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View Full Version : Are player "labels" quantified more by stats or direct observation?



Ebbs
11-11-2012, 04:06 PM
I guess specifically lets talk PSD labels and why how they are what they are.

Andray Blatche is a chucker. Is that because in a game you've seen him take poor shot selections? Is it because he takes to many shots per a contest? Is it because of his low field goal %?

Kobe Bryant is selfish. Is there a certain number of assists that would make him not a chucker? Or is it formed solely on what you've watched with your own eyes.

Tony Allen is an elite defender. If he allowed a high PPP via synergy would you still believe that?

I guess put forth what you think statistically earns a label or if it doesn't why not?

Chavacano
11-11-2012, 04:11 PM
So impressed that you decided to make a thread. Clippersfan86 inspired you. :laugh2:

b@llhog24
11-11-2012, 04:25 PM
I try to use as much of my own opinion as I can.

Ebbs
11-11-2012, 04:28 PM
So impressed that you decided to make a thread. Clippersfan86 inspired you. :laugh2:

Maybe that's where I got the idea. Although not sure I thought of it til now

asandhu23
11-11-2012, 04:35 PM
its because of the media.

KnicksorBust
11-11-2012, 04:38 PM
The vast majority of the time the labels are supported by both. Id be more interested in a label buster thread... like the blake thread

Ebbs
11-11-2012, 04:53 PM
The vast majority of the time the labels are supported by both. Id be more interested in a label buster thread... like the blake thread

Ok so let's say he's got a terrible defended label. If you saw that synergy stat but hadn't seem him play once this season would that be enough to change your opinion on him?

KnicksorBust
11-11-2012, 05:03 PM
The vast majority of the time the labels are supported by both. Id be more interested in a label buster thread... like the blake thread

Ok so let's say he's got a terrible defended label. If you saw that synergy stat but hadn't seem him play once this season would that be enough to change your opinion on him?

THAT is a great question. My most honest response is that I would trust my prior knowledge first over the numbers.

Blitzbolt
11-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Well in Tony Allen case he HELPS alot sometimes leaving his guy open.He gives alot of PPP but is always top 5 in steals and Force turnovers because he gambles alot.

JasonJohnHorn
11-11-2012, 06:04 PM
I'd say both. Barbosa, for example, loves to shoot... I've seen enough of him. It doesn't look like he shoots that much if you look at his averages, and his FG% is ok, but man, when I watch him play, when he gets the ball, it's like the last thing he wants to do with it is pass it to somebody else... lol

Kobe... he's been a chucker his entire career. He doesn't take as many circus shots as he used to, but he still shoots too much. It's not about how many assists he gets, because he certainly gets more than the average shooting guard.

But generally, it's a combination of stats and in-game observations.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-11-2012, 06:11 PM
I'd say both. Barbosa, for example, loves to shoot... I've seen enough of him. It doesn't look like he shoots that much if you look at his averages, and his FG% is ok, but man, when I watch him play, when he gets the ball, it's like the last thing he wants to do with it is pass it to somebody else... lol

Kobe... he's been a chucker his entire career. He doesn't take as many circus shots as he used to, but he still shoots too much. It's not about how many assists he gets, because he certainly gets more than the average shooting guard.

But generally, it's a combination of stats and in-game observations.

I knew you'd someway somehow use Kobe as an example as you do in every thread. :pity:

PatsSoxKnicks
11-11-2012, 06:17 PM
Ok so let's say he's got a terrible defended label. If you saw that synergy stat but hadn't seem him play once this season would that be enough to change your opinion on him?


THAT is a great question. My most honest response is that I would trust my prior knowledge first over the numbers.

At this point in the season, I would agree with KoB but if we're 40 games in and I see that stat among other stats that supported him as a good defender, I may be willing to change my mind. But thats only if all the defensive stats were in agreement. But before doing that, I'd probably tune into a couple games myself before deciding. Thats assuming that for whatever reason I hadn't watched a Clippers game yet, which already isn't true since I've seen them play.

topdog
11-11-2012, 06:29 PM
Technically, "quantified" is related to numbers and therefore only makes sense in terms of stats. Putting being a smartass aside, I think it's necessary to both watch the player play on multiple occasions and look at the stats. In a team game, you must put a player into context.

da ThRONe
11-11-2012, 06:34 PM
I would say the media to be honest. It's hard to take in every game of every player. So I think most people just rely heavily on the words of the so called experts.

Lakerhead4ever
11-11-2012, 06:44 PM
On psd, players are judged by STRICT numbers.

By people who have actually played in the nba judge by what they see.

Chacarron
11-11-2012, 06:44 PM
NBA Re-drafts....

topdog
11-11-2012, 06:55 PM
NBA Re-drafts....

:laugh2:

You have to watch some ESPN First Take to prepare for those.

Ebbs
11-12-2012, 05:05 PM
Yea NBA redrafts on PSD sure as hell do stick to the labels

Chronz
11-12-2012, 06:50 PM
I would need a good reason to ignore the stats. For example, OJ Mayo can put up decent per game numbers and on any night look like a budding all-star, but a guy like Harden does his job in a silently efficient manner that really sticks out statistically but not so much to a casual observer

Ebbs
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
I would need a good reason to ignore the stats. For example, OJ Mayo can put up decent per game numbers and on any night look like a budding all-star, but a guy like Harden does his job in a silently efficient manner that really sticks out statistically but not so much to a casual observer

Mayo has been more efficient thus far though?

LongWayFromHome
11-13-2012, 01:20 AM
its because of the media.

this x8,000,000

LongWayFromHome
11-13-2012, 01:22 AM
I would need a good reason to ignore the stats. For example, OJ Mayo can put up decent per game numbers and on any night look like a budding all-star, but a guy like Harden does his job in a silently efficient manner that really sticks out statistically but not so much to a casual observer

I disagree with your examples. I always loved James Harden from watching him and did not care about his stats. You could just tell he had IT from watching him.

asandhu23
11-13-2012, 01:30 AM
On psd, players are judged by STRICT numbers.

By people who have actually played in the nba judge by what they see.

uh... no. people here just players mostly by what media's labels and then misinterpreted stats which support those labels.

The_Jamal
11-13-2012, 01:44 AM
Ok so let's say he's got a terrible defended label. If you saw that synergy stat but hadn't seem him play once this season would that be enough to change your opinion on him?

I'd certainly go watch a few more Clipper games and see if he's actually an improved defender or not. The problem with any sort of stat is no one has a large sample size accumulated yet. So while BG is #1 on defensive PPP currently, we don't know if it's actual defensive improvement or some other factor.

3RDASYSTEM
11-19-2012, 06:51 PM
I would need a good reason to ignore the stats. For example, OJ Mayo can put up decent per game numbers and on any night look like a budding all-star, but a guy like Harden does his job in a silently efficient manner that really sticks out statistically but not so much to a casual observer


Now i truly understand why we dont see eye to eye with the 'eye' test

just cut it out with the 'efficient' bs

no player past or present gives a **** about that manmadescience ****

and dont tell me that NBA hires these people cause i already said they hire rogue refs and other bs also

when i watched MAYO/HARDEN, i said MAYO could play but was much more hype coming out of USC and HARDEN reminded me of a DUNCAN guard type(tho not on his level individuaally), not flashy or much fun to watch but gets the job done....rather its efficient or not, he gets it done...DUNCAN is/was whole nother level of it

so for me it came down to watching/playing the game
stats did nothing for me


can they both ball? of course, whos better? looking at PER sure in the hell wont help me solve it,never have never will

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-19-2012, 06:55 PM
These Kobe FIENS are so delusional! :facepalm:

Rivera
11-19-2012, 06:55 PM
NBA Re-drafts....

:laugh:

Chronz
11-19-2012, 07:17 PM
Now i truly understand why we dont see eye to eye with the 'eye' test

just cut it out with the 'efficient' bs

no player past or present gives a **** about that manmadescience ****

and dont tell me that NBA hires these people cause i already said they hire rogue refs and other bs also

when i watched MAYO/HARDEN, i said MAYO could play but was much more hype coming out of USC and HARDEN reminded me of a DUNCAN guard type(tho not on his level individuaally), not flashy or much fun to watch but gets the job done....rather its efficient or not, he gets it done...DUNCAN is/was whole nother level of it

so for me it came down to watching/playing the game
stats did nothing for me


can they both ball? of course, whos better? looking at PER sure in the hell wont help me solve it,never have never will
Thats because you dont understand the game of basketball.