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View Full Version : D'antoni's lack of defense



Evolution23
11-12-2012, 07:12 PM
All I heard about him was he can't coach defense ever and he will never win a ring with that philosophy. Now all I see are Laker fans all happy with this move. I'm sorry but now all you Laker fans are going crazy for this move while you were bashing him when he was in PHX and NY. So which one is it? Is D'antoni finally going to be a defensive coach or was it always about the players?

Avenged
11-12-2012, 07:15 PM
Hmm.. I don't know but in the Lakers forum the majority don't agree with this move. :shrug: Impressive memory btw if you can actually remember all us Laker fans bashing him not only in his Knicks day but way back to his Phoenix days. :speechless:

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 07:16 PM
Well, he has DEFENDERS, guys who are conditioned to play defensively, and do it well in Dwight, Artest, and even Kobe when motivated. I am not sure the Lakers need a top 10 defense however, if he can get the PnR game with Nash working quickly.

Andrew32
11-12-2012, 07:18 PM
This is one of those wait and see situations.

The offenses Pringles ran might not be effective with this Laker roster and he has never coached a good defensive team.

Still coaches aren't everything and the team has many talented players I won't count them out no matter who is coaching them.

KB24PG16
11-12-2012, 07:19 PM
hopefully mcmillan comes along too

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, he has DEFENDERS, guys who are conditioned to play defensively, and do it well in Dwight, Artest, and even Kobe when motivated. I am not sure the Lakers need a top 10 defense however, if he can get the PnR game with Nash working quickly.

I'm just surprised to not hear a lot of backlash about the defense. You give up on a defensive specialist to bring in a guy that's known to be "clueless" about defense, to a team that is one of the worse defensive teams in the league.

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 07:22 PM
This is one of those wait and see situations.

The offenses Pringles ran might not be effective with this Laker roster and he has never coached a good defensive team.

Still coaches aren't everything and the team has many talented players I won't count them out no matter who is coaching them.

Well who is shooting all these 3's at a high rate of the Lakers? Nash and Meeks are the only great shooters on the team.

justinnum1
11-12-2012, 07:23 PM
hopefully mcmillan comes along too

Mcmillan isn't that good at defense. his teams were never better than 15th in defensive efficiency. Dont confuse slow pace with good defense.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 07:23 PM
I'm just surprised to not hear a lot of backlash about the defense. You give up on a defensive specialist to bring in a guy that's known to be "clueless" about defense, to a team that is one of the worse defensive teams in the league.

Its not like D'Antonio's contending teams were bottom feeders on defense. He is not good at it, but not as bad as many make him out to be. Besides, having Dwight Howard does wonders for a defense.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 07:24 PM
Well who is shooting all these 3's at a high rate of the Lakers? Nash and Meeks are the only great shooters on the team.

Artest isn't a bad corner 3 ball shooter honestly. he just sucks balls everywhere else.

C-Style
11-12-2012, 07:29 PM
His D is a concern I just hope that the players play hard on D

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 07:31 PM
Its not like D'Antonio's contending teams were bottom feeders on defense. He is not good at it, but not as bad as many make him out to be. Besides, having Dwight Howard does wonders for a defense.

They were ranked 14th which is pretty much the middle of the pack. But the Lakers are not looking to be mediocre, they are here to win it all.

Knicks21
11-12-2012, 07:32 PM
McMillan and D'antoni are polar opposites.

Knicks21
11-12-2012, 07:33 PM
The real issue here is John Kuester is out of work.

ManRam
11-12-2012, 07:36 PM
D'Antoni has had problems letting other coaches work his defense. He's kind of always been stubborn in that guard. If he lets anyone that's not him work with the defense, they'll be fine. The personnel shouldn't have problems being elite or at the very least close to elite on defense.

It's cliche, but as long as Dwight is there, they'll be fine. SVG was a GREAT defensive coach, but still the bulk of it was Dwight. He isn't quite covering the ground he once did, but he'll get there.

310Casper
11-12-2012, 07:37 PM
He is recruiting Nate McMillan to come coach defense.

Keep crying.

C-Style
11-12-2012, 07:38 PM
Well weren't the Magic pretty good defensively??? With Turk, Nelson & Lewis

ManRam
11-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Well weren't the Magic pretty good defensively??? With Turk, Nelson & Lewis

Up until last season they had been top 3-5 in defensive efficiency perennially. He really is as impacting on defense as anyone can imagine.

ink
11-12-2012, 07:40 PM
They were ranked 14th which is pretty much the middle of the pack. But the Lakers are not looking to be mediocre, they are here to win it all.

Middle of the pack is not that bad. They're not planning to win with defence anyway. And as Hawkeye says, having D12 up the middle will do wonders. He's never had a defensive anchor like that before.

LakersMaster24
11-12-2012, 07:43 PM
Seeing Hawkeye view this as a decent hiring, made me feel a lot better. Knowing how much he dislikes the Lakers, i'd expect him to rejoice haha.

:phew:

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 07:58 PM
They were ranked 14th which is pretty much the middle of the pack. But the Lakers are not looking to be mediocre, they are here to win it all.

The Suns had the talent to win it all, the breaks didn't fall their way. And Phoenix didn't have a Dwight Howard manning the middle, they used Raja and Shawn as their best. Not saying this makes the Lakers real contenders just yet, with Mike's track record, a middle of the pack defense is expected (though does anyone think Dwight will not get them around a top 10 defense alone?), and does the 39 year old Nash, 1400 games on his knees Kobe, terrible Artest, and no bench have the ability to finish top 2-3 in offense? That is what was needed with the Suns...

NBAfan4life
11-12-2012, 07:59 PM
I don't like the move. You don't fire your coach after training camp, after pre-season, and after few games and not take the only proven coach willing to take your team to a championship. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm hoping for the best though

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-12-2012, 08:04 PM
His teams in Phoenix were ranked 17th, 16th,13th,and 16th with Steve Nash and Amare on the team. I would say he would have to be at least a decent defensive coach to even get them that high with those two guys who cant guard a lamp post. Last year the Lakers were 15th. I dont think he has to perform a miracle.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
His teams in Phoenix were ranked 17th, 16th,13th,and 16th with Steve Nash and Amare on the team. I would say he would have to be at least a decent defensive coach to even get them that high with those two guys who cant guard a lamp post. Last year the Lakers were 15th. I dont think he has to perform a miracle.

well, they also employed Marion and Bell, who were their elite defenders. But yeah, having Dwight in the paint will do wonders, and Artest and Kobe are still plus defenders, Pau whatever.

Mike D is not a defensive guru, but as long as he gives some rope to assistants, the Lakers can hover around top 10 because of Dwight alone.

AddiX
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Nate should be the head coach, not the assistant. I've liked him since he was in Seattle.

And mike d is that bad on defense. Don't kid yourselves. Let's see how long Dwight can last in this system doing all the work ge will be asked to do.

And fans here need to be reminded, Nash can't handle a heavy load either anymore. Mike is going to work these boys to the bone.

Aust
11-12-2012, 08:12 PM
I wasn't happy with this move. Mike was my 3rd choice behind PJ and Nate M, maybe 4th if you include Brian Shaw lol.
Kobe, Dwight and Metta are going to have to play well on D. Nash and Dwight are going to have to cover each others deficiencies. We're going to need the DPOY Dwight to be successful.

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Middle of the pack is not that bad. They're not planning to win with defence anyway. And as Hawkeye says, having D12 up the middle will do wonders. He's never had a defensive anchor like that before.

He did have Tyson Chandler, the reigning defensive player of the year. I think you can call him a defensive anchor.

JC_
11-12-2012, 08:14 PM
I'm excited to see this. I think the Lakers are prepared to play for him (unlike Carmelo) so it should be fun to watch.

Aust
11-12-2012, 08:16 PM
He is recruiting Nate McMillan to come coach defense.

Keep crying.

HOLY ****! YESSSSS! Please come Nate :pray:

:dance:

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-12-2012, 08:20 PM
well, they also employed Marion and Bell, who were their elite defenders. But yeah, having Dwight in the paint will do wonders, and Artest and Kobe are still plus defenders, Pau whatever.

Mike D is not a defensive guru, but as long as he gives some rope to assistants, the Lakers can hover around top 10 because of Dwight alone.

Yeah, they did have some good defenders. Really Marion to be honest. Bell was okay but I though he was a little overrated.

I agree and hope that Dwight can make the difference. Last year Chandler made a huge difference for the Knicks and had them ranked as a top 5 defense. I know it was not 'Antoni's doing and he did not learn about D over night. I hope the personel is what truly drives a good defense.

My main concern will be the 3 point shooting. We have none. I could see long jumpers turning into run outs for other teams (Thunder) and the long slow Lakers not being able to keep up.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-12-2012, 08:22 PM
He did have Tyson Chandler, the reigning defensive player of the year. I think you can call him a defensive anchor.

And he had a top 5 defense the one year he had a defensive anchor. So whats your point?

Gritz
11-12-2012, 08:25 PM
Mcmillan isn't that good at defense. his teams were never better than 15th in defensive efficiency. Dont confuse slow pace with good defense.

You just checked espn lol

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 08:26 PM
The Suns had the talent to win it all, the breaks didn't fall their way. And Phoenix didn't have a Dwight Howard manning the middle, they used Raja and Shawn as their best. Not saying this makes the Lakers real contenders just yet, with Mike's track record, a middle of the pack defense is expected (though does anyone think Dwight will not get them around a top 10 defense alone?), and does the 39 year old Nash, 1400 games on his knees Kobe, terrible Artest, and no bench have the ability to finish top 2-3 in offense? That is what was needed with the Suns...

Exactly, Their defense may become top 10 but that's only because of Dwight Howard becoming healthy again. That may take up to 2 months. But I just don't see the shooters they need to be a top 5 offensive team.

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 08:27 PM
And he had a top 5 defense the one year he had a defensive anchor. So whats your point?

That it wasn't all on D'antoni, and more on the players. Lakers weak defense couldn't even be fixed by Mike Brown.

calibird707
11-12-2012, 08:32 PM
Defense is 90% effort.....those knicks and suns teams never had an eraser in the middle like dwight...im not counting the one year of tyson chandler

Kashmir13579
11-12-2012, 08:39 PM
What is evolutions point, here? Out of one mouth the guy disliked D'antoni but now he like, wants LA fans to apologize for bashing D'antoni when he was with NYK. There is no point to this thread.

ink
11-12-2012, 08:47 PM
He did have Tyson Chandler, the reigning defensive player of the year. I think you can call him a defensive anchor.

I don't even think about that dysfunctional Knicks group. And he only had Chandler briefly before he was fired. I was talking about his Suns days.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 08:50 PM
Yeah, they did have some good defenders. Really Marion to be honest. Bell was okay but I though he was a little overrated.

I agree and hope that Dwight can make the difference. Last year Chandler made a huge difference for the Knicks and had them ranked as a top 5 defense. I know it was not 'Antoni's doing and he did not learn about D over night. I hope the personel is what truly drives a good defense.

My main concern will be the 3 point shooting. We have none. I could see long jumpers turning into run outs for other teams (Thunder) and the long slow Lakers not being able to keep up.

expect a James Jones, or someone that Mike likes to be picked up.

justinnum1
11-12-2012, 09:01 PM
surprised they havent tried to sign peatrus yet

Teeboy1487
11-12-2012, 09:07 PM
I didn't like the hire personally. This is what I hate about him. There is nothing wrong with running but defense has to be a focus. I'm skeptical about Mike D to say the least.

kobebabe
11-12-2012, 09:11 PM
All I heard about him was he can't coach defense ever and he will never win a ring with that philosophy. Now all I see are Laker fans all happy with this move. I'm sorry but now all you Laker fans are going crazy for this move while you were bashing him when he was in PHX and NY. So which one is it? Is D'antoni finally going to be a defensive coach or was it always about the players?

Don't know where you got those facts but they are completely the opposite. Take a minute and visit the laker forum. Majority of Lakers Fans are actually not happy with the move. Most wanted Phil

Greedy22
11-12-2012, 09:23 PM
That it wasn't all on D'antoni, and more on the players. Lakers weak defense couldn't even be fixed by Mike Brown.

Their defense actually regressed under Mike Brown.

SportsFanatic10
11-12-2012, 09:48 PM
I didn't like the hire personally. This is what I hate about him. There is nothing wrong with running but defense has to be a focus. I'm skeptical about Mike D to say the least.

yeah i would be too, an older team with the best front court in the league should be more of a half court team imo. but nash is gonna thrive.

BKdoubleStacker
11-12-2012, 10:04 PM
this isnt video games, d'antoni isnt controlling the players with a controller

the defense will be fine with dwight in the paint

Matrix3132
11-12-2012, 10:06 PM
All I heard about him was he can't coach defense ever and he will never win a ring with that philosophy. Now all I see are Laker fans all happy with this move. I'm sorry but now all you Laker fans are going crazy for this move while you were bashing him when he was in PHX and NY. So which one is it? Is D'antoni finally going to be a defensive coach or was it always about the players?

The lakers seem pretty mixed on the hiring. I'm a knick fan and if anything knick fans should give excited laker fans a pass because knick fans have been acting like woodson is the best coach in the world not named phil jackson:shrug:

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 10:09 PM
Don't know where you got those facts but they are completely the opposite. Take a minute and visit the laker forum. Majority of Lakers Fans are actually not happy with the move. Most wanted Phil

Maybe on this forum that is true but the response it's pretty much split down the middle on MD.

BKLYNpigeon
11-12-2012, 10:21 PM
who cares... It should be fun to watch the showtime Lakers.

The NBA is a joke of a League, its just entertainment.

BKLYNpigeon
11-12-2012, 10:30 PM
This is a pointless thread....CLOSE IT.

people are discussing the same thing in the other D'Antoni threads.

Evolution23
11-12-2012, 11:48 PM
This is a pointless thread....CLOSE IT.

people are discussing the same thing in the other D'Antoni threads.

Why are you here? Stop wasting your time. Go watch some other sport.

Jarvo
11-13-2012, 12:17 AM
Let's just see how it goes, Me I say a month and gone lol hope I'm wrong.

Gibby23
11-13-2012, 01:20 AM
Exactly, Their defense may become top 10 but that's only because of Dwight Howard becoming healthy again. That may take up to 2 months. But I just don't see the shooters they need to be a top 5 offensive team.

And? I don't see the Knicks beating the Heat. Why don't they get players to get the job done instead of a guy that has been out of the 1st round once? See how stupid it sounds?

AddiX
11-13-2012, 01:38 AM
You guys are assuming Dwight can play at his highest level on d and offense In a high paced system for a full season coming off back surgery. That's a lot to ask.

Don't sleep on mike ds ability to burn his players out.

Also need to remember, Nash isn't going to be playing the same amt minutes as he once did

Gibby23
11-13-2012, 02:06 AM
You guys are assuming Dwight can play at his highest level on d and offense In a high paced system for a full season coming off back surgery. That's a lot to ask.

Don't sleep on mike ds ability to burn his players out.

Also need to remember, Nash isn't going to be playing the same amt minutes as he once did

I know knicks fans have opinions, but what do you guys know about winning basketball?

AddiX
11-13-2012, 02:34 AM
I know knicks fans have opinions, but what do you guys know about winning basketball?

This has nothing to do w being a Knicks fan, stop being a weak minded inbred with played out internet insults and stick to the topic for once.

Gibby23
11-13-2012, 02:45 AM
This has nothing to do w being a Knicks fan, stop being a weak minded inbred with played out internet insults and stick to the topic for once.

You didn't say anything new though. You said Nash can't play the same mins because he is old... No ****... Thanks... Now, lets see what the knicks win.

JayW_1023
11-13-2012, 06:22 AM
Mike D hasn't even coached one game and already he gets hated on.

Lakers fans...

kbtwofour
11-13-2012, 06:37 AM
All I heard about him was he can't coach defense ever and he will never win a ring with that philosophy. Now all I see are Laker fans all happy with this move. I'm sorry but now all you Laker fans are going crazy for this move while you were bashing him when he was in PHX and NY. So which one is it? Is D'antoni finally going to be a defensive coach or was it always about the players?

Who said he was a great defensive coach? People forget that Mike never had great defensive players on his team. His two best defensive players were Bell and Marion with the Suns. He had two all star players who never play defensive and are lazy on defense. When has Melo and Amare ever play defensive for a whole game?

Edit: A few of Phil's Laker teams were not that great defensively and still won championships.

Daze9900
11-13-2012, 08:05 AM
The defense he's had has always been about the players. In order to play an uptempo style offense it begins with defense and rebounding. As a Knicks fan I've watched all of their pregame shows and he does his job of preparing his players about how they want to play certain players i.e (going over under pick n roll schemes, double teaming) His main problem is that during the game he doesn't micro manage anything generally just letting the players play and occaisionally calling time-out to re-instill those concepts. He's always had players that he would not or could not hold accountable. Nash is not a good defender but you never see him get on him, stoudemire is notorious for his matador defense but you're not going to take your top/power foward or center out of the game. Also his offense by nature he likes to players undersized or out of position so it's harder to defend. In a perfect D'antoni game the offense is executed so well that it gives the other team little chance to win because they can't match the uptempo style. It doesn't mean he doesn't coach defense.

YashBoone
11-13-2012, 08:07 AM
Webber pretty much just said what I said when I first heard. Laker hired d'Antoni after not only failing in Ny but quitting mid season also.

My thought is, this is all about Nash. Lakerd think reuniting Nash and dantoni will bring them a ring.....

I was highly disappointed with dantoni in ny.
Lakers will be as well.

kbtwofour
11-13-2012, 01:39 PM
Webber pretty much just said what I said when I first heard. Laker hired d'Antoni after not only failing in Ny but quitting mid season also.

My thought is, this is all about Nash. Lakerd think reuniting Nash and dantoni will bring them a ring.....

I was highly disappointed with dantoni in ny.
Lakers will be as well.

I don't think so.

It's different when you have players on your team that have pride and work ethic.

justinnum1
11-13-2012, 01:45 PM
I don't think so.

It's different when you have players on your team that have pride and work ethic.

they didnt show any under mike brown

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-13-2012, 01:47 PM
Webber pretty much just said what I said when I first heard. Laker hired d'Antoni after not only failing in Ny but quitting mid season also.

My thought is, this is all about Nash. Lakerd think reuniting Nash and dantoni will bring them a ring.....

I was highly disappointed with dantoni in ny.
Lakers will be as well.

You just said its all about Nash as he wasn't in NY, but yet the Lakers will be disappointed with D'Antoni as Knicks fan were? :confused:

koreancabbage
11-13-2012, 01:53 PM
they didnt show any under mike brown

who has?

kbtwofour
11-13-2012, 01:53 PM
they didnt show any under mike brown

It's hard to do that when you have an idiot coaching the team.

Just watch the last two games and see the difference.

justinnum1
11-13-2012, 01:56 PM
who has?

If i had dwight, kobe and pau on my team and they had a losing record i would blame the coach too
:rolleyes:


It's hard to do that when you have an idiot coaching the team.

Just watch the last two games and see the difference.


You mean 2 games against awful teams?

BKdoubleStacker
11-13-2012, 04:05 PM
this isnt video games, d'antoni isnt controlling the players with a controller

the defense will be fine with dwight in the paint


If i had dwight, kobe and pau on my team and they had a losing record i would blame the coach too
:rolleyes:




You mean 2 games against awful teams?

the warriors are awful?

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-13-2012, 04:18 PM
LakersReporter

Kobe scoffed at notion D'Antoni's teams played no D. Said under Phil, they did "maybe 3" drills on D, ever. Let players figure that out.

Evolution23
11-13-2012, 05:16 PM
Love the optimism Laker fans but you are gonna get hit hard on the defensive end.

Huntey
11-13-2012, 05:52 PM
I think the Whole "D'Antoni doesn't do defense" stuff is bull ****. When he was with the Suns the defense was solid, if defense was bad it was because Nash, Amare and Barbosa were poor defenders. Only reason other teams would score a ton of points was because of the pace.

With the Knicks, D'antoni had a group of players, with the odd exception, who didn't play D. You can't coach good D if your team takes a break when the ball isn't in their hands.

With the Lakers he'll have MWP and Howard to anchor the defense. Kobe isn't half bad either. I don't see them taking a huge hit on the defensive end. If the pace goes up then they'll allow a few more points but nothing that's going to kill them.

HowFit
11-13-2012, 06:27 PM
It amazes me when I see posts that states "Dwight will anchor the D" bc all that will do is put wear and tear on a heavy, large frame body. Not saying he won't hold up, but he just had back surgery and still at a fairly young age.

Of course anyone can get hurt but bc of his size, he's more at risk....

ewing
11-13-2012, 07:24 PM
It amazes me when I see posts that states "Dwight will anchor the D" bc all that will do is put wear and tear on a heavy, large frame body. Not saying he won't hold up, but he just had back surgery and still at a fairly young age.

Of course anyone can get hurt but bc of his size, he's more at risk....


would you perfer D12 not anchor the D cause i kind of thought that was his job

HowFit
11-13-2012, 07:30 PM
would you perfer D12 not anchor the D cause i kind of thought that was his job

Not what I mean. Talking about for everyone to rely on him and put pressure on him to "anchor" the D. This is more the mental & physical aspect of it...

Kashmir13579
11-13-2012, 07:39 PM
LakersReporter

Kobe telling the critics to stfu

People on here like, don't realize how much Kobe admires Mike D.

ewing
11-13-2012, 08:08 PM
Not what I mean. Talking about for everyone to rely on him and put pressure on him to "anchor" the D. This is more the mental & physical aspect of it...


When you get Dwight Howard you expect him to shut down the paint. If he gets hurt your ****ed. Just like your ****ed if Kobe gets hurt. That doesn't change his job

Huntey
11-14-2012, 11:51 AM
It amazes me when I see posts that states "Dwight will anchor the D" bc all that will do is put wear and tear on a heavy, large frame body. Not saying he won't hold up, but he just had back surgery and still at a fairly young age.

Of course anyone can get hurt but bc of his size, he's more at risk....

I'm pretty sure I stated a few different players when talking about the defense. I didn't say : "leave it all up to Dwight". Infact my post was about how D'Antoni's team defense isn't as bad as people say, I merely stated that Metta World Peace and Dwight are good defensive players and they will always help.

Injury is always a risk but no-one's asking Dwight to over-work himself and be the entire Laker D on his own. Like I said, D'Antoni is a complete enough coach with good team defense concepts and he won't let that happen. This might be the best group of defenders he's ever had and I think he'll make the most of it.

JohnStarks94
11-14-2012, 12:19 PM
Dantoni smh.. U lakers fan are all gonna hate pringles cans for a long time.. Yall are in for a long as season..

Raph12
11-14-2012, 05:26 PM
I don't like D'Antoni, but the Lakers are playing without any defensive schemes/sets right now and it seems to be working better than when Mike Brown's defensive system was implemented... Nash will make the offense work, effort and Dwight Howard healthy will make the defense work.

C_Mund
11-14-2012, 05:47 PM
Mcmillan isn't that good at defense. his teams were never better than 15th in defensive efficiency. Dont confuse slow pace with good defense.

That's a good point. To the same effect, high scores don't always mean terrible defensive efficiency either. D'antoni's teams have always been super fast paced so they created more possessions/game. Not saying he was incredible, but I think (at work, can't look up stats) his teams hovered around the league average in defensive efficiency. If somebody has the time to look it up either way I'm curious.