PDA

View Full Version : Kevin Love active tonight?



bholly
11-21-2012, 08:07 PM
Jon Krawczynski ‏@APkrawczynski
Hey everyone ... You might want to change your plans and get down to Target Center for a big surprise tonight ...

Jon Krawczynski ‏@APkrawczynski
BREAKING: Kevin Love is a surprise activation tonight for #Twolves vs. #Nuggets. He will start the game.

I don't know how reliable this guy is, but he seems legit. Super cool.

tredigs
11-21-2012, 08:09 PM
He'll have a fun rebounding test going up against Faried. Hope it's true.

bholly
11-21-2012, 08:10 PM
DimeAlert Dime Alert
Kevin Love has been activated and will start tonight's game against Denver.

Game is vs Denver, 8pm Eastern in Minny.

justinnum1
11-21-2012, 08:11 PM
Now I have to choose between farried or love for fantasy.

Jesse2272
11-21-2012, 08:12 PM
Uh oh!

SlimKid
11-21-2012, 08:12 PM
Yep! Just saw this from the Wolves local beat-writer.

"KLove will start tonight vs Nuggets tonight"

http://twitter.com/JerryZgoda/status/271404851873853440


Finally gettin' some guys back!

Stunner
11-21-2012, 08:21 PM
Fantasy Team !!!!!!!

Sota4Ever
11-21-2012, 08:34 PM
Klove is back.

Sneaky
11-21-2012, 08:50 PM
Good to see him back.

Ebbs
11-21-2012, 08:51 PM
Wow way sooner than I thought.

iDefend10
11-21-2012, 09:00 PM
I'm curious has to how he will preform coming back from injury. Is he 100%?

topdog
11-21-2012, 09:02 PM
To set the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JA6OOEiAKk

NBAfan4life
11-21-2012, 09:25 PM
What a awesome surprise. I was just about to watch the last SOA episode, but F that K love is playing.

tredigs
11-21-2012, 09:27 PM
Holy **** he is KILLING it already.

BallinOutOfMind
11-21-2012, 09:32 PM
16 of the teams 21! In his first game to.

LAKobeBryant
11-21-2012, 09:34 PM
hes a beast man

BklynKnicks3
11-22-2012, 02:18 AM
david lee is back more empty numbers and a loss

Sota4Ever
11-22-2012, 02:23 AM
Haha good one there bud..

kblo247
11-22-2012, 04:03 AM
He returns, their d suffers, their O goes out of wack with guys like AK and Shved who were winning games, but least he got to stat pad like always in what he is most accustomed to, losses.

PurpleJesus
11-22-2012, 04:20 AM
He returns, their d suffers, their O goes out of wack with guys like AK and Shved who were winning games, but least he got to stat pad like always in what he is most accustomed to, losses.

You cant be serious? Guys like you actually think a player like Love has empty stats...if you believe that, than check out his +/- tonight.

I can't get over how idiotic people are to think that Love's stats are empty. I am not an advocate of the +/- stat, but if you are to think that a player's stats are empty, then look at the +/- of this game...according to you, if Love played every minute, the team would have won.

The guy played with his shooting hand broken tonight, and were in the game because of him, not despite him.

PurpleJesus
11-22-2012, 04:21 AM
david lee is back more empty numbers and a loss

Can you please please tell me how Kevin Loves game resembles David Lee? Outside of them both being white, playing the PF position, and can rebound, they are nowhere close to being the same player.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 06:38 AM
He returns, their d suffers, their O goes out of wack with guys like AK and Shved who were winning games, but least he got to stat pad like always in what he is most accustomed to, losses.

Dear god get a grip man, stop putting forth so much importance on small samples. The TWolves were overachieving, their offense was **** even in those victories. Their SRS was below league average so its not as if they were winning convincingly. I mean they lost to a superior team, why is that so bad?

kblo247
11-22-2012, 07:08 AM
Was pissed that his one man stat padding routine cost me in fantasy with AK and Shved.

Still three is truth to Loves numbers not translating to actual Ws in the win column throughout the years. He gets a double standard from early Zach, Al, and Lee. He doesn't play any D, he doesn't fit in, and his team doesn't win games behind those stats so yeah I don't value him as the best if he can't turn the stats into wins for his team because true great players can get trash in the playoffs (Kobe, Bron, Melo, Wade, AI, Tracy) which he has yet to do.

BklynKnicks3
11-22-2012, 10:33 AM
Can you please please tell me how Kevin Loves game resembles David Lee? Outside of them both being white, playing the PF position, and can rebound, they are nowhere close to being the same player.

lee avg 22 and 12 for a 30 win team to. Lee doesnt play d just like love. Only didd is lee lefty and love has more range. Both have little impact as far as the outcome of games.

bucketss
11-22-2012, 10:36 AM
anyone else bench him on their fantasy team?:facepalm: ****.

Gram
11-22-2012, 10:45 AM
He's sick.

Swashcuff
11-22-2012, 11:22 AM
A guy just returned EARLY from an injury on his SHOOTING hand drops 35 and 14 and is getting heckled because his team lost to a superior team. :clap: well played PSD.

Its ONE game the team lost ONE game for crying out loud.

Mr. Baller
11-22-2012, 12:27 PM
A guy just returned EARLY from an injury on his SHOOTING hand drops 35 and 14 and is getting heckled because his team lost to a superior team. :clap: well played PSD.

Its ONE game the team lost ONE game for crying out loud.

welcome to PSD!

justinnum1
11-22-2012, 12:40 PM
anyone else bench him on their fantasy team?:facepalm: ****.

i subbed him in over farried at the last moment :dance:

JNA17
11-22-2012, 12:45 PM
Kevin Love is a straight up beast. Glad he was able to return so early.

Chavacano
11-22-2012, 12:54 PM
Kevin Wesley Love's a beast.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 01:32 PM
Was pissed that his one man stat padding routine cost me in fantasy with AK and Shved.
Lets be real here, you didn't actually expect AK-47 to sustain his early season returns did you? That was a big part of that fluky start despite their low efficiency scores.




Still there is truth to Loves numbers not translating to actual Ws in the win column throughout the years.
Maybe a shred but you jumped the gun on him last night. I mean even if Love did inhibit the team from winning, dont you think the big picture is that they want AK and Love to develop some chemistry for the long haul? Adelman played them exclusively together, something I doubt he intends to do later in the year once everyone is back.

And no offense but when it comes to statistical analysis, Im not buying your take on anything. Translating to victory is a cliche lazy analysts like to say when they just want to put down a player. Im not saying theres no truth to it, just that its something thats way overused. I need some pretty in depth analysis to buy someones take on that.


He gets a double standard from early Zach, Al, and Lee. He doesn't play any D, he doesn't fit in, and his team doesn't win games behind those stats so yeah I don't value him as the best if he can't turn the stats into wins for his team because true great players can get trash in the playoffs (Kobe, Bron, Melo, Wade, AI, Tracy) which he has yet to do.
If you knew stats, you would know why those 3 PF's are bad comparisons. And anyone can miss the playoffs if the circumstances are bad enough, I believe Love's situation has warranted some leeway. Not this year though, he should be able to crack .500 finally.

I dont value him as the best either but its not because hes failing to make the playoffs, its because hes unproven in them.

NBAfan4life
11-22-2012, 05:21 PM
A guy just returned EARLY from an injury on his SHOOTING hand drops 35 and 14 and is getting heckled because his team lost to a superior team. :clap: well played PSD.

Its ONE game the team lost ONE game for crying out loud.

This

SLY WILLIAMS
11-22-2012, 06:32 PM
If you guys can bash this guy than you can bash almost anyone. He is better than 98% of the players in the NBA at 24 years old. He works his butt off. He led the league in rebounding. He makes dramatic leaps in scoring average every year. What do you want from the guy? There is not a single team in the NBA that would not want this guy.

JNA17
11-22-2012, 07:08 PM
He works his butt off.

No he didn't. That was Shaq's biggest problem, especially in his later years with the Lakers. He became fat and more lazy. Shaq could have reached to his full potential but didn't. While still a very dominate center, he could have become so much more.

kblo247
11-22-2012, 07:23 PM
If you guys can bash this guy than you can bash almost anyone. He is better than 98% of the players in the NBA at 24 years old. He works his butt off. He led the league in rebounding. He makes dramatic leaps in scoring average every year. What do you want from the guy? There is not a single team in the NBA that would not want this guy.

I don't care about his numbers if they aren't helping his team win games, which they aren't and haven't historically year after freaking year. You can't be called the best PF in the game, and not help your team get to the playoffs once. You just can't. It isn't even a talent argument because guys have taken trash to winning records and over 500 to make the playoffs.

Kobe did it, Iverson did it, TMac did it, Wade did it, Bron did it, Melo did it. The fact is Love isn't that good if he can't lead his team to the playoffs when guys I mentioned above have had Smish Parker, Luke Walton, Drew Gooden, Giriceik, Haslem, Brian Cook, Tryone Hill, old JO and the like as their main support.

It's a double standard when Al Jefferson gets called out for empty stats long as he wasn't in he postseason, David Lee gets called out for it in Ny and GSW, and Zach did in Portland, NY, and as a Clipper. Hell they all play better D than Love sadly and that gets overlooked.

It becomes even stupider when you here guys rate him highly yet over analyze the hell out of Kobe, who has won 5 rings playing the way he has, been to 7 finals, and made the playoffs all but one year and would've been in then if he didn't get hurt. It is stupid to over analyze Carmelo Athony and question if he is a superstar when he joined a team as a rookie that hadn't made the playoffs 8 straight years and took them to 7.5 years of straight winning records, and has never missed the playoffs. Is stupid to see LeBron questioned when he's led a team, same goes for Wade, and even Bosh who got the lowly Raptors to the playoffs.

Till Love gets his team to the dance, over 500, like an actual all star player is supposed to he is nothing more nothing less than the Monta Ellis of big men, great stats, no tangible results

popo85
11-22-2012, 07:24 PM
8:clap:

AddiX
11-22-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm always down for a good Kevin love bashing session, but I'm not sure what there is to bash right now.

Let's give him and his team a bit of time before we judge him this season, at least more than one game maybe?

AddiX
11-22-2012, 07:36 PM
It's a double standard when Al Jefferson gets called out for empty stats long as he wasn't in he postseason, David Lee gets called out for it in Ny and GSW, and Zach did in Portland, NY, and as a Clipper. Hell they all play better D than Love sadly and that gets overlooked.


I've been saying this forever, love has the biggest double standard in the NBA. The things I hear psd say about other players bashing them, somehow never applies to love.

I'll give him some time this year before I judge him and the wolves, but I've said since the beginning wolves will be fighting for the 8th seed at best.

BklynKnicks3
11-22-2012, 08:53 PM
If Melo came back n had 35 n 14 n team lost he is a cancer. Gotta love these great white hopes or Lin. Iam white by the way so just being real. Love hasn't been .500 n is considered top 7 by most. Melo is a loser for losing to 6 nba final teams in the playoffs makes a lot of sense.

kblo247
11-22-2012, 09:23 PM
If Melo came back n had 35 n 14 n team lost he is a cancer. Gotta love these great white hopes or Lin. Iam white by the way so just being real. Love hasn't been .500 n is considered top 7 by most. Melo is a loser for losing to 6 nba final teams in the playoffs makes a lot of sense.

Hey, hey Kobe is still a ball hog and cancer who doesn't know how to play the right way and needs to change after 5 titles and 7 finals appearances :facepalm:

Chronz
11-22-2012, 10:15 PM
LOL I guess Kareem sucked then. Wilt prolly sucked too then. Hmm who else has missed the playoffs. Oh yea Tmac, Kobe and Wade all sucked too then.

justinnum1
11-22-2012, 10:18 PM
If Melo came back n had 35 n 14 n team lost he is a cancer. Gotta love these great white hopes or Lin. Iam white by the way so just being real. Love hasn't been .500 n is considered top 7 by most. Melo is a loser for losing to 6 nba final teams in the playoffs makes a lot of sense.

:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
11-23-2012, 12:18 AM
He returns, their d suffers, their O goes out of wack with guys like AK and Shved who were winning games, but least he got to stat pad like always in what he is most accustomed to, losses.

really? The Wolves have no business being 5-5 with the depleted roster they have had to work with. They went against a team that was picked by many to be a top 3 team out west, fully healthy, with 3 players coming back from missing games that were big minute guys.

I wonder what the excuses will be later this season, if and when the Wolves are healthy, and making a strong push?

Rhetorical question.

BklynKnicks3
11-23-2012, 12:23 AM
wolves will win 35 games

Corey
11-23-2012, 12:28 AM
lee avg 22 and 12 for a 30 win team to. Lee doesnt play d just like love. Only didd is lee lefty and love has more range. Both have little impact as far as the outcome of games.


If Melo came back n had 35 n 14 n team lost he is a cancer. Gotta love these great white hopes or Lin. Iam white by the way so just being real. Love hasn't been .500 n is considered top 7 by most. Melo is a loser for losing to 6 nba final teams in the playoffs makes a lot of sense.
There is no need to be upset, my child.

Unrustle your jimmies.

justinnum1
11-23-2012, 12:38 AM
wolves will win 35 games

:yawn:

thechom80
11-23-2012, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS
He works his butt off.


No he didn't. That was Shaq's biggest problem, especially in his later years with the Lakers. He became fat and more lazy. Shaq could have reached to his full potential but didn't. While still a very dominate center, he could have become so much more.


This post confuses me. Kevin busts his ***!! You for whatever reason brought up Shaq...

kblo247
11-23-2012, 01:10 AM
This post confuses me. Kevin busts his ***!! You for whatever reason brought up Shaq...

I think, he means Lee doesn't work his literal behind off, as in his weight. I believe he's saying his weight will cost him when he ages

kblo247
11-23-2012, 01:13 AM
LOL I guess Kareem sucked then. Wilt prolly sucked too then. Hmm who else has missed the playoffs. Oh yea Tmac, Kobe and Wade all sucked too then.

Call me when Love gets there or finished over 500 ever is my point. Say what you want about them all missing it before for different reasons, but they got scrubs to over 500 records. Love hasn't done that. He can't be a superstar, the best PF in the nba, or none of that if he can't do what a franchise player like Carmelo, Wade, Bron, Kobe, Mac, AI have done, which is get his team a winning regular seed record and playoff berth. Until he does that those stats he puts up are just as empty and meaningless as Zach, Al, and Lee were accused of having especially since he plays no D at all

I mean I've seen hawkeye say Melo isn't a superstar, argue it even, yet Love for gods sake hasn't accomplished anything close to Melo. And Melo tuned a franchise around from day one. He went to a team that hadn't made the playoffs or had a winning record in 8 years and then helped them finish with a winning record the next 7.5 till he was dealt, while never missing the playoffs, and then to NY where he has not missed them either in 1.5 years. How can Melo not be as good as he is claimed, yet Love can't do a similar thing by bringing any semblance of winning to his team like a true superstar, which is the label you give him when calling him the best at his position?

kblo247
11-23-2012, 01:19 AM
really? The Wolves have no business being 5-5 with the depleted roster they have had to work with. They went against a team that was picked by many to be a top 3 team out west, fully healthy, with 3 players coming back from missing games that were big minute guys.

I wonder what the excuses will be later this season, if and when the Wolves are healthy, and making a strong push?

Rhetorical question.

The lack of D they played is related to Love. Love doesn't even try on that end, so why should the others and it showed a great contrast to the effort and attention to detail the wolves were playing with before he came back. I mean even in a loss to th Bulls they still were playing D to the end, yet yesterday they didn't because Love doesn't set a tone of anything at all but laziness on that end and it trickles down.

thechom80
11-23-2012, 02:03 AM
I think, he means Lee doesn't work his literal behind off, as in his weight. I believe he's saying his weight will cost him when he ages

I hope you realize he isn't a fat kid anymore.

THE MTL
11-23-2012, 02:44 AM
Kevin Love is the only player in the NBA who can go off for 34pts 14rebounds and you can almost guarantee his team loses......

What ppl dont understand is when you have a "star" player who goes off on a particular night. His team usually wins 90% of those games unless your K.Love.

What im trying to say is that if K.Love 40pts 20rebs (or whatever) is not winning basketball and if u need such an output from KLove then your team must not be very good.

On a good team....Kevin Love wnt get 20-10. Kevin Love doesnt win basketball games. Wolves are 0.500 now? I guarantee you that they will be sub 0.500 team by the time Rubio comes back. It is Rubio who wins them basketball games....

kblo247
11-23-2012, 03:27 AM
Kevin Love is the only player in the NBA who can go off for 34pts 14rebounds and you can almost guarantee his team loses......

What ppl dont understand is when you have a "star" player who goes off on a particular night. His team usually wins 90% of those games unless your K.Love.

What im trying to say is that if K.Love 40pts 20rebs (or whatever) is not winning basketball and if u need such an output from KLove then your team must not be very good.

On a good team....Kevin Love wnt get 20-10. Kevin Love doesnt win basketball games. Wolves are 0.500 now? I guarantee you that they will be sub 0.500 team by the time Rubio comes back. It is Rubio who wins them basketball games....

Hot damn! Preaching to the choir here, I agree with you. Lets see Love help his team win games, not shares for once in his nba career, like a true franchise player does, and if he doesn't let's just call his stats empty or criticize him like we do players who actually make their teams contend

VikesTwinsWolve
11-23-2012, 12:12 PM
It's funny how psd's finest ( morons) act like you flat out wouldn't want Klove on your team haha. He is a top 12 player in the league if you like him or not. Why don't you haters go find a girlfriend or something. Jeez.......

SLY WILLIAMS
11-23-2012, 12:29 PM
There are 240 minutes played per game by each teams players.

(5 players per team in a 48 minute game)

Kevin Love plays around 36 minutes of his teams 240 minutes. (15% of his teams overall minutes)

Kevin Love does everything he can during his 36 minutes but this is a team game. He cant play 5 positions at once for 48 minutes. He has played on horrible teams. Not being able to carry his team to a winning record doesn't mean his is a bad player anymore than it did for Jordan in his first few years. Or Patrick Ewing for his first few years.

Some great players like Larry Bird and David Robinson were able to turn around their teams as rookies but Kevin Love doesn't have to be able to carry a team single handedly to be a good player. There have been many good players throughout history stuck on bad teams for years.

bucketss
11-23-2012, 01:21 PM
Kevin Love is the only player in the NBA who can go off for 34pts 14rebounds and you can almost guarantee his team loses......

What ppl dont understand is when you have a "star" player who goes off on a particular night. His team usually wins 90% of those games unless your K.Love.

What im trying to say is that if K.Love 40pts 20rebs (or whatever) is not winning basketball and if u need such an output from KLove then your team must not be very good.

On a good team....Kevin Love wnt get 20-10. Kevin Love doesnt win basketball games. Wolves are 0.500 now? I guarantee you that they will be sub 0.500 team by the time Rubio comes back. It is Rubio who wins them basketball games....

look who hes been playing with and than look at what conf. he is in, i guarantee you if melo played there everyone would see him as a taller monta ellis which he is btw.

BklynKnicks3
11-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Melo does everything better then love except rebound funny n it's not close

bucketss
11-23-2012, 02:05 PM
Melo does everything better then love except rebound funny n it's not close

yeah hes better at being a team cancer,hes better at chucking shots,hes better at killing his teams offense,hes better at getting his coach fired,hes better at being a monta ellis clone. hes almost as good as being monta ellis than monta ellis himself.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Call me when Love gets there or finished over 500 ever is my point.
You should call me when he gets the talent alongside him to do so first, dont you think?



Say what you want about them all missing it before for different reasons, but they got scrubs to over 500 records. Love hasn't done that.
Yet...


He can't be a superstar, the best PF in the nba, or none of that if he can't do what a franchise player like Carmelo, Wade, Bron, Kobe, Mac, AI have done, which is get his team a winning regular seed record and playoff berth.
Nonsense, history has proven you can be a player far superior to Carmelo and still miss out on the playoffs. Your analysis is lacking.


Until he does that those stats he puts up are just as empty and meaningless as Zach, Al, and Lee were accused of having especially since he plays no D at all
His D isnt as suspect as you say IMO. And his statistical worth is far too impressive to put in that class of players.


I mean I've seen hawkeye say Melo isn't a superstar, argue it even, yet Love for gods sake hasn't accomplished anything close to Melo. And Melo tuned a franchise around from day one. He went to a team that hadn't made the playoffs or had a winning record in 8 years and then helped them finish with a winning record the next 7.5 till he was dealt, while never missing the playoffs, and then to NY where he has not missed them either in 1.5 years. How can Melo not be as good as he is claimed, yet Love can't do a similar thing by bringing any semblance of winning to his team like a true superstar, which is the label you give him when calling him the best at his position?
Melo wasn't even his teams best player most years in Denver IMO. Even if you disagree, when Love is arguably his teams 2nd best player, then that will be a fair comparison.

Break it down logically, was Melo better than LeBron in year 2? Melo made the playoffs but Bron put up 27-7-7 for the first time in ages. Who would you say was more of a franchise player at that point? Cmon man

BklynKnicks3
11-23-2012, 02:13 PM
yeah hes better at being a team cancer,hes better at chucking shots,hes better at killing his teams offense,hes better at getting his coach fired,hes better at being a monta ellis clone. hes almost as good as being monta ellis than monta ellis himself.

ye he is destroying the knicks this year let me tell u first in ever offensive stat.

Swashcuff
11-23-2012, 02:15 PM
Chronz did you just call what kblo typed analysis? You're being very generous today aren't you :clap:

Chronz
11-23-2012, 02:16 PM
Hot damn! Preaching to the choir here, I agree with you. Lets see Love help his team win games, not shares for once in his nba career, like a true franchise player does, and if he doesn't let's just call his stats empty or criticize him like we do players who actually make their teams contend

Kevin Love is the only player in the NBA who can go off for 34pts 14rebounds and you can almost guarantee his team loses......
Shouldn't that tell you how sorry his support is?


What ppl dont understand is when you have a "star" player who goes off on a particular night. His team usually wins 90% of those games unless your K.Love.

If your going to inform the "ppl" then shouldnt you substantiate your claims? I mean your using actual quantifying numbers here. 90% sounds incredibly presumptuous, Im not a fan of people misusing statistics to back their argument so could you elaborate on your opinion?




On a good team....Kevin Love wnt get 20-10. Kevin Love doesnt win basketball games. Wolves are 0.500 now? I guarantee you that they will be sub 0.500 team by the time Rubio comes back. It is Rubio who wins them basketball games....
I like Rubio and Im a believer in PG's who dictate offenses being more valuable than their statistics would assume but how do you know Rubio makes them win more than Love?

And again, your statistical acumen is very much in question, dont expect us to take you at face value.

bucketss
11-23-2012, 02:36 PM
ye he is destroying the knicks this year let me tell u first in ever offensive stat.

hes streaky like i said a taller monta ellis a shorter andrea bargnani.

Oefarmy2005
11-23-2012, 03:49 PM
I absolutely love(no pun intended) all of these statements after Love plays 1 regular season game...

BklynKnicks3
11-23-2012, 04:37 PM
hes streaky like i said a taller monta ellis a shorter andrea bargnani.

u make no sense u are talking about the most complete scorer in the nba the onoly thing bargnani has in comman wiuth melo is that he plays the same sport. Monta is more like westbrook nothing like melo

Bluntz
11-23-2012, 05:04 PM
If you're bashing Love in this thread I feel bad for your lack of intelligence.

thekmp211
11-23-2012, 06:01 PM
i mean i feel like it should be common knowledge that love has played with some terrible roster support. i can't imagine any of the fools bashing his production have actually, you know, ever watched a timberwolves game.

SLY WILLIAMS
11-23-2012, 06:08 PM
No he didn't. That was Shaq's biggest problem, especially in his later years with the Lakers. He became fat and more lazy. Shaq could have reached to his full potential but didn't. While still a very dominate center, he could have become so much more.

I do not know what Shaq has to do with Kevin Love but I do not view Love as a lazy player. I personally do not know how any player in NBA would have gotten 15 rebounds a game while being lazy.




Till Love gets his team to the dance, over 500, like an actual all star player is supposed to he is nothing more nothing less than the Monta Ellis of big men, great stats, no tangible results

????

Did you say the same about Jordan when his teams were under 500 teams?

Did you say the same about Ewing when his teams were under 500?

Did you say that about Bernard King when his teams were under 500?

Did you say the same thing about Oscar Robertson when he was on teams below 500?

I agree with you on the importance of winning games. I'm much more about winning than stats BUT I will not look at players in a vacuum without context. I have been a good hard working player on some bad teams. I bet many people on this board have at times. Boxing is one on one. The NBA is not. There are often going to be average to bad players on winning teams as well as some good players on bad teams.

bucketss
11-23-2012, 06:14 PM
u make no sense u are talking about the most complete scorer in the nba the onoly thing bargnani has in comman wiuth melo is that he plays the same sport. Monta is more like westbrook nothing like melo

lol @ most complete scorer.

topdog
11-23-2012, 06:32 PM
I love how no one mentions the guys that Love has had to play with and how poorly they are now doing this year without him/on other teams:

Michael Beasley: shooting a terrible 36% on 14 shots per in Phoenix
Wes Johnson: can't get off the bench is Phoenix; he's played 33 minutes all year
Darko Milicic: waived
Anthony Randolph: 5 minutes so far in Denver
Martell Webster: 6.8ppg in 20 minutes on the league's worst team

And yet, with Rubio (as a rookie) and Pek emerging, the Wolves were in the playoff hunt last year.

Missing56&33
11-23-2012, 07:59 PM
Good to see him back.

Yeah it is good to see him back...hes a great player.

Jesse2272
11-23-2012, 08:03 PM
hes streaky like i said a taller monta ellis a shorter andrea bargnani.

Watch the games bro

Swashcuff
11-23-2012, 09:21 PM
I love how no one mentions the guys that Love has had to play with and how poorly they are now doing this year without him/on other teams:

Michael Beasley: shooting a terrible 36% on 14 shots per in Phoenix
Wes Johnson: can't get off the bench is Phoenix; he's played 33 minutes all year
Darko Milicic: waived
Anthony Randolph: 5 minutes so far in Denver
Martell Webster: 6.8ppg in 20 minutes on the league's worst team

And yet, with Rubio (as a rookie) and Pek emerging, the Wolves were in the playoff hunt last year.

Why on earth should you bring rational thinking into the discussion? That's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY outta of those guys trend of thought.

Kevin Love = David Lee deal with it.

topdog
11-23-2012, 10:38 PM
Why on earth should you bring rational thinking into the discussion? That's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY outta of those guys trend of thought.

Kevin Love = David Lee deal with it.

Oh, sorry :hide:

Carmelo Anthony is the DPOY because the Knicks have the biggest point differential. Better? ;)

Sota4Ever
11-23-2012, 10:39 PM
Your missing the mvp part too and the comback player of the year... I am embarrassed to call you a twolf fan...

kblo247
11-24-2012, 01:36 AM
Once again good stat padding effort, no defensive tone at all, and like always a L in the column that matters

Sota4Ever
11-24-2012, 01:47 AM
If Love was a pg or sg. This loss would be all on him. But last time I checked he was not. But hey just keep looking at stats and the result of the game. That will give you a great insight to how the game went. You have the intelligence of garbage, so I really wouldn't expect anything else from you. So keep doing what you do dude.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 01:49 AM
I love how no one mentions the guys that Love has had to play with and how poorly they are now doing this year without him/on other teams:

Michael Beasley: shooting a terrible 36% on 14 shots per in Phoenix
Wes Johnson: can't get off the bench is Phoenix; he's played 33 minutes all year
Darko Milicic: waived
Anthony Randolph: 5 minutes so far in Denver
Martell Webster: 6.8ppg in 20 minutes on the league's worst team

And yet, with Rubio (as a rookie) and Pek emerging, the Wolves were in the playoff hunt last year.

Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Smush Parker, Sasha Vujacic, Brian Cook

Pat Garity, Gordon Giricek, Drew Gooden, Daryl Armstrong, Steven Hunter

Tyrone Hill, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Derrick Coleman, George Lynch

Joel Anthony, Jermaine ONeal, Udonis Haslem, Mario Calmers, Jason Williams, Chris Quinn

Sasha Pavolic, Daniel Gibson, Anderson Varejao, Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall


Franchise players get their teams over 500 when they are supposed superstars, yet the best PF in the game can't. Something's not right, help or not ...

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 01:59 AM
look who hes been playing with and than look at what conf. he is in, i guarantee you if melo played there everyone would see him as a taller monta ellis which he is btw.

Then how come the Wolves were a winning team before KLove come back? How come the Wolves were in playoff contention last year until Rubio got injured?

Its not the Wolves lack of talent cause they were holding their own without Love up until this point.

Kevin Love is not winning basketball once again. What he have tnight? 24pts 13rebs? Another stat padding killer game by K. Love.

I will continue to criticize Love until ppl understand. When you have the best PF in the game....you are going to win games solely because of that reason, but not with Love.

Im not saying that he sucks, but whatever he does? however the way he plays? too hard? too much effort? iono what is it...but he doesnt win you basketball games.

And Wolves fans, you can argue all you want with me. But quote me on this....your record was 1 game over 0.500 before Love. Your record will be sub 0.500 w/Love until Ricky Rubio comes back.

Sota4Ever
11-24-2012, 02:04 AM
Does he guard pg and sg's???

Sota4Ever
11-24-2012, 02:06 AM
Then how come the Wolves were a winning team before KLove come back? How come the Wolves were in playoff contention last year until Rubio got injured?

Its not the Wolves lack of talent cause they were holding their own without Love up until this point.

Kevin Love is not winning basketball once again. What he have tnight? 24pts 13rebs? Another stat padding killer game by K. Love.

I will continue to criticize Love until ppl understand. When you have the best PF in the game....you are going to win games solely because of that reason, but not with Love.

Im not saying that he sucks, but whatever he does? however the way he plays? too hard? too much effort? iono what is it...but he doesnt win you basketball games.

And Wolves fans, you can argue all you want with me. But quote me on this....your record was 1 game over 0.500 before Love. Your record will be sub 0.500 w/Love until Ricky Rubio comes back.

I will 100% agree with you on that last part. It has nothing to do with Love. It has to do with getting Ridnour and JJ less minutes.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:13 AM
Then how come the Wolves were a winning team before KLove come back? How come the Wolves were in playoff contention last year until Rubio got injured?

Its not the Wolves lack of talent cause they were holding their own without Love up until this point.

Kevin Love is not winning basketball once again. What he have tnight? 24pts 13rebs? Another stat padding killer game by K. Love.

I will continue to criticize Love until ppl understand. When you have the best PF in the game....you are going to win games solely because of that reason, but not with Love.

Im not saying that he sucks, but whatever he does? however the way he plays? too hard? too much effort? iono what is it...but he doesnt win you basketball games.

Basketball is a team game...The Wolves were in playoff contention last year until Rubio went out because basketball is a team game, and the team lost its 2nd best player.

You are going on a two game sample size here for this season...the Wolves were .500 when Love returned, with some wins against some bad teams, or some depleted teams (one win against a legit Nets team)...now with Love back, they have losses against 2 teams above .500...and Love is playing with a broken hand, while at the same time, the team is adjusting to getting him back, as well as getting Pekovic and Bare back all at the same time. There is going to be an adjustment time when key players return, because the team is unfamiliar with those players.

What you are doing, is ignoring that Love was the majority reason why LA fouled out, and ignoring that the Wolves backcourt allowed the Blazers starting backcourt to get 58 points on 23/34 shooting...I guess it is Loves fault that the guys he wasnt guarding outplayed the Wolves backcourt...right?

Some people just don't understand that basketball is a team game, and while star players are the focal point, it still comes down to what the role players provide.

Also, in your rebuttal, make sure to ignore that Love is playing with a broken hand right now.

SLY WILLIAMS
11-24-2012, 02:27 AM
Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Smush Parker, Sasha Vujacic, Brian Cook

Pat Garity, Gordon Giricek, Drew Gooden, Daryl Armstrong, Steven Hunter

Tyrone Hill, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Derrick Coleman, George Lynch

Joel Anthony, Jermaine ONeal, Udonis Haslem, Mario Calmers, Jason Williams, Chris Quinn

Sasha Pavolic, Daniel Gibson, Anderson Varejao, Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall


Franchise players get their teams over 500 when they are supposed superstars, yet the best PF in the game can't. Something's not right, help or not ...


You are arguing correlation equals causation. It does not.

Kobe had below 500 years
Jordan had below 500 years
Ewing had below 500 years
Bernard King had below 500 years
Oscar Robertson had below 500 years
Kevin Garnett had below 500 years
Paul Pierce had below 500 years
Dwayne Wade had below 500 years
Moses Malone had below 500 years

Robert Horry has more rings than all of them. Does that mean he was a better player?

Kevin Love doesn't have to be able to carry his team single handedly to a 500 record be a very good player. There are going to be many all star players over the years that can not single handedly carry their teams to above 500 records since this is a team game with 5 guys playing for each team.

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:32 AM
Basketball is a team game...The Wolves were in playoff contention last year until Rubio went out because basketball is a team game, and the team lost its 2nd best player.

You are going on a two game sample size here for this season...the Wolves were .500 when Love returned, with some wins against some bad teams, or some depleted teams (one win against a legit Nets team)...now with Love back, they have losses against 2 teams above .500...and Love is playing with a broken hand, while at the same time, the team is adjusting to getting him back, as well as getting Pekovic and Bare back all at the same time. There is going to be an adjustment time when key players return, because the team is unfamiliar with those players.

What you are doing, is ignoring that Love was the majority reason why LA fouled out, and ignoring that the Wolves backcourt allowed the Blazers starting backcourt to get 58 points on 23/34 shooting...I guess it is Loves fault that the guys he wasnt guarding outplayed the Wolves backcourt...right?

Some people just don't understand that basketball is a team game, and while star players are the focal point, it still comes down to what the role players provide.

Also, in your rebuttal, make sure to ignore that Love is playing with a broken hand right now.

This has way more to do with just 2 games. This has been going on for some time. People get lost in the statistics and forget that it has to translate into wins.

I can go way back to Love's breakout season. 2010-2011 NBA season.

Wolves sported the WORST record in the NBA, which was 17 wins! 17 wins? are u kidding me? Now, to say you have a guy who averages 24pts 15rebs on you have the worst record in the NBA says something about yourself.

And no the Wolves did NOT have the worst roster in the league...that belonged to the Cavs who had their first season without Lebron James (and to make things worse Varejao was injured basically all year). Yet the Cavs managed more wins than the Wolves. The Wizards, the kings, the raptors....all had crap rosters too with no players near Love's caliber.

Yet the one team with the 24ppg 15rpg guy has the worst record

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:33 AM
You are arguing correlation equals causation. It does not.

Kobe had below 500 years
Jordan had below 500 years
Ewing had below 500 years
Bernard King had below 500 years
Oscar Robertson had below 500 years
Kevin Garnett had below 500 years
Paul Pierce had below 500 years
Dwayne Wade had below 500 years
Moses Malone had below 500 years

Robert Horry has more rings than many of them. Does that mean he was a better player?

Kevin Love doesn't have to be able to carry his team single handedly to a 500 record be a very good player. There are going to be many all star players over the years that can not single handedly carry their teams to above 500 records since this is a team game with 5 guys playing for each team.

Just to roll with this post for a bit...These players were on sub .500 teams because basketball is a team game. In almost every case here, the player was the same player he was post .500 years, but the teams record changed because the team got better. In no way is it right to compare Love to Lebron or MJ, but it is right to compare their situations. Star players who were on sub-par teams.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:42 AM
This has way more to do with just 2 games. This has been going on for some time. People get lost in the statistics and forget that it has to translate into wins.

I can go way back to Love's breakout season. 2010-2011 NBA season.

Wolves sported the WORST record in the NBA, which was 17 wins! 17 wins? are u kidding me? Now, to say you have a guy who averages 24pts 15rebs on you have the worst record in the NBA says something about yourself.

And no the Wolves did NOT have the worst roster in the league...that belonged to the Cavs who had their first season without Lebron James (and to make things worse Varejao was injured basically all year). Yet the Cavs managed more wins than the Wolves. The Wizards, the kings, the raptors....all had crap rosters too with no players near Love's caliber.

Yet the one team with the 24ppg 15rpg guy has the worst record

It still comes down to who you play with, and who you play against. Would the Wolves have had the worst record had they played in the East? That 2010 season that you speak of, featured a starting rotation of
Corey Brewer - current stats, 20 minutes per game, 38% shooting
Michael Beasley = 36% shooting
Jonny Flynn - out of the league
Darko Milicic - out of the league

Add in the super bench of Lazar Hayward (out of the league), Anthony Randolph (5 minutes played all season), Tolliver (27% shooting), Sebastian Telfair, etc...how can you reasonably expect a winning season?

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:43 AM
You are arguing correlation equals causation. It does not.

Kobe had below 500 years
Jordan had below 500 years
Ewing had below 500 years
Bernard King had below 500 years
Oscar Robertson had below 500 years
Kevin Garnett had below 500 years
Paul Pierce had below 500 years
Dwayne Wade had below 500 years
Moses Malone had below 500 years

Robert Horry has more rings than all of them. Does that mean he was a better player?

Kevin Love doesn't have to be able to carry his team single handedly to a 500 record be a very good player. There are going to be many all star players over the years that can not single handedly carry their teams to above 500 records since this is a team game with 5 guys playing for each team.

Its not just "below 0.500" years. Love's team is consistently one of the worst teams in the league. Sure all of those guys u named had sub-par years, but for how long? and how bad? Kevin Love never won more than 26 games in a season.

I've seen Blake Griffin, John Wall, Steve Nash, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, Kevin Garnett all play with similar crap rosters and while their teams werent good, they still show a record higher than Love's.

NokomisLiving
11-24-2012, 02:44 AM
Basketball is a team game...The Wolves were in playoff contention last year until Rubio went out because basketball is a team game, and the team lost its 2nd best player.

You are going on a two game sample size here for this season...the Wolves were .500 when Love returned, with some wins against some bad teams, or some depleted teams (one win against a legit Nets team)...now with Love back, they have losses against 2 teams above .500...and Love is playing with a broken hand, while at the same time, the team is adjusting to getting him back, as well as getting Pekovic and Bare back all at the same time. There is going to be an adjustment time when key players return, because the team is unfamiliar with those players.

What you are doing, is ignoring that Love was the majority reason why LA fouled out, and ignoring that the Wolves backcourt allowed the Blazers starting backcourt to get 58 points on 23/34 shooting...I guess it is Loves fault that the guys he wasnt guarding outplayed the Wolves backcourt...right?

Some people just don't understand that basketball is a team game, and while star players are the focal point, it still comes down to what the role players provide.

Also, in your rebuttal, make sure to ignore that Love is playing with a broken hand right now.

:clap: Thank you.

How can you expect a win when the other teams back court goes for 58 freaking points?! Ridnour/Lee/JJ were getting torched and were jacking up 3 6 seconds into the shot clock. Luke didn't have any ankles by the time Lilard was done with him.

Lets also take a look at some other factors. Ak47 has now had two very pedestrian games in a row after tearing it up in the beginning of the season.

Shved has also been non existent after providing good play and defense off the bench in the 4th, seeing his minutes replaced with Malcolm Lee.

Pek hasn't turned the corner yet, he is looking average and our back up bigs are pretty much worthless so far.

If you want to judge a guy based on wins/losses at least take into account so far the wing help is depleted with Rubio/Budinger/Roy all out, as well as just getting JJ and Pek back at the same time he returns.

It's crazy, the guy comes back early with a broken hand, is putting up double doubles on good efficiency and somehow isn't a winner and doesn't help his team win???

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:48 AM
It still comes down to who you play with, and who you play against. Would the Wolves have had the worst record had they played in the East? That 2010 season that you speak of, featured a starting rotation of
Corey Brewer - current stats, 20 minutes per game, 38% shooting
Michael Beasley = 36% shooting
Jonny Flynn - out of the league
Darko Milicic - out of the league

Add in the super bench of Lazar Hayward (out of the league), Anthony Randolph (5 minutes played all season), Tolliver (27% shooting), Sebastian Telfair, etc...how can you reasonably expect a winning season?

Im not expecting a winning season, but 17 wins is a joke when you have a player as "good" as Kevin Love. Im not expecting him to go win a championship, but to have the league's worst record when there are far worst teams in the league like the Wizards, Cavs, and Raptors says something. Those 3 teams I named sucked too, but somehow they managed ~20wins.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:48 AM
:clap: Thank you.

How can you expect a win when the other teams back court goes for 58 freaking points?! Ridnour/Lee/JJ were getting torched and were jacking up 3 6 seconds into the shot clock. Luke didn't have any ankles by the time Lilard was done with him.

Lets also take a look at some other factors. Ak47 has now had two very pedestrian games in a row after tearing it up in the beginning of the season.

Shved has also been non existent after providing good play and defense off the bench in the 4th, seeing his minutes replaced with Malcolm Lee.

Pek hasn't turned the corner yet, he is looking average and our back up bigs are pretty much worthless so far.

If you want to judge a guy based on wins/losses at least take into account so far the wing help is depleted with Rubio/Budinger/Roy all out, as well as just getting JJ and Pek back at the same time he returns.

It's crazy, the guy comes back early with a broken hand, is putting up double doubles on good efficiency and somehow isn't a winner and doesn't help his team win???

foolish...you can't judge teams based on role players, you can only judge them based on the stars.

Sota4Ever
11-24-2012, 02:49 AM
If you ain't winning championships like Melo then you just a stat padding scrub.

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:51 AM
:clap: Thank you.

How can you expect a win when the other teams back court goes for 58 freaking points?! Ridnour/Lee/JJ were getting torched and were jacking up 3 6 seconds into the shot clock. Luke didn't have any ankles by the time Lilard was done with him.

Lets also take a look at some other factors. Ak47 has now had two very pedestrian games in a row after tearing it up in the beginning of the season.

Shved has also been non existent after providing good play and defense off the bench in the 4th, seeing his minutes replaced with Malcolm Lee.

Pek hasn't turned the corner yet, he is looking average and our back up bigs are pretty much worthless so far.

If you want to judge a guy based on wins/losses at least take into account so far the wing help is depleted with Rubio/Budinger/Roy all out, as well as just getting JJ and Pek back at the same time he returns.

It's crazy, the guy comes back early with a broken hand, is putting up double doubles on good efficiency and somehow isn't a winner and doesn't help his team win???

I wish it was Rubio who was back early and not Love.....and you'll see who your "REAL" franchise player is.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:51 AM
Im not expecting a winning season, but 17 wins is a joke when you have a player as "good" as Kevin Love. Im not expecting him to go win a championship, but to have the league's worst record when there are far worst teams in the league like the Wizards, Cavs, and Raptors says something. Those 3 teams I named sucked too, but somehow they managed ~20wins.

The NBA east man...the east. Can you tell me the Wolves record would have been the same had the team played in the east? add in that that 2010 Wolves team started 2 players who are now out of the league...I think what you should be blaming is the roster/front office/coaching (the coach of that team is now out of the league), not one player.

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:52 AM
If you ain't winning championships like Melo then you just a stat padding scrub.

Why is Melo even in this discussion? #youmad

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 02:54 AM
foolish...you can't judge teams based on role players, you can only judge them based on the stars.

It is the stars who make role players better though.....and Love simply doesnt do this. Ask Steve Nash and even Kevin Garnett they'll help you on that one.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:56 AM
I wish it was Rubio who was back early and not Love.....and you'll see who your "REAL" franchise player is.

Most of Wolves fans agree that Rubio is a franchise player...he just isnt the best player on the roster...and, are you saying that the Wolves would have won the last two games against teams over .500 with Rubio coming back, and without Love?

People who believe Love's stats are empty need to look at the +/- statistic...I am not an advocate of the +/-, but it only makes sense that you guys are...in Loves first game back he went +10...so, if he played every minute, the team would have apparently won...right? Tonight he did go -2...

I mean, the Wolves played 2 teams who will be in the playoff picture towards the end of the season, Love is playing with a broken hand, the Wolves backcourt is leaking points...but Love is to blame????:confused:

The team lost because the team was outplayed, not because of one person.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 02:57 AM
It is the stars who make role players better though.....and Love simply doesnt do this. Ask Steve Nash and even Kevin Garnett they'll help you on that one.

KG was viewed as an underachiever until he joined Pierce and Allen...

THE MTL
11-24-2012, 03:00 AM
Most of Wolves fans agree that Rubio is a franchise player...he just isnt the best player on the roster...and, are you saying that the Wolves would have won the last two games against teams over .500 with Rubio coming back, and without Love?

People who believe Love's stats are empty need to look at the +/- statistic...I am not an advocate of the +/-, but it only makes sense that you guys are...in Loves first game back he went +10...so, if he played every minute, the team would have apparently won...right? Tonight he did go -2...

I mean, the Wolves played 2 teams who will be in the playoff picture towards the end of the season, Love is playing with a broken hand, the Wolves backcourt is leaking points...but Love is to blame????:confused:

The team lost because the team was outplayed, not because of one person.

It is NEVER because of one person and Im not saying that Love sucks. To get 24ppg 15rpg is an incredible feat but Im saying that he is overrated and majority of his stats dont translate to wins. Im saying that he is NOT a franchise player and to call yourself the best PF in the league is a stretch when you dont win much games.

Seriously though, you'll win more games with Rubio averaging 11ppg 8apg 2spg than with Love averaging 24ppg 15rpg.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 03:02 AM
It is NEVER because of one person and Im not saying that Love sucks. To get 24ppg 15rpg is an incredible feat but Im saying that he is overrated and majority of his stats dont translate to wins.

You'll win more games with Rubio averaging 11ppg 8apg 2spg than with Love averaging 24ppg 15rpg.

We will win more games when Rubio returns because he is a good player, being teamed with a good player.

And regarding your previous post, I failed to mention that he made players like Beasley, Darko, Hayward, Flynn, etc...better. Just look at the stats of those terrible players when they played with Love as compare to now.

topdog
11-24-2012, 03:32 AM
Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Smush Parker, Sasha Vujacic, Brian Cook

Pat Garity, Gordon Giricek, Drew Gooden, Daryl Armstrong, Steven Hunter

Tyrone Hill, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Derrick Coleman, George Lynch

Joel Anthony, Jermaine ONeal, Udonis Haslem, Mario Calmers, Jason Williams, Chris Quinn

Sasha Pavolic, Daniel Gibson, Anderson Varejao, Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall


Franchise players get their teams over 500 when they are supposed superstars, yet the best PF in the game can't. Something's not right, help or not ...

Where's the power forward example? You can argue all you want about some very specific wings (and guys who weren't still on their rookie contract), but they are still wings and they are still very specific "top 5" players.

Regardless, let's talk about Dwayne Wade and how the Heat followed up a championship with a season only 6 games over .500 (with pretty much the same roster) and followed that up by only winning 15 games the next year. He apparently was just padding those 24.5pts and 7ast :rolleyes:

kblo247
11-24-2012, 04:09 AM
Wade was hurt, the one year he missed the playoffs, he came off of knee surgery and didn't return to form.

Kobe was hurt the one year he missed, they had a coach change in the middle of the year, and he only laced 44 games with Lamar and Caron, but when they played they were the sixth seed record wise before they all went down for different reasons.

The fact is those two missed it once by being hurt. Love hasn't missed the playoffs because he was hurt, he's missed em while playing and posting numbers year after year because he's not a superstar who can put a team on his back and get his numbers while winning games. If he would sacrifice four or five of those tap ins he does to pad his rebounding count, and put that same energy on showing on D, blocking some shots to deter people from coming in the lane, or defending his guy they would be better IMO.,

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 04:21 AM
are you really insinuating that Love purposely misses shots so that he can tap them in?

naps
11-24-2012, 04:27 AM
Regardless, let's talk about Dwayne Wade and how the Heat followed up a championship with a season only 6 games over .500 (with pretty much the same roster) and followed that up by only winning 15 games the next year. He apparently was just padding those 24.5pts and 7ast :rolleyes:

Need some history lesson on Wade? Pretty sure you were too young to know what happened in 2007 :facepalm:

GoldyGopher
11-24-2012, 04:30 AM
Need some history lesson on Wade? Pretty sure you were too young to know what happened in 2007 :facepalm:

:facepalm:

to you good sir

GoldyGopher
11-24-2012, 04:32 AM
Wade was hurt, the one year he missed the playoffs, he came off of knee surgery and didn't return to form.

Kobe was hurt the one year he missed, they had a coach change in the middle of the year, and he only laced 44 games with Lamar and Caron, but when they played they were the sixth seed record wise before they all went down for different reasons.

The fact is those two missed it once by being hurt. Love hasn't missed the playoffs because he was hurt, he's missed em while playing and posting numbers year after year because he's not a superstar who can put a team on his back and get his numbers while winning games. If he would sacrifice four or five of those tap ins he does to pad his rebounding count, and put that same energy on showing on D, blocking some shots to deter people from coming in the lane, or defending his guy they would be better IMO.,




That's an interesting take on a familiar subject...

el hidalgo
11-24-2012, 04:33 AM
love is one of my favorite players. often disrespected, but amazing. i really hope he joins the bulls with drose... make it happen

GoldyGopher
11-24-2012, 04:36 AM
Okay, first of all, can the people responding please take note of who is disputing the fact of love being a franchise power forward. Nothing against these guys. But, lets be honest here...

kblo247
11-24-2012, 04:40 AM
I'm just saying a young Fat Curry put in more fake hustle on D than Love does. It makes no sense how a guy that can rebound like that, can't put in any effort at all in defensive rotations. Even if he ain't a high fly act, take a damn charge, or use those hands for steals. He's really bad on that end at anything besides getting a board, and he doesn't even box out guys so his teammates can get em. Is sad to watch because he isn't helping his team these past two games, as there has been a total defensive let up from what they were getting from Cunningham and AK at the 4, and that comes from him not setting any tone by even trying.

Hell even if he can't play team d, play some damn man D with his size. If he can position himself to rebound like he does, position your damn body and feet to take away guys comfort zone and contest shots, like Karl and Barkley used to be able to even though they were smallish in height

kblo247
11-24-2012, 04:41 AM
are you really insinuating that Love purposely misses shots so that he can tap them in?

Yep I'm saying he's known to pull a damn Moses over making the initial shot to pad his count, and he's been called on it before by Max and Marcellus, as well as Stephen A.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 04:47 AM
oh em gee

I was just told that Kevin Love gives less effort than Eddy Curry, and that he purposely misses shots.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 04:48 AM
Okay, first of all, can the people responding please take note of who is disputing the fact of love being a franchise power forward. Nothing against these guys. But, lets be honest here...

A franchise PF is Dirk, Duncan, Barkley, Sheed when he cared, and KG. all of who,e when they got numbers out a damn stamp on the game, by dominating and making their presence felt to lift their teams to win.

It's bull plain and simple that Al Jefferson wasn't a franchise player when he was getting 20 and 10 or Zach Randolph or David Lee, because they were winning and elevating their team to compete and be relevant, yet Love gets a pass.

It's even bigger bs that guys who are actual superstars and win games while getting their numbers, even if they don't pop the cherry of stat freaks ala Melo or Kobe always, get shirt and their motives or level question when the only reason you play the damn game is to win games and titles, not per, not shares, not other ********, but win games in the w or l column and make the playoffs. Just ****ing stupid logic to me, and its unjustifiable

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 04:49 AM
I am not sure what I cant get over more...

Being told that missing shots somehow pads your stats, or that Eddy Curry gives more effort than Kevin Love.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 04:51 AM
oh em gee

I was just told that Kevin Love gives less effort than Eddy Curry, and that he purposely misses shots.

I said more fake hustle. Curry put in some damn fake hustle and acted like he wanted to challenge shots evenif late as a Baby Bull. Love doesn't even contest in help situations, show hard, or try on that end. Is night and day the effort he's giving on that end at PF and what AK and Cunnignham gave to start the season.

Rambis benched his *** at the end if games because he didn't try to defend, and Rambis still sticks with it being the right decision to this day dispie management not liking it.

Who is going to try on that end when their star doesn't give a **** and can't hold anyone accountable because he doesn't try to defend?

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 04:58 AM
k, now, on top of missing shots somehow pads your stats, and Curry giving more effort than Love...

I now have the same guy using coach Kurt Rambis as support of his points.

Love by the way, is a fairly average defensive player. In no ways great, and in no ways bad.

GoldyGopher
11-24-2012, 05:06 AM
I said more fake hustle. Curry put in some damn fake hustle and acted like he wanted to challenge shots evenif late as a Baby Bull. Love doesn't even contest in help situations, show hard, or try on that end. Is night and day the effort he's giving on that end at PF and what AK and Cunnignham gave to start the season.

Rambis benched his *** at the end if games because he didn't try to defend, and Rambis still sticks with it being the right decision to this day dispie management not liking it.

Who is going to try on that end when their star doesn't give a **** and can't hold anyone accountable because he doesn't try to defend?

I guess I'm just a little confused by the Knicks fan bringing up melo and how he doesn't get a fair shake with win shares and advanced statistics, meanwhile posting that the superstar needs to set the tone on defense.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 05:17 AM
Melo is setting a tone out there, out of position mind you by fighting at PF. If love gave that effort, regardless of result, but simply effort on that end I think his stats would deflate some because of energy consumption but his team would win more. He would at least be setting an accountability level that says you have to try, which they were doing to start the year with AK and Cunnigham at 4.

PurpleJesus
11-24-2012, 05:19 AM
Melo is setting a tone out there, out of position mind you by fighting at PF. If love gave that effort, regardless of result, but simply effort on that end I think his stats would deflate some because of energy consumption but his team would win more. He would at least be setting an accountability level that says you have to try, which they were doing to start the year with AK and Cunnigham at 4.

Love gives a **** load of effort man...watch a game or two.

and now, on top of you saying missing shots pad your stats, Eddy Curry gives more effort, and using coach Rambis as support, you have now said a team is better off with Cunningham as the PF than Love...

GoldyGopher
11-24-2012, 05:40 AM
Melo is setting a tone out there, out of position mind you by fighting at PF. If love gave that effort, regardless of result, but simply effort on that end I think his stats would deflate some because of energy consumption but his team would win more. He would at least be setting an accountability level that says you have to try, which they were doing to start the year with AK and Cunnigham at 4.

I respect the concern you have for the Timberwolves losing the first two games with Love coming back early from a broken hand. However, I think every single person you talk to who WATCHES the Minnesota Timberwolves would not complain about Kevin Love's effort; whether that be on the offensive end, defensive end, or throwing the ball off of the backboard to pad his stats. If a leader is supposed to lead by example through setting the tone by effort, I simply cannot see how one basketball fan would suggest that Carmelo Anthony does that more in all phases than Kevin Love does for his team. To each their own, I guess.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 06:51 AM
I've watched both the wolves and Knicks. You know LP does have an archive after all, and there is a vast difference from the effort Melo is putting in on D out of position than what Love is putting in at PF. Melo fights every minute he's out there on both ends right now, not just one, while Love can't say the same

Swashcuff
11-24-2012, 08:24 AM
I'm just saying a young Fat Curry put in more fake hustle on D than Love does. It makes no sense how a guy that can rebound like that, can't put in any effort at all in defensive rotations. Even if he ain't a high fly act, take a damn charge, or use those hands for steals. He's really bad on that end at anything besides getting a board, and he doesn't even box out guys so his teammates can get em. Is sad to watch because he isn't helping his team these past two games, as there has been a total defensive let up from what they were getting from Cunningham and AK at the 4, and that comes from him not setting any tone by even trying.

Hell even if he can't play team d, play some damn man D with his size. If he can position himself to rebound like he does, position your damn body and feet to take away guys comfort zone and contest shots, like Karl and Barkley used to be able to even though they were smallish in height

And that's all we need to know about your knowledge on Kevin Love and why you can't EVER make any sense whatsoever when discussing Kevin Love. You must believe Griffin, Durant and Dirk are all still poor defensive player too right? :rolleyes: Last season Kevin Love gave way more effort defensively and it reflected on his impact on the defensive end. It was sentiments echoed by his coaches, teammates and the #s back it up.

You however got a nonsensical opinion based on nothing but idiotic hogwash but you think you know something. Dude watch some basketball before you speak.

Do some research on Kevin Love's man D. It wasn't by chance LMA had such an awful game last night.

kblo247
11-24-2012, 08:25 AM
I would watch some more Love basketball but he doesn't play in may to be judged like true franchise players where they make their name

And yeah it wasnt by his defense either LA had a bad game, unless if you want to call his best defense his offense and drawing fouls

Swashcuff
11-24-2012, 08:30 AM
Need some history lesson on Wade? Pretty sure you were too young to know what happened in 2007 :facepalm:

When Wade was healthy his team's winning % was worse than Kevin Love's ever been. The same road bumps Wade faced in that season Love has faced his entire career as a #1 player in Minny.

Poor coaching? ✔
Extremely poor supporting casts? ✔
Injuries to key supporting players? ✔

Unlike Love though Wade played in the Eastern Conference and was a better player than Love ever was (though he was nursing injuries while he was on the floor) but honestly even a healthy Wade wasn't taking that Miami team over or maybe ever near .500 why? Because of all that was going on around him. This is a team game and unless you have the support of your teammates then there is no way you're going to be successful.

Swashcuff
11-24-2012, 08:34 AM
I would watch some basketball but he doesn't play in may

OMG did you think of that all on your own? You should get a pat on your back.

I dare you to read up on Kevin Love's D and watch his team play and tell me he is a poor man defender. Hell even tell me he is a poor defender period. You are the same guy who blamed Love for the Wolves losing last night when it was hot PERIMETER shooting by the Blazer's starting guards that gave them the upper hand in the 2nd half.

Chronz
11-24-2012, 01:11 PM
Seriously though, you'll win more games with Rubio averaging 11ppg 8apg 2spg than with Love averaging 24ppg 15rpg.

Seriously tho, they wouldn't

Chronz
11-24-2012, 01:16 PM
Yep I'm saying he's known to pull a damn Moses over making the initial shot to pad his count, and he's been called on it before by Max and Marcellus, as well as Stephen A.

Even if its true, which you should provide proof of.

So what? It doesnt do anything to his or the teams statline, so its not padding. Unless your a complete dumbass when it comes to stats, ala those idiots.

Aleksandar
11-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Seriously tho, they wouldn't

Actually, I think we would. Rubio has much more impact than it may be shown by statistics. Also, our backup PGs are terrible, while Love's backup, Cunningham, has shown to be extremely valuable player. Somewhat limited, but he makes the most of himself.

Our greatest weakness so far was defense against fast/strong PGs. People like Lowry, George Hill, Lawson and Lillard torched us. Healthy Rubio would be so valuable in that department.

shen
11-24-2012, 02:34 PM
In 37 minutes Lillard had 28 points 8 assists 4 rebounds 1 block while shooting 11/17 and picking up 0 fouls and also having 0 turn overs. Some how Kevin Love in a loss still gets more attention. Something wrong with that.

topdog
11-24-2012, 03:11 PM
Need some history lesson on Wade? Pretty sure you were too young to know what happened in 2007 :facepalm:

Pretty sure you're distracting from the fact that Wade played no less than 51 games prior to last year and that should be good enough to win more than 15 games according to how people are judging Love. He did average over 24 and 7 both years after all :eyebrow:

topdog
11-24-2012, 03:13 PM
In 37 minutes Lillard had 28 points 8 assists 4 rebounds 1 block while shooting 11/17 and picking up 0 fouls and also having 0 turn overs. Some how Kevin Love in a loss still gets more attention. Something wrong with that.

Lillard's four years of college really shows. I knew he was good, but some of the things he did were really unexpected. On the other side of things, Minnesota fans were wondering what a difference there might have been made by having Rubio out there instead of a stop sign.

bucketss
11-24-2012, 03:27 PM
I've watched both the wolves and Knicks. You know LP does have an archive after all, and there is a vast difference from the effort Melo is putting in on D out of position than what Love is putting in at PF. Melo fights every minute he's out there on both ends right now, not just one, while Love can't say the same

you're an amazing troll.

Chronz
11-24-2012, 05:14 PM
Seriously tho, they wouldn't

Actually, I think we would. Rubio has much more impact than it may be shown by statistics. Also, our backup PGs are terrible, while Love's backup, Cunningham, has shown to be extremely valuable player. Somewhat limited, but he makes the most of himself.

Our greatest weakness so far was defense against fast/strong PGs. People like Lowry, George Hill, Lawson and Lillard torched us. Healthy Rubio would be so valuable in that department.
Small sample theater. Sorry I have a hard time believing Cunningham is a "very valuable player". I've echoed the same things about Rubio but Love is not without his intangibles. Need more proof before we start anointing Rubio of having that kind of impact

Bluntz
11-24-2012, 06:11 PM
It's only two losses in a row because people aren't making shots.. These things happen. It has absolutely nothing to do with Love lol.

THE MTL
11-25-2012, 01:09 AM
Small sample theater. Sorry I have a hard time believing Cunningham is a "very valuable player". I've echoed the same things about Rubio but Love is not without his intangibles. Need more proof before we start anointing Rubio of having that kind of impact

what kind of impact?.......Your boy K.Love's stats sure dont have no kind of impact the Wolves record

Chronz
11-25-2012, 02:16 AM
what kind of impact?.......Your boy K.Love's stats sure dont have no kind of impact the Wolves record

Uhhh they are on the same team buddy

kblo247
11-25-2012, 02:50 AM
I got to go there W/L column only stat that matters, and Love sure ain't putting in any Ws. He's regressed his team on the defensive end, as well as AK and its biting em in the ***.

Good game, good effort though stat padding vs "David Lees empty winning stats"

topdog
11-25-2012, 03:15 AM
I got to go there W/L column only stat that matters, and Love sure ain't putting in any Ws. He's regressed his team on the defensive end, as well as AK and its biting em in the ***.

Good game, good effort though stat padding vs "David Lees empty winning stats"

You do know that this is an 82 game season right? How about you have some patience and bump this thread once there is something to talk about.

kblo247
11-25-2012, 05:17 AM
0-3 each with him having big numbers yet the team not winning isn't important or relevant.

You know damn well Kobe, Melo, Westbrook, Lee, young Zach would all eat **** for this type of results while having those numbers and have their ability to make others better and adapt to winning while sacrificing individual glory brought up

Guppyfighter
11-25-2012, 05:28 AM
John Hollinger said with K-Love out the Twolves had a win curvature of only one less. I think that is showing now.

Swashcuff
11-25-2012, 07:16 AM
I got to go there W/L column only stat that matters, and Love sure ain't putting in any Ws. He's regressed his team on the defensive end, as well as AK and its biting em in the ***.

Good game, good effort though stat padding vs "David Lees empty winning stats"

I hope this thread resurfaces when the Wolves win 8 of 10 and get back into the playoff hunt thanks to Love.

BullsFTW
11-25-2012, 08:19 AM
i don't understand the K-Love bashing. He's an awesome player in my opinion and would love to have him in Chicago next to D-Rose.

I just think the T-Wolves are being exposed. Thy caught fire early in the season but I figured they won't maintain that pace in an 82-game season. Let's face it, they haven't really played the top tier teams in the league, so their eventual losing streak was inevitable, and not caused by the return of Kevin Love.

AnthonyTyrael
11-25-2012, 08:41 AM
First of all Bulls would be glad to have Rose back way before you can think about pairing him with anybody. It's about time that he returns. It feels like he missed a whole season already with injuries and lockout.

Rubio, Love and Petkovic were fun to watch last year besides all their troubles they had to face.

SLY WILLIAMS
11-25-2012, 01:31 PM
I got to go there W/L column only stat that matters, and Love sure ain't putting in any Ws.

Dwight Howard=0 rings

Luc Longley=3 rings

If W/L column is the only stat that matters then according to your reasoning Longley must have been better than Dwight Howard.

BklynKnicks3
11-25-2012, 05:12 PM
I been preaching bout love n his empty numbers 2 years now people learning 7th best player in nba = lmao

29$JerZ
11-25-2012, 05:13 PM
I been preaching bout love n his empty numbers 2 years now people learning 7th best player in nba = lmao

He's still better than Melo

topdog
11-25-2012, 05:31 PM
i don't understand the K-Love bashing. He's an awesome player in my opinion and would love to have him in Chicago next to D-Rose.

I just think the T-Wolves are being exposed. Thy caught fire early in the season but I figured they won't maintain that pace in an 82-game season. Let's face it, they haven't really played the top tier teams in the league, so their eventual losing streak was inevitable, and not caused by the return of Kevin Love.

If anyone really pays attention to the Wolves, they will notice that opposing backcourts are absolutely killing them. The games they've won have primarily come against teams with slower/nobody PGs (Brooklyn, Orlando) or where the opposition has failed to take full advantage of the PG matchup (Dallas, Indy, Sacramento).

Check the game logs. Bigs are not generally having great games against the Wolves, but PGs are having career games against the Wolves Ridnour/Barea PG tandem. People fail to realize how important Rubio is for his defense.

Guppyfighter
11-25-2012, 06:03 PM
If anyone really pays attention to the Wolves, they will notice that opposing backcourts are absolutely killing them. The games they've won have primarily come against teams with slower/nobody PGs (Brooklyn, Orlando) or where the opposition has failed to take full advantage of the PG matchup (Dallas, Indy, Sacramento).

Check the game logs. Bigs are not generally having great games against the Wolves, but PGs are having career games against the Wolves Ridnour/Barea PG tandem. People fail to realize how important Rubio is for his defense.

Backcourt outscored 44-2 against the Warriors.

Yep

topdog
11-25-2012, 06:06 PM
Here's a telling stat about the Wolves: the best 2 backcourt players on a given night for the opposition have shot 51.9% against the Wolves on the season (51.0% in Love's 3 games). The best 2 froncourt players have shot 42.8% (50.3% in Love's games).

So, yes the frountcourt defense has gotten worse with Love (in limited action against better teams) while the froncourt offense has improved, but the backcourt has consistently allowed the opposition's top 2 wings to score an average of 38.25 points on 51.9% shooting. That is terrible!

kblo247
11-25-2012, 09:00 PM
Here's a telling stat about the Wolves: the best 2 backcourt players on a given night for the opposition have shot 51.9% against the Wolves on the season (51.0% in Love's 3 games). The best 2 froncourt players have shot 42.8% (50.3% in Love's games).

So, yes the frountcourt defense has gotten worse with Love (in limited action against better teams) while the froncourt offense has improved, but the backcourt has consistently allowed the opposition's top 2 wings to score an average of 38.25 points on 51.9% shooting. That is terrible!

FC are supported to provide an anchor and help. The pnr d they played on the Warriors Gs were horrible. You may as well name anyone not named AK or Ham, Shaq because there was absolutely no showing, hedging, switching on those picks let alone trying to anchor the paint with shot blocking or charges after Barnes welcomed their line intimidation to his poster.

Love can help if he outs some those same iq points he uses for boards on team D. I mean I already know their man d is worse with him playing as his best man d is fouling you out or getting you in the penalty on O but no excuse for worse team D than they were playing without him at the 4

BklynKnicks3
11-26-2012, 01:30 PM
kevin love = loser i been tellin u people this he is top 5 player in the nba in fantasy but we talkin real life. When he is part of a playoff team he will be a 18 and 10 guy he is not a first option in this league. Its funny how the best 5 players in nba are the 5 leading mvp canidates. Lebron melo durant cp3 kobe

topdog
11-26-2012, 06:17 PM
FC are supported to provide an anchor and help. The pnr d they played on the Warriors Gs were horrible. You may as well name anyone not named AK or Ham, Shaq because there was absolutely no showing, hedging, switching on those picks let alone trying to anchor the paint with shot blocking or charges after Barnes welcomed their line intimidation to his poster.

Love can help if he outs some those same iq points he uses for boards on team D. I mean I already know their man d is worse with him playing as his best man d is fouling you out or getting you in the penalty on O but no excuse for worse team D than they were playing without him at the 4

While I won't argue that there are issues with hedging and defense by Love, but that doesn't change the fact that opposing guards have been putting up big numbers on over 50% shooting all year.

kblo247
11-26-2012, 09:46 PM
While I won't argue that there are issues with hedging and defense by Love, but that doesn't change the fact that opposing guards have been putting up big numbers on over 50% shooting all year.

I see a lack of shot blocking as well now. AK and Cunningham contest shots better, in fact AK started off real well swatting the ball with more mins at the 4. They lack that now as Pek and Love are more flat footed, lord bless Peks sould for trying to contest Barnes, but yeah if they can't block shots with those two they got to take some charges like Varejao or get more strips ala Karl Malone

topdog
11-26-2012, 10:34 PM
I see a lack of shot blocking as well now. AK and Cunningham contest shots better, in fact AK started off real well swatting the ball with more mins at the 4. They lack that now as Pek and Love are more flat footed, lord bless Peks sould for trying to contest Barnes, but yeah if they can't block shots with those two they got to take some charges like Varejao or get more strips ala Karl Malone

Love needs to do a better job in the defensive departmart for sure, but he isn't all the way back yet and is trying to player hero a little too much right now. Last year, he seemed to be taking more charges and he and Pek don't block shots but they do block lanes and body up.

My argument is simply that nothing in the way the Wolves have played so far suggests that any other bigs would make a marked difference with the Wolves' terrible backcourt defense. Again, the frontcourt opposition numbers have gone up with Love, but the backcourt numbers remain at the same horrendous levels.

By no means is Love my favorite player, but I don't buy the flack either about him being a "stats only" player.

ChiSox219
11-26-2012, 11:19 PM
My argument is simply that nothing in the way the Wolves have played so far suggests that any other bigs would make a marked difference with the Wolves' terrible backcourt defense.


this guy would help:

http://youtu.be/VaeI357Rqi4

topdog
11-26-2012, 11:59 PM
this guy would help:

http://youtu.be/VaeI357Rqi4

We already had Lionel Hollins :p

Blocked shots are overrated. Also, interior players can't guard both their man and the guard's man so again - blocks don't do a whole lot for the Wolves (who were one of the league leaders this year and are currently tied at 7th with the Clippers).

jam
11-27-2012, 02:10 AM
When Wade was healthy his team's winning % was worse than Kevin Love's ever been. The same road bumps Wade faced in that season Love has faced his entire career as a #1 player in Minny.

Poor coaching? WRONG.

Rick Adelman is a very good nba coach.

Extremely poor supporting casts? DISAGREE.

Rubio is a good player. Beasley was a good player. Darko wasn't bad at all. The Wolves were a .500 team until Rubio was injured, and very competitive. At that point, even with Love in the lineup posting huge numbers, the Wolves were horrendously bad.

Injuries to key supporting players?

The injury to Rubio was huge. No disputing that. But the Wolves were absolutely abysmal with Love in the lineup, posting crazy numbers, but with rubio out. The conclusion is unavoidable: Love is absolutely not a franchise caliber player.



Don't compare Wade and Love. That's just silly. Wade is a superior combo guard. The second best in the game for a decade.

Love on the other hand, has been on some of the worst teams in the league: between 17 and 28 wins every year prior to this season. That's just disturbing. There is absolutely no way Love can be ranked as top 10 player under those circumstances.

Swashcuff
11-27-2012, 07:23 AM
Don't compare Wade and Love. That's just silly. Wade is a superior combo guard. The second best in the game for a decade.

Love on the other hand, has been on some of the worst teams in the league: between 17 and 28 wins every year prior to this season. That's just disturbing. There is absolutely no way Love can be ranked as top 10 player under those circumstances.

If you don't understand and argument STAY OUT.

This was a comparison of Love in his first season of being a #1 option (10-11) to Wade's 07-08. Again I repeat if you don't understand an argument STAY OUT.

BklynKnicks3
11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
He's still better than Melo

lmao david lee > melo

JayW_1023
11-27-2012, 03:09 PM
As great as his numbers are, him being the go to guy makes the Wolves' offense less dynamic.

I do love (no pun intended) his individual game, but the Wolves are probably better off with a more balanced offensive attack right now.

Love is a great second option on a contender, that type of guy.

thechom80
11-27-2012, 05:08 PM
this guy would help:

http://youtu.be/VaeI357Rqi4

Deron has been probably the only guard our backcourt has handled.

ChiSox219
11-27-2012, 08:19 PM
We already had Lionel Hollins :p

Blocked shots are overrated. Also, interior players can't guard both their man and the guard's man so again - blocks don't do a whole lot for the Wolves (who were one of the league leaders this year and are currently tied at 7th with the Clippers).

I haven't watched the Wolves much but since Love's return the team has allowed 71.9 FG% at the rim.

First 9 games Wolves allowed 58.4% at the rim

Attempts allowed at rim first nine games: 21.8
Last 3: 21.3

Shot blocker would help but Blake also takes more charges.

topdog
11-27-2012, 08:26 PM
I haven't watched the Wolves much but since Love's return the team has allowed 71.9 FG% at the rim.

First 9 games Wolves allowed 58.4% at the rim

Attempts allowed at rim first nine games: 21.8
Last 3: 21.3

Shot blocker would help but Blake also takes more charges.

Three games is a small sample size, but the Wolves were I think #2 at one point in blocks and still were giving up 50%+ shooting to wings. A lot of it is short jumpers because the Wolves guards lag off with not being able to stay in front on drives.

The increase at the rim recently is likely opposing bigs as they have begun to shoot better against the Wolves since Love's return.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 08:27 PM
stat stuffer. He sucks.

iliketurtles24
11-27-2012, 08:33 PM
stat stuffer. He sucks.

get out.

ChiSox219
11-27-2012, 08:42 PM
Three games is a small sample size, but the Wolves were I think #2 at one point in blocks and still were giving up 50%+ shooting to wings. A lot of it is short jumpers because the Wolves guards lag off with not being able to stay in front on drives.

The increase at the rim recently is likely opposing bigs as they have begun to shoot better against the Wolves since Love's return.

It's an ongoing problem for the Wolves though not just three games, they were 20th last year and 25th the year before defending the rim.

ChiSox219
11-27-2012, 08:48 PM
stat stuffer. He sucks.

Love gonna guard Blake on Wednesday?

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 08:57 PM
Love gonna guard Blake on Wednesday?

Love can't guard Blake, he is horrible.

I am so sick of the ****ing Love threads. I really don't give a **** at this point.

AddiX
11-27-2012, 09:38 PM
Love can't guard Blake, he is horrible.

I am so sick of the ****ing Love threads. I really don't give a **** at this point.

We were sick of minny fans bumping loves 30-30 thread everyday. Damn thing went on all season!

Only thing worse than the love fans is the chicago/Derek rose fans who have almost completely deserted psd. You couldn't go in any thread without them talking up rose.

Now where's those sexy advanced stats you got for us. :D

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 09:48 PM
We were sick of minny fans bumping loves 30-30 thread everyday. Damn thing went on all season!

Only thing worse than the love fans is the chicago/Derek rose fans who have almost completely deserted psd. You couldn't go in any thread without them talking up rose.

Now where's those sexy advanced stats you got for us. :D

yep. He sucks. Worthless contract. He is terrible.

You got me dude. His all star appearances are a joke, his all NBA team is a joke, should have been left off the Olympic team, all of it.

Love sucks. Stat stuffer. Will never make the playoffs. He is so overrated.

We cool now?

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 09:49 PM
last post I have regarding Love threads. Seriously. I am exhausted.

**** him. Overrated. Stat stuffer. You name it.

Sota4Ever
11-27-2012, 10:17 PM
I would rather have brian scalabrine than Kevin Love. At least he can make the playoffs..

AddiX
11-27-2012, 10:21 PM
We were cool before, doesn't mean I'm not gonna bust your balls anymore.

topdog
11-27-2012, 10:21 PM
It's an ongoing problem for the Wolves though not just three games, they were 20th last year and 25th the year before defending the rim.

And the Wolves have essentially the same guards as last year now that Budinger, Rubio and Roy are injured...

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 10:21 PM
I would rather have brian scalabrine than Kevin Love. At least he can make the playoffs..

fact

AddiX
11-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Besides, most if these dudes are banwaggin love haters, I been true to my hate for him since day one.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
Besides, most if these dudes are banwaggin love haters, I been true to my hate for him since day one.

totally. My eyes are open. he ****ing sucks, and is a stat stuffer. The dude barely belongs in the NBA.

Sota4Ever
11-27-2012, 10:36 PM
totally. My eyes are open. he ****ing sucks, and is a stat stuffer. The dude barely belongs in the NBA.

We should have held onto Mayo... Thank you again Mcfail

AddiX
11-27-2012, 10:37 PM
totally. My eyes are open. he ****ing sucks, and is a stat stuffer. The dude barely belongs in the Lists of all time greats I compare him to.

fixed that for ya..

Hawkeye15
11-27-2012, 10:38 PM
fixed that for ya..

not really dawg. You didn't fix ****, you simply put words in my mouth.

Like I said, thanks for opening my eyes. He sucks. Embarrassed he is on my team.

Lets move on....

ZamboniCub
11-27-2012, 10:56 PM
basketball psd is full of the worst homers.
every day its subjective threads about whos the "best"
no stats to back up anything just open ended accusations
2 games into the season people make their allstar lists
bunch of homers
respect the game

Chronz
11-28-2012, 01:10 PM
Love gonna guard Blake on Wednesday?

Who else is he gonna guard?

PS I got tix again, been watching this matchup unfold for the past 3 years.

Wisdom Listens
11-28-2012, 01:30 PM
I will pick up the Love defending for you Hawkeye. We can't let the ignorant be victorious.

Give me your arguments for why you hate Love AddiX. I will be happy to prove you wrong.

BklynKnicks3
11-28-2012, 01:41 PM
No reason to hate love he is just a over rated stat stuffer if u are winning 30 games whats the point of ur numbers. His team is 30 win team without him 35 win team with him. Fantasy basketball ruined reality.

Swashcuff
11-28-2012, 01:54 PM
I will pick up the Love defending for you Hawkeye. We can't let the ignorant be victorious.

Give me your arguments for why you hate Love AddiX. I will be happy to prove you wrong.

Dude from the mere fact that he said he hates Love he has proven that he's already wrong. You can't prove an id*** wrong. An id*** will always be an id*** not matter what.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2012, 02:26 PM
Who else is he gonna guard?

PS I got tix again, been watching this matchup unfold for the past 3 years.

seeing as Ridnour/Barea get torched by good PG's, this probably won't be much of a contest, so the Love/Blake battle will be of no consequence. Your guards will put this game out of reach no matter what Love does.

ChiSox219
11-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Who else is he gonna guard?

PS I got tix again, been watching this matchup unfold for the past 3 years.

That's awesome, I'm envious.

I seen Darko and Pek guarding Blake most of the time, with Love on DJ at least to start the game. Love does guard Blake but sparingly. Now that Deandre is a threat offensively I wonder if Minny just matches up.

Lakers4life08
11-28-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't know,maybe today he is active,next days maybe Passive

Gram
11-28-2012, 03:12 PM
No reason to hate love he is just a over rated stat stuffer if u are winning 30 games whats the point of ur numbers. His team is 30 win team without him 35 win team with him. Fantasy basketball ruined reality.

:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
11-28-2012, 03:27 PM
That's awesome, I'm envious.

I seen Darko and Pek guarding Blake most of the time, with Love on DJ at least to start the game. Love does guard Blake but sparingly. Now that Deandre is a threat offensively I wonder if Minny just matches up.

they probably will. If the Wolves run Love at center, they bring Cunningham off the bench at PF, and he will match up with Blake anytime he is on the floor, being the superior defender with hops to try and match Blake. But, unless Pekovic gets into foul trouble, I would expect 35 minutes out of him tonight, unless the game gets out of hand.

Love is a foul drawing machine. Not sure he won't see other defenders outside Blake because of it.

PurpleJesus
11-28-2012, 03:45 PM
I would rather have brian scalabrine than Kevin Love. At least he can make the playoffs..

For sure man.

He only averaged 3 points and 2 rebounds per game in his career, but at least those points actually lead to victories.

topdog
11-28-2012, 04:30 PM
No reason to hate love he is just a over rated stat stuffer if u are winning 30 games whats the point of ur numbers. His team is 30 win team without him 35 win team with him. Fantasy basketball ruined reality.

According to...? If we're talking about the limited sample size of 8 weak games to start this year expanded into a whole season, it's 51.25 games won without him. Or, are we going back to last year's dismal cast and the 1-14 record to end the season without Love which equates to a 6 win season without him?

Now, with Love, the Wolves were something like 25-26 before he went down or a simply projected 40+ win team. This year (with an injured hand) the Love-led version of the team is 1-3 or projected simply to win 20.5 games. Which number is the right one?

BklynKnicks3
11-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Love air ball in the clutch looked liek jermey lin vs heat this year. David lee loses again smh. I think ill say i like Shved i actually wanted knicks to draft him 2 years ago when they used to call him the russian penny hardaway.

bucketss
11-29-2012, 11:37 AM
are you trying to convince us or yourself?

topdog
11-29-2012, 11:42 PM
Love air ball in the clutch looked liek jermey lin vs heat this year. David lee loses again smh. I think ill say i like Shved i actually wanted knicks to draft him 2 years ago when they used to call him the russian penny hardaway.

Love's hand is still sore. He missed free throws too. What was he doing between free throws? Flexing his recently broken shooting hand.

The hate needs to chill for a little while. Love supporters didn't go crazy after 1 win with a 20-20. A handful of games is a feeling not an argument.

Also, I would love for you to dig up a post on Alexey Shved and wanting him for the Knicks. I just think that would be awesome if someone actually saw this guy coming.

bucketss
11-29-2012, 11:50 PM
According to...? If we're talking about the limited sample size of 8 weak games to start this year expanded into a whole season, it's 51.25 games won without him. Or, are we going back to last year's dismal cast and the 1-14 record to end the season without Love which equates to a 6 win season without him?

Now, with Love, the Wolves were something like 25-26 before he went down or a simply projected 40+ win team. This year (with an injured hand) the Love-led version of the team is 1-3 or projected simply to win 20.5 games. Which number is the right one?

not to mention minny is in the west not the weak east melo struggled to get his team in.

Bluntz
11-30-2012, 03:46 AM
are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Pretty much this lmao. The guy is just talking for the sake of reading his own garbage posts.

Not to mention he's a Knicks fan and probably a Melo supporter which makes his whole argument even that much more amusing.

I would go back and tell you who Love has had on his team throughout his short career but its not even worth it anymore. Apparently a rotten liver supporting cast has nothing to do with it. Love hasn't been blessed with a filet mignon supporting cast. I **** better players than Love has had to work with.

jam
11-30-2012, 05:32 AM
The Wolves have never won more than 28 games with Love on the team. That's pathetic. I don't believe Love is a stat padder; he's simply not an impact player: 25/15 means nothing if you can only lead your team to 27 wins.

Yes, he has a mediocre cast, but LeBron as a 2nd year pro took a d league team to the finals.

Sactown
11-30-2012, 06:20 AM
The Wolves have never won more than 28 games with Love on the team. That's pathetic. I don't believe Love is a stat padder; he's simply not an impact player: 25/15 means nothing if you can only lead your team to 27 wins.

Yes, he has a mediocre cast, but LeBron as a 2nd year pro took a d league team to the finals.

Lebron also plays in the east, It's also unfair to compare Lebron to KLove unless someone said Kevin Love is as good as Lebron.. because clearly he is not. But Kevin Love is a very good player, he plays in a tough division with a team that hasn't gotten it together yet, doesn't mean he isn't a top 5 PF..

jam
11-30-2012, 06:33 AM
Lebron also plays in the east, It's also unfair to compare Lebron to KLove unless someone said Kevin Love is as good as Lebron.. because clearly he is not. But Kevin Love is a very good player, he plays in a tough division with a team that hasn't gotten it together yet, doesn't mean he isn't a top 5 PF..

Your comments are completely fair. Having said that, Love was rated as a top 10 player by espn.

When you take into account how little success the twolves have had, even with both rubio and love in the lineup, it's difficult to rate him among players such as

DRose,5
Kobe, 6
DWade, 8
Dumbbrook, 9.

It's just laughable, really. I'd even take Blake Griffin ahead of Love, easily. Blake is actually a low post scoring threat. That's what you want a 4 to do; score down low, not chuck up 3's like kobe.

Love will be a great addition as a second option on a contending team. He is not a #1 on a contender.

In his 5th season, he'll be lucky to get to .500. He's not a top 10 player, period.

Sactown
11-30-2012, 06:48 AM
Lebron also plays in the east, It's also unfair to compare Lebron to KLove unless someone said Kevin Love is as good as Lebron.. because clearly he is not. But Kevin Love is a very good player, he plays in a tough division with a team that hasn't gotten it together yet, doesn't mean he isn't a top 5 PF..

Your comments are completely fair. Having said that, Love was rated as a top 10 player by espn.

When you take into account how little success the twolves have had, even with both rubio and love in the lineup, it's difficult to rate him among players such as

DRose,5
Kobe, 6
DWade, 8
Dumbbrook, 9.

It's just laughable, really. I'd even take Blake Griffin ahead of Love, easily. Blake is actually a low post scoring threat. That's what you want a 4 to do; score down low, not chuck up 3's like kobe.

Love will be a great addition as a second option on a contending team. He is not a #1 on a contender.

In his 5th season, he'll be lucky to get to .500. He's not a top 10 player, period. although Blake got no where before Cp3 so I don't know if I would rank him top 10 either considering he's a 2nd option and playing not so well at the moment. I do think the wolves will be much better with rubio back. But there really isn't a PF out there that I would take over Love. Bosh got the raptors to the playoffs once in the east. Dirk is aging, blake hasnt gotten any father as a #1 amare is broken and pau is in his twilight years..

jam
11-30-2012, 06:57 AM
although Blake got no where before Cp3 so I don't know if I would rank him top 10 either considering he's a 2nd option and playing not so well at the moment. I do think the wolves will be much better with rubio back. But there really isn't a PF out there that I would take over Love. Bosh got the raptors to the playoffs once in the east. Dirk is aging, blake hasnt gotten any father as a #1 amare is broken and pau is in his twilight years..

Well that's my point really. Blake is ranked outside of the top 10 and he's much more of an impact player than Love is, or perhaps ever will be.

You have to keep in mind that the clips are rated as one of the deepest teams in the league, and minutes are being spread thin over the entire team.

Blake's not going to average huge numbers playing 32 minutes a game. No one playing on a team with a 12 man rotation is going to put up incredible stats.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 09:40 AM
Well that's my point really. Blake is ranked outside of the top 10 and he's much more of an impact player than Love is, or perhaps ever will be.

You have to keep in mind that the clips are rated as one of the deepest teams in the league, and minutes are being spread thin over the entire team.

Blake's not going to average huge numbers playing 32 minutes a game. No one playing on a team with a 12 man rotation is going to put up incredible stats.

32 mins and 12 man rotation or not Blake still isn't playing at a high level (by his standards) he's been nursing injuries to start the season, isn't crashing the glass the way we are accustomed to seeing him and really hasn't shown the ability this season that he can take over a game for you offensively at any time. Sure he's been solid but Blake can play much better than he has this season.

As for impact its interesting to see how you rate that. He's been much improved defensively yes. That's just to start this season however, he's a better passer than Love and really that's about it. He's not a better scorer, nor rebounder and in terms of outlet passing isn't better in that regard either. I'd like to hear your impact argument. I mean if he was Dwight Howard defensively I'd see your reasoning but he is still growing on that end of the floor.

The Clippers are 10 points better defensively (http://www.82games.com/1213/12LAC11.HTM#onoff) per 100 possessions when Blake is off the floor. If by impact you're talking about D (basically the only tangible reasoning one can have) I see no logical reasoning behind that. I'd buy that Blake has improved defensively but more so that anything that's his man D which is also the strongest part of Kevin Love's D where he's actually quite stellar.

Even the biggest Blake homers have basically agreed that Love is better than he is (though Blake does have a higher upside in my opinion and theirs) so I'd really like to understand your argument of impact. The only thing I can think about is that Blake's team has won more than Love's and really when you take support into consideration that's a none argument.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 09:45 AM
The Wolves have never won more than 28 games with Love on the team. That's pathetic. I don't believe Love is a stat padder; he's simply not an impact player: 25/15 means nothing if you can only lead your team to 27 wins.

Yes, he has a mediocre cast, but LeBron as a 2nd year pro took a d league team to the finals.

1. LeBron is one of if not the greatest player of his generation and will retire a top 10 possibly top 5 player of all time Love would be lucky to be a top 10 player of his generation and top 60 all time. NO comparison.
2. LeBron played in the Eastern Conference had a better supporting cast with better coaching than Love
3. Only someone who doesn't understand the value of an individual in a team sport would say an efficient 25/15 means nothing if your team isn't winning. Think of where Kevin Love's teams would have been if he wasn't that calibre player. They'd be just as bad as last season's Bobcats

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 09:52 AM
Your comments are completely fair. Having said that, Love was rated as a top 10 player by espn.

When you take into account how little success the twolves have had, even with both rubio and love in the lineup, it's difficult to rate him among players such as

DRose,5
Kobe, 6
DWade, 8
Dumbbrook, 9.

It's just laughable, really. I'd even take Blake Griffin ahead of Love, easily. Blake is actually a low post scoring threat. That's what you want a 4 to do; score down low, not chuck up 3's like kobe.

Love will be a great addition as a second option on a contending team. He is not a #1 on a contender.

In his 5th season, he'll be lucky to get to .500. He's not a top 10 player, period.

Actually that's wrong. You don't want your 4 living in the low post you want him to be able to offer you some spacing and be effective on the pnr or pap. There is a reason why Blake is working so hard on his mid range game, he knows that in order to reach the level offensively of peak Amar'e, Dirk, TD, KG, Chuck, Malone, etc he has to develop that aspect of his game. Love being able to shoot threes the way he does is a major + since he's also an effective finisher inside and late in games.

ChiSox219
11-30-2012, 10:03 AM
One of the main reasons Griffin's stats are down is because he's taking the mid range jumper so much. He makes at a good rate relative to the rest of the league but no where near the rate at which he can score inside.

Also just subjectively speaking, it seems like Blake creates more floor spacing than love even without a three ball because Griffin demands so much defensive attention.


I agree with the guy who said Blake has more impact.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 10:10 AM
One of the main reasons Griffin's stats are down is because he's taking the mid range jumper so much. He makes at a good rate relative to the rest of the league but no where near the rate at which he can score inside.

Also just subjectively speaking, it seems like Blake creates more floor spacing than love even without a three ball because Griffin demands so much defensive attention.


I agree with the guy who said Blake has more impact.

Of course you would.

SLY WILLIAMS
11-30-2012, 10:52 AM
There are very few Lebron James, Larry Bird's or David Robinsons that could just carry a team on their back to good records. Jordan didnt. Patrick Ewing didnt. Bernard King didnt. They were top 50 players of all time. This is a team game and Loves supporting casts have been horrible. Put Love on the Clippers and he will be a very good player on a winning team. Put him on the Lakers and they might be a champion. He would be an incredible player on the Spurs. The bottom line is while he is a very good player he is not a 1 man team. Very few players in the NBA are 1 man teams. Very few players could carry the Twolves to a good record never mind do it when they were in their first few years in this league. Kevin Love is not the best player in the NBA but he is a very legit all star player. Rick Adelman must agree. He barely lets Love step off the court despite being injured and not 100%.

BklynKnicks3
11-30-2012, 11:43 AM
Davd lee aka kevin love finally wins and has 31/9/6

bucketss
11-30-2012, 11:44 AM
hopefully melo aka taller monta ellis can get a win tonight

BklynKnicks3
11-30-2012, 11:46 AM
[QUOTE=bucketss;24518458]hopefully melo aka taller monta ellis can get a win tonighis that a joke knicks will have more wins by all star break then wolves will have all year #3tothehead

BklynKnicks3
11-30-2012, 11:47 AM
K love air ball with game on the line lmao scared to death

Gram
11-30-2012, 11:48 AM
K love air ball with game on the line lmao scared to death

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showpost.php?p=24518478&postcount=32

jam
11-30-2012, 04:21 PM
Actually that's wrong. You don't want your 4 living in the low post you want him to be able to offer you some spacing and be effective on the pnr or pap. There is a reason why Blake is working so hard on his mid range game, he knows that in order to reach the level offensively of peak Amar'e, Dirk, TD, KG, Chuck, Malone, etc he has to develop that aspect of his game. Love being able to shoot threes the way he does is a major + since he's also an effective finisher inside and late in games.

PF's help their team with a midrange game as you mention, but very few teams need their 4's shooting 3's in volume.

K Malone's bread and butter was the pnr with stockton, either cutting to the basket, or popping out for an 18 footer. Malone was also a very effective passer as well, as was Barkley.

Love on the other hand, is an iso scorer, relying very heavily on 3's. He's taking 6 a game! He's not a passer, either, rarely involving his teammates.

KMalone and Dirk force doubles with their post scoring, and switches with the pnr. Their games force defenses to work much harder, and force teams to foul at a higher rate than a big who favors stepping out for the 3 (Love).

If you've played basketball, you know it's much more physically demanding guarding a post scorer than someone who relies on 25 footers. You get banged up, tired, elbowed, and are often forced to foul.

Blake grinds you down on the post. He forces you into foul trouble. This is why the Griz are so effective.

jam
11-30-2012, 04:27 PM
32 mins and 12 man rotation or not Blake still isn't playing at a high level (by his standards) he's been nursing injuries to start the season, isn't crashing the glass the way we are accustomed to seeing him and really hasn't shown the ability this season that he can take over a game for you offensively at any time. Sure he's been solid but Blake can play much better than he has this season.

As for impact its interesting to see how you rate that. He's been much improved defensively yes. That's just to start this season however, he's a better passer than Love and really that's about it. He's not a better scorer, nor rebounder and in terms of outlet passing isn't better in that regard either. I'd like to hear your impact argument. I mean if he was Dwight Howard defensively I'd see your reasoning but he is still growing on that end of the floor.

The Clippers are 10 points better defensively (http://www.82games.com/1213/12LAC11.HTM#onoff) per 100 possessions when Blake is off the floor. If by impact you're talking about D (basically the only tangible reasoning one can have) I see no logical reasoning behind that. I'd buy that Blake has improved defensively but more so that anything that's his man D which is also the strongest part of Kevin Love's D where he's actually quite stellar.

Even the biggest Blake homers have basically agreed that Love is better than he is (though Blake does have a higher upside in my opinion and theirs) so I'd really like to understand your argument of impact. The only thing I can think about is that Blake's team has won more than Love's and really when you take support into consideration that's a none argument.

Blake has the athleticism to be a great defender, but not the desire. Not yet.

Blake's impact is as a low post scorer. I believe his FG percentage was nearly 70% according to one of the clips broadcasters last season on the low block. He forces doubles and gets teams into foul trouble.

As I stated in another post, it is much more physically demanding guarding a post scorer than a 3 pt shooter. Opposing bigs get worn down over the course of a game. They accumulate fouls. They are either reluctant to help for fear of fouls, or are too tired to help.

That's what bigs do in warfare. They pound the gates and wear the opposition down with sheer strength. Love did that in college. But now he wants to be a finesse player. So be it.

Sota4Ever
11-30-2012, 04:39 PM
PF's help their team with a midrange game as you mention, but very few teams need their 4's shooting 3's in volume.

K Malone's bread and butter was the pnr with stockton, either cutting to the basket, or popping out for an 18 footer. Malone was also a very effective passer as well, as was Barkley.

Love on the other hand, is an iso scorer, relying very heavily on 3's. He's taking 6 a game! He's not a passer, either, rarely involving his teammates.

KMalone and Dirk force doubles with their post scoring, and switches with the pnr. Their games force defenses to work much harder, and force teams to foul at a higher rate than a big who favors stepping out for the 3 (Love).

If you've played basketball, you know it's much more physically demanding guarding a post scorer than someone who relies on 25 footers. You get banged up, tired, elbowed, and are often forced to foul.

Blake grinds you down on the post. He forces you into foul trouble. This is why the Griz are so effective.

You a big fan of watching timberwolves games??

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 04:40 PM
PF's help their team with a midrange game as you mention, but very few teams need their 4's shooting 3's in volume.

And in an offense such as the one ran in Minny it's an absolute gold mind if you can have your starting PF offering you that much spacing and killing it from the arc.


K Malone's bread and butter was the pnr with stockton, either cutting to the basket, or popping out for an 18 footer. Malone was also a very effective passer as well, as was Barkley.

Thanks for proving my point of those players having the ability to score from the mid range and the high post.


Love on the other hand, is an iso scorer, relying very heavily on 3's. He's taking 6 a game!

And he's converting at a high rate for his career. The man won the 3 point shooting became the only player in league history to put up those types of scoring, rebounding and shooting #s and him being an iso player as you say bodes well for his team as it stands. I really don't see him as much of an iso player though since he's so extremely versatile on offense. Arguably the most versatile offensive big in the game after Dirk who can more or less fit into any offense with any type of support around him and he'd thrive.


He's not a passer, either, rarely involving his teammates.

Shows how much you watch him play. He's without question the best outlet passer in the game and every season he's been in the league he's improved in that aspect of his game. Still not Blake but surely above average as far as passing goes.


KMalone and Dirk force doubles with their post scoring, and switches with the pnr. Their games force defenses to work much harder, and force teams to foul at a higher rate than a big who favors stepping out for the 3 (Love).

Its funny that you'd mention that since Love gets to the line at a higher clip than Dirk ever has. Even when Dirk was more focused on perimeter scoring or even as he developed into more of a high post scorer he never got to the line with the frequency of Love. Also its much easier to have an effective PnR when you have players such as Jason Kidd, Steve Nash and John Stockton running the point. Love had Rubio for basically half a season. Let's see the type of impact a legitimate passing PG can have on Love's game.


If you've played basketball, you know it's much more physically demanding guarding a post scorer than someone who relies on 25 footers. You get banged up, tired, elbowed, and are often forced to foul.

You can watch basketball for 5 seconds and tell that you don't need to even step foot on the floor. That however does not make Love inferior. Love crashes the offensive glass better than Dirk and Malone ever did. There's great physicality in that and its a reason why he gets to the line as much as he does. Now remember he crashes the glass better than they do despite spending more time on the perimeter than they did as well.


Blake grinds you down on the post. He forces you into foul trouble. This is why the Griz are so effective.

Blake doesn't play for the Grizz. Because of Blakes underpolished post game defending him really isn't much of a grinder as it is an IQ. Love also gets to the line at a higher rate than Blake and more importantly is also able to convert. Don't get the point there.

If you think the reason why the Clips are so effective is because Blake grinds his opposing defenders in the paint and gets them into foul trouble you need to get your glasses checked.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 04:48 PM
Blake has the athleticism to be a great defender, but not the desire. Not yet.

Actually I think he does. He just needs to continue learning on that end of the floor. He's one of the hardest workers in the league he surely has the desire IMO.


Blake's impact is as a low post scorer. I believe his FG percentage was nearly 70% according to one of the clips broadcasters last season on the low block. He forces doubles and gets teams into foul trouble.

So does Kevin Love. I can say his impact is in the clutch by being able to kill you in a multitude of ways while Blake really isn't known for his clutch play and can be a liability from the line if he's on the floor.


As I stated in another post, it is much more physically demanding guarding a post scorer than a 3 pt shooter. Opposing bigs get worn down over the course of a game. They accumulate fouls. They are either reluctant to help for fear of fouls, or are too tired to help.

How do you think opposing bigs feel when they have to chase Kevin Love? Or fight against him for a rebound (he's literally unmoveable), or try to even contest a smooth as silk step back jumper from the perimeter. Hell Love gets them in foul trouble just as quickly as Blake does. There is a reason why he tends to find himself as wide open as he is so many times in a game from the perimeter despite being the most deadly marksman at his size from distance.


That's what bigs do in warfare. They pound the gates and wear the opposition down with sheer strength. Love did that in college. But now he wants to be a finesse player. So be it.

I don't see the finesse player. He's every bit the banger he was in college. He realizes however that the spacing he offers his team in invaluable (Pekovic playing some of his best ball offensively since Love has returned just one example of his value).

You must really undervalue the importance of spacing. You know what would give me the nod for Blake over Love? If he was a reliable back to the basket scorer down the stretch. If he was a player who you can throw the ball into possession after possession in the mid the high and the low post and he'd be able to get you consistent buckets or at least to the line and convert. Dirk and Chuck did/does that better than most. Blake despite his semi dominant low post effectiveness still isn't a go to player when you need a bucket in a crucial position. I'd honestly take the "finesse" of Love over the grit of Blake down the stretch.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-30-2012, 04:49 PM
He's been active for like 2 weeks now.

jam
11-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Love is a remarkable player. Heck, I even like his name. :) And these are great arguments, theoretically speaking.

But the fact of the matter is, Minn.'s topped out at 28 wins with Love posting remarkable numbers. Not 38 wins, not 41, not 45, but 28. That is abysmal by any standard.

I have nothing against kevin love (why would I?). But when the team rises to .500 with rubio, then takes a nosedive again with rubio out and love in, there is a serious problem.

I don't question the fact that love can play, I question whether he should be ranked among a handful or two of the true game changers in the nba, right now.

Perhaps that will change in 4-5 years when love is in his prime, but it's not the case now.

Can you imagine DRose leading his team to 28 wins playing full time?!? The Bulls are a 60 win team with a healthy Rose. Subtract 10 wins controlling for the conference and for stronger teammates. I would still take Rose over Love by a very wide margin. They are just not in the same category.

Also, when I speak of Love's passing, I am talking about his passing in a half court set, not his outlet passing.

BklynKnicks3
11-30-2012, 07:15 PM
Love is a remarkable player. Heck, I even like his name. :) And these are great arguments, theoretically speaking.

But the fact of the matter is, Minn.'s topped out at 28 wins with Love posting remarkable numbers. Not 38 wins, not 41, not 45, but 28. That is abysmal by any standard.

I have nothing against kevin love (why would I?). But when the team rises to .500 with rubio, then takes a nosedive again with rubio out and love in, there is a serious problem.

I don't question the fact that love can play, I question whether he should be ranked among a handful or two of the true game changers in the nba, right now.

Perhaps that will change in 4-5 years when love is in his prime, but it's not the case now.

Can you imagine DRose leading his team to 28 wins playing full time?!? The Bulls are a 60 win team with a healthy Rose. Subtract 10 wins controlling for the conference and for stronger teammates. I would still take Rose over Love by a very wide margin. They are just not in the same category.

Also, when I speak of Love's passing, I am talking about his passing in a half court set, not his outlet passing.

exactly my take

BklynKnicks3
11-30-2012, 07:16 PM
He's been active for like 2 weeks now.

and produced 1 win and fantasy stats yup k love is back

ChiSox219
11-30-2012, 07:17 PM
Love is a remarkable player. Heck, I even like his name. :) And these are great arguments, theoretically speaking.

But the fact of the matter is, Minn.'s topped out at 28 wins with Love posting remarkable numbers. Not 38 wins, not 41, not 45, but 28. That is abysmal by any standard.

I have nothing against kevin love (why would I?). But when the team rises to .500 with rubio, then takes a nosedive again with rubio out and love in, there is a serious problem.

I don't question the fact that love can play, I question whether he should be ranked among a handful or two of the true game changers in the nba, right now.

Perhaps that will change in 4-5 years when love is in his prime, but it's not the case now.

Can you imagine DRose leading his team to 28 wins playing full time?!? The Bulls are a 60 win team with a healthy Rose. Subtract 10 wins controlling for the conference and for stronger teammates. I would still take Rose over Love by a very wide margin. They are just not in the same category.

Also, when I speak of Love's passing, I am talking about his passing in a half court set, not his outlet passing.

Do you think Ricky Rubio has more impact than Love?

AddiX
11-30-2012, 07:17 PM
His own team doesn't even run plays for him. What else needs to be said?

jam
11-30-2012, 07:39 PM
Do you think Ricky Rubio has more impact than Love?

The facts are:


1. the Wolves rose to a .500 ballclub almost immediately with Rubio inserted into the lineup.

2. the Wolves remained at .500 as long as Rubio remained in the lineup.

3. the Wolves tanked almost immediately when Rubio was out with an injury, but with Love still scoring and rebounding at a prolific rate.


Whether you are a huge fan of Rubio's playing style or not (personally I am not; he's not a very good shooter and he seems very cautious about driving to the basket; classic eurostyle finesse ball), the fact of the matter is, the PG is entrusted with the ball on every possession and determines who gets the ball and where.

And Rubio has done a very good job in that regard.

How would the Wolves fare with Love out and Rubio in? We don't have an answer to that question yet.

We only know how well the wolves play with love in and rubio out. And that is very poorly.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 07:50 PM
Whether you are a huge fan of Rubio's playing style or not (personally I am not; he's not a very good shooter and he seems very cautious about driving to the basket; classic eurostyle finesse ball), the fact of the matter is, the PG is entrusted with the ball on every possession and determines who gets the ball and where.

And Rubio has done a very good job in that regard.
Facts are they didn't miss his offense, it was often subpar and teams were beginning to figure him out, they missed him more for his defense than anything else. Which you neglect to mention.



How would the Wolves fare with Love out and Rubio in? We don't have an answer to that question yet.

We only know how well the wolves play with love in and rubio out. And that is very poorly.
Well to be fair to Love, Rubio would have to play without Love AND with a hurt Pek.

What we do know is that the T'Wolves faltered without both players. You have the sample of games with Rubio out (+Pek injured) but I think its telling that even though the Twolves were faltering during that span, he still wound up having a higher Net influence according to +/-.

Its not much of a difference but I would have guessed Rubio benefits from the nosedive without him. Turns out that when you remove Love the team collapses to a slightly greater degree.

We dont have many minutes of Rubio without Love, but from the look at his individual stats, he seems to benefit more from Love's presence than vice versa.

Sota4Ever
11-30-2012, 07:52 PM
The thing with Rubio out and Love in is that Ridnour starts. Ridnour plays d like someone in high school. He has some of the worst d i have ever seen. Rubio is a top defensive pg. With his length and ability to stay with the defender you will see us win games when he comes back.

AddiX
11-30-2012, 07:58 PM
The thing with Rubio out and Love in is that Ridnour starts. Ridnour plays d like someone in high school. He has some of the worst d i have ever seen. Rubio is a top defensive pg. With his length and ability to stay with the defender you will see us win games when he comes back.

Defending love..

Complaining about ridnours D?

:facepalm:

Sota4Ever
11-30-2012, 08:13 PM
If you want to see stats and others opinions about Love then read through the thread. If you think that us losing games has to do with Love then you are blinded by some heavy hate. Our pg and sg play has been atrocious since Love has been on our team. Once Rubio came to our team we finally had someone that could defend pg's which helped our D out immensely.

jam
11-30-2012, 08:25 PM
If you want to see stats and others opinions about Love then read through the thread. If you think that us losing games has to do with Love then you are blinded by some heavy hate. Our pg and sg play has been atrocious since Love has been on our team. Once Rubio came to our team we finally had someone that could defend pg's which helped our D out immensely.

Sigh. Take off your homer goggles and try to comprehend what people are actually saying rather than projecting your own insecurities and fears onto others.

No one is saying that Love causes the Wolves to lose. This is a ridiculous claim. I am simply saying Love doesn't help his team to win to the same degree that other players he is supposedly in the same category as, help their teams win. Case in point: DRose. Kobe. DWade.

I have stated repeatedly that I don't "hate" Love. Why would I "hate" Love? Because he's white? Because he is partially of african american ancestry? Because I hate beards? Stop being a f-----g idiot. :)

I thought he was a great player in college and I would "love" to see the wolves become a winning team. Your extraordinary stupidity obviously prevents you from seeing that, so I won't repeat it.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2012, 08:40 PM
stat stuffer

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 08:50 PM
Sigh. Take off your homer goggles and try to comprehend what people are actually saying rather than projecting your own insecurities and fears onto others.

No one is saying that Love causes the Wolves to lose. This is a ridiculous claim. I am simply saying Love doesn't help his team to win to the same degree that other players he is supposedly in the same category as, help their teams win. Case in point: DRose. Kobe. DWade.

I have stated repeatedly that I don't "hate" Love. Why would I "hate" Love? Because he's white? Because he is partially of african american ancestry? Because I hate beards? Stop being a f-----g idiot. :)

I thought he was a great player in college and I would "love" to see the wolves become a winning team. Your extraordinary stupidity obviously prevents you from seeing that, so I won't repeat it.

You clearly did not read through this thread.

Also what happened to Wade's Heat in 08 when he was healthy? They boasted an inferior W% to any one of KLove's teams. Kobe wasn't less of a player hell he was two years removed from a title run why was his team still so poor even when he was healthy and playing basketball?

This is a team sport and without the support of a solid cast around you unless you're a top tier all time great (which Kevin Love is not), your team isn't going to be successful.

Ask yourself given the circumstances that Love has how many other players in the league can really take those Wolves teams (remember Love came into a system who already had a losing culture with no identity) to higher heights than Love. Now also ask yourself how would those teams fair without Kevin Love leading them.

Sota4Ever
11-30-2012, 08:53 PM
Sigh. Take off your homer goggles and try to comprehend what people are actually saying rather than projecting your own insecurities and fears onto others.

No one is saying that Love causes the Wolves to lose. This is a ridiculous claim. I am simply saying Love doesn't help his team to win to the same degree that other players he is supposedly in the same category as, help their teams win. Case in point: DRose. Kobe. DWade.

I have stated repeatedly that I don't "hate" Love. Why would I "hate" Love? Because he's white? Because he is partially of african american ancestry? Because I hate beards? Stop being a f-----g idiot. :)

I thought he was a great player in college and I would "love" to see the wolves become a winning team. Your extraordinary stupidity obviously prevents you from seeing that, so I won't repeat it.

Hahaha. So full of ****. It is unbelievable... The arguments against Love are just laughable at this point, and over 85% of the people on this forum support love and agree he is a top player in the league. It's the people like you that have the glasses on that are trying to spew ******** all over this thread.

Love can't help his team win because he can't guard pg and sg's. I will admit that is one of Love's big weakness. He just can't stay with those fast pg and sg's. Once Love can figure out how to shut down those two positions than we will be golden.

If you honestly think that the timberwolves team without Love wins the same amount with him then buddy I will say you are the idiot and should probably learn basketball.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 08:58 PM
Love is a remarkable player. Heck, I even like his name. :) And these are great arguments, theoretically speaking.

But the fact of the matter is, Minn.'s topped out at 28 wins with Love posting remarkable numbers. Not 38 wins, not 41, not 45, but 28. That is abysmal by any standard.

I have nothing against kevin love (why would I?). But when the team rises to .500 with rubio, then takes a nosedive again with rubio out and love in, there is a serious problem.

I wonder if Kevin Love was to unfortunatley miss an entire season how the facts would have reflected. I can assure you they'd be challenging the Cats and 76ers for worst records in a single season. It wasn't just Rubio who was injured it was also Pek, Love also was ailing during that stretch. Let's not act as if Rubio getting injured was the only thing that hampered the Wolves.


I don't question the fact that love can play, I question whether he should be ranked among a handful or two of the true game changers in the nba, right now.

Perhaps that will change in 4-5 years when love is in his prime, but it's not the case now.

Right now Love isn't ranked by most ahead of Rose, Wade and Kobe so I don't get your point.


Can you imagine DRose leading his team to 28 wins playing full time?!? The Bulls are a 60 win team with a healthy Rose. Subtract 10 wins controlling for the conference and for stronger teammates. I would still take Rose over Love by a very wide margin. They are just not in the same category.

How did the Bulls fair without Rose again? Now let's place Love on that team and replace Rose with say Ramon Sessions. How many wins do you think they'd have?


Also, when I speak of Love's passing, I am talking about his passing in a half court set, not his outlet passing.

Actually Love is also a quite capable passer in the half court, better than the average PF out there. Me personally when I talk about passing I look at every aspect of it as each player's passing worth can differ. Pau, Love and Josh Smith some of the best passers around at the PF in their respective areas of strength and guess what they all fit their team's style of play perfectly.

Sota4Ever
11-30-2012, 09:06 PM
stat stuffer

Your opinion is not needed. People are going to start thinking you are being serious.

Chronz
11-30-2012, 09:09 PM
You overrate Love's passing, Swash. Agreed on the overall theme of the post but I dont get some of your point on his passing acumen, he was talking about halfcourt passing (which your posts mentions nothing about) then in your rebuttal you tell him "actually" as if your correcting him when in reality he was clarifying that your post didn't mention anything about it.

I dont see an above average passer with him and I see and even worse playmaker.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2012, 09:10 PM
Your opinion is not needed. People are going to start thinking you are being serious.

I could honestly care less.

Swashcuff
11-30-2012, 09:17 PM
You overrate Love's passing, Swash. Agreed on the overall theme of the post but I dont get some of your point on his passing acumen, he was talking about halfcourt passing (which your posts mentions nothing about) then in your rebuttal you tell him "actually" as if your correcting him when in reality he was clarifying that your post didn't mention anything about it.

I dont see an above average passer with him and I see and even worse playmaker.

Since we're talking about PFs I'm not talking about play making since only a select few PFs can really be considered play makers even at their position. I'm talking clearly from a passing standpoint. I have watched enough of Love to consider him in my eyes a fairly decent passer in the half court set at his position.

Do you think Love is a good outlet passer?

Sactown
11-30-2012, 10:25 PM
stat stuffer I agree definitely a chucker too, I heard him telling Pek if he steals another rebound from him he's going to trade him to the worst team in the league!! The kings, he also told Rubio he was going to beat him up if he didn't get him the ball more.

mngopher35
11-30-2012, 10:51 PM
I agree definitely a chucker too, I heard him telling Pek if he steals another rebound from him he's going to trade him to the worst team in the league!! The kings, he also told Rubio he was going to beat him up if he didn't get him the ball more.

Yup this happened at the end of last year, I saw it too. Pek responded before the season by telling love he was going to rebound the ball when it came his way, even if love was near. Love without hesitation punched Pek in the stomach, leading to a 6-8 week injury (broken hand).

Sactown
12-01-2012, 12:41 AM
Yup this happened at the end of last year, I saw it too. Pek responded before the season by telling love he was going to rebound the ball when it came his way, even if love was near. Love without hesitation punched Pek in the stomach, leading to a 6-8 week injury (broken hand).

Pek also took a bite of his arm but it wasn't released to the media