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BBallfan8
11-11-2012, 05:46 PM
What happened to this guy? Why is noone talking about how bad the 90 million dollar man has played.

13.8 ppg on under 40% shooting through 4 games, 2-11 tonight so far against Orlando.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 05:47 PM
This is your first post? he is in a new system...and its been 3 games

Robbw241
11-11-2012, 05:48 PM
Because it's 5 games into the season.

JasonJohnHorn
11-11-2012, 05:49 PM
People have been complaining about that contract since the day he signed it.... lol
As for his numbers, he's in a new system and the season is young.

He's shooting a great percentages from behind the arc so far. I think he's use to handling the ball, not playing off he ball. But I'm sure he and D-Will can work something out.

Nick O
11-11-2012, 05:50 PM
cause the season just started...

Ebbs
11-11-2012, 05:50 PM
Well not saying he won't improve but the dude got a hellacious contract. He doesn't have to worry about anything, and he didn't truly earn that money.

BBallfan8
11-11-2012, 05:54 PM
It may have only been 5 games... but what other player being paid anywhere near 20 million dollars a year and can completely go under the radar for being non existant so far this season... imagine if Melo or Kobe started the season like that :speechless:

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 05:57 PM
It may have only been 5 games... but what other player being paid anywhere near 20 million dollars a year and can completely go under the radar for being non existant so far this season... imagine if Melo or Kobe started the season like that :speechless:

Started like what he is avg like 15 a game, Joe isnt Melo or Kobe so you cant compare them

Gritz
11-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Well not saying he won't improve but the dude got a hellacious contract. He doesn't have to worry about anything, and he didn't truly earn that money.

he's earned every dollar

VinceCarter
11-11-2012, 06:00 PM
New team and system. Welcome to PSD and the NBA.

Pluvious
11-11-2012, 06:06 PM
I think he's use to handling the ball, not playing off he ball. But I'm sure he and D-Will can work something out.

In Phoenix he used to play almost exclusively off the ball. He shot a high % back then.

StarvingKnick22
11-11-2012, 06:13 PM
Well, because if there was a thread, DMF would troll, and all the other net fans would cry about it being a "Nets bait thread."

KnicksR4Real
11-11-2012, 06:18 PM
word joe johnson

jmoney85
11-11-2012, 06:24 PM
He will be fine lol

2-ONE-5
11-11-2012, 06:30 PM
Started like what he is avg like 15 a game, Joe isnt Melo or Kobe so you cant compare them

why not? he makes more money then they do

JasonJohnHorn
11-11-2012, 06:38 PM
In Phoenix he used to play almost exclusively off the ball. He shot a high % back then.

Good point. I stand corrected. Hopefully he and D-Will get things worked out.

bigbeardaboss
11-11-2012, 06:38 PM
Because its the Nets

More-Than-Most
11-11-2012, 06:39 PM
This is your first post? he is in a new system...and its been 3 games

So a small sample size only counts when it works out for the Nets? You have been gloating in threads about spanking the Magic or about Lopez pulling down rebounds in 2 games... Yet when its negative you bring up the new system small sample size crap. So glad you are consistent

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 06:40 PM
why not? he makes more money then they do

They chose to take less money

JasonJohnHorn
11-11-2012, 06:42 PM
It may have only been 5 games... but what other player being paid anywhere near 20 million dollars a year and can completely go under the radar for being non existant so far this season... imagine if Melo or Kobe started the season like that :speechless:

Tchnically, Rashard Lewis is getting paid over 22 million this season and he's only averaging 9 points a game.

nycericanguy
11-11-2012, 06:49 PM
He's just not that good anymore. He came into todays game with 5 FTA all season. Think about that for a second.

He'll score 15ppg because he'll take 15 shots per game because he's Joe Johnson, but he's not a star anymore, only by name.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 06:52 PM
He's just not that good anymore. He came into todays game with 5 FTA all season. Think about that for a second.

He'll score 15ppg because he'll take 15 shots per game because he's Joe Johnson, but he's not a star anymore, only by name.

He is a catch and shoot player so far, and yes he is a star. Who will be the other SG in the ASG besides Wade? Its going to be Joe

SINCESTARBURY25
11-11-2012, 06:53 PM
He used to be one of my hometown heros in ATL but i saw him declining. He will be fine he is one of my fav players. He didnt earn that contract though

dee279
11-11-2012, 06:54 PM
They chose to take less money

They did? So Kobe making 27 mill this year and 30 mill more the year after that is less then the max? I doubt it. And Melo makes less because he was in the league less years then Joe Johnson.

dee279
11-11-2012, 06:55 PM
He is a catch and shoot player so far, and yes he is a star. Who will be the other SG in the ASG besides Wade? Its going to be Joe

Id pick Paul George over Joe.

dee279
11-11-2012, 06:56 PM
Tchnically, Rashard Lewis is getting paid over 22 million this season and he's only averaging 9 points a game.

Still actually playing better then i thought he would.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Id pick Paul George over Joe.

ok you take that role player (wont even call him by name because he doesnt deserve to be in the same sentence as Joe) over Joe Johnson

Gram
11-11-2012, 07:04 PM
DoMeFavors. :facepalm:

nycericanguy
11-11-2012, 07:05 PM
Id pick Paul George over Joe.

there are alot of SG's in the EAST that have played much better than JJ thus far.

JR
Derozan
Ellis
Reddick
RIP
Wade

and yes George have all been better than JJ.

SG is the weakest position in the NBA though

xxplayerxx23
11-11-2012, 07:09 PM
JJ hasn't been the same in years. He isn't that good, he chokes in the playoffs and he is a ball dominate chucker. Ill wait for Melo to be brought into this because I cristized JJ, but fact is he isn't the same, I expect him to get to 15 a game on 43 % shooting somethin like that.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 07:12 PM
Joe wouldnt even be talked about in a post like this if he wasnt on the Nets, face it we are the real deal. Now people are paying attention, nobody was keeping track of his stats. and if you want to talk about someone not doing well its Roy Hibbert

Gritz
11-11-2012, 07:13 PM
ok you take that role player (wont even call him by name because he doesnt deserve to be in the same sentence as Joe) over Joe Johnson

:laugh:

WAYNEBO
11-11-2012, 07:15 PM
Hahaha... I come into this forum -- from a REAL life. And looky who's lurking in the JJ thread. A troll like no other..

xxplayerxx23
11-11-2012, 07:16 PM
Joe wouldnt even be talked about in a post like this if he wasnt on the Nets, face it we are the real deal. Now people are paying attention, nobody was keeping track of his stats. and if you want to talk about someone not doing well its Roy Hibbert

He has been talked about in this way since he was in Atlanta. But yet Hibbert>JJ. IF the nets make the playoffs, JJ will disapear like he always does.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 07:21 PM
He has been talked about in this way since he was in Atlanta. But yet Hibbert>JJ. IF the nets make the playoffs, JJ will disapear like he always does.

Hibbert is not even close to Lopez, Hibbert shouldnt have been an all star last season

xxplayerxx23
11-11-2012, 07:22 PM
Hibbert is not even close to Lopez, Hibbert shouldnt have been an all star last season

Same goes with JJ.

cubs1st
11-11-2012, 07:23 PM
Thankfully he stayed with Atlanta instead of coming to Chicago in the summer of 2010.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 07:25 PM
Same goes with JJ.

Who should have made it over JJ? 18 ppg and 4 assists and a good team

no Horford

xxplayerxx23
11-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Who should have made it over JJ? 18 ppg and 4 assists and a good team

no Horford

Smith,Iggy.

Lake_Show2416
11-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Joe Johnson may not b a max player but with some time he'll find his way, D. Will will help him get some open looks, he should be solid

Corey
11-11-2012, 07:28 PM
JJ gets blamed because Atlanta's FO was dumb with their money?

He's still a good player.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Smith,Iggy.

Iggy was an all star

xxplayerxx23
11-11-2012, 07:33 PM
Iggy was an all star

Okay and Smith was still better, but it doesn't matter, JJ is still solid but not great and won't be much of a factor in the playoffs.

DoMeFavors
11-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Okay and Smith was still better, but it doesn't matter, JJ is still solid but not great and won't be much of a factor in the playoffs.

Smith is a foward, JJ was a SG you need 4 guards

jmoney85
11-11-2012, 07:41 PM
Smith,Iggy.

uhhh no

MetsJets0809
11-11-2012, 07:57 PM
This thread is a bit ridiculous. I think that he'll be fine. It takes time in a new system, but Joe will average his 17-19 points per night eventually. If people are looking at him to average 20-25 points a game, that's not happening, and I don't think anyone is looking for that

Hawkeye15
11-11-2012, 08:02 PM
Joe has been the most overrate so called star for years now. The Hawks giving him that deal was a knee jerk reaction to being left with nothing. Can't blame Joe for signing it. The part that has always killed me about him, is when the playoffs start, he disappears completely. Not sure why.

Lakers + Giants
11-11-2012, 08:06 PM
Nash effect, takes time to get adjusted to a new team.

jmoney85
11-11-2012, 08:07 PM
Joe has been the most overrate so called star for years now. The Hawks giving him that deal was a knee jerk reaction to being left with nothing. Can't blame Joe for signing it. The part that has always killed me about him, is when the playoffs start, he disappears completely. Not sure why.

I dont understand how somebody can be called overrated when everybody thinks he's crap

Kashmir13579
11-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Move along... Nothing to see here...

Kashmir13579
11-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Joe has been the most overrate so called star for years now. The Hawks giving him that deal was a knee jerk reaction to being left with nothing. Can't blame Joe for signing it. The part that has always killed me about him, is when the playoffs start, he disappears completely. Not sure why.

I'm still trying to figure out how he convinced them he was a max player when he left Phoenix.

netsgiantsyanks
11-11-2012, 08:14 PM
because there are 77 games left in the season.

jmoney85
11-11-2012, 08:15 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how he convinced them he was a max player when he left Phoenix.

he was a young player coming off a season where he scored 17ppg on 46% shooting.... thats why

netsgiantsyanks
11-11-2012, 08:19 PM
and i agree with some of these posts, the only reason why he got that much money was because he was about to sign with the knicks and the hawks added $30 million more to the deal.

Mayweather&NYK
11-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Started like what he is avg like 15 a game, Joe isnt Melo or Kobe so you cant compare them


DMF...I've gotta say... this is the most logical comment your have ever made... I'm quite impressed...

NewjackNY
11-11-2012, 08:45 PM
What happened to this guy? Why is noone talking about how bad the 90 million dollar man has played.

13.8 ppg on under 40% shooting through 4 games, 2-11 tonight so far against Orlando.

He's playing better than Amare!

BBallfan8
11-11-2012, 09:01 PM
He's playing better than Amare!

If Amar'e was healthy and putting up these kind of numbers, everyone would be calling for his head and there would be a 50 page thread of people saying how his career is over.

Kashmir13579
11-11-2012, 09:03 PM
he was a young player coming off a season where he scored 17ppg on 46% shooting.... thats why
Is this a joke or are you being totally serious right now?

jmoney85
11-11-2012, 09:07 PM
Is this a joke or are you being totally serious right now?

im serious.... its atlanta... its not like good players are dying to go there... obviously they are going to overpay just like they did last time he was a FA

Mayweather&NYK
11-11-2012, 09:12 PM
Is this a joke or are you being totally serious right now?

He clearly knows nothing about basketball, or life in general... go easy on him kash...

KnicksorBust
11-11-2012, 09:20 PM
Joe has been the most overrate so called star for years now. The Hawks giving him that deal was a knee jerk reaction to being left with nothing. Can't blame Joe for signing it. The part that has always killed me about him, is when the playoffs start, he disappears completely. Not sure why.

How is he overrated? :laugh:


I dont understand how somebody can be called overrated when everybody thinks he's crap

Yeah exactly.


Nash effect, takes time to get adjusted to a new team.

Yup. I still believe Joe will get his act together playing with Deron. He's finally found a situation that best suits his game. After x amount of years being the man and playing iso ball he just needs to become adjusted. Good post.


I'm still trying to figure out how he convinced them he was a max player when he left Phoenix.

He didn't convince them when he left Phoenix. He convinced them in 2010 when the Knicks were SWEATING for any max. The Knicks ready to max Joe Johnson and LeBron so the Hawks didn't want to go from a guaranteed playoff berth to the lottery so they overpayed to keep him.

jmoney85
11-11-2012, 09:29 PM
How is he overrated? :laugh:



Yeah exactly.



Yup. I still believe Joe will get his act together playing with Deron. He's finally found a situation that best suits his game. After x amount of years being the man and playing iso ball he just needs to become adjusted. Good post.



He didn't convince them when he left Phoenix. He convinced them in 2010 when the Knicks were SWEATING for any max. The Knicks ready to max Joe Johnson and LeBron so the Hawks didn't want to go from a guaranteed playoff berth to the lottery so they overpayed to keep him.

I think the nets were ready to give him the max also

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 03:56 AM
I dont understand how somebody can be called overrated when everybody thinks he's crap

multiple all star games, looked at as a star, and paid like one too.

Overrated.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 04:01 AM
he was a young player coming off a season where he scored 17ppg on 46% shooting.... thats why

He signed his max deal 15 minutes after he crawled away like a little girl against Orlando. He was terrible.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 04:02 AM
How is he overrated? :laugh:
.

Please explain how he isn't, considering his multiple all star appearances, and being labeled as a top 4-5 SG on so many media sites the last 5-8 years.

sunsfan88
11-12-2012, 04:40 AM
Funny thing is that Joe Johnson makes more money over the next 5 years than ALL OF THE PSD combined for the next 5 years.

HowFit
11-12-2012, 05:27 AM
Tchnically, Rashard Lewis is getting paid over 22 million this season and he's only averaging 9 points a game.

Ouch!

HowFit
11-12-2012, 05:32 AM
Nash effect, takes time to get adjusted to a new team.

Of course a Laker's fan says this...

KnicksorBust
11-12-2012, 10:14 AM
Please explain how he isn't, considering his multiple all star appearances, and being labeled as a top 4-5 SG on so many media sites the last 5-8 years.

If anything reading this makes me think he's underrated. You don't even think he deserved to be an All-Star? That guy has basically been averaging 20-5-5 and carrying the Hawks team to respectibility.

Dankster
11-12-2012, 10:19 AM
They were over the cap anyway after extending Wallace and Lopez to their contracts, so them being able to upgrade like this in their SG position is huge for them.

I think last year they had Sundiata Gaines seeing a lot of the minutes that are currently allocated to Joe Johnson.

Aside from not keeping Gerald Green, the Nets had a great offseason as far as acquisitions go.

Monetarily speaking though, his contract is just plain awful. But it doesn't matter, there's a lot of awful contracts in this league and he's exponentially better than any of the players that played the 2 for them last year.

Ill21
11-12-2012, 10:22 AM
No worries, he is the G.O.A.T

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 10:32 AM
If anything reading this makes me think he's underrated. You don't even think he deserved to be an All-Star? That guy has basically been averaging 20-5-5 and carrying the Hawks team to respectibility.

When did he carry the Hawks? He wasn't even their best player the final 2 seasons he was there. I am not that concerned with his all star appearances, the SG position in the NBA is weak as hell over the past half decade outside the cream of the crop.

Honestly, his deal is what sets everyone off. In what universe is he worth that money. And again, look at his fall off a cliff production when the playoffs start man. If you are supposed to be a star, you don't fall that hard when the real games start consistently.

Rockice_8
11-12-2012, 10:36 AM
Learning a new system, playing off the ball in a long time, multiple other good scoring options, and so on. The only thing disappointing with his season so far is his FG%. If he gets that up to the mid 40's where is should be his numbers will bump up slightly and he'll be exactly where I thought he'd be in the 16-18 ppg range.

He'll always be overpaid, can we let it go already.

KnicksorBust
11-12-2012, 10:40 AM
When did he carry the Hawks? He wasn't even their best player the final 2 seasons he was there.

Debatable. Either way he was their closer. That's not debatable.


I am not that concerned with his all star appearances,
Then why did you use that as proof he was overrated? :confused:


the SG position in the NBA is weak as hell over the past half decade outside the cream of the crop.

And that's his fault? SGs and Cs of this generation don't get enough credit. If you are better than your peers that still holds weight. He was a top 5 SG and an All-Star and I'm still waiting for you to prove the contrary.


Honestly, his deal is what sets everyone off. In what universe is he worth that money. And again, look at his fall off a cliff production when the playoffs start man. If you are supposed to be a star, you don't fall that hard when the real games start consistently.

This is where I agree with you. I've never said he wasn't overpaid. That's different from being overrated though.

thenaj17
11-12-2012, 10:50 AM
Well, because if there was a thread, DMF would troll, and all the other net fans would cry about it being a "Nets bait thread."

This..

waveycrockett
11-12-2012, 11:03 AM
multiple all star games, looked at as a star, and paid like one too.

Overrated.

You know he was never voted in by fans. He earned those

Heediot
11-12-2012, 11:08 AM
Tchnically, Rashard Lewis is getting paid over 22 million this season and he's only averaging 9 points a game.

No he is not. He is making around 12 million. He didn't get amnestied, there was a team buy-out in his contract (around 10-12 million savings).

dalton749
11-12-2012, 11:41 AM
joe johnson sucks derozan is better

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 11:47 AM
he was a young player coming off a season where he scored 17ppg on 46% shooting.... thats why

:facepalm:

netsgiantsyanks
11-12-2012, 11:51 AM
people only find him overrated because of the deal the hawks threw at him. what was he supposed to do, say no?

Nycbball08
11-12-2012, 12:05 PM
What happened to this guy? Why is noone talking about how bad the 90 million dollar man has played.

13.8 ppg on under 40% shooting through 4 games, 2-11 tonight so far against Orlando.

Don't you mean 120 mil..

sammyvine
11-12-2012, 04:08 PM
When did he carry the Hawks? He wasn't even their best player the final 2 seasons he was there. I am not that concerned with his all star appearances, the SG position in the NBA is weak as hell over the past half decade outside the cream of the crop.

Honestly, his deal is what sets everyone off. In what universe is he worth that money. And again, look at his fall off a cliff production when the playoffs start man. If you are supposed to be a star, you don't fall that hard when the real games start consistently.

The worst thing about him is he is not one of those players that fans will desperately pay to see even if he chokes in closing moments or doesn't get far in the play offs.

Vince carter, T-mac and even Melo you will pay to watch.
Blake griffin is overrated as hell but i will admit you will pay just to see him throw down a dunk which justifies his salary.

I really can't say the same with Joe Johnson. How the hell did the Hawks give him $120 million. He hasn't even been an all nba first team or 2nd team player.

sammyvine
11-12-2012, 04:10 PM
people only find him overrated because of the deal the hawks threw at him. what was he supposed to do, say no?

well thats the whole point

in this economic climate, fans look at what players earning and expect to see a result.

when you see joe johnson earning kobe bryant/tim duncan like money, it is absurd when he has never been a franchise level player.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 04:29 PM
well thats the whole point

in this economic climate, fans look at what players earning and expect to see a result.

when you see joe johnson earning kobe bryant/tim duncan like money, it is absurd when he has never been a franchise level player.

he makes nowhere near kobe money... relax

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 04:38 PM
he makes nowhere near kobe money... relax

But he makes Franchise player money which he's not...

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:00 PM
Debatable. Either way he was their closer. That's not debatable.


Then why did you use that as proof he was overrated? :confused:



And that's his fault? SGs and Cs of this generation don't get enough credit. If you are better than your peers that still holds weight. He was a top 5 SG and an All-Star and I'm still waiting for you to prove the contrary.



This is where I agree with you. I've never said he wasn't overpaid. That's different from being overrated though.

You keep skipping over his playoff dives. Look at the numbers dude, you will be amazed at the drop off from regular season to playoffs with Joe, outside one season in Phoenix.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:01 PM
You know he was never voted in by fans. He earned those

Shows the lack of SG's in the NBA over the past 6 years honestly.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:01 PM
But he makes Franchise player money which he's not...

so does amare except JJ plays defense and GAMES!

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:02 PM
You keep skipping over his playoff dives. Look at the numbers dude, you will be amazed at the drop off from regular season to playoffs with Joe, outside one season in Phoenix.

so would you say steph curry is better than joe johnson?

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:02 PM
he makes nowhere near kobe money... relax

He makes superstar money though. The crazy part? He doesn't even have the worst deal in the NBA. Another guy in NY does.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:04 PM
so would you say steph curry is better than joe johnson?

Meh, he can't stay healthy, we have no clue how good he will be, so no. Honestly, there are just not many good SG's today.

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:04 PM
so does amare except JJ plays defense and GAMES!

Amare averaged 25 ppg and for half a season carried the Knicks single handedly. Oh yeah was an MVP canidate something Joe hasn't sniffed in his career. But both players are overatted bud no matter how you slice it

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:05 PM
You keep skipping over his playoff dives. Look at the numbers dude, you will be amazed at the drop off from regular season to playoffs with Joe, outside one season in Phoenix.

same thing with andre iguodala... but we dont have threads being made about him and how hes overrated... actually people think hes underrated

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:07 PM
Amare averaged 25 ppg and for half a season carried the Knicks single handedly. Oh yeah was an MVP canidate something Joe hasn't sniffed in his career. But both players are overatted bud no matter how you slice it

amare will be a max contract role player as soon as he comes back... JJ is still productive and healthy

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:07 PM
same thing with andre iguodala... but we dont have threads being made about him and how hes overrated... actually people think hes underrated

Iggy is a SF forced to play SG...

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:08 PM
same thing with andre iguodala... but we dont have threads being made about him and how hes overrated... actually people think hes underrated

Defense dude. He also makes less money, and his offensive fall off hasn't been QUITE as steep. But he is an elite defender, so he is helping out big time on one side of the ball at least.

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:09 PM
amare will be a max contract role player as soon as he comes back... JJ is still productive and healthy

How is he doing this season thou?

Plus Amare doesn't disappear in playoff games like Joe does. Both contract are hideous. Plus Joe has sucked this year. He's not worth the money and you helped the Hawks trade an untradeable player

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:11 PM
How is he doing this season thou?

Plus Amare doesn't disappear in playoff games like Joe does. Both contract are hideous. Plus Joe has sucked this year. He's not worth the money and you helped the Hawks trade an untradeable player

I see why Brooklyn made the trade though. They needed to add someone to keep DWill there, or it would have been a nightmare for their new owner. He doesn't care about the money. As far as basketball sense goes, the acquisition was stupid, but they were going to be a horrible team had DWill left. At least now they have a competitive team that can win a series in the playoffs.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:14 PM
How is he doing this season thou?

Plus Amare doesn't disappear in playoff games like Joe does. Both contract are hideous. Plus Joe has sucked this year. He's not worth the money and you helped the Hawks trade an untradeable player

lol hes played 5 games with a new team so far

and amare has definitely gone ghost in playoff games and series for that matter

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:15 PM
I see why Brooklyn made the trade though. They needed to add someone to keep DWill there, or it would have been a nightmare for their new owner. He doesn't care about the money. As far as basketball sense goes, the acquisition was stupid, but they were going to be a horrible team had DWill left. At least now they have a competitive team that can win a series in the playoffs.

But they basically did what the Knicks did and jumped the gun for a serverly overpaid player. Joe probably has one season left before he declines and the Nets still aren't good enough since they gave Brook and max deal and brought back Hump. Plus DWill hasn't been a top PG of late

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:16 PM
lol hes played 5 games with a new team so far

and amare has definitely gone ghost in playoff games and series for that matter

Dude Boston and Miami couldn't guard him when he was on the floor. When he was with the suns check his playoff stats.... Amare and Joe shouldn't even be in the same sentence when it comes to playoff performance :facepalm:

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:17 PM
either way there are 3 players who are more overpaid than joe johnson.

Lakers4life08
11-12-2012, 05:18 PM
Harden getting Max and he is playing like **** last 4 games shooting smth like 35%....Johnson will be ok.....offcourse he is getting too much,but this is todays nba

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:19 PM
Dude Boston and Miami couldn't guard him when he was on the floor. When he was with the suns check his playoff stats.... Amare and Joe shouldn't even be in the same sentence when it comes to playoff performance :facepalm:

I could care less what he did ages ago... hes a shell of that player now

and


amare had a 11 ppg decrease from his regular season stats to his playoff stats in 2010-2011

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:19 PM
either way there are 3 players who are more overpaid than joe johnson.

No they're 3 players who's just as overpaid as Joe

KnickaBocka.44
11-12-2012, 05:20 PM
He makes superstar money though. The crazy part? He doesn't even have the worst deal in the NBA. Another guy in NY does.

How is Amare's deal worse than Johnsons when Johnsons is a year longer and Amare put up the same numbers as Bosh last year?

JerseysFinest
11-12-2012, 05:20 PM
I see why Brooklyn made the trade though. They needed to add someone to keep DWill there, or it would have been a nightmare for their new owner. He doesn't care about the money. As far as basketball sense goes, the acquisition was stupid, but they were going to be a horrible team had DWill left. At least now they have a competitive team that can win a series in the playoffs.

I think the move wasn't necessarily a bad one basketball wise. The Nets were in need of a perimeter scorer and they got a more than solid player in Joe Johnson. His play as of late has been far from good, but I think it's fair to give him time to adjust and grow more comfortable in Avery Johnson's system.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:22 PM
No they're 3 players who's just as overpaid as Joe

But Joe is the only player that still plays at a high level

you're really mad

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:22 PM
How is Amare's deal worse than Johnsons when Johnsons is a year longer and Amare put up the same numbers as Bosh last year?

health concerns going forward. Amare was not good last year. Bosh was a 3rd wheel on offense, but MUCH better defensively than Amare, while getting paid just a little less. Amare's explosiveness is gone. Furthermore, it appears he and Melo are just not a fit, and that Melo is actually better at PF, so I am not sure what role Amare has going forward.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
How is Amare's deal worse than Johnsons when Johnsons is a year longer and Amare put up the same numbers as Bosh last year?

bosh actually plays defense

and joe johnson actually stays healthy

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
I think the move wasn't necessarily a bad one basketball wise. The Nets were in need of a perimeter scorer and they got a more than solid player in Joe Johnson. His play as of late has been far from good, but I think it's fair to give him time to adjust and grow more comfortable in Avery Johnson's system.

Unless his trend of no-show come playoff time changes, it will be a bad basketball decision, but that couples in with giving 2 max deals as well to go with the trade, meaning, Nets fans, this is your team for at least the next few years.

KnickaBocka.44
11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
Joe wouldnt even be talked about in a post like this if he wasnt on the Nets, face it we are the real deal. Now people are paying attention, nobody was keeping track of his stats. and if you want to talk about someone not doing well its Roy Hibbert

Hibbert doesn't make the money Joe does.

People are paying attention because his numbers are career lows while getting paid like a superstar.

JerseysFinest
11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
How is Amare's deal worse than Johnsons when Johnsons is a year longer and Amare put up the same numbers as Bosh last year?

Because of insurance. Amar'e has no insurance on his contract. If he continues to accumulate all these injuries and miss time, the Knicks will still be paying that 100 million dollar contract they gave him. Johnson will inevitably decline, and is evidently overpaid, but at least he can give you 10-20 points a game on a nightly basis and there is no major injury concern. People will say he'll lose his speed or athleticism, but the Nets could use him in a Ray Allen type role as he ages.

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:24 PM
But Joe is the only player that still plays at a high level

you're really mad

:laugh: they basically averaged the same amount of points last season, only difference is Joe was the go to guy and focal point while Amare was the second option. When he was the first he average 25 ppg....

I'm not mad bro, you're a homer. Amare on his worst season is on par with Joe which is sad

JerseysFinest
11-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Unless his trend of no-show come playoff time changes, it will be a bad basketball decision, but that couples in with giving 2 max deals as well to go with the trade, meaning, Nets fans, this is your team for at least the next few years.

That remains to be seen, but hopefully it changes playing with two scoring threats to take the pressure off him in Deron Williams and Brook Lopez. That's assuming the Nets make the postseason of course.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:28 PM
That remains to be seen, but hopefully it changes playing with two scoring threats to take the pressure off him in Deron Williams and Brook Lopez. That's assuming the Nets make the postseason of course.

I think it may change, only because Atlanta was putrid at PG most of the time, meaning they asked Joe to play a lot in isolation come playoff time. When you run into the defenses out east, you better be good at doing that if asked. Joe is much better being utilized off the ball, off screens, and playing the catch and shoot versus having to use the dribble to create everything.

I just worry there may be a mental aspect to it now. But having Deron should help him efficiency wise big time comes playoffs. And yes, they should make it, barring a situation like the Wolves are having, where even the mascot will probably tear something.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:28 PM
:laugh: they basically averaged the same amount of points last season, only difference is Joe was the go to guy and focal point while Amare was the second option. When he was the first he average 25 ppg....

I'm not mad bro, you're a homer. Amare on his worst season is on par with Joe which is sad

you're calling me a homer?


LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:28 PM
If I were an Atlanta fan, the Paul draft would still keep me up at night.

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:29 PM
you're calling me a homer?


LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

Yes

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:30 PM
If I were an Atlanta fan, the Paul draft would still keep me up at night.

They got rid of Joe. They can sleep better now

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:31 PM
Yes

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

you're queen homer 2nd behind DMF

congrats

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:31 PM
They got rid of Joe. They can sleep better now

Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. Why? WHYYYYY?

I feel Joe would have been a MUCH better player next to CP3 (that may be very obvious).

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:31 PM
stop with the homer crap please.

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:33 PM
you're queen homer 2nd behind DMF

congrats

Grow up dude

KnickaBocka.44
11-12-2012, 05:35 PM
With the way the Knicks play without Amare, I would rather have Amare's contract on my payroll and him on the bench half the time than pay Joe Johnson his contract and watch him regress my team into oblivion over a longer period of time, just sayin...

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:36 PM
Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. Why? WHYYYYY?

I feel Joe would have been a MUCH better player next to CP3 (that may be very obvious).

Funny thing is, idk why Williams was a projected first to begin with. Never had a jumper, defense was below average and he was a bench player

*Silver&Black*
11-12-2012, 05:37 PM
If I were an Atlanta fan, the Paul draft would still keep me up at night.

The only thing I'm worried about right now is finding a good coach and for Ferry to figure out (trade) the Smith situation. No way should we give him max money to re-sign. The Paul thing sucked for a while, but I moved on. Seeing him flop around and cry to the refs, I'm actually happy with Teague.

JerseysFinest
11-12-2012, 05:37 PM
I think it may change, only because Atlanta was putrid at PG most of the time, meaning they asked Joe to play a lot in isolation come playoff time. When you run into the defenses out east, you better be good at doing that if asked. Joe is much better being utilized off the ball, off screens, and playing the catch and shoot versus having to use the dribble to create everything.

I just worry there may be a mental aspect to it now. But having Deron should help him efficiency wise big time comes playoffs. And yes, they should make it, barring a situation like the Wolves are having, where even the mascot will probably tear something.

I've seen Avery Johnson implement a few sets with the goal being having Johnson ultimately be the recipient of a catch and shoot, or Johnson posts his man down in the post, using his size as an advantage, but for some reason he seems way too passive. He's being very unselfish and maybe too willing to pass the ball at times. I like the idea of being unselfish and getting the best shot, but sometimes you really have to take certain shots you have. So I definitely agree with you that there is somewhat of a concern with the mental aspect of the game. But, hopefully that can be attributed to him being uncomfortable in the system.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:39 PM
Funny thing is, idk why Williams was a projected first to begin with. Never had a jumper, defense was below average and he was a bench player

well, Bogut went first. Atlanta had an infatuation with tweener forwards for a couple of years there, remember? "We love size and athletic ability, and players who can play multiple positions". They took Josh Smith the year before. Along with Josh Childress. Didn't get what they were doing.

GiantsSwaGG
11-12-2012, 05:44 PM
well, Bogut went first. Atlanta had an infatuation with tweener forwards for a couple of years there, remember? "We love size and athletic ability, and players who can play multiple positions". They took Josh Smith the year before. Along with Josh Childress. Didn't get what they were doing.

Childress, at least I thought would be an elite defender. Never was high on his offensively. Marvin Williams never made sense whatsoever. Bogut if it wasn't for the injuries would of been a top 10 center. Sad thing is, Joe and Josh, horford, you put an elite or at least an above average pg who can allow for Joe to play off the ball, would of made them title contenders IMO

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:46 PM
The only thing I'm worried about right now is finding a good coach and for Ferry to figure out (trade) the Smith situation. No way should we give him max money to re-sign. The Paul thing sucked for a while, but I moved on. Seeing him flop around and cry to the refs, I'm actually happy with Teague.

Yep, need a good coach. I agree. They are better off trading Smith for young talent, there is no way he is worth max money, and with the list of free agents very short next summer, assuming Dwight/Bynum/Paul re-sign, Jefferson and Smith are getting paid.

You would rather have Paul, cmon now. Think basketball wise, not emotionally.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:47 PM
With the way the Knicks play without Amare, I would rather have Amare's contract on my payroll and him on the bench half the time than pay Joe Johnson his contract and watch him regress my team into oblivion over a longer period of time, just sayin...

lol this is funny

CavsYanksDuke
11-12-2012, 05:48 PM
He hasn't played well in years, why is this surprising?

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 05:50 PM
Childress, at least I thought would be an elite defender. Never was high on his offensively. Marvin Williams never made sense whatsoever. Bogut if it wasn't for the injuries would of been a top 10 center. Sad thing is, Joe and Josh, horford, you put an elite or at least an above average pg who can allow for Joe to play off the ball, would of made them title contenders IMO

They weren't getting Horford with Paul there. They wouldn't have finished with only 30 wins that season. Noah may have been around when they picked though, who knows.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 05:52 PM
He hasn't played well in years, why is this surprising?

so averaging 18 ppg while shooting 45% from field isnt playing well?

thats news to me

netsgiantsyanks
11-12-2012, 06:02 PM
Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. Why? WHYYYYY?

I feel Joe would have been a MUCH better player next to CP3 (that may be very obvious).

yeah, the hawks ****ed up bad on that one. they even could of took d-will.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 06:03 PM
yeah, the hawks ****ed up bad on that one. they even could of took d-will.

I would be pissed as a fan. Either one may have seriously put them over the top. Oh well, life goes on. Every team has some misses.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 06:07 PM
I would be pissed as a fan. Either one may have seriously put them over the top. Oh well, life goes on. Every team has some misses.

thisssss


nets were suppose to take kobe bryant but calipari got juked

AddiX
11-12-2012, 06:08 PM
I think JJ just isn't as motivated, and quite frankly is breaking down. He just doesn't seem to move the same, and seems to exclusively take what's giving to Him, instead of trying to push it.

For a short time, he was very very good. Hasn't looked the same since though.

NYSpirit1
11-12-2012, 06:57 PM
He's just not that good anymore. He came into todays game with 5 FTA all season. Think about that for a second.

He'll score 15ppg because he'll take 15 shots per game because he's Joe Johnson, but he's not a star anymore, only by name.

He is a catch and shoot player so far, and yes he is a star. Who will be the other SG in the ASG besides Wade? Its going to be Joe

JR Smith.

Hawkeye15
11-12-2012, 06:58 PM
I think JJ just isn't as motivated, and quite frankly is breaking down. He just doesn't seem to move the same, and seems to exclusively take what's giving to Him, instead of trying to push it.

For a short time, he was very very good. Hasn't looked the same since though.

Look at the playoff numbers. He just falls apart so many times when the real games start. Which is why I am dying to see what Love does when he gets there. Usually the first time around is a pardon, many players struggle their first playoffs, its an entire different intensity and pressure. But the real stars then become really good playoff players.

jmoney85
11-12-2012, 06:58 PM
JR Smith.

:facepalm:

WAYNEBO
11-12-2012, 08:41 PM
well, Bogut went first. Atlanta had an infatuation with tweener forwards for a couple of years there, remember? "We love size and athletic ability, and players who can play multiple positions". They took Josh Smith the year before. Along with Josh Childress. Didn't get what they were doing.

I remember that... they had log jam at the forward position.

AddiX
11-13-2012, 12:34 AM
Look at the playoff numbers. He just falls apart so many times when the real games start. Which is why I am dying to see what Love does when he gets there. Usually the first time around is a pardon, many players struggle their first playoffs, its an entire different intensity and pressure. But the real stars then become really good playoff players.

He had a few decent runs I thought.

And in all honesty his teams werent rdy for big playoff pushs. He was on athletic teams w relatively no vets, and an offensivive system that was pretty much 1v1, where his best helper was a aging mike bibby.

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 12:42 AM
Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. Why? WHYYYYY?

I feel Joe would have been a MUCH better player next to CP3 (that may be very obvious).
The Brilliant One Billy Knight wanted Joe Johnson to play point guard, and said Chris Paul was "too short."

I hate everything.

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 12:47 AM
Also, he has been on the decline the last 3-4 years, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 12:48 AM
Also, he has been on the decline the last 3-4 years, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html


can you please so me this "decline" you speak of

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 01:02 AM
can you please so me this "decline" you speak of
Sure, no problem. I've said on many occasions that he stopped being the Hawks' best player around that '09-'10 season, Josh and Al both passed him by and he started deferring more. The numbers on your link back that up. His prime years were from '05 until about there.

Quick question for you though and be honest: Would you be defending him so passionately if he weren't on your team? Hawks fans were pretty objective about him during his time here.

ThunderousDemon
11-13-2012, 01:11 AM
Joe Johnson is the key to victory, just ask Cpt.DoMeFavors.

AddiX
11-13-2012, 01:13 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html


can you please so me this "decline" you speak of

You don't see it? :eyebrow:

DoMeFavors
11-13-2012, 01:28 AM
Its so suprising that as fans of the NBA you guys root for someone to do bad....seems like you love it. They are away from their families every day and he has done a lot for basketball and for you to root against him is down right wrong. Joe is a very humble and nice guy...but you guys just keep trash talking him because of his contract. He didnt choose for the Hawks to sign him to that, he just signed it.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 01:29 AM
Sure, no problem. I've said on many occasions that he stopped being the Hawks' best player around that '09-'10 season, Josh and Al both passed him by and he started deferring more. The numbers on your link back that up. His prime years were from '05 until about there.

Quick question for you though and be honest: Would you be defending him so passionately if he weren't on your team? Hawks fans were pretty objective about him during his time here.

I'm just defending him because it gets a little ridiculous.... all of his numbers have been consistent for the last 4-5 years... I dont see a decline at all... his shooting percentage is pretty steady same with his rebounding and assists

I agree that he's overpaid... no doubt about that ... but to be truthful, a lot of players are overpaid in this league

ThunderousDemon
11-13-2012, 01:31 AM
Its so suprising that as fans of the NBA you guys root for someone to do bad....seems like you love it. They are away from their families every day and he has done a lot for basketball and for you to root against him is down right wrong. Joe is a very humble and nice guy...but you guys just keep trash talking him because of his contract. He didnt choose for the Hawks to sign him to that, he just signed it.

O Captain! My Captain!

DoMeFavors
11-13-2012, 01:31 AM
How did Josh Smith and Horford supass him? Who led them all in scoring? Who led them all in assists? Who with the game on the line got the ball? You guys are just looking for anything. Joe Johnson was that Hawks team, they were really good last year started off very good now look at them, just because they lost Joe. And Horford didnt play last year, so now Joe isnt playing this year for the Hawks. See the difference, Joe is the guy that won them games.

Lakers4life08
11-13-2012, 01:54 AM
Joe Johnson and Harden=worst max guys in todays nba

Mayweather&NYK
11-13-2012, 02:12 AM
Joe Johnson shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as James Harden...^

More-Than-Most
11-13-2012, 02:22 AM
Its so suprising that as fans of the NBA you guys root for someone to do bad....seems like you love it. They are away from their families every day and he has done a lot for basketball and for you to root against him is down right wrong. Joe is a very humble and nice guy...but you guys just keep trash talking him because of his contract. He didnt choose for the Hawks to sign him to that, he just signed it.

Us rooting against them clearly hurts them correct? This is a terrible argument even for you

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 02:28 AM
Its so suprising that as fans of the NBA you guys root for someone to do bad....seems like you love it. They are away from their families every day and he has done a lot for basketball and for you to root against him is down right wrong. Joe is a very humble and nice guy...but you guys just keep trash talking him because of his contract. He didnt choose for the Hawks to sign him to that, he just signed it.
Rick Sund was the Hawks GM at the time and offered him a 4-year $60M deal before the all-star break prior to him becoming a FA, which he chose to turn down. Then after signing the bigger deal that sucked up a big chunk of the payroll, he started complaining about needing "more help." That's his right to sign that contract, and I would have done the same because it's still a business, but he took it so nobody wanted to hear any of his whining. I do not root for him to fail, just calling it like I saw it. He helped get my team out of the dumpster, but for many reasons (salary, decline, fan apathy), I'd make that trade every single time. Signing him was a bad move they "had" to make or else they would have lost a cornerstone player for nothing (to another East playoff team, mind you), but now with his decline and ballooning salary, that's someone else problem.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-13-2012, 02:37 AM
Joe Johnson and Harden=worst max guys in todays nba

Harden >> JJ

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 02:43 AM
How did Josh Smith and Horford supass him? Who led them all in scoring? Who led them all in assists? Who with the game on the line got the ball? You guys are just looking for anything. Joe Johnson was that Hawks team, they were really good last year started off very good now look at them, just because they lost Joe. And Horford didnt play last year, so now Joe isnt playing this year for the Hawks. See the difference, Joe is the guy that won them games.
Those are simple stats which do not tell the whole story. Josh and Al had a bigger impact than Joe on both ends of the floor the last few years. Horford went down last season, but they stayed afloat because in addition to Joe, Josh had probably the best year of his career (and played every game), Jeff Teague had a very productive first season as the starting PG (and played every game), Zaza Pachulia and Ivan Johnson played very well with bigger roles, and maybe most importantly, many of their shooters had surprisingly great years (Hawks were Top 5 in 3PT% last season as you can see here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html#team::9)). But it was clear to anyone who had watched this team that Joe was no longer the most valuable player on the roster as those players were coming into their own.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:00 AM
How did Josh Smith and Horford supass him? Who led them all in scoring? Who led them all in assists? Who with the game on the line got the ball? You guys are just looking for anything. Joe Johnson was that Hawks team, they were really good last year started off very good now look at them, just because they lost Joe. And Horford didnt play last year, so now Joe isnt playing this year for the Hawks. See the difference, Joe is the guy that won them games.

I mean, you have proven to have an elementary understanding of the game, therefore it would be a waste of time to show you why.

Joe Johnson is not, and has never been, and elite player. This is a fact.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:01 AM
Joe Johnson and Harden=worst max guys in todays nba

omg, I would take a 23 year old Harden 10/10 times over Johnson.

Avenged
11-13-2012, 03:08 AM
I mean, you have proven to have an elementary understanding of the game, therefore it would be a waste of time to show you why.

Joe Johnson is not, and has never been, and elite player. This is a fact.

:laugh:

AddiX
11-13-2012, 03:11 AM
In defense of JJ, harden hasnt done anything to say he's better than what JJ once was.

I think it's a pretty good comparison in all honesty. If Harden lead the rockets to the playoffs A bunch of times and got to the 2nd rnd I'd be surprised.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:12 AM
Joe Johnson shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as James Harden...^

how about james harden make 6 straight all-star games before we start crowning people

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:14 AM
In defense of JJ, harden hasnt done anything to say he's better than what JJ once was.

I think it's a pretty good comparison in all honesty. If Harden lead the rockets to the playoffs A bunch of times and got to the 2nd rnd I'd be surprised.

why do you have to make sense?

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:14 AM
In defense of JJ, harden hasnt done anything to say he's better than what JJ once was.

I think it's a pretty good comparison in all honesty. If Harden lead the rockets to the playoffs A bunch of times and got to the 2nd rnd I'd be surprised.

Harden has already put forth a far more efficient season than JJ, while both were not first options. Johnson is flat out not a good #1, or #2. If you wouldn't take Harden any day of the week over him, gotta question your knowledge bud.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:17 AM
Harden has already put forth a far more efficient season than JJ, while both were not first options. Johnson is flat out not a good #1, or #2. If you wouldn't take Harden any day of the week over him, gotta question your knowledge bud.

lol

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:17 AM
how about james harden make 6 straight all-star games before we start crowning people

Maybe we should ask Joe to not crater like a scared little girl when the playoffs start instead of asking a 23 year old to make as many ASG's as a SG in the weak east.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:18 AM
lol

what are you laughing at? Show me where Joe didn't crater come playoff time, outside his year in Phx.

Good luck.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:19 AM
Maybe we should ask Joe to not crater like a scared little girl when the playoffs start instead of asking a 23 year old to make as many ASG's as a SG in the weak east.

harden did the same thing in the playoffs bro... and he had durant and westbrook to carry him... johnson was the face of the franchise in an ISO defense

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:21 AM
harden did the same thing in the playoffs bro... and he had durant and westbrook to carry him... johnson was the face of the franchise in an ISO defense

Hardens playoff efficiency takes a giant dump on JJ's. Fact

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:21 AM
what are you laughing at? Show me where Joe didn't crater come playoff time, outside his year in Phx.

Good luck.

some players arent playoff performers... that shouldn't degrade him when comparing to harden

lets wait and see if harden can carry houston in the playoffs before we start calling him better than joe

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:22 AM
Hardens playoff efficiency takes a giant dump on JJ's. Fact

sixth man , #3 option.... a lot easier to be successful... lets see how he does as the number one for at least a full season

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:25 AM
some players arent playoff performers... that shouldn't degrade him when comparing to harden

no, it literally does. Johnson, outside his Phx series years ago, shrinks like a dude in a cold pool when the playoffs start. Harden does not.


lets wait and see if harden can carry houston in the playoffs before we start calling him better than joe

Even as a 3rd option (which Joe was for the last 2 years), he couldn't sniff the efficiency numbers Harden put up, both in the regular season, and Joe has never had a playoff run like Harden. Not even close.

There is no way on this earth, even salaries aside, I would take Johnson over Harden. None.

AddiX
11-13-2012, 03:26 AM
Hardens playoff efficiency takes a giant dump on JJ's. Fact

Harden has never even made the playoffs as a starter!

How does someone who swears by efficiency stats completely neglect that? That's insane.

You keep bringing up playoffs, the thunder are a champion caliber team, WITHOUT harden!

I've watched a lot of playoff games that JJ was in while he played for ATl, his team wasn't built for playoffs, no iq,awful offensive system,, and he was double and triple teamed often. for someone who makes every excuse in the book for klove I find it funny you dint acknowledge the defencies on jj's team.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:27 AM
sixth man , #3 option.... a lot easier to be successful... lets see how he does as the number one for at least a full season

Well, here is to hoping JJ does the opposite of every playoff run he has done over the past 5 years man, for all you Nets fans. Me, I will take the ultra-efficient SG who is younger, and can play any style of ball.

Cheers.

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 04:43 AM
Harden has never even made the playoffs as a starter!

How does someone who swears by efficiency stats completely neglect that? That's insane.

You keep bringing up playoffs, the thunder are a champion caliber team, WITHOUT harden!

I've watched a lot of playoff games that JJ was in while he played for ATl, his team wasn't built for playoffs, no iq,awful offensive system,, and he was double and triple teamed often. for someone who makes every excuse in the book for klove I find it funny you dint acknowledge the defencies on jj's team.
Those Hawks teams won because of their defense, which is why the versatility of Josh and Al was more valuable. They could have used a coach with a decent offensive system to get more movement and take advantage of their talented young bigs. But they were Top 10 in Opponents PPG from 2008 through last season. A team won't go anywhere in the Eastern Conference without having a good defense because the playoffs on that side is like a street fight. Every time those Hawks got eliminated though, it was by an elite defensive team (Cavs, Bulls, Celtics,etc) and too often Joe succumbed to the pressure even though he didn't always have the toughest individual matchup on the floor.

DoMeFavors
11-13-2012, 08:25 AM
Maybe we should ask Joe to not crater like a scared little girl when the playoffs start instead of asking a 23 year old to make as many ASG's as a SG in the weak east.

Remember when he single handedly beat the 08 Celtics by himself? or when he wouldnt miss against Bulls 2 years ago.

xxplayerxx23
11-13-2012, 09:08 AM
Remember when he single handedly beat the 08 Celtics by himself? or when he wouldnt miss against Bulls 2 years ago.

:eyebrow: The 08 Celtics won it all.....

xxplayerxx23
11-13-2012, 09:11 AM
Harden has never even made the playoffs as a starter!

How does someone who swears by efficiency stats completely neglect that? That's insane.

You keep bringing up playoffs, the thunder are a champion caliber team, WITHOUT harden!

I've watched a lot of playoff games that JJ was in while he played for ATl, his team wasn't built for playoffs, no iq,awful offensive system,, and he was double and triple teamed often. for someone who makes every excuse in the book for klove I find it funny you dint acknowledge the defencies on jj's team.

Um are you kidding here?? Harden played STARTERS minutes, you seriously think he couldn't get the starting Job over Thabo? Please, JJ has no excuse in Atlanta. Josh smith, Al Horford and towards the end an up and coming Jeff Teague. This is a top 5 team in the east every year and he disapears every year in a weak east. Give Kevin Love Joe Johnsons supporting cast in atlanta and good luck trying to convince people he would choke like JJ does on a regular basis come playoff time.

Lakers4life08
11-13-2012, 09:49 AM
both harden and johnson playing like garbage so far.....so its good comparision

chrisf975
11-13-2012, 10:12 AM
Well, here is to hoping JJ does the opposite of every playoff run he has done over the past 5 years man, for all you Nets fans. Me, I will take the ultra-efficient SG who is younger, and can play any style of ball.

Cheers.

Ya no **** you would take the 23 year old over the 31 year old for the future. And all the **** you talk about Joe Johnson's offensive game do you forget that you have to play defense in basketball as well? Joe Johnson has always been a very good defender, Harden on the other hand...

GiantsSwaGG
11-13-2012, 12:05 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html


can you please so me this "decline" you speak of

:facepalm: it's basically shows he's on the decline

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Harden has never even made the playoffs as a starter!

How does someone who swears by efficiency stats completely neglect that? That's insane.

You keep bringing up playoffs, the thunder are a champion caliber team, WITHOUT harden!

I've watched a lot of playoff games that JJ was in while he played for ATl, his team wasn't built for playoffs, no iq,awful offensive system,, and he was double and triple teamed often. for someone who makes every excuse in the book for klove I find it funny you dint acknowledge the defencies on jj's team.

by that rational JJ has been superior to Ginoboli all these years.

See where your logic is flawed? Regarding Love, why, even with an inferior cast, does he trounce JJ's efficiency? Can't have it both ways.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 02:24 PM
Ya no **** you would take the 23 year old over the 31 year old for the future. And all the **** you talk about Joe Johnson's offensive game do you forget that you have to play defense in basketball as well? Joe Johnson has always been a very good defender, Harden on the other hand...

Johnson is an average defender at best. Look, he is a fine regular season SG, but he shrinks come playoff time. Harden does not.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 02:27 PM
both harden and johnson playing like garbage so far.....so its good comparision

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2013&p2=hardeja01&y2=2013

Harden isn't playing at the crazy efficiency levels he has been the past 2 years, but he was traded to a team that had a regular season game that evening, lets give him some time to learn the offense and develop chemistry, something Johnson had an entire training camp and preseason to do. I have said I will hold my judgement on whether he can be a legit #1 until I see it for myself, but I have no problem predicting he will be superior to what Joe Johnson did.

chrisf975
11-13-2012, 02:56 PM
Johnson is an average defender at best. Look, he is a fine regular season SG, but he shrinks come playoff time. Harden does not.

That remains to be seen he sure shrunk in the finals last year. Joe Johnson had some huge games in the playoffs, but I do agree with you that overall he did not play well in his playoff career. And I'm sorry if you think Joe is an average defender you are 100% wrong.

colinskik
11-13-2012, 02:56 PM
JJ is not a top talent in the NBA. If you can't see that then you haven't been watching him of late. I've watched every Net game thus far in the early season and I don't like what I see from him. Sure, he'll improve as time goes on and he and D Will get accustomed to each other, but I'm really not impressed with him.

And this comes from a completely objective place despite the Knicks avatar. I live blocks from the Baclay's Center and want to see a good Nets team but they don't look as good as I had hoped.

chrisf975
11-13-2012, 03:04 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2013&p2=hardeja01&y2=2013

Harden isn't playing at the crazy efficiency levels he has been the past 2 years, but he was traded to a team that had a regular season game that evening, lets give him some time to learn the offense and develop chemistry, something Johnson had an entire training camp and preseason to do. I have said I will hold my judgement on whether he can be a legit #1 until I see it for myself, but I have no problem predicting he will be superior to what Joe Johnson did.

That first game was the best he's played, after the first two monster games he's been pretty bad.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:08 PM
That remains to be seen he sure shrunk in the finals last year. Joe Johnson had some huge games in the playoffs, but I do agree with you that overall he did not play well in his playoff career. And I'm sorry if you think Joe is an average defender you are 100% wrong.

one series where a team game planned specifically to stop him. Johnson has routinely underperformed in the playoffs, with a substantial dropoff from his regular season production, and I mean a landslide. The fact that he got that $120 million deal 10 seconds after maybe the worst series of his life is mind boggling.

Simply put, Harden has been the better player for 2 years, and is better this year, even on a team he is still trying to learn.

Johnson is an average defender. Has been for 2 seasons now. The last 2 years in Atlanta, he was their 3rd best player.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:09 PM
That first game was the best he's played, after the first two monster games he's been pretty bad.

versus Iggy, Tony Allen, and LeBron for 3 of them....

those are the top 3 perimeter defenders in the game. They routinely lower players numbers.

Chronz
11-13-2012, 03:11 PM
Remember when he single handedly beat the 08 Celtics by himself? or when he wouldnt miss against Bulls 2 years ago.

What about the other 6 games?

JordansBulls
11-13-2012, 03:12 PM
Bulls should still trade for this guy.

ewing
11-13-2012, 03:16 PM
Johnson is an average defender at best. Look, he is a fine regular season SG, but he shrinks come playoff time. Harden does not.


So you think is probably a below average defender?

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:18 PM
So you think is probably a below average defender?

I think he is average. He had some years where he was a plus defender, but he is about average now. Doesn't help that he plays on a team that doesn't seem to care about defense, that usually kills any motivation from a player who doesn't have it internally on that end.

Chronz
11-13-2012, 03:20 PM
One thing I disagree with, Johnson is a good defender, especially for someone carrying his minutes/offensive load.

Hes a 240 lb SG for **** sake, he gives you some versatility on switches and postups. Hes not a gazelle but hes not slow footed for someone with his size/strength. He has never struck me as someone who didn't try either so his effort makes him a plus defender in my book. I dont know if hes still that player tho

Bausman
11-13-2012, 03:22 PM
People have been complaining about that contract since the day he signed it.... lol
As for his numbers, he's in a new system and the season is young.

He's shooting a great percentages from behind the arc so far. I think he's use to handling the ball, not playing off he ball. But I'm sure he and D-Will can work something out.

Who is that girl in your sig?

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:22 PM
One thing I disagree with, Johnson is a good defender, especially for someone carrying his minutes/offensive load.

Hes a 240 lb SG for **** sake, he gives you some versatility on switches and postups. Hes not a gazelle but hes not slow footed for someone with his size/strength. He has never struck me as someone who didn't try either so his effort makes him a plus defender in my book. I dont know if hes still that player tho

He wasn't as I watched him last season, and while we are barely into this season, he hasn't looked strong their either.

Atlanta tried to use him as a creator, instead of letting him be the natural wing he is. That is one reason I am optimistic that his playoff nose dives may cease this year, with Deron next to him.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:24 PM
Who is that girl in your sig?

Christy Mack

ewing
11-13-2012, 03:27 PM
He wasn't as I watched him last season, and while we are barely into this season, he hasn't looked strong their either.

Atlanta tried to use him as a creator, instead of letting him be the natural wing he is. That is one reason I am optimistic that his playoff nose dives may cease this year, with Deron next to him.



I agree with both you and Chronz here. I think JJ should produce better next to Deron. He was an excellent wing in his Phx days. I also think his size and strength have made him a solid defender

GiantsSwaGG
11-13-2012, 03:51 PM
Christy Mack

Who's that girl on your sig?

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:54 PM
Who's that girl on your sig?

dude, I am going to put you on ignore if you take another shot at Swayze :p

I have a complete mancrush on Swayze. Have for 15-20 years.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 03:56 PM
dude, I am going to put you on ignore if you take another shot at Swayze :p

I have a complete mancrush on Swayze. Have for 15-20 years.

is that swayze pic from red dawn?

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 03:58 PM
is that swayze pic from red dawn?

That one is from Point Break I believe. By the way, no way on earth I am seeing the new Red Dawn. There should be a law that any movie Swayze starred in is not to be re-made. Ever.

GiantsSwaGG
11-13-2012, 04:01 PM
That one is from Point Break I believe. By the way, no way on earth I am seeing the new Red Dawn. There should be a law that any movie Swayze starred in is not to be re-made. Ever.

Dirty dancing and Ghost are classics and my fav movies. I still laugh when he sang "Henry the 8th I am" :laugh2:

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 04:02 PM
to wong foo

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 04:05 PM
Dirty dancing and Ghost are classics and my fav movies. I still laugh when he sang "Henry the 8th I am" :laugh2:

looking back, I probably shouldn't have let my 7 year old sister watch Dirty Dancing on a daily basis when I was babysitting her...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwlM-C0jAfQ

popo85
11-13-2012, 04:28 PM
dude, I am going to put you on ignore if you take another shot at Swayze :p

I have a complete mancrush on Swayze. Have for 15-20 years.

shes like the wind great song:clap:

chrisf975
11-13-2012, 04:40 PM
dude, I am going to put you on ignore if you take another shot at Swayze :p

I have a complete mancrush on Swayze. Have for 15-20 years.

You know, I always thought it was a picture if Brook Lopez with a wig on.:D

Hawkeye15
11-13-2012, 04:52 PM
You know, I always thought it was a picture if Brook Lopez with a wig on.:D

lol

AddiX
11-13-2012, 05:41 PM
by that rational JJ has been superior to Ginoboli all these years.

See where your logic is flawed? Regarding Love, why, even with an inferior cast, does he trounce JJ's efficiency? Can't have it both ways.

The logic isn't flawed at all, you can't compare a 3rd option bench player effeciency stats on a championship caliber team to a #1 option on a scrub atlanta team.

If thts the case that I guess I should judge harden stats purely on what he did against the heat in the championship. See what i did there?

AddiX
11-13-2012, 05:45 PM
Um are you kidding here?? Harden played STARTERS minutes, you seriously think he couldn't get the starting Job over Thabo? Please, JJ has no excuse in Atlanta. Josh smith, Al Horford and towards the end an up and coming Jeff Teague. This is a top 5 team in the east every year and he disapears every year in a weak east. Give Kevin Love Joe Johnsons supporting cast in atlanta and good luck trying to convince people he would choke like JJ does on a regular basis come playoff time.

Give me a break.

JJ is suppose to go far in the playoffs w horford, and the most inconsistent overrated player ever Josh smith? O, don't forget "I have no legs and no jumper" mike bibby.

All those players JJ had on his Atlanta squad, where they at? What are they doing now? Not a damn thing.

Bravo95
11-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Remember when he single handedly beat the 08 Celtics by himself?
He shot 5-17 in Game 7 of that series.... the Hawks got blown out by 34.

or when he wouldnt miss against Bulls 2 years ago.
The only player who made a name for himself in that series was Jeff Teague. Joe played well in Games 1 and 4, but he didn't even crack 20pts in the other 4 games (all losses).

KnicksorBust
11-13-2012, 05:49 PM
You keep skipping over his playoff dives. Look at the numbers dude, you will be amazed at the drop off from regular season to playoffs with Joe, outside one season in Phoenix.

I actually know all about them my friend. I went against JJ in the last redraft playoffs and had Harden so I typed this up:

Here’s something you might not know. Any questions you may have about Harden’s playoff performance should be offset by the fact that no top 30 player in the NBA has been as bad as Joe Johnson in the playoffs. Every year. Even with his sub-par Finals, Harden still averaged 17ppg on 61%TS% for the playoffs. Johnson meanwhile had an abysmal 11.7 PER / 46%TS and a NEGATIVE – 0.2 offensive win shares. For his career, Johnson has a sub 50% TS% and .037 win shares per 48.

:)

Gram
11-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Joe Johnson.

chrisf975
11-13-2012, 10:36 PM
Looks like Joe Johnson remembered he was an all star 2nite.

xxplayerxx23
11-13-2012, 10:57 PM
Give me a break.

JJ is suppose to go far in the playoffs w horford, and the most inconsistent overrated player ever Josh smith? O, don't forget "I have no legs and no jumper" mike bibby.

All those players JJ had on his Atlanta squad, where they at? What are they doing now? Not a damn thing.

Um fact of the matter is he had plenty of talent. Smith is overrated I agree but your telling me he sucks? Please. Horford is a stud and like I said an up coming Teague, who played well the last two years. He had plenty of talent, no excuse. and Um this is there first year without him, so far decent nothing speical.

VinceCarter
11-13-2012, 11:15 PM
Great game by Joe tonight! Hopefully he can find his place on this team and keep it up!

JerseysFinest
11-13-2012, 11:19 PM
#JOEISBACK

Hopefully he can sustain this level of play.

jmoney85
11-13-2012, 11:32 PM
he took a crap on dion waiters tonight lol

KnickaBocka.44
11-13-2012, 11:47 PM
Joe Johnson reads PSD and was pissed at Hawkeye.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2012, 02:07 AM
The logic isn't flawed at all, you can't compare a 3rd option bench player effeciency stats on a championship caliber team to a #1 option on a scrub atlanta team.

If thts the case that I guess I should judge harden stats purely on what he did against the heat in the championship. See what i did there?

No, you can compare anyone actually. Its not just about stats dude. Johnson wasn't even his teams best player the last 2 years, he was their 3rd option (remind of you Harden?), yet, he floundered in the playoffs. You are overrating Joe, and underrating Josh, and Horford badly here.

In your rational world, since Manu came off the bench, and was not his teams best player, Joe must be superior, right? Don't duck that question again.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2012, 02:08 AM
I actually know all about them my friend. I went against JJ in the last redraft playoffs and had Harden so I typed this up:

Here’s something you might not know. Any questions you may have about Harden’s playoff performance should be offset by the fact that no top 30 player in the NBA has been as bad as Joe Johnson in the playoffs. Every year. Even with his sub-par Finals, Harden still averaged 17ppg on 61%TS% for the playoffs. Johnson meanwhile had an abysmal 11.7 PER / 46%TS and a NEGATIVE – 0.2 offensive win shares. For his career, Johnson has a sub 50% TS% and .037 win shares per 48.

:)

Then we agree. Harden>JJ every day of the week.

Hawkeye15
11-14-2012, 02:10 AM
Joe Johnson reads PSD and was pissed at Hawkeye.

hahahaha. I would actually love to get credit for some player being motivated to crush it. That would make my year.

"Well, I was struggling, then I found pro sports daily, and this dude Hawkeye was on there just bashing me, so I said, "I will show him!""

Chill_Will_24
11-14-2012, 02:47 AM
hahahaha. I would actually love to get credit for some player being motivated to crush it. That would make my year.

"Well, I was struggling, then I found pro sports daily, and this dude Hawkeye was on there just bashing me, so I said, "I will show him!""

:pray: Please Hawk bash the entire Nets roster

jmoney85
11-14-2012, 02:51 AM
He shot 5-17 in Game 7 of that series.... the Hawks got blown out by 34.

The only player who made a name for himself in that series was Jeff Teague. Joe played well in Games 1 and 4, but he didn't even crack 20pts in the other 4 games (all losses).

team gets blown out by 34... how could that be one players fault? lol

Hawkeye15
11-14-2012, 04:02 AM
:pray: Please Hawk bash the entire Nets roster

Why would I ever do that?

Baller1
11-14-2012, 04:15 AM
hahahaha. I would actually love to get credit for some player being motivated to crush it. That would make my year.

"Well, I was struggling, then I found pro sports daily, and this dude Hawkeye was on there just bashing me, so I said, "I will show him!""

Haha, no kidding. That'd be awesome.