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View Full Version : Now in hindsight -- Who won the Carmelo Anthony trade? Nuggets or Knicks



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VinceCarter
11-17-2012, 01:27 AM
Even trade.

IBleedPurple
11-17-2012, 04:11 AM
Skewed by a hot start by NY, and a slow start by DEN (especially Gallo/injured Will).

Until either team goes several seasons getting deep into the playoffs in a row, or gets a ring....will probably be a wash.

We already know how these players are, and they will return to form at some point in the season. Denny Green would be screaming "they are who we thought they were"

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 04:12 AM
People who voted for the Knicks are what I like to call, literally ********.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-17-2012, 04:32 AM
Knicks are 6-0 so they won it.

haha foolish nazi:rolleyes:

Since knicks have started 6-1 this season, it automatically wins the trade for them?? dont think so

Look how mediocre they have been with Melo.

I'll dig up this thread after both teams have played at least 20 games this season:laugh2:

Ebbs
11-17-2012, 04:40 AM
Same thing I said the day the deal happened.

"Knicks over paid, but in basketball you always want the best player in the deal."

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 04:46 AM
Same thing I said the day the deal happened.

"Knicks over paid, but in basketball you always want the best player in the deal."

You can't win a championship with a volume shooter who doesn't play defense.

bigbeardaboss
11-17-2012, 07:26 AM
You can't win a championship with a volume shooter who doesn't play defense.

I guess its great then that Melo has bought in to Coach Woodson's defensive mindset:clap::clap::clap:

NEXT...

Daze9900
11-17-2012, 08:34 AM
Wow way to be living in the moment Knicks fans who care? Both teams got better for the immediate time being did you forget the run the nuggets had in the playoffs last year? We lost first rounders for the umpteenth time while nuggets stockpiling them nuggets ftw in the long run and we are good with the team we have now win win

JordansBulls
11-17-2012, 09:33 AM
So you do care?

:)

phoenix_bladen
11-17-2012, 12:51 PM
Like others say I think the Knicks won the trade because billups getting amnestied became chandler, Lin, and baron davis, jr smith. I don't know what else that trickles down to but I'm assuming it would also mean the Knicks wouldn't have much cap space this summer to sign Danny, Wallace, Kidd AND resign felton! Had they need to give extensions to wilson chandler and gallo.

When the trade was happening everyone assumed that gallo and Wilson chandler would take the next level and play like all stars. Well this hasn't happened and it looks like gallo wasn't the player many thought he could be and will chandler isn't even used now, Anthony Randolph sucks, eddy curry sucks, mostly sucks and they didn't even lose Felton cause they resigned him.


Minus melo on the Knicks they'd be a lottery team but minus gallo and the nuggets probably can still stay competitive so Knicks win by far!

alexander_37
11-17-2012, 01:55 PM
As for the whole Lin is an average defender, here are some stats from last nights game.


Lillard vs Lin: 3-9, 0 assists
Lillard vs Douglas: 6-9, 5 assists

Some statistics
Points Per Possession Allowed
Jeremy Lin – 0.71 (50th in the NBA of ALL positions, 5th for PG)
Toney Douglas – 0.87 (151st in the NBA of ALL positions)

ClearSoulForce
11-17-2012, 01:58 PM
NBA is about winning right? Knicks fans blow everything out of proportion over the 6-0 start so why wouldn't the answer be Nuggets since they have a better record since the trade?

JordansBulls
11-17-2012, 03:12 PM
Same thing I said the day the deal happened.

"Knicks over paid, but in basketball you always want the best player in the deal."

:clap:

Ebbs
11-17-2012, 03:57 PM
You can't win a championship with a volume shooter who doesn't play defense.

You also can't win with an assembly of secondary players of you don't have a #1 option.

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 04:05 PM
You also can't win with an assembly of secondary players of you don't have a #1 option.

Iggy is a number one option, actually. And he's a damned good one.

Ebbs
11-17-2012, 04:07 PM
Iggy is a number one option, actually. And he's a damned good one.

Is he? How successful have Iggy led teams been?

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 04:09 PM
Is he? How successful have Iggy led teams been?
Iggy plays better defense, rebounds better, and shoots at a higher efficiency. All while shooting higher percentage in the clutch. What is Carmelo better at, exactly?

Chronz
11-17-2012, 04:12 PM
As for the whole Lin is an average defender, here are some stats from last nights game.


Lillard vs Lin: 3-9, 0 assists
Lillard vs Douglas: 6-9, 5 assists

Some statistics
Points Per Possession Allowed
Jeremy Lin 0.71 (50th in the NBA of ALL positions, 5th for PG)
Toney Douglas 0.87 (151st in the NBA of ALL positions)

Yea his defense has been on point IMO

Ebbs
11-17-2012, 05:08 PM
Iggy plays better defense, rebounds better, and shoots at a higher efficiency. All while shooting higher percentage in the clutch. What is Carmelo better at, exactly?

Umm Carmelo is 10x the scorer Iggy is. Get off it lol. Iggy is barely a better rebounder if he is at all. And volume needs to be accounted for, don't discount a volume scorer due to lesser efficiency. A guy like Monta Ellis's or Melo's ability to carry an offense can't be quantified fairly through shooting efficiency.

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 05:36 PM
Umm Carmelo is 10x the scorer Iggy is. Get off it lol. Iggy is barely a better rebounder if he is at all. And volume needs to be accounted for, don't discount a volume scorer due to lesser efficiency. A guy like Monta Ellis's or Melo's ability to carry an offense can't be quantified fairly through shooting efficiency.


Iggy is an all-around better player and when it comes down to the clutch Carmelo is still worse.

Monta Ellis is shooting 39 percent. Jesus christ. And he is the fifth worst defender in the league. Horrible example.

So much of this is so ****ing wrong and stupid I'm surprised you didn't reread it and pull it down from embarrassment.

Ebbs
11-17-2012, 05:43 PM
Iggy is an all-around better player and when it comes down to the clutch Carmelo is still worse.

Monta Ellis is shooting 39 percent. Jesus christ. And he is the fifth worst defender in the league. Horrible example.

So much of this is so ****ing wrong and stupid I'm surprised you didn't reread it and pull it down from embarrassment.

As smart as you think you are reading a chart and saying iggy has better advanced numbers; it does not mean he is better. It also doesn't mean you have a clue what those stats mean.

I'm not embarassed. Iggy is a player I truly enjoy but Iggy is not on Melo's level.

If you did a poll of GM's on who was the better player it would be a landslide for Melo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=anthoca01&y1=2013&p2=iguodan01&y2=2013

Clearly you are not backing down and I feel no need to waste my time on this conversation anymore.

theheatles
11-17-2012, 05:47 PM
They both improved because of it.

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 05:47 PM
As smart as you think you are reading a chart and saying iggy has better advanced numbers; it does not mean he is better. It also doesn't mean you have a clue what those stats mean.

I'm not embarassed. Iggy is a player I truly enjoy but Iggy is not on Melo's level.

If you did a poll of GM's on who was the better player it would be a landslide for Melo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=anthoca01&y1=2013&p2=iguodan01&y2=2013

Clearly you are not backing down and I feel no need to waste my time on this conversation anymore.

It's not my fault you have a stupid opinion and can't back it up with anything other than "nah, he's better cause, and these guys would probably think this, but i dunno, its the argument from authority so it works even hypothetically lolcause"

Ebbs
11-17-2012, 05:48 PM
It's not my fault you have a stupid opinion and can't back it up with anything other than "nah, he's better cause, and these guys would probably think this, but i dunno, its the argument from authority so it works even hypothetically lolcause"

You're being ignorant. You can't justify anything. You are the minority. Melo is a better player than Iggy that's it, it really is that simple.

Guppyfighter
11-17-2012, 05:51 PM
You're being ignorant. You can't justify anything. You are the minority. Melo is a better player than Iggy that's it, it really is that simple.

On what metric are you basing this? Other than the Ad populum fallacy right now?

3iverson3
11-18-2012, 09:53 PM
people are just going to vote for the knicks because of their better start. I would just like to say that the knicks would not have that great of a start if they had nuggs tough schedule. 17 of their first 24 games on the road and we are still getting used to the lineups. Tough games are just starting....

3iverson3
11-18-2012, 10:00 PM
Knicks. No homer. Depth is easier to replace than a star.

depth, however, can land you a star....

Knicks:
-got felton back
-rid of billups but that paved the way for Chandler right?
-not really sure what else they recieved from this trade inderectly
-Melo was the big piece

Nuggs:
-got miller
-jham
-brewer
-Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov were the big pieces

I love both teams but I think that the nuggs won.

NYsFinest
11-18-2012, 10:20 PM
Knicks by a LONG SHOT... not sure how this can even be a debate.

They got Felton back, used Billup's contract to get Tyson. Essentially they gave up Gallo, Chandler and Mozgov for Melo. Chandler and Mozgov barely get to play these days and Gallo never took that step that many expected him to.

WAYNEBO
11-19-2012, 12:08 AM
Knicks by a LONG SHOT... not sure how this can even be a debate.

They got Felton back, used Billup's contract to get Tyson. Essentially they gave up Gallo, Chandler and Mozgov for Melo. Chandler and Mozgov barely get to play these days and Gallo never took that step that many expected him to.

Nuggs got a solid backup PG in Miller, but that still doesn't sweeten it enough for Denver.

This hindsight comparo is not even close, and anybody not a hater or troll can see now that NYK got the better deal. But at least Denver got SOMETHING for a leaving asset. More than can be said about Cleveland and the LBJ saga.

JordansBulls
11-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Melo is just on a different level right now.

nycericanguy
11-19-2012, 01:00 PM
Its a quantity vs quality thing.

DEN got depth from the trade, but really the only above average player they got is Gallo who is injury prone and hasn't really developed like you'd hope, and I guess Miller too. Everyone else they got in the trade has contributed almost nothing.

Not to mention even Gallo has shot only 38% since joining DEN 2 years ago.

lamzoka
11-19-2012, 01:03 PM
KNICKS
1- we got the best player from that trade
2- raymond felton is back with us
3- we were gonna loose wilson chandler in FA that summer anyway
4- billups turn out to be tyson chandler for us

So after its all said and done we basically traded gallo, mozgov, wilson chandler and picks for Melo and Tyson Chandler. (I'll take this deal anyday)

NYY 26 to 7
11-19-2012, 01:14 PM
How is this even a debate? It really isn't close. I love Gallo but he has regressed since going to Denver as has Chandler. Mozgov has barely played and hasn't shown much. Adding those guys didn't even give them much financial flexibility and doesn't anyone see this team really improving that much? I don't like how either side has attributed their teams flexibility for future moves and success. Yes the Knicks amnestied Billups for Chandler but in this hypothetical world it is possible Chandler still could have come (unlikely but possible).

The Nuggets have made many many other decisions and trades none of which have made them markedly better than their immediate post Melo team or their team with Melo (which was one that never missed the playoffs). This flexibility? Chandler and Gallo have quite a bit of money committed to them over the next 3-4 years now combining for 16 mill this year with Mozgov being an expiring 3 mill. Melo makes 20 and if you want to talk about hypothetical trades Melo is much easier to move than Gallo and Chandler whose value has to be taking a significant hit with the way their performance has been heading. I really thought Gallo had a chance to be a stand out play and potential all-star but he seems to continue to take a step back.

Even in the long term and flexibilty (since people want to fall back on that to support the nuggets) the Knicks are operating on all 3 year contracts right now with everyone expiring in 3 years so if this didn't work out they can blow it all up easily too. The Knicks have been extremely flexible adding the likes of JKidd, Camby, Sheed, JR Smith, Novak, and Felton. They have been able to be capped out and add very good depth and veteran players who can still contribute along with a potential 6th man of the year candidate and a very solid starting pg (both of whom obviously came from... Denver).

benzni
11-19-2012, 01:26 PM
Knicks are going to have a good year but I would trust the Nuggets for long term

HOZ THE KNICK
11-19-2012, 01:31 PM
knicks by a mile and i said this when the trade first happen but the nuggets got great role players out the deal so i guess it was better than getting nothing.

Becks2307
11-19-2012, 01:44 PM
Think about it this way. The Knicks now potentially have a chance to contend for the Championship, or at least a Eastern Conference Finals berth. The Nuggets despite their young talent will be nowhere near the Western Conference finals in the foreseeable future.

Knick went from a pretty ok team to a potential contender
Nuggs went from a pretty good team to a a team stuck in the 4-8 range.

nycericanguy
11-19-2012, 01:54 PM
Knicks are going to have a good year but I would trust the Nuggets for long term

I love Gallo, but his development or lack there of has been really disappointing. Other than him, who do you really "trust" long term from the trade more than Melo?

NYJ - NYY
11-19-2012, 03:31 PM
haha this thread is awesome helped me spend 2 hours at work reading people opinions from all over the place... bottom line is who givesss a shietttttttttt lol denver is doing well and same with the knicks... knicks got a superstar and the PG in felton they needed... nuggs got some good pieces too but none super star quality but got alot more quantity in that direct trade... knicks parlayed that trade into getting tyson and felton back... so i believe for me and knicks fans it worked more the knicks

everyone i dont give a **** what u think because not being an ******* but ur opinions dont matter to me... everyone outside of NY probably thinks we lost because of the media and how we act but at the end of the dy, im a new yorker i ride for my team just like i do with the jets and yanks good bad or otherwise ... so haters gon hate all good used to it , thrive on it,

Lets Go Knicks!

JordansBulls
11-19-2012, 06:04 PM
Knicks are going to have a good year but I would trust the Nuggets for long term

Why is this?

Guppyfighter
11-19-2012, 06:23 PM
Why is this?

Because the Knicks management is a joke.

BigBlueCrew
11-19-2012, 06:37 PM
Because the Knicks management is a joke.

So is George Karl...although he talks like he is considered a top coach in this league.

knicksfan42
11-19-2012, 06:45 PM
Because the Knicks management is a joke.

James Dolan is a joke, Glen Grunwald is a demigod.

nycericanguy
11-19-2012, 06:46 PM
Because the Knicks management is a joke.

even if thats true, what does that have to do with the trade?

Guppyfighter
11-19-2012, 06:48 PM
even if thats true, what does that have to do with the trade?

read the read, learn context.

NYKnicks4511
11-19-2012, 06:53 PM
read the read, learn context.

No, he's right. There's literally no relevance between management and this topic. By the way, old management made this trade as this was before Grunwald was GM. And to correct you, Knicks ownership (Dolan) is a joke -- not the team management.

Guppyfighter
11-19-2012, 06:54 PM
No, he's right. There's literally no relevance between management and this topic. By the way, old management made this trade as this was before Grunwald was GM. And to correct you, Knicks ownership (Dolan) is a joke -- not the team management.

It was in reference to someone saying "I trust the nuggets long term" and someone asking "why"
Learn to read.

IBleedPurple
11-19-2012, 08:03 PM
"We got Felton back" is the most offbase comment as to why the Knicks won this trade. It has nothing to do with THIS trade. It is something that happened later.

Same for the Nuggets getting Iggy.

JWO35
11-19-2012, 09:17 PM
Nuggets still.... Potential to do something great is in the Knicks favor, but I doubt they can/will

nickdymez
11-20-2012, 12:10 AM
Nuggets still.... Potential to do something great is in the Knicks favor, but I doubt they can/will

Why is that?

3iverson3
11-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Think about it this way. The Knicks now potentially have a chance to contend for the Championship, or at least a Eastern Conference Finals berth. The Nuggets despite their young talent will be nowhere near the Western Conference finals in the foreseeable future.

Knick went from a pretty ok team to a potential contender
Nuggs went from a pretty good team to a a team stuck in the 4-8 range.

This season is still too early to make out who can be a contender (not saying nuggs/knicks won't go far). Nuggs are in the harder conference but you never know how good this team can be (with Chandler out and rotations still being developed). WCF will be tough but time will be needed for a young squad.

The direction this organization is going is positive. This trade gave NY an all star and Denver quantity. As a nugg fan, I have to agree with the fact that it will be a process whereas NY CAN (they still have a lot to prove) be better now. Not that many teams can trade their starting lineup (Melo, AAA, Nene while getting Faried from draft) while only retaining their pg and still be in the mix for a top spot.

WAYNEBO
11-20-2012, 02:34 PM
"We got Felton back" is the most offbase comment as to why the Knicks won this trade. It has nothing to do with THIS trade. It is something that happened later.

Same for the Nuggets getting Iggy.

How is Felton's current employment NOT a consideration for judging the trade? If he was still on the Nuggs, it may or may not tip in their favor. Knicks gave up lots of assets, but he was a return, so it cancels out, thus diminishing the trade chips sent out for Melo and Billups (Tyson).

JordansBulls
11-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Because the Knicks management is a joke.

What about the Nuggets?

Guppyfighter
11-20-2012, 04:40 PM
What about the Nuggets?

The Nuggets have made the playoffs nine years in a row. They are very well ran.

Ebbs
11-20-2012, 05:27 PM
The Nuggets have made the playoffs nine years in a row. They are very well ran.

Is tha really enough? My mavs have made the playoffs for over a decade totalling far more wins and a fina appearance over that time. However all you can say about it is "well that's nice they've been competitive." If you don't win you don't get remembered.

Guppyfighter
11-20-2012, 05:36 PM
Is tha really enough? My mavs have made the playoffs for over a decade totalling far more wins and a fina appearance over that time. However all you can say about it is "well that's nice they've been competitive." If you don't win you don't get remembered.

That has nothing to do with how well ran they are.

topdog
11-20-2012, 05:45 PM
Once again, this is an arbitrary point for "hindsight." All the picks have not been dealt yet and only now has New York started to have a better record than the Nuggets. Also, getting Felton back does not count any more towards the original deal than saying Melo was going to be a free agent within months and could have walked to New York. You can't have it both ways.

JWO35
11-20-2012, 05:45 PM
Why is that?

In my opinion,I think they don't have what it takes to win a 7 game series vs a healthy Heat or Celtics team... But a lot can change from November-March

phoenix_bladen
12-20-2012, 12:43 AM
What do u guys think now? Or do we need need more time to evaluate ?

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 01:11 AM
What do u guys think now? Or do we need need more time to evaluate ?

Nuggets future outlook looks better than the Knicks future.

This year the Knicks are better. They may suffer regression on three point shots, but they will be a top seed.

Kenny
12-20-2012, 01:17 AM
Nuggets future outlook looks better than the Knicks future.

This year the Knicks are better. They may suffer regression on three point shots, but they will be a top seed.

How the heck does the Nuggets future look bright because of THIS trade?? They got Gallinari whose a nice player. Chandler doesn't even play for them and Mozgov is just another big body.

The Nuggets have a nice future as you would put it because of other moves they made that had little to do with this trade.

And I'll take a team that has 3 years of making a run at a NBA title and then a ton of cap space in a huge market like New york then a team with some nice pieces like the Nuggets who aren't going anywhere because they don't have "that guy".

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 01:29 AM
The Knicks aren't going to win a title. So your point is moot.

redhorse
12-20-2012, 01:31 AM
what is the goal of every franchise in sports. To win it all right? The nuggets may have a better record than the knicks since the trade went down , but the knicks are where they want to be right now a serious contender.. now I AM NOT SAYING THEY WILL WIN IT ALL, but they are closer to a contender than the nuggets. Gallo, chandler, mosgov, felton(now a knick) are nice role players to have for a championship team, but the goal for the knicks is to win a Championship and those players will not do that for u.... u cannot win a championship w/o a superstar...

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 01:32 AM
what is the goal of every franchise in sports. To win it all right? The nuggets may have a better record than the knicks since the trade went down , but the knicks are where they want to be right now a serious contender.. now I AM NOT SAYING THEY WILL WIN IT ALL, but they are closer to a contender than the nuggets. Gallo, chandler, mosgov, felton(now a knick) are nice players to have for a championship team, but the goal for the knicks is to win a Championship and those players will not do that for u.... u cannot win a championship w/o a superstar...

The Knicks won't beat the Heat in their current construction. One of the major reasons they have a better shot at the title is because they are in the East. Easier the path, better shot at a title.

Nuggets would be an easy top four seed in the East and people would think they have a shot at the title.

redhorse
12-20-2012, 01:49 AM
The Knicks won't beat the Heat in their current construction. One of the major reasons they have a better shot at the title is because they are in the East. Easier the path, better shot at a title.

Nuggets would be an easy top four seed in the East and people would think they have a shot at the title.

so u dont think they have a shot at all against the heat? they beat them twice yea u can say the first one was a charity game whatever , but the second one was without carmelo.. and also shump and stat.. it was a legit win cant take that away from them


but they play in the west so it dosent matter...And seriously? U think this nugget team can beat the heat in a 7 game series, but not the knicks?

KniCks4LiFe
12-20-2012, 01:52 AM
too early. Right now we look good in season, last yr. it was Denver and the yr. before that, But look at the Chargers and Giants trade for an example. Who knows what happens in Denver and NY by season's end.

JEDean89
12-20-2012, 02:18 AM
both teams won the trade. the nuggets got most of their team off this trade (even brewer and randolph who were traded to the wolves and knicks in that trade, ended up a nugget), the knicks got a superstar. the nuggs are about to take the league by storm though with this upcoming home stretch. look for them to be 25-15 or so in January.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 02:40 AM
so u dont think they have a shot at all against the heat? they beat them twice yea u can say the first one was a charity game whatever , but the second one was without carmelo.. and also shump and stat.. it was a legit win cant take that away from them


but they play in the west so it dosent matter...And seriously? U think this nugget team can beat the heat in a 7 game series, but not the knicks?

That's not what I said.

I said people like you would be under the illusion like you are with the Knicks they could win a title. The only reason the Knicks have a better shot is that they are in the East.

redhorse
12-20-2012, 03:23 AM
That's not what I said.

I said people like you would be under the illusion like you are with the Knicks they could win a title. The only reason the Knicks have a better shot is that they are in the East.

lol I even put in caps that Im not saying the knicks are going to win the title because I knew ppl Like u will say Im overrating the knicks because thats how u guys think... I do think that they are contenders.. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Is that your only argument? Thats so weak because they are in the east. So what. Is that the knicks fault that they are in the east?..

Its funny because when the knicks had gallo and chandler and mosgov u guys that are defending these players were bashing them before. Now if the nuggets were in the east they can be a top 4 team in the east smh.. ppl say knick fans overrate their players which yes its true , but u guys are doing the same exact thing...

ChickenSouvlaki
12-20-2012, 03:29 AM
Nuggets are still better than the Knicks

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 03:49 AM
lol I even put in caps that Im not saying the knicks are going to win the title because I knew ppl Like u will say Im overrating the knicks because thats how u guys think... I do think that they are contenders.. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Is that your only argument? Thats so weak because they are in the east. So what. Is that the knicks fault that they are in the east?..

Its funny because when the knicks had gallo and chandler and mosgov u guys that are defending these players were bashing them before. Now if the nuggets were in the east they can be a top 4 team in the east smh.. ppl say knick fans overrate their players which yes its true , but u guys are doing the same exact thing...

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Based on differential and strength of schedule the Nuggets would be a fourth seed if you project them through out the season.
'

Nabeshin
12-20-2012, 04:16 AM
Nuggets are still better than the Knicks


And the whopper of the day goes to .....you :clap:

NYYCowboys
12-20-2012, 04:42 AM
That's not what I said.

I said people like you would be under the illusion like you are with the Knicks they could win a title. The only reason the Knicks have a better shot is that they are in the East.

If they keep playing the way they are they could definitely win a championship. I think the fact that you keep using the words "never" and "illusion" show you are just a Knicks hater. You have no facts or stats to back up your argument. Your only argument has been "the east is weak", and "oh they definitely can't beat the Heat," which make you sound like a complete moron.

While I would say OKC and Miami are clearly the favorites right now, there is definitely a chance for the Knicks if they are playing well come playoff time.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 04:58 AM
If they keep playing the way they are they could definitely win a championship. I think the fact that you keep using the words "never" and "illusion" show you are just a Knicks hater. You have no facts or stats to back up your argument. Your only argument has been "the east is weak", and "oh they definitely can't beat the Heat," which make you sound like a complete moron.

While I would say OKC and Miami are clearly the favorites right now, there is definitely a chance for the Knicks if they are playing well come playoff time.

Knicks will not win a championship.

When the rotations shorten the Heat will be even better. Not only that, but the Knicks defensive efficiciency is dropping like a mother****er. Kidd can't stay in front of his man, Melo feigns effort, and Novak gets lost.

Not only that with their defense, but the scheme is a joke. They double team in the post and the first pass is an open man.

Their three point shooting from Smith, Kidd, and Brewer are all above their career averages and their will be regression.

People honestly looking at the Knicks aren't haters and you being a Knicks fan makes that comment even more homerish.

justinnum1
12-20-2012, 08:56 AM
Knicks will not win a championship.

When the rotations shorten the Heat will be even better. Not only that, but the Knicks defensive efficiciency is dropping like a mother****er. Kidd can't stay in front of his man, Melo feigns effort, and Novak gets lost.

Not only that with their defense, but the scheme is a joke. They double team in the post and the first pass is an open man.

Their three point shooting from Smith, Kidd, and Brewer are all above their career averages and their will be regression.

People honestly looking at the Knicks aren't haters and you being a Knicks fan makes that comment even more homerish.

A lot of these knicks fans don't understand that the playoffs are completely different(understandable since they haven't done anything in the playoffs in a long time). When you can gameplan for a series a lot of things change.

Even one of their mods think miami would be lucky to not get swept. :facepalm:

Jesse2272
12-20-2012, 09:19 AM
Knicks will not win a championship.

When the rotations shorten the Heat will be even better. Not only that, but the Knicks defensive efficiciency is dropping like a mother****er. Kidd can't stay in front of his man, Melo feigns effort, and Novak gets lost.

Not only that with their defense, but the scheme is a joke. They double team in the post and the first pass is an open man.

Their three point shooting from Smith, Kidd, and Brewer are all above their career averages and their will be regression.

People honestly looking at the Knicks aren't haters and you being a Knicks fan makes that comment even more homerish.

The heat and Knicks def eff rtg is identical right now tied for 17th

New York 1.021
Miami 1.021

Knickrocketsfan
12-20-2012, 09:21 AM
A lot of these knicks fans don't understand that the playoffs are completely different(understandable since they haven't done anything in the playoffs in a long time). When you can gameplan for a series a lot of things change.

Even one of their mods think miami would be lucky to not get swept. :facepalm:

You are funny. I do not post frequently but you always take the cake in absurd post about the knicks. So because the Knicks have done nothing in the playoffs, their fans now do not understand the difference between a regular season and playoff game? Please stop making these outrageous comment. What give you the right to deem a fan as "not understanding." Lets cam down there. I guess as a Giants fan, I should say that other teams, say the falcons who killed us, do not know what the playoffs mean. My team has won a championship i know best. Note the sarcasm.

sintaks12
12-20-2012, 09:25 AM
A lot of these knicks fans don't understand that the playoffs are completely different(understandable since they haven't done anything in the playoffs in a long time). When you can gameplan for a series a lot of things change.

Even one of their mods think miami would be lucky to not get swept. :facepalm:

Just as a reminder, BOTH teams have the opportunity to "gameplan" and make adjustments throughout a series. The last time I checked, NY has a pretty amazing record under Woodson, so I think he has a fairly capable staff. Newsflash, Spoelstra is not Yoda. I could coach that roster to a title. The Knicks had injuries last year that hindered their playoff chances... not an excuse, just facts. It happens... part of the game. But please don't post trash about the Knicks not standing a chance just because teams can "gameplan" in the playoffs. If healthy, I like the Knicks chances against anyone is a 7 game series... from the players to the coaches.

jimm120
12-20-2012, 09:32 AM
I just want people to understand:

The reason the KNICKS had a bad record wasn't because of the trade, it was because of Dantoni. HORRIBLE COACH.

Second Danotni was gone, we went 18-6 and now 19-6 this year.

nate2usmc
12-20-2012, 09:40 AM
Knicks easily, even forgetting this run.

We got Melo AND Billups for Chandler, Gallo, Mozgov, and Felton.


Look at it this way we traded to inferior players at the SF position for one significantly superior player. Then Felton and Mozgov for Billups. Easy win.


If we are looking at things now. Even more easily the Knicks.

Mozgov is worth nothing, complete trash. Wilson has completely fallen off, ranging from a DNP-15 mpg player. Gallo is having his worst season every as a pro, and in 4 seasons has shown that his peak is a 15 and 5 player.

WTF? I'm a Knicks fan and I even think that DEN won the trade to date. Like mentioned by others, 56-40 in a tougher conference with several YOUNG players that could be used as trade bait or just be developed into a championship contender. Seriously, WC is 3rd string!!

It took two years for the Knicks to finally put together a team they envisioned (sort of since no CP3) after getting Melo and they have yet to win a playoff series. I hope they break that curse this year.

I'll always root for the Knicks but Denver has done a phenomenal (STAT voice) job in putting this team together, setting themselves up for success for the long-term and continue winning hence winning this trade.

koreancabbage
12-20-2012, 09:43 AM
You are funny. I do not post frequently but you always take the cake in absurd post about the knicks. So because the Knicks have done nothing in the playoffs, their fans now do not understand the difference between a regular season and playoff game? Please stop making these outrageous comment. What give you the right to deem a fan as "not understanding." Lets cam down there. I guess as a Giants fan, I should say that other teams, say the falcons who killed us, do not know what the playoffs mean. My team has won a championship i know best. Note the sarcasm.

you have to read all of the Knicks fans comments here regarding playoff basketball before you can really gauge the validity of that statement. Just like how the Knicks fans were saying they could beat the Heat last year in this forum and (and say b/c of this, this, and that, they will win the series, or they match up well against the Heat etc etc etc) like that is a testament of what they really know about playoff basketball (in recent years).

jimm120
12-20-2012, 09:43 AM
WTF? I'm a Knicks fan and I even think that DEN won the trade to date. Like mentioned by others, 56-40 in a tougher conference with several YOUNG players that could be used as trade bait or just be developed into a championship contender. Seriously, WC is 3rd string!!

It took two years for the Knicks to finally put together a team they envisioned (sort of since no CP3) after getting Melo and they have yet to win a playoff series. I hope they break that curse this year.

I'll always root for the Knicks but Denver has done a phenomenal (STAT voice) job in putting this team together, setting themselves up for success for the long-term hence winning this trade.

Again, it didn't take "1 1/2 seasons" to get the Knicks going. It took Dantoni being fired for the KNicks to do well.

Woodson, with the same team Dantoni had last season, went 18-6 (same team Dantoni had gone 18-24 with last season). Plus, Lin and Amare were out during MOST of the Woodson time.

Just imagine what last year's team would have been with Woodson at the helm from the start....I can tell you know that it wouldn't have been 18-24 by the Portland game (first game after Dantoni's firing).

jp611
12-20-2012, 09:47 AM
Win-win for each teams

koreancabbage
12-20-2012, 09:48 AM
Just as a reminder, BOTH teams have the opportunity to "gameplan" and make adjustments throughout a series. The last time I checked, NY has a pretty amazing record under Woodson, so I think he has a fairly capable staff. Newsflash, Spoelstra is not Yoda. I could coach that roster to a title. The Knicks had injuries last year that hindered their playoff chances... not an excuse, just facts. It happens... part of the game. But please don't post trash about the Knicks not standing a chance just because teams can "gameplan" in the playoffs. If healthy, I like the Knicks chances against anyone is a 7 game series... from the players to the coaches.

last time I checked, Woodson has not gotten out of the second round or have a winning record in the playoffs, these are facts. maybe this year?

justinnum1
12-20-2012, 09:52 AM
WTF? I'm a Knicks fan and I even think that DEN won the trade to date. Like mentioned by others, 56-40 in a tougher conference with several YOUNG players that could be used as trade bait or just be developed into a championship contender. Seriously, WC is 3rd string!!

It took two years for the Knicks to finally put together a team they envisioned (sort of since no CP3) after getting Melo and they have yet to win a playoff series. I hope they break that curse this year.

I'll always root for the Knicks but Denver has done a phenomenal (STAT voice) job in putting this team together, setting themselves up for success for the long-term hence winning this trade.

Again, it didn't take "1 1/2 seasons" to get the Knicks going. It took Dantoni being fired for the KNicks to do well.

Woodson, with the same team Dantoni had last season, went 18-6 (same team Dantoni had gone 18-24 with last season). Plus, Lin and Amare were out during MOST of the Woodson time.

Just imagine what last year's team would have been with Woodson at the helm from the start....I can tell you know that it wouldn't have been 18-24 by the Portland game (first game after Dantoni's firing).

They would have still lost to Miami in 5
:laugh:

BklynKnicks3
12-20-2012, 09:54 AM
Carmelo > nuggets easy

koreancabbage
12-20-2012, 09:55 AM
Carmelo > nuggets easy

also another reasoning on how to make Knicks fans look bad.

nycericanguy
12-20-2012, 10:04 AM
3. Fact or Fiction: The Knicks won the trade for Melo in 2011.


Gutierrez: Fact. This is kind of an easy one. It might not have looked like a slam dunk until this season, but Melo is a franchise-altering player and has been playing like one of late. As a bonus, the Knicks got Raymond Felton back, and he's playing like he did the first time around.

Hall: Fact, but trick question. Denver also did well in the trade -- the Nuggets are in nice shape after picking up Danilo Gallinari et al. The Melo trade alone isn't a huge win without the follow-up wins. Those include resisting the urge to cash in on Linsanity, sticking with Mike Woodson and this from July 12, 2012: Signed G Jason Kidd. Re-signed F Steve Novak.

Mason: Fact. Boy, did I get this wrong. I never saw Melo mutating into the unstoppable monster he has become. Meanwhile the players they gave up, most disappointingly Gallinari, haven't progressed as many expected. Pass the crow, please! I'll take mine extra crispy.

Silverman: Fact. I was a fairly outspoken critic of the James Dolan-led bidding frenzy (and it boggles the mind how good the Knicks might be if Melo had waited until free agency to take his talents to Times Square), but I'm pleased as punch to admit I was wrong. There isn't a Knicks fan alive with an operant cerebral cortex who wouldn't redo that deal in a heartbeat.

Wade: Fact. In a sport where only five players are allowed on the court at once, no package of assets headlined by Gallinari is worth more than Carmelo. In the NBA, there is the elite and then there is everyone else. Anthony is not everyone else. On the contrary, there is no one else like him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-121219/nba-brooklyn-nets-vs-new-york-knicks

latinofire21
12-20-2012, 10:05 AM
I think the Knicks won the trade because they got a superstar back. Yes they did give a way a lot of role players which the Nuggets in turn used to facelift their roster but that team regardless of being in the East or West wouldnt make the championship. They will stay competitive but they wont ever get to the championship.

When you get a superstar others want to play with you. He helped bring in quite a few players on this roster to play around him and Amare. I would do that trade over and over even if the first year and a half was horrid.

strahan92osi72
12-20-2012, 10:08 AM
LOL at this even being a debate still.

koreancabbage
12-20-2012, 10:09 AM
I think the Knicks won the trade because they got a superstar back. Yes they did give a way a lot of role players which the Nuggets in turn used to facelift their roster but that team regardless of being in the East or West wouldnt make the championship. They will stay competitive but they wont ever get to the championship.

When you get a superstar others want to play with you. He helped bring in quite a few players on this roster to play around him and Amare. I would do that trade over and over even if the first year and a half was horrid.

same can be said about Melo.

D-Leethal
12-20-2012, 10:11 AM
Is this even a question?

Is anyone the Knicks traded besides Gallo even playing in this league anymore?

Becks2307
12-20-2012, 10:20 AM
LOL so wait...

Denver, who went from a pretty good team to a.....pretty good team, won the trade but the Knicks who went from about a .500 team before melo -AND ZERO Playoff appearances in about a decade to consecutive appearances and elite this early season lost the trade?

Denver were 32-25 when they traded Melo
Knicks were 28-26

Knicks are now 19-6
Denver are now 14-12

Denver were a 6th seed last year but a 4 seed the last time Melo was there, they also made the WCF. They likely wont be higher that 5 this season either.

Knicks went from BOTTOM FEEDER to 6th seed then 7th and now look like a top 3 seed.

Denver has a great young team, but it has more to do with drafting than that trade.

Gallo Mosgov and Chandler is all they got from that trade today. And two of those players hardly ever play.

Knicks improved much more from that trade.

nycericanguy
12-20-2012, 10:21 AM
Is this even a question?

Is anyone the Knicks traded besides Gallo even playing in this league anymore?

Seriously, would you rather pay Gallo/Chandler/Mosgov $19m+ per? or Melo $19m?

And did someone say DEN won the trade because he likes their future better? :confused: WTH does that have to do with the DEN/NY trade?...lol

That's like saying NOLA won the CP3 trade because I like their future better.

strahan92osi72
12-20-2012, 10:32 AM
LOL so wait...

Denver, who went from a pretty good team to a.....pretty good team, won the trade but the Knicks who went from about a .500 team before melo -AND ZERO Playoff appearances in about a decade to consecutive appearances and elite this early season lost the trade?

Denver were 32-25 when they traded Melo
Knicks were 28-26

Knicks are now 19-6
Denver are now 14-12

Denver were a 6th seed last year but a 4 seed the last time Melo was there, they also made the WCF. They likely wont be higher that 5 this season either.

Knicks went from BOTTOM FEEDER to 6th seed then 7th and now look like a top 3 seed.

Denver has a great young team, but it has more to do with drafting than that trade.

Gallo Mosgov and Chandler is all they got from that trade today. And two of those players hardly ever play.

Knicks improved much more from that trade.

At least Masai Ujiri saw the forrest through the trees. Denver had a great start after the trade, but he knew Chandler/Gallinari were no where near the class of player Melo is. He said himself they got killed. He probably knew he would probably eventually have missing pieces from this trade, and the only player who gets burn these days is Gallo, and Melo>>>>>Gallo. I can't believe this is a serious debate still.:facepalm:

CostanzaNumba0
12-20-2012, 10:49 AM
also another reasoning on how to make Knicks fans look bad.

Uhm the knicks are 19-6, they are much better than the nuggets, everyone the nuggets received in that trade have regressed and melo is the mvp, take off the bs hater glasses

ball4reel
12-20-2012, 10:56 AM
Are the Heat still the favorites out the east? Yes they are... But this is not the same heat team from last yr, Wade is not looking that Great. They will need Wade at a superstar level to get out the east.. So is it far fetched to say the Knicks can beat them in 7 games no it is not.Remember the beginning of the yr when everyone said the nets were better, how did that turn out.Lets play half the yr before we just hand the east over to the Heat

D-Leethal
12-20-2012, 10:58 AM
At least Masai Ujiri saw the forrest through the trees. Denver had a great start after the trade, but he knew Chandler/Gallinari were no where near the class of player Melo is. He said himself they got killed. He probably knew he would probably eventually have missing pieces from this trade, and the only player who gets burn these days is Gallo, and Melo>>>>>Gallo. I can't believe this is a serious debate still.:facepalm:

Even last year, the guys carrying that team weren't even part of the trade outside of Gallo.

The reasons people love their future are for players not weren't obtained in the Melo trade except Gallo. Gallo is paid like a big time player now anyway. People love their future because of guys like Lawson, Faried, McGee. Not Chandler and Mozzy.

At this point all they got from us that they are utilizing is Gallo. We got a guy who is top 3 front runner for MVP. There bright future has little to nothing to do with the Melo trade.

And this 'bright future' crap is so overrated. Most of the time the bright future never becomes anything more than a bright future - and that brightness never comes to fruition until they trade their bright future pieces for a big time star.

koreancabbage
12-20-2012, 11:00 AM
Are the Heat still the favorites out the east? Yes they are... But this is not the same heat team from last yr, Wade is not looking that Great. They will need Wade at a superstar level to get out the east.. So is it far fetched to say the Knicks can beat them in 7 games no it is not.Remember the beginning of the yr when everyone said the nets were better, how did that turn out.Lets play half the yr before we just hand the east over to the Heat

well that doesn't make any sense. Brooklyn has been very good when they are clicking. like you said, lets play out the yr before we crown the Knicks regular season champs =P

koreancabbage
12-20-2012, 11:01 AM
repost

ldawg
12-20-2012, 11:07 AM
I now melo was glad to get rid of Dantoni.

D-Leethal
12-20-2012, 11:10 AM
well that doesn't make any sense. Brooklyn has been very good when they are clicking. like you said, lets play out the yr before we crown the Knicks regular season champs =P

No they haven't. They benefitted from their cream puff schedule to start the season. They played Orlando 3x in 10 days earlier this season. Pretty sure they had easiest SOS for the first month.

LongIslandIcedZ
12-20-2012, 11:12 AM
I dont understand how anyone can argue the Knicks lost this trade. With the trickle down affect, the Knicks became arguably an elite team this year.

I also dont understand why anyone had to lose this trade at all. The Knicks got their superstar, and the Nuggets got the best possible return they could for their superstar, that isnt easy.

The Knicks are insanely better than they were, and the Nuggets have some flexibility in the future.

SteBO
12-20-2012, 11:17 AM
Are the Heat still the favorites out the east? Yes they are... But this is not the same heat team from last yr, Wade is not looking that Great. They will need Wade at a superstar level to get out the east.. So is it far fetched to say the Knicks can beat them in 7 games no it is not.Remember the beginning of the yr when everyone said the nets were better, how did that turn out.Lets play half the yr before we just hand the east over to the Heat
Off topic, but you haven't watched Wade or the Heat for that matter if you really believe this. Wade is shooting around 50% from the field and is averaging around 20 ppg. Considering he's coming off knee surgery and has been dealing with other nit-knack injuries, I'd say he's okay for now.

In regards to this thread, it depends on what you're looking at. Denver isn't in a win-now position. The roster they've constructed here is for the future, and they're banking on these guys to get better, which they probably will. Time will tell. The Knicks are in win-now mode, and they needed a star. They got that. Both teams won the trade.

nomorecurry
12-20-2012, 11:30 AM
I am a lifelong Knick fan and to be honest this trade is the best thing to happen to the Knicks since the fixed lottery for Ewing honestly does every Knick fan remember where all the trouble started by not letting the Ewing contract just expire and how much of a joke we have been for a decade there is no question from a Knicks prospective this is a no brainer.The only question I do have is there a Nugget fan that wouldnt rather have a happy mature Carmelo Anthony than what they have now? And I dont mean that in a sarcastic way at all

D-Leethal
12-20-2012, 11:36 AM
I am a lifelong Knick fan and to be honest this trade is the best thing to happen to the Knicks since the fixed lottery for Ewing honestly does every Knick fan remember where all the trouble started by not letting the Ewing contract just expire and how much of a joke we have been for a decade there is no question from a Knicks prospective this is a no brainer.The only question I do have is there a Nugget fan that wouldnt rather have a happy mature Carmelo Anthony than what they have now? And I dont mean that in a sarcastic way at all

Not sure Melo ever reaches this newfound level of maturity on the basketball court in Denver. The NY media scrutiny and pressure will break most athletes, but it did wonders for Melo. That and having a father figure type coach he truly respects. Karl was more of the douchebag grandfather who scolded his grandkids and told them how much better it was in the good old days.

MetsJets0809
12-20-2012, 11:42 AM
not sure melo ever reaches this newfound level of maturity on the basketball court in denver. The ny media scrutiny and pressure will break most athletes, but it did wonders for melo. That and having a father figure type coach he truly respects. karl was more of the douchebag grandfather who scolded his grandkids and told them how much better it was in the good old days.

lol

WAYNEBO
12-20-2012, 05:39 PM
They would have still lost to Miami in 5
:laugh:

Perhaps, but not this year troll. Your 6th period study hall doesn't allow smartphones... get back to work.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 06:08 PM
Seriously, would you rather pay Gallo/Chandler/Mosgov $19m+ per? or Melo $19m?

And did someone say DEN won the trade because he likes their future better? :confused: WTH does that have to do with the DEN/NY trade?...lol

That's like saying NOLA won the CP3 trade because I like their future better.

Because paying Melo 19 million dollars a year affects the future.

Crazy concept.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 06:09 PM
The heat and Knicks def eff rtg is identical right now tied for 17th

New York 1.021
Miami 1.021

The Heat's defense is from over helping and being too aggressive. That will probably be fixed by the end of the year. Given last year.

Knicks defense is rapidly falling and it started off as a top five defense in the first month of the season. It will likely keep dropping based on those other months.

quade36
12-20-2012, 06:12 PM
Knicks definitely benefitted more from the trade and it's not even close.

Its pretty close if you look at the Nuggets not missing Anthony and all the money they can spend elsewhere. Anthony didn't make the Knicks a better team. If anything the key person was Tyson Chandler and he had absolutely nothing to do with the trade.

PurpleJesus
12-20-2012, 06:19 PM
I dont really think it is hindsight yet. The first year and half, it seemed pretty clear that Denver won the trade, now the first 1/4 of this year, it seems the Knicks may have won. I think we need more history to be able to judge.

WAYNEBO
12-20-2012, 06:20 PM
Its pretty close if you look at the Nuggets not missing Anthony and all the money they can spend elsewhere. Anthony didn't make the Knicks a better team. If anything the key person was Tyson Chandler and he had absolutely nothing to do with the trade.

Hmmm.. really? Melo's MVP-caliber play is not a difference maker.. LOL.

Tyson had nothing to do with the trade? NYK signed him because of having an exception hole in the cap from amnestying Billups, who was part of that trade.

Nice try though... You'll have more luck in forums on bellydancing or synchronized swimming.

D-Leethal
12-20-2012, 06:23 PM
Its pretty close if you look at the Nuggets not missing Anthony and all the money they can spend elsewhere. Anthony didn't make the Knicks a better team. If anything the key person was Tyson Chandler and he had absolutely nothing to do with the trade.

You really think it matters more that our record didn't get any better right away after we gutted a good chunk of our team than the fact that we have a team that looks like it could contend with Melo as the centerpiece and MVP?

The team we have now is lightyears better than anything we could have built around Gallo.

And Denver is paying Gallo, Chandler and Mozzy Melo's salary. So your point about spending money elsewhere is pretty shot.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 06:23 PM
Hmmm.. really? Melo's MVP-caliber play is not a difference maker.. LOL.

Tyson had nothing to do with the trade? NYK signed him because of having an exception hole in the cap from amnestying Billups, who was part of that trade.

Nice try though... You'll have more luck in forums on bellydancing or synchronized swimming.

Yeah, I was impressed by the way they amnestied Billups after picking up his option. I wonder what that could be used for now...

WAYNEBO
12-20-2012, 06:31 PM
Yeah, I'm impressed by your armchair QB sarcasm. Easy to predicted the past when making decisions now. OH... too deep for you.

Let me break it down for you:

Did they know STAT would be breaking down like this at the time? NO.
Was Billups a forced piece of the Melo trade to make things fit? Yes.
When NYK picked up Chauncey's option, was there even a remote chance the defending Champs would not return the pillar of their defense? NO.
Would they have liked to amnesty STAT over Billups now? Probably not, considering Billups also can't stay healthy and is now a bench player at best so I guess even steven.

You also get a C for effort.

nycericanguy
12-20-2012, 06:32 PM
Because paying Melo 19 million dollars a year affects the future.

Crazy concept.

It is, and I'm not sure you understand the CAP, because DEN is over the cap regardless.

Question remains, would you rather use that $19m on Gallo/Chandler & Mozzy or on Melo?

As much as I may like Gallo, that's a pretty easy one.

knicksfan42
12-20-2012, 06:36 PM
You really think it matters more that our record didn't get any better right away after we gutted a good chunk of our team than the fact that we have a team that looks like it could contend with Melo as the centerpiece and MVP?

The team we have now is lightyears better than anything we could have built around Gallo.

And Denver is paying Gallo, Chandler and Mozzy Melo's salary. So your point about spending money elsewhere is pretty shot.

Yep, Denver is currently over the cap. They are over the cap next season too. If they use their team options on their rookies (which they likely will) they'll have like 5 million to use 2 offseasons from this upcoming offseason.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 06:43 PM
All, which are very moveable contracts.

Guppyfighter
12-20-2012, 06:47 PM
Yeah, I'm impressed by your armchair QB sarcasm. Easy to predicted the past when making decisions now. OH... too deep for you.

Let me break it down for you:

Did they know STAT would be breaking down like this at the time? NO.
Was Billups a forced piece of the Melo trade to make things fit? Yes.
When NYK picked up Chauncey's option, was there even a remote chance the defending Champs would not return the pillar of their defense? NO.
Would they have liked to amnesty STAT over Billups now? Probably not, considering Billups also can't stay healthy and is now a bench player at best so I guess even steven.

You also get a C for effort.

Man, that's hilarious. You are literally defending this. Yes, Amare relied on athleticism, decline was a distinct possibility.

They did not need to pick up the option. Billups contract would be up by now with the Knicks and they could have used the amnesty later on Amare. And if they felt Billups was an injury risk and would be reduced to a bench player, why would they pick up the option?

No, it's not even steven. Stop being a homer.

Hired Guns
12-20-2012, 06:50 PM
We received - Melo, Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter, Renaldo Balkman, Shelden Williams

We gave up - Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Corey Brewer.

Since Melo trade - Chandler, Felton, Kidd, Novak, Brewer, Shump, J.R Smith

And people have the nerve to say no one knows yet....

Remember people Ill Will, Galo, & Curry were due new contracts...

D-Leethal
12-20-2012, 06:55 PM
All, which are very moveable contracts.

Chandler doesn't even play and has had some really bad injuries woes since leaving NY. He's not exactly moveable.

And I don't know many if any Knicks fans that are complaining about picking up Billups' option. If thats your only blemish on Grunwald's resume thus far I'll take it. Stoudemire's contract could become a major asset as a 23M expiring.

phoenix_bladen
12-20-2012, 10:19 PM
Chandler doesn't even play and has had some really bad injuries woes since leaving NY. He's not exactly moveable.

And I don't know many if any Knicks fans that are complaining about picking up Billups' option. If thats your only blemish on Grunwald's resume thus far I'll take it. Stoudemire's contract could become a major asset as a 23M expiring.

exactly

amare had a pretty bad year and he still put up 17 and 8 last year.

If he comes back healthy he'll be good and even if he doesn't play good there is a great chance he'll be pretty decent this year and next

and when he does expire who cares? it's easier to trade an expiring contract.

If the knicks had to re-up the contracts like others have said to gallo and chandler they'd be over the cap again anyways. Good to have traded them ..... too bad the CBA was up at that time or else Melo would have just came to the knicks for free and we wouldn't even have this conversation now.

SoFreshNsoClean
12-21-2012, 03:51 AM
Its obvious at this point who won the trade however knick fans gloating and acting like they have become a dynasty already is slightly annoying

The east coast champ isn't crowned for a while last time I checked

WAYNEBO
12-21-2012, 02:35 PM
Man, that's hilarious. You are literally defending this. Yes, Amare relied on athleticism, decline was a distinct possibility.

They did not need to pick up the option. Billups contract would be up by now with the Knicks and they could have used the amnesty later on Amare. And if they felt Billups was an injury risk and would be reduced to a bench player, why would they pick up the option?

No, it's not even steven. Stop being a homer.

Not being a homer at all.. I don't do homer. I'm giving my opinion of NYK's logic during the sequence of events. How can I defend not amnestying STAT's ridiculous contract now? But then it was debatable.

After trading Felton, NYK didn't have a better option than Billups at the time. The intentions were obviously sincere to go with him. But like I said, when Tyson was suddenly available, they made a decision, albeit the wrong one. Billups or STAT had to go, and Chauncey's contract was more digestable to eat than Amare's for no return on the dollar. But honestly, would NYK be where they are at today with him running the point?

D-Leethal
12-21-2012, 02:47 PM
Its obvious at this point who won the trade however knick fans gloating and acting like they have become a dynasty already is slightly annoying

The east coast champ isn't crowned for a while last time I checked

After all the haters and naysayers we had to endure the entire off season, telling us Melo was the 17th best player in the NBA (:facepalm:, I mean seriously), everyone hear saying the Nets were better, were a 7 seed at best, JKidd is washed up, the Felton fatboy jokes, all the AARP old jokes, its nice to be able to gloat and give a nice big middle finger to all the naysayers.

You would do the same thing. Every Knicks fan knows getting past Miami/Chicago is going to be a daunting task come playoff time. But were going to enjoy this run to get there, we haven't tasted success in awhile its like your first sip of beer at Friday happy hour after a horrible work week. Its a beautiful thing.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-21-2012, 02:52 PM
I see Nuggets having more success.

JordansBulls
12-21-2012, 05:11 PM
I see Nuggets having more success.

They haven't really had any playoff success either but the Knicks have a much better chance to advance far then the Nuggets will.

JordansBulls
12-23-2012, 04:11 PM
Its obvious at this point who won the trade however knick fans gloating and acting like they have become a dynasty already is slightly annoying

The east coast champ isn't crowned for a while last time I checked

When you haven't been relevant in years what more do you expect.

Becks2307
12-23-2012, 04:52 PM
Again as I said before

the Knicks improved a lot more from this trade than the nuggets did.

JordansBulls
12-25-2012, 11:23 AM
Again as I said before

the Knicks improved a lot more from this trade than the nuggets did.

Agreed. Especially when we think about it now, but I guess it depends on how you view it up until now for both teams vs the future.

GiantsSwaGG
12-25-2012, 11:33 AM
I see Nuggets having more success than the Lakers

Fixed

jimm120
12-25-2012, 11:53 AM
Again as I said before

the Knicks improved a lot more from this trade than the nuggets did.


Agreed. Especially when we think about it now, but I guess it depends on how you view it up until now for both teams vs the future.

Knicks improved.

Knicks got better.

Only reason the Nuggets had better records was because Dantoni sucked and got the Knicks in holes.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2012, 11:57 AM
Denver is such a hard team to read especially with their schedule. I bet most people would be surprised to know Denver actually has the best home court winning percentage in the NBA this season so far. The schedule makers were not friendly to the Nuggets to begin this season.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2012, 12:11 PM
To answer the original question I think looking at the start of this season you have to give it to the Knicks because Anythony has played great. In the first season and a half I think it was even or maybe a slight lean to the Nuggets. For the future it will depend on how guys like Gallo, Chandler, Kofus, and Moz progress and what the Nuggets end up doing with the flexibility the trade gave them. The Knicks are closer to being a championship team right now. Winning a championship would be the real clincher in my mind.

BBallfan8
12-25-2012, 12:23 PM
Nuggets have a very good team, but this isn't what the question is about. The only two players contributing to either team from the original trade is gallo and Melo. The question isn't who is better between then Knicks and nuggets.... It's between gallo and Melo, and that's not even close.

DanG
12-25-2012, 12:24 PM
Knicks.

D-Leethal
12-25-2012, 12:27 PM
Nuggets have a very good team, but this isn't what the question is about. The only two players contributing to either team from the original trade is gallo and Melo. The question isn't who is better between then Knicks and nuggets.... It's between gallo and Melo, and that's not even close.

Pretty much this. Nuggets being a good young team is because of guys like Gallo, Lawson, Faried, McGee. Gallo is the only guy out of their young core group who came from the Melo trade.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2012, 12:29 PM
Nuggets have a very good team, but this isn't what the question is about. The only two players contributing to either team from the original trade is gallo and Melo. The question isn't who is better between then Knicks and nuggets.... It's between gallo and Melo, and that's not even close.

Koufos starts and plays around 22 minutes a game (7 pts-6reb). Chandler has been injured but hopefully he will get well at some point. If you are to take a snapshot in time right now it would be the Knicks.

D-Leethal
12-25-2012, 12:38 PM
Koufos starts and plays around 22 minutes a game (7 pts-6reb). Chandler has been injured but hopefully he will get well at some point. If you are to take a snapshot in time right now it would be the Knicks.

Was Koufus used with our pick?

Either way, I don't think its even remotely possible Gallo, Wilson and Koufus ever come close to the impact Melo makes on the court.

This is more circumstantial but its pretty clear half our team coming here is a result of Melo being here. JR said a huge reason he came was to play with Melo again, who I believe is the godfather of his daughter, Tyson nixed the GS offer at the 11th hour to form the best frontline in basketball (his words at the time, obviously didn't work out from the get-go), Kidd said he saw a lot of similarities and Melo as Dirk and thought he could help him get over the hump, Camby said his ex teammates were a big reason he wanted to come here along with other reasons.

A star like Melo has intangible effects that guys like Wilson, Gallo and Koufus will never bring to their teams.

Kashmir13579
12-25-2012, 12:41 PM
Was Koufus used with our pick?

Either way, I don't think its even remotely possible Gallo, Wilson and Koufus ever come close to the impact Melo makes on the court.

This is more circumstantial but its pretty clear half our team coming here is a result of Melo being here. JR said a huge reason he came was to play with Melo again, who I believe is the godfather of his daughter, Tyson nixed the GS offer at the 11th hour to form the best frontline in basketball (his words at the time, obviously didn't work out from the get-go), Kidd said he saw a lot of similarities and Melo as Dirk and thought he could help him get over the hump, Camby said his ex teammates were a big reason he wanted to come here along with other reasons.

A star like Melo has intangible effects that guys like Wilson, Gallo and Koufus will never bring to their teams.
i seem to remember Kidd signing on for a different reason :rolleyes:

Merry X-Mas bro.

nycericanguy
12-25-2012, 12:44 PM
Gallo has far and away been the only real piece DEN got in the trade, and he's shot 39% overall since joining DEN.

Kashmir13579
12-25-2012, 12:47 PM
Gallo has far and away been the only real piece DEN got in the trade, and he's shot 39% overall since joining DEN.

wtf is going on with him?

nycericanguy
12-25-2012, 12:47 PM
DEN got alot of quantity in the trade, but Gallo thus far has been the only real quality they got.

And Andre Miller who came indirectly as well.

nycericanguy
12-25-2012, 12:49 PM
wtf is going on with him?

He's a career 41% shooter, I used to say if he could get that up to at least a more respectable 44-45% he could really be a star, but it seems he might just be a low % shooter as its been 5 seasons now in the low 40's.

But he's still efficient and a very good all around player.

D-Leethal
12-25-2012, 12:54 PM
i seem to remember Kidd signing on for a different reason :rolleyes:

Merry X-Mas bro.

Whats that?

He said a bunch of **** in probably 50 different interviews but that was definitely one of them. He also said Dirk told him to come here because we had more pieces and were closer to a title - I don't think anyone can say that would be the case without Melo.


GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Jason Kidd helped Dirk Nowitzki win an NBA championship in Dallas, and now he wants to help Carmelo Anthony win one in New York.

“That’s the plan,” Kidd said Tuesday after the team’s first day of practice. “I hope so.”

Kidd and Nowitzki won an NBA championship with the Mavericks in 2011, yet Melo and the Knicks are seeking the franchise’s first title since 1973.

Still, Kidd sees similarities between Anthony and Nowitzki.

“Oh, yes, very similar, very talented,” Kidd said. “Demand a lot of attention, so hopefully what I’ve helped with Dirk and Dirk is now one of the top players in this league, hopefully I can do the same with Melo.”

Obviously it doesn't say thats the only reason he came, but I'm pretty sure it played it a big part.

Cal827
12-25-2012, 01:08 PM
DEN got alot of quantity in the trade, but Gallo thus far has been the only real quality they got.

And Andre Miller who came indirectly as well.

Didn't they also get Wilson Chandler?

PJAF
12-25-2012, 01:14 PM
R U serious? Any team with Carmelo is better off. What an insane question.

nycericanguy
12-25-2012, 01:19 PM
Didn't they also get Wilson Chandler?

And he's fallen off the face of the earth since going there.

One of the concerns in NY with Chandler were the injuries, the guy is 25 and has had like 5 or 6 surgeries already.

b@llhog24
12-25-2012, 01:27 PM
Denver.

Yankeefan213
12-25-2012, 01:38 PM
Denver.

Care to explain how?

FeltonYaMotha
12-25-2012, 01:41 PM
Now in hindsight -- Who won the Carmelo Anthony trade? Nuggets or Knicks

What really defines both franchises are the moves they made after the trade (Tyson and quality veterans to surround Melo for the Knicks and acquiring Iggy and dropping Nene's contract for the Nuggets). Both teams got exactly what they wanted and I don't think for a second that either of them regret making the deal. With that being said, as of right now I think the Knicks got the better part of the deal if you compare each player involved. After getting Felton back, we basically traded two middle of the pack forwards with strong upside in Gallo and Chandler for a franchise player in Melo who is playing at an MVP-caliber level. I liked Mozgov in New York but he will never amount to anything more than a serviceable backup center. We'll have to see how the draft picks pan out in 2013 and 2014 for the Nuggets before making the final call though.

BallIsAll
12-25-2012, 02:45 PM
What really defines both franchises are the moves they made after the trade (Tyson and quality veterans to surround Melo for the Knicks and acquiring Iggy and dropping Nene's contract for the Nuggets). Both teams got exactly what they wanted and I don't think for a second that either of them regret making the deal. With that being said, as of right now I think the Knicks got the better part of the deal if you compare each player involved. After getting Felton back, we basically traded two middle of the pack forwards with strong upside in Gallo and Chandler for a franchise player in Melo who is playing at an MVP-caliber level. I liked Mozgov in New York but he will never amount to anything more than a serviceable backup center. We'll have to see how the draft picks pan out in 2013 and 2014 for the Nuggets before making the final call though.


Good assessment of the trade. But this is how the trade went.
When it was all said and done
Nuggets got
Gallo
Chandler
Miller
Kufous
Mozgov
Hamilton
2 future first
Out of the trade because Felton was traded for miller and Hamilton

Knicks got
Melo
Billups
Balkman
Carter

Knicks got the better player by far but the nuggets got flexibility and assets. The records don't indicate who won the trade as jr smith jkidd Novak and now Felton are also big parts of why the Knicks are playing so well. It's not just melo going all MVP on teams. The trade was won by the nuggets. The Knicks have put a good team around melo and are doing fantastic but all in all the trade was won by the nuggets as you can see above everything they got compared to the Knicks.

D-Leethal
12-25-2012, 02:56 PM
Good assessment of the trade. But this is how the trade went.
When it was all said and done
Nuggets got
Gallo
Chandler
Miller
Kufous
Mozgov
Hamilton
2 future first
Out of the trade because Felton was traded for miller and Hamilton

Knicks got
Melo
Billups
Balkman
Carter

Knicks got the better player by far but the nuggets got flexibility and assets. The records don't indicate who won the trade as jr smith jkidd Novak and now Felton are also big parts of why the Knicks are playing so well. It's not just melo going all MVP on teams. The trade was won by the nuggets. The Knicks have put a good team around melo and are doing fantastic but all in all the trade was won by the nuggets as you can see above everything they got compared to the Knicks.

Knicks amnestied Billups and got Tyson Chandler. And the Nuggets have a very good team outside of the pieces they got for Melo. The pieces you got from Melo that are contributing to your success are nowhere near Melo impact level.

LOOTERX9
12-25-2012, 05:32 PM
i've been defending the melo trade in the knicks favor for the longest time now. gallo is nothing more than a role player, so is wilson and felton. mozgov is a joke that knick fans were mad he was added in that trade. I feel like I have been vindicated. knick fans owe me an apology

nycericanguy
12-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Good assessment of the trade. But this is how the trade went.
When it was all said and done
Nuggets got
Gallo
Chandler
Miller
Kufous
Mozgov
Hamilton
2 future first
Out of the trade because Felton was traded for miller and Hamilton

Knicks got
Melo
Billups
Balkman
Carter

Knicks got the better player by far but the nuggets got flexibility and assets. The records don't indicate who won the trade as jr smith jkidd Novak and now Felton are also big parts of why the Knicks are playing so well. It's not just melo going all MVP on teams. The trade was won by the nuggets. The Knicks have put a good team around melo and are doing fantastic but all in all the trade was won by the nuggets as you can see above everything they got compared to the Knicks.

Well If you're going to look at it like that then NY also got Tyson by acquiring Billups' contract. Without that contract = No Tyson.

b@llhog24
12-25-2012, 07:59 PM
Care to explain how?

Nope.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2012, 08:06 PM
I think both teams won.

The Nuggets won any trade at that point because they traded a player for multiple players and draft picks who was going to leave as a free agent no matter what in 27 games.

The Knicks won because they got a star player who they wanted even if they had to give up some players/draft picks they may have wanted to keep otherwise.

JordansBulls
01-01-2013, 09:13 PM
I think both teams won.

The Nuggets won any trade at that point because they traded a player for multiple players and draft picks who was going to leave as a free agent no matter what in 27 games.

The Knicks won because they got a star player who they wanted even if they had to give up some players/draft picks they may have wanted to keep otherwise.

Well I guess it depends. Short Term the Nuggets won, long term it appears the Knicks will win.

RLundi
01-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Well I guess it depends. Short Term the Nuggets won, long term it appears the Knicks will win.

Why are you bumping all your old threads?

JordansBulls
01-01-2013, 09:22 PM
Why are you bumping all your old threads?

I'm not, I am looking at some threads I couldn't get to while I was out of the country.

JordansBulls
02-27-2013, 01:06 PM
Knicks started 6-0 and Nuggets 4-5.

Now the standings are: Knicks 33-20 (.623) and Nuggets 36-22 (.621). Also the Nuggets had a better record prior to this year from the trade. I did not think the Nuggets would have as good a record as the Knicks this year, but they caught up and not sure how.

BallIsAll
02-27-2013, 01:14 PM
Knicks started 6-0 and Nuggets 4-5.

Now the standings are: Knicks 33-20 (.623) and Nuggets 36-22 (.621). Also the Nuggets had a better record prior to this year from the trade. I did not think the Nuggets would have as good a record as the Knicks this year, but they caught up and not sure how.


True. I think both teams won the trade.

Jetsguy
02-27-2013, 01:25 PM
Knicks started 6-0 and Nuggets 4-5.

Now the standings are: Knicks 33-20 (.623) and Nuggets 36-22 (.621). Also the Nuggets had a better record prior to this year from the trade. I did not think the Nuggets would have as good a record as the Knicks this year, but they caught up and not sure how.

It just doesnt seem like the best way to compare (although I am not sure what is) by using records. Each team has so many different players not involved in the deal that have significant roles into what the records are.

Having said that how can it not be even? Denver lost a franchise cornerstone and didnt skip a step, the Knicks are finally relevant after over a decade of crap.

nycericanguy
02-27-2013, 01:26 PM
Now someone bring back the Jeremy Lin thread and we'll be all set!

But yea team records aren't how you judge trades, would be like saying OKC won the Harden trade because they have a better record than HOU.

DEN was already a much better team with young players waiting in the wings to take over.

D-Leethal
02-27-2013, 01:45 PM
We both got what we wanted. Den plays in the West which is much tougher but they also have the biggest advantage at home. I mean look at their road record compared to home. I don't see them winning a playoff series that way.

mjqusoldier
02-27-2013, 01:46 PM
The Knicks won the trade because the Knicks are title contenders with a deep roster that has blown out the Heat twice this year without Melo without Stat and some other players while the Nuggets have a good team that can win games but doesn't have a good chance to make it out of the west due to lack of star power...(Melo)

D-Leethal
02-27-2013, 01:47 PM
The Knicks won the trade because the Knicks are title contenders with a deep roster that has blown out the Heat twice this year without Melo without Stat and some other players while the Nuggets have a good team that can win games but doesn't have a good chance to make it out of the west due to lack of star power...(Melo)

I don't necessarily disagree but you just opened up a can of worms.

Guppyfighter
02-27-2013, 02:23 PM
Knicks aren't title contenders. They have regressed in every facet I said they would regress in when this thread was going on.

Nuggets kill them in the SRS, have younger players, and no bad contracts. So, Nuggets are statistically better this year and don't have the burden of the aging curve + bad contracts in the future. Nuggets would be considered a title contender in the East.

D-Leethal
02-27-2013, 02:30 PM
Knicks aren't title contenders. They have regressed in every facet I said they would regress in when this thread was going on.

Nuggets kill them in the SRS, have younger players, and no bad contracts. So, Nuggets are statistically better this year and don't have the burden of the aging curve + bad contracts in the future. Nuggets would be considered a title contender in the East.

No they wouldn't. And they have some bad contracts. McGee and Chandler are both bad contracts. They might be statistically better but they aren't making it thru four rounds of grueling playoff series without a star to bail them out at the end of games and win those 50-50 games for them. I understand you don't think anything holds weight without statistical evidence and the game is played on paper so I don't expect you to agree.

Vegas sees the Knicks as the 5th most likely team to win it all (behind Heat, Spurs, Clips, OKC). Obviously its not the best way to gauge anything but its interesting to note because like it or not, those guys have millions of dollars on the line to be right and more often than not they are.

Guppyfighter
02-27-2013, 02:34 PM
No they wouldn't. And they have some bad contracts. McGee and Chandler are both bad contracts. They might be statistically better but they aren't making it thru four rounds of grueling playoff series without a star to bail them out at the end of games and win those 50-50 games for them. I understand you don't think anything holds weight without statistical evidence and the game is played on paper so I don't expect you to agree.

Vegas sees the Knicks as the 5th most likely team to win it all (behind Heat, Spurs, Clips, OKC), Nuggets are somewhere around 10-12 IIRC. Obviously its not the best way to gauge anything but its interesting to note because like it or not, those guys have millions of dollars on the line to be right and more often than not they are.

As a guy who gambles a lot of his money that's not how Vegas works. Vegas has the odds set up so they make money no matter what. The Knicks being fifth doesn't mean they are the fifth most likely team to win, it means that they are being picked a lot to win by a lot of people. That's why usually bigger market teams have bad payouts in Vegas. Because they have more fans betting on them. I agree that the Knicks have a better chance than the Nuggets, but that's because of the conference they play in.

Javale Mcgee isn't a bad contract. Fair deal there. Karl just gotta use him more.

blahblahyoutoo
02-27-2013, 02:37 PM
The Knicks won the trade because the Knicks are title contenders with a deep roster that has blown out the Heat twice this year without Melo without Stat and some other players while the Nuggets have a good team that can win games but doesn't have a good chance to make it out of the west due to lack of star power...(Melo)
1. the knicks are not title contenders. even people in the knicks forum know this. there's a thread on it in there (the championship pipe dream thread)
2. the knicks do not have a deep roster
3. the heat would've absolutely crushed the knicks if they weren't sleep walking thru the 1st half of the season. i sincerely hope we meet in the playoffs.

D-Leethal
02-27-2013, 02:40 PM
1. the knicks are not title contenders. even people in the knicks forum know this. there's a thread on it in there (the championship pipe dream thread)
2. the knicks do not have a deep roster
3. the heat would've absolutely crushed the knicks if they weren't sleep walking thru the 1st half of the season. i sincerely hope we meet in the playoffs.

Knicks have been sleepwalking for months now and nobody seems to acknowledge that. I know we don't have the championship clout collectively, but were full of battle tested vets who understand you don't win chips in the regular season. They got off to their hot start, got a big lead on the division and started coasting. I think we'll see them pick it up again very soon just like the Heat did. I don't expect you to agree though.

Guppyfighter
02-27-2013, 02:44 PM
Knicks have been sleepwalking for months now and nobody seems to acknowledge that. I know we don't have the championship clout collectively, but were full of battle tested vets who understand you don't win chips in the regular season. They got off to their hot start, got a big lead on the division and started coasting. I think we'll see them pick it up again very soon just like the Heat did. I don't expect you to agree though.

At the start of the season everyone on your team was shooting above their career average in threes and playing unsustainable good defense for the scheme they implemented.


I talked it about it in this thread. You can review where I said it but I predicted regression in defense (happened,) and on their ability to shoot the three ball (happened.)

It's not that they are sleep walking, it's just they were playing way over their heads in terms of actual ability.

xxplayerxx23
02-27-2013, 02:56 PM
Both team won. Knicks and nuggets are both contenders, don't see either going to the finals but they both have a chance

4milesperday
02-27-2013, 02:59 PM
Edge to Knicks because they get a superstar but the Nuggets have the better future. Both teams can make noise in the play-offs but Nuggets will likely make it past the first round and that can't be said of the Knicks.

xxplayerxx23
02-27-2013, 03:03 PM
Edge to Knicks because they get a superstar but the Nuggets have the better future. Both teams can make noise in the play-offs but Nuggets will likely make it past the first round and that can't be said of the Knicks.

How? Just because the past says so? This is a completely different team and we won't have to go up against Miami in the first round. We will make it past round one. Who is to say Denver can get past the tough west?

IgglesFanInCO
02-27-2013, 03:23 PM
Both teams would be worse if they hadnt made those trades, they both won and they won equally

If you wanna judge by how good the teams are now they are pretty much identical, similar ceilings, similar expectations

nycericanguy
02-27-2013, 03:30 PM
At the start of the season everyone on your team was shooting above their career average in threes and playing unsustainable good defense for the scheme they implemented.


I talked it about it in this thread. You can review where I said it but I predicted regression in defense (happened,) and on their ability to shoot the three ball (happened.)

It's not that they are sleep walking, it's just they were playing way over their heads in terms of actual ability.

And right now just about everyone on the Knicks is shooting unsustainable lows from the field in the past month or two. It's called the ups and downs of an NBA season. They weren't as good as their 18-5 start, but they are not as bad as the last two months or so.

At the end of the day they will even out and win 50-55 games.

And really? You predicted that they wouldn't hit 40+% from 3 all year? :rolleyes: Wow you really went out on a limb there.

blahblahyoutoo
02-27-2013, 03:55 PM
At the start of the season everyone on your team was shooting above their career average in threes and playing unsustainable good defense for the scheme they implemented.


I talked it about it in this thread. You can review where I said it but I predicted regression in defense (happened,) and on their ability to shoot the three ball (happened.)

It's not that they are sleep walking, it's just they were playing way over their heads in terms of actual ability.

exactly this.
everyone was shocked to the knicks quick start, but every NBA analyst, PSD poster that's not rocking an NYK logo (correctly) predicted the fall back down to earth.

blahblahyoutoo
02-27-2013, 03:59 PM
And really? You predicted that they wouldn't hit 40+% from 3 all year? :rolleyes: Wow you really went out on a limb there.

we also predicted y'all were too old and slow, and hence injury prone.
and laughed when you said wait until rasheed and camby return. as if relying on two 40 year olds as saviours were keys to a championship.

jimm120
02-27-2013, 04:08 PM
NY GAINED more because they were only a .500 team with Dantoni and Amare. With Melo, they're better than that.

Denver stayed competitive.


Both teams got what they wanted.


NY gained more. Denver got slightly worse. Both competitive.

Twins Fanatic
02-27-2013, 04:12 PM
Would love to see the results of a seven game series if these two teams could ever match up against each other.

tp13baby
02-27-2013, 04:15 PM
NY GAINED more because they were only a .500 team with Dantoni and Amare. With Melo, they're better than that.

Denver stayed competitive.


Both teams got what they wanted.


NY gained more. Denver got slightly worse. Both competitive.

Denver got worse? How? You mean the consistant first round exits? Continually being a bottom seed in the West with Melo. I thank him cause basketball is relevant in Denver again.

I like Denvers roster so much more. We got talent everywhere. The fourth youngest team. We may not have a superstar now, but who says the guys on our roster can't be one? They are all young and finally our top guys are playing up to their potential.

Guppyfighter
02-27-2013, 05:49 PM
And right now just about everyone on the Knicks is shooting unsustainable lows from the field in the past month or two. It's called the ups and downs of an NBA season. They weren't as good as their 18-5 start, but they are not as bad as the last two months or so.

At the end of the day they will even out and win 50-55 games.

And really? You predicted that they wouldn't hit 40+% from 3 all year? :rolleyes: Wow you really went out on a limb there.


Did you also see where I said I predicted regression in defense because their defensive scheme was stupid and that there was no way they were top 12 in defensive efficiency.

xxplayerxx23
02-27-2013, 06:10 PM
:laugh: we feel off yet we are 33-20 not to shabby if I do say myself. We have been on a bumpy road every team has it, we will finish with 48-52 wins what I called in the start of the year.

SLY WILLIAMS
02-27-2013, 07:23 PM
I think the Knicks have the better team right now but that is not all due to the trade. I think both teams won in that trade.

Nuggets got Gallo, Chandler, Koufos, Mozgov, and, two 2nd round picks and are still due a 2014 first round pick in that 3 team trade.

Knicks got Melo

It may be a situation where the Knicks win the trade oday and for the next couple of years while Denver may win the trade from 3 years on out from now.

What is kind of ironic is so many Den/NY/Min players ended up later finding themselves on other teams involved with that trade but not as a part of the original trade.

Den ended up getting Brewer (Min/NY) and Anthony Randolph(Min/NY)
The Knicks ended up getting Felton back as well as JR (Den) and Kmart (Den/LA)

DR_1
02-27-2013, 08:55 PM
Knicks started 6-0 and Nuggets 4-5.

Now the standings are: Knicks 33-20 (.623) and Nuggets 36-22 (.621). Also the Nuggets had a better record prior to this year from the trade. I did not think the Nuggets would have as good a record as the Knicks this year, but they caught up and not sure how.

STOP FREAKiNG BUMPING ALL YOUR OLD THREADS

Please ban him mods

JEDean89
02-27-2013, 09:09 PM
Nuggets are better. I'm sorry these are my two teams and I know. Nuggs play better team basketball and bring it every night. The Knicks have taken 20 games off this season. There is no reason they should be losing to the Raptors at home while talking about Championships in the same day. None. Nuggets have the youth, better cap space and a better bench. If the Nuggs can improve their FT shooting watch out.

tp13baby
02-27-2013, 09:10 PM
:laugh: we feel off yet we are 33-20 not to shabby if I do say myself. We have been on a bumpy road every team has it, we will finish with 48-52 wins what I called in the start of the year.

that win total is great in the east but the west you are probably a 6 or 7 seed.

Knicks21
02-27-2013, 09:31 PM
Players like Chandler and Gallinari and Felton were replaceable, not every team has a player like Melo. Thats the way the Knicks FO viewed it at the time and it was absolutely the right decision.

Knicks21
02-27-2013, 09:33 PM
Nuggets are better. I'm sorry these are my two teams and I know. Nuggs play better team basketball and bring it every night. The Knicks have taken 20 games off this season. There is no reason they should be losing to the Raptors at home while talking about Championships in the same day. None. Nuggets have the youth, better cap space and a better bench. If the Nuggs can improve their FT shooting watch out.

There is also no reason the Heat should be giving up 130 points in double OT to the Kings at home, but hey, it happens.

Knicks21
02-27-2013, 09:34 PM
1. the knicks are not title contenders. even people in the knicks forum know this. there's a thread on it in there (the championship pipe dream thread)
2. the knicks do not have a deep roster
3. the heat would've absolutely crushed the knicks if they weren't sleep walking thru the 1st half of the season. i sincerely hope we meet in the playoffs.

Weak excuse.

siix
02-27-2013, 09:34 PM
nuggets would easily beat the knicks in a playoff series.

JordansBulls
02-28-2013, 05:46 PM
nuggets would easily beat the knicks in a playoff series.

How so?

nycericanguy
02-28-2013, 05:53 PM
Did you also see where I said I predicted regression in defense because their defensive scheme was stupid and that there was no way they were top 12 in defensive efficiency.

what does that even mean?...lol. Their defensive scheme was "stupid"?

Knicks haven't been a great defensive team all year really actually.

nycericanguy
02-28-2013, 05:55 PM
Nuggets are better. I'm sorry these are my two teams and I know. Nuggs play better team basketball and bring it every night. The Knicks have taken 20 games off this season. There is no reason they should be losing to the Raptors at home while talking about Championships in the same day. None. Nuggets have the youth, better cap space and a better bench. If the Nuggs can improve their FT shooting watch out.

If the Knicks have taken 20 games off and are still 34-20 I'd say thats pretty damn impressive.

And I'm pretty sure MIA lost to WSH who has a worse record than TOR, as did OKC, DEN, CHI...etc... should those teams not be talking title? or does that standard only apply to NY?

Nuggets have a great HCA, they play in that mountain air, they are an insane 24-3 at home, but on the road they are very mediocre at best.

justinnum1
02-28-2013, 05:57 PM
Nuggets are better. I'm sorry these are my two teams and I know. Nuggs play better team basketball and bring it every night. The Knicks have taken 20 games off this season. There is no reason they should be losing to the Raptors at home while talking about Championships in the same day. None. Nuggets have the youth, better cap space and a better bench. If the Nuggs can improve their FT shooting watch out.

Well said.

Guppyfighter
02-28-2013, 05:58 PM
what does that even mean?...lol. Their defensive scheme was "stupid"?

Knicks haven't been a great defensive team all year really actually.

Uh, they were top 12 for a good amount of the first half and many Knicks fans claimed they were a good defensive team.

http://www.nbastuffer.com/

If you click November you can see they were above average in Defense.

Onto the defensive scheme. A large part of the Knicks defensive scheme is doubling low post threats while they are in the post. The thing is they do this while the first pass is to an open man, and they give up a good amount of open shots this way. I saw this and pointed out how their efficiency didn't match their actual defensive work.

And after that dumb defensive philosophy you have guys like Melo not trying on defense, Novak getting lost, and just horrible all around dumb defensive play by everyone not named Tyson Chandler.

b@llhog24
02-28-2013, 06:21 PM
Read thru the first couple of pages. Knicks fans are insufferable.

WARRIORS@GR
02-28-2013, 07:13 PM
i can't get the 'we got a superstar,so we won the trade' argument..so if GS trades curry,thompson,barnes,lee,jack to the lakers for kobe and meeks who wins the trade?

uprightciti
02-28-2013, 07:27 PM
Read thru the first couple of pages. Knicks fans are insufferable.

Kings fan....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HeaTxRipZz
02-28-2013, 07:41 PM
i can't get the 'we got a superstar,so we won the trade' argument..so if GS trades curry,thompson,barnes,lee,jack to the lakers for kobe and meeks who wins the trade?

Kobe is much closer to retirement than Carmelo is. I think we should have used another example. Also David Lee is an allstar as well as Curry should be. The Knicks pretty much traded role players for a superstar. Not saying we completely won the trade but we did by a very small margin (ATM). Playoff time will tell a lot

tp13baby
02-28-2013, 07:42 PM
If the Knicks have taken 20 games off and are still 34-20 I'd say thats pretty damn impressive.

And I'm pretty sure MIA lost to WSH who has a worse record than TOR, as did OKC, DEN, CHI...etc... should those teams not be talking title? or does that standard only apply to NY?

Nuggets have a great HCA, they play in that mountain air, they are an insane 24-3 at home, but on the road they are very mediocre at best.

We were consistently on the road at the start of the season. 22 games on the road in the first month in a half. Play that many on the road at one time and tell me where the Knicks would be on the road.

We are .500 after the awful first month and a half schedule on the road. Winning record on the road last year.

WARRIORS@GR
02-28-2013, 07:58 PM
Kobe is much closer to retirement than Carmelo is. I think we should have used another example. Also David Lee is an allstar as well as Curry should be. The Knicks pretty much traded role players for a superstar. Not saying we completely won the trade but we did by a very small margin (ATM). Playoff time will tell a lotyeah it's not a good example..just wanted to say i disagree with the context 'whoever gets the superstar wins the trade'..

I think both teams won this one..both are better..knicks at least have a chance to go deep in the playoffs with a superstar who is able to take over..
Nuggets were a first round exit,now they have a better record and might make it to the semifinals imo.they also have a nice young core going forward.

Guppyfighter
02-28-2013, 08:00 PM
Both might make it out of the first round, both might not. It in no way dictates who won the trade though. It just doesn't make sense especially considering the Nuggets are in a difference conference.

Tkwod5
02-28-2013, 10:20 PM
Knicks; Melo was the missing piece that has allowed for the recent rise to fame!

b@llhog24
02-28-2013, 10:21 PM
Kings fan....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:confused:

nycericanguy
02-28-2013, 10:41 PM
We were consistently on the road at the start of the season. 22 games on the road in the first month in a half. Play that many on the road at one time and tell me where the Knicks would be on the road.

We are .500 after the awful first month and a half schedule on the road. Winning record on the road last year.

I like DEN, u guys have a very good team, more defending the Knicks and some of the idiotic comments on here.

though I didn't realize just how much of a HCA Denver has. reminds me of the rockies in baseball

JordansBulls
03-03-2013, 10:35 AM
If the Knicks have taken 20 games off and are still 34-20 I'd say thats pretty damn impressive.

And I'm pretty sure MIA lost to WSH who has a worse record than TOR, as did OKC, DEN, CHI...etc... should those teams not be talking title? or does that standard only apply to NY?

Nuggets have a great HCA, they play in that mountain air, they are an insane 24-3 at home, but on the road they are very mediocre at best.

What the hell do you mean they have taken 20 games off?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-03-2013, 10:46 AM
What the hell do you mean they have taken 20 games off?

I think he meant that Knicks havent played a lick of defense the last 20 games

BKLYNpigeon
03-03-2013, 11:02 AM
The Team with the best player usually wins the trade.

But overall I think the Nuggets have the better team since the trade. they have many talented players and great salary cap flexibility.

JordansBulls
03-04-2013, 10:23 PM
I think he meant that Knicks havent played a lick of defense the last 20 games

oh, I got you.:p

JordansBulls
03-09-2013, 11:33 PM
Amare's injury will hinder this a bit.

iam brett favre
03-09-2013, 11:36 PM
How so?

By winning 4 times before the Knicks do, I'm assuming. :)

KnicksorBust
03-10-2013, 09:46 AM
The great thing about this trade is you could still argue either side and have a convincing argument. Good luck to the Nuggets in the playoffs.






























Oh and I obviously think the Knicks won the trade but it'd be pretty hard to convince everyone I wasn't biased in saying so. :)

cmellofan15
03-10-2013, 11:14 AM
well the Nuggets won in a very roundabout way which includes factoring in the players the left during the lockout, the cap space opening up, giving up felton for andre miller, trading Nene for Vale, and of course the trade for Igoudala which all became possible after this trade.

the nuggets front office has done an AMAZING job in the past two years of really revitalizing the roster and capitalizing on a more team focused game rather than just run and gun with Carmelo and Nene at the helm. as of now we are 1st in offensive rating (knicks 3rd), 15th in defensive rating (knicks 16th), and 5th in the simple rating system of bbreference (knicks 8th), with the 2nd highest pace which surprisingly hasn't resulted in very many injuries this year. so we have definitely been the better team this season despite the awful road game skid in the first half of the season with the Knicks not far behind but still behind.

now for the future, we've got all of these guys locked in for at least the next two seasons aside from Igoudala's early termination option. also, aside from iggy, andre, and mozgov, nobody on our roster is over the age of 25 years old which leaves a lot of room for improvement, especially seeing how we've been playing and adapting to the new roles of late. now as for the knicks roster...well..there's iman shumpert who's 22...six guys who are 27-29 and the rest of the roster is 30+. so as of right now our future seems a little more bright but lets not forget all of those vet expirings for New York. but sadly there's no real cap room opening up afterwards so it'll probably just lead to more vet expirings.

so to sum it all up, the knicks are really banking on furthering the success of two of the leagues most unsuccessful superstars in the post season, and we are banking on team basketball in a superstar driven league, and furthering the development of a young, disciplined group (which can go very wrong, see timberwolves). so obviously the teams are going in complete opposite directions and both are doing well up to this point. but if you take into account the great things Denver's front office has done lately against the win now scheme (with a somewhat decrepit roster) of the knicks, I'd bank on Denver's future success. but hey I'm a nuggets fan, what do I know? haha

Jesse2272
03-10-2013, 11:23 AM
Knicks won

suck it

KnicksorBust
03-10-2013, 11:32 AM
well the Nuggets won in a very roundabout way which includes factoring in the players the left during the lockout, the cap space opening up, giving up felton for andre miller, trading Nene for Vale, and of course the trade for Igoudala which all became possible after this trade.

the nuggets front office has done an AMAZING job in the past two years of really revitalizing the roster and capitalizing on a more team focused game rather than just run and gun with Carmelo and Nene at the helm. as of now we are 1st in offensive rating (knicks 3rd), 15th in defensive rating (knicks 16th), and 5th in the simple rating system of bbreference (knicks 8th), with the 2nd highest pace which surprisingly hasn't resulted in very many injuries this year. so we have definitely been the better team this season despite the awful road game skid in the first half of the season with the Knicks not far behind but still behind.

now for the future, we've got all of these guys locked in for at least the next two seasons aside from Igoudala's early termination option. also, aside from iggy, andre, and mozgov, nobody on our roster is over the age of 25 years old which leaves a lot of room for improvement, especially seeing how we've been playing and adapting to the new roles of late. now as for the knicks roster...well..there's iman shumpert who's 22...six guys who are 27-29 and the rest of the roster is 30+. so as of right now our future seems a little more bright but lets not forget all of those vet expirings for New York. but sadly there's no real cap room opening up afterwards so it'll probably just lead to more vet expirings.

so to sum it all up, the knicks are really banking on furthering the success of two of the leagues most unsuccessful superstars in the post season, and we are banking on team basketball in a superstar driven league, and furthering the development of a young, disciplined group (which can go very wrong, see timberwolves). so obviously the teams are going in complete opposite directions and both are doing well up to this point. but if you take into account the great things Denver's front office has done lately against the win now scheme (with a somewhat decrepit roster) of the knicks, I'd bank on Denver's future success. but hey I'm a nuggets fan, what do I know? haha


Knicks won

suck it

The fact that these posts are back to back is too perfect.

jimm120
03-10-2013, 11:40 AM
End of the day, as I mentioned before, BOTH teams won.

Nuggets stayed competitive and on top of that have done some good moves to keep them afloat. I'd rank them slightly worse compared to if they would have kept Melo (which it seems he wasn't staying anyway...).

Knicks had the BIGGEST increase. They've gone from a .500 team to a top 3 seed. That's improvement.

Both teams got what they wanted:
1- Nuggets stayed competitive
2- Knicks became a real, legit playoff team

nycericanguy
03-10-2013, 11:41 AM
well the Nuggets won in a very roundabout way which includes factoring in the players the left during the lockout, the cap space opening up, giving up felton for andre miller, trading Nene for Vale, and of course the trade for Igoudala which all became possible after this trade.

the nuggets front office has done an AMAZING job in the past two years of really revitalizing the roster and capitalizing on a more team focused game rather than just run and gun with Carmelo and Nene at the helm. as of now we are 1st in offensive rating (knicks 3rd), 15th in defensive rating (knicks 16th), and 5th in the simple rating system of bbreference (knicks 8th), with the 2nd highest pace which surprisingly hasn't resulted in very many injuries this year. so we have definitely been the better team this season despite the awful road game skid in the first half of the season with the Knicks not far behind but still behind.

now for the future, we've got all of these guys locked in for at least the next two seasons aside from Igoudala's early termination option. also, aside from iggy, andre, and mozgov, nobody on our roster is over the age of 25 years old which leaves a lot of room for improvement, especially seeing how we've been playing and adapting to the new roles of late. now as for the knicks roster...well..there's iman shumpert who's 22...six guys who are 27-29 and the rest of the roster is 30+. so as of right now our future seems a little more bright but lets not forget all of those vet expirings for New York. but sadly there's no real cap room opening up afterwards so it'll probably just lead to more vet expirings.

so to sum it all up, the knicks are really banking on furthering the success of two of the leagues most unsuccessful superstars in the post season, and we are banking on team basketball in a superstar driven league, and furthering the development of a young, disciplined group (which can go very wrong, see timberwolves). so obviously the teams are going in complete opposite directions and both are doing well up to this point. but if you take into account the great things Denver's front office has done lately against the win now scheme (with a somewhat decrepit roster) of the knicks, I'd bank on Denver's future success. but hey I'm a nuggets fan, what do I know? haha

You're trying too hard with this post, its not about who has the better FO, its about who won the trade.

Knicks were going WIN - now... in 3 years they'll have all the cap space in the world AND Melo. They got what they wanted. Keep in mind Knicks were a lotto team the year before the trade, and around .500 right before the trade, and DEN was a 50+ win team, now Knicks are on pace for well over 50 wins.

Nuggets wanted youth, they got what they wanted.

But at the end of the day I think most DEN fans would trade Gallo & Chandler who make $16m combined for Melo... and those were the 3 main pieces really.

Ty_Lawson
03-10-2013, 12:06 PM
i wouldn't trade Gallo & Chandler for Melo...Chandler+JHam would be nice,but to give Gallo for melo,i dont want that..

cmellofan15
03-10-2013, 12:47 PM
haha considering all trades, including this one, are completed only through front offices of NBA teams. how would I be trying too hard by justifying my point of Denver was the better front office through this trade and continues to be the better front office? and yes, the Knicks were going win now in a conference dominated by the best win now team ever constructed (Miami Heat). So having absolutely no foresight, as the NYK's front office has shown us time and time again, they go out and get aging veterans and try to go head to head with the bad boys of the East.

don't get me wrong, this has been very entertaining to watch as the knicks had an amazing first half of the season but wait a sec. look who's durability is showing, the new york knicks. if you think this team is good to go a whole season, let alone 3 seasons you're mistaken. it's shown that it can take a shot at miami early in the regular season, but we all know what miami (more specifically LeBron) does in the post season. we also know how Carmelo performs in the post season (denver fans know very well) and how much of a leader he will (not) be. so instead of keeping a great player with poor leadership and poor defense the nuggets went and did a tremendous job of forming a team with George Karl as the leader.

and if you wanna talk about directions of the franchises, well denver really didn't have a direction. yeah, we were getting 45+ wins and booted from the playoffs every first round and on the brink of losing our indecisive leader to free agency. so instead of letting carmelo walk and possibly falling out of playoff contention we pushed him off on an overzealous knicks franchise who gave up a boatload for him.

so would I trade gallo and wilson for melo? probably not. even though you're pretty off base saying that was the main part of the deal considering that opened up more moves than the nuggets have ever made in a two year stint. but I wouldn't do that deal because we don't need a ball demanding wing player who isn't either a great distributor or a great defender. I don't think George Karl wants back a sub par distributor with a 35% usage percentage (in other words a ball hog).

nycericanguy
03-10-2013, 01:31 PM
haha considering all trades, including this one, are completed only through front offices of NBA teams. how would I be trying too hard by justifying my point of Denver was the better front office through this trade and continues to be the better front office? and yes, the Knicks were going win now in a conference dominated by the best win now team ever constructed (Miami Heat). So having absolutely no foresight, as the NYK's front office has shown us time and time again, they go out and get aging veterans and try to go head to head with the bad boys of the East.

don't get me wrong, this has been very entertaining to watch as the knicks had an amazing first half of the season but wait a sec. look who's durability is showing, the new york knicks. if you think this team is good to go a whole season, let alone 3 seasons you're mistaken. it's shown that it can take a shot at miami early in the regular season, but we all know what miami (more specifically LeBron) does in the post season. we also know how Carmelo performs in the post season (denver fans know very well) and how much of a leader he will (not) be. so instead of keeping a great player with poor leadership and poor defense the nuggets went and did a tremendous job of forming a team with George Karl as the leader.

and if you wanna talk about directions of the franchises, well denver really didn't have a direction. yeah, we were getting 45+ wins and booted from the playoffs every first round and on the brink of losing our indecisive leader to free agency. so instead of letting carmelo walk and possibly falling out of playoff contention we pushed him off on an overzealous knicks franchise who gave up a boatload for him.

so would I trade gallo and wilson for melo? probably not. even though you're pretty off base saying that was the main part of the deal considering that opened up more moves than the nuggets have ever made in a two year stint. but I wouldn't do that deal because we don't need a ball demanding wing player who isn't either a great distributor or a great defender. I don't think George Karl wants back a sub par distributor with a 35% usage percentage (in other words a ball hog).

Every trade opens up something else... that's getting too deep into it and will go on forever if you look at trades that way.

I.E, the trade opened up Tyson coming to NY by being able to amnesty Billups's contract, trading Felton led to Lin coming to NY. Trade also opened up JR & Kmart coming to NY at ultra bargain prices and opened up NY signing Novak...see where I'm going? It goes on and on and gets silly. Knicks didn't trade for Tyson and all those other guys. They traded for Melo, Billups & Brewer and some other scrubs not worth mentioning.

But the main guys were Chandler, Gallo & Melo, and I know alot of DEN fans might have resentment toward Melo, and its understandable. But to say you wouldn't trade Gallo & Chandler for Melo? Take away that resentment and any logical fan makes that move, especially considering Chandler's injury history. And I'm a HUGE Gallo fan btw... have always loved his game, and he's more of a team player than Melo, but at the end of the day Melo is simply a much better player, even if he falls short of being a true superstar.

No ones going to argue that DEN's FO has done a better job than NY's recently, but that's not what this thread is about. Its about ONE particular trade.

smood999
03-10-2013, 01:44 PM
I think some are focusing on the wrong thing...it seems that focus is which team is better out of the 2 not necessarily what team improved more with the trade, which I think shows who won the trade

The Knicks went from a perennial lottery team 23 wins or so a season...a .500 team before the trade on a downward slope to what they are now

The Nuggets made out very well as they were able to maintain where they were...with that said, the Nuggets have yet to have a higher winning percentage or wins in a season from Melo's last 3 yrs with them which included 1 trip to the WCF...

at the end of the day, the Nuggets have been slightly worse or the same and the Knicks a lot better since the trade

Trueblue2
03-10-2013, 02:10 PM
The knicks won the trade but denver has made better moves since.

D-Leethal
03-10-2013, 02:39 PM
I think both teams can 'win' a trade. This is pretty much a prime example of that. Knicks got what they wanted, Nuggets got what they wanted.

SLY WILLIAMS
03-10-2013, 02:50 PM
I think both teams did fine. No way to say one team won and the other lost for an absolute fact. The Knicks wanted a star player and they got one. The Nuggets tried their best to get a fair return in a trade which is very hard when a player demands a trade.

With that said two things are noteworthy to me.

1. The Nuggets are still owed another first round pick in 2014.
2. The Nuggets are now winning at a clip that is as good or better than any Denver team with Melo on it.

NYK|NYY
03-10-2013, 02:57 PM
Difficult to argue the Nuggets haven't come out on top. Both teams are better, but the Nuggets seem to have improved more so. That said, the Faried/Lawson emergence has more to do with that than not.

THE GIPPER
03-10-2013, 07:17 PM
Well the Nuggets are a better team and a younger team.


















































































But the Knicks won...

setman2000
03-10-2013, 07:44 PM
2010 (Trade Season) Nuggets 50-32, Knicks 42-40. Nuggets were BETTER after the trade and better than the Knicks.

2011 Nuggets 38-28, Knicks 36-30. Nuggets better again.

2012 Nuggets 42-22 still having played more road games than home games. 8 game win streak with 12 in a row at home and 24-6 over their last 30 (that's 80%!). 28-3 Home Court Record! ...and all this without a single all star this year. Knicks 36-30 and won their last 3 without Melo. Nuggets are doing this in the much tougher Western conference and would be the 2 seed in the east.

The Nuggets are a TEAM of unselfish, athletic players who run non-stop and are ALWAYS sharing the ball. No one in Denver that appreciates and understands team basketball misses the ball stopper who wanted the limelight more then wins.

Nuggets won the trade hands down and Melo will never win a championship.

tp13baby
03-10-2013, 08:03 PM
If the Knicks can't make it out of the first round. Denver wins this trade regardless of what they do. The talk about a superstar in the playoffs must have exceptions like Melo. I am a Nugget fan but I am satisfied with this team. Denver can beat any team in a 7 games series. That being said the Knicks should make it out of the first round cause the bottom half of the east is nothing like the West. I would never take Melo back for any trade and I mean it.

Its a win win trade. As a Nuggets fan I don't look at who won the trade cause I know Melo couldn't get out of the first round, this team is the deepest in the West, and in Denver, you bet that's important.

D-Leethal
03-10-2013, 08:09 PM
If the Knicks can't make it out of the first round. Denver wins this trade regardless of what they do. The talk about a superstar in the playoffs must have exceptions like Melo. I am a Nugget fan but I am satisfied with this team. Denver can beat any team in a 7 games series. That being said the Knicks should make it out of the first round cause the bottom half of the east is nothing like the West. I would never take Melo back for any trade and I mean it.

Its a win win trade. As a Nuggets fan I don't look at who won the trade cause I know Melo couldn't get out of the first round, this team is the deepest in the West, and in Denver, you bet that's important.

Except Melo brought your team to the Conference Finals for the first time in 25 years.

BallIsAll
03-10-2013, 08:12 PM
Except Melo brought your team to the Conference Finals for the first time in 25 years.

More or less billups running the offense and dahntay jones defense.

xxplayerxx23
03-10-2013, 08:14 PM
Knicks and nuggets are both getting out of the first round. They are both threats, it's a win-win deal, would love for us to meet in the finals

knickfan33
03-10-2013, 08:15 PM
If the Knicks can't make it out of the first round. Denver wins this trade regardless of what they do. The talk about a superstar in the playoffs must have exceptions like Melo. I am a Nugget fan but I am satisfied with this team. Denver can beat any team in a 7 games series. That being said the Knicks should make it out of the first round cause the bottom half of the east is nothing like the West. I would never take Melo back for any trade and I mean it.

Its a win win trade. As a Nuggets fan I don't look at who won the trade cause I know Melo couldn't get out of the first round, this team is the deepest in the West, and in Denver, you bet that's important.

he went to the WCF.... and other then that was knocked out in the first round like 7 times by the team that went on to win the championship, losing to the dynasty lakers nd spurs over and over again, then last year by the heat. sometimes you gotta look into things a little more then just numbers, it's not like he's the one seed losing to the eight seed every year.

mvb815
03-10-2013, 08:16 PM
More or less billups running the offense and dahntay jones defense.

hahahahaha i would chalk that up under the less catagory

tp13baby
03-10-2013, 08:19 PM
Except Melo brought your team to the Conference Finals for the first time in 25 years.

Billups was our MVP that year. Anyone who watched us can agree with that.

Either was Masai is the best GM in the game. I don't doubt a thing he has done.

broncosfan4eva
03-10-2013, 08:24 PM
the nuggets won, but with Ny being such a big market helps them be able to do a deal like this because Free agents will want to play there Ala Tyson Chandler and etc.

tp13baby
03-10-2013, 08:25 PM
he went to the WCF.... and other then that was knocked out in the first round like 7 times by the team that went on to win the championship, losing to the dynasty lakers nd spurs over and over again, then last year by the heat. sometimes you gotta look into things a little more then just numbers, it's not like he's the one seed losing to the eight seed every year.

But a guy who has shot less than 38 percent in 4 or 8 playoff appearances doesn't help. The Knicks should get out of the first unless they run into a healthy Bulls team. That might be an upset lurking. With Billups he was shooting 46 percent in the playoffs.

tp13baby
03-10-2013, 08:26 PM
the nuggets won, but with Ny being such a big market helps them be able to do a deal like this because Free agents will want to play there Ala Tyson Chandler and etc.

Exactly. We weren't attracting any big time free agents when he was in Denver. It was a good deal for us.

smood999
03-10-2013, 08:39 PM
2010 (Trade Season) Nuggets 50-32, Knicks 42-40. Nuggets were BETTER after the trade and better than the Knicks.

2011 Nuggets 38-28, Knicks 36-30. Nuggets better again.

2012 Nuggets 42-22 still having played more road games than home games. 8 game win streak with 12 in a row at home and 24-6 over their last 30 (that's 80%!). 28-3 Home Court Record! ...and all this without a single all star this year. Knicks 36-30 and won their last 3 without Melo. Nuggets are doing this in the much tougher Western conference and would be the 2 seed in the east.

The Nuggets are a TEAM of unselfish, athletic players who run non-stop and are ALWAYS sharing the ball. No one in Denver that appreciates and understands team basketball misses the ball stopper who wanted the limelight more then wins.

Nuggets won the trade hands down and Melo will never win a championship.

Again, it's not who is the better team...it's what team improved and what team didn't...

Last 3 seasons with Melo...

50-32 .610
54-28 .659 WCF
53-29 .646

Nuggets full seasons without Melo...

38-28 .576
42-22 .656

The notion that the Nuggets improved is false...you can argue that the Nuggets stayed the same or that they are slightly worse, but not that they are better...I think we all know what the Knicks records were prior and now the Knicks are 38-22 .633

smood999
03-10-2013, 08:40 PM
great deal for both teams...but the trade did more for NY than Den

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-10-2013, 09:04 PM
Except Melo brought your team to the Conference Finals for the first time in 25 years.

Well for one, Billups was a huge part of that team as well. And that was also the only time Carmelo made it out of the first round in the 9 times he's made it to the playoffs.

KnicksorBust
03-10-2013, 09:10 PM
More or less billups running the offense and dahntay jones defense.

:laugh: Dahntay Jones didn't even play HALF of Melo's minutes during that playoff run. Look at the lengths some people will go to discredit him. Unreal.

Mr Costanza
03-10-2013, 09:25 PM
Amare's injury will hinder this a bit.

About 500 posts of the same arguments, same back and forth. How many times are you going to bump this thread before you get the answer to your question?

ChitownBears22
03-11-2013, 05:37 AM
Neither team has won a ring. So who cares. No one won the trade, both teams just switched some players and nothing really changed.

Manimal
03-11-2013, 05:38 AM
The team that gets the best player wins the trade?

Do Toronto won the Rudy Gay trade?

Nuggets didn't miss a beat in terms of results while getting younger on cheaper payroll an playing better basketball.

Knicks spent more money than ever amnestying Billups (still have to pay him), paying Chandler not to mention Amare and the Luxury tax. To the point where they can only sign retired players on vet minimums.

All this for one match won in the playoffs. While having the oldest team in the NBA.

Knicks fan are happy with what they are.

And Nuggets fans wouldn't trade for Melo if offered.

So yeah you can claim anyone 'won'. But fact it is the Knicks are stuck with what they have, no flexibility to improve the team.

The Nuggets not only can expect to get better through progression of young players. But also through trade where they are stacked with young players on tradeable contracts that can be turned into bigger pieces if and when available. (Refer to how Danny Ainge put the Big 3 together.)

KnickaBocka.44
03-11-2013, 12:25 PM
The team that gets the best player wins the trade?

Do Toronto won the Rudy Gay trade?

Nuggets didn't miss a beat in terms of results while getting younger on cheaper payroll an playing better basketball.



Knicks spent more money than ever amnestying Billups (still have to pay him), paying Chandler not to mention Amare and the Luxury tax. To the point where they can only sign retired players on vet minimums.

All this for one match won in the playoffs. While having the oldest team in the NBA.

Knicks fan are happy with what they are.

And Nuggets fans wouldn't trade for Melo if offered.

So yeah you can claim anyone 'won'. But fact it is the Knicks are stuck with what they have, no flexibility to improve the team.

The Nuggets not only can expect to get better through progression of young players. But also through trade where they are stacked with young players on tradeable contracts that can be turned into bigger pieces if and when available. (Refer to how Danny Ainge put the Big 3 together.)

Whats funny about that is that you don't even realize that the Nuggets are in the same position as the Knicks, but the Knicks are in a slightly better position.

One thing the Knicks did do right when constructing this team is they made sure that all of the big contracts expire at the same time. So in 2 seasons Melo, Tyson and Amare are all off the books or can be resigned for less money. At that point the Knicks have only Novak and Felton under contract for a whopping 7.7 million, giving them roughly $52 million in cap space in 2015.

The Nuggets, on the other hand, decided to sign McGee, Gallo, Chandler and Lawson to extensions that will pay those 4 players alone about $43 million in the 15-16 season, leaving them with only about $17 million left to improve their roster.

So really, the Nuggets are in a worse place as far as the salary cap and flexibility than the Knicks are.

SLY WILLIAMS
03-11-2013, 12:39 PM
The Denver Knicks won the trade.
The NY Nuggets won the trade.

Manimal
03-11-2013, 01:17 PM
Whats funny about that is that you don't even realize that the Nuggets are in the same position as the Knicks, but the Knicks are in a slightly better position.

One thing the Knicks did do right when constructing this team is they made sure that all of the big contracts expire at the same time. So in 2 seasons Melo, Tyson and Amare are all off the books or can be resigned for less money. At that point the Knicks have only Novak and Felton under contract for a whopping 7.7 million, giving them roughly $52 million in cap space in 2015.

The Nuggets, on the other hand, decided to sign McGee, Gallo, Chandler and Lawson to extensions that will pay those 4 players alone about $43 million in the 15-16 season, leaving them with only about $17 million left to improve their roster.

So really, the Nuggets are in a worse place as far as the salary cap and flexibility than the Knicks are.

Except that all four are on reasonable cap friendly/tradeable contracts.

And don't forget that Denver can swap picks with NY in 2016.

Carmelo, Chandler and Amare are gone in 2015. And when the Knicks stink it up and end up in the lottery in 2016, Denver can swap their first rounder for the Knicks.