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View Full Version : Why was Doug Collins fired by the Bulls?



JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2012, 11:45 PM
In 1989 the Bulls had an amazing year. The upset the Cavs in the first round and then did the same to the Knicks in the second round, then made it to the conference finals for the first time in franchise history. Their regular season record wasn't that great, but let's be honest, they were only 3 or 4 players deep. They had Jordan (who was prime), Pippen, who was still devloping as a player, and Grant that was still developing as a player, and Cartwright was their forth best player.

I don't think Collins could be expected to do much more than he did that season, and while the change ultimately was a good one, Phil Jackson did not do any better than Collins the following season as the Bulls lost to the Pistons again in the conference finals. Jackson proved he was the right man for the job, but still, I have to wonder what would have happened had Collins been kept on?

Anybdoy know why he got fired that season? Was there something else going on behind the scenes? Was he having problems with the players? I know Jordan liked him a a lot (he did hire him after all when he was in Washington).

Fresno
11-19-2012, 12:43 AM
He wasn't fired.

Collins only had a 2 year deal with a mutual option for a 3rd season, he came back in Year 3 and there wasn't any improvement so he was replaced.

Bulls were notoriously cheap so they turned the job over to his lead assistant.

Bulls_fan90
11-19-2012, 03:08 AM
He wasn't fired.

Collins only had a 2 year deal with a mutual option for a 3rd season, he came back in Year 3 and there wasn't any improvement so he was replaced.

Bulls were notoriously cheap so they turned the job over to his lead assistant.
The majority of what you've said is wrong.

Anyway, the answer is Michael Jordan.

Hellcrooner
11-19-2012, 03:56 AM
Cause "someone" asked for his head.

Nothing that others hadnt done like magic or Kobe.

Hellcrooner
11-19-2012, 04:02 AM
btw they had been to the conference finals twice in the the 70s.

Hawkeye15
11-19-2012, 04:03 AM
MJ happened

Gram
11-19-2012, 09:00 AM
Doug Collins.

DaBUU
11-19-2012, 11:18 AM
MJ wanted Phil

JordansBulls
11-19-2012, 11:55 AM
MJ wanted Phil

Not true at all. Phil hadn't coached a game in the NBA before, why would MJ want him? Not to mention he didn't like the idea of the offense that was to be ran.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-07/sports/sp-3402_1_doug-collins

Hellcrooner
11-19-2012, 12:08 PM
Not true at all. Phil hadn't coached a game in the NBA before, why would MJ want him? Not to mention he didn't like the idea of the offense that was to be ran.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-07/sports/sp-3402_1_doug-collins

Yep, Had nothing to do with Phil, J just wanted collins fired.

Wonder if had something to do with the Oakley for Grant deal , Maybe Collins was the one that suggested it, and Michael was good friends with Charles.

TyrionLannister
11-19-2012, 12:58 PM
Maybe I'm insane, but I honestly think part of it came from the entire country seeing him run around like an idiot, hugging everyone in sight after "The Shot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuCxuq-yn1w (skip to 5:30 and 6:41)

But seriously, what most of the others have already said.

DaBUU
11-19-2012, 01:00 PM
Not true at all. Phil hadn't coached a game in the NBA before, why would MJ want him? Not to mention he didn't like the idea of the offense that was to be ran.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-07/sports/sp-3402_1_doug-collins

You're correct, I do remember it wrong, Phil was Jerry's guy. Mike just wanted Doug gone.

Max Power
11-19-2012, 01:01 PM
Grant and Pippen often complained Collins was too hard on them and management felt he was stunting their growth.

Max Power
11-19-2012, 01:03 PM
Yep, Had nothing to do with Phil, J just wanted collins fired.

Wonder if had something to do with the Oakley for Grant deal , Maybe Collins was the one that suggested it, and Michael was good friends with Charles.

Oakley wasn't traded for Grant.

DaBUU
11-19-2012, 01:05 PM
Yep, Had nothing to do with Phil, J just wanted collins fired.

Wonder if had something to do with the Oakley for Grant deal , Maybe Collins was the one that suggested it, and Michael was good friends with Charles.

Oakley was traded for Cartwright.

Hellcrooner
11-19-2012, 01:15 PM
Oakley was traded for Cartwright.

true , cartwright and picks oging either way, ( perdue to chicago and Strickland to ny).

Ny won that deal.

Anyway, Jordan was upset bout Oakley getting traded anyway.

JasonJohnHorn
11-19-2012, 01:36 PM
There has to be more of a story to this. Doug Collins did well, he had a great relationship with Jordan (Jordan hired him in Washington) and he got to the conference finals, and got further and further into the playoffs each year he was there. And the 89 performance was especially good because there had been offseason moves that were heavily criticized and took time to adjust the roster with.

It just seems like a wierd firing. And in hindsight, Jackson didn't do any better the following season despite having a roster that was better than Collins's roster.

Max Power
11-19-2012, 01:44 PM
Collins `too tough' on Bulls - Krause feud also seen as reason for dismissal
Chicago Sun-Times - July 8, 1989
Author: Lacy J. Banks ; Barry Cronin


Doug Collins said Bulls management told him he was fired as coach because he was too hard on his players, had lost their respect and tried to undermine general manager Jerry Krause, sources close to Collins said Friday.

A Bulls player who asked not to be identified told the Chicago Sun-Times that Collins said Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf and Krause told him he had had been too tough on the players, especially the younger ones, and too emotional during games.

"They also said he had lost the respect of the players, which is not true," the player said.

Collins was fired Thursday after three seasons as coach.

"When you get down to it, based on what Collins told me, he was fired for a lot of bullfeathers reasons," the player said. "It was garbage, their so-called reasons for firing him.

"And, anyway, the bottom line in this league ought to be winning basketball games. We're not here to have a good time and we don't have to like the coach."

Under Collins, the Bulls won three fewer regular season games (47) this season than last, but upset Cleveland and New York in the playoffs and advanced to the NBA's Eastern Conference finals for the first time since the 1974-75 season.

A former member of Bulls management said Collins was dissatisfied with Krause's performance in player personnel, particularly the drafting of No. 1 picks Brad Sellers and Will Perdue, and coveted Krause's job. At times, the source said, Collins went over Krause's head and took basketball matters directly to Reinsdorf, a practice Krause resented.

"Collins wanted a situation where he could have control over player personnel matters along with coaching," the source said. "In other words, he wanted to be coach and general manager."

John Langel, Collins' Philadelphia-based lawyer, said Collins' relationship with Krause began disintegrating six months after Collins was hired in May, 1986.

"His relationship with Krause deteriorated after six months," Langel said. "And once that relationship deteriorates, (any manager) can find reasons to be displeased with someone."

Krause's drafting of Sellers and Perdue further alienated Collins, who did not hold the two in the same esteem as did Krause.

Meanwhile, this year's No. 1 draft pick, 6-11 forward Stacey King of Oklahoma - about whom Collins and Krause had no apparent disagreement - said he was "devastated" at Collins' demise.

"I was devastated because I was looking forward to working with Coach Collins," King said. "But my job is still to come in and play the best ball I can regardless of who the coach is."

As speculation about Collins' ouster continued, the Bulls persisted in terming their motives as "philosophical differences." There was no further explanation from Reinsdorf, Krause or any other member of the Bulls organization Friday.

Collins also maintained an uncharacteristically low profile. He did not schedule a news conference, and relied on vague generalities when cornered by reporters.

"We just felt that it (Collins' departure) was in the interests of both parties," Collins said. "People are going to try to look at it and make something more of it than it really is, but it's not."

Sources said Collins had been advised by other NBA coaches and general managers not to speak out on the matter for fear of alienating other owners.

Langel said Collins has not received any inquiries from other NBA teams. He said the Bulls will honor the final year of Collins' contract, thought to be worth $350,000.

A former television analyst with CBS, Collins is said to have a standing offer to return to the network. Published reports indicated Collins also has received an offer from the Turner Broadcasting System to be an NBA analyst.

JordansBulls
11-19-2012, 01:44 PM
There has to be more of a story to this. Doug Collins did well, he had a great relationship with Jordan (Jordan hired him in Washington) and he got to the conference finals, and got further and further into the playoffs each year he was there. And the 89 performance was especially good because there had been offseason moves that were heavily criticized and took time to adjust the roster with.

It just seems like a wierd firing. And in hindsight, Jackson didn't do any better the following season despite having a roster that was better than Collins's roster.

The other rumor was the way Collins was playing MJ. He was playing him too many minutes. The 2 years Collins was there MJ led the league in mpg.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-08-09/news/8901030320_1_bulls-doug-collins-lucky



As a Bulls season ticket holder at courtside, it was obvious to me that Doug Collins was, at best, a mediocre coach. He was adept at matching the opponents` substitution strategies and an artful motivator of the crowd`s sympathies but did little else positive.

Had Collins continued to lead the Bulls, Michael Jordan would have continued to lead the league in superstar minutes played and Will Perdue in first-rounder minutes rested.

Collins was very lucky to begin a coaching career with a Michael Jordan, and we Bulls fans are lucky to have the rest of Jordan`s career without Doug Collins to abuse it.

JasonJohnHorn
11-19-2012, 01:53 PM
That JB.. those are interesting read.

I found a couple other pieces, another that said that Collins wa splaying Jordan too many minutes, but hey, if I had the roster Collins was given, I'd be playing Jordan a lot of minutes as well... lol. And the person that was complaining about Jordan having too many minutes, also complained that Collins wasn't giving enough minutes to Will Purdue :facepalm: lol

I think Jackson was the better coach in hindsight, but I don't think the Bulls front office had justification for firing Collins based on his performance. He got the most he could have possibly gotten out of that roster. He did, like Mike Brown with LBJ, run too many plays through Jordan, but he also didn't have as many tools as Phil Jackson would have, so his options were really limited.

That said, Collins coached Jordan to some of his best performances, and did the same for Grant Hill. There is something to be said of a coach who can get the most out of players like those guys.

Ultimatley, it sounds like it was more about Collins's relationship witl Krause than anything, and Krause, I think, is overrated as a GM. I think he's proved that over the years.