious payoff in most situations for 6thmen scorers

Chronz
11-23-2012, 07:42 PM
Those 2 aren't on the court much together, but I agree with your last part. Right now Kobe>CP3, but it's a small sample size. History favors Kobe's efficiency declining although I hope not :pray:

Crawford has spent 50% of his playing time alongside CP3. Eyes deceive, numbers spit the truth.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
11-23-2012, 08:01 PM
Kobephobes vs Kobephiles, who wins?

Everyone else.

nickdymez
11-23-2012, 08:19 PM
Crawford has spent 50% of his playing time alongside CP3. Eyes deceive, numbers spit the truth.

People who say this just doesn't know basketball..

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 08:46 PM
Yea but hes been money when he gets to play with the starters, which happens to include CP3. Hes shooting 52% and 53% from 3 with CP3 on the court vs 46/33% without. Thats quite a big difference, Crawford has been great regardless but hes doing better with CP3 thus far. He gets to focus more on high percentage spot up shots vs less efficient isolation plays. Thats the obvious payoff in most situations for 6thmen scorers

didn't know this, thanks for sharing.


Crawford has spent 50% of his playing time alongside CP3. Eyes deceive, numbers spit the truth.

Interesting, the 2 games I've watched it didn't seem that much. I notice they're both on the floor in crunch time when it matters most.

b@llhog24
11-23-2012, 09:11 PM
didn't know this, thanks for sharing.



Interesting, the 2 games I've watched it didn't seem that much. I notice they're both on the floor in crunch time when it matters most.

Prime example of why stats are VERY valuable. We can't watch every single minute of an Nba season for every team. It's just inhumanly possible, but stats can serve as our gateway to this type of information. Not attacking you personally or anything, just making a point.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 11:47 PM
People who say this just doesn't know basketball..

How so?

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 11:57 PM
Prime example of why stats are VERY valuable. We can't watch every single minute of an Nba season for every team. It's just inhumanly possible, but stats can serve as our gateway to this type of information. Not attacking you personally or anything, just making a point.

Totally agree.

Kobe's efficiency tonight was so awful :pity:

b@llhog24
11-24-2012, 12:30 AM
Totally agree.

Kobe's efficiency tonight was so awful :pity:

Lol it actually wasn't, he's just been SO ultra efficient during this year that it seems that way. Sucks to be a Laker fan huh? His FG% was putrid but he got to the line a ton. A fairly crude rule but one that I go by is, Kobe only took 23 shots to get 30 points, as long as your shots don't exceed your total points, you're efficiency tends to be ok-good. I can't comment about his defense though as I turned off the game.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-24-2012, 12:33 AM
Well he wasn't efficient today and they lost. Maybe he should be efficient to win a bit more.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 01:53 AM
Lol it actually wasn't, he's just been SO ultra efficient during this year that it seems that way. Sucks to be a Laker fan huh? His FG% was putrid but he got to the line a ton. A fairly crude rule but one that I go by is, Kobe only took 23 shots to get 30 points, as long as your shots don't exceed your total points, you're efficiency tends to be ok-good. I can't comment about his defense though as I turned off the game.

Doug Cllins, point per possessions analysis via TnT. I remember those and get what you saying while slightly agreeing

b@llhog24
11-24-2012, 02:19 AM
Doug Cllins, point per possessions analysis via TnT. I remember those and get what you saying while slightly agreeing

Yea it's not an exact science but generally speaking the result holds true. It's also is pretty useful when I don't know where my calculator is. :laugh2:

Chronz
11-24-2012, 02:50 AM
Doug Cllins, point per possessions analysis via TnT. I remember those and get what you saying while slightly agreeing

Thats points per shot, a highly flawed measure as it only pretends to account for free throws. It makes Shaq look like the most efficient player of all-time when in reality his FT shooting brings him down a peg.

In this game, points Per Possession wise, Kobe operated at 1ppp. Average I think

htc68
11-24-2012, 03:02 AM
If Kobe continues playing like this, Im sure He is MVP candidate, but also will push DH out of the team, He needs to involve others players to make sure they win, Kobe can't win by him self, tonight He shot 5 or 6 at the end of the game with out passing it, like if he is the only one who can score, I hope he realize that he needs HD to win another ring.

Lim
01-21-2013, 03:36 AM
1st 12 games in 2010-2011: 20 FGA on 44.5%FG ended up with 20FGA on 45.1%fg
1st 12 games in 2011-2012: 24FGA on 46%FG ended up with 23FGA on 43%FG

even in 2009-2010: he started with 24FGA and ended up with 21-22 FGA.

what history has shown us that he takes more shots as the season progresses? In fact he has taken less shots as the season progresses and his FG% drops 1-2% on average. The only history you mentioned is the delusions in your head.


Maybe the makeup of this team and a change in offense strategy is why Kobe will be able to maintain his play? It's so easy for you to make generalizations based on the past but you fail to take into consideration the other factors and dynamics that may play a big part in how he's playing this year. After all, we are talking about this season aren't we?

So shut up. Don't make dumb generalizations. Just watch how the season plays out.

feeling stupid yet ppl?

AIRMAR72
01-21-2013, 10:00 AM
kobe is almost FINISH he always start the season strong(this yr is the best ive EVER seen him play FG% IN HIS CAREER) but fade out after the allstar break

Doogolas
01-21-2013, 10:39 AM
kobe is almost FINISH he always start the season strong(this yr is the best ive EVER seen him play FG% IN HIS CAREER) but fade out after the allstar break

.556ts% before the All Star Game.
.554ts% after the All Star Game.

You're note even close to correct.