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View Full Version : Joe Johnson & Deron Williams



eugene
11-22-2012, 03:39 AM
Anybody surprised with how poor JJ and D-Will are playing? Guys earn 19.2 and 17.2 mln per year 2012/2013 season and they are only able to score 15.1 ppg (36%) and 18.4 ppg (42%) on mega poor shooting. With such kind of performance from both, Brooklyn Nets are not in the run.

Thoughts?

DeRozan10
11-22-2012, 03:40 AM
no

joe johnson has the worst contract per ability in the history of sports

shep33
11-22-2012, 03:46 AM
I think they'll pick it up. But so far they haven't been very good to say the least. Brook has easily been their best player offensively so far

eugene
11-22-2012, 03:47 AM
Plenty of people expected JJ to be much better with the strong PG by his side to feed him with passes but it didn't happen. D-Will also didn't benefit from having sharp shooting SG on his team. Seems like this plan doesn't work...

Ebbs
11-22-2012, 03:47 AM
no

joe johnson has the worst contract per ability in the history of sports

Not sure he's that bad. But I don't take the Nets very seriously or count them out yet. They need more then 10 games to put it all together.

shep33
11-22-2012, 03:53 AM
Maybe it's me, but I think Avery hasn't done a great job this year with rotations either

nitric
11-22-2012, 03:55 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why people think Deron is a top PG. He's been mediocre to awful as a Net. System player in the Jazz.

Knicks21
11-22-2012, 04:00 AM
Avery is the wrong coach for this team.

Lakers4life08
11-22-2012, 04:01 AM
And peoples was saying that Deron playing like **** becouse of poor players around him....why he playing poor this season??he is living near Mcdonald???never knew that somebody can suck 2 years in a row and shoot 30% and make 5 TO a game and be one of the best in his position

kblo247
11-22-2012, 04:05 AM
I honestly believe they are better with with Humo off the floor and playing small

JOhnnyTHaJet
11-22-2012, 04:06 AM
Its been 10 games...

eugene
11-22-2012, 04:13 AM
10 games is 1/8 of the season... add pre-season games as well...

PurpleJesus
11-22-2012, 04:16 AM
domefavors will not be pleased with this thread.

ee
11-22-2012, 05:03 AM
Its funny how even when playing this bad, they're still the 2nd highest scoring backcourt in the league..... Imagine when they start playing to their normal selves.....2nd only to kobe and nash.... Nash only played like one game so this technically make them 1st ...

PurpleJesus
11-22-2012, 05:05 AM
Its funny how even when playing this bad, they're still the 2nd highest scoring backcourt in the league..... Imagine when they start playing to their normal selves.....2nd only to kobe and nash.... Nash only played like one game so this technically make them 1st ...

What is scoring without efficiency though?

ee
11-22-2012, 05:10 AM
What is scoring without efficiency though?

You're pointing out efficiency after 10 games though.....joe is missing so many good looks so far, if this is game 60 and he's still at 36% then I'll be worried.....

PurpleJesus
11-22-2012, 05:11 AM
You're pointing out efficiency after 10 games though.....joe is missing so many good looks so far, if this is game 60 and he's still at 36% then I'll be worried.....

But you are pointing out scoring after only 10 games so far, why cant I point out efficiency?

ee
11-22-2012, 05:19 AM
But you are pointing out scoring after only 10 games so far, why cant I point out efficiency?

Didn't you read?, I said even at their worst, they still find ways to contribute..... If they played a full season together and still play this bad, then I'll be in agreement with the OP..... Players don't just come under a new system and be effective.....I myself expected the nets to be around .500 for the first half of the season.... I expect their scoring to be around the same numbers except with better efficiency by mid season.....I guess if you had high expectations base on how much they get paid, then you can criticise as you please....

Ebbs
11-22-2012, 05:34 AM
I'd rather have:

Westy - Kevin Martin
Chris Paul - Jamal Crawford
Nash - Kobe
Tony Parker - Manu
Rondo - Terry
Jennings - Ellis *extremely underrated.

Thus far into the season.

But that list would change if we're talking overall value

sep11ie
11-22-2012, 05:38 AM
What player can excel when domefavors is "captain of their fan base"?

sammyvine
11-22-2012, 06:45 AM
Not sure he's that bad. But I don't take the Nets very seriously or count them out yet. They need more then 10 games to put it all together.

How is he not that bad? Where have you been?

How can you have a $120m contract and have never done anything significant in the play offs or league.]
Your not even very marketable either.

sammyvine
11-22-2012, 06:46 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why people think Deron is a top PG. He's been mediocre to awful as a Net. System player in the Jazz.

This as well

I will give him time but i always read he is a top 3 pg better than rondo, westbrook, parker etc.....no he isnt.

BklynKnicks3
11-22-2012, 10:29 AM
deron os better then melo says espn lol

D2theJ
11-22-2012, 10:52 AM
Money has nothing to do with a players ability, I hate when people put money next to a players name thats not his fault thats the idiot owner who paid it. But yeah Joe sucks right now I don't even know whats wrong with him.

Avenged
11-22-2012, 10:59 AM
Lopez is carrying that team

Kenny
11-22-2012, 11:00 AM
Deron hasn't been good in 2 years. But people give him a pass for that and seem to still put him on that elite top 15 player level. He has to prove it at some point. He has fallen in love with the three ball the last couple years and it has hurt his game tremendously.

koreancabbage
11-22-2012, 11:01 AM
JJ needs the ball in his hand - i don't think he can be just a spot up shooter in his mind.

xxplayerxx23
11-22-2012, 11:20 AM
Deron is scaring me this year. Whats up with him? Still shooting that low a %, people blamed him being on a **** team but this is the same Deron from the last two years, its very early but its def a concern.

b@llhog24
11-22-2012, 11:26 AM
What is scoring without efficiency though?

A TS of 54% isn't inefficient. Joe Johnson's is chucking away though, but he's kind of a streaky player to me. They'll both pick it up eventually.

b@llhog24
11-22-2012, 11:36 AM
Lopez is carrying that team

Hakeem who?

Lopez is making is actually making DMF look like a prophet this far in the season. Keep in mind this is only ten games but here're some stats he's posting up this season:


Rk Player Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Brook Lopez 24 10 299 25.2 .577 .557 7.4 16.6 12.0 6.2 1.1 6.4 9.5 27.7 112 103 0.8 0.3 1.1 .178

Synergy thinks highly of him as well, with an overall PPP of 1.05

KingPosey
11-22-2012, 11:38 AM
I have been wondering about Derons shooting since coming to the Nets. He has been awful % wise for 2 years now

jmoney85
11-22-2012, 12:14 PM
Deron shoots too many contested threes and Avery's offensive system is not good... Very stagnant at times.. Most of our scoring comes from just player skill

Chill_Will_24
11-22-2012, 12:37 PM
Avery is not the right coach for this team. We need a coach that will demand excellence especially from the stars. Deron just throws up 3s all game. He rarely drives anymore and Avery just lets it happen.

His rotations are also pretty bad.

I give Avery credit for having this group of guys playing ok defense considering they have no good defensive players except one, and a horrible interior defense. However a team with this much firepower should not be this stagnant offensively. His bail out play is Iso-anyone and the old repeat any play that works.

Also i do not know anymore whether Lopez catching the ball outside the paint is by design or if Lopez is just so weak he has to go all the way out there but either way it has to stop. The guy needs to grow balls already.

Our bench is being underutilized. Mirza Teletovic is the only guy on the roster that can light it up from outside and he is glued to the bench. The guy is an Euro and will never get adjusted without some burn. Tayshawn Taylor is a ball hawk defensively and considering Deron has trouble staying in front of his man maybe giving Taylor more burn is a good option.

Chill_Will_24
11-22-2012, 12:38 PM
I wish the Nets make two phone calls. One to Kenyon Martin and another to Jerry Sloan.

DoMeFavors
11-22-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why people think Deron is a top PG. He's been mediocre to awful as a Net. System player in the Jazz.

Avg like 18 ppg and 11 assists for the Jazz is bad?

DoMeFavors
11-22-2012, 01:01 PM
And why are people talking so much about the sidekicks on the Nets? The Nets best player is Brook Lopez and he is having an ALL NBA 1st team season. People usually make threads about the best player on the team not the two players that go along with him. They are just figuring out how to play with Brook it will come.

knicksfan42
11-22-2012, 01:01 PM
I wish the Nets make two phone calls. One to Kenyon Martin and another to Jerry Sloan.

What? Deron essentially forced Sloan out, last team he's going to coach is the Nets.

BoSox47
11-22-2012, 01:07 PM
Avg like 18 ppg and 11 assists for the Jazz is bad?

since 2010 deron has had a .439 FG percentage. he was good with the jazz but he has fell off since. he more or less just throws of shots now.

Chill_Will_24
11-22-2012, 01:23 PM
What? Deron essentially forced Sloan out, last team he's going to coach is the Nets.

No he essentially did not. Sloan already had MAJOR issues with the way that ownership was running things. Deron Williams did something Sloan did not like and they had a disagreement (which they both admitted happened often) and when management did not support Sloan he quit.

The GM and ownership practically begged Sloan to stay. Sloan later confirmed his disagreement with Deron led to a rift with management and that his quitting had nothing to do with Deron.

Either way i agree that Sloan will probably not coach the Nets. However a coach that good should not be out of a job and maybe he might want back in. Maybe he wants a reunion with Deron :shrug: Wishful thinking perhaps but all i said is they should make the call. No harm in gauging interest.

ee
11-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Westbrook for his career shoots on par with dwill right now and he's already ranked higher than dwill.....dwill averaging 18 8 on a bad start accounting for about 40 points from his team not including foul shots his teamates get when they get fouled after an assist....my point is don't hang him yet, jj on the other hand seems lost out there, I still believe he'll make majority of all the open looks he's getting soon coz he misses about 5 to 6 of them each game....

knicksfan42
11-22-2012, 01:34 PM
No he essentially did not. Sloan already had MAJOR issues with the way that ownership was running things. Deron Williams did something Sloan did not like and they had a disagreement (which they both admitted happened often) and when management did not support Sloan he quit.

The GM and ownership practically begged Sloan to stay. Sloan later confirmed his disagreement with Deron led to a rift with management and that his quitting had nothing to do with Deron.

Either way i agree that Sloan will probably not coach the Nets. However a coach that good should not be out of a job and maybe he might want back in. Maybe he wants a reunion with Deron :shrug: Wishful thinking perhaps but all i said is they should make the call. No harm in gauging interest.


If it was Deron's fault would Sloan come out and say that? Probably not. In fact saying the bolded is going as far as I would expect Sloan to go in blaming Williams.

No coach in this league is outright going to say he was ousted by a player. That's just not the way things work.


Anyways your entire comment still explains why the last team Sloan is going to coach is the Nets.


SVG should be someone the Nets look at.

albertajaysfan
11-22-2012, 01:37 PM
Didn't you read?, I said even at their worst, they still find ways to contribute..... If they played a full season together and still play this bad, then I'll be in agreement with the OP..... Players don't just come under a new system and be effective.....I myself expected the nets to be around .500 for the first half of the season.... I expect their scoring to be around the same numbers except with better efficiency by mid season.....I guess if you had high expectations base on how much they get paid, then you can criticise as you please....

Actually there are enough examples on both sides that you can't effectively argue either side of this argument. The reality is at this point in the season JJ and Deron are not playing good at all. Both of them need their efficiency to increase before Brooklyn goes anywhere.

If this is the contribution they get from their backcourt on the regular they are a 7th or 8th seed finishing around .500. Beating inferior opponents to achieve this but unable to match up with any elite teams. These two teams are a huge part of their team offensively. Brook cannot carry them offensively because their defence is only average at best, unless they are playing Orlando apparently.

N3TS
11-22-2012, 01:38 PM
I think it's too early to tell, but both of them are ball dominant guards so its not exactly a dream scenario.

Gram
11-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Joe Johnson.

Gram
11-22-2012, 01:40 PM
Deron Williams.

JIDsanity
11-22-2012, 01:46 PM
What is scoring without efficiency though?

Agreed. For veterans they have been awful. They need to get it together.

JIDsanity
11-22-2012, 01:49 PM
Hakeem who?

Lopez is making is actually making DMF look like a prophet this far in the season. Keep in mind this is only ten games but here're some stats he's posting up this season:


Rk Player Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Brook Lopez 24 10 299 25.2 .577 .557 7.4 16.6 12.0 6.2 1.1 6.4 9.5 27.7 112 103 0.8 0.3 1.1 .178

Synergy thinks highly of him as well, with an overall PPP of 1.05

Funny, because Nets fans were concerned with him being a weak link coming into the season having only played 5 gms last yr.

Daze9900
11-22-2012, 01:51 PM
They'll be fine! Might need to add an outside shooter to the starting lineup teams don't have to respect Wallace & Hump as much. Lopez is doing what he can inside. Given more time to gel they'll be fine and be ready for a run in June.

nitric
11-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Avg like 18 ppg and 11 assists for the Jazz is bad?

Where did I say he was bad as a Jazz? He hasn't been good as a Net

ee
11-22-2012, 04:27 PM
These are the shots joe misses alot...I think he'll be fine....
http://i45.tinypic.com/bdum42.jpg

Minimal
11-22-2012, 04:37 PM
no

joe johnson has the worst contract per ability in the history of sports
Jermaine...cough...O'Neal...cough...23 Million/Year...2009-2010 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pr9jUGvnDaI/S9kbf8LNCBI/AAAAAAAAEpM/ECOWu8vHXdY/s1600/jermaine+o%27neal+heat+record.png

Chill_Will_24
11-22-2012, 05:03 PM
If it was Deron's fault would Sloan come out and say that? Probably not. In fact saying the bolded is going as far as I would expect Sloan to go in blaming Williams.

No coach in this league is outright going to say he was ousted by a player. That's just not the way things work.


Anyways your entire comment still explains why the last team Sloan is going to coach is the Nets.


SVG should be someone the Nets look at.

Please. That is like saying if a child does something wrong and his parents get into a whole argument about it and the dad decides to leave the mom, its the child's fault that his dad left.

Deron Williams and Sloan got into it just like Kobe got into it with Phil and Karl got into it with Melo and just like any strong headed coach gets into it with his stars. Teams need a coach that will hold stars accountable.

Sloan had no personal issues with Deron and i do not see why Sloan would not consider the Brooklyn Nets. His biggest issue in Utah was that management did not give him power with personnel decisions and did not support him whenever he wanted something done his way. The Nets support Avery to death which is the reason they probably will not fire him anytime soon.

Lakers4life08
11-24-2012, 02:25 AM
Deron Williams is horrible....dude can't shoot to save his life,he sucks from day one as a Nets...the day when he shoots 50+% from the field,they should name that day a Deron Williams day....in the last 5 games his best shooting game was against Boston,he shoot 35% from the field in that game

ee
11-24-2012, 02:47 AM
Deron Williams is horrible....dude can't shoot to save his life,he sucks from day one as a Nets...the day when he shoots 50+% from the field,they should name that day a Deron Williams day....in the last 5 games his best shooting game was against Boston,he shoot 35% from the field in that game

Dude, he's playing through some pain, ankle and wrist, the team is still 7-4.....

Lakers4life08
11-24-2012, 02:54 AM
Dude, he's playing through some pain, ankle and wrist, the team is still 7-4.....


Wow 2 years playing with pain,ankle and wrist injures ,WOW he is real worrior!!!!!!!:speechless: they shedule is joke so far,and 7-4 is not impressive,when you look at their shedule

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:57 AM
You know what ppl criticize Joe Johnson's contract, but that 20 million per year contract he got saved the Nets franchise cause w/o JJ I doubt Deron Williams would have resigned.

ee
11-24-2012, 02:59 AM
Wow 2 years playing with pain,ankle and wrist injures ,WOW he is real worrior!!!!!!!:speechless: they shedule is joke so far,and 7-4 is not impressive,when you look at their shedule

Lol, this is not a vent thread :D.... I'm a net fan, I should be the one affected and complaining...complain about your lakers losing tonight...

Losoway
11-24-2012, 05:21 AM
d will has been playing like d will . joe johnson has been playing terrible

but like i said IN JUNE. Brook lopez is the best scorer on this team

njnets
11-24-2012, 01:44 PM
they were both first options with utah and atlanta. factor in brook's need for the ball and sometimes they feel out of place.

i think they will pick it up but right now there not playing on the level that they are expected to be at. i imagine that they will return to their latter forms as the year goes on.

joe johnson needs to be involved more also. too many times minutes go by and he is just lost in the offense. he has too much talent to put aside. while it may be hard to get everyone their touches, it should be a good problem. defenses should be worrying about it instead of knowing where the ball should be going next.

eugene
01-11-2013, 12:11 PM
I have to admit, they are doing better under PJC now...

TopsyTurvy
01-11-2013, 12:21 PM
There's nothing efficient about them, but both players are able to take over games by themselves. Yes they have to adjust, but currently the game plan is all about engaging Lopez, and they are doing a fantastic job of that.

I don't think the Nets have as many people problems as fans looking for instant gratification are whining about. Give the coaching staff some time to find a balanced plan for that back court and I think the team will succeed. The "problem" for the Nets going forward is surrounding that core of players with the proper talent to make a title push.