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View Full Version : Stan 'The Man' Musial turns 92 today



redbird89
11-21-2012, 01:27 PM
As members of the St. Louis Sports Commission, Maryville University and other associates sought to add broader appeal and increased recognition to the National Sportsmanship Awards that are held here annually, they discussed ways to capture the spirit of the honor — “class, character, selflessness and integrity” in sports.

They wanted a name for the award that could embody such lofty ideals.

They chose Stan Musial.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/our-living-legend-stan-the-man-turns/article_c038ce78-fe7d-5da6-9ef1-52d1a8891e4f.html

He's currently only the 36th oldest living ballplayer, but he's one of the most legendary.

His teammate Red Schoendienst will be 90 in February and still coaches Spring Training. Those two must be doing something right.

Killer Clown
11-21-2012, 01:39 PM
Cardinals forum

todu82
11-21-2012, 02:04 PM
Happy Birthday Stan, one of the more classy guys to play baseball and 1 of the all-time greats.

Jeffy25
11-21-2012, 03:27 PM
I love me some Stan the man.


and I don't think this necessarily belongs in the Cardinals forum. He is a baseball legend, somehow, he is still alive. A top 10 player of all time


When I was in college, I worked at Bank of America in Frontenac (St. Louis rich area), and Stan Musial would come through the drive through occasionally. Only person I will likely ever know that can have a license plate on his Cadillac that says 'Mr. 3000'

And yes, he did have that.

MetsFanatic19
11-21-2012, 03:41 PM
I wish I could've seen him play myself. I've only heard great things about him.

Stress
11-21-2012, 04:17 PM
Met him when I was 5 or 6. My dad got him to sign a poster for me.
Glad to know he's still kicking around

ciaban
11-21-2012, 09:56 PM
I love me some Stan the man.


and I don't think this necessarily belongs in the Cardinals forum. He is a baseball legend, somehow, he is still alive. A top 10 player of all time


When I was in college, I worked at Bank of America in Frontenac (St. Louis rich area), and Stan Musial would come through the drive through occasionally. Only person I will likely ever know that can have a license plate on his Cadillac that says 'Mr. 3000'

And yes, he did have that.
i will take your word on the legend part, growing up in California no one ever talked about him, hell he isn't even the best player from his era still alive, that's Mays, in fact, i can think of 5 people from that era more talked about and beloved off the top of my head.
I hope his quality of life is still good, what's the point of being that old if you wake up not remembering anything and not knowing anyone unable to get up and eating, drinking and pooping through a tube.

Greedy22
11-21-2012, 10:33 PM
Happy Birthday Stan "The Man" Musial! He's such a legend Pujols asked not to be called "El hombre" at one point during his time with the Cardinals.

ESaady
11-21-2012, 11:17 PM
I love Stan.

redbird89
11-21-2012, 11:34 PM
i will take your word on the legend part, growing up in California no one ever talked about him, hell he isn't even the best player from his era still alive, that's Mays, in fact, i can think of 5 people from that era more talked about and beloved off the top of my head.
I hope his quality of life is still good, what's the point of being that old if you wake up not remembering anything and not knowing anyone unable to get up and eating, drinking and pooping through a tube.

You can look up just about any list of the greatest baseball players ever and Musial will be in the top ten, possibly top five.

The reason Musial got so little recognition is because he played in "fly over country."

Baseball Almanac lists him fifth all time, ahead of Mays
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisab100.shtml

and Musial was 10th according to another rating system
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisn100.shtml

Over 22 seasons, Musial had a .331 BA, .417 OBP, .559 SLG, and .976 OPS
Willie Mays line: .302 BA .384 OBP .557 SLG .941 OPS

Statistically Musial was the better offensive player. Each played 22 seasons and each lost a season to the military (Musial WWII and Mays Korea).

Musial had a higher BA and OBP and OPS than Hank Aaron, Honus Wagner, Willie Mays, and Joe Dimaggio. His SLG was better than Aaron, Wagner, and Mays.

Musial had


Three MVPs (and six other top-5 finishes), 20 time All-Star, 3026 games, .331 batting average, .417 OBP, .559 Slugging Percentage, .976 OPS, 159 OPS+, 475 HRs, 1951 RBIs, 3630 Hits, 1599 BBs and 696 Ks.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/610822-stan-musial-baseballs-most-forgotten-and-underrated-superstar

Here's an interesting article comparing Mays and Musial stats-wise
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/mailbag/letters-to-the-editor/greatest-living-ballplayer-stan-or-willie/article_edb7a190-1856-11e0-85bd-0017a4a78c22.html

Musial is one of the greatest baseball players of all time. He doesn't get the attention he deserves.

I think Stan and Mays are both known as class acts.


Willie Mays tells of an All-Star Game in the '50s. The other white players rudely shunned several African-American All Stars. In contrast, Musial walked over to a table of ostracized players and asked if he could join their card game. "I never forgot that. We never forgot that," Mays said.
http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/metro/life/spreading-the-word-stan-musial-more-than-a-class-act/article_b3008fb9-bf52-5130-bca1-c9b934738b3b.html

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 12:20 AM
i will take your word on the legend part, growing up in California no one ever talked about him, hell he isn't even the best player from his era still alive, that's Mays, in fact, i can think of 5 people from that era more talked about and beloved off the top of my head.
I hope his quality of life is still good, what's the point of being that old if you wake up not remembering anything and not knowing anyone unable to get up and eating, drinking and pooping through a tube.

He is pretty safely cemented as a top 10 position player of all time

Mays and Aaron are the only one's from his era ahead of him, and they both started a decade after him, and Musial was a better hitter than both (not as good of an overall player though).

ESaady
11-22-2012, 01:50 AM
The Mays-Musial story makes me smile.

Greedy22
11-22-2012, 01:58 AM
Stan is easily top 10 of all time and hell I have in my top 5 of all time. I know it's cliche, but from everything I have read about him many of his peers have said as great as he was on the field he was an even better man off of it.

Rad_Racing
11-22-2012, 03:09 AM
I shared this in last year's thread:


Great guy from what I've ever heard. One of my favorite stories my dad tells me is about Stan Musial.

My grandfather moved to LA in the late 40s, he was a huge Giants fan and baseball fan in general. Naturally he was excited when baseball came to LA even if it was the Bums. So he took my dad to his first game when they got the chance around '58 at the Colliseum. My dad remembers my grandfather turning to him when Stan Musial came to bat and saying we stand up and clap for him he's a damn good guy and damn good ball player.

Greedy22
11-22-2012, 03:48 AM
I shared this in last year's thread:


Great guy from what I've ever heard. One of my favorite stories my dad tells me is about Stan Musial.

My grandfather moved to LA in the late 40s, he was a huge Giants fan and baseball fan in general. Naturally he was excited when baseball came to LA even if it was the Bums. So he took my dad to his first game when they got the chance around '58 at the Colliseum. My dad remembers my grandfather turning to him when Stan Musial came to bat and saying we stand up and clap for him he's a damn good guy and damn good ball player.

Thanks for sharing. :clap:

ciaban
11-22-2012, 04:48 AM
He is pretty safely cemented as a top 10 position player of all time

Mays and Aaron are the only one's from his era ahead of him, and they both started a decade after him, and Musial was a better hitter than both (not as good of an overall player though).

i don't care if he is the number 2 all time player, i never called into question his stats, merely saying that no one out side the mid west knows who he is, i mean sure people like me do because i am really into baseball but your average fan doesn't give 2 craps about him, i have had friends growing up on the east coast all say that no one ever really talked about him, and that's true out west. In terms of players more beloved there is Mays and Aaron, also Yogi, your a god damn communist if you don't love Yogi.

The other thing i said was that he isn't the best player from his era still alive, which is true because both Mays and Aaron are alive.

But in terms of players from his era i would pick ahead of him if we were doing a draft from the 40's and 50's, beyond the two you stated there is Ted Williams, Mickey Mantel, Joe Dimagio, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Jackie Robinson(assuming i could have him from before age 28 when he broke into the league) so 9th ain't bad.

Greedy22
11-22-2012, 04:56 AM
If you consider yourself a baseball fan and don't know who Stan Musial is well you aren't much of a baseball fan, that's like being a football fan and not knowing who Steve Young is.

ciaban
11-22-2012, 12:37 PM
If you consider yourself a baseball fan and don't know who Stan Musial is well you aren't much of a baseball fan, that's like being a Mormon and not knowing who Steve Young is.

fixed:)
I am talking about casual fans, everyone knows about Hank Aaron and probably yogi too. But players like Musial and Rube Wadel, Mordichi Brown not so much.

redbird89
11-22-2012, 01:00 PM
Just because the coasts (and hence the major media outlets) are too wrapped up in themselves to care about Musial doesn't make him less of a player.

As far as him being beloved, millions of fans love him, even if they live in the middle of the country.


9. Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams
As Bill James once wrote when comparing Musial to Williams, "(I)f I had to choose between the two of them, I'd take Musial in left field, Musial on the basepaths, Musial in the clubhouse, and Williams only with the wood in his hand. And Stan Musial could hit a little, too."

James noted that, while active, Musial was probably the most respected player by the media, fans and other players in the postwar period -- more than Williams, Mantle, Mays or anyone else. While Williams' stature grew through the years, the image of Musial has faded … because he didn't play in Boston or New York. (Thus his ranking as Page 2's No. 1 all-time underrated athlete.)

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/eastcoastyes.html


1. Stan Musial
Current MLB players didn't rank Stan the Man as among the top six living ballplayers in a recent SI survey. But they're not alone in their ignorance. In 1999, Musial, No. 4 all time in hits, seventh in slugging, and near the top of the all-time leaderboard in just about every major batting category, wasn't voted by fans onto MLB's all-century team (he was added as a special pick). In 22 Major League seasons, Musial was an All-Star 20 times, an MVP three times, a batting champ seven times.

So why, when fans lavish adoration on other aging greats, is Stan largely overlooked? Bernie Miklasz, writing in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, recently wrote, "Musial didn't play for New York or Boston teams, so he wasn't romanticized by the hopelessly provincial baseball poets who transformed Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio into gods. And Musial wasn't a controversial figure. He just played the game. And even now, he doesn't manufacture fake 'mystique' to impress gullible writers and fans."

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeunderrated.html

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 01:16 PM
Stan is easily top 10 of all time and hell I have in my top 5 of all time. I know it's cliche, but from everything I have read about him many of his peers have said as great as he was on the field he was an even better man off of it.

I am too young to vouch for this, but my father met him after a game once to sign autographs. Said Stan was obsessed with making kids laugh. He played all kinds of little tricks and card games with the kids, would sign every autograph and was just all around a lot of fun.

He took the baseball player as a role-model persona very seriously.


I know he is getting really frail now, and his health has really deteriorated, but the legend lives on too. The last time I saw him (maybe 18 months ago) he seemed kind of out of it. But once you pass 90, and have done all he has done in his lifetime, I can only imagine that would be reality.

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 01:22 PM
i don't care if he is the number 2 all time player, i never called into question his stats, merely saying that no one out side the mid west knows who he is, i mean sure people like me do because i am really into baseball but your average fan doesn't give 2 craps about him, i have had friends growing up on the east coast all say that no one ever really talked about him, and that's true out west. In terms of players more beloved there is Mays and Aaron, also Yogi, your a god damn communist if you don't love Yogi.

The other thing i said was that he isn't the best player from his era still alive, which is true because both Mays and Aaron are alive.

But in terms of players from his era i would pick ahead of him if we were doing a draft from the 40's and 50's, beyond the two you stated there is Ted Williams, Mickey Mantel, Joe Dimagio, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Jackie Robinson(assuming i could have him from before age 28 when he broke into the league) so 9th ain't bad.

Musial doesn't belong as 9th from that era.

Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, Tris Speaker, Rogers Hornsby, Honus Wagner.

This is the list of position players, at or ahead of Musial.

Clemens, Johnson, and Young are the only pitchers of greater value, he is well ahead of Feller, Spahn, Jackie and Mantle.


Nobody knows about him because he wasn't flashy, and wasn't unique. He was a steady, quiet, great ball player, and was a top 10 player of all time, arguably top 5 depending who you talk to, he has created the 4th most runs of all time (behind Ruth, Bonds, and Cobb)

ciaban
11-22-2012, 02:13 PM
Just because the coasts (and hence the major media outlets) are too wrapped up in themselves to care about Musial doesn't make him less of a player.

As far as him being beloved, millions of fans love him, even if they live in the middle of the country.



http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/eastcoastyes.html



http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeunderrated.html
Most of those millions of fans that love him live in or around Missouri, i never sad that he wasn't a great player, just not as beloved as a lot of other players. Which is why I am surprised this isn't in the cardinals forum. I don't think the coasts have anything to do with it, the east coast ignores everything that goes on out in the Pacific time zone, and players like Erine Banks are beloved by all. Actually that's another guy from his era i would rather have, mostly because his prime years came at SS.

Musial doesn't belong as 9th from that era.

Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, Tris Speaker, Rogers Hornsby, Honus Wagner.

This is the list of position players, at or ahead of Musial.

Clemens, Johnson, and Young are the only pitchers of greater value, he is well ahead of Feller, Spahn, Jackie and Mantle.


Nobody knows about him because he wasn't flashy, and wasn't unique. He was a steady, quiet, great ball player, and was a top 10 player of all time, arguably top 5 depending who you talk to, he has created the 4th most runs of all time (behind Ruth, Bonds, and Cobb)
Which Johnson? Walter Johnson, Randy Johnson? You need to be a little more specific with guys named Johnson, Robinson, Smith and Williams.

By pitchers of Greater Value, do you mean in career rWAR? I don't think we can compare a pitchers WAR to a hitters WAR, they are just to different.

Also, are we talking about from just a batters box perspective? Are we taking defense to, are we taking about positional value as well?

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 02:19 PM
Which Johnson? Walter Johnson, Randy Johnson? You need to be a little more specific with guys named Johnson, Robinson, Smith and Williams.

By pitchers of Greater Value, do you mean in career rWAR? I don't think we can compare a pitchers WAR to a hitters WAR, they are just to different.

Also, are we talking about from just a batters box perspective? Are we taking defense to, are we taking about positional value as well?

Walter Johnson

Not just rWAR, but many other things. Pitcher values can be compared to hitters in a lot of ways, but if you want, for the ease of this conversation, let's just stick with position players.

And I was speaking in terms of overall value except for the final sentence. Musial was a top 10 position player of all time, overall value. Offense, defense, base running.

And is arguably a top 5 hitter of all time as well, ahead of Mays and Aaron.

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 02:25 PM
Did you say you would rather have Ernie Banks over Stan Musial?

Banks career
.274/.330/.500, 122 OPS+

62.5 rWAR

2 seasons over 9 WAR
4 seasons over 7 WAR
5 seasons over 5 WAR

9953 innings at shortstop, 10792 innings at first base, when he hit 30, he lost the ability to play shortstop all together

Musial career
.331/.417/.559 - 159 OPS+

123.4 rWAR

1 season over 10 WAR
2 seasons over 9 WAR
8 seasons over 7 WAR
14 seasons over 5 WAR


No way on earth would I ever take Ernie over Stan.

And in case you are unaware, Stan was a decent defensive left and right fielder for many years, 8900 innings in the outfield (1100 in center), 6100 at first

ciaban
11-22-2012, 02:31 PM
Did you say you would rather have Ernie Banks over Stan Musial?

Banks career
.274/.330/.500, 122 OPS+

62.5 rWAR

2 seasons over 9 WAR
4 seasons over 7 WAR
5 seasons over 5 WAR

9953 innings at shortstop, 10792 innings at first base, when he hit 30, he lost the ability to play shortstop all together

Musial career
.331/.417/.559 - 159 OPS+

123.4 rWAR

1 season over 10 WAR
2 seasons over 9 WAR
8 seasons over 7 WAR
14 seasons over 5 WAR


No way on earth would I ever take Ernie over Stan.

And in case you are unaware, Stan was a decent defensive left and right fielder for many years, 8900 innings in the outfield (1100 in center), 6100 at first
i said because he played SS, offensive contributions are worth more there than at 1st.

and as far as his defensive contributions he was great his first 3 years in the league, but then became a negative defender in the years after, his fielding was something like +8, +13, +14, (looking at fangraphs) had he not gotten injured after enlisting in the army bravely serving for 3 years and earned the purple heart for an injury suffered in the battle of the bulge he might have kept it up for another 10 years.

Unlike that gutless coward Warren Spahn who spent one year leisurely on the beach in Hawaii, he was drafted into the navy instead of enlisting like almost every other baseball player, but instead of doing his job of repairing ships he spent most of his time there on the beach or playing baseball, unlike Musial who earned a officers commission and made it up to Sargent for the bravery he displayed in his 3 years in Europe. In terms of bravery and honor i would pick musial over spahn every time, but i like good pitching more than good hitting.

P.S. Warren Spahn can suck dick for his selfishness and cowardliness he exhibited while his peers bravely served there country some of whom died or were permanently injured fighting tyranny and evil. Such as Off 1st Lt, Harry O'Niell who died at iwo jima.

ciaban
11-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Walter Johnson

Not just rWAR, but many other things. Pitcher values can be compared to hitters in a lot of ways, but if you want, for the ease of this conversation, let's just stick with position players.

And I was speaking in terms of overall value except for the final sentence. Musial was a top 10 position player of all time, overall value. Offense, defense, base running.

And is arguably a top 5 hitter of all time as well, ahead of Mays and Aaron.

He had 78/35 sb/cs, i mean he wasn't bad, but that's not what made him good.

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 02:54 PM
He had 78/35 sb/cs, i mean he wasn't bad, but that's not what made him good.

He did very well taking the extra base and not creating an out.

First to third on singles to the outfield, scoring from first on doubles etc.

That said, still better than Banks ;)

ciaban
11-22-2012, 03:01 PM
He did very well taking the extra base and not creating an out.

First to third on singles to the outfield, scoring from first on doubles etc.

That said, still better than Banks ;)

you mean what everyone else is expected too? Like i said, not a bad base runner, but not what made him the man. It was his hitting and courage and bravery and service of 3 BIG LEAGUE SEASONS he gave up to the country in it's time of need.

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 04:19 PM
you mean what everyone else is expected too? Like i said, not a bad base runner, but not what made him the man. It was his hitting and courage and bravery and service of 3 BIG LEAGUE SEASONS he gave up to the country in it's time of need.

Obviously it's not what made him special. But he did it better than most big leaguers.

Even with missing those 3 seasons, he was still a 24 time all-star, and a top 5 hitter of all time.

That's what made him 'the man'

ciaban
11-22-2012, 07:27 PM
Obviously it's not what made him special. But he did it better than most big leaguers.

Even with missing those 3 seasons, he was still a 24 time all-star, and a top 5 hitter of all time.

That's what made him 'the man'

unlike that commie cowardly disgrace warren spahn! :mad:

wait, how old was he when he retired? if he was a 24 time all star and missed 3 prime seasons

Jeffy25
11-22-2012, 08:35 PM
He was an all-star from ages 22 through 42, he only missed the 1945 season (his age 24 season). He joined the war a little late.

SportsAndrew25
11-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Legend.

whitesoxfan83
11-22-2012, 09:47 PM
The most underrated player in the history of baseball, without a doubt.

The fact he was left off of the 20th century team proves this...

Greedy22
11-22-2012, 09:56 PM
I am too young to vouch for this, but my father met him after a game once to sign autographs. Said Stan was obsessed with making kids laugh. He played all kinds of little tricks and card games with the kids, would sign every autograph and was just all around a lot of fun.

He took the baseball player as a role-model persona very seriously.


I know he is getting really frail now, and his health has really deteriorated, but the legend lives on too. The last time I saw him (maybe 18 months ago) he seemed kind of out of it. But once you pass 90, and have done all he has done in his lifetime, I can only imagine that would be reality.

My grandpa and great uncle both have told many stories about him, I am too young as well lol. The stories were very much similar to the ones your dad has told you about.

Yes he did.

It's sad he doesn't have much time left, he will be greatly missed when his time comes.

ciaban
11-22-2012, 10:38 PM
He was an all-star from ages 22 through 42, he only missed the 1945 season (his age 24 season). He joined the war a little late.
he wasn't too young to join when the US got into the war(1942) he would have been 21 or so...damn it, I though he missed 3 years bravely serving in the war, now i have to go do some god damn research.

My grandpa and great uncle both have told many stories about him, I am too young as well lol. The stories were very much similar to the ones your dad has told you about.

Yes he did.

It's sad he doesn't have much time left, he will be greatly missed when his time comes.
Isn't that the problem, since he is so unknown he wont be greatly missed.

ciaban
11-23-2012, 12:19 AM
So it turns out everything i said about Warren Spahn and Stan the Man was backwards, and i would like to formally apologize to Warren Spahn and retract every thing i sad about him. He was a very brave man who fought and was wounded in the battle of the bulge, he also fought in the battle for Ludendorrf bridge. He was the one who earned a battle field commission's not Stan Musial.

It turns out that the St. Louis Browns had lost many of their best young players to the war effort, unlike the cards who went on to win the world series with their star slugger Musial who had totally avoided the draft while other ball players his age fought against tyranny.
When it appeared there was no way out of services he joined the navy instead of the Army because the base he would have been sent to Fort Riley which would have got him sent out to fight in the battle of the bulge, instead he bravely chose to go to Hawaii and play baseball instead of doing the job he was actually assigned to do.

BTW Cards legendary announcer Jack Buck fought in the battle for remagen bridge where he took shrapnel in his arm and leg. Maybe he should be the one with the knick name "the man" instead of Stanley...

ciaban
11-23-2012, 12:27 AM
GOD DAMN IT, for years i thought Stan was this great american and a war hero, turns out all he could do was hit a fukin baseball. I am really disappointed. Sorry Warren looks like stan was the gutless coward

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 03:39 AM
He was an all-star from ages 22 through 42, he only missed the 1945 season (his age 24 season). He joined the war a little late.
he wasn't too young to join when the US got into the war(1942) he would have been 21 or so...damn it, I though he missed 3 years bravely serving in the war, now i have to go do some god damn research.

My grandpa and great uncle both have told many stories about him, I am too young as well lol. The stories were very much similar to the ones your dad has told you about.

Yes he did.

It's sad he doesn't have much time left, he will be greatly missed when his time comes.
Isn't that the problem, since he is so unknown he wont be greatly missed. He will be greatly missed by cards fans and devoted baseball fans like myself. Idc about the casual fans :)

ciaban
11-23-2012, 02:16 PM
He will be greatly missed by cards fans and devoted baseball fans like myself. Idc about the casual fans :)

i dig this.

nymetsrule
11-23-2012, 02:53 PM
One of the greatest of all time, congrats to him!

Big Zo
11-23-2012, 06:13 PM
GOD DAMN IT, for years i thought Stan was this great american and a war hero, turns out all he could do was hit a fukin baseball. I am really disappointed. Sorry Warren looks like stan was the gutless coward

Ah shaddap, you commie prick!

Cub_StuckinSTL
11-23-2012, 09:47 PM
If this wasn't a cards player Jeffy would've moved it to a team forum. I don't see Jerry rice threads popping up on his bday in the nfl main

ciaban
11-23-2012, 10:12 PM
Ah shaddap, you commie prick!

Mr Mussial totally avoided war service while men his age went off to die, and that includes legend Jack "the man" buck cardinals great announcer. I was under this impression for years that he was a brave soldier, but it's the exact opposite. Warren Spahn is someone who deserves everyone respect and admiration.

Jeffy25
11-23-2012, 11:20 PM
He didn't totally avoid it, he gave away a full season in the middle of his prime to it.


You are over-reacting to this whole war thing 70 years later. He served, so did a lot of players. Hero to commie, you are being a little extreme.

Jeffy25
11-23-2012, 11:20 PM
If this wasn't a cards player Jeffy would've moved it to a team forum. I don't see Jerry rice threads popping up on his bday in the nfl main

Somebody has to make one ya know.


And more so, it's the fact that Musial is actually still alive, and the thread stays alive because of how under-rated Musial is.

bosox3431
11-23-2012, 11:30 PM
One of my favorite players I never seen play. Very underappreciated among casual fans.

ciaban
11-24-2012, 12:19 AM
He didn't totally avoid it, he gave away a full season in the middle of his prime to it.


You are over-reacting to this whole war thing 70 years later. He served, so did a lot of players. Hero to commie, you are being a little extreme.

he didn't give away a year he enlisted when it became obvious he would be drafted and when he went to hawii his job was to tow in war damaged ships but spent most days playing baseball. Until his dad got sick then he went on leave and didn't do anything for almost 6 months. I doubt he wouldn't have stopped plying baseball for that long.

He went from war hero to being just some guy because he wasn't a war hero. What particular thing did he do that would makes him a war hero? I mean do you put what he did along side Pat Tillman?

Besides aren't you being extremely selective? You had no problem with anything i said about Warren Spahn? In any of the 3-4 posts i made but now that i reversed it your going to make a stand? So with Stan the war was 70 years ago but when i said those exact same things
incorrectly your just fine with it? Really? Okay.

ciaban
11-24-2012, 12:26 AM
Somebody has to make one ya know.


And more so, it's the fact that Musial is actually still alive, and the thread stays alive because of how under-rated Musial is.

Mays is still alive, and he was objectively the better ball player, are we going to start doing a thing where we have a birthday thread for every living player in the HoF?

redbird89
11-24-2012, 12:35 AM
Mays is still alive, and he was objectively the better ball player, are we going to start doing a thing where we have a birthday thread for every living player in the HoF?

There are four Hall of Famers over the age of 90 living (Bobby Doerr (94), Monte Irvin (93), Stan Musial (92), and Ralph Kiner (90)), and one who is 89 1/2 (Red Schoendienst). If we have just threads for them that's five threads a year. Wouldn't bother me.

Musial is a legend. Mays, too, but he's not quite as old. It's quite an accomplishment just to get to 90, but Musial is also a legendary player in the Hall of Fame. If anybody deserves a birthday thread it would be him. Not saying Mays doesn't, but he's not one of the oldest living Hall of Famers like Musial is.

Greedy22
11-24-2012, 12:52 AM
he didn't give away a year he enlisted when it became obvious he would be drafted and when he went to hawii his job was to tow in war damaged ships but spent most days playing baseball. Until his dad got sick then he went on leave and didn't do anything for almost 6 months. I doubt he wouldn't have stopped plying baseball for that long.

He went from war hero to being just some guy because he wasn't a war hero. What particular thing did he do that would makes him a war hero? I mean do you put what he did along side Pat Tillman?

Besides aren't you being extremely selective? You had no problem with anything i said about Warren Spahn? In any of the 3-4 posts i made but now that i reversed it your going to make a stand? So with Stan the war was 70 years ago but when i said those exact same things
incorrectly your just fine with it? Really? Okay.

Killed by friendly fire and used as a recruiting tool :pity:

He still served, less than 1% of the country has served their country. It's admirable regardless if he was a war hero or not. I think I missed your whole thing on Warren Spahn lol.

bosox3431
11-24-2012, 01:40 AM
Tillman could have got out of the military to and chose not to. In the end it cost him his life.

7chuck7
11-24-2012, 01:40 AM
I wish I could've seen him play myself. I've only heard great things about him.

In 1963 our coaches took my Little League team to the Polo Grounds to see the Mets play the Cards. We had first row seats in the centerfield bleachers. About an hour before the game Stan Musial walked out to where we were sitting. He was carying a white bag. It was filled with baseballs and he tossed them two at a time up into the seats. We have no idea why he did it but the crowd loved it.

I caught one and I still have it. It is on top of my PC that I am typing this from.

Teufelshunde4
11-24-2012, 01:47 AM
In 1963 our coaches took my Little League team to the Polo Grounds to see the Mets play the Cards.

How would todays players and managers play in the Polo Grounds?

ciaban
11-24-2012, 03:07 AM
There are four Hall of Famers over the age of 90 living (Bobby Doerr (94), Monte Irvin (93), Stan Musial (92), and Ralph Kiner (90)), and one who is 89 1/2 (Red Schoendienst). If we have just threads for them that's five threads a year. Wouldn't bother me.

Musial is a legend. Mays, too, but he's not quite as old. It's quite an accomplishment just to get to 90, but Musial is also a legendary player in the Hall of Fame. If anybody deserves a birthday thread it would be him. Not saying Mays doesn't, but he's not one of the oldest living Hall of Famers like Musial is.
He doesn't deserve a birth day thread because he is only 81? Really? I haven't seen any B-day threads for Bobby Doerr or Ralph Kiner? Living that long is as much luck as anything else, why don't we wait until someone turns 100 because that's an accomplishment. Or move this to the cardinals forum.

Tillman could have got out of the military to and chose not to. In the end it cost him his life.
Tillman could have just taken the millions the cards were offering him and never enlisted, he didn't join the army air borne rangers because he was afraid for his safety. He was a brave man and a true hero.

Jeffy25
11-24-2012, 04:24 PM
Besides aren't you being extremely selective? You had no problem with anything i said about Warren Spahn? In any of the 3-4 posts i made but now that i reversed it your going to make a stand?

No, I just rolled my eyes behind my keyboard. I'm not standing to defend Stan, or standing to fight or defend anybody.

This is a baseball forum and you are passing judgments on baseball players from 70 years ago as if you were there.

The whole thing is a little exhausting to read, because it doesn't matter to me, I don't care about these people as people beyond their baseball careers (for the most part).

I don't care if Stan Musial skipped the entire war, or if he was a 4 star general with a purple heart. It doesn't change his baseball career, which is all we are here to discuss on a baseball forum. I just think you went a little on about it, that's all.

ciaban
11-24-2012, 06:48 PM
No, I just rolled my eyes behind my keyboard. I'm not standing to defend Stan, or standing to fight or defend anybody.

This is a baseball forum and you are passing judgments on baseball players from 70 years ago as if you were there.

The whole thing is a little exhausting to read, because it doesn't matter to me, I don't care about these people as people beyond their baseball careers (for the most part).

I don't care if Stan Musial skipped the entire war, or if he was a 4 star general with a purple heart. It doesn't change his baseball career, which is all we are here to discuss on a baseball forum. I just think you went a little on about it, that's all.Sure you did, but it was only a problem when i corrected myself. That when you had enough? If you thought i was slandering someone 3-4 times incorrectly why didn't you say something, do you have a rule where you wont say something until the 5th post? So if i called Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire a pedophile you would wait till the 5th post to say something?

I know it's like 70 years ago...forever, but why don't you tell that to anyone who lived through the horrors, just tell them it was 70 years ago and they should just get over it and move on with their lives...

So what if it was 70 years ago, don't we pass judgement on players careers from 70+ years ago? If i said that Rube Marquard doesn't belong in the hall of fame should we find the one person old enough to have watched him play tell us if he did or not.

Ted Williams service impacted and changed his career he gave away 5 prime years, It greatly impacted Ernie Raimondi Oakland native who died Jan 26th in France. That entire generation was involved in the war effort, and in every country that the war was fought in. It's a little different.

Jeffy25
11-24-2012, 06:51 PM
Sure you did, but it was only a problem when i corrected myself, and gave Spahn the credit he deserved.
Or you could notice that I actually continued to ignore it for several more posts (4 exactly), and only said you were going off on it recently.



I know it's like 70 years ago...forever, but why don't you tell that to anyone who lived through the horrors, just tell them it was 70 years ago and they should just get over it and move on with their lives...
Jesus Christ.

How on earth did you get to there? That is clearly not what I was saying.

ciaban
11-24-2012, 07:47 PM
Or you could notice that I actually continued to ignore it for several more posts (4 exactly), and only said you were going off on it recently.

below are the 4 post your referencing, these are the only ones it could be, one was me question how he could have only missed his age 24 season and served 3 years at the same time,
the next was me clarifying the war records of Musial and Spahn, also Jack Buck too, just for fun, because Jack Buck was a brave man and a good solder, nothing negitive was said about him, he did enlist when it became evident he would be drafted he did go to hawii, and he did play baseball most days in stead of his M.O.S. there was nothing negative said about anyone, that was factually what those men were up to.
Then Someone called me a communist, i am not sure why someones war record means i support the Govt. ownership of all property. But the only thing i said was retracting the gutless coward remark i made about Spahn and reversing it. Which might be what actually annoyed you.
The 4th post was me giving credit to Jack "the man " Buck, and Warren Spahn, not very mean at all.

So yeah, i think this is because I am saying it about Stan, and you didn't have a problem with anything i said before correcting myself.


he wasn't too young to join when the US got into the war(1942) he would have been 21 or so...damn it, I though he missed 3 years bravely serving in the war, now i have to go do some god damn research.

Isn't that the problem, since he is so unknown he wont be greatly missed.


So it turns out everything i said about Warren Spahn and Stan the Man was backwards, and i would like to formally apologize to Warren Spahn and retract every thing i sad about him. He was a very brave man who fought and was wounded in the battle of the bulge, he also fought in the battle for Ludendorrf bridge. He was the one who earned a battle field commission's not Stan Musial.

It turns out that the St. Louis Browns had lost many of their best young players to the war effort, unlike the cards who went on to win the world series with their star slugger Musial who had totally avoided the draft while other ball players his age fought against tyranny.
When it appeared there was no way out of services he joined the navy instead of the Army because the base he would have been sent to Fort Riley which would have got him sent out to fight in the battle of the bulge, instead he bravely chose to go to Hawaii and play baseball instead of doing the job he was actually assigned to do.

BTW Cards legendary announcer Jack Buck fought in the battle for remagen bridge where he took shrapnel in his arm and leg. Maybe he should be the one with the knick name "the man" instead of Stanley...


GOD DAMN IT, for years i thought Stan was this great american and a war hero, turns out all he could do was hit a fukin baseball. I am really disappointed. Sorry Warren looks like stan was the gutless coward


Mr Mussial totally avoided war service while men his age went off to die, and that includes legend Jack "the man" buck cardinals great announcer. I was under this impression for years that he was a brave soldier, but it's the exact opposite. Warren Spahn is someone who deserves everyone respect and admiration.

ciaban
11-24-2012, 07:52 PM
Unless that is you think that Warren Spahn and Jack "the man" Buck don't deserve everyone respect and admiration.

VRP723
11-24-2012, 07:55 PM
The Mays-Musial story makes me smile.

:nod:

Jeffy25
11-24-2012, 08:33 PM
Unless that is you think that Warren Spahn and Jack "the man" Buck don't deserve everyone respect and admiration.

Way to keep strawmanning.


I never came anywhere close to saying that in any way, shape, or form.

ciaban
11-24-2012, 08:58 PM
Way to keep strawmanning.


I never came anywhere close to saying that in any way, shape, or form.

as in it has been done multiple times?

I didn't refute any argument you made by inserting that line, it was obviously rhetorical. I'm not sure that was a straw man argument at all though i guess it is boarder line if you ignore the fact that it wasn't a real question. Also, I think that strawman line gets way over used on this site.

bagwell368
11-25-2012, 10:34 AM
Guys like him and Kaline are products of the time. They can't and don't exist in today's mega money and twittersphere environment.

If Bonds hadn't juiced and his career followed a normal decline for top shelf HOF hitters, then guess what? I'm quite sure Musial would have topped Bonds as a hitter. Bonds would strike back on the fielding and base running, and they probably would be each others #1 comp. That's how great Musial was as a player.

There are no shortages of stories about him as a man.

Anyone that objects to Musial as a thread or touchstone in this MLB Forum surely doesn't understand the history of the game.