PDA

View Full Version : Are the Red Sox the worst team in the AL East???



Ty Fast
11-14-2012, 01:28 PM
I didnt think I would see the day but it looks like they are for now. What do you think?

keymax
11-14-2012, 01:29 PM
The Red Sox have tons of money to spend. Let's wait until spring training.

rcs15
11-14-2012, 01:29 PM
Depends what they do in FA. Obviously right now they suck bad

Pinstripe pride
11-14-2012, 01:34 PM
at this moment, yes.

Boston-Born
11-14-2012, 01:36 PM
Yup

ahoda
11-14-2012, 01:37 PM
I think the O's fall back to earth and finish last

chicagocubsfan
11-14-2012, 01:38 PM
Why wouldn't they be? The Orioles and Yanks made the playoffs, the Rays almost made it, and the Blue Jays just got significantly better.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Proudly.

Theo told the owners to scale back back before '09. They didn't listen. Just because you have money it doesn't mean you spend it.

Flush out the rest of the trash this year. Do not trade off the farm (unless it's for a Stanton sort of player). Do not indulge in any long term deals. 2015-2020 everything should be back to normal.

Jays are playing for 2013-2015 now. Afterwards? Hard to say, but I wouldn't bet on them.

jim51990
11-14-2012, 01:50 PM
Proudly.

Theo told the owners to scale back back before '09. They didn't listen. Just because you have money it doesn't mean you spend it.

Flush out the rest of the trash this year. Do not trade off the farm (unless it's for a Stanton sort of player). Do not indulge in any long term deals. 2015-2020 everything should be back to normal.

Jays are playing for 2013-2015 now. Afterwards? Hard to say, but I wouldn't bet on them.

well put
though i think you might be giving theo a little to much credit
but i get what you mean with his disapproval of alot of the moves made but the rest is 100% accurate

miller74
11-14-2012, 01:52 PM
According to last years standings and yesterdays trade, id say yes.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 02:06 PM
Proudly.

Theo told the owners to scale back back before '09. They didn't listen. Just because you have money it doesn't mean you spend it.

Flush out the rest of the trash this year. Do not trade off the farm (unless it's for a Stanton sort of player). Do not indulge in any long term deals. 2015-2020 everything should be back to normal.

Jays are playing for 2013-2015 now. Afterwards? Hard to say, but I wouldn't bet on them.

Preach on brother.....The truth will set us free

Bo Sox Fan
11-14-2012, 02:08 PM
There's no question we're set in the basement for 1 more season but, collect another top 10, maybe top 5 draft pick this season and keep loading up the farm.

In 2 years when our prospect's start to blossom at the Major League level, we can start spending in free agency again when the players available are a hell of alot more intriguing than they are this offseason (and next offseason for that matter)

2015 FA class = Felix Hernandez, we'll take him!

ahoda
11-14-2012, 02:11 PM
There's no question we're set in the basement for 1 more season but, collect another top 10, maybe top 5 draft pick this season and keep loading up the farm.

In 2 years when our prospect's start to blossom at the Major League level, we can start spending in free agency again when the players available are a hell of alot more intriguing than they are this offseason (and next offseason for that matter)

2015 FA class = Felix Hernandez, we'll take him!

How has that thinking helped the Royals, Pirates, Astros, and Mariners? :eyebrow:

Nomar
11-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Oh hell yeah

mtf
11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
Jays are playing for 2013-2015 now. Afterwards? Hard to say, but I wouldn't bet on them.

Why not? Anthony Gose, Travis D'Arnaud, Noah Syndergaard are all the top 3 guys in the system and they haven't gone anywhere. That's not even taking into account that Drew Hutchison and Brett Lawrie are still here. The future still looks pretty bright (to me at least), especially considering the apparent willingness to back the team with a salary.

I'm not making any proclamations like best team ever, like Boston did in 2010, but I don't see why the long-term future is in shambles now with this deal.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
How has that thinking helped the Royals, Pirates, Astros, and Mariners? :eyebrow:

Because we have real money - well beyond the first 3 teams you listed, and we won't be dealing off the young guys because we can't sign them (if they are worth signing that is).

ManRam
11-14-2012, 02:17 PM
As of right now, absolutely...and as a Sox fan I'm happy to admit it. I hope they don't just throw money around to make that change.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 02:22 PM
How has that thinking helped the Royals, Pirates, Astros, and Mariners? :eyebrow:

The Royals, Pirates, Astros and Mariners dont have the bankroll to keep their young players once they develop them. They become good and then test Free Agency to cash in. These teams also have to rely exclusively on developing a team. What was suggested for the RedSox was that once their prospects start to bloom that they start spending again in Free Agency to fill their remaining holes.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 02:29 PM
I'm not making any proclamations like best team ever, like Boston did in 2010, but I don't see why the long-term future is in shambles now with this deal.

You guys just absolutely rapped Miami but you still cant help yourself but to be butthurt against Sox fans. Nobody said your future is in shambles. The reality that most people are ignoring is that you took on a lot of money in that deal which could hurt in 3 years when a guy like Reyes is constantly hurt or starts to decline.

benzni
11-14-2012, 02:32 PM
as of now yes but its a long season

avrpatsfan
11-14-2012, 02:37 PM
For now, yes.

AI
11-14-2012, 02:38 PM
How has that thinking helped the Royals, Pirates, Astros, and Mariners? :eyebrow:

None of those teams compares to Boston when it comes to producing major league talent, few teams do. Boston has a track record of being able to churn out talent from the farm. Plus I didn't even mention that we have money.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/building-through-the-draft-best-of-the-best/

Enjoy the read. ;)

Jeffy25
11-14-2012, 02:39 PM
The off-season isn't over yet, and the O's are pretty bad.


We have to wait and see until the off-season is over

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 02:48 PM
You guys just absolutely rapped Miami but you still cant help yourself but to be butthurt against Sox fans. Nobody said your future is in shambles. The reality that most people are ignoring is that you took on a lot of money in that deal which could hurt in 3 years when a guy like Reyes is constantly hurt or starts to decline.

Who would be buthurt towards the last Place team in the AL east? The Reyes contract could hurt, but one over priced contract isn't the end of the world that some are making it out to be.

papipapsmanny
11-14-2012, 02:58 PM
hell yea we are....but

We have tons of money to spend, a very good farm, and a top 10 draft pick.

honestly hope we sign some 2-3 year deals and let some kids develop, probably be meh next year, better in 2014 and damn good in 2015. Unless BC gets real creative

Super.
11-14-2012, 03:01 PM
Guys guys

we suck

scottythegreat1
11-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Boston has the financial resources to sign players, and enough holes to upgrade to fill those holes...Id say theyre going to make their moves, and Im going to answer that question in Mid-January....Its safe to say that TODAY, they are the worst team in the AL East....they need to do something, and I know they will.

SenorGato
11-14-2012, 03:05 PM
Who would be buthurt towards the last Place team in the AL east? The Reyes contract could hurt, but one over priced contract isn't the end of the world that some are making it out to be.

It is the end of their hopes to win the League Efficiency Award handed out to the most efficient spending team in the league.

Pinstripe pride
11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
hell yea we are....but

We have tons of money to spend, a very good farm, and a top 10 draft pick.

honestly hope we sign some 2-3 year deals and let some kids develop, probably be meh next year, better in 2014 and damn good in 2015. Unless BC gets real creative

not really all that much to spend it on this offseaosn though which is the problem

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 03:13 PM
It is the end of their hopes to win the League Efficiency Award handed out to the most efficient spending team in the league.

Meh, I think this team always invisioned spending at the right time. Reyes is going to be our only really expensive player. This deal doesn't handicap us a much as some people think it will.

mtf
11-14-2012, 03:15 PM
You guys just absolutely rapped Miami but you still cant help yourself but to be butthurt against Sox fans. Nobody said your future is in shambles. The reality that most people are ignoring is that you took on a lot of money in that deal which could hurt in 3 years when a guy like Reyes is constantly hurt or starts to decline.

I was merely asking a specific Boston Red Sox fan why it is his contention that the Toronto Blue Jays will only have a 3 year window (2013-2015) to compete. I'm not sure why that's an unreasonable question for me to ask.

I understand that Jose Bautista is already 32 years old, so optimistically he may only have 3 good years left, and Josh Johnson only has 1 year remaining before he becomes a free agent. However, as I previously said, they still have a very young core of Brett Lawrie, Travis D'Arnaud, Anthony Gose, Drew Hutchison, Noah Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez and several others of varying significance to follow.

In addition, if Bautista, Johnson and/or other prominent players are no longer members of the team in coming years, the part of the payroll that they consume will be freed up and hopefully used to pursue other equally prominent players.

Your use of words like rape and butthurt are very graphic and mature, but as a Jays fan I'm currently very excited about the team and not in any way upset about the current situation.

ahoda
11-14-2012, 03:18 PM
The Royals, Pirates, Astros and Mariners dont have the bankroll to keep their young players once they develop them. They become good and then test Free Agency to cash in. These teams also have to rely exclusively on developing a team. What was suggested for the RedSox was that once their prospects start to bloom that they start spending again in Free Agency to fill their remaining holes.

That is true, but more prospects flop then succeed so you have to build a team from with in and through FA.

ahoda
11-14-2012, 03:20 PM
None of those teams compares to Boston when it comes to producing major league talent, few teams do. Boston has a track record of being able to churn out talent from the farm. Plus I didn't even mention that we have money.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/building-through-the-draft-best-of-the-best/

Enjoy the read. ;)

Irrelevant now with the new CBA. Still a pretty good read. 4 of those teams were drafting high for a few years, but the Red Sox weren't so you have to give them their props.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 03:22 PM
Who would be buthurt towards the last Place team in the AL east? The Reyes contract could hurt, but one over priced contract isn't the end of the world that some are making it out to be.

Yeah it really sucks to have your first losing season in 15 years and get stuck with a bunch of prospects ready to crack the MLB and bags full of money to spend once you find the right guy.

OneManIsNoMan
11-14-2012, 03:23 PM
Who would be buthurt towards the last Place team in the AL east? The Reyes contract could hurt, but one over priced contract isn't the end of the world that some are making it out to be.

The season has started, hell the off-season hasn't truly started and you're already writing the Sox off as a last place team. They will probably struggle and wont compete for a division but they wont be a cake walk either.

As far as what Toronto got, it was a good haul but lets remember...

- Reyes contract is over priced (your words)

- Johnson is in the final year of his deal and will be a huge target next OS. Unless the Jays have a very good performance JJ probably walk to the highest bidder (the Yankees)

- Buehrle is still owed $48 million IIRC but at 33 yrs old you'd expect a decline to start at some point.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 03:27 PM
I was merely asking a specific Boston Red Sox fan why it is his contention that the Toronto Blue Jays will only have a 3 year window (2013-2015) to compete. I'm not sure why that's an unreasonable question for me to ask.

I understand that Jose Bautista is already 32 years old, so optimistically he may only have 3 good years left, and Josh Johnson only has 1 year remaining before he becomes a free agent. However, as I previously said, they still have a very young core of Brett Lawrie, Travis D'Arnaud, Anthony Gose, Drew Hutchison, Noah Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez and several others of varying significance to follow.

In addition, if Bautista, Johnson and/or other prominent players are no longer members of the team in coming years, the part of the payroll that they consume will be freed up and hopefully used to pursue other equally prominent players.

Your use of words like rape and butthurt are very graphic and mature, but as a Jays fan I'm currently very excited about the team and not in any way upset about the current situation.

No one said you should be. If I was a Jays fan I would be excited too cause it s your first real chance in years to contend. Although I am a Sox fan I live in Toronto so I hope they are able to contend. The issue is that until this trade your ownership has never really shown a willingness to take on big contracts long term or carry a big payroll. Therefore it is only reasonable to question whether they will continue to bring in the big named talent once the contracts aquired in this trade expire or those player begin to decline.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 03:30 PM
That is true, but more prospects flop then succeed so you have to build a team from with in and through FA.

The difference is that Boston can do that. I dont think there is any reasonable RedSox fan out there that believes our system is going to pump out a quality starter at all 9 positions and a pitching staff

NYYCowboys
11-14-2012, 03:35 PM
Right now without a question they are.

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 03:42 PM
The season has started, hell the off-season hasn't truly started and you're already writing the Sox off as a last place team. They will probably struggle and wont compete for a division but they wont be a cake walk either.

As far as what Toronto got, it was a good haul but lets remember...

- Reyes contract is over priced (your words)

- Johnson is in the final year of his deal and will be a huge target next OS. Unless the Jays have a very good performance JJ probably walk to the highest bidder (the Yankees)

- Buehrle is still owed $48 million IIRC but at 33 yrs old you'd expect a decline to start at some point.


They are the reigning 5th place team. And way to point out all the negative parts of deal. Who's butthurt again?

SACNYY
11-14-2012, 03:43 PM
Ya, easily.

Jeffy25
11-14-2012, 03:44 PM
That is true, but more prospects flop then succeed so you have to build a team from with in and through FA.

Most philosphies show that you should be putting the final pieces of your team together in FA and have the majority of your roster assembled through trades and prospects.

What's funny though, is the Tigers are one of the only teams that hasn't had to rely on prospects for a good organization. Other than Verlander, you haven't had a lot of prospects do much for you guys that has turned into a successful team.

Now Fister, Miggy, Scherezer, Jackson, etc were all traded for by moving prospects, but your team has not really relied on the draft to build your team, but the Tigers are more so the exception, not the rule.

Most teams are successful because of a strong farm system, and then they put the final pieces together through free agency.

mtf
11-14-2012, 03:46 PM
No one said you should be. If I was a Jays fan I would be excited too cause it s your first real chance in years to contend. Although I am a Sox fan I live in Toronto so I hope they are able to contend. The issue is that until this trade your ownership has never really shown a willingness to take on big contracts long term or carry a big payroll. Therefore it is only reasonable to question whether they will continue to bring in the big named talent once the contracts aquired in this trade expire or those player begin to decline.

I agree 100% with the highlighted section. I've been a critic of Rogers for years and I still have a cynical feeling that the only reason they're spending is because they felt like they had to given public perception, not the state of the team.

However, for the first time since the World Series years, 2 decades ago, it finally feels like the Jays are making significant moves and not just treading water in the division. As a fan, it would be unfair to assume commitment from ownership will regress.

For now, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt but understand why some others may not rush to do the same.

Kelly Gruber
11-14-2012, 03:56 PM
Jays added some pieces to a decent core, these contracts aren't going to hurt them at all, they've always said they'd spend when the time is right and the time is now. Kept their top prospects (d'Arnaud/Sanchez) and still have a lot of talent in A leagues. People seem to really want to spin this as a negative for the Jays, but I really don't see it. They'll be a player next year.

Still think the Red Sox have some noise to make yet this offseason and an awful lot went right for the Orioles last year. Will be a fun year in the AL East.

OneManIsNoMan
11-14-2012, 04:00 PM
They are the reigning 5th place team. And way to point out all the negative parts of deal. Who's butthurt again?

I'm not "butt-hurt" at all lol, in fact I said you guys got a good haul (guess you missed that part). As far as the negativity goes it's reality and part of the reason why Bags gave the window he did. There are pros and cons to every trade. We already know what the pros are and it's worth noting that some of the "cons" are, considering the impact they could have.

Scully in 2012
11-14-2012, 04:02 PM
Close thread based on ridiculous title and principle.

ahoda
11-14-2012, 04:47 PM
Most philosphies show that you should be putting the final pieces of your team together in FA and have the majority of your roster assembled through trades and prospects.

What's funny though, is the Tigers are one of the only teams that hasn't had to rely on prospects for a good organization. Other than Verlander, you haven't had a lot of prospects do much for you guys that has turned into a successful team.

Now Fister, Miggy, Scherezer, Jackson, etc were all traded for by moving prospects, but your team has not really relied on the draft to build your team, but the Tigers are more so the exception, not the rule.

Most teams are successful because of a strong farm system, and then they put the final pieces together through free agency.


Very true, but it also helps when the Marlins give you Miguel Cabrera as he enters his prime. The Tigers are also a very good drafting team and using the prospects to net them good pieces.

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 04:47 PM
Close thread based on ridiculous title and principle.

Agreed

OneManIsNoMan
11-14-2012, 04:53 PM
I like how the Red Sox fans are all "proud" to be in this position. Denial much?

It's not denial at all lol. The Sox are finally going back to the plans they used to win titles in 2004 & 2007. Build from the farm and don't hand out ridiculous contracts for players not in their prime. If you ask any Sox fan would you rather be the worst team in the AL East or Win a World Series 10/10 would say world series.

AI
11-14-2012, 04:56 PM
I like how the Red Sox fans are all "proud" to be in this position. Denial much?

I'm happy our GM saw we were going nowhere and hit the reset button at the right time. Doesn't have anything to do with "denial".

papipapsmanny
11-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Here is my thing.

The Sox have 60 million on the books Pre arb for 2013, around 45 million I believer in 2014, and (this will blow some minds), 12.7 million in guaranteed money (again pre-arb) for 2015.

You have Xander Boagerts, Matt Barnes, Jackey Bradley Jr., Allen Webster, and Bryce Brentz all probably top 100 prospects (Brentz will be in some and out of some), and all of them are going to be at AA/AAA this upcoming season

Then Rubby De La Rosa who is going to be 24 and from what from what scouts/Dodgers fans say he has 1-2 SP Potential.

Then you got guys already on the Roster with a lot of promise Doubront, Middlebrooks, Tazawa, and Lavarnway.

Then you got your other pieces of the team who could or could not be a part of that future in Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, and Ellsbury. (maybe Salty, big maybe).

Then you got guys who have 2 years or less for sure, Lackey and Ortiz, and all the other lesser known fodder.

So basically the team has a lot of talent between AA and players that have just gotten into the league (1-2 seasons in). They have a lot of money to spend (whether that, 2014, 2015, etc). And they have a lot of talented depth in the lower levels A+ and lower.

That is why Red Sox fans think we will be back by 2014 with a very optimistic view of 2015 and beyond

papipapsmanny
11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
I'm happy our GM saw we were going nowhere and hit the reset button at the right time. Doesn't have anything to do with "denial".

pretty sure he was looking for the word realistic

Farsight
11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
I think Boston is the worse team, but i dont expect Baltimore to repeat there 2012 performance. As i stated in other threads, there offense was middle of the pact (looking at wOBA and wRC+) and there defense was in the bottom 5. There starting rotation perform near the end of the season, but there were pretty bad throughout the year... There relief pitching was amazing, they are the reason why they did so well. However, when it comes to predicting how well they will perform year to year, its nearly impossible. More than likely they will regress a bit as the level they were pitching at was really astonishing.

Im not taking anything away from there 2012 season, but i really have a hard time seeing them repeating there performance UNLESS they make some changes. Bundy and Machado will help a bit, but how much is uncertain.

However, i still believe that Boston is the worse team

Nomar
11-14-2012, 05:03 PM
I like how the Red Sox fans are all "proud" to be in this position. Denial much?

It isnt fun being the worst but its cyclical and the farm has some improvements coming and we are financially constricted. It's life, I'm not always going to win, but I'll always be a Sox fan.

rcs15
11-14-2012, 05:06 PM
It's not denial at all lol. The Sox are finally going back to the plans they used to win titles in 2004 & 2007. Build from the farm and don't hand out ridiculous contracts for players not in their prime. If you ask any Sox fan would you rather be the worst team in the AL East or Win a World Series 10/10 would say world series

I'm pretty sure Damon, Manny, Ortiz, Schilling and Pedro weren't from the Red Sox farm system.

I do understand your point though, if you are not in contention for a title there is no point breaking your neck to be a .500 team. It's better to take the hit now and build a foundation for future success.

lol, please
11-14-2012, 05:08 PM
Close thread based on ridiculous title and principle.


Agreed
Agreed x2.

I like how the Red Sox fans are all "proud" to be in this position. Denial much?
:laugh2:

quinnjack
11-14-2012, 05:09 PM
For now? Yes, probably.

What I do like, as a Red Sox fan, is that Ben Cherrington appears to be building a TEAM carefully, and not jumping on suspect fits like Hamilton, Greinke, etc.

Farsight
11-14-2012, 05:13 PM
For now? Yes, probably.

What I do like, as a Red Sox fan, is that Ben Cherrington appears to be building a TEAM carefully, and not jumping on suspect fits like Hamilton, Greinke, etc. Apparently Boston was interested in acquiring Reyes before he was traded to Toronto

MotownWebGuy
11-14-2012, 05:15 PM
Are the Red Sox the worst team in the AL East???


The designation matters-not in November, December, January, February and March.
All that counts is April thru September.

Lots of off-season left.

OneManIsNoMan
11-14-2012, 05:17 PM
I'm pretty sure Damon, Manny, Ortiz, Schilling and Pedro weren't from the Red Sox farm system.

I do understand your point though, if you are not in contention for a title there is no point breaking your neck to be a .500 team. It's better to take the hit now and build a foundation for future success.

Your right they weren't, I mean all were pretty big acquisitions expect for Ortiz (most people had no idea who he was). If you look at the roster though they had some key guys who came through the system

2004 Season - Tek, Wake, Trot, Arroyo, Nomar (traded), Youklis

2007 Season - Buchholz, Delcarmn, Lester, Dice-K, Paps, Wake, Tek, Pedria, Youk, Ellsbury

Nomar
11-14-2012, 05:17 PM
Apparently Boston was interested in acquiring Reyes before he was traded to Toronto

They were. I'm bet Buehrle was a deal breaker though. Not a good fit especially considering how much he is paid.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 05:19 PM
Here is my thing.

The Sox have 60 million on the books Pre arb for 2013, around 45 million I believer in 2014, and (this will blow some minds), 12.7 million in guaranteed money (again pre-arb) for 2015.

You have Xander Boagerts, Matt Barnes, Jackey Bradley Jr., Allen Webster, and Bryce Brentz all probably top 100 prospects (Brentz will be in some and out of some), and all of them are going to be at AA/AAA this upcoming season

Then Rubby De La Rosa who is going to be 24 and from what from what scouts/Dodgers fans say he has 1-2 SP Potential.


Owens is on most top 100's now and Cecchini is fringy too, but if he posts a near .400 OBP this year again he'll be there.

Sanyo
11-14-2012, 05:24 PM
Jays will continue being better if they really want. The owner is BY FAR the richest in baseball (Rogers Communications). If they want, they can go nuts! Have deeper pockets than all of the AL East teams put together -- they just chose not to invest in the club in the past, but I think now's the time they will.

Not to mention they have the best depth of all the farm systems in the AL -- D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Sanchez, Osuna, Gose, Norris, Smoral, Lopez, etc etc.

If the owners decide its time to spend more, this team will be very dangerous and no team will be able to compete...

rcs15
11-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Jays will continue being better if they really want. The owner is BY FAR the richest in baseball (Rogers Communications). If they want, they can go nuts! Have deeper pockets than all the AL East team together -- they just choose not to invest in the club, but I think now's the time they will.

Not to mention they have the best depth of all the farm systems in the AL -- D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Sanchez, Osuna, Gose, Norris, Smoral, Lopez, etc etc.

If the owners decide its time to spend more, this team will be very dangerous and no team will be able to compete...

Back it up a little there, champ.

Sanyo
11-14-2012, 05:26 PM
Back it up a little there, champ.

Why?

Sanyo
11-14-2012, 05:30 PM
They were. I'm bet Buehrle was a deal breaker though. Not a good fit especially considering how much he is paid.

And who do the Sox have that's stable like him? Lester is the closest and coming off a horrible year. Buchholz is injured more than I care to count. I doubt the Sox will win the Greinke sweepstakes.

If the Sox want to strengthen their rotation, it will take giving up prospects like the Jays just gave up in a trade.

lol, please
11-14-2012, 05:33 PM
Back it up a little there, champ.


Why?

:laugh2:

dballss
11-14-2012, 05:35 PM
whats the point of this thread, atm they obviously are

StryderSox
11-14-2012, 05:38 PM
And who do the Sox have that's stable like him? Lester is the closest and coming off a horrible year. Buchholz is injured more than I care to count. I doubt the Sox will win the Greinke sweepstakes.

If the Sox want to strengthen their rotation, it will take giving up prospects like the Jays just gave up in a trade.

Or they sign a couple of low risk high reward guys short term and be content with letting their prospects get their feet wet at the major league level for the next year or two and be content that in 2015 they will once again have a solid core of young cost controlled players that will allow them to be a contender.

Its called rebuilding and believe it or not it has worked once or twice before.

Bo Sox Fan
11-14-2012, 05:38 PM
How many times over the past 20 years have we been served the magic BS potion from the Blue Jays and there fans trying to say "this is our year look out for the Blue Jays!"

History tells me, no matter how good your roster looks on paper (and you've had a couple lineups in the past better than the current) that you'll find a way to be out of contention by mid July.

That's why we play the games.

OneManIsNoMan
11-14-2012, 05:40 PM
And who do the Sox have that's stable like him? Lester is the closest and coming off a horrible year. Buchholz is injured more than I care to count. I doubt the Sox will win the Greinke sweepstakes.

If the Sox want to strengthen their rotation, it will take giving up prospects like the Jays just gave up in a trade.

If they want to strengthen the rotation they'll let guys like De La Rosa, Barnes, Webster & Owens develop and fill the holes when the come up. The Sox are not trying to build a contender right after they dismantled the team. They'll let key prospects develop while using the others a trade bait to get younger

Farsight
11-14-2012, 06:04 PM
They were. I'm bet Buehrle was a deal breaker though. Not a good fit especially considering how much he is paid. Yes i realize that, i was just responding to the one poster that said that Cherington was not looking for "quick fixes". Im not saying that he would have made a trade, but he has shown intent to make the team better now, which might result in the loss of prospects or young players on your roster

Sanyo
11-14-2012, 06:24 PM
How many times over the past 20 years have we been served the magic BS potion from the Blue Jays and there fans trying to say "this is our year look out for the Blue Jays!"

History tells me, no matter how good your roster looks on paper (and you've had a couple lineups in the past better than the current) that you'll find a way to be out of contention by mid July.

That's why we play the games.

You guys had the 2000's but who was better in the 1980's and 1990's? *cough* Jays *cough* And the 2010's it will be the Jays again.

Its been a while no doubt for the Jays, but they will turn it around here. Not saying the Jays will make the playoffs guaranteed (neither will the Sox) but they were better than the Sox even though virtually every Jay was on the DL all at once and doesnt matter who the Sox add, Jays still have a better overall team. Sox have no pen. Rotation in shambles. Yikes.

mtf
11-14-2012, 06:35 PM
You guys had the 2000's but who was better in the 1980's and 1990's? *cough* Jays *cough* And the 2010's it will be the Jays again.

Its been a while no doubt for the Jays, but they will turn it around here. Not saying the Jays will make the playoffs guaranteed (neither will the Sox) but they were better than the Sox even though virtually every Jay was on the DL all at once and doesnt matter who the Sox add, Jays still have a better overall team. Sox have no pen. Rotation in shambles. Yikes.

In fairness, the Red Sox had their fair share of injuries as well. Perhaps not to the same degree as the Blue Jays, but it was still very significant. In addition, they now have some prospects and financial flexibility going forward. It's not unlike where the Blue Jays were a couple of years ago and I fully expect their front office to be very proactive in turning things around.

As for the Jays, things look good right now, both short and long term. That being said, stuff happens and games still need to be played (as Boston fans are quick to remind us). Injuries or off years to/by key players can ruin teams.

TO to the CHI
11-14-2012, 06:47 PM
I will start by stating I am a Jays fan (so that is the bias I view things from).

However, this thread is definitely a little ridiculous. Would it shock me if the Red Sox were in 5th in 2013? No. Is that thread worthy if it happens? No. So why is it thread worthy now? Why deliberately troll the Red Sox fans?

The Sox have several good young prospects, ownership that has proven it will spend a ton, and lots of roster flexibility moving forward. The major league roster is a little barren right now, but it is absurd to suggest that it will be more than a 2-3 year rebuild (and maybe less).

That said, the vitriol from Red Sox fans is also pretty comical. Why get so defensive? We get it, you won two titles more recently than the Jays won two titles. But just as it would be petty for a Jays fan to waive around the 90 years before 2004, it is foolish for the Red Sox to act as though they have been dominant for years based on two titles this decade. Big Brother in the division is the Yankees (to both the Jays and Sox). Period. History has shown that. And the Yankees have a lot of issues to confront going forward (though they have lots of resources to address those issues). Why is the focus on Boston again? And why are the Red Sox fans so angry at Jays fans?

rockbottom2010
11-14-2012, 06:48 PM
they are the marlins of the AL

7chuck7
11-14-2012, 07:07 PM
I didnt think I would see the day but it looks like they are for now. What do you think?

The red sox always suck. Even when they swept the W.S. they still sucked. If they win every game during the season and sweep all the way to W.S. title you can still say, 'The Red Sox suck'.

Great thread !!!!!

sexicano31
11-14-2012, 07:10 PM
The red sox always suck. Even when they swept the W.S. they still sucked. If they win every game during the season and sweep all the way to W.S. title you can still say, 'The Red Sox suck'.

Great thread !!!!!

Its cute when you try to post something funny

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 07:17 PM
Apparently Boston was interested in acquiring Reyes before he was traded to Toronto

I hope that's not true. One of the 10 worst contracts in all MLB.

He's now a well below average fielder, outside of his big year a slightly over average hitter. If the Marlins ate his salary so he'd be $7M every year he might be worth it, as long as you rest him on every artificial field.

The worst part of this deal for Jays is him, followed by the soft serve lefty in the AL East where his records are awful.

Good for Jays at first, migrating to awful after 2014 or 2015.

scaramantula
11-14-2012, 08:23 PM
i don't think Johnson is going to make it to free agency, he'll sign an extension before the end of april

Farsight
11-14-2012, 08:29 PM
I hope that's not true. One of the 10 worst contracts in all MLB.

He's now a well below average fielder, outside of his big year a slightly over average hitter. If the Marlins ate his salary so he'd be $7M every year he might be worth it, as long as you rest him on every artificial field.

The worst part of this deal for Jays is him, followed by the soft serve lefty in the AL East where his records are awful.

Good for Jays at first, migrating to awful after 2014 or 2015. Was just trying to make a point as a poster stated that Cherington was not looking for "quick fixes". As i stated before, Im not saying that he would have made the trade, but it seems he has shown intent to make the team better now, which might result in the loss of prospects or young players on your roster

MrForever
11-14-2012, 08:43 PM
They would have to sign Grenkie AND Hamilton to pull themselves out o the basement, so even considering Free Agency potential, they will probably be the worst team next year.

Farsight
11-14-2012, 09:02 PM
double post

MetsFanatic19
11-14-2012, 09:13 PM
As of now, they are, but they won't be for long.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 09:19 PM
i don't think Johnson is going to make it to free agency, he'll sign an extension before the end of april

Are you sure?

IP per year since he became a regular:

157.0
015.2
087.1
209.0
183.2
060.1
191.1

He's getting paid $13.75M now. I wouldn't be too confident about this happening and less confident that the Jays would get their monies worth if they do as you say.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 09:21 PM
They would have to sign Grenkie AND Hamilton to pull themselves out o the basement, so even considering Free Agency potential, they will probably be the worst team next year.

It's fine, it's a cycle. What's wrong is reacting to this deal. Execute the plan.

Green_Monster
11-14-2012, 09:50 PM
they are the marlins of the AL

How so?

1. The Red Sox have some solid young players (Middlebrooks, Doubront, etc.)

2. They have a solid core of prime aged players (Lester, Pedrioa, Buchholz, Bailey, Ellsbury, Saltalamacchia)

3. They have a very good farm system. Look through this website (http://soxprospects.com/) to learn a little more about their prospects.

Halladay
11-14-2012, 10:10 PM
How many times over the past 20 years have we been served the magic BS potion from the Blue Jays and there fans trying to say "this is our year look out for the Blue Jays!"

History tells me, no matter how good your roster looks on paper (and you've had a couple lineups in the past better than the current) that you'll find a way to be out of contention by mid July.

That's why we play the games.

And how many times did Sox fans gush over Manny Ramirez after showing he's borderline ********? how many Sox fans thought Crawford was a great signing? We had the second best offense last year before all the injuries, an MVP candidate, a deep rotation, a deep pen,a deep bench and still have a great farm and AA isn't even done yet. Keep living on fantasy island though, where unicorns ride leprechauns and every prospect makes the big leagues. 2015 baby, 2015. The year the blue jays suddenly fall apart AmIRight?

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 10:23 PM
And how many times did Sox fans gush over Manny Ramirez after showing he's borderline ********? how many Sox fans thought Crawford was a great signing? We had the second best offense last year before all the injuries, an MVP candidate, a deep rotation, a deep pen,a deep bench and still have a great farm and AA isn't even done yet. Keep living on fantasy island though, where unicorns ride leprechauns and every prospect makes the big leagues. 2015 baby, 2015. The year the blue jays suddenly fall apart AmIRight?

Yeah I'm not going to put much stock into the Jays, not until they actually do something.

BTW, I figured the Leprechauns would ride the unicorns?

ccugrad1
11-14-2012, 10:25 PM
Right now, you could probably say yes. But FA hasn't begun. I am not sold still on Baltimore; they are a team that could easily go back to last place.

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 10:29 PM
The Jays pretty much gutted their farm for 3 question marks. Ballsy move but it may not work out.

1.JJ is injury prone, never pitched in the AL, especially the AL East
2. Reyes injury prone as well, tends to be a head case, possibly his best years are behind him.
3. Buehrle, solid pitcher, AL tested, not AL East tested.

It's a gamble. I wouldnt be shocked if it blows up in the Jays face or if they do succeed. Time will tell.

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 10:36 PM
The Jays pretty much gutted their farm for 3 question marks. Ballsy move but it may not work out.

1.JJ is injury prone, never pitched in the AL, especially the AL East
2. Reyes injury prone as well, tends to be a head case, possibly his best years are behind him.
3. Buehrle, solid pitcher, AL tested, not AL East tested.

It's a gamble. I wouldnt be shocked if it blows up in the Jays face or if they do succeed. Time will tell.

Gutted their farm? Maybe you should do some research before shooting off about something you obviously know nothing about

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 10:38 PM
Gutted their farm? Maybe you should do some research before shooting off about something you know nothing about

I have, and I'm not blown away at all. Dont start with the homerish tomfoolery. Your farm, now, is nothing to write home about.

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 10:41 PM
For years I've been hearing how awesome the Jays farm system is on here. Who exactly have they produced in the last 10 years? This is main reason I cannot stand Jays fans.

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 10:44 PM
I have, and I'm not blown away at all. Dont start with the homerish tomfoolery. Your farm, now, is nothing to write home about.

How is giving up two top ten and a fringe top ten prospect gutting the farm?

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 10:46 PM
For years I've been hearing how awesome the Jays farm system is on here. Who exactly have they produced in the last 10 years? This is main reason I cannot stand Jays fans.

Coming from a Yankee fan, whose fan base preached to the world that Joba and Hughes were the second coming, amongst many others, is pretty hilarious. Easily the most overrated farm in baseball, year in year out.

Halladay
11-14-2012, 10:48 PM
Yeah I'm not going to put much stock into the Jays, not until they actually do something.

BTW, I figured the Leprechauns would ride the unicorns?
They did do something.:rolleyes:


The Jays pretty much gutted their farm for 3 question marks. Ballsy move but it may not work out.

1.JJ is injury prone, never pitched in the AL, especially the AL East
2. Reyes injury prone as well, tends to be a head case, possibly his best years are behind him.
3. Buehrle, solid pitcher, AL tested, not AL East tested.

It's a gamble. I wouldnt be shocked if it blows up in the Jays face or if they do succeed. Time will tell.
Gutted the farm? LOL it's also cute how you downplay the guys we picked up without mentioning with flip side being a possible Cy Young pitcher,a batting champ and an innings eater who's proven he can pitch in the AL. Ridiculous on your part and extremely weak.


For years I've been hearing how awesome the Jays farm system is on here. Who exactly have they produced in the last 10 years? This is main reason I cannot stand Jays fans.
Really? do some research bud. Who cares if we drafted an MVP caliber player like Bautista? Encarnacion? Lawrie?Morrow?D'arnaud? Isn't the point to acquire talent? as a Yankees fan you should know this. This is the team who drafted and developed Halladay,Carpenter,Escobar,Wells...oh why bother continuing with this ignorance.

Halladay
11-14-2012, 10:51 PM
How is giving up two top ten and a fringe top ten prospect gutting the farm?

Nono you're wrong here. We had a top 5 farm according to EVERYONE and now it's gutted. We know nothing about our own farm clearly a Yankees fan has no bias here and knows more about our prospects then we do. We gave up D'arnaud,Gose,Syndegaard,Sanchez,Ozuna in the trade yesterday. Oh wait...

mtf
11-14-2012, 10:52 PM
The Jays pretty much gutted their farm for 3 question marks. Ballsy move but it may not work out.

1.JJ is injury prone, never pitched in the AL, especially the AL East
2. Reyes injury prone as well, tends to be a head case, possibly his best years are behind him.
3. Buehrle, solid pitcher, AL tested, not AL East tested.

It's a gamble. I wouldnt be shocked if it blows up in the Jays face or if they do succeed. Time will tell.

The part I've bolded is incredibly untrue.

The 3 players in this trade which is disappointing to see leaving the Blue Jays organization is Adeiny Hechavarria, Jake Marisnick and Justin Nicolino.

Hechavarria had a 40-game stint in the majors at the end of last year and was really fun to watch. He was spectacular in the field, but his bat came along slowly. By the end of the season, his offense was heating up and I was really looking forward to seeing him next year. Getting Jose Reyes to play shortstop is still a big upgrade though, not with the glove but at least with the bat and speed on the bases.

Jake Marisnick was probably the best prospect given up by the Jays, but Anthony Gose was comparable (perhaps better) and further along in his development. The Jays also used some very high draft picks to select and sign some more high potential outfielders. It's still a loss to see him go, but it's not crippling by any means.

Justin Nicolino was one of the 3 prized pitching prospects in Lansing (A-ball) for the Blue Jays, but the least valuable of the 3.

As for Yunel Escobar, Henderson Alvarez, Anthony DeSclafani and Jeff Mathis... none of these losses are particularly damaging. Alvarez is very young and has potential, but is often criticized for having only 2 pitches and not being able to strike people out (although he has a high ground ball rate).

Overall, I can't see how you can legitimately say the Blue Jays farm system has been gutted considering the young talent that remains. Brett Lawrie, Drew Hutchison, Noah Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez, Travis D'Arnaud and Anthony Gose are all more prized assets than anyone given up in this trade with the exception of Jake Marisnick being right in the middle of that pack.

The only legitimate concern I've heard anyone make about this trade is that the Blue Jays used up their "financial flexibility" to make this trade happen, and bring in players who do each have an asterisk next to their name.

That being said, Anthopoulos is unwilling to deal via free agency, so significant players could only be attained through trade and I don't know that they could acquire so much veteran talent for so few prospects from any other team. By that standard alone, it's hard to see this as anything but a huge win on paper.

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 10:57 PM
I have no bias. Lord forbid someone isnt drooling over your farm system. Again, what has it done for the Jays the last 10 years? NOTHING. Is the Jays farm system better than the Yankees? Absolutely. Im not saying it isnt. Lets see how this trade works out and see where the Jays are in August/September. Until then, they are an irrelevant team.

Kenny Powders
11-14-2012, 10:58 PM
I have no bias. Lord forbid someone isnt drooling over your farm system. Again, what has it done for the Jays the last 10 years? NOTHING. Is the Jays farm system better than the Yankees? Absolutely. Im not saying it isnt. Lets see how this trade works out and see where the Jays are in August/September. Until then, they are an irrelevant team.

You still haven't explained how we gutted the farm?

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 11:01 PM
You still haven't explained how we gutted the farm?

As in major league ready talent, from what I have seen and from what I've heard from other jays fans. Im not saying in general but this trade may have put the farm system back atleast a few years.

mtf
11-14-2012, 11:03 PM
I have no bias. Lord forbid someone isnt drooling over your farm system. Again, what has it done for the Jays the last 10 years? NOTHING. Is the Jays farm system better than the Yankees? Absolutely. Im not saying it isnt. Lets see how this trade works out and see where the Jays are in August/September. Until then, they are an irrelevant team.

I'm not sure who you were responding to, but I didn't accuse you of any bias. If anything, ignorance would be the correct description. The Jays did not gut their farm system, as you claimed.

As for their farm system, Anthopoulos has been the GM of the team for 3 years. He inherited one of the worst farm systems in baseball. In that time, he's drafted and acquired many prospects. Few of them have made the majors yet. Brett Lawrie, Kyle Drabek and Henderson Alvarez would be the only ones with significant time at the majors so far. Many more are still developing. It's a "time will tell" situation with how good his prospects turn out to be.

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 11:06 PM
I just think it was a dumb trade. Giving up young, cheap big time talent for two injury prone players, one thats owed 96m and Mark Buehrle.

mtf
11-14-2012, 11:08 PM
I just think it was a dumb trade. Giving up young, cheap big time talent for two injury prone players, one thats owed 96m and Mark Buehrle.

You're entitled to that opinion, and it's a defensible one. However, the assertion that they 'gutted their system' is just not actually true at all. They dipped into it, sure, but it still has a high amount of talent remaining including almost all of their best prospects.

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 11:09 PM
Just seems a bit like a panic move. Just my humble opinion. AA obviously is a smarter guy than I am so we'll see how it plays out. Enjoy!

LASportsFan1996
11-14-2012, 11:10 PM
At this second, yes

By the beginning of next year, prob not

mtf
11-14-2012, 11:13 PM
But the Jays, for now, have the headlines, they are irrelevent in terms of that. I wont rain on your 48 hour parade, you guys deserve this much. Kudos and I'll eat crow if you finish 10 over. Peace.

I think you mean relevant, but thank you for not raining on our 2 day parade! That was very kind of you. :)

STL Don
11-14-2012, 11:14 PM
Right now they are.

The Yankees, Rays and Orioles have rosters that are capable of reaching the playoffs when healthy.
With Toronto landing this mega deal, they've put themselves into the same category, AS LONG as their key players can stay healthy.. Josh Johnson could significantly improve their starting pitching.

Halladay
11-14-2012, 11:16 PM
I have no bias. Lord forbid someone isnt drooling over your farm system. Again, what has it done for the Jays the last 10 years? NOTHING. Is the Jays farm system better than the Yankees? Absolutely. Im not saying it isnt. Lets see how this trade works out and see where the Jays are in August/September. Until then, they are an irrelevant team.
They were irrelevant. Please tell me what producing a player 10 years ago has to do with anything now? You know who we got by trading farm pieces? Marcum for Lawrie. League for Morrow. Robinson Diaz for Jose Bautista. Encarnacion for Rolen. Need I go on? dealing Halladay, a homegrown player which turned into D'arnaud,Gose and Drabek, our top prospect and one our top 5 prospects.

As in major league ready talent, from what I have seen and from what I've heard from other jays fans. Im not saying in general but this trade may have put the farm system back atleast a few years.
No it hasn't. I have no idea what you're talking about. Hech is close to mlb ready but he still needs AB's in the minors in a perfect world. Nicolino is still a few years away, Marisnick is still very raw like Hech...I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Our most MLB ready prospects are D'arnaud,Gose,Sierra and Stroman. I really think you're reaching big time here.

Halladay
11-14-2012, 11:17 PM
Just seems a bit like a panic move. Just my humble opinion. AA obviously is a smarter guy than I am so we'll see how it plays out. Enjoy!

Picking up all-stars in their prime is a panic move?

Rapsfanforlife
11-14-2012, 11:20 PM
holy frig people...The Jays have been the laughing stock of the MLB for the 2000's...less lately but still...brutal. The Red Sox had their brutal years too. Baseball, unless you have uber deep pockets like NYY, LAA, Texas, etc, is about build, rebuild, hopefully develop your youth....the Jays have done a great job over the past 4-5 yrs of developing their youth and farm. This has given then the luxury of being able to use these kids, and the marketing power that goes along with the development, to get a trade like they got today. There is no way, not in a million years, that this trade is balanced from a talent perspective. BUT...it is nice, as a Jays fan for my entire life (well since they started), that they are relevant again.

The Jays had a good team last year, but injuries prevented that from coming to fruition. but alot of teams had serious injury problems last year and its just simply part of the game.

I think that the Jays still have several moves coming - I think that they are looking for another proven and strong starting pitcher. I think that they will move JPA and pieces for that. and I think that they are looking for more OBP hitters...and they will spend up to $145M to get the team...IMO Rogers has told Alex Anthopolus...now is the time...spend to your hearts content. We want to win, we want a product on the field that at least on paper is in contention...we want to play with NY, Boston, Texas, etc salary wise...

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 11:41 PM
Picking up all-stars in their prime is a panic move?

JJ is very injury prone. Have fun with Reyes after a few years. Its a move for now, not the future.

mtf
11-14-2012, 11:59 PM
JJ is very injury prone. Have fun with Reyes after a few years. Its a move for now, not the future.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's a move for the future, but your assertion that they gutted their farm system to make this "now" move is simply not even remotely true.

Josh Johnson's injury situation may be overblown a bit. He did miss almost all of 2011 due to recovering from surgery, but in the other 3 of the past 4 years he was 209, 183.2 and 191.1 innings pitched.

It's a valid concern that a human being who's had an injury in the past may get injured again in the future, but he's only signed through 2013 anyways.

I thought you said you were going to let us have our 48 hour parade uninterrupted, after your previous interruption! ;)

homie564
11-15-2012, 12:00 AM
How has that thinking helped the Royals, Pirates, Astros, and Mariners? :eyebrow:

completely differently than it has helped the Nationals, Pirates, and Rays :shrug:

homie564
11-15-2012, 12:03 AM
holy frig people...The Jays have been the laughing stock of the MLB for the 2000's...less lately but still...brutal. The Red Sox had their brutal years too. Baseball, unless you have uber deep pockets like NYY, LAA, Texas, etc, is about build, rebuild, hopefully develop your youth....the Jays have done a great job over the past 4-5 yrs of developing their youth and farm. This has given then the luxury of being able to use these kids, and the marketing power that goes along with the development, to get a trade like they got today. There is no way, not in a million years, that this trade is balanced from a talent perspective. BUT...it is nice, as a Jays fan for my entire life (well since they started), that they are relevant again.

The Jays had a good team last year, but injuries prevented that from coming to fruition. but alot of teams had serious injury problems last year and its just simply part of the game.

I think that the Jays still have several moves coming - I think that they are looking for another proven and strong starting pitcher. I think that they will move JPA and pieces for that. and I think that they are looking for more OBP hitters...and they will spend up to $145M to get the team...IMO Rogers has told Alex Anthopolus...now is the time...spend to your hearts content. We want to win, we want a product on the field that at least on paper is in contention...we want to play with NY, Boston, Texas, etc salary wise...

Red Sox have deep pockets too, they just know how to acknowledge a mistake unlike LAA (Wells, etc.), and the Yankees (A-Rod, Jeter, etc.)

mtf
11-15-2012, 12:12 AM
Red Sox have deep pockets too, they just know how to acknowledge a mistake unlike LAA (Wells, etc.), and the Yankees (A-Rod, Jeter, etc.)

It sounded like the Angels were trying to get rid of Wells, and the Yankees would love to ship A-Rod out but he has a no-trade clause and even if he'd waive it, who would take him?

As for Jeter, I'm not a fan of him at all, but how can you possibly claim resigning him was a mistake? Defensively? maybe. But he's definitely worked out for them quite well all things considered. Far from a mistake.

The Yankees, overall, have been a model of good spending considering their dominance of the most difficult division in baseball over the past 15 years.

Halladay
11-15-2012, 12:19 AM
JJ is very injury prone. Have fun with Reyes after a few years. Its a move for now, not the future.

JJ threw 191 innings last season. Reyes played in 160 games. Your bias stinks.

Nomar
11-15-2012, 12:44 AM
JJ threw 191 innings last season. Reyes played in 160 games. Your bias stinks.

Still with JJ a FA next year it is a move for the present. Also Reyes may end up at 2nd base in a few years regardless of him missing games or not. I wouldn't assume either gets hurt next year though. They should both do really well. I think JJ will kill it in Toronto.

Pinstripe pride
11-15-2012, 09:22 AM
they are the marlins of the AL

dont forget houston is now in the AL

bagwell368
11-15-2012, 10:39 AM
Picking up all-stars in their prime is a panic move?

Reyes and Buehrle are both past their prime - obviously. Buehrle can still throw innings which has value, but he's been declining and the AL East has killed him in the past - look at the splits.

Reyes is a brutal fielding SS now - much less then what you dealt. He's a bit above average with the bat outside of his one big year. He's injury prone and artificial surfaces kill him. I'd bet anybody that his last 4 years on average will be well below in FG WAR $ then his salary - at least $7M per, if not $14M per. Ugh.

xxplayerxx23
11-15-2012, 10:43 AM
Reyes and Buehrle are both past their prime - obviously.

He prob meant Josh Johnson, who is in his prime. Reyes is just out of his Prime I agree.

Super.
11-15-2012, 11:56 AM
He prob meant Josh Johnson, who is in his prime. Reyes is just out of his Prime I agree.

JJ hasn't been the same amazing pitcher that he was in 2009,2010. He was decent this year, but still not as good.

Besides the AL East is a notorious murderers row for pitchers. Bill James has good predictions for him, but I think that's still in Miami.

OneManIsNoMan
11-15-2012, 12:10 PM
Picking up all-stars in their prime is a panic move?

I'm sorry what? If JJ can stay healthy (which is a coin flip) then he's a all-star pitcher, I'll give you that. Reyes All-Star days are behind him, as some have pointed out the turf is going to give Reyes problems (medically). I wouldn't be shocked to see him with a WAR around 2.5-3 this year. As far as Buehrle goes, he's a bull dog inning eater that will give you 200ip. Is he an "All-Star" pitcher? No but he's a solid #2 and a great #3.