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View Full Version : Memphis = Miami's Kryptonite?



Manimal
11-12-2012, 06:33 AM
There's no doubt in my mind that the Heat are the best team in the league, they have by far too much fire power. But as most people know game's are about match-ups. And the Heat are a complete mismatch against the Grizzlies.

They don't have any answer to Z-Bo and Gasol down low. And LeBron got shut down in the post by both of them. Memphis has two of the best perimeter defenders in the game in Tony Allen and Mike Conley. And both are unselfish guards who buy into the inside out game that is Memphis' strength. Add good shooters off the bench in Ellington and Bayless and they basically have the blueprint to beat Miami.

Last night was a massacre, as Memphis beat them wire-to-wire.

I guess the only wild card is Rudy Gay. He attacked the basket last night and Miami struggled. Memphis struggles when Rudy goes into shoot first mode rather than attack the basket first.

I feel Memphis is Miami's nightmare if they make it to the NBA finals. What say you?

Steelers23_06
11-12-2012, 06:45 AM
Lol now they just have to make it to the finals to beat em...

Aust
11-12-2012, 06:59 AM
Yeah, gl getting to the finals. Even if they were to meet, I don't see the Grizzlies executing enough to beat them in a 7 game series.

xxcubs22xx
11-12-2012, 07:05 AM
I wouldn't call it a massacre, now!

The HEAT simply didn't shoot well. 38% from the field, 27% from 3, and 61% at the charity stripe. That's not gonna get it done on any night.

It's a long season. No need to make a thread over this, really, IMO. Welcome to the NBA, give credit to Memphis for shooting lights out from the perimeter and rebounding with Miami.

Ty Fast
11-12-2012, 09:39 AM
big teams is Miami's Kryptonite

Dankster
11-12-2012, 09:43 AM
Any team with size and good team defense can give the Heat problems. The team has to have size though just to clog the paint and ensure it won't be a layup drill for Miami's superstars.

A few teams come to mind for me- Lakers, OKC, Knicks.

Those 3 teams have excellent defensive bigs and in my opinion can cause the Heat more trouble than the other teams in the league. Not saying these are the "best teams," but they're the ones that matchup with the Heat pretty well.

Dankster
11-12-2012, 09:44 AM
big teams is Miami's Kryptonite

You beat me to it. That being said though, the Heat are still by far and away the favorites to repeat this year.

sixer04fan
11-12-2012, 09:45 AM
Unless they're OKC's and LAL's kryptonite as well, as in they can beat them all in a 7 game series, it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 09:51 AM
Any team with size and good team defense can give the Heat problems. The team has to have size though just to clog the paint and ensure it won't be a layup drill for Miami's superstars.

A few teams come to mind for me- Lakers, OKC, Knicks.

Those 3 teams have excellent defensive bigs and in my opinion can cause the Heat more trouble than the other teams in the league. Not saying these are the "best teams," but they're the ones that matchup with the Heat pretty well.

Here's the thing that the Laker's lack, outside shooting and perimeter defense.

The problem with the Knicks is that their inside defense will take a hit once Amare comes back and their perimeter defense and ball movement is dependent on a 39 year old who will be banged up come play-off time.

Hustla23
11-12-2012, 09:53 AM
The Heat's defense has been very subpar thus far this season.

Of course with the decline of guys like Battier and Allen, along with guys who have never played a second of defense in their lives like Reshard Lewis, it was bound to get worse.

yfern328
11-12-2012, 09:58 AM
Here's the thing that the Laker's lack, outside shooting and perimeter defense.

The problem with the Knicks is that their inside defense will take a hit once Amare comes back and their perimeter defense and ball movement is dependent on a 39 year old who will be banged up come play-off time.

Don't forget about Iman Shumpert and Ronnie Brewer. These two are going to harass guards with their perimeter D once they're in a lineup together. Also, Raymond Felton and Pablo Prigioni have been solid defenders as well.

The Knicks main issue is Amar'e. And if he can work within the system, the Knicks are going to be really tough to beat. That said, they are showing they don't really need Amar'e. At this point anything he provides is a plus, but I don't think it's going to hurt the Knicks as much as people make it out to be. There's not going to be a precipitous drop in overall play. This team is not as susceptible to errors as they might have been in the past.

Gram
11-12-2012, 09:58 AM
No the Knicks are the best team in the league, and only the Knicks are the Heat's kryptonite.

He115ing
11-12-2012, 10:00 AM
really dude, after one game?

Manimal
11-12-2012, 10:02 AM
Don't forget about Iman Shumpert and Ronnie Brewer. These two are going to harass guards with their perimeter D once they're in a lineup together. Also, Raymond Felton and Pablo Prigioni have been solid defenders as well.

The Knicks main issue is Amar'e. And if he can work within the system, the Knicks are going to be really tough to beat. That said, they are showing they don't really need Amar'e. At this point anything he provides is a plus, but I don't think it's going to hurt the Knicks as much as people make it out to be. There's not going to be a precipitous drop in overall play. This team is not as susceptible to errors as they might have been in the past.

Playing good on ball defense and organizing a defense are two different things. Kidd is a floor general on both O and D. It's no surprise that the Knicks are a better offensive and defensive team with him on the floor.

Brewer and Shumpert are soldiers. Kidd is the general, unfortunately I don't think he will last deep into the playoffs.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 10:04 AM
really dude, after one game?

I knew someone would say that. But it's not about one game. It's about the match-ups.

Dankster
11-12-2012, 10:10 AM
Here's the thing that the Laker's lack, outside shooting and perimeter defense.

The problem with the Knicks is that their inside defense will take a hit once Amare comes back and their perimeter defense and ball movement is dependent on a 39 year old who will be banged up come play-off time.

Kidd barely sniffs 20 minutes per night, and he's VERY effective in the diminutive amount of minutes that he does see.

Our "true" wing defenders are Ronnie Brewer, JR Smith and Iman Shumpert (who'll be returning in January.) I'll take those wing defenders over almost any other combo in the league.

I do agree with you on the conundrum that is STAT. No one really knows how he's going to segue back into this team. Most knick fans are just concerned with the effect he'll have for this team on the defensive end.

This Knicks has been playing GREAT team defense and it only takes one bad egg in the lineup to ruin things for us defensively. I really have no idea what to expect from Stoudemire.

theheatles
11-12-2012, 10:53 AM
Miami's kryptonite is teams making 3s at a clip that is an aberration to the norm, very encouraging considering the 7 game playoff format

KnicksorBust
11-12-2012, 10:57 AM
Miami's kryptonite is teams making 3s at a clip that is an aberration to the norm, very encouraging considering the 7 game playoff format

He's actually got a point. Both the Knicks and Grizz were lights out in those games. My question is: How do you defend the the fact that the Heat underperformed offensively?

SteBO
11-12-2012, 10:58 AM
Memphis shot lights out last night, and miami missed 12 FTs too many. Also, Dwyane Wade was ****. Nothing else was really relevant because both teams were even rebounding and Miami held their own in points in the paint.

StarvingKnick22
11-12-2012, 10:59 AM
big teams is Miami's Kryptonite

this

Punk
11-12-2012, 11:01 AM
They haven't beaten Memphis in 3 years. It had nothing to do with 3 pointers. Also, Gay gives LeBron problems to guard.

SteBO
11-12-2012, 11:01 AM
He's actually got a point. Both the Knicks and Grizz were lights out in those games. My question is: How do you defend the the fact that the Heat underperformed offensively?
Those are statistical anomalies though. Over the course of a seven game series, that isn't going to continue. Miami's offensive woes in both games hinge on two things, Wade being terrible and forcing shots, and missed FTs.

SteBO
11-12-2012, 11:04 AM
They haven't beaten Memphis in 3 years. It had nothing to do with 3 pointers. Also, Gay gives LeBron problems to guard.
Actually, Miami had their way with Memphis in 2011 and blew them out by 33 points. And we lost on a ridiculous buzzer beater by Rudy Gay that same year as well. Last night it had nearly everything to do with three-pointers, and idiotic offense from Wade along with missed FTs and constant penetration from Mike Conley.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 11:04 AM
Miami's kryptonite is teams making 3s at a clip that is an aberration to the norm, very encouraging considering the 7 game playoff format

Not enough size in the paint against Gasol and Z-Bo = sagging defense = wide open 3-point shots.

More often than not, Memphis had two guys open on the perimeter because Z-Bo required so much attention down low as they crashed the glass an beat Heat up inside. Memphis established it's inside game within the first 2 minutes. Heats defense couldn't keep up with Z-Bo and Gasol. They had to bring in double teams frequently and hence wide open spot up shooters.

KnicksorBust
11-12-2012, 11:07 AM
Those are statistical anomalies though. Over the course of a seven game series, that isn't going to continue. Miami's offensive woes in both games hinge on two things, Wade being terrible and forcing shots, and missed FTs.

So just we're clear. Their offensive success was an aberration. We can't give Memphis credit for that. And your offensive failures were a statistical anomaly. We can't give Memphis credit for that.

That's a little unreasonable if you ask me. The team is 5-1 and playing well. It's more than just a bunch of statistical anomalies.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 11:07 AM
Actually, Miami had their way with Memphis in 2011 and blew them out by 33 points. And we lost on a ridiculous buzzer beater by Rudy Gay that same year as well. Last night it had nearly everything to do with three-pointers, and idiotic offense from Wade along with missed FTs and constant penetration from Mike Conley.

Memphis beat Miami wire to wire in Miami in 2011. Yesterday again a wire to wire win.

SteBO
11-12-2012, 11:11 AM
So just we're clear. Their offensive success was an aberration. We can't give Memphis credit for that. And your offensive failures were a statistical anomaly. We can't give Memphis credit for that.

That's a little unreasonable if you ask me. The team is 5-1 and playing well. It's more than just a bunch of statistical anomalies.
Memphis does deserve credit. They played outstanding, but entering this game they weren't good from downtown at all and their bench production wasn't anything special either. Both were positives for them last night. The one constant for them so far was defense, and as expected it was very good. But Wayne Ellington shooting 7-11 from 3 isn't going to happen over the course of a seven game series.......the defense? Possibly. The three point shooting.....a big part of me doubts that. I gave Memphis their due. Last night simply wasn't Miami's night.

SteBO
11-12-2012, 11:17 AM
Memphis beat Miami wire to wire in Miami in 2011. Yesterday again a wire to wire win.
2010-2011 season: Miami 95 Memphis 97 - Rudy Gay buzzer beater
Miami 118 Memphis 85 - Miami wire to wire victory

Last year - Helps your case. Memphis had the heat on lockdown.

Last night - more of the same. But because Memphis was unconscious from 3 and Miami was putrid offensively.

Memphis has a definitive front court advantage, but last night was not one of those games where the front court was issue. The ridiculous 3 point shooting was, which is not going to hold up over the course of a series. To say they're Miami's kryptonite is a tad ridiculous. A regular season game has no bearing on the outcomes of a seven game series.

Quietmoney
11-12-2012, 11:28 AM
Playing good on ball defense and organizing a defense are two different things. Kidd is a floor general on both O and D. It's no surprise that the Knicks are a better offensive and defensive team with him on the floor.

Brewer and Shumpert are soldiers. Kidd is the general, unfortunately I don't think he will last deep into the playoffs.

Kidd is only playing about 20-25 minutes a game. Felton is the primary guard and he's doing just fine for us. Everyone keeps talking about Amare messing things up, well under Woodson, Melo & Amare in the line up, the Knicks were 9-2. I know one thing... Teams better hope they don't incorporate Amare in all of this because there will be no answers for that team. And I'm sure if we can play Rasheed Wallace and it not hurt us, I'm sure we'll be fine with Amare.

benzni
11-12-2012, 11:29 AM
I thought the Milwaukee Bucks was their kryptonite last season

torocan
11-12-2012, 11:35 AM
Miami has only 2 weaknesses.

Size. Big teams create a ton of mismatches in the paint.

3 point shooting. Long and athletic defenders are great, but they can't outrun fast passing. If the opposing team is loaded with alot of very good 3 point shooters, you'll outrun them.

A team that has both plays into both of Miami's weaknesses and makes them vulnerable.

Still, Miami is the favorite to come out of the East. The championship will depend on who they end up facing.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 11:36 AM
It's not about the win, it's about having just the right pieces to trouble Miami.

Miami lacks good paint D - Paint offense is Memphis' bread and butter.
Miami two of the best perimeter players in the game - Memphis has two of the best perimeter defenders in the game.
Miami looks to get LBJ in the post and attract a double team to open up wide open shots - Doesn't work against Gasol and Z-Bo who handled LBJ without a double team.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Memphis has just the right weapons to hurt Miami.

And you yourself put up the stats, played them 4 times, and lost only 1.

KnicksorBust
11-12-2012, 11:40 AM
It's not about the win, it's about having just the right pieces to trouble Miami.

Miami lacks good paint D - Paint offense is Memphis' bread and butter.
Miami two of the best perimeter players in the game - Memphis has two of the best perimeter defenders in the game.
Miami looks to get LBJ in the post and attract a double team to open up wide open shots - Doesn't work against Gasol and Z-Bo who handled LBJ without a double team.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Memphis has just the right weapons to hurt Miami.

And you yourself put up the stats, played them 4 times, and lost only 1.

Strong post. I agree with a lot of it. I'm curious how you would defend Gasol's lack of effectiveness scoring last night?

justinnum1
11-12-2012, 11:41 AM
I wouldn't call it a massacre, now!

The HEAT simply didn't shoot well. 38% from the field, 27% from 3, and 61% at the charity stripe. That's not gonna get it done on any night.

It's a long season. No need to make a thread over this, really, IMO. Welcome to the NBA, give credit to Memphis for shooting lights out from the perimeter and rebounding with Miami.

this...

SteBO
11-12-2012, 11:44 AM
It's not about the win, it's about having just the right pieces to trouble Miami.

Miami lacks good paint D - Paint offense is Memphis' bread and butter.
Miami two of the best perimeter players in the game - Memphis has two of the best perimeter defenders in the game.
Miami looks to get LBJ in the post and attract a double team to open up wide open shots - Doesn't work against Gasol and Z-Bo who handled LBJ without a double team.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Memphis has just the right weapons to hurt Miami.

And you yourself put up the stats, played them 4 times, and lost only 1.
No disagreement here. I never said Memphis can't hurt or trouble Miami. :shrug: Just pointing out that their 3pt shooting last night is a statistical anomaly and had Miami won last night I find it very difficult to imagine this thread even being made. It just comes off as an overreaction to last night. But you're correct. Memphis has a front court over Miami and when you have that, you give yourselves a chance.

SteBO
11-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Also, Miami actually has good paint D. It's just easier to brake it when you have a PF and C like Memphis has.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 11:47 AM
Strong post. I agree with a lot of it. I'm curious how you would defend Gasol's lack of effectiveness scoring last night?

In the first quarter, Memphis started with high-low game. Where Z-Bo went to the low post and Gasol to the high post and fed Z-Bo down low. Opened with a 10-2 run. You could see Miami couldn't handle and went to a time out.

From then on it was a game of pounding it low, sagging the defense and looking for cutters and open shooters. Worked like a treat. After Memphis opened it up at the half, Miami never came within 5 points of Memphis.

Blitzbolt
11-12-2012, 12:01 PM
The Heat has beat us once(big 3) and that was with no ZBO he was injured.

Anyways the Grizzlies have the Heat OKC(Wed) and knicks (Fri) we will see how good we are after those games.

Grizzlies have to focus on the West that CP3 pick roll is a killer for Gasol and ZBO and we have to get that fix.

Big Zo
11-12-2012, 12:05 PM
The Bulls and Celtics were Miami's kryptonite the last two years...

miller74
11-12-2012, 12:08 PM
They are their own kryptonite, if they play their game, they should win just about every 7 game series

Raps08-09 Champ
11-12-2012, 12:20 PM
They have a big front court. So yea, the Heat will have problems.

jericho
11-12-2012, 12:34 PM
yeah you need bigs to stop miami but you also need them to be fast to be able to stop the fast break or have a really good team at controlling the tempo of the game you really want to have a half court game agianst them not full court they will destroy you

Manimal
11-12-2012, 12:59 PM
yeah you need bigs to stop miami but you also need them to be fast to be able to stop the fast break or have a really good team at controlling the tempo of the game you really want to have a half court game agianst them not full court they will destroy you

This, further explains what I am trying to say. Memphis is exactly this. Conley is content to play in the half court and pound the ball down low.

Hustla23
11-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Well, what does it matter when they can't beat the Thunder or Spurs in a series?

Stinkyoutsider
11-12-2012, 01:34 PM
Memphis had a great night and they had something to do with Miami not playing well. Whether it was Memphis D that gave Miami problems or maybe just the inability of Miami to defend the paint and Memphis' bigs, it was a good win against the champs either way. Memphis should feel great about it.

Then again, it is the regular season after all? Miami probably isn't thinking twice about the loss and is looking forward to next game. Same thing for Memphis and the win.

I would like to see what happens during the playoffs. That's the real test imo. Where teams have more time to prepare and expose teams' weaknesses.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 01:35 PM
Well, what does it matter when they can't beat the Thunder or Spurs in a series?

We haven't seen them go at either with both ZBo and Rudy fit. A fully fit Grizzlies team haven't had their run yet.

Baller1
11-12-2012, 01:37 PM
We haven't seen them go at either with both ZBo and Rudy fit. A fully fit Grizzlies team haven't had their run yet.

While this is true, it wouldn't surprise me if Memphis has another key cog injured come playoff time. Seems as if you guys have always got one person out.

Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Memphis in the WCF this season.

Manimal
11-12-2012, 02:01 PM
While this is true, it wouldn't surprise me if Memphis has another key cog injured come playoff time. Seems as if you guys have always got one person out.

Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Memphis in the WCF this season.

Not a Memphis supporter. I am hoping they don't make it to NBA finals and the Nuggets make it instead. Not a Heat hater either, every man and his dog knows that Heat are the best team in the NBA.

Just calling it like I see it.

JayW_1023
11-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Their advantage on the glass puts a lot of pressure on MIA D to gamble for steals to get out in transition.

Marc Gasol from the high post to Randolph is a killer play. Heat have no one physical enough to counter Randolph close to the hoop.

Blitzbolt
11-12-2012, 03:04 PM
Like I said before the Grizzlies have problems especially with pick and roll PGs (Parker,CP3)but still we are a top 5 team in west for sure.

Gritz
11-12-2012, 03:15 PM
They're not getting out the west

/Thread

YoungOne
11-12-2012, 03:33 PM
always excited to see the lebron vs gay matchup

Guppyfighter
11-12-2012, 03:58 PM
Well, what does it matter when they can't beat the Thunder or Spurs in a series?


They have already beat the Spurs in a series and taken the Thunder to seven.

It's definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

Minimal
11-12-2012, 04:49 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that the Heat are the best team in the league, they have by far too much fire power. But as most people know game's are about match-ups. And the Heat are a complete mismatch against the Grizzlies.

They don't have any answer to Z-Bo and Gasol down low. And LeBron got shut down in the post by both of them. Memphis has two of the best perimeter defenders in the game in Tony Allen and Mike Conley. And both are unselfish guards who buy into the inside out game that is Memphis' strength. Add good shooters off the bench in Ellington and Bayless and they basically have the blueprint to beat Miami.

Last night was a massacre, as Memphis beat them wire-to-wire.

I guess the only wild card is Rudy Gay. He attacked the basket last night and Miami struggled. Memphis struggles when Rudy goes into shoot first mode rather than attack the basket first.

I feel Memphis is Miami's nightmare if they make it to the NBA finals. What say you?
Seriously man? Couldn't you create a better nickname?

On topic. Yes I believe Memphis is Miami's kryptonite. We lost 3 out of 4 games to them since 2010. They have all the tools to stop Miami and they are looking great this year. Good thing they are in the west and we don't need to meet them in the playoffs, until the finals. On the other hand regular season games are not playoffs, so we cannot really judge who would win a playoff series between this to teams come playoff time.

justinnum1
11-12-2012, 05:00 PM
Seriously man? Couldn't you create a better nickname?

On topic. Yes I believe Memphis is Miami's kryptonite. We lost 3 out of 4 games to them since 2010. They have all the tools to stop Miami and they are looking great this year. Good thing they are in the west and we don't need to meet them in the playoffs, until the finals. On the other hand regular season games are not playoffs, so we cannot really judge who would win a playoff series between this to teams come playoff time.
this. miami outrebounded memphis yesterday which shocked me, and memphis would not shoot 60% from 3 over a 7 game series.

I would feel pretty confident about facing memphis in the finals

Hustla23
11-12-2012, 05:53 PM
They have already beat the Spurs in a series and taken the Thunder to seven.

It's definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.
True. I'm just worried about Gay and Randolph meshing. I haven't seen any Grizzlies games this season but can anyone comment on this?

kyubi256
11-12-2012, 06:00 PM
I wouldn't say that Memphis is Miami's kryptonite because they can honestly go off at any time and put up great numbers. They are too talented to have a legitimate "kryptonite" who can stop them every time.

But Memphis is a stacked team. A true elite IMO

Hangtime
11-12-2012, 06:05 PM
You are seriously underestimating the difference between a regular season game and a 7 game series. Miami played about as bad as they could and Memphis played about as good as they could resulting in a blowout. There is far more preparation for a series. Miami is not missing FT's like they did next time. That was a huge difference.

justinnum1
11-12-2012, 06:33 PM
You are seriously underestimating the difference between a regular season game and a 7 game series. Miami played about as bad as they could and Memphis played about as good as they could resulting in a blowout. There is far more preparation for a series. Miami is not missing FT's like they did next time. That was a huge difference.

not only that, but memphis isnt shooting 60% from 3 over a 7 game series. still, props to memphis on a good game

mzgrizz
11-12-2012, 08:53 PM
Agree Grizz have to get to the WCF. Not an impossibility but I wouldn't build them as Miami's kryptonite. They did play a helluva game and I'm so proud of my boys!!!