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View Full Version : Fact or fiction: Tracy McGrady should still be an elite player



NYSpirit1
11-20-2012, 09:10 PM
You look at Kobe Bryant, who at 34, readjusted his play to be a more ground game, from his high flying days.

Tracy McGrady, 33, is out of the league. He was arguably just as good as Kobe in the early 2000s. You rewrite the 2000 offseason and put Duncan on the Magic, they would be in the Finals with the Lakers every year. But Tracy never had the work ethic to put in practice time and learn how to age, despite his injuries.

The question is, if he learned to age like Kobe did, would he still be an elite SG?

Chronz
11-20-2012, 09:21 PM
lol Tmacs injuries make Kobe look completely healthy in comparison. There is only so much you can adapt, that Tmac actually lasted as long as he did was pretty impressive. At least he lasted longer than his Doc told him he would.

If Tmac still had a decent first step like Kobe does he would still be an All-Star. Hell if he could at least get back to that low dribble stance before the back spasms, he would still be a force. Have you seen Kobe play through back spasms? Its not pretty, he dribbles really high and seems stiff off the ball.

Tmac worked on his game, it may have been more athletic based than Kobe's but that doesnt mean he didnt have the work ethic or the skill to last.

Kashmir13579
11-20-2012, 09:23 PM
stupid thread

MetroMan
11-20-2012, 09:24 PM
His done. Get over it

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-20-2012, 09:26 PM
Fact or Fiction: NYSpirit1 makes dumbass threads.

ManRam
11-20-2012, 09:28 PM
T-Mac took such a beating in his career. That's why I love him so much; he was out there every night, even on some awful Magic teams, giving his all.

I'm not really sure what this thread means. "Should" he be? This isn't a terribly good thread.

JeffG20
11-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Fact or Fiction: NYSpirit1 makes dumbass threads.

i think we all know the answer lol

NYSpirit1
11-20-2012, 09:47 PM
I love the criticism for this thread, when 'should', clearly means if he had the work ethic, would he still be good.

It's not a means for baiting.

It's a simple question. Tracy McGrady was known not to work as hard as other players. His coaches criticized his work ethic and even has been quoted before as saying he didn't practice hard at times because of his physical gifts.

And 33 isn't that terribly old. Garnett, Duncan, Nash, Pierce and Kobe are all still All-Star caliber at even later ages.

LAKobeBryant
11-20-2012, 09:52 PM
Long story short another "if" thread

kbtwofour
11-20-2012, 09:57 PM
Tracy lacked the work ethic, determination, and drive to be a great player. Kobe is just at another level when it comes to his peers. The only other player from his draft class still playing in the league and playing at a high level is Nash.

What did T-Mac add to his game every off-season like Kobe did?

Chronz
11-20-2012, 10:03 PM
It's a simple question. Tracy McGrady was known not to work as hard as other players. His coaches criticized his work ethic and even has been quoted before as saying he didn't practice hard at times because of his physical gifts.
He didn't have Kobe's work ethic, that doesn't mean he didnt have good work ethic. Hes been praised by other players as well, he and Udonis had the same trainer and both gave him a ringing endorsement IIRC. Because of his back, his offseason workout regimen is more complicated than most.

PS You know who else hated practice? Bill Russell, you know, the greatest winner in this sport.


If you were to ask Tmac, Im sure he would honestly rather have Kobes health than his work ethic.


And 33 isn't that terribly old.
With his injuries and coming into the NBA early make him really old.


Garnett, Duncan, Nash, Pierce and Kobe are all still All-Star caliber at even later ages.
Nash didn't get any run early in his career, Garnett and Duncan are still 7ft tall. Pierce has a game that ages well but Id love to see all the players you mentioned after suffering from back/knee problems as bad as Tmac has had. Hell Id settle to see those guys suffering from just 1 one of those problems.

We saw how much KG declined after a less serious knee injury, imagine him going through MF and having back problems he has to account for.


Your criticism is deserved, this is not an apples to apples comparison here. At first I felt bad for my combative post but it seems your reputation is well deserved.

Chronz
11-20-2012, 10:08 PM
Tracy lacked the work ethic, determination, and drive to be a great player. Kobe is just at another level when it comes to his peers. The only other player from his draft class still playing in the league and playing at a high level is Nash.

What did T-Mac add to his game every off-season like Kobe did?

This makes no sense, if Kobe is on another level then why would Tmac need his work ethic to be a great player if there have been plenty of great players without Kobes work ethic?

Since you know so much about Kobe/Tmac, why dont you tell us what both added every year and what they did during the offseason?

sep11ie
11-20-2012, 10:09 PM
It must be nice to see the tail end of someone's playing days and judge how their entire career should've, could've would've gone.

Chronz
11-20-2012, 10:17 PM
Someone should make this thread asking if Grant Hill should have been an All-Star after his injuries, in spite of his injuries.

Teeboy1487
11-20-2012, 10:21 PM
It's such a shame he had so many injuries. Tmac was an immensely talented player. I always enjoyed watching him. I loved when he and Kobe would compete against each other. I honestly wish he was a Laker right now. He is still far better than any backup SF on our team. I wish him the best success overseas.

SportsFanatic10
11-20-2012, 10:27 PM
Fact or Fiction: NYSpirit1 makes dumbass threads.

this thread is pretty ridiculous but you've had some gems yourself.

nacdaddy
11-20-2012, 10:32 PM
Someone should make this thread asking if Grant Hill should have been an All-Star after his injuries, in spite of his injuries.

grant hill still has a job in the nba. granted their injuries are different but both pretty severe. i blame work ethic. i like the quote where you had haslem and his trainer endorsing him. what were they suppose to say? his work ethic was bad and he had a prima donna attitude, granted he had a right to it(he was that good), that never wanted to be the best. injuries doomed him but not without dooming himself along with them.

i know you can go all day about t-slack but from a rockets fan that has seen way too many games of him not caring and slacking, i could care less for the legacy he leaves and i really dont want to respond to anything else regarding the former rocket.

mit analytics conference of morey and van gundy talking about mcgradys "work" ethic. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/blogs/nba-point-forward/2011/03/04/van-gundy-morey-rail-against-mcgrady/)

Ezio
11-20-2012, 10:32 PM
I thought this was started by JB.

3RDASYSTEM
11-20-2012, 10:45 PM
TMAC had sick game, he played thru injuries that nobody outside of AI would have played with

he was in same situation like KG/AI were in PHI/MINNY rosterwise, he had MILLER as his sidekick and GARRITY, thats a tad bit better than MCKIE/SNOW, but still pretty avg tandem when talking about competing for titles

injuries derailed a potential annual powerhouse in TX with that YAO/TMAC combo...as previously in ORL

he had it all from day1, he was like a MAGIC(6'8 PG) but was more athletic and could outshoot him so he was downright lethal,couldnt pass as good as MAGIC but was damn damn good at it

TOR need to be slapped for not running him and CARTER together in early yrs, thats basically TMAC/G.HILL

when TMAC missed that dunk and got clowned for it, i gave him props for even attempting to be out there balling on such a horrid injury, career ending type...tru bball trooper

Chronz
11-20-2012, 11:08 PM
grant hill still has a job in the nba. granted their injuries are different but both pretty severe.
I didnt say make a thread saying he should still be in the NBA.



i blame work ethic.
Yea but you know so little about his work ethic so why would it matter?


i like the quote where you had haslem and his trainer endorsing him. what were they suppose to say?
True. Im just saying, NBA players that have worked out with him have praised him in the past, like those in Grover's Athletics department.



his work ethic was bad and he had a prima donna attitude, granted he had a right to it(he was that good), that never wanted to be the best. injuries doomed him but not without dooming himself along with them.

Can you prove that he had bad work ethic?


i know you can go all day about t-slack but from a rockets fan that has seen way too many games of him not caring and slacking, i could care less for the legacy he leaves and i really dont want to respond to anything else regarding the former rocket.
Ive seen every game Tmac has played since he became a star so forgive me if I dont boil down his career to just his days as a Rocket. He put his body on the line for moribund franchises, he has carried absolute trash to the playoffs and shouldering massive loads in the process. Hell even in Houston (before Morey) they had trouble winning without him. So yea, I couldnt care less for your opinion because if your anything like most Rox fans, you will point to a few instances, ignoring the vast majority of his career.



mit analytics conference of morey and van gundy talking about mcgradys "work" ethic. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/blogs/nba-point-forward/2011/03/04/van-gundy-morey-rail-against-mcgrady/)
Tmac admits he didn't practice as hard as he shouldve, particularly as he got older but thats not the same as having bad work ethic. If it were then lots of players have bad work ethic, including Bill Russell/Shane Battier. And to be perfectly open, with Tmac's condition, I cant imagine going full bore in practice being a good thing for his body.

I love JVG and he usually shows Tmac alot of respect, but when he says he has a perfect body, thats when you know he doesn't have much understanding of Tmac's degenerative disc and the effort he put in the off-season to retain core flexibility.

And since when did having high basketball IQ and handles on a string become something innate? Tmac worked hard on honing his skills. You dont get as good as he got without putting in work.

$GangGr33n$
11-20-2012, 11:36 PM
TMac is the Griffey Jr of the NBA IMO

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-20-2012, 11:40 PM
this thread is pretty ridiculous but you've had some gems yourself.

Buddy, I am a gem...says my mother.

phoenix_bladen
11-20-2012, 11:57 PM
TMAC had sick game, he played thru injuries that nobody outside of AI would have played with

he was in same situation like KG/AI were in PHI/MINNY rosterwise, he had MILLER as his sidekick and GARRITY, thats a tad bit better than MCKIE/SNOW, but still pretty avg tandem when talking about competing for titles

injuries derailed a potential annual powerhouse in TX with that YAO/TMAC combo...as previously in ORL

he had it all from day1, he was like a MAGIC(6'8 PG) but was more athletic and could outshoot him so he was downright lethal,couldnt pass as good as MAGIC but was damn damn good at it

TOR need to be slapped for not running him and CARTER together in early yrs, thats basically TMAC/G.HILL

when TMAC missed that dunk and got clowned for it, i gave him props for even attempting to be out there balling on such a horrid injury, career ending type...tru bball trooper

You're an idiot ... Tmac left Toronto even though they begged him to stay

Even tmac regrets it now

sep11ie
11-21-2012, 11:22 AM
Buddy, I am a gem...says my mother.

You should hear what she calls me.

JordansBulls
11-22-2012, 06:15 PM
I thought this was started by JB.

No you didn't.:)

JNA17
11-22-2012, 06:51 PM
TMac is the Griffey Jr of the NBA IMO

Yeah no. The closet player to that kind of caliber is either Vince Carter or Grant Hill.

RLundi
11-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Tracy lacked the work ethic, determination, and drive to be a great player. Kobe is just at another level when it comes to his peers. The only other player from his draft class still playing in the league and playing at a high level is Nash.

What did T-Mac add to his game every off-season like Kobe did?

Just terrible.

JasonJohnHorn
11-22-2012, 08:46 PM
Chronz is tearing this up.... not even sure if I should bother leaving a comment... lol.


Honeslty, T-Mac had a pretty good game. I don't remember seeing him post up a lot, but I might be mistaken about that. that is really the only difference in their games. T-Mac was also able to play the point, but it's just his injuries hurt his play.

That said, I'm surprised nobody gave him a roster spot this season. I would have. He was coming cheap and he's still hungry.

asandhu23
11-22-2012, 08:55 PM
You look at Kobe Bryant, who at 34, readjusted his play to be a more ground game, from his high flying days.

Tracy McGrady, 33, is out of the league. He was arguably just as good as Kobe in the early 2000s. You rewrite the 2000 offseason and put Duncan on the Magic, they would be in the Finals with the Lakers every year. But Tracy never had the work ethic to put in practice time and learn how to age, despite his injuries.

The question is, if he learned to age like Kobe did, would he still be an elite SG?


how the **** do you morons come up with this conclusion? do you know the man? Are you his psychologist? His doctor?

koreancabbage
11-22-2012, 11:54 PM
he aint kobe.

HouRealCoach
11-23-2012, 12:01 AM
One stayed healthy and the other didn't... Nothing could stop that

ThuglifeJ
11-23-2012, 12:42 AM
i ****in miss Tmac.

and shut up with the work ethic stuff. So annoying. Even if he apparently didn't have "work ethic" get over it. He didn't need it apparently he was the best scorer in the NBA for a little while and one of the best wings of all time when healthy. I mean Lebron doesnt even lift weights and he's a beast. Some athletes just don't need it, some do.

It's pretty clear-cut/obvious what happened. He got some knee injuries. Tried to bounce back but never was the same and had to retire. K. Get it? Nothing to do with his "work ethic"

kblo247
11-23-2012, 01:09 AM
If he took care of his body in the off season or practice he would be. He seemed to be mor known for his work his last couple stops,,as even Jeff has said he wasn't the to hard practice type. Adleman also criticized him for how he handles his rehab with his knees, basically questioning his seriousness in it. It comes down to body more than skills, he still has skills, well rounded skills, but he neglected his body sorts like Shaq but not to the degree of being fat

John Walls Era
11-23-2012, 01:51 AM
He WAS great. But hes fat and out of shape now. Living in China and probably still getting treated like half the god Marbury is.

TornadoOfSouls
11-23-2012, 05:03 AM
He didn't have Kobe's work ethic, that doesn't mean he didnt have good work ethic. Hes been praised by other players as well, he and Udonis had the same trainer and both gave him a ringing endorsement IIRC. Because of his back, his offseason workout regimen is more complicated than most.

PS You know who else hated practice? Bill Russell, you know, the greatest winner in this sport.


If you were to ask Tmac, Im sure he would honestly rather have Kobes health than his work ethic.


With his injuries and coming into the NBA early make him really old.


Nash didn't get any run early in his career, Garnett and Duncan are still 7ft tall. Pierce has a game that ages well but Id love to see all the players you mentioned after suffering from back/knee problems as bad as Tmac has had. Hell Id settle to see those guys suffering from just 1 one of those problems.

We saw how much KG declined after a less serious knee injury, imagine him going through MF and having back problems he has to account for.


Your criticism is deserved, this is not an apples to apples comparison here. At first I felt bad for my combative post but it seems your reputation is well deserved.

Duncan's knee problems are pretty bad(and have been since '09). He's been wearing that knee brace for a while now. Here's a quote from Shaq's recent book:

"I ran into Gregg Popovich in the bathroom in the spring of the 2010–11 season, and I asked how Timmy was doing, and Pop said, “His knee is bone on bone.”

I agree with you on the back injury though. People calling TMac lazy and claiming he had a bad work ethic should try doing ANY type of physical activity with a bad back.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 05:18 AM
If he took care of his body in the off season or practice he would be. He seemed to be mor known for his work his last couple stops,,as even Jeff has said he wasn't the to hard practice type. Adleman also criticized him for how he handles his rehab with his knees, basically questioning his seriousness in it. It comes down to body more than skills, he still has skills, well rounded skills, but he neglected his body sorts like Shaq but not to the degree of being fat

So you think a player that outlasted his docs prognosis DIDN'T try to take care of his body?

Evidence?

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 05:23 AM
T Mac getting a lot of hate, wow. Wasn't his knee injury misdiagnosed in the 1st place while in Houston? Pretty sure he worked damn hard to have the all around game he had.

kblo247
11-23-2012, 05:36 AM
So you think a player that outlasted his docs prognosis DIDN'T try to take care of his body?

Evidence?

I think a guy who got called out for not taking his rehab seriously, may not have taken his back and other injury rehabs seriously. Adleman and him really got into it because of it, and Artest called him out for being lazy.

JayW_1023
11-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Fact

Gram
11-23-2012, 09:47 AM
Tracy McGrady.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 01:35 PM
I think a guy who got called out for not taking his rehab seriously, may not have taken his back and other injury rehabs seriously. Adleman and him really got into it because of it, and Artest called him out for being lazy.
Just as I suspected, no proof at all. If you dont have anything more than insinuations then you shouldn't talk like you watch this guy 24/7. Read my posts for further information. You can dig up good and bad points in his career and in your example, Houstons Docs ****ed up more than Tmac did.

Tmac came back from that injury sooner than he should have, they told him it was something he could play his way into shape with so he did, he would later say that he didn't get a chance to go through his normal off-season routine because the docs cleared him to play and that he was too excited to play with the newly acquired Artest. He basically played on 1 leg all year until he finally got MF. It was such a botched rehab by Houstons medical staff that one of them openly apologized and resigned. That should tell you something.
Besides there was nothing he could do about that injury, it required MF to correct. I dont recall Adelman ever mentioning anything about his rehab, his problems with Tmac were with regard to his lack of communication with an organization he began growing distrust for.


Anyways, unless you have proof that he didn't take the right measures to maintain his back problems you shouldn't just assume someone who outlasted his doc's prognosis and claims to develop most of his off-season time to maintaining core strength/flexibility is simply lazy in every aspect of his life.

Like I mentioned earlier, Tmac is cautious when it comes to his body. In 06 he had a lost season because he overworked his body during the off-season. I think the guy knows his body better than you.

Even your Shaq complaint was off base, that guy wasn't fat ala Eddy Curry or even Melo.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 01:38 PM
Fact
Your most idiotic post ever.

BcEuAbRsS
11-23-2012, 02:02 PM
Tmac and Grant Hill were my favorite players growing up...

dee279
11-23-2012, 02:25 PM
Tmac and Grant Hill were my favorite players growing up...

The most informing post in this whole thread.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-23-2012, 02:41 PM
Who cares, TMac is playing with Qingdao China and never coming back to the NBA. If Chronz still has a hard-on for him, someone tell him to go get Qingdao League Pass. He can watch DJ Mbenga too.


EDIT: May he's not going to China after all. :laugh2: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=781975

Jenceman
11-23-2012, 04:26 PM
Chronz is tearing this up.... not even sure if I should bother leaving a comment... lol.


Honeslty, T-Mac had a pretty good game. I don't remember seeing him post up a lot, but I might be mistaken about that. that is really the only difference in their games. T-Mac was also able to play the point, but it's just his injuries hurt his play.

That said, I'm surprised nobody gave him a roster spot this season. I would have. He was coming cheap and he's still hungry.

I wish the Lakers would have.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 06:08 PM
Who cares, TMac is playing with Qingdao China and never coming back to the NBA. If Chronz still has a hard-on for him, someone tell him to go get Qingdao League Pass. He can watch DJ Mbenga too.


EDIT: May he's not going to China after all. :laugh2: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=781975

lol so your saying this thread was made for me? Man your really riding me lately

Munkeysuit
11-23-2012, 06:15 PM
TMac's injuries were pretty terrible compared to Kobe's so I would'nt go there and compare the 2, but I think if McGrady never got injured? I think he'd definitely be in the league scoring 20 a game.

Chronz
11-23-2012, 06:18 PM
I don't remember seeing him post up a lot, but I might be mistaken about that.
Definitely, Mac had it all in his prime bout the only reason he was able to stay at an All-NBA level after his back problems and declining ballhandling/first step was because he relied extensively on PnR, Post-Ups, and Pindowns. Even in his final few days with Detroit and Orlando, about the only plays they really ran for him were pinchpost/horns types. Hes obviously no where near the player he used to be but Im just saying thats what has degraded the slowest for him. His transition, cutting, and Iso game has suffered the most by far.




That said, I'm surprised nobody gave him a roster spot this season. I would have. He was coming cheap and he's still hungry.
Diva is my guess.