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View Full Version : Is this the year Bosh surpasses Wade



Chronz
11-21-2012, 12:09 PM
Both in terms of production and intangibles because I always felt he was more valuable. But this year hes off to a great start and Wade may be declining. Is this the year for a role reversal?

Big Zo
11-21-2012, 12:11 PM
You shut your dirty whore mouth.

RLundi
11-21-2012, 12:11 PM
Didn't Bosh get off to a great start last season too before settling down? I just don't think Bosh has enough of an alpha male personality to outshine Wade. Wade's a little gimpy now but I think once he comes back strong he'll want to prove something.

Chronz
11-21-2012, 12:12 PM
Didn't Bosh get off to a great start last season too before settling down? I just don't think Bosh has enough of an alpha male personality to outshine Wade. Wade's a little gimpy now but I think once he comes back strong he'll want to prove something.

Come to think of it he did, IIRC it was also because Wade was out. I think Bosh+Bron have a 100% winning% without Wade.

justinnum1
11-21-2012, 12:13 PM
Maybe but I don't think so. Bosh is playing out of his mind right now. He is shooting 60% on long 2s. That won't keep up. And wade will improve.

justinnum1
11-21-2012, 12:14 PM
didn't bosh get off to a great start last season too before settling down? I just don't think bosh has enough of an alpha male personality to outshine wade. Wade's a little gimpy now but i think once he comes back strong he'll want to prove something.

come to think of it he did, iirc it was also because wade was out. I think bosh+bron have a 100% winning% without wade.
17-3

StarvingKnick22
11-21-2012, 12:20 PM
Its still Wade's Team. Its alway's been Wade's team.

Gibby23
11-21-2012, 12:25 PM
I think so, Wade doesn't look right.

GiantsSwaGG
11-21-2012, 12:28 PM
Wade has stunk this year. Bosh has been playing well

RLundi
11-21-2012, 12:36 PM
Come to think of it he did, IIRC it was also because Wade was out. I think Bosh+Bron have a 100% winning% without Wade.


17-3

Only 7 of those games were against teams with .500 records. Their record in those games? 4-3.

phantasyyy
11-21-2012, 12:37 PM
Its still Wade's Team. Its alway's been Wade's team.

it clearly lebrons team now lol

sep11ie
11-21-2012, 12:44 PM
This no longer Wade's team. Bosh has clearly taken over as co-star on this team. Wade(like I've said before) is gonna be one of those dudes that has a drastic drop off then disappears from the league.

rickshaw
11-21-2012, 12:47 PM
Its still Wade's Team. Its alway's been Wade's team.

And NY is Amare's team too.

justinnum1
11-21-2012, 12:49 PM
it's brons team...and wade is my favorite player.

Hustla23
11-21-2012, 12:53 PM
It's clearly Joel Anthony's team.

Munkeysuit
11-21-2012, 01:03 PM
Both in terms of production and intangibles because I always felt he was more valuable. But this year hes off to a great start and Wade may be declining. Is this the year for a role reversal?


I wouldn't be too sure about that idea in it's entirety, I can see Bosh becoming more of an integral part of what they do on both ends of the floor, they did a great job last season at kind of making him seem invisible, even though he still produced. I think this year the Heat will feature his strengths a bit more, to force the opposition to cater to their game and how they are playing it.
He is the one player that exposes opposing defenses the best, Lebron and Wade are more of the "force the issue" or "make the right play" type of players. it's only common sense, being that they handle the ball the majority of the time.
Chris causes the most problems because he doesn't handle the ball, he is always the recipient so he can get to his sweet spots and "force" the defense to come to him...he also exposes double teams when its a drive and kick situation, because he can shoot so well.
I just think this year, it won't be so under the radar, he is more efficient than he was last year, but he is not doing anything different (outside of more pick and rolls)than he was last year.

With all that being said, he still needs to be fed the ball, Wade and Lebron will still have the bulk of the scoring options and will have the ball in their hands more than he will, Wades production has been down, that is no lie, but he's also banged up and hasn't really had a chance to fully get his game going yet.

JordansBulls
11-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Its still Wade's Team. Its alway's been Wade's team.

This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

Gibby23
11-21-2012, 01:26 PM
This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

False. They have MVP over there who runs that team and the NBA for now.

BKdoubleStacker
11-21-2012, 01:29 PM
This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

I seriously thought this was sarcastic at first.

Either way I was saying this last year, wade will see a steep decline

Nick O
11-21-2012, 01:31 PM
bosh is more valuable for sure.

KnickaBocka.44
11-21-2012, 01:43 PM
Yes, I called it a long time ago.

SteBO
11-21-2012, 01:46 PM
In terms of production, probably. At least I can't truly make a legitimate argument against it now, but it's still early.

blahblahyoutoo
11-21-2012, 01:46 PM
Wade has stunk this year. Bosh has been playing well

wade's been injured.

BKdoubleStacker
11-21-2012, 01:47 PM
wade's been injured.

thats kind of the point

diu9leilomo
11-21-2012, 03:13 PM
no, bosh needs to go back playing the 4 and crash boards, he cant play center.

heyman321
11-21-2012, 03:17 PM
This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

Just like when T-mac went to Detroit to join forces with Ben Wallace who took his franchise to the championship as the man!

justinnum1
11-21-2012, 03:18 PM
no, bosh needs to go back playing the 4 and crash boards, he cant play center.

He is leading all centers in PER.

xxplayerxx23
11-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Wades team :laugh: Its clearly Lebron's team. Back on topic, Id have to say no. I think if wade can stay healthy he is more of a co star then Bosh, Maybe its just my opinion but I still think wade is a top 5-7 player in the league when healthy.

Chronz
11-21-2012, 03:37 PM
no, bosh needs to go back playing the 4 and crash boards, he cant play center.

I think this might be the best option if their defense doesnt recover.

Chronz
11-21-2012, 03:39 PM
This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

So your saying Wade was in peak form for their championship run in these last playoffs?


BTW, remember when Bron joined and I told you it would take alil while but eventually Bron will get the most credit, start winning MVP's (Regular and Finals) again and be perceived as his teams most vital player.

Ebbs
11-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Its still Wade's Team. Its alway's been Wade's team.

Do Miami fans still believe this?

Also Chronz I think it happened last year.

SteBO
11-21-2012, 03:52 PM
Do Miami fans still believe this?

Also Chronz I think it happened last year.
The blind ones do. As for me, absolutely not.

thekmp211
11-21-2012, 04:02 PM
at the latest this trend began in earnest in the postseason. he's the only traditional big man presence on that team.

Sactown
11-21-2012, 04:09 PM
Honestly surprised they don't actually run plays for him, or that's at least what I've heard. I also heard his nickname is "Mr. Random" because of it? Seems like they'd be more affecting run plays through him and Lebron and using Wade as more of an option on the play as a slasher.. Idk just my opinion

Nick O
11-21-2012, 04:20 PM
i still love how people thought he should never have been considered part of the "big 3" . yet hes shut everyone up now . Bosh is damn good and comes to play every night. hes doing everything well this year, and yes. hes more valuable than wade

Ebbs
11-21-2012, 04:22 PM
The blind ones do. As for me, absolutely not.

Yea I hate when I hear that still.

Damn Skip Bayless as well. I still have friends tell me LeBron is Robin and Wade is batman.

GiantsSwaGG
11-21-2012, 04:28 PM
wade's been injured.

Ahhh duhhh

Longhornfan1234
11-21-2012, 04:44 PM
Chris Bosh is clearly better than Wade.

Bruno
11-21-2012, 04:46 PM
This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

your argument is five months out of date.

Bruno
11-21-2012, 04:46 PM
this could be the year a lot of players surpass wade (ive said for years that Wade will have a sharp decline in his 30's because of the way he plays), if he doesn't pick it up. id like to see what he can give us semi-healthy before writing him off though. but, this could be the year.

Money_23
11-21-2012, 05:01 PM
all time rankings: no.
seasonal rankings: yes.
more important: has been since they got together.

TylerSL
11-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Bosh is the most important player of our team. Bosh is what makes it all work, the puzzle piece that makes the rest of the puzzle fit. So if the question is who more valuble to the Heat, it would be Bosh. However, Wade is and always will be the superior player. Injury is more of an issue for Wade than being on the decline is. Spoelstra needs to do a better job of managing his minutes, much like what Pop does for Timmy D. Without Wade, Miami cant win a title so people need to stop acting like Miami can win without Wade, they cant. Without Wade and with Lebron/Bosh in the regular season, their record may be 17-3, but against winning teams its only 4-3 and its only the regular season. Miami needs all 3 guys to get anywhere. Wade is my favorite player and is the Miami Heat GOAT. Bosh will never become a better basketball player, but Bosh is the most important part of the Heat because he opens lanes and spreads the floor, as well as being a versatile big who can attack the paint, all while being a very good free throw shooting big. I've been saying Bosh is the most important Heat player since he came here, but Wade is and always will be the superior player.


/thread

Minimal
11-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Bosh is the most important player of our team. Bosh is what makes it all work, the puzzle piece that makes the rest of the puzzle fit. So if the question is who more valuble to the Heat, it would be Bosh. However, Wade is and always will be the superior player. Injury is more of an issue for Wade than being on the decline is. Spoelstra needs to do a better job of managing his minutes, much like what Pop does for Timmy D. Without Wade, Miami cant win a title so people need to stop acting like Miami can win without Wade, they cant. Without Wade and with Lebron/Bosh in the regular season, their record may be 17-3, but against winning teams its only 4-3 and its only the regular season. Miami needs all 3 guys to get anywhere. Wade is my favorite player and is the Miami Heat GOAT. Bosh will never become a better basketball player, but Bosh is the most important part of the Heat because he opens lanes and spreads the floor, as well as being a versatile big who can attack the paint, all while being a very good free throw shooting big. I've been saying Bosh is the most important Heat player since he came here, but Wade is and always will be the superior player.


/thread

False. LeBron is the most important player of the HEAT, and I think every Miami fan should realise that. He is like the engine of the team, everything is set up around LeBron. Ray Allen wouldn't shoot .512 from 3 without LeBron. He automatically makes players around him much better. I don't think you can say the same about Bosh.

TylerSL
11-21-2012, 06:24 PM
False. LeBron is the most important player of the HEAT, and I think every Miami fan should realise that. He is like the engine of the team, everything is set up around LeBron. Ray Allen wouldn't shoot .512 from 3 without LeBron. He automatically makes players around him much better. I don't think you can say the same about Bosh.

I agree with you that Lebron is the reason why everybody is better. Lebron is part of the reason Ray Allen is shooting .512. Without Bosh opening up lanes, Lebron couldnt attack and kick out to Ray or anybody else at the efficient way he does. Everything runs through Lebron in part because of Bosh. Without Bosh's pressence, Lebron, and Wade for that matter, cant attack the paint at the effeciency they do. And without that, guys like Ray Allen, Shane Battier, or Mario Chalmers dont get wide open. So yes, the offense does all run through Lebron, but in large part, because of Bosh's pressence and ability to hit long jumpers therefore pulling opposing bigs out of the lane, and his ability to get to the line and hit FT's. All 3 of our guys are invaluble. But they only work together because of Bosh, which is my point.

Andrew32
11-21-2012, 06:38 PM
Wade was Top 5 last year...

This year he has had a number of fantastic games where he has looked like a clear-cut Top 5 player again.

He also had a brutal stinker or two which fuxed his averages but c'mon people...

By seasons end Wade will be a Top 5... or at worst clear-cut Top 10 player again.

I always have liked Bosh but c'mon... he isn't on Wades level even though he has played better overall through this small sample size.

bucketss
11-21-2012, 06:42 PM
Its still Wade's Team. Its alway's been Wade's team.

depends on who you ask have you asked wade!??

bucketss
11-21-2012, 06:42 PM
This. Wade has always been the proven commodity of anyone on the Heat. He didn't need to join forces with guys in there prime in order to win. He took his franchise to the top from the bottom. The other guys had to join him to win as he was already a proven winner.

well tell that to wade than because he disagrees with you #fail.

Andrew32
11-21-2012, 06:46 PM
depends on who you ask have you asked wade!??
Wade is the soul of the team.
Wade & Lebron are the leaders.

Chronz
11-21-2012, 06:49 PM
Wade was Top 5 last year...

This year he has had a number of fantastic games where he has looked like a clear-cut Top 5 player again.

He also had a brutal stinker or two which fuxed his averages but c'mon people...

By seasons end Wade will be a Top 5... or at worst clear-cut Top 10 player again.

I always have liked Bosh but c'mon... he isn't on Wades level even though he has played better overall through this small sample size.

Your too kind. Lots of players had games where they looked like clear-cut top 5 players, at this juncture Jamal Crawford looks closer to Top-5 than Wade.

I hope he turns it around but its not out of the question that an aging, athletic based player who has been in a rut dating back to last season, is declining before our eyes.

Jint.
11-21-2012, 06:50 PM
like a Bosh

Andrew32
11-21-2012, 06:54 PM
Your too kind. Lots of players had games where they looked like clear-cut top 5 players, at this juncture Jamal Crawford looks closer to Top-5 than Wade.
My point is why are you so quick to assume his average level of play by seasons end wont be closer to the 5-6 great games he has had.

You assume he will decline or keep playing like he did in those 1-3 stinker games.


athletic based player.
Wade is an incredibly skilled player.
Do you judge skill purely by raw shooting ability?
Is Ray Allen more skilled then Kobe?

Wade doesn't need his Prime Athleticism to remain a Top 10 player in this league imo.

John Walls Era
11-21-2012, 06:57 PM
Duh Man

- JordanBulls

Ebbs
11-21-2012, 07:04 PM
Duh Man

- JordanBulls

:laugh:

naps
11-21-2012, 07:34 PM
"On internet people live on the moment"--Unknown.

Great quote.

Chronz
11-21-2012, 09:00 PM
My point is why are you so quick to assume his average level of play by seasons end wont be closer to the 5-6 great games he has had.

You assume he will decline or keep playing like he did in those 1-3 stinker games.


Wade is an incredibly skilled player.
Do you judge skill purely by raw shooting ability?
Is Ray Allen more skilled then Kobe?

Wade doesn't need his Prime Athleticism to remain a Top 10 player in this league imo.
Im not assuming anything, thats why its a question and not a prediction thread. But I dont know about the skills to age gracefully bit. Hes abandoned the 3pt game and his ft rate has declined. One is skill based the other is athletic based, and it seems hes losing both. You cant attack the rack your entire career. Hes a great passer but some of that is predicated on his drive and kick ability on those forays to the rim. Like I said I hope for the best but considering his recent struggles, doubt begins to rise.

C-Style
11-21-2012, 09:10 PM
It looks like Wade is done, too inconsistent, they should make Bosh the 2nd option, he's clearly playing a lot better.

Andrew32
11-21-2012, 09:11 PM
But I dont know about the skills to age gracefully bit. Hes abandoned the 3pt game and his ft rate has declined. One is skill based the other is athletic based, and it seems hes losing both. You cant attack the rack your entire career.

So you think the only things he can do to score is to attack the rim off the dribble or shoot 3pointers...? C'mon bro.
Wade has a sick post game and numerous patented moves that aren't based on athleticism that he can use to get off high percentage shots from the mid-range area and around the basket/post area.

Also his ball handling ability and balance are so good that he should still have no issue getting to the basket off the dribble even with less athletic ability.


Hes a great passer but some of that is predicated on his drive and kick ability on those forays to the rim.
I think he is just naturally gifted in terms of court vision and passing ability.


It looks like Wade is done.
Please leave. :facepalm:

C-Style
11-21-2012, 10:12 PM
he's injury prone, in his 30's and has not developed a game thats gonna help him stay good.

MackSnackWrap
11-21-2012, 10:23 PM
He could but bosh will never be allowed the touches consistently for him to be 2nd option. If bosh was given more touches most definitely. Heat need to make him the focal point cause when he is successful, so is the team. most important player.

Andrew32
11-21-2012, 10:24 PM
he's injury prone, in his 30's and has not developed a game thats gonna help him stay good.
Don't be ignorant.

He is one of the most skilled wing players of this generation unless you define skill purely by shooting ability and even then when he is healthy he has a solid jumper.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-21-2012, 10:31 PM
This thread is about Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade.


However, I decided to hit CTRL + F and did a search of "Kobe" for the llullz, and lo and behold, I came across that word in Post #51 by Andrew32.


You're Welcome.

bagwell368
11-21-2012, 10:34 PM
More like the year Wade declines enough so that Bosh ends up being better.

Big Zo
11-21-2012, 11:17 PM
28 points tonight for Mr. "Declining."

Andrew32
11-21-2012, 11:25 PM
28 points tonight for Mr. "Declining."

Only 28 points on only 50+% shooting?

God he sucks now.
Wade is done amnesty him already. :rolleyes:

SwatTeam
11-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Good game by Wade tonight. As for the OP's question, I think that Wade is clearly option #2 now in the Heat's offense but I think Bosh is option 2b. I really think it comes down to who has the hot hand. Lebron is going to bring it every night, he just needs one of those guys to go off with him as well. There will be games where Wade looks sluggish just like Bosh looked sluggish last year and vice versa. Nothing wrong with that honestly. There is now a clear pecking order. Lebron eats first and he will share generously with everyone else. Besides, Lebron is going to pass the ball to anyone that's open anyways so its not a big deal.

Andrew32
11-22-2012, 12:01 AM
There is now a clear pecking order. Lebron eats first and he will share generously with everyone else.

Not sure if I would agree with that.
When Wade is healthy he also brings the ball up the court like Bron does and he initiates the offense plenty.

I'd say its more of a Co-Anchored offense between Bron and Wade even though Bron is clearly the better player.

Gibby
11-22-2012, 12:02 AM
Bosh gets doesn't get the respect he deserves. Bosh is more valuable over the course of a full season but wade is still the second best player. I think Bosh complements Lebron better than Wade. It will be interesting to see what Miami do with Wade in a couple of years when Bosh is clearly the better player.

SwatTeam
11-22-2012, 12:19 AM
Not sure if I would agree with that.
When Wade is healthy he also brings the ball up the court like Bron does and he initiates the offense plenty.

I'd say its more of a Co-Anchored offense between Bron and Wade even though Bron is clearly the better player.

No doubt, I never said that Wade's role is diminished in the offense. Its there for the taking if he wants it. But if you watch some possessions he likes to just sit in the passenger seat and let LBJ run the show. Especially near the end of games. He lets Lebron facilitate more when the games are closer. I think Wade knows that Lebron sometimes needs to be Lebron and I think Wade is ok with being option 2. Problem is, will taking a backseat make him more complacent?

He said in the offseason he would work on his jumpshot, hire a shooting coach, redefine his game, etc. etc. So far I haven't seen much and he's just getting some nicks and bruises that is slowing him down. I think he will be alright but I think Spo needs to limit his minutes and cryogenically freeze his @$$ for the playoffs when they need him so he doesn't injure himself doing something stupid.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 12:21 AM
Thats more like it, but Bosh was solid tonight too.

beasted86
11-22-2012, 12:28 AM
Bosh has been excellent on offense. Very decisive when he gets the ball, no more pausing and thinking about what move he's going to make just so he can turn the ball over. Either attacks the basket off the dribble, pulls up for the J, or moves the ball to find the open man. But rebound wise he is still too inconsistent, and I still don't think he is ready to take on the prominent leadership role from Wade.

ugafan
11-22-2012, 12:32 AM
I only read the first page but if you think it's Wade's team, you're an idiot.

That's all I have to say.

Chronz
11-22-2012, 01:02 AM
So you think the only things he can do to score is to attack the rim off the dribble or shoot 3pointers...? C'mon bro.
Wade has a sick post game and numerous patented moves that aren't based on athleticism that he can use to get off high percentage shots from the mid-range area and around the basket/post area.
Im saying the primary source of value comes from his ability to get into the heart of the defense. Hes strong in transition and hes an ELITE PnR player because of said slashing ability.

Hes a pretty good post player I agree, but hes not reliant on it the way he is on those other aspects but I suppose he could transition to more of a low block player, I just wonder how good of a passer is he down there vs on the drive.


Also his ball handling ability and balance are so good that he should still have no issue getting to the basket off the dribble even with less athletic ability.

Yea hes always been crafty down there.


I think he is just naturally gifted in terms of court vision and passing ability.

He is, but the less effective he becomes individually, the less attention hes going to draw. Thus his opportunities as a playmaker would be limited, however significant that is depends on how he adjusts. But make no mistake, playmaking and vision/passing arent the same thing. You can have **** court vision but be a decent playmaker and vice versa. Wade combines both traits but he isnt a master passer in the form of a Steve Nash or CP3, so a loss in drive and kick abilty would hinder his playmaking more significantly than a guy like Nash/CP3. Heres hoping for the best though

SportsFanatic10
11-22-2012, 01:02 AM
wade will finish the season averaging around 22-24 pts, 4-5 rebs, and 4-5 assists on 50% shooting. people love to jump on him early, the season just started lol and he's been banged up. bosh is still the 3rd option, but he is very valuable as the only big out of the big 3.

3ballbomber
11-22-2012, 08:35 AM
First off Wade shows up in the playoffs. Without him Miami don't repeat. Bosh is solid and consistent but will never surpass Wade in a Heat uniform.

2ndly, cats saying this is still Wade's team, NO! IT's Lebrons team now. Wade handed him that on a silver platter.......sacrificing his role in order to gain Lebron some confidence is not too far fetched.

& lastly although i think Wade still has it in him he just doesnt seems as sharp, motivated and hungry as i've seen him in the past. Having Lebron & Bosh has him relaxed and chill in a bad way. Wade is still very capable of leading his own team and i just think mentally he is slacking knowing he has 2 prime scorers next to him. Wade is wasting himself. Seems he goes 80% of his true capabalities.

It's a shame