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View Full Version : Kyrie's take on Bill Simmons.



C-Style
11-16-2012, 12:34 AM
Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?

Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
No shots fired everybody lol relax just a thought

(i included the 2nd tweet to show there was no malicious intent behind the first one.)


haha if thats how he feels towards bill simmons, i could only imagine how he'd feel about PSD posters.

But these tweets by Kryie do spark an interesting question. Whats is your guys opinion on things like this? Is playing basketball/coaching it required in order to have a respected opinion in basketball? Or is knowledge of the game enough to warrant said respect?

MetroMan
11-16-2012, 12:35 AM
Come to la

KnickaBocka.44
11-16-2012, 12:38 AM
People who only have knowledge of the game don't understand what happens on the floor and how the games moves when you're actually involved in it. Depending on the individual I can respect their knowledge of the game but it still doesn't mean that they fully understand what is happening all of the time.

John Walls Era
11-16-2012, 12:38 AM
Not every expert can be a former player. TBH I would rather listen to BS talk than say a player like JR Smith talk about the NBA.

Arch Stanton
11-16-2012, 12:46 AM
Bill Simmons = Skip Bayless (in reverse). Both entertaining and both good at chucking "BS" in highlighted forums.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-16-2012, 12:51 AM
Bill Simmons sounds like a 8th grade schoolgirl when he talks.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 12:52 AM
I find it funny that any player thinks that someone who was not able to reach that level, despite spending more time then that player ever did researching the game, thinks the analysts opinion is not valid.

The best minds in basketball many times are short, fat, bald dudes who studied the sport as an education. Not everyone can be 6 foot whatever, with ridiculous athletic ability.

Robbw241
11-16-2012, 12:57 AM
Kyrie>>>>>>

bucketss
11-16-2012, 12:59 AM
whos bill simmons again is he the stat nerd or is that hollinger?

Arch Stanton
11-16-2012, 01:05 AM
I find it funny that any player thinks that someone who was not able to reach that level, despite spending more time then that player ever did researching the game, thinks the analysts opinion is not valid.

The best minds in basketball many times are short, fat, bald dudes who studied the sport as an education. Not everyone can be 6 foot whatever, with ridiculous athletic ability.

Yes that's all and good when your referring to the likes of Hollinger who doesn't play into homerism and journalistic storytelling like Simmons.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 01:06 AM
Yes that's all and good when your referring to the likes of Hollinger who doesn't play into homerism and journalistic storytelling like Simmons.

point stands. Name me the best GM's in the game. Many of them never got beyond playing in some tiny college, if that.

nytunnelvision
11-16-2012, 01:11 AM
Simmons gushes about Kyrie, too bad Kyrie feels that way. How come no comment on Wilbon?

CostanzaNumba0
11-16-2012, 01:12 AM
point stands. Name me the best GM's in the game. Many of them never got beyond playing in some tiny college, if that.

That Jerry West gm guy was pretty good wasn't he? What about Danny Ainge or Pat Reilly? Chris Mullin? Kiki? Nonsense.

yanksbucs
11-16-2012, 01:13 AM
I find it funny that any player thinks that someone who was not able to reach that level, despite spending more time then that player ever did researching the game, thinks the analysts opinion is not valid.

The best minds in basketball many times are short, fat, bald dudes who studied the sport as an education. Not everyone can be 6 foot whatever, with ridiculous athletic ability.

Exactly....Bill Simmons is also really awesome, Grantland is solid.

PS: I personally believe players look pretty stupid when they believe you needed to play in the league to evaluate anything.

Quinnsanity
11-16-2012, 01:13 AM
Bill Simmons is the ultimate PSD poster. If you don't respect his opinion on basketball than you are essentially saying that nobody on earth who hasn't either played or coached in the NBA knows the game. That's BS (pun not intended). Simmons knows his ****.

nytunnelvision
11-16-2012, 01:13 AM
Simmons gushes about Kyrie, too bad Kyrie feels that way. How come no comment on Wilbon?

Or Chris Broussard (from last year's nba countdown)? There's a bunch of examples Kyrie could have picked, I think I know why he decided to pick on Simmons, albeit it mite have been a subconscious choice...

Vinny642
11-16-2012, 01:14 AM
Hey:)

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 01:17 AM
That Jerry West gm guy was pretty good wasn't he? What about Danny Ainge or Pat Reilly? Chris Mullin? Kiki? Nonsense.

should I bring up the overwhelming failures to counter your point, or do you get it yet?

tredigs
11-16-2012, 01:24 AM
Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?

Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
No shots fired everybody lol relax just a thought

(i included the 2nd tweet to show there was no malicious intent behind the first one.)


haha if thats how he feels towards bill simmons, i could only imagine how he'd feel about PSD posters.

But these tweets by Kryie do spark an interesting question. Whats is your guys opinion on things like this? Is playing basketball/coaching it required in order to have a respected opinion in basketball? Or is knowledge of the game enough to warrant said respect?

Imo you learn a TON about the game from watching/dissecting it, but unless you have years of experience on the court or the field, you're not going to truly get it or understand why it is some players play the way they do. You could be great if you only played, OR only watched - but to me you can't reach the apex of understanding unless you did/do both.

Arch Stanton
11-16-2012, 01:26 AM
point stands. Name me the best GM's in the game. Many of them never got beyond playing in some tiny college, if that.

Is Bill Simmons a GM or a writer?
And to the other posters note, you can know your stuff but still have an agenda. Simmons is an entertainer like SAS or SB.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 01:30 AM
Is Bill Simmons a GM or a writer?
And to the other posters note, you can know your stuff but still have an agenda. Simmons is an entertainer like SAS or SB.

Never said otherwise. The best basketball minds in the NBA are a mix, MANY of them never touching the NBA court. This is a fact, and why I rarely take into account what ex-players say. I mean, the GOAT ran a dysfunctional franchise, and wouldn't know talent if it landed on his face.

Mr_Jones
11-16-2012, 01:31 AM
I'm a Lakers and penis fan, but I must say that I like Bill Simmons. He's a Celtic fan, but he does give good analysis nonetheless.

Arch Stanton
11-16-2012, 01:32 AM
Never said otherwise. The best basketball minds in the NBA are a mix, MANY of them never touching the NBA court. This is a fact, and why I rarely take into account what ex-players say. I mean, the GOAT ran a dysfunctional franchise, and wouldn't know talent if it landed on his face.

I agree.

topdog
11-16-2012, 01:35 AM
PS: I personally believe players look pretty stupid when they believe you needed to play in the league to evaluate anything.

Half the players you hear speak can't seem to put together a competent thought (and I'm not talking about in-game interviews and that sort of deal). This makes me think of Jalen Rose's comments back when he got upset about Kwame Brown's ranking or some pointlessness.

I'm not a BS fan though. Less than a third of what he writes actually pertains to basketball.

CostanzaNumba0
11-16-2012, 01:40 AM
should I bring up the overwhelming failures to counter your point, or do you get it yet?

Ex NBA people are just as good if not better than the fat bald guys you mentioned at finding nba talent. There are outliers in every data set. Stop twisting your original comment to better fit your later narrative.

Sadds The Gr8
11-16-2012, 01:47 AM
ouch...

I like Simmons, but I don't know if I can take him seriously enough to be an analyst. I don't think he can break down the game for the viewers in a way like Kenny Smith or even Barkley does. He should probably be in the host role instead of analyst.

AWC713
11-16-2012, 01:50 AM
simmons would d up kyrie

Mr_Jones
11-16-2012, 02:01 AM
Hey:)

Hey :):)

ThunderousDemon
11-16-2012, 02:04 AM
i find it funny that any player thinks that someone who was not able to reach that level, despite spending more time then that player ever did researching the game, thinks the analysts opinion is not valid.

The best minds in basketball many times are short, fat, bald dudes who studied the sport as an education. Not everyone can be 6 foot whatever, with ridiculous athletic ability.

Sturtistics!

Steelers23_06
11-16-2012, 02:08 AM
Sam presti just play d2 ball...just a name to throw out there off the top of my head and he's one of the best gm's in the game

KaganRS
11-16-2012, 02:12 AM
Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?

Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
No shots fired everybody lol relax just a thought

(i included the 2nd tweet to show there was no malicious intent behind the first one.)



No shots fired ? Malicious intent or not, it was a disrespectful thing to say and especially to someone who promotes you.

I'm not sure about other people , but I like reading Bill Simmons articles - he's funny, personal, bias to a certain extent, and creative.

He writes for the fans, as a fan - and as a player Kyrie Irving, saying that he "never played or coached a game" implying that he has no clue about basketball- pretty much disses 90% of his viewing audience.

So way to go Kyrie - bite the hand that feeds.

Greedy22
11-16-2012, 02:12 AM
I love Uncle Drew, but not digging the hate on Simmons. Bill is one of the few whose knowledge I respect, plus Grantland is fantastic.

CostanzaNumba0
11-16-2012, 02:13 AM
Sam presti just play d2 ball...just a name to throw out there off the top of my head and he's one of the best gm's in the game

Reilly, West, Bird, Ainge, Mullins

Greedy22
11-16-2012, 02:15 AM
simmons would d up kyrie

:laugh2:

This would be awesome to see.

Greedy22
11-16-2012, 02:16 AM
Reilly, West, Bird, Ainge, Mullins

Mullins was pretty meh as a GM to put it nicely.

asandhu23
11-16-2012, 02:23 AM
I find it funny that any player thinks that someone who was not able to reach that level, despite spending more time then that player ever did researching the game, thinks the analysts opinion is not valid.

The best minds in basketball many times are short, fat, bald dudes who studied the sport as an education. Not everyone can be 6 foot whatever, with ridiculous athletic ability.

I have seen you and plenty of other people analyze a player using numbers and numbers alone. This is what I think Kyrie is focusing on. These experts think statistics is all there is to a sport.

mightybosstone
11-16-2012, 02:33 AM
Not all players can coach, not all coaches could play and not all journalists or analysts could do either. But that doesn't make Simmons or any other analyst any less relevant. Does John Hollinger look like an athlete to anybody? And if you had to have someone explain the game of basketball to you, would you rather pick guys like Simmons or Hollinger or someone like Karl Malone who is the intellectual equivalent of a peanut?

I rest my case. Being an expert doesn't make you an athlete, but being an athlete certainly doesn't make you an expert.

mightybosstone
11-16-2012, 02:35 AM
I have seen you and plenty of other people analyze a player using numbers and numbers alone. This is what I think Kyrie is focusing on. These experts think statistics is all there is to a sport.

Lol. If you have ever read anything that Simmons has written about the NBA, you would realize how ridiculous this post is. Pick up the Big Book of Basketball and give it a shot, man. It's one of the most informative, readable and entertaining books you'll ever read. And when you're done reading it, you'll feel like you've seen every important NBA game since the 60s.

bholly
11-16-2012, 02:35 AM
I'm a Lakers and penis fan, but I must say that I like Bill Simmons. He's a Celtic fan, but he does give good analysis nonetheless.

Wait, what? I don't understand the relevance of that second bit.

asandhu23
11-16-2012, 02:36 AM
Not all players can coach, not all coaches could play and not all journalists or analysts could do either. But that doesn't make Simmons or any other analyst any less relevant. Does John Hollinger look like an athlete to anybody? And if you had to have someone explain the game of basketball to you, would you rather pick guys like Simmons or Hollinger or someone like Karl Malone who is the intellectual equivalent of a peanut?

I rest my case. Being an expert doesn't make you an athlete, but being an athlete certainly doesn't make you an expert.


Karl Malone... because its mother****ing Karl Malone. :D

asandhu23
11-16-2012, 02:38 AM
Lol. If you have ever read anything that Simmons has written about the NBA, you would realize how ridiculous this post is. Pick up the Big Book of Basketball and give it a shot, man. It's one of the most informative, readable and entertaining books you'll ever read. And when you're done reading it, you'll feel like you've seen every important NBA game since the 60s.

I am not talking about Bill Simmons.

CavsYanksDuke
11-16-2012, 02:40 AM
Naismith even said the game was not supposed to be coached.

P Harvy
11-16-2012, 02:42 AM
I actually like Simmons and completely disagree with Kryie.

There are plenty of people knowledgeable about the game of basketball that haven't coached or played at the professional level.

By the way Bill Simmons probably played ball when he was a kid. I mean that is considered playing the game. You don't need to step on a D1 court or a professional stage and play the game to understand the game. Pretty dumb comment by Kryie.

mightybosstone
11-16-2012, 02:48 AM
Karl Malone... because its mother****ing Karl Malone. :D
I hate Karl Malone. There are few professional athletes I can honestly say that about, but with him, it's true. If I were driving down a highway and it was late at night and Malone was on the side of the ride trying to hitch a ride, it would take every ounce of strength in my body to not run him down and hide the body in a ditch.

I am not talking about Bill Simmons.
You said "these experts". Given that this is a Bill Simmons thread specifically, it certainly read as if you were including him with that group.

mightybosstone
11-16-2012, 02:51 AM
I actually like Simmons and completely disagree with Kryie.

There are plenty of people knowledgeable about the game of basketball that haven't coached or played at the professional level.

By the way Bill Simmons probably played ball when he was a kid. I mean that is considered playing the game. You don't need to step on a D1 court or a professional stage and play the game to understand the game. Pretty dumb comment by Kryie.

And it doesn't take a professional athlete or a coach to watch a game and understand how it works. I can watch a game and tell what players would best execute a pick and roll, which offenses I would play a zone or a man defense against or how to maximize your spacing on offense. That **** isn't rocket science. Hell, I watch high school coaches who run a lot of the same stuff that college and professional coaches do.

hgtiger32
11-16-2012, 02:58 AM
Simmons knows his NBA. That's a fact.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 03:00 AM
Ex NBA people are just as good if not better than the fat bald guys you mentioned at finding nba talent. There are outliers in every data set. Stop twisting your original comment to better fit your later narrative.

Never twisted it. My point is, taking ex-players words as a gospel is laughable, considering many of the best minds in the NBA never sniffed an NBA game.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 03:00 AM
I have seen you and plenty of other people analyze a player using numbers and numbers alone. This is what I think Kyrie is focusing on. These experts think statistics is all there is to a sport.

Since when are numbers the way to analyze? Don't let your Monta arguments cloud your mind.

jam
11-16-2012, 03:01 AM
It's unclear to me how a simpleton like chris broussard, or how a degenerate like stephen a become anointed as analysts.

The simplest explanation is that they are politically connected and kiss a lot of a--.

It really doesn't matter who becomes an analyst: it's just a stupid child's game and we need to keep things in perspective.


Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?

Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
No shots fired everybody lol relax just a thought

(i included the 2nd tweet to show there was no malicious intent behind the first one.)


haha if thats how he feels towards bill simmons, i could only imagine how he'd feel about PSD posters.

But these tweets by Kryie do spark an interesting question. Whats is your guys opinion on things like this? Is playing basketball/coaching it required in order to have a respected opinion in basketball? Or is knowledge of the game enough to warrant said respect?

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 03:03 AM
I find it utterly hilarious that so many attack stat nerds for their numbers, without realizing they watch more basketball than anyone.

Greedy22
11-16-2012, 03:15 AM
Lol. If you have ever read anything that Simmons has written about the NBA, you would realize how ridiculous this post is. Pick up the Big Book of Basketball and give it a shot, man. It's one of the most informative, readable and entertaining books you'll ever read. And when you're done reading it, you'll feel like you've seen every important NBA game since the 60s.


Where can I find said book? I've heard nothing, but great things about it.

sunsfan88
11-16-2012, 03:17 AM
How do you know Kyrie is talking about Simmons?

Greedy22
11-16-2012, 03:17 AM
And it doesn't take a professional athlete or a coach to watch a game and understand how it works. I can watch a game and tell what players would best execute a pick and roll, which offenses I would play a zone or a man defense against or how to maximize your spacing on offense. That **** isn't rocket science. Hell, I watch high school coaches who run a lot of the same stuff that college and professional coaches do.

**** my senior year of high school we ran the triangle all the way to a championship lol.

Baller1
11-16-2012, 03:28 AM
One of my favorite players dissing one of my favorite analysts. Shut up Kyrie, haha.

John Walls Era
11-16-2012, 03:45 AM
i'm a lakers and penis fan, but i must say that i like bill simmons. He's a celtic fan, but he does give good analysis nonetheless.

wtf.

John Walls Era
11-16-2012, 03:47 AM
He could be talking about Wilbon. Then I would agree with him.

Rain City
11-16-2012, 03:58 AM
i think kyrie's point is simmons is on tv and called an "expert" when there are prolly 10s of thousands NBA fans across the country would have as valid of an opinion

and simmons' opinion will never be valued in the same respect as NBA (alum) analysts.

Rain City
11-16-2012, 03:59 AM
He could be talking about Wilbon. Then I would agree with him.

x2

sammyvine
11-16-2012, 05:46 AM
So is Skip Bayless okay to slam players like arron rodgers and make nicknames guys like Westbrook and Lebron when he hasn't done anything in the nba or nfl?

Ebbs
11-16-2012, 06:13 AM
Not every expert can be a former player. TBH I would rather listen to BS talk than say a player like JR Smith talk about the NBA.

This.

JasonJohnHorn
11-16-2012, 08:45 AM
I don't think you need to have coached or player, but it helps. That said, some fomrer players come up with the worst analysis I've heard. Coaches are usually a little better.

Chronz
11-16-2012, 11:13 AM
The irony is that Kyrie is actually showing how little of the game he actually knows with this comment. Basketball isn't Rocket science, you dont need to be gifted genetically to understand the game, its why some of the greatest minds we have ever had on the game came from short white dudes or guys who werent the games best players. We all have our specialties and deficiencies. You can bring up any number of examples to back it up, but I cant deny that the people who would know the most are those that both studied and played the game. Still gotta back up your opinion tho, even geniuses can be wrong.



PS Given how people say the NBA changed over the decades, wouldn't that mean that former players are also new to the CURRENT NBA product?

Chronz
11-16-2012, 11:17 AM
Karl Malone... because its mother****ing Karl Malone. :D

You better hide yo kids (unless they are over 18 and not Mexican)

Chronz
11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Imo you learn a TON about the game from watching/dissecting it, but unless you have years of experience on the court or the field, you're not going to truly get it or understand why it is some players play the way they do. You could be great if you only played, OR only watched - but to me you can't reach the apex of understanding unless you did/do both.

True

Studying the game = Ton of Knowledge

Playing the game = cherry on top

JiffyMix88
11-16-2012, 11:30 AM
I don't even watch espn anymore cause i get tired of hearing people never play the game give their opinions...I can go to the corner store and get opinions from people who have never played.

Corey
11-16-2012, 11:44 AM
Kyrie>>>>>>

:nod:

See my usertitle.

Iggz53
11-16-2012, 12:18 PM
Well you definitely have to have played at some competitive level, or done a ****ton of research about on-court dynamics and sets. In BS's case, he absolutely did the latter and consequently, he's imo one of the best NBA analysts you'll find. Yes, his homerism is annoying and straight up weird alot of times, but he's pretty damn good otherwise.

ManRam
11-16-2012, 12:25 PM
Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?

Always one of the stupidest things anyone can say.

b@llhog24
11-16-2012, 12:30 PM
I don't see Bill Simmons name anywhere in there.

MintBerryCrunch
11-16-2012, 12:34 PM
Bill Simmons is sooo biased . He's not really a reporter, so he's not expected to be the objective guy that Kyrie, and others, may want him to be.

Bill Simmons is a fan, but a knowledgable one at that.

daboywonder2002
11-16-2012, 06:48 PM
when you watch nba tv, do matt weiner, ernie johnson or vince celini give their opinions?? no. their job is to host the show and make sure everything runs smoothly. now every guy on nba tvs panel has either played or coached the game. (bones barry, dennis scott, steve smith, kenny smith, sam mitchell). when these guys talk, u listen. because they have been in those trenches. if you never played any type of college or pro ball, u have no room to talk. stick to being a fan only. not getitng paid to have an opinion on the nba .if thats the case, everyone here who never played should have a job talking bball

PleaseBeNice
11-16-2012, 07:37 PM
Simmons.... I have no nice words for him

Hawkeye15
11-16-2012, 08:01 PM
True

Studying the game = Ton of Knowledge

Playing the game = cherry on top

that is very true. And you don't need to play it to the NBA level, even being a college player gives you enough floor time, if you really are a student of the game.