PDA

View Full Version : Red Sox sign Jonny Gomes



Rakalaz
11-21-2012, 06:27 PM
2 year deal it looks like.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2012/11/21/source-red-sox-closing-in-on-two-year-deal-with-jonny-gomes/

MetsFanatic19
11-21-2012, 06:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8660831/jonny-gomes-boston-red-sox-close-deal-source-says


BOSTON -- The Boston Red Sox are close to finalizing a two-year contract with free-agent outfielder Jonny Gomes, pending a physical, according to an industry source.

Gomes, who turns 32 on Thursday, has eight-plus seasons of big league experience with the Tampa Bay Rays, Cincinnati Reds, Washington Nationals and Oakland Athletics. He spent the 2012 season with the A's and hit .262 with 18 homers and 47 RBIs.


The amount of the deal is not known, but Gomes likely will receive a raise from the $1 million he earned with Oakland.



CSN New England earlier had reported the sides were nearing an agreement.


Gomes' previous 25 home runs have been hit to either left or left-center field, according to ESPN Stats & Information, so his swing could give Boston an added advantage at Fenway Park. In 31 career games at Fenway, however, Gomes has a .262 average with three homers and seven RBIs.


Even with Gomes in the mix, Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington still would like to add another outfielder, and the team remains interested in re-signing Cody Ross. Gomes (.284/.382/.512) and Ross (.284/.353/.575) have similar career numbers versus left-handed pitching.


Gomes is known as a leader both on and off the field, and he'll likely serve in a platoon role for the Red Sox. He can play both corner positions.

You're welcome :D

TrueYankee
11-21-2012, 06:28 PM
Red Sox are dangerous next season...

Celtic AL
11-21-2012, 06:28 PM
@JimBowdenESPNxm
The Red Sox 2-year agreement with Jonny Gomes is pending a physical according to sources...the deal was first reported by @ScottLauber

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/271376397270937600

Celtic AL
11-21-2012, 06:29 PM
Red Sox are dangerous next season...

:sigh:

Celtic AL
11-21-2012, 06:30 PM
its a good signing but idk if this is thread worthy or it should be moved to the Minor signing/Trade thread

Conquest8089
11-21-2012, 06:41 PM
Red Sox will put Gomes in left field I'd gather, and I wonder how this acquisition negatively impacts Nick Swisher's market.

papipapsmanny
11-21-2012, 06:55 PM
just signing 2 year deals to wait for them youngins to start playing

SpecialFNK
11-21-2012, 07:12 PM
Gomes could put up the type of numbers they got last season from Ross.
he's probably going to come less than half of what Ross was asking.

t327
11-21-2012, 07:14 PM
Him and Ethier would have made a great platoon.

AI
11-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Gomes could put up the type of numbers they got last season from Ross.
he's probably going to come less than half of what Ross was asking.

This. Ross is looking for a 3 year deal at close to double the salary that Gomes wants, I like the signing.

aman_13
11-21-2012, 07:31 PM
Solid signing.

AI
11-21-2012, 09:28 PM
Susan Slusser
‏@susanslusser
I'm told it's two years, $10 million for Gomes, about twice what #Athletics offered in Sept.

TrueYankee
11-21-2012, 09:37 PM
Red Sox overpaid IMO.

Celtic AL
11-21-2012, 09:38 PM
Red Sox overpaid IMO.

no crap.

TrueYankee
11-21-2012, 09:40 PM
no crap.

Is he your permanent outfielder? DH? $10M he has to get his money worth somewhere.

Celtic AL
11-21-2012, 09:42 PM
Is he your permanent outfielder? DH? $10M he has to get his money worth somewhere.

we don't know but its better then paying ross 3 years & 27+ mill

SpecialFNK
11-21-2012, 09:43 PM
more than I was expecting him to sign for. I was thinking $3 maybe $4 per season. $5 isn't terrible, but still an overpay.
wont be too bad if he can produce similar to what he did in 2010 and 2012. 2011, not so much.

grandsalami
11-21-2012, 09:49 PM
Red Sox overpaid IMO.

you realize that if this is what Gomes is getting, what the rest of the FA's will be getting? Ross must be asking for a crap load (we already saw that with a few of the SP signees this month)

Vampirate
11-21-2012, 09:50 PM
Still the worst team in the AL East...

Even as a Jays fan who cares, the only thing that matters is contending. If you aren't contending that it doesn't matter where you finish.

The Red Sox for now are raising their young crop and biding their time.

bagwell368
11-21-2012, 10:04 PM
2 years for $5.5M would have been good. At that price he'll be more than a platoon guy.

Mitchell133
11-21-2012, 10:06 PM
This makes the Melky signing look fantastic, lol.

Jonny Gomes and a right handed hitter would be a pretty nice little LF platoon for the Bo Sox.. Although platooning is a concept Farrell has yet to understand.

Fly
11-21-2012, 10:12 PM
Wait.. is it $10 million per year? Or 2/$10 mil? If it's the latter, I love the signing, but the former is a big overpayment IMO.

Jibbler
11-21-2012, 10:19 PM
Still the worst team in the AL East...

I am a yankees fan and No do not agree at all. the Os are the worst team in the AL east their is no way the Os will have a year like they did this year next year, they had lots of lucky breaks with extra innings games players playing above themselves and they overachieved big time

LakersA's49ers
11-21-2012, 10:21 PM
Gonna miss Jonny. He was an outstanding contributer to the team

Mitchell133
11-21-2012, 10:23 PM
I am a yankees fan and No do not agree at all. the Os are the worst team in the AL east their is no way the Os will have a year like they did this year next year, they had lots of lucky breaks with extra innings games players playing above themselves and they overachieved big time

Agree 100%. If the BoSox hitters stay healthy, they'll put the O's to shame.. Remember the BoSox have a better rotation than the O's even in their current state.

TO Rapz
11-21-2012, 10:25 PM
Dammit, wanted Gomes to come platoon with Lind at DH for us.

Vampirate
11-21-2012, 10:29 PM
I am a yankees fan and No do not agree at all. the Os are the worst team in the AL east their is no way the Os will have a year like they did this year next year, they had lots of lucky breaks with extra innings games players playing above themselves and they overachieved big time

Don't forget BOTH the Red Sox and the Blue Jays massivly underachieved last year for various reasons.

Jibbler
11-21-2012, 10:34 PM
Don't forget BOTH the Red Sox and the Blue Jays massivly underachieved last year for various reasons.

Well the Jays were going ok they were over a 500 team until they got a load of injuries, red sox I don't think wwere never really in it I know they had injuries but they still had a really good offence even with Byrd!

a mix between Bobby V bad manangment and the pitching rotation were underperformaing, we can forget about what happened after the all star break it's N/A the red sox record they were tanking it.

AI
11-21-2012, 10:36 PM
2/$10M, about $2M more than I expected but we can afford to overpay on short-term contracts.

Vampirate
11-21-2012, 10:38 PM
Well the Jays were going ok they were over a 500 team until they got a load of injuries, red sox I don't think wwere never really in it I know they had injuries but they still had a really good offence even with Byrd!

a mix between Bobby V bad manangment and the pitching rotation were underperformaing, we can forget about what happened after the all star break it's N/A the red sox record they were tanking it.

Still for there reasons both teams were sinking last year, and the Orioles took advantage. The Orioles pretty much beat up on the Jays as well when the teams faced off against each other. Will the Orioles be able to beat up on the AL East this year like they did last year?

AI
11-21-2012, 10:40 PM
Well the Jays were going ok they were over a 500 team until they got a load of injuries, red sox I don't think wwere never really in it I know they had injuries but they still had a really good offence even with Byrd!

a mix between Bobby V bad manangment and the pitching rotation were underperformaing, we can forget about what happened after the all star break it's N/A the red sox record they were tanking it.

Jacoby Ellsbury missed 88 games
David Ortiz missed 72 games
Dustin Pedroia missed 21 games
Will Middlebrooks missed 63 games
Cody Ross missed 25 games
Carl Crawford only played 31 games

Starting LF/CF/DH/2B/3B/RF all out for extended periods of time.

John Lackey, Andrew Bailey both out for all/most of the season.

Vampirate
11-21-2012, 10:42 PM
Jacoby Ellsbury missed 88 games
David Ortiz missed 72 games
Dustin Pedroia missed 21 games
Will Middlebrooks missed 63 games
Cody Ross missed 25 games
Carl Crawford only played 31 games

Starting LF/CF/DH/2B/3B/RF all out for extended periods of time.

I'm not sure, but I think the Jays would rival that list last year.

SpecialFNK
11-21-2012, 10:48 PM
you realize that if this is what Gomes is getting, what the rest of the FA's will be getting? Ross must be asking for a crap load (we already saw that with a few of the SP signees this month)

this is the problem with free agents. when one free agent signs early and is overpaid, multiple other free agents who think they are better want to be paid accordingly based on how much better they are, even if that means they would be overpaid too.

AI
11-21-2012, 10:50 PM
I'm not sure, but I think the Jays would rival that list last year.

Wasn't making the list to compare it to the Jays, I'm just saying people saying we're really as bad as 2012 need to take just how much time our core missed, it's not a good recipe for success.

ATL#22
11-21-2012, 10:54 PM
tell us something we don't know troll

I **** blood

Vampirate
11-21-2012, 11:02 PM
Wasn't making the list to compare it to the Jays, I'm just saying people saying we're really as bad as 2012 need to take just how much time our core missed, it's not a good recipe for success.

Well it's pretty much the same reason why the Jays went down the tubes last year.

If what you are saying is true and of course the Blue Jay upgrades, I just don't see the Orioles repeating next year. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up in 5th place in the AL East honestly.

JobaRules26
11-21-2012, 11:11 PM
The AL East is wide open next year. The Jays will be better. If healthy, the Red Sox could win 90+ games. I expect the O's to take a slight step back but still contend. The Yankees could finish 1st just as easily as they could finish 3rd. Its a toss up on who the favorite is right now. Should be a fun, competitive division in 2013. Not 1 team in the division is done making moves either.

mark1125
11-21-2012, 11:41 PM
Gomes getting serious time in the field??!?! :speechless:

Stash
11-22-2012, 12:24 AM
He's had a bad reputation when it comes to fielding, so I was surprised when wasn't nearly that bad last season. He's more athletic than he looks and it got to the point when I wasn't really concerned when he took the field.

Probably a slight overpay, but with a contract this small on a team like Boston I don't really see it being an issue.

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 12:25 AM
Good for Gomes

Yankees90.
11-22-2012, 12:59 AM
He's got some good pop, could probably do some decent damage at Fenway

Yankees90.
11-22-2012, 01:00 AM
With the amount of money Boston dumped, they can afford a signing like this easy.

AI
11-22-2012, 02:09 AM
Gomes getting serious time in the field??!?! :speechless:

You do realize that you don't have to be a defensive stud to play LF at Fenway right?

Halladay
11-22-2012, 03:11 AM
I wanted him here to platoon with Lind but there's no way we would have offered that much. Given the contract, there's no question he won't be a platoon guy in Boston. I still don't think you can get away with having him hit vs RHP on a regular basis.

Halladay
11-22-2012, 03:12 AM
The AL East is wide open next year. The Jays will be better. If healthy, the Red Sox could win 90+ games. I expect the O's to take a slight step back but still contend. The Yankees could finish 1st just as easily as they could finish 3rd. Its a toss up on who the favorite is right now. Should be a fun, competitive division in 2013. Not 1 team in the division is done making moves either.

:eyebrow:

Kelly Gruber
11-22-2012, 11:03 AM
I love how the Jays sign Melky and there's 10 pages telling Jays fans its a poor deal. Then the Red Sox sign Gomes to this deal and it's no problem, good deal. They can afford to overpay. Lol hypocrisy baby.

AI
11-22-2012, 11:50 AM
I love how the Jays sign Melky and there's 10 pages telling Jays fans its a poor deal. Then the Red Sox sign Gomes to this deal and it's no problem, good deal. They can afford to overpay. Lol hypocrisy baby.

It's not Boston's fault people are skeptical of Melky because of the PED's so please cry about it somewhere else. If you have nothing productive to add to the topic simply don't post because nobody cares if you're butthurt.


Sixteen of Gomes's 18 homers with the Athletics last year were hit to left field, and the other two went to center field. In a division with CC Sabathia, Andy Pettitte, Mark Buehrle, Ricky Romero, Matt Moore, David Price, Joe Saunders (in all likelihood), etc., yes, it helps to get someone who can do damage against lefties.

The Red Sox locked up a good guy in Gomes, and the money turned out to be really good for him. And if you think that Boston overpaid on Gomes, at 2 times 5, well, just wait a few weeks; his salary is going to be a lot closer to major-league average than you realize, with the expected bump in salaries this winter.

via Buster Olney's insider blog.

TrueYankee
11-22-2012, 11:51 AM
Jays are already getting unnecessary hype. I think their pitching is atrocious.

Gormans Mic
11-22-2012, 12:06 PM
Red Sox are dangerous next season...

your life is exciting

Gormans Mic
11-22-2012, 12:08 PM
I love how the Jays sign Melky and there's 10 pages telling Jays fans its a poor deal. Then the Red Sox sign Gomes to this deal and it's no problem, good deal. They can afford to overpay. Lol hypocrisy baby.

I'm sorry was Johnny Gomes having an elite season that was ended due to it being fraudulently filled with PED's?

Nomar
11-22-2012, 12:09 PM
Jays are already getting unnecessary hype. I think their pitching is atrocious.

Romero could possibly come back to form, Johnson is a great talent, Morrow was great when healthy, Buehrle is likely going to be more of a workhorse innings eater than quality starter, and Drabek is hard to predict coming off surgery and never having lived up to his potential.

It's boom or bust with the staff, but if their lineup is good enough all they'll need is an average rotation. I like their team this year, but lots of risk there.

Gormans Mic
11-22-2012, 12:18 PM
If Johnson, Romero and Morrow all stay healthy and pitch at the level they are capable of pitching at this rotation can be legit, but those are all ifs. If watch Morrow, its clear he's figured it out. However, he needs to stay in the rotation to be legit. If Buehrle is the #4 thats not bad at all...but if they are depending on him as one of their top 2 arms due to the other guys having issues they'll be in trouble.

TrueYankee
11-22-2012, 12:27 PM
your life is exciting

You probably wish your life was exciting. No worries bro.


If Johnson, Romero and Morrow all stay healthy and pitch at the level they are capable of pitching at this rotation can be legit, but those are all ifs. If watch Morrow, its clear he's figured it out. However, he needs to stay in the rotation to be legit. If Buehrle is the #4 thats not bad at all...but if they are depending on him as one of their top 2 arms due to the other guys having issues they'll be in trouble.

Every team has if's. But Johnson was very inconsistent last year and he is still yet to prove he is the same pitcher from 3 years ago. Morrow is the only non-question mark in my opinion, besides health.

Kelly Gruber
11-22-2012, 12:29 PM
It's not Boston's fault people are skeptical of Melky because of the PED's so please cry about it somewhere else. If you have nothing productive to add to the topic simply don't post because nobody cares if you're butthurt.

I'll do what I want when I want, thanks champ! And I don't know what butt hurt means, but pretty sure it doesn't describe me. Just thought it was funny that's all. A lot of hypocrites here, which is normal among sports fans...

Twitchy
11-22-2012, 12:49 PM
Every team has if's. But Johnson was very inconsistent last year and he is still yet to prove he is the same pitcher from 3 years ago. Morrow is the only non-question mark in my opinion, besides health.

Johnson threw 190 innings with a 3.81 ERA and a 3.40 FIP. If that's inconsistent then I'd like for all of my starters to be "inconsistent".

Vampirate
11-22-2012, 12:57 PM
Johnson threw 190 innings with a 3.81 ERA and a 3.40 FIP. If that's inconsistent then I'd like for all of my starters to be "inconsistent".

Well Johnson is an injury concern and so is Morrow. There's a chance that Romero doesn't return to form as well.

But really, even with those questions there's no question that it is a very talented staff with loads of potential 1-4.

And with these questions also come the same questions with the Red Sox staff.

Will Clay and Lester perform to the way they can? They should, and so should Romero. Like those 2, i'm gonna bet more on Romero being the type of pitcher he was leading up to last year than just 1 year.

AI
11-22-2012, 12:57 PM
Johnson threw 190 innings with a 3.81 ERA and a 3.40 FIP. If that's inconsistent then I'd like for all of my starters to be "inconsistent".

Home: 2.96 ERA, 2.79 FIP, 3.45 xFIP
Away: 4.94 ERA, 4.22 FIP, 4.10 xFIP

I'm interested in seeing how Johnson performs in the smaller AL East ballparks.

Twitchy
11-22-2012, 01:07 PM
Home: 2.96 ERA, 2.79 FIP, 3.45 xFIP
Away: 4.94 ERA, 4.22 FIP, 4.10 xFIP

Home/Road splits are poorly used as statistical evidence and this is a good example of it. He's always been better at home then on the road. Most players are. I'm sure you can find examples of players who do better on the road, and that's fine. But generally speaking players will do better at home then on the road. Doesn't change the fact Johnson had a strong season.

As an example, it's like saying Pedroia is "inconsistent". Would anybody call Pedroia "inconsistent"? No, but his career OPS is 100 points higher at home vs on the road.

Bottom line is I don't care if Johnson does well at home and poorly on the road, as I'm quite happy with a pitcher who can put up a 3.40 FIP.

BoSox47
11-22-2012, 01:19 PM
You do realize that you don't have to be a defensive stud to play LF at Fenway right?

lol wait for it to hit the wall and pick it up.

Vampirate
11-22-2012, 01:36 PM
lol wait for it to hit the wall and pick it up.

Wait, Manny Ramirez was not a gold glove outfielder?:speechless::rolleyes:

Bo Sox Fan
11-22-2012, 02:31 PM
Johnson reminds me ALOT of Beckett. Used to have a blazing fast ball but it's kinda fell off the earth, and like Beckett, hasn't truly been himself in 2-3 years.

Josh Johnson 2013 prediction:

146 IP 4.68 ERA 10W 9L

Meh.

Farsight
11-22-2012, 04:04 PM
Johnson reminds me ALOT of Beckett. Used to have a blazing fast ball but it's kinda fell off the earth, and like Beckett, hasn't truly been himself in 2-3 years.

Josh Johnson 2013 prediction:

146 IP 4.68 ERA 10W 9L

Meh. How did you come up with these predictions...

Bill James predicts he will have 13 wins and 9 losses (Wins are a useless stat for a pitcher so), inning pitched - 190, k/9 -7.62, BB/9 -2.85, ERA -3.21, FIP -3.08. He bases his predictions of past performances, injuries, progression/regression, etc

Abedodgerfan1
11-22-2012, 04:18 PM
I've been following jonny since his days with the rays, and I feel like he finally got paid his dues, boy's been racking on a minor league contract for 10 years I'm happy he finally got paid.

Pinstripe pride
11-23-2012, 09:50 AM
good signing

Super.
11-23-2012, 12:59 PM
How did you come up with these predictions...

Bill James predicts he will have 13 wins and 9 losses (Wins are a useless stat for a pitcher so), inning pitched - 190, k/9 -7.62, BB/9 -2.85, ERA -3.21, FIP -3.08. He bases his predictions of past performances, injuries, progression/regression, etc

Bill James predictions came out before he was traded, they're completely useless right now.

Twitchy
11-23-2012, 01:10 PM
Bill James predictions came out before he was traded, they're completely useless right now.

Perhaps. But the earlier post was incorrect that he's not throwing as hard, as Keith Law said he was throwing 93-97 late in the season once he fixed his mechanics. So that needs to be taken into account as well.

StayOnBoard
11-23-2012, 01:26 PM
Johnson reminds me ALOT of Beckett. Used to have a blazing fast ball but it's kinda fell off the earth, and like Beckett, hasn't truly been himself in 2-3 years.

Josh Johnson 2013 prediction:

146 IP 4.68 ERA 10W 9L

Meh.

ROFLMAFO

If he went to Boston your prediction would be
210 innings pitched 220 k's with an ERA around 2 and 15+ wins :laugh2:

God I hate Boston homers more than anything else in baseball...

P.S Back on topic - I love this signing for the Sox - great deal

AI
11-23-2012, 01:58 PM
Yeah that guy is an idiot, he has no idea what he's talking about.

Super.
11-23-2012, 02:04 PM
Perhaps. But the earlier post was incorrect that he's not throwing as hard, as Keith Law said he was throwing 93-97 late in the season once he fixed his mechanics. So that needs to be taken into account as well.

Perhaps?

No, Bill James prediction for Josh Johnson for a different team, in the other league is completely useless for his projections on the Blue Jays, in the Al East, one of if not the top division in baseball.

Not to mention that 4/5 parks in his division, including his home park are hitters parks

Kelly Gruber
11-23-2012, 02:06 PM
Perhaps?

No, Bill James prediction for Josh Johnson for a different team, in the other league is completely useless for his projections on the Blue Jays, in the Al East, one of if not the top division in baseball.

Not to mention that 4/5 parks in his division, including his home park are hitters parks

Guess what, projections are completley useless anyway. Regardless of the division...

Twitchy
11-23-2012, 02:18 PM
Perhaps?

No, Bill James prediction for Josh Johnson for a different team, in the other league is completely useless for his projections on the Blue Jays, in the Al East, one of if not the top division in baseball.

Not to mention that 4/5 parks in his division, including his home park are hitters parks

I wouldn't use Bill James in the first place because the projections are always awful. That's why I don't care if they're in a different park/league.

It's a fair point about the park factors, but we should also acknowledge the lineups in the AL East aren't as intimidating as they were in past years. A-Rod/Jeter/Tex/Granderson have all taken steps back and there's no Swisher. Gonzalez and Youk are gone, and while they may not have played a significant role in 2012, they were some of the best hitters in the division only a few years ago. The Rays don't have a strong lineup. Baltimore should get Reimold back but they were never an offensive juggernaut. There's still a few months for them to improve though.

The elite Yankee and Sox lineups aren't as intimidating as they were a few years ago. I'm not saying this to cause fights, but gone are the 2007-2011 elite lineups fielded by both clubs. And that's something that needs to be accounted for. The Yanks were first in runs scored last year, but without Swisher and with Jeter coming off an injury they might have trouble maintaining that status. Edit: It sounds worse than I intended writing that. They'll still be an above average lineup and team. Just not elite offensively like they were in the past.

Like I said, I generally don't put much faith in projection systems. Johnson is moving to a tougher league with tougher parks, but I'm intrigued as I mentioned before of the return of his 93-97 MPH fastball towards the end of the year. That would make him far more intimidating.

But as I said, we'll have to wait and see. I'm excited. Should be a great race.

Celtic AL
11-23-2012, 04:14 PM
this is getting insane

TrueYankee
11-23-2012, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't use Bill James in the first place because the projections are always awful. That's why I don't care if they're in a different park/league.

It's a fair point about the park factors, but we should also acknowledge the lineups in the AL East aren't as intimidating as they were in past years. A-Rod/Jeter/Tex/Granderson have all taken steps back and there's no Swisher. Gonzalez and Youk are gone, and while they may not have played a significant role in 2012, they were some of the best hitters in the division only a few years ago. The Rays don't have a strong lineup. Baltimore should get Reimold back but they were never an offensive juggernaut. There's still a few months for them to improve though.

The elite Yankee and Sox lineups aren't as intimidating as they were a few years ago. I'm not saying this to cause fights, but gone are the 2007-2011 elite lineups fielded by both clubs. And that's something that needs to be accounted for. The Yanks were first in runs scored last year, but without Swisher and with Jeter coming off an injury they might have trouble maintaining that status. Edit: It sounds worse than I intended writing that. They'll still be an above average lineup and team. Just not elite offensively like they were in the past.

Like I said, I generally don't put much faith in projection systems. Johnson is moving to a tougher league with tougher parks, but I'm intrigued as I mentioned before of the return of his 93-97 MPH fastball towards the end of the year. That would make him far more intimidating.

But as I said, we'll have to wait and see. I'm excited. Should be a great race.

Jeter has taken a step back? Gee, must has missed his consistent .310+ BA season and 200 something hits.

A-rod, Tex, and Granderson all had down years. With the scrutiny A-rod has been under from Yankee fans, I'll think he would do something this off-season to adjust his batting mechanics and come in a different player. One can only hope...

Granderson needs to get back to hitting for average and not for power.

Tex needs to learn to beat the shift and hit the other way.

If they can adjust, it will still be a top 5 lineup in baseball.

We'll see what happens..the AL East race will come down to the wire again. Every year, it always does. I do not see Orioles getting lucky again. I think Yanks-Rays-Jays-Red Sox will be the true competitors.

AI
11-23-2012, 04:59 PM
As of right now, the Red Sox are not "competitors". We do have A LOT of cash though, let's see what we do with it but I'd rather stay away from long-term deals and build for the future. Let the kids develop and maybe pick up 1-2 guys (Haren, Victorino) who we can sell off mid-season for some prospects if they are performing well.

bagwell368
11-23-2012, 05:22 PM
Jeter has taken a step back? Gee, must has missed his consistent .310+ BA season and 200 something hits.

Please...

rWAR since 2008:

3.7
2.7
6.4
1.6
0.9
2.1

I prime year, 1 very good, 1 good, 2 meh, 1 awful - yeah that's consistent alright - it's called decline.

TrueYankee
11-23-2012, 05:27 PM
Please...

rWAR since 2008:

3.7
2.7
6.4
1.6
0.9
2.1

I prime year, 1 very good, 1 good, 2 meh, 1 awful - yeah that's consistent alright - it's called decline.

I do not look at advanced stats. Maybe I should put that in my sig in bold, maybe 20 font, in the color blue. Overrated, useless, numbers.

bosox3431
11-23-2012, 05:34 PM
I do not look at advanced stats. Maybe I should put that in my sig in bold, maybe 20 font, in the color blue. Overrated, useless, numbers.

I would ignore them too if they told me things I didnt like about my favorite players.

bosox3431
11-23-2012, 05:48 PM
Jeter has taken a step back? Gee, must has missed his consistent .310+ BA season and 200 something hits.

A-rod, Tex, and Granderson all had down years. With the scrutiny A-rod has been under from Yankee fans, I'll think he would do something this off-season to adjust his batting mechanics and come in a different player. One can only hope...

Granderson needs to get back to hitting for average and not for power.

Tex needs to learn to beat the shift and hit the other way.

If they can adjust, it will still be a top 5 lineup in baseball.

We'll see what happens..the AL East race will come down to the wire again. Every year, it always does. I do not see Orioles getting lucky again. I think Yanks-Rays-Jays-Red Sox will be the true competitors.

In the last 5 years hes had a .310 avg and 200 hits twice. Thats hardly consistent

TrueYankee
11-23-2012, 06:08 PM
I would ignore them too if they told me things I didnt like about my favorite players.

It's not even that. You know how many haters, including Yankee fans, claiming Jeter was done 2 seasons ago? Then he puts together a season like last year. Old-school baseball even 15, 20, hell even 10 years ago was not looking at advanced stats to judge a player. Now it has become this fascination among staticians to grade players based on their FU stat. Dumb.


In the last 5 years hes had a .310 avg and 200 hits twice. Thats hardly consistent

7 of last 8 years BA at .300 or higher. 2010 was .297. Big whoop. Pretty good for an old timer who is declining.

Farsight
11-23-2012, 06:23 PM
It's not even that. You know how many haters, including Yankee fans, claiming Jeter was done 2 seasons ago? Then he puts together a season like last year. Old-school baseball even 15, 20, hell even 10 years ago was not looking at advanced stats to judge a player. Now it has become this fascination among staticians to grade players based on their FU stat. Dumb.



7 of last 8 years BA at .300 or higher. 2010 was .297. Big whoop. Pretty good for an old timer who is declining. So people should only look at a players offensive numbers when deriving a players value? Jeter has always been great offensively for a SS, but hes been consistently terrible defensively. That is why he loses so much value, especially as his offense has been on the decline over the past 4-5 years. When A-rod came to the team, he should have been moved to second, where he would not be as big of a liability defensively. Jeter has been a solid to good player over the past 3 years, but nothing special. With his current injury and his age, i dont expect his defense to get any better, so he will continue to lose more value. So yes, Jeter as really taken a step back since 2010 onwards (some will say 2007 onwards, with a great 2009 season as the outlier).

Fly
11-23-2012, 07:04 PM
I do not look at advanced stats. Maybe I should put that in my sig in bold, maybe 20 font, in the color blue. Overrated, useless, numbers.

I guess if they made Jeter seem great you'd like them, right?

Yankees90.
11-23-2012, 07:57 PM
Ah yes, WAR, or rWar, or ABCWAR or what other WAR someone can come up with. The one stat that sums up everything you need to know about a player :facepalm:

Anything to try and prove your sad hate.

Fly
11-23-2012, 08:26 PM
Ah yes, WAR, or rWar, or ABCWAR or what other WAR someone can come up with. The one stat that sums up everything you need to know about a player :facepalm:

Anything to try and prove your sad hate.

It's just something to provide a quick little view of a player's year instead of having to post all their statistics.

bagwell368
11-23-2012, 09:47 PM
Old-school baseball even 15, 20, hell even 10 years ago was not looking at advanced stats to judge a player.

False.


Now it has become this fascination among staticians to grade players based on their FU stat. Dumb.

Dumb for sure. Stats are stats. The "newer" stats and ways of looking at the game since the early 1980's are vastly better than what came before. Those old stats are all I knew from 1966-early 90's. Before you go off on me being some stat dweeb, I've coached for 15 years, the last 5 for money,


7 of last 8 years BA at .300 or higher. 2010 was .297. Big whoop. Pretty good for an old timer who is declining.

Jeter has always had good BA and OBP, but his SLG isn't great, and every single one of his 5 GG's are a lie. He's poor in the field. That counts.

Great player overall, but his day is almost done. 1996-2006 was his prime, with an outlier at 2008. Regular stats, advanced stats or by the eye. All 3 tell the same sad story - which is 5 of his last 6 years, he's been above average, not elite, not HOF.

bosox3431
11-23-2012, 09:56 PM
It's not even that. You know how many haters, including Yankee fans, claiming Jeter was done 2 seasons ago? Then he puts together a season like last year. Old-school baseball even 15, 20, hell even 10 years ago was not looking at advanced stats to judge a player. Now it has become this fascination among staticians to grade players based on their FU stat. Dumb.



7 of last 8 years BA at .300 or higher. 2010 was .297. Big whoop. Pretty good for an old timer who is declining.

So its dumb to look at more info? Just because you refuse to learn about them or acknowledge their value dont make them dumb.

Advanced stats started in the 80s I do believe. Just because fans didnt know of them and the internet has definitely helped the spread of them.

.297 isnt 300, thats 6 of 8. If you want to call .297 .300 then ill call the year he hit .300 below and say 5 of 8. And what happened 8 years ago is ancient history anyways. 3 of his last 5 seasons hes been an average hitter including 2 of the last 3. Thats decline. Just because he had one more good year doesnt mean those saying hes done were wrong.

bosox3431
11-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Ah yes, WAR, or rWar, or ABCWAR or what other WAR someone can come up with. The one stat that sums up everything you need to know about a player :facepalm:

Anything to try and prove your sad hate.

Funny its always yankee fans saying this, especially when it comes to jeter.

TrueYankee
11-24-2012, 01:46 AM
False.



Dumb for sure. Stats are stats. The "newer" stats and ways of looking at the game since the early 1980's are vastly better than what came before. Those old stats are all I knew from 1966-early 90's. Before you go off on me being some stat dweeb, I've coached for 15 years, the last 5 for money,



Jeter has always had good BA and OBP, but his SLG isn't great, and every single one of his 5 GG's are a lie. He's poor in the field. That counts.

Great player overall, but his day is almost done. 1996-2006 was his prime, with an outlier at 2008. Regular stats, advanced stats or by the eye. All 3 tell the same sad story - which is 5 of his last 6 years, he's been above average, not elite, not HOF.

Questionable.

bagwell368
11-24-2012, 10:34 AM
Questionable.

You say that a player that had a 15 year career that was on average what he did in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 is a HOF'er?

Maybe if he's a Yankee and his name is Phil (NWF I belong in the HOF) Rizzuto, but a Kansas City Royal with those numbers? No chance.

StayOnBoard
11-24-2012, 10:41 AM
You say that a player that had a 15 year career that was on average what he did in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 is a HOF'er?

Maybe if he's a Yankee and his name is Phil (NWF I belong in the HOF) Rizzuto, but a Kansas City Royal with those numbers? No chance.

I absolutely think Jeter will get into the Hall, if that's what your arguing against. He had a pretty damn good career overall. That'll be an interesting poll discussion (or was it done yet?) Where's Jeffy? :D

bagwell368
11-24-2012, 01:37 PM
I absolutely think Jeter will get into the Hall, if that's what your arguing against. He had a pretty damn good career overall. That'll be an interesting poll discussion (or was it done yet?) Where's Jeffy? :D

All you had to do is read post #85 to know.

"Great player overall, but his day is almost done. 1996-2006 was his prime, with an outlier at 2008. Regular stats, advanced stats or by the eye. All 3 tell the same sad story - which is 5 of his last 6 years, he's been above average, not elite, not HOF. "

For those that don't or can't read complex sentences it means that in 5 of the last 6 years Jeter is not playing at a HOF level.

Those 5 years ('07, '08, '10, '11, 12) were 11.0 rWAR (2.2 per year). In another post I said take a 15 year career at that pace and you end up with a non HOF (33.0 rWAR), which is 1/2 of a HOF player. Even with '09 added it's 2.9 per year - or a 15 year career at 43.5 WAR - again not a HOF'er. His prime 6 years he averaged 5.45 rWAR per year. So to anyone with eyes or stats and objectivity, Jeter is in decline - period.

StayOnBoard
11-24-2012, 02:12 PM
All you had to do is read post #85 to know.

"Great player overall, but his day is almost done. 1996-2006 was his prime, with an outlier at 2008. Regular stats, advanced stats or by the eye. All 3 tell the same sad story - which is 5 of his last 6 years, he's been above average, not elite, not HOF. "

For those that don't or can't read complex sentences it means that in 5 of the last 6 years Jeter is not playing at a HOF level.

Those 5 years ('07, '08, '10, '11, 12) were 11.0 rWAR (2.2 per year). In another post I said take a 15 year career at that pace and you end up with a non HOF (33.0 rWAR), which is 1/2 of a HOF player. Even with '09 added it's 2.9 per year - or a 15 year career at 43.5 WAR - again not a HOF'er. His prime 6 years he averaged 5.45 rWAR per year. So to anyone with eyes or stats and objectivity, Jeter is in decline - period.

Wow such hostility, its not my fault the sox suck, I was just asking a question chill out.

AI
11-24-2012, 03:51 PM
Wow such hostility, its not my fault the sox suck, I was just asking a question chill out.

He posts a solid argument to defend what he's been saying and that is your rebuttal? Priceless. :laugh2:

TrueYankee
11-24-2012, 04:12 PM
I see what you're saying Bags. I still disagree. He will probably get into the HOF. If you go to Pakistan, say Derek Jeter, they will know who he is. If you go to Papua New Guinea, say Derek Jeter, they will know who he is. I think his global recognition as an iconic player is enough to get him in as is. Not to mention his 3,200+ hits.

bosox3431
11-24-2012, 04:39 PM
I see what you're saying Bags. I still disagree. He will probably get into the HOF. If you go to Pakistan, say Derek Jeter, they will know who he is. If you go to Papua New Guinea, say Derek Jeter, they will know who he is. I think his global recognition as an iconic player is enough to get him in as is. Not to mention his 3,200+ hits.

Hes not saying he wont. Hes saying his production the last 5 years isnt that of a hall of famer. Jeter is absolutely a hall of famer and one of the best ss of all time, and im 99% positive bags feels the same, ive seen his post on jeter a hundred times

TrueYankee
11-24-2012, 04:40 PM
Hes not saying he wont. Hes saying his production the last 5 years isnt that of a hall of famer. Jeter is absolutely a hall of famer and one of the best ss of all time, and im 99% positive bags feels the same, ive seen his post on jeter a hundred times

I got the impression from his earlier post yesterday he said Jeter is not a HOF.

bosox3431
11-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Ah yes, WAR, or rWar, or ABCWAR or what other WAR someone can come up with. The one stat that sums up everything you need to know about a player :facepalm:

Anything to try and prove your sad hate.

And why do ny fans think that just because you dont dick ride all their favorite players its just hate? Iiff thats what it is ny fans must hate pretty much every other player.

bosox3431
11-24-2012, 04:43 PM
I got the impression from his earlier post yesterday he said Jeter is not a HOF.

Well like I said im positive thats not what he meant.

bagwell368
11-25-2012, 10:45 AM
I see what you're saying Bags. I still disagree. He will probably get into the HOF. If you go to Pakistan, say Derek Jeter, they will know who he is. If you go to Papua New Guinea, say Derek Jeter, they will know who he is. I think his global recognition as an iconic player is enough to get him in as is. Not to mention his 3,200+ hits.

Jeter will not only get in the HOF, I'd bet hard cash he'll end up with a top 10 all time percentage of the vote - on his first ballot. Of course he's a HOF. No doubt whatever.

You did not understand what I said. I said if you take his last six years and had his entire career follow the same pattern (stats), that he's not a HOF player, because he's lost his peak years replaced by declining years. I entered this line of logic because you made the argument that he keeps cranking out .300 BA seasons.

But not all .300 seasons are the same. Jeter is in decline, it's obvious. That doesn't take away what he's already done, it just means he's not what he was.

OTOH I have said these things:


Jeter's "clutch" hitting in the playoffs is poppycock (to see what clutch hiting actually looks like - see David Ortiz - 2003-2007)

Jeter is an abysmal fielder in the regular season, undeserving of every single one of the five GG's he has.

OTOH Jeter is a much better fielder in the playoffs - which is an insult IMO because he doesn't try as hard in season.

He's not the GOAT SS, he's just arrived at #5.

Nomars 3 year contiguous peak is better then Jeter's

The worship and fame are Jeter are not his fault, but if he was in one of the 5 smallest markets all his career, it would be fractional compared to what it is in NY.

Outside of those limited critiques, I have nothing but good things to say about him.

SACNYY
11-25-2012, 02:11 PM
Championship

StryderSox
11-26-2012, 05:05 PM
He posts a solid argument to defend what he's been saying and that is your rebuttal? Priceless. :laugh2:

I dont understand the issue.... his rebuttal was filled with hard hitting facts that can not be questioned. Besides when we only have a losing season once every 15 years or so then all the haters have to pile on quick before we rebuild/retool and remind everyone of how good we are at developing major league talent.

Jeffy25
11-26-2012, 06:09 PM
Old-school baseball even 15, 20, hell even 10 years ago was not looking at advanced stats to judge a player.

That is unbelievably false.


Just because you were unaware of it's existence does not mean it was not consistently being used and measured.


People have been using advanced information to measure the game for decades (literally). And, like in all walks of life, advanced math has been used to gain in advantage in every field for a very long time, baseball, while slow to evolution, has seen MLB front offices go to math consultants for decades. The first that I know for certain, was Branch Rickey, and he wasn't around 10 years ago (in fact, he died 47 years ago).

Jeffy25
11-26-2012, 06:15 PM
Ah yes, WAR, or rWar, or ABCWAR or what other WAR someone can come up with. The one stat that sums up everything you need to know about a player :facepalm:

Anything to try and prove your sad hate.

For those looking to assess Jeter's value.


Jeter is a first ballot, easy pick for a hall of famer.

He has all the intangibles, has been with one team his entire career, multiple championships, and a key cog in this Yankees dynasty.


Advanced stats show him to be a top 5 shortstop (arguably) of all time, and close to the value of Cal Ripken. This is no hate. Great ball player, one of the better one's we have ever seen.


But his defense is laughably bad. He should have been moved to second base over a decade ago, or at least when A-Rod showed up. He can not play the position, and it's one of the most important defensive positions in the game. He handles the routine plays fine, and he even positions himself well, but he watches way too many base hits, and gets a fraction of the outs completed that he should. His bat is very valuable, and fortunately for Jeter, most of the value a position player can create if offensively. And, offensive values are easier to measure with accuracy, so it's safe to say he is one of the all-time greats.

But his defense is simply atrocious, and it has been for over a decade.




This is not blind hate, or raw emotions. This is what the information clearly shows. People aren't just picking and choosing when to use this information to say a player is good or bad. It's the information that exists, it's unbiased, it doesn't know Jeter as a person. It just knows what Jeter accomplishes on the baseball field.


Smart player, great person, hall of famer. A laugh defensively.