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View Full Version : Braves Turned down Simmons for Olt Swap



Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 12:58 AM
I thought this was news worthy enough to make a thread about....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2012/11/09/dodgers-interested-in-torii-hunter-gm-meetings/1695585/


It was an attempt from the Rangers to get Simmons so they could flip him to the D'Backs for Upton.


Braves said 'no'

RaiderKid318
11-13-2012, 01:13 AM
I am SOOOOO Glad we didn't do this. Not that olt isn't good, but Simmons will be the best defensive SS in baseball for years to come and his bat is coming along 10X faster than anyone expected. That being said having Olt on this team would be awesome if we could get him some other way lol.

Tryptamine
11-13-2012, 01:15 AM
I personally prefer Olt, but this make it clear the Braves don't think much of Pastornicky.

RaiderKid318
11-13-2012, 01:18 AM
Pastornicky is god awful and his only chance of being in the bigs is as a utility player or maybe 2B/OF if he can get a solid bat. Plus we have a proven player in prado for 3B, so why trade simmons and make a hole at a key position instead of easier to fill spots (LF and CF).

ATL#22
11-13-2012, 01:20 AM
I think Simmons has the lower floor and higher ceiling.

LakersA's49ers
11-13-2012, 01:21 AM
that would of been an interesting trade. regardless, glad upton hasnt gotten traded to Texas(yet)

Halladay
11-13-2012, 01:25 AM
I am SOOOOO Glad we didn't do this. Not that olt isn't good, but Simmons will be the best defensive SS in baseball for years to come and his bat is coming along 10X faster than anyone expected. That being said having Olt on this team would be awesome if we could get him some other way lol.

Adeiny Hechavarria says hello.

ATL#22
11-13-2012, 01:29 AM
Adeiny Hechavarria says hello.

And simmons says goodbye. Scouting reports were saying he was the best SS in baseball while he was in AA.


Itís hard to believe Simmons might have generated 54 defensive runs saved over a full season, as Baseball Info Solutions suggests. Thatís one less than what full-season leaders Brendan Ryan of the Mariners (28) and Darwin Barney of the Cubs (27) cranked out combined, so itís sort of hard to take seriously. But it does suggest Simmons is going to be one of the biggest impact players on defense for years to come. Add in a much better bat than expected, and heís somebody you wonít forget.

Super.
11-13-2012, 01:30 AM
Adeiny Hechavarria says hello.

Jose Iglesias says 'sup'

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 01:33 AM
Adeiny Hechavarria says hello.

Simmons is already an 80 in both arm and range for the position.

No other shortstop in baseball is currently an 80 at both.

Simmons is Ozzie Smith defensively right now, and as an Ozzie fan, I don't say that lightly.


He is ridiculous defensively.

Rush
11-13-2012, 01:34 AM
Brandon Crawford walks in with his World Series ring...

ATL#22
11-13-2012, 01:35 AM
^And here it starts

Halladay
11-13-2012, 01:37 AM
And simmons says goodbye. Scouting reports were saying he was the best SS in baseball while he was in AA.


Jose Iglesias says 'sup'


Simmons is already an 80 in both arm and range for the position.

No other shortstop in baseball is currently an 80 at both.

Simmons is Ozzie Smith defensively right now, and as an Ozzie fan, I don't say that lightly.


He is ridiculous defensively.

Well I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we?

RaiderKid318
11-13-2012, 01:38 AM
Simmons is already an 80 in both arm and range for the position.

No other shortstop in baseball is currently an 80 at both.

Simmons is Ozzie Smith defensively right now, and as an Ozzie fan, I don't say that lightly.


He is ridiculous defensively.

When a cards fan openly says this about a braves player and all the scouts say Simmons is the top dog defensively it's safe to say he is the best.

Rush
11-13-2012, 01:41 AM
^And here it starts

:laugh2: I'm only joking. I haven't seen Simmons' work. Looking forward to though. I love watching defensive wizards.

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 01:42 AM
Can't trust Daniels after last time. Just hang up the phone. :laugh2: (then :sigh:)

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 01:45 AM
Well I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we?

Certainly.

I find Simmons very very exciting defensively. I don't remember the last time a kid Simmons' age could be compared to Ozzie defensively. I don't think I've ever made that comparison.

Now, Simmons has to put it all together in a full 2013 season defensively. But he could, he has the tools for it. He has to hit well enough to stay at this level, and he has to remain healthy. But he has the tools and at a very young age.


The thing that made Ozzie so special was how smart he was defensively (on top of 80 tools). He didn't just have the tools, he played smart too. If Simmons can do it too, then the sky is the limit for him defensively.

ATL#22
11-13-2012, 01:45 AM
Can't trust Daniels after last time. Just hang up the phone. :laugh2: (then :sigh:)

If they won't budge on Andrus or Profar but are willing to give up Olt that would raise a red flag for me

76ersai0309
11-13-2012, 01:52 AM
People dont understand how godly simmons is at SS.

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 01:54 AM
If they won't budge on Andrus or Profar but are willing to give up Olt that would raise a red flag for me
It's like an ex calling you years later out of nowhere when you've settled down.

Nothing good can come from it, just be nice and decline any and all invites.

rkelly7
11-13-2012, 01:56 AM
looking like hamilton is definitely gone now

Halladay
11-13-2012, 02:45 AM
Certainly.

I find Simmons very very exciting defensively. I don't remember the last time a kid Simmons' age could be compared to Ozzie defensively. I don't think I've ever made that comparison.

Now, Simmons has to put it all together in a full 2013 season defensively. But he could, he has the tools for it. He has to hit well enough to stay at this level, and he has to remain healthy. But he has the tools and at a very young age.


The thing that made Ozzie so special was how smart he was defensively (on top of 80 tools). He didn't just have the tools, he played smart too. If Simmons can do it too, then the sky is the limit for him defensively.
I can't say I've seen much of Simmonds tbh but Hech might be the best Jays SS...ever lol. John McDonald could certainly make a case(not a full time player) and Escobar is no slouch either but Hech is simply unreal with the glove.

Nomar
11-13-2012, 03:10 AM
Iglesias is a better defender than Simmons, but both are great. Simmons is the far superior baseball player though so it doesnt matter.

As for Olt... if he keeps his Ks in check he should be a great hitter. Braves may end up regretting passing on him. At the same time Olt's MLE slash this year wasnt nearly as impressive as you would think. Playing in an offensively heavy league really padded his numbers. I'm also not a fan of how he skipped AAA only to be benched 90% of the time with Texas. The more I read about Olt, the more I get the sense that scouts are doubting him.

ciaban
11-13-2012, 04:43 AM
If they won't budge on Andrus or Profar but are willing to give up Olt that would raise a red flag for me

that's the thing that confused me, i mean, the D-backs want a SS, either give them Profar or trade Andrus for prospects and then give those to the D-Backs, i don't know why they are ***** footing around, you don't want someone else to swoop in.

WOwolfOL
11-13-2012, 04:44 AM
Olt was also arguably too old for AA so while the production was great, he struck out quite a bit to mostly younger players.

HowFit
11-13-2012, 05:30 AM
I personally prefer Olt, but this make it clear the Braves don't think much of Pastornicky.

Huge difference between Simmons and Pastor...I think the Braves not wanting to sway Sims for Olt is a "wise" decision...

Twitchy
11-13-2012, 08:32 AM
The Braves already gave a star SS to the Rangers. Going to be a long time before they give up another SS to them.

mark1125
11-13-2012, 08:34 AM
:laugh2: I'm only joking. I haven't seen Simmons' work. Looking forward to though. I love watching defensive wizards.

As a guy who has to watch Jhonny Peralta's glacieresque range on a daily basis, I must agree.

flea
11-13-2012, 08:49 AM
You don't give up a potentially elite two-way player (and already an elite defender) at probably the most important defensive position to get solidified (not most difficult, but catchers have short shelf-lives) for a 3B prospect with a good but not spectacular bat and good but not spectacular defense. The decision was a no-brainer for anyone except Olt's mother.

jej
11-13-2012, 11:21 AM
Brandon Crawford walks in with his World Series ring...

Jeter comes in and does one of his turn around jump throws that "make him a good fielder", bangs all the women, and leaves.

SenorGato
11-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Wise move....starting SS talent > starting 3B talent, and Olt gets overrated (he's a solid prospect but hardly a stud).

Killer Clown
11-13-2012, 11:26 AM
Ruben Tejada says what's up

the brave eagle
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
i also think it's matter of position too, it's alot more difficult to have a top talent ss then it is 3rd baseman, or it seems to be that 3rd base is a position where you can get by having an ok player

infernoscurse
11-13-2012, 11:56 AM
cito culver says bird is the word

mgsports
11-13-2012, 12:01 PM
Simmons/Delgado/Archer/Minor League OF from the Rays to the Diamondbacks,Upton to the Rays,Lee/Parra so on to the Braves?

thawv
11-13-2012, 12:04 PM
Simmons is insane with his glove and arm!! Atl definitely made the right call here.

natsbats
11-13-2012, 12:07 PM
Simmons is a future superstar, will be a 5 WAR player easily next year if he's healthy, with potential to be a perennial 8 WAR player in his prime years.

Kelly Gruber
11-13-2012, 12:20 PM
Simmons looks like he'll be a solid contact hitter, and an above average MLer, but his bat doesn't scream superstar to me...

jej
11-13-2012, 12:24 PM
Simmons is a future superstar, will be a 5 WAR player easily next year if he's healthy, with potential to be a perennial 8 WAR player in his prime years.

Bahahaahaha yeah right. I don't think you have a great grasp of WAR

I don't think you realize how crazy 8 WAR is. Unless he gets some crazy help from UZR, I don't see that happening.

Josh Hamilton had a 10 UZR, and still had to put up a .445 wOBA and 175 wRC+ to get 8 WAR.

Wrench
11-13-2012, 12:52 PM
His bat will hold him back but anything above 270/330/380 with the D he plays would be awesome.

natsbats
11-13-2012, 12:53 PM
He was at 2.8 rWAR through 182 plate appearances. Prorate what he did to 600 plate appearances and he would be well over 8 WAR as is.....and that was as a rookie.

Imagine in his prime years what he could do. He has a realistic shot at getting close to 10 WAR if he plays 150+ games as has close to 650 plate appearances.

natsbats
11-13-2012, 12:55 PM
I don't know why you guys are harping on his bat, his bat speed is amazing....and he doesn't strike out. He's only going to improve.

RaiderKid318
11-13-2012, 12:57 PM
Simmons/Delgado/Archer/Minor League OF from the Rays to the Diamondbacks,Upton to the Rays,Lee/Parra so on to the Braves?

God no lol

jej
11-13-2012, 12:59 PM
That is absolutely crazy.

He was a 2.2 fWAR player with a 10 UZR, and a little above average offense which is where I expect him to stay. I can see 6 WAR due to the defense, but 10 WAR cannot be thrown around like that.

Trout was a 10 war player with an 11 UZR, and look at the offense he had to produce. Simmons won't get anywhere close to Trouts offense.

Once again, I don't think you have a great grasp of WAR.

Young2Kinsler
11-13-2012, 01:09 PM
While I can see why the Braves wouldn't want to do this, people are nuts if they think Simmons is a 8WAR player

natsbats
11-13-2012, 01:15 PM
That is absolutely crazy.

He was a 2.2 fWAR player with a 10 UZR, and a little above average offense which is where I expect him to stay. I can see 6 WAR due to the defense, but 10 WAR cannot be thrown around like that.

Trout was a 10 war player with an 11 UZR, and look at the offense he had to produce. Simmons won't get anywhere close to Trouts offense.

Once again, I don't think you have a great grasp of WAR.

I never said fan graphs WAR, I said reference WAR.

Simmons was a 2.8 WAR player in 180+ plate appearances, prorate that to 600 plate appearances and he's over 8 WAR. Tell me, oh great one, how it's crazy to think Simmons could be a consistent 8WAR player in his prime, with a outside crack at 10 WAR?

HE WAS ALREADY ON PACE TO BE A 8+ WAR PLAYER THIS YEAR IF HE GOT ENOUGH PLATE APPEARANCES! And it's not like he was smoking hot with his bat in that time frame, 102 wRC+ and a .324 wOBA.....not exactly numbers he can't sustain or even get better.

:facepalm:

ATL#22
11-13-2012, 01:16 PM
8 WAR is rare from anyone

HowFit
11-13-2012, 01:18 PM
He was at 2.8 rWAR through 182 plate appearances. Prorate what he did to 600 plate appearances and he would be well over 8 WAR as is.....and that was as a rookie.

Imagine in his prime years what he could do. He has a realistic shot at getting close to 10 WAR if he plays 150+ games as has close to 650 plate appearances.

Anything is possible...

miller74
11-13-2012, 01:28 PM
Jose Iglesias says 'sup'

sup to 2nd base, like what happened in Cuba? when he and hech were on the same team

jej
11-13-2012, 01:30 PM
I never said fan graphs WAR, I said reference WAR.

Simmons was a 2.8 WAR player in 180+ plate appearances, prorate that to 600 plate appearances and he's over 8 WAR. Tell me, oh great one, how it's crazy to think Simmons could be a consistent 8WAR player in his prime, with a outside crack at 10 WAR?

HE WAS ALREADY ON PACE TO BE A 8+ WAR PLAYER THIS YEAR IF HE GOT ENOUGH PLATE APPEARANCES! And it's not like he was smoking hot with his bat in that time frame, 102 wRC+ and a .324 wOBA.....not exactly numbers he can't sustain or even get better.

:facepalm:

Stop with the victim **** first of all.

Things change when you play another 100 games. Who knows of his defense stays where it is. Of course his offense can improve, but his defense can also drop.

2.4 of his rWAR came from defense. I think it's safe to say that rate is a little unsustainable. Trout only had a 2.1 WAR in 90 more games. Do you really think Simmons is that much better of a defender than Trout? I don't. 3 dWAR and 1-2 oWAR is probably what you can expect from him.

Learn how this stuff works before talking about it. WAR can decrease just as easy as it can decrease. We all know how ****** defensive metrics are. When someone's dWAR is that high, you have to be a little skeptical with such a small sample.

natsbats
11-13-2012, 01:43 PM
His defense will stay where it is because he's that good at it. Not like he's going to lose his range or arm anytime soon.

Like I said, 5 WAR next year....8 WAR in his prime....with an outside shot at 10WAR at his peak. You'll see. I think his offense has 130 wRC+ potential easily and his bat has a .375 wOBA potential.

Pair those two together with his amazing defense and you got the formula for a monster WAR player.

natsbats
11-13-2012, 01:44 PM
It's not like he was just on fire on defense for this year alone, he has been a beast in the minors as well. I think we've seen enough of a track record to come to the conclusion his defense is what it is at this point.

jej
11-13-2012, 01:55 PM
There is no indication of him being a .375/135 guy. No idea where you get that from. That's MVP stuff.

I don't doubt his defense is legit. But Trout is the best defensive outfielder in the AL, and maybe the league, and he only had 2.1 dWAR. Do you think Simmons will be THAT much better than him defensively? Unless Simmons is the best defensive shortstop ever, he will not be a 8-10 WAR guy.

I think you are just throwing these numbers around without knowing what they mean. His career minor league OPS is like .750. What make you believe he will all the sudden have All Star offense?

ciaban
11-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Stop with the victim **** first of all.

Things change when you play another 100 games. Who knows of his defense stays where it is. Of course his offense can improve, but his defense can also drop.

2.4 of his rWAR came from defense. I think it's safe to say that rate is a little unsustainable. Trout only had a 2.1 WAR in 90 more games. Do you really think Simmons is that much better of a defender than Trout? I don't. 3 dWAR and 1-2 oWAR is probably what you can expect from him.

Learn how this stuff works before talking about it. WAR can decrease just as easy as it can decrease. We all know how ****** defensive metrics are. When someone's dWAR is that high, you have to be a little skeptical with such a small sample.
peter bourjos is!

jej
11-13-2012, 02:01 PM
I'm sure he is. Are you a Dodger or Angel fan? Or whoever is more convenient at that time?

ugafan
11-13-2012, 02:24 PM
I think Simmons is a consistent 3-4 win player. I like Olt a lot but we can't afford to trade Simmons at this point.

Anybody claiming that a player on their favorite team is better than Simmons defensively is wrong. Not much else to it. He's, in my mind and in many others minds, the best defensive player in baseball.

ugafan
11-13-2012, 02:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/26348/braves-rookie-simmons-already-elite-ss

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22364337&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22106409&c_id=mlb

Miltstar
11-13-2012, 02:35 PM
I never said fan graphs WAR, I said reference WAR.

Simmons was a 2.8 WAR player in 180+ plate appearances, prorate that to 600 plate appearances and he's over 8 WAR. Tell me, oh great one, how it's crazy to think Simmons could be a consistent 8WAR player in his prime, with a outside crack at 10 WAR?

HE WAS ALREADY ON PACE TO BE A 8+ WAR PLAYER THIS YEAR IF HE GOT ENOUGH PLATE APPEARANCES! And it's not like he was smoking hot with his bat in that time frame, 102 wRC+ and a .324 wOBA.....not exactly numbers he can't sustain or even get better.

:facepalm:


Small Sample Size!!! :facepalm: You can't just prorate a small sample size in a rookie season across a whole career! This is one of the more ignorant things I've read in a while.

Take for example Mike Trout and Brett Lawrie from 2011. Using your logic Brett Lawrie was the next George Brett and Mike Trout would be the next Peter Bourjous!

Let the kid at least get a full season under his belt before you go pronouncing him a Hall of Famer!

VRP723
11-13-2012, 02:37 PM
I think Simmons is a consistent 3-4 win player. I like Olt a lot but we can't afford to trade Simmons at this point.

Anybody claiming that a player on their favorite team is better than Simmons defensively is wrong. Not much else to it. He's, in my mind and in many others minds, the best defensive player in baseball.

Most scouts I've heard/read said Jose Iglesias is the best defensive SS we've had in the minors in 10+ years.

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 02:46 PM
His bat will hold him back but anything above 270/330/380 with the D he plays would be awesome.

yeah, I think that slash line is reasonable to think he will do.


With his potentially elite defense, he would be a 3 WAR shortstop, with maybe some 4 WAR seasons.

His bat won't be great, I think this kid will be a lot like Ozzie. Great defense, weak bat, minus the base running.

If he is healthy and has a long term career, you could see a perennial all-star, but unlikely hall of famer.

Still, a consistent 3 WAR shortstop that takes away base hits all day has value, especially when you have 6 years of control over him.

I don't know as much about Olt to really say what I think he will do or what his value potentially is.

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 02:49 PM
Most scouts I've heard/read said Jose Iglesias is the best defensive SS we've had in the minors in 10+ years.

I would like to see a debate among scouts that have seen both a lot.


Simmons is really smooth with an absolute cannon.

I don't know enough about Iglesias' defense other than it is great.

I know his bat is really holding him back though.

ugafan
11-13-2012, 02:49 PM
Most scouts I've heard/read said Jose Iglesias is the best defensive SS we've had in the minors in 10+ years.

I say you're wrong and they're idiots!

In all seriousness, I've heard the same about Simmons. They're probably similar defensively I'm sure but Iglesias isn't a viable major league player at this point. His bat is very far away from ML-ready.

Nomar
11-13-2012, 02:51 PM
I think Simmons is a consistent 3-4 win player. I like Olt a lot but we can't afford to trade Simmons at this point.

Anybody claiming that a player on their favorite team is better than Simmons defensively is wrong. Not much else to it. He's, in my mind and in many others minds, the best defensive player in baseball.

Scouts have all said Iglesias is the best defensive SS in over a decade. Simmons hada great UZR/150 this year but it was a SSS. I'll take the opinion of scouts.

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 02:55 PM
His defense will stay where it is because he's that good at it. Not like he's going to lose his range or arm anytime soon.

Like I said, 5 WAR next year....8 WAR in his prime....with an outside shot at 10WAR at his peak. You'll see. I think his offense has 130 wRC+ potential easily and his bat has a .375 wOBA potential.

Pair those two together with his amazing defense and you got the formula for a monster WAR player.

Even if he produces a .375 wOBA and a 130 wRC+, the best he could be is a 8 fWAR, 5 rWAR with elite defense.

But I highly doubt he will be that good offensively, which is what Aaron Hill and Yadi did that this year.

VRP723
11-13-2012, 02:59 PM
I would like to see a debate among scouts that have seen both a lot.


Simmons is really smooth with an absolute cannon.

I don't know enough about Iglesias' defense other than it is great.

I know his bat is really holding him back though.


I say you're wrong and they're idiots!

In all seriousness, I've heard the same about Simmons. They're probably similar defensively I'm sure but Iglesias isn't a viable major league player at this point. His bat is very far away from ML-ready.

I know Goldstein and Parks used to talk about Simmons having an 8 arm and being and being a great defender, but both said everyone they talked to claimed Iglesias was the only true 80 SS the minors had seen in years.

Obviously Simmons is a much better player and prospect than Iglesias though, as Jose couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

I think I prefer Simmons to Olt, but I'm a big fan of Olt, mostly because he went to UConn. Also I hear he has the glove to stick at 3B, which would be huge for his career.

VRP723
11-13-2012, 03:00 PM
He was at 2.8 rWAR through 182 plate appearances. Prorate what he did to 600 plate appearances and he would be well over 8 WAR as is.....and that was as a rookie.

Imagine in his prime years what he could do. He has a realistic shot at getting close to 10 WAR if he plays 150+ games as has close to 650 plate appearances.

Hahahahahaha, what? 10 WAR?!

ugafan
11-13-2012, 03:01 PM
I think I prefer Simmons to Olt, but I'm a big fan of Olt, mostly because he went to UConn. Also I hear he has the glove to stick at 3B, which would be huge for his career.

I think he could work at 3B but he'd be well-below average. Glove is more suited at 1B or a corner OF spot. If he does in fact get his glove to passable at 3B though, I like him better than Simmons going forward.

Tryptamine
11-13-2012, 03:06 PM
I think he could work at 3B but he'd be well-below average. Glove is more suited at 1B or a corner OF spot. If he does in fact get his glove to passable at 3B though, I like him better than Simmons going forward.

Everything I'd read has said he has a well above average glove at 3B. Not sure where you're getting that he's unlikely to be even passable at 3B.

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 03:08 PM
I know Goldstein and Parks used to talk about Simmons having an 8 arm and being and being a great defender, but both said everyone they talked to claimed Iglesias was the only true 80 SS the minors had seen in years.

Obviously Simmons is a much better player and prospect than Iglesias though, as Jose couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.


okay, thanks

sexicano31
11-13-2012, 03:09 PM
Hahahahahaha, what? 10 WAR?!

Thats like the guy saying that Simmons was the best SS in the league based on WAR/600 PA even tho he had like 200 PA

jej
11-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Thats like the guy saying that Simmons was the best SS in the league based on WAR/600 PA even tho he had like 200 PA

Wait, the 2.8 WAR is already extrapolated? If so,**** me man, I went thru all the other ****.

RaiderKid318
11-13-2012, 03:41 PM
This turned into a pissing contest pretty quickly lol

ugafan
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Everything I'd read has said he has a well above average glove at 3B. Not sure where you're getting that he's unlikely to be even passable at 3B.
Yeah, you're totally correct. I had somebody else in mind, my bad.


Dimethyltryptamine.

VRP723
11-13-2012, 03:51 PM
Wow uga come on loser, you gotta know things better!

RTL
11-13-2012, 04:02 PM
I'd really love to read just how many of you have ever seen any of the players discussed actually play. I'm willing to bet it's less than 10 games combined.

Getting UGGLA
11-13-2012, 04:09 PM
Julio Iglesias ain't got sh** on Simmons. What's he gonna do, sing him a song?

popo85
11-13-2012, 04:15 PM
that would of been an interesting trade. regardless, glad upton hasnt gotten traded to Texas(yet)

So am i

Nomar
11-13-2012, 04:16 PM
In SSS Iglesias has a higher UZR than Simmons and scouts say Iglesias is the best defensive SS in the game.

Simmons is the better player, but Iglesias is the better defender. I don't see why it's such a big deal to Braves fans that their guy has to be "the best". Iglesias sucks *** anyway hes nothing to get upset over.

The end.

flea
11-13-2012, 04:21 PM
In SSS Iglesias has a higher UZR than Simmons and scouts say Iglesias is the best defensive SS in the game.

Simmons is the better player, but Iglesias is the better defender. I don't see why it's such a big deal to Braves fans that their guy has to be "the best". Iglesias sucks *** anyway hes nothing to get upset over.

The end.

The argument you're trying to make is akin to prime Mantle versus prime Mays. Not only that but you're trying to guess what each is going to be like when they're major league regulars. And as evidence for your prognostication you're using minor league (eek) UZR (double eek) stats. They're both so good it's impossible to know.

HowFit
11-13-2012, 04:53 PM
In SSS Iglesias has a higher UZR than Simmons and scouts say Iglesias is the best defensive SS in the game.

Simmons is the better player, but Iglesias is the better defender. I don't see why it's such a big deal to Braves fans that their guy has to be "the best". Iglesias sucks *** anyway hes nothing to get upset over.

The end.

Sounds like you're making a big deal about it too :rolleyes:

BrianWestKins
11-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Adeiny Hechavarria says hello.


Jose Iglesias says 'sup'

Derek Jeter says "hold mah dick"

BrianWestKins
11-13-2012, 05:15 PM
In SSS Iglesias has a higher UZR than Simmons and scouts say Iglesias is the best defensive SS in the game.

Simmons is the better player, but Iglesias is the better defender. I don't see why it's such a big deal to Braves fans that their guy has to be "the best". Iglesias sucks *** anyway hes nothing to get upset over.

The end.

How could "the best defensive shortstop in the game" suck ***? That doesn't make any sense.

flea
11-13-2012, 05:23 PM
How could "the best defensive shortstop in the game" suck ***? That doesn't make any sense.

He can't hit.

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 05:28 PM
How could "the best defensive shortstop in the game" suck ***? That doesn't make any sense.

You can be awesome defensively and not be a good ball player. There is more to baseball than just defense, or just offense, etc.

BrianWestKins
11-13-2012, 05:30 PM
He can't hit.

Brendan Ryan can't hit. He's probably the best comp (although I'd imagine Iglesias can hit a little better than him) and he certainly does not suck ***. Just look at the wars

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 05:32 PM
Brendan Ryan can't hit. He's probably the best comp (although I'd imagine Iglesias can hit a little better than him) and he certainly does not suck ***. Just look at the wars

Brendan Ryan is a significantly better hitter than Igelsias.

BrianWestKins
11-13-2012, 05:37 PM
Brendan Ryan is a significantly better hitter than Igelsias.

As of right now, of course. Iglesias is still very young and I'd imagine with time he'd at the very least get to Ryan's level of ****** hitting.

flea
11-13-2012, 05:38 PM
Brendan Ryan can't hit. He's probably the best comp (although I'd imagine Iglesias can hit a little better than him) and he certainly does not suck ***. Just look at the wars

Every player who has been a major league regular for any period of time is a fabulous hitter when compared to the overall pool of hitters (just the ones in professional baseball, leave aside folks like you and me).

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 05:41 PM
As of right now, of course. Iglesias is still very young and I'd imagine with time he'd at the very least get to Ryan's level of ****** hitting.

Well, Brendan Ryan does have a career OPS better than Iglesias career minor league OPS (and his minor league OPS was .100 points higher than Iglesias)

But Iglesias is very young, so we'll see.


You can shake a tree and find all glove, no bat shortstops in the minor leagues. It's a very common thing to have.

I am willing to bet every organization has at least 5 in their farm system, that if they could only learn to hit, they would be valuable ball players. But they can't and don't.

Iglesias has a special glove, and he is very young, that's what potentially separates him.

Tragedy
11-13-2012, 07:23 PM
I am SOOOOO Glad we didn't do this. Not that olt isn't good, but Simmons will be the best defensive SS in baseball for years to come and his bat is coming along 10X faster than anyone expected. That being said having Olt on this team would be awesome if we could get him some other way lol.

Adeiny Hechavarria says hello.
Hello Marlins

Vinny642
11-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Does Simmons still count as a rookie next season?

ATL#22
11-14-2012, 12:14 PM
Does Simmons still count as a rookie next season?

The limit is 130 AB's and he had 166 :(

Nomar
11-14-2012, 02:22 PM
He probably wouldnt win rookie of the year anyways because the MLB doesnt like to recognize defense as an aspect of the game. :rolleyes: