PDA

View Full Version : Blue Jays To Acquire Johnson, Reyes, Buehrle From Marlins



Nomar
11-13-2012, 09:02 PM
How do you guys feel about this trade? How do you see the Blue Jays now?

Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes, John Buck, and Emilio Bonifacio to Toronto. Miami will pay $4M.

Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, Nicolino, Henderson Alvarez, Marisnick, Desclafani and Jeff Mathis to Miami.

Pedroia
11-13-2012, 09:07 PM
I was just reading about it. I think they finish 3rd next year behind Tampa and NY.

Celtic AL
11-13-2012, 09:09 PM
imo i think its a bad trade for both teams. Jays get Johnson (IF he says healthy he relaces Roy) but they got Reyes, Buehrle & Bucks Contracts. if 2 of the 3 don't pan out Alex is going to have a hard time dealing them. as for the marlins they are a joke.

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:09 PM
How do you guys feel about this trade? How do you see the Blue Jays now?

Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes, John Buck, and Emilio Bonifacio to Toronto. Miami will pay $4M.

Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, Nicolino, Henderson Alvarez, Marisnick, Desclafani and Jeff Mathis to Miami.

They took on a lot of salary, and out of all they aquired, Johnson is the only one that really worries me, as far as facing. Buehrle doesn't excit me, nor does Reyes.

AA put his neck out for this one.....

Nomar
11-13-2012, 09:10 PM
There's no avoiding last place next year it seems.

Nomar
11-13-2012, 09:11 PM
I think Reyes will do really well in Toronto personally.

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:16 PM
There's no avoiding last place next year it seems.


I expect some sort of deal of significance this off season.

It has nothing to do with this deal Toronto just made, but generally speaking I see them making a play for some young, cost control guy.

Doling out foolish long term deals to second tier FA's that are available this year to me is crazy.

They may have to sign one, but filling the roster with them? I dunno.....

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:19 PM
I think Reyes will do really well in Toronto personally.

He has always had a problem staying on the field. He's in a hitters park, with a crappy playing surface.

I think he will be a good player, not a great one.....

Nomar
11-13-2012, 09:20 PM
The Stanton levy has broken.

AI
11-13-2012, 09:25 PM
imo i think its a bad trade for both teams. Jays get Johnson (IF he says healthy he relaces Roy) but they got Reyes, Buehrle & Bucks Contracts. if 2 of the 3 don't pan out Alex is going to have a hard time dealing them. as for the marlins they are a joke.

Are you ****ing kidding me? This is an amazing deal for Toronto.

Celtic AL
11-13-2012, 09:29 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? This is an amazing deal for Toronto.

I don't think it is. Johnson is a good pick up for them tho. but i just don't like reyes. even tho he'll do alright but not worth his contract.

JMP83
11-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Toronto got a ton of pure talent but also a good amount of risk. Especially health risks.

But if you don't think Toronto improved its team for the next few years I don't know what to tell you.

ben_watson_84
11-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Anthopolous is a genius. Loria is a scumbag. This trade makes the division that much harder. I was already planning for 2013 to be a bridge year like everyone else. Buehrle is decent but Johnson is terrific

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:44 PM
Toronto got a ton of pure talent but also a good amount of risk. Especially health risks.

But if you don't think Toronto improved its team for the next few years I don't know what to tell you.

Definitely in the short term, and on paper.

Station 13
11-13-2012, 09:44 PM
What the heck did the Marlins got back?

Station 13
11-13-2012, 09:45 PM
Definitely in the short term, and on paper.

2013 is a big window for the Jays to snatch up a WC. MFY were just .500 most of the post all-star break. They play like it during the playoff.

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:48 PM
What the heck did the Marlins got back?

Salary relief, a back up catcher, #4 SP, starting SS, 4 minor leaguers..( 2 arms, OF'er and IF'er)

Station 13
11-13-2012, 09:50 PM
Salary relief, a back up catcher, #4 SP, starting SS, 4 minor leaguers..( 2 arms, OF'er and IF'er)

Marlins got hose here. They would've demanded Barnes and Bradley from us for Johnson alone.

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:52 PM
2013 is a big window for the Jays to snatch up a WC. MFY were just .500 most of the post all-star break. They play like it during the playoff.

I want to say that AA has played his entire hand going all in this season.....

They just need to find someone to manage them all now....

taffi101
11-13-2012, 09:53 PM
Marlins got hose here. They would've demanded Barnes and Bradley from us for Johnson alone.

Maybe so, but we wouldn't have taken all that salary either.....I think that is what they were looking for big picture -wise....

Soxfan85
11-13-2012, 10:00 PM
Dont jump on me here but something tells me the comish will not prove of the deal. This is the 2nd time they blew up the team. they got rid of Hanley Ramirez, Gabby Sanchez, and Heath Bell. Now they got rid of Johnson, Reyes, Buehrle. I feel bad for the Marlins I really do. You can jump on me about this but this is how im feeling. Right now the only star on the Marlins is Giancarlo Stanton. He has every right to be pissed, if was on the Marlins and knew my friends I knew for a long time are leaving i'd be pissed. Again this is how I feel

bagwell368
11-13-2012, 10:07 PM
Toronto got a ton of pure talent but also a good amount of risk. Especially health risks.

But if you don't think Toronto improved its team for the next few years I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah but the Jays used up a lot of their spare money as well.

statquo
11-13-2012, 10:08 PM
imo i think its a bad trade for both teams. Jays get Johnson (IF he says healthy he relaces Roy) but they got Reyes, Buehrle & Bucks Contracts. if 2 of the 3 don't pan out Alex is going to have a hard time dealing them. as for the marlins they are a joke.

AA traded vernon wells... no contract is unmoveable for AA.

thebusnotjerome
11-13-2012, 10:10 PM
By names alone, Toronto got a deal. However, I have never been a fan of trading for a pitcher who has only played in the NL. I always look back to the Javier Vazquez deal to both the Yankees and White Sox. He was the pitcher everyone wanted to trade for. He was productive in the NL but was horrible in the AL. Johnson may be different, but this how I feel.

And I think Giancarlo Stanton will demand a trade. The Marlins Front office is just horrible. Bad decision makers over there.

JMP83
11-13-2012, 10:10 PM
Dont jump on me here but something tells me the comish will not prove of the deal. This is the 2nd time they blew up the team. they got rid of Hanley Ramirez, Gabby Sanchez, and Heath Bell. Now they got rid of Johnson, Reyes, Buehrle. I feel bad for the Marlins I really do. You can jump on me about this but this is how im feeling. Right now the only star on the Marlins is Giancarlo Stanton. He has every right to be pissed, if was on the Marlins and knew my friends I knew for a long time are leaving i'd be pissed. Again this is how I feel

Won't jump on you but I think there's little chance Selig won't approve the deal. He's not that type of Commish. He may start to push for The Marlins to be sold, but the deal will go through.

corky831
11-13-2012, 10:11 PM
I'd offer Barnes and WMB to try and get stanton.....pipe dream i know, but imagine what he'd do in boston?

I'd even throw in Brentz too.

taffi101
11-13-2012, 10:11 PM
Dont jump on me here but something tells me the comish will not prove of the deal. This is the 2nd time they blew up the team. they got rid of Hanley Ramirez, Gabby Sanchez, and Heath Bell. Now they got rid of Johnson, Reyes, Buehrle. I feel bad for the Marlins I really do. You can jump on me about this but this is how im feeling. Right now the only star on the Marlins is Giancarlo Stanton. He has every right to be pissed, if was on the Marlins and knew my friends I knew for a long time are leaving i'd be pissed. Again this is how I feel

If you count when they completely blew the team up in 97' after the WS, this is just par for the coarse.

The league won't have any problem signing off on this deal. They had no issue with the Punto trade in August, so I can't see there being any issue with this one.

I feel for the fans and Stanton. New ballpark, big expectations, and complete bust last season....

JMP83
11-13-2012, 10:12 PM
Yeah but the Jays used up a lot of their spare money as well.

Well, it's not like the FA market is all that great. Also think they have some payroll space left for little moves.

bagwell368
11-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Well, it's not like the FA market is all that great. Also think they have some payroll space left for little moves.

True. But they owe some heavy money for another 4 years - this year isn't the end of such considerations No telling what FA gets will have to bypassed to pay off under water contracts.

taffi101
11-13-2012, 10:29 PM
True. But they owe some heavy money for another 4 years - this year isn't the end of such considerations No telling what FA gets will have to bypassed to pay off under water contracts.

The problem with FA's over the past decade up here, has been the in-ability to get them to come play in Canada. (Top tier guys that is)

For whatever reason, be it the Jays in-ability to offer enough, players not wanting to cross borders, or play on that crappy playing surface, whichever, they haven't had much luck luring guys to Toronto.....

I think this may have been AA best play right now....

JMP83
11-13-2012, 10:33 PM
True. But they owe some heavy money for another 4 years - this year isn't the end of such considerations No telling what FA gets will have to bypassed to pay off under water contracts.

Pretty sure the Rogers group has the ability to sustain a pretty good payroll. I don't think they'll be that hampered.

SirHizz
11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
I agree with taffi, Jays have always had a tough time convincing high profile FA's signing there, so I am not overly surprised the Jays pulled this kinda deal. It's certainly a risk and removes all the excuses, the Jays have to contend over the next years.

The Marlins should just move or at least get a new owner, it's pretty embarassing and I feel sorry for the real fans. Wouldn't shock me if Stanton demands a trade. We'd be in it, but I doubt Ben will be ready to give up Bogaerts, Barnes++

taffi101
11-13-2012, 10:39 PM
Pretty sure the Rogers group has the ability to sustain a pretty good payroll. I don't think they'll be that hampered.

That is very,very true...

They own the Jays, Rogers Centre, have a 37.5% stake in the Leafs, Raptors and the ACC in partnership with Bell Canada, as well as the Rogers Arena in Vancouver.... they won't be hampered by payroll issues if they choose not to be.....

taffi101
11-13-2012, 10:43 PM
I agree with taffi, Jays have always had a tough time convincing high profile FA's signing there, so I am not overly surprised the Jays pulled this kinda deal. It's certainly a risk and removes all the excuses, the Jays have to contend over the next years.

The Marlins should just move or at least get a new owner, it's pretty embarassing and I feel sorry for the real fans. Wouldn't shock me if Stanton demands a trade. We'd be in it, but I doubt Ben will be ready to give up Bogaerts, Barnes++

I watched the same principal owner of the Marlins, (Loria) dismantle the Expos, and eventually leave Montreal.

There were other circumstances involved obviously, like the location and condition of the ballpark out in the East end of the city, but the jest is that he was the owner when they toke their nose dive as a franchise....

Nomar
11-13-2012, 10:49 PM
The question never was if they had money, it was when they were ready to start spending a lot of it. Seems like that time has come.

Sweet_Caroline
11-13-2012, 11:05 PM
Cafardo says we made a push for Reyes and Johnson.

AI
11-13-2012, 11:12 PM
Cafardo says we made a push for Reyes and Johnson.

:(

Nomar
11-13-2012, 11:13 PM
:(

If we got Reyes and Johnson without giving up the big 3 id be happy.

SirHizz
11-13-2012, 11:29 PM
:(

Are you mad that we made a push or that we didn't get it done? There's no way I wanted Reyes and his contract...basically Crawford 2.0. Johnson would of been nice, but do we really know what he's going to bring to the table? He was healthy last year and didn't perform as expected.

I just hope we are not thinking about Tulowitzki (another overpaid SS who could get traded in the right deal)

AI
11-13-2012, 11:33 PM
I might be the only one, but I wouldn't mind Reyes here if all it cost us was meh pieces in return for taking on his contract.

corky831
11-13-2012, 11:39 PM
I know the contract is absurd and we are trying to stay away from these type of deals but I'd love to have Tulo. He got hurt last year, but has been consistent for the most part over his career putting up monster numbers for a SS. His contract is nothing as bad as Pujols, Fielders, or what Hamilton will get. We need that big right handed bat, and Tulo would be 28 for the whole baseball season for next yr. I believe his contract runs out when he's 36 not too too crazy age wise. If it wouldn't cost us an arm and a leg to acquire him, I'd definitely look into it.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 12:09 AM
That is very,very true...

They own the Jays, Rogers Centre, have a 37.5% stake in the Leafs, Raptors and the ACC in partnership with Bell Canada, as well as the Rogers Arena in Vancouver.... they won't be hampered by payroll issues if they choose not to be.....

Sure the Jays are constrained.

It's a business, they are not going to become loss leaders fielding a top team.

If they jack it high enough there is always the luxury tax.

If both SP's they picked up turn into a copy of Lackey and Dice after 2014, that would be an actual issue.

Too much glibness methinks.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 12:41 AM
Sure the Jays are constrained.

It's a business, they are not going to become loss leaders fielding a top team.

If they jack it high enough there is always the luxury tax.

If both SP's they picked up turn into a copy of Lackey and Dice after 2014, that would be an actual issue.

Too much glibness methinks.

MB is old and wont be effective in the AL East. With Johnson i think of Burnett's years in Toronto and i expect him to be just as good if he can stay healthy. I've read people already saying that they shouldnt have much of a problem staying under the luxury tax threshold.

-Lavigne43-
11-14-2012, 02:02 AM
They certainly have high potential, these are far from perfect players though. JJ has as extensive an injury history as it gets, his stuff has declined too. Like all career NL pitchers you have to wonder how he adjusts to the AL too, so many NL pitchers have struggled with the adjustment to the AL in the first season. He only has one year left and he's not a guy I would want to invest heavily into long term, he's not the main piece.

Reyes is the big piece, and the Marlins sold soooooo low on him. His contract isn't outrageous at all. His season last year is only disappointing when compared to his 2011, 2011 was obviously an outlier season for him and it is ridiculous to think he would repeat that. He's a top 5 SS in baseball, the only thing you worry about with him is durability.

Buehrle is 200 innings of solid pitching. I'm not going to count him out until he does poorly. His contract is so ridiculous though. It's all back loaded, $48M the next 3 years, 37 in the last two.

Buck is just a salary dump. Don't know if he is in it, but Bonifacio is a nice piece if he is.

The Jays could be very good next year if things go right. It's a good shot for them.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 02:19 AM
Reyes is the big piece, and the Marlins sold soooooo low on him. His contract isn't outrageous at all. His season last year is only disappointing when compared to his 2011, 2011 was obviously an outlier season for him and it is ridiculous to think he would repeat that. He's a top 5 SS in baseball, the only thing you worry about with him is durability.


Durability definitely is the big thing here. Toronto is not a friendly place for infielders. His defense is below average already and hes there for at least 4 years making big money. Injury not only could make him lose time, but become even worse in the field. I could see a move to 2B eventually happen, which wouldnt be the end of the world but also wouldnt be ideal considering his salary. Overall it was still a good move by Toronto and i think theres a good chance Jose comes close to earning that contract barring him missing an entire season.

armchairgm
11-14-2012, 05:45 AM
That is very,very true...

They own the Jays, Rogers Centre, have a 37.5% stake in the Leafs, Raptors and the ACC in partnership with Bell Canada, as well as the Rogers Arena in Vancouver.... they won't be hampered by payroll issues if they choose not to be.....

Rogers Corp is huge yes one of the richest owners in all of baseball if not richest. However they do not own Rogers Arena in Vancouver they just bought the naming rights for PR.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 07:14 AM
I've read people already saying that they shouldnt have much of a problem staying under the luxury tax threshold.

Yeah so far this year since the FA class blows.

I'm talking 2014-2017:

1. Guys they have get hurt or ineffective
2. Guys they just got the same
3. They start hitting the 92 win threshold, and the refrain "just one more guy" will start up, and they'll respond - with real money.

There is no way today to call what will happen in those years - either way. Wait.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 07:21 AM
Reyes is the big piece, and the Marlins sold soooooo low on him. His contract isn't outrageous at all. His season last year is only disappointing when compared to his 2011, 2011 was obviously an outlier season for him and it is ridiculous to think he would repeat that. He's a top 5 SS in baseball, the only thing you worry about with him is durability.

The only thing I agree with is his durability, which is a major concern.

His fielding has gone to hell the past few years. Outside of 2011, he's an above average hitter. His contract going forward is insane:

2012 30 $10,000,000
2014 31 $16,000,000
2015 32 $22,000,000
2016 33 $22,000,000
2017 34 $22,000,000
2018 35*$22,000,000 $22M Team Option, $4M Buyout

That's awful, and he'll never live up to it. He's also a bit of a headcase.

This deal is nowhere as stupid as the what the Dodgers did for us, but it's a good deal of the way there.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 07:45 AM
Also remember Josh Johnson will be a free agent next offseason.

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 09:43 AM
If we trade XB this offseason im going to be ripshit.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 09:44 AM
I would trade Bogaerts for Stanton in a second if we got to keep Barnes and JBJ.

Bogaerts + Owens + Lavarnway + Iglesias

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Im on the otherside. I would send a package to Miami for Stanton as long as we keep XB. He's untouchable in my eyes. He's our second coming of Hanley. I didnt want to trade HanRam in the first place and i dont want to trade him the second time around.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 10:09 AM
Like I said. This deal would have been bad for the Sox. It's OK for the Jays in the short term, but that's it:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20221114sox_no_thanks_smart_to_avoid_johnson-reyes_megadeal/

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 10:15 AM
I would trade Bogaerts for Stanton in a second if we got to keep Barnes and JBJ.

Bogaerts + Owens + Lavarnway + Iglesias

I'd rather deal: Webster, Wilson, Kalish, Brentz, Cecchini for Stanton, but that's not likely enough. They'd probably want 2 out of these 3: XB, Barnes, Bradley as the anchors of the deal.

ricomactaco
11-14-2012, 10:17 AM
I think the Jays are far from done this offseason. They appear to be all in this year. They see this time period as their chance to capture the east as all teams are vulnerable. I expect they will sign another pitcher and may be in on a slugger like Josh Hamilton.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 10:21 AM
I think the Jays are far from done this offseason. They appear to be all in this year. They see this time period as their chance to capture the east as all teams are vulnerable. I expect they will sign another pitcher and may be in on a slugger like Josh Hamilton.

OK. Let them max out the salaries, and strip the farm for the sake of 2013-2015. Trying to react to that is the wrong thing. Let the Yanks go off half cocked. We need to stick to the plan and plan for 2015-2020.

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 10:22 AM
I arrived to work this morning and saw this news. At first I was a little peeved because I've been hoping for Johnson as long as the Sox have been looking at him. I dont care much for Reyes or his contract and same with Buerhle.

On the bright side we keep what we have in specs and aren't committing any serious money. Also, Johnson is in his contract year coming from the NL to the AL. The Jays would do well to extend him but if he tests the market his price might not be as high as if he was still in the NL. I see his ERA climbing a little this season in the AL East.

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 10:29 AM
I'd rather deal: Webster, Wilson, Kalish, Brentz, Cecchini for Stanton, but that's not likely enough. They'd probably want 2 out of these 3: XB, Barnes, Bradley as the anchors of the deal.

replace Brentz with Bradley? either way I'm all for that deal.


OK. Let them max out the salaries, and strip the farm for the sake of 2013-2015. Trying to react to that is the wrong thing. Let the Yanks go off half cocked. We need to stick to the plan and plan for 2015-2020.

I second this. Stick to the plan BC, stick to the plan.

NYSPORTS98
11-14-2012, 10:29 AM
What the heck did the Marlins got back?

They didn't get Lawrie :facepalm:

tiger_ted
11-14-2012, 10:33 AM
Nick Cafardo (Twitter)

Source: Red Sox made a push for both Jose Reyes and Josh Johnson, but Jays just blew Marlins away.

Who were the Sox willing to trade and likewise who should they / not be willing to trade?

Nomar
11-14-2012, 10:40 AM
I'd rather deal: Webster, Wilson, Kalish, Brentz, Cecchini for Stanton, but that's not likely enough. They'd probably want 2 out of these 3: XB, Barnes, Bradley as the anchors of the deal.

Yeah not likely enough but judging by their recent move I think giving up one of the top 3 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. This guy is a game changer, every team will explore a trade for him I'm sure.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah not likely enough but judging by their recent move I think giving up one of the top 3 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. This guy is a game changer, every team will explore a trade for him I'm sure.

As much as I don't like dealing our specs at this time - that's for older and more average players. Stanton is special and deserves to get our best effort within reason to snag him.

XB, Iglesias, Salty
Rubby, Barnes, Wilson, Aceves
$10M

for Stanton

I'd say that could force a deal.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 10:52 AM
As much as I don't like dealing our specs at this time - that's for older and more average players. Stanton is special and deserves to get our best effort within reason to snag him.

XB, Iglesias, Salty
Rubby, Barnes, Wilson, Aceves
$10M

for Stanton

I'd say that could force a deal.

That probably would and what it would come down to is how good Barnes and RDLR are expected to be. Stanton is younger than most prospects are web they first start playing. At Fenway and in the AL East he is a 50 HR guy at a time where very few are capable of that. I think he will be the games best hitter for a long time. There are very few deals I would end up having a problem with involving Stanton. Not every spec pans out, getting the games best young hitter with 5 years of control is impossible to pass on.

wolf82
11-14-2012, 10:54 AM
Nick Cafardo (Twitter)


Who were the Sox willing to trade and likewise who should they / not be willing to trade?

I don't think it wouldn't be that much. From what reports say the Blue Jays offer blew Miami away. IMO the Blue jays just took on way too much $$. Like the Dodgers did for the Sox, the Blue jays did a major favor for the Marlins, by taking on bad contracts.

Plus, JJ is a free agent after 2013. Taking on 160 mil for possibly 1 year of JJ? IMO thats a bad decision.

taffi101
11-14-2012, 12:22 PM
Rogers Corp is huge yes one of the richest owners in all of baseball if not richest. However they do not own Rogers Arena in Vancouver they just bought the naming rights for PR.

Yes that is correct....I realized that after I wrote it.....

AI
11-14-2012, 12:26 PM
Has anyone seen Josh Johnson's away numbers? Pretty ugly.

taffi101
11-14-2012, 12:32 PM
Sure the Jays are constrained.

It's a business, they are not going to become loss leaders fielding a top team.

If they jack it high enough there is always the luxury tax.

If both SP's they picked up turn into a copy of Lackey and Dice after 2014, that would be an actual issue.

Too much glibness methinks.

That is obvious, with my point being, they have the resources if they so chose to compete, payroll wise that is, with the other big players.

They face the same constraints any other team does, luxury tax et all, so it becomes a matter of calculated risk/gamble.

Johnson is a FA after next season, so he maybe come more of a non-issue going forward.

Buehrle, yeah, he could be a dud, or not very effective going forward.

Seems like more of an all or nothing deal to me......

Norieaga
11-14-2012, 01:07 PM
I would deal a package of top prospects for Stanton. He's a very young hitter who is absolutely raking! This is what top prospects are traded for, a young player to build a team around. After the Stanton deal I'd see what WSH wants for Michael Morse. Or I'd sign Mike Napoli.

The Jays have just gained ground AND momentum, we need to do something! They are more than a legitimate threat now.

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 01:33 PM
I would deal a package of top prospects for Stanton. He's a very young hitter who is absolutely raking! This is what top prospects are traded for, a young player to build a team around. After the Stanton deal I'd see what WSH wants for Michael Morse. Or I'd sign Mike Napoli.

The Jays have just gained ground AND momentum, we need to do something! They are more than a legitimate threat now.

No, we dont. It would be nice to get Stanton, but we dont need to make a reactionary move. Nor do we need to make a reactionary move towards Torii signing. They're going to fill their needs with the guys they see fit and on their own time.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 01:50 PM
The Jays have just gained ground AND momentum, we need to do something! They are more than a legitimate threat now.

No. We don't. We need to resist foolishness. Even Napoli+Hamilton+Sanchez will not bring us a WS title this year, or next for that matter.

OMG! I swear I did not see the post above mine when I wrote this....

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 02:00 PM
No. We don't. We need to resist foolishness. Even Napoli+Hamilton+Sanchez will not bring us a WS title this year, or next for that matter.

OMG! I swear I did not see the post above mine when I wrote this....

hahaha nicely said.

todu82
11-14-2012, 02:22 PM
Yeah it's a good deal for Toronto. Johnson, Buehrle and Reyes should do wonders for them.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 02:32 PM
BTW can anyone tell me why the Jays took on Reyes, a guy that doesn't like turf, and may not last long on it?

wolf82
11-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Yeah it's a good deal for Toronto. Johnson, Buehrle and Reyes should do wonders for them.

I doubt it. They took on Buehrle's and Reyes contract for possibly only one year of Johnson, and thats If he stays healthy. (Blue Jays have had issues with keeping their SP healthy for the past 4-5 years.)

IMO It will make them a little better for 1-2 years.

Super.
11-14-2012, 02:44 PM
Ugh, it look like the Marlins fleeced Miami for a new stadium and are back to their old bullshitting ways

Nomar
11-14-2012, 02:46 PM
If Loria isnt selling that team then he is simply ********.

AI
11-14-2012, 02:52 PM
I want Cuban to buy the Marlins :laugh2:

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 02:53 PM
If Loria isnt selling that team then he is simply ********.


•Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria told Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com that the trade was justified. "We finished in last place. Figure it out," he said. Loria added that he's "absolutely not" selling the Marlins. "We have to take a new course," the owner said.

Derp.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 02:59 PM
Lies

TRIUMPHATOR
11-14-2012, 03:11 PM
This isn't directed at all of you, but where are all the trolls after the Farrell "trade."

This is what makes Sports the true reality show. A few weeks ago, we had Red Sox fans cussing us and being disruptive. Now we have nothing other then this.....http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20221114sox_no_thanks_smart_to_avoid_johnson-reyes_megadeal

If the Sox had made this deal , it would have been the best deal in the histrory of baseball....at least you got Farrell.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 03:20 PM
This isn't directed at all of you, but where are all the trolls after the Farrell "trade."

This is what makes Sports the true reality show. A few weeks ago, we had Red Sox fans cussing us and being disruptive. Now we have nothing other then this.....http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20221114sox_no_thanks_smart_to_avoid_johnson-reyes_megadeal

If the Sox had made this deal , it would have been the best deal in the histrory of baseball....at least you got Farrell.

I wouldn't say the opinions in that article are bad at all. Jose Reyes' contract does spell trouble. But for the price Toronto killed it. Also a lot more of you came into our forum than the other way around and that's a fact.

AI
11-14-2012, 03:33 PM
Updating #Marlins payroll figure -- adding in Escobar, Hech, Mathis and the one arb-eligible player (Webb), the current number is ~ $25MM.

Morosi

TRIUMPHATOR
11-14-2012, 03:41 PM
I wouldn't say the opinions in that article are bad at all. Jose Reyes' contract does spell trouble. But for the price Toronto killed it. Also a lot more of you came into our forum than the other way around and that's a fact.

I don't remember seeing you trolling on our site so you are excused. Its great to have intelligent albeit silly jabbing at one another. But when anyone gets a slew of nonsense (especially with Farrell as the spark) its is, unfortunately, a good felling to rub in some faces when karma bites back.

You all would have loved to make this deal. Farrell or Reyes , JJ, and Buerhle. Hmmmm. Come on over trolls, to the rest of you good luck, and here's hoping to seeing you in the alcs.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 03:45 PM
I don't remember seeing you trolling on our site so you are excused. Its great to have intelligent albeit silly jabbing at one another. But when anyone gets a slew of nonsense (especially with Farrell as the spark) its is, unfortunately, a good felling to rub in some faces when karma bites back.

You all would have loved to make this deal. Farrell or Reyes , JJ, and Buerhle. Hmmmm. Come on over trolls, to the rest of you good luck, and here's hoping to seeing you in the alcs.

Those two trades have nothing to do with each other though.

And in terms of the Farrell trade the Red Sox fans were the ones that were generally right, though I know and respect the opinions of guys like Halladay and StayOnBoard.

AI
11-14-2012, 04:25 PM
I don't remember seeing you trolling on our site so you are excused. Its great to have intelligent albeit silly jabbing at one another. But when anyone gets a slew of nonsense (especially with Farrell as the spark) its is, unfortunately, a good felling to rub in some faces when karma bites back.

You all would have loved to make this deal. Farrell or Reyes , JJ, and Buerhle. Hmmmm. Come on over trolls, to the rest of you good luck, and here's hoping to seeing you in the alcs.

Why are you celebrating or trying to rub this trade in the faces of Boston fans? While it was a good trade for you guys, mainly because you only gave up Nicolino and Echevaria, it's not a slam dunk by any means that you will "contend". You still have to play the games and the players have to produce as expected.

My main problems with the deal are:


Reyes, a guy with an extensive injury history (mainly his legs) now has to play half his games on artificial turf for the rest of his career. Am I the only one who has noticed this? Not to mention, division games at Tampa are also on artificial turf. If he can stay healthy, it's a nice get.



Josh Johnson is a FA after this year and also has an extensive injury history. Sure, he was relatively healthy last year but was he that good?

Away: 4.94 ERA, 4.22 FIP, 4.10 xFIP, 1.44 WHIP, 12.3% HR/FB

He got a huge boost from that enormous Miami ballpark and now he's coming to arguably the toughest division in baseball where every park is hitter friendly except Tropicana. Plus I haven't even mentioned the transition from the NL to the AL.



Bonifacio is a good player, offers positional flexibility. Buck blows and Buehrle is old and you are stuck paying him $48M the next 3 years. He also got an enormous boost due to Miami's park.

Away: 4.45 ERA, 5.01 FIP, 4.49 xFIP, 1.55 HR/9, 14.7% HR/FB

Him in the AL East spells nothing but disaster going forward and is hardly anything to celebrate as of right now.

You guys took a leap of faith, a huge risk that could bring in huge rewards but things can also get very ugly very quick. Karma works both ways, don't rub it in any faces because the one getting bit in the arse might end up being you.

Pittz
11-14-2012, 04:34 PM
This isn't directed at all of you, but where are all the trolls after the Farrell "trade."

This is what makes Sports the true reality show. A few weeks ago, we had Red Sox fans cussing us and being disruptive. Now we have nothing other then this.....http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20221114sox_no_thanks_smart_to_avoid_johnson-reyes_megadeal

If the Sox had made this deal , it would have been the best deal in the histrory of baseball....at least you got Farrell.

That article is pretty spot on. The Red Sox aren't in the right position to make that deal, as the Jays are. It would have been a bad deal for the Sox, but it was great for the Jays.

Nomar
11-14-2012, 04:37 PM
Why are you celebrating or trying to rub this trade in the faces of Boston fans? While it was a good trade for you guys, mainly because you only gave up Nicolino and Echevaria, it's not a slam dunk by any means that you will "contend". You still have to play the games and the players have to produce as expected.

My main problems with the deal are:


Reyes, a guy with an extensive injury history (mainly his legs) now has to play half his games on artificial turf for the rest of his career. Am I the only one who has noticed this? Not to mention, division games at Tampa are also on artificial turf. If he can stay healthy, it's a nice get.



Josh Johnson is a FA after this year and also has an extensive injury history. Sure, he was relatively healthy last year but was he that good?

Away: 4.94 ERA, 4.22 FIP, 4.10 xFIP, 1.44 WHIP, 12.3% HR/FB

He got a huge boost from that enormous Miami ballpark and now he's coming to arguably the toughest division in baseball where every park is hitter friendly except Tropicana. Plus I haven't even mentioned the transition from the NL to the AL.



Bonifacio is a good player, offers positional flexibility. Buck blows and Buehrle is old and you are stuck paying him $48M the next 3 years. He also got an enormous boost due to Miami's park.

Away: 4.45 ERA, 5.01 FIP, 4.49 xFIP, 1.55 HR/9, 14.7% HR/FB

Him in the AL East spells nothing but disaster going forward and is hardly anything to celebrate as of right now.

You guys took a leap of faith, a huge risk that could bring in huge rewards but things can also get very ugly very quick. Karma works both ways, don't rub it in any faces because the one getting bit in the arse might end up being you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uimTrK-A2w

At least you guys kept your best specs though. Being able to keep both Sanchez and Syndergaard was impressive. I'm notorious with Jays fans here for being down on Marisnick, I'll have to check if i have a few more believers of that north of the border now. Nicolino is good but not to the extent of your top 2.

AI
11-14-2012, 04:39 PM
I agree. They kept their top guys and gave up minimal talent. Mathis, Yunel, Marisnick, etc are all easily replaceable for the Jays. It was a good deal and I think they took the risk at the correct time. AL East is wide open.

wolf82
11-14-2012, 04:42 PM
Why are you celebrating or trying to rub this trade in the faces of Boston fans? While it was a good trade for you guys, mainly because you only gave up Nicolino and Echevaria, it's not a slam dunk by any means that you will "contend". You still have to play the games and the players have to produce as expected.

My main problems with the deal are:


Reyes, a guy with an extensive injury history (mainly his legs) now has to play half his games on artificial turf for the rest of his career. Am I the only one who has noticed this? Not to mention, division games at Tampa are also on artificial turf. If he can stay healthy, it's a nice get.



Josh Johnson is a FA after this year and also has an extensive injury history. Sure, he was relatively healthy last year but was he that good?

Away: 4.94 ERA, 4.22 FIP, 4.10 xFIP, 1.44 WHIP, 12.3% HR/FB

He got a huge boost from that enormous Miami ballpark and now he's coming to arguably the toughest division in baseball where every park is hitter friendly except Tropicana. Plus I haven't even mentioned the transition from the NL to the AL.



Bonifacio is a good player, offers positional flexibility. Buck blows and Buehrle is old and you are stuck paying him $48M the next 3 years. He also got an enormous boost due to Miami's park.

Away: 4.45 ERA, 5.01 FIP, 4.49 xFIP, 1.55 HR/9, 14.7% HR/FB

Him in the AL East spells nothing but disaster going forward and is hardly anything to celebrate as of right now.

You guys took a leap of faith, a huge risk that could bring in huge rewards but things can also get very ugly very quick. Karma works both ways, don't rub it in any faces because the one getting bit in the arse might end up being you.

I agree, with you 100%. I'm glad the sox didn't pull the trigger on this trade.

Reyes knees concern me on that turf. Johnson is a FA after this year, and most likely will test the FA market. Buehrle is in the twilight of his career.

I do like Johnson...But, I don't think he was worth taking on all those contracts.

Will they be better? Maybe for 2 years then they are stuck with over priced aging Veterans. What will be the point of the trade if JJ leaves after this year?

Nomar
11-14-2012, 04:42 PM
I agree. They kept their top guys and gave up minimal talent. Mathis, Yunel, Marisnick, etc are all easily replaceable for the Jays. It was a good deal and I think they took the risk at the correct time. AL East is wide open.

That was my thought too. It was the perfect time to make a power play and try to take the east. Yankees are on the decline, Sox are pretty much withdrawn from this year, Baltimore isn't a sure 90 win team, and the Rays have to find some offense without sacrificing too much pitching.

Hats off to AA because he may end up looking even better than he does right now if that team stays healthy and Romero/Encarnacion perform to their potential.

Majesty17
11-14-2012, 05:51 PM
http://http://www.csnne.com/redsoxvideo?PID=uvXM2-bs7f9LDCKJMX3QXzv7zRObzNlXjSI1MG (http://www.csnne.com/redsoxvideo?PID=uvXM2-bs7f9LDCKJMX3QXzv7zRObzNlXjSI1MG)

Felger says around the 4:20 mark "at the cost of Kalish, Doubront, and Ciriaco"

Is that all we would have given up for Reyes and Johnson?! Im kind of high on Doubront but I would have taken that.

AI
11-14-2012, 05:59 PM
http://http://www.csnne.com/redsoxvideo?PID=uvXM2-bs7f9LDCKJMX3QXzv7zRObzNlXjSI1MG (http://www.csnne.com/redsoxvideo?PID=uvXM2-bs7f9LDCKJMX3QXzv7zRObzNlXjSI1MG)

Felger says around the 4:20 mark "at the cost of Kalish, Doubront, and Ciriaco"

Is that all we would have given up for Reyes and Johnson?! Im kind of high on Doubront but I would have taken that.

Yeah, pretty sure we all would have taken that deal. Doubront could be a stud going forward if he works on his control, certainly has the stuff.

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 06:18 PM
Reyes has an absolutely poison contract. It's a close race between him and Hamilton as to who will be a huger bust from 2013-2018. Give the Sox $10M each year for the last 4 years of Reyes and he might be worthwhile. Might.

OneManIsNoMan
11-14-2012, 06:59 PM
The Marlins’ asking price was too much for Boston, according to Peter Gammons. Gammons reports that Miami’s brass wanted third baseman Will Middlebrooks, pitcher Felix Doubront and top prospect shortstop Xander Bogaerts.

^This is what they wanted for Reyes & Johnson. Good thing BC didn't do that deal WOW!

Nomar
11-14-2012, 07:06 PM
^this is what they wanted for reyes & johnson. Good thing bc didn't do that deal wow!

lmao

bagwell368
11-14-2012, 07:09 PM
[QUOTE=Majesty17Is that all we would have given up for Reyes and Johnson?! [/QUOTE]

Johnson is injury plagued and gone after a heftily paid season.

Reyes has one of the 8 worst contracts in MLB.

I'd hang up the phone on them.

AI
11-14-2012, 07:41 PM
^This is what they wanted for Reyes & Johnson. Good thing BC didn't do that deal WOW!

Wow, they asked for that and then settled for the Jays scraps? AA must of caught them after happy hour.

Soxfan85
11-15-2012, 01:47 PM
@BNightengale Selig says the #marlins trade is under review

AI
11-15-2012, 01:50 PM
BNightengale Selig says the #marlins trade is under review

God this would be hilarious :laugh2:

StayOnBoard
11-15-2012, 01:54 PM
@BNightengale Selig says the #marlins trade is under review

MLB reviews all trades where major money changes hands. They reviewed the trade last year between Boston and LA too.

It won't be veto'ed, can almost guarantee it.

StayOnBoard
11-15-2012, 01:56 PM
From Roto


Bud Selig said Thursday that the 12-player megatrade between the Marlins and Blue Jays is "under review."
Any swap involving the exchange of money has to approved by Selig, so this is nothing to get too worked up about. It would be downright shocking if the deal got vetoed. As it stands, the Blue Jays will receive Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Emilio Bonifacio, John Buck and $8 million from the Marlins for Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, Henderson Alvarez, Jake Marisnick, Justin Nicolino and Anthony DeSclafani.

AI
11-15-2012, 02:03 PM
Yeah it's standard procedure, deals involving this much cash usually take a while.

Soxfan85
11-15-2012, 02:09 PM
From Roto

Never know I mean look what they asked for the redsox in return. High prospects. And what the Blue Jays sent over. Scrap, Ya I think there is a chance he can veto it

AI
11-15-2012, 02:12 PM
Never know I mean look what they asked for the redsox in return. High prospects. And what the Blue Jays sent over. Scrap, Ya I think there is a chance he can veto it

Doubt it. When was the last time a baseball trade got vetoed? This isn't the NBA. Also, Nicolino isn't "scrap" but he certainly wasn't one of the Blue Jays top 3-4 prospects but he's still a good prospect. Rest of the talent sent was minimal.

StayOnBoard
11-15-2012, 02:19 PM
Doubt it. When was the last time a baseball trade got vetoed? This isn't the NBA. Also, Nicolino isn't "scrap" but he certainly wasn't one of the Blue Jays top 3-4 prospects but he's still a good prospect. Rest of the talent sent was minimal.

Marisnick is pretty decent too actually... and Nicolino would be a top 3 prospect in almost anyone's farm system. Add in guys like Hech and Escobar, plus the huge contract the Jays took on - it's VERY similar to the deal Boston and the Dodgers made last year. Alvarez is a good young pitcher with upside too.

I nearly **** though when I saw the prospects they asked for out of Boston. Feels very double standard to me too so I understand why you'd WANT it to be veto'ed, but it won't be.... I suspect it'll be announced as official sometime this afternoon.

AI
11-15-2012, 02:41 PM
I don't want it to be vetoed, I couldn't care less honestly. I just would love to see TO Rapz reaction if it did. :laugh2:

And yes, I don't understand the Marlins thought by asking us for Bogaerts, Middlebrooks and Doubront then settling for the package they did. I think it has to do with us just asking for Reyes and Johnson, I'm sure that the fact that you guys were willing to take Buehrle/Buck contract off their hands had something do with it.

Nomar
11-15-2012, 02:45 PM
Marisnick is pretty decent too actually... and Nicolino would be a top 3 prospect in almost anyone's farm system.

Marisnick is overrated. Always have said that and now scouts like Sickels are agreeing. You sold him right when he was starting to decline in value. Smart.

Nicolino would be top 3 in the bottom 10 of MLB farm systems. Hes good but not like Syndergaard or Sanchez.

StayOnBoard
11-15-2012, 02:48 PM
Marisnick is overrated. Always have said that and now scouts like Sickels are agreeing. You sold him right when he was starting to decline in value. Smart.

Nicolino would be top 3 in the bottom 10 of MLB farm systems. Hes good but not like Syndergaard or Sanchez.

Lower ceiling, higher floor.... they are all "risks" to some degree. Everyone thought Sanchez was a dud until last year when he was dominant. I do agree with you though - Nicolino is the one of out the 3 I'd rather trade.

Marisnick had a rough year but he's been mashing in the fall league right now.

Keep in mind these guys are still just kids, very hard to project.

AI
11-15-2012, 02:51 PM
Marisnick had a rough year but he's been mashing in the fall league right now.

That really doesn't mean anything though since hitters are supposed to mash at fall league. The pitchers sent there are pitchers organization's normally want to get an extra look at before the Rule 5 Draft.

Nomar
11-15-2012, 02:53 PM
Lower ceiling, higher floor.... they are all "risks" to some degree. Everyone thought Sanchez was a dud until last year when he was dominant. I do agree with you though - Nicolino is the one of out the 3 I'd rather trade.

Marisnick had a rough year but he's been mashing in the fall league right now.

Keep in mind these guys are still just kids, very hard to project.

Everyone mashes in the fall league. Or is supposed to haha. Marisnick is a tools guy, but until he actually shows me power and a better BA i cant see him becoming a very productive RF.

I love Syndergaard though. I think in a few years he'll be one of the games best young pitchers.