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View Full Version : 2012 Awards Thread (MVP, Cy Young, ROY, etc)



Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 04:43 PM
Discuss each award in this thread.

DodgerB24
11-08-2012, 05:11 PM
PSD is going to explode when the AL MVP is announced.

ATL#22
11-08-2012, 05:19 PM
Im trying to ignore the AL mvp because I know whats coming

Fly
11-08-2012, 06:18 PM
I think Kershaw should win the NL CY.

Mr. LA
11-08-2012, 06:27 PM
Verlander
Cabrera
Kershaw
Posey

not that hard


but voters might not see it this way

metswon69
11-08-2012, 06:34 PM
Verlander
Cabrera
Kershaw
Posey

not that hard


but voters might not see it this way

It's not that easy.

Price has a legitimate argument for the Cy Young in the AL so does Dickey in the NL (as does Kimbrel and Gio)

Trout should be the MVP in the AL but the voters will most likely fall in love with Miggy's triple crown and you could even make a case for Braun in the NL too but the steroid allegations from last year will certainly hurt his case this year.

Fly
11-08-2012, 06:39 PM
Verlander
Cabrera
Kershaw
Posey

not that hard


but voters might not see it this way

Please, oh please give me a legitimate argument for Cabrera over Trout.

Rush
11-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Oh nooo...here we go again :facepalm:

odiz
11-08-2012, 06:52 PM
Please, oh please give me a legitimate argument for Cabrera over Trout.

He won the 3 helmet!!!!!@@#(*&#

Fly
11-08-2012, 06:59 PM
Oh nooo...here we go again :facepalm:

You're right, it was probably stupid of me to bring it up :laugh2:

Oh wellz.

Rush
11-08-2012, 07:04 PM
Well, in the least it should be an entertaining night.

metswon69
11-08-2012, 07:05 PM
You're right, it was probably stupid of me to bring it up :laugh2:

Oh wellz.

We'll argue about it at some point especially when the real results come out.

MetsFanatic19
11-08-2012, 08:04 PM
Just posted a thread about the SS winners, sorry if it's supposed to go here.

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 08:35 PM
Just posted a thread about the SS winners, sorry if it's supposed to go here.

Naw, the actual winners deserve their own thread

SpecialFNK
11-08-2012, 09:00 PM
Cabrera gets all this hype because he won the triple crown, but it's not the 1900's anymore, HR and more so RBI are overrated. look at how well HR did for Jose Bautista.
unfortunately there are going to be many old timers voting for the MVP that put more value in something like the triple crown.
Trout had no chance at the triple crown, not because he doesn't have power, but because he bats leadoff. his numbers are just crazy ridiculous, he should be the MVP.

More-Than-Most
11-08-2012, 09:12 PM
Over/Under

3 Bans

6 Infractions

4 pages of trolling

This thread will be glorious when they announce some of these awards

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 09:16 PM
Over/Under

3 Bans

6 Infractions

4 pages of trolling

This thread will be glorious when they announce some of these awards

For me personally, i have said most of my peace on the Cabrera/Trout debate.

What I'll find funny and will be posting to make fun of, are the voters when they release their reasonings for voting for Cabrera.


Which will be two things.

1. Triple Crown
2. His team made the playoffs


Both of which are logically hilarious and take zero critical thinking to come up with. If this is the level of thought a voter puts into their vote, then obviously they shouldn't be voting.

Tkais9009
11-08-2012, 09:56 PM
I dont really care who wins anymore haha

the only reason i hope Miggy wins is to read the end of the world posts by people haha

lol, please
11-08-2012, 10:21 PM
For me personally, i have said most of my peace on the Cabrera/Trout debate.

What I'll find funny and will be posting to make fun of, are the voters when they release their reasonings for voting for Cabrera.


Which will be two things.

1. Triple Crown
2. His team made the playoffs


Both of which are logically hilarious and take zero critical thinking to come up with. If this is the level of thought a voter puts into their vote, then obviously they shouldn't be voting.
At least it's more logical than the reasons for voting for presidential candidates. That's a real joke. At least this is semi-debatable. If you think this is laughable, American politics would give you a heart attack.

At least in this case, voters at least think they are voting for the right reasons, and know what they are voting for, which is much more than what you can say about the general voting population and the electoral college respectively.

I know it's off topic, but just a comparison to show you how it's not that ridiculous, and it could be worse.

metswon69
11-08-2012, 10:45 PM
At least it's more logical than the reasons for voting for presidential candidates. That's a real joke. At least this is semi-debatable. If you think this is laughable, American politics would give you a heart attack.

At least in this case, voters at least think they are voting for the right reasons, and know what they are voting for, which is much more than what you can say about the general voting population and the electoral college respectively.

I know it's off topic, but just a comparison to show you how it's not that ridiculous, and it could be worse.

There are plenty of people educated in both areas.

Even with all the so called "baseball experts" there are plenty of times they make the wrong decision, like Adam Jones winning the GG over Mike Trout or Chase Headley over David Wright.

They have the same access to the information we do and it doesn't seem to help them.

lol, please
11-08-2012, 10:52 PM
There are plenty of people educated in both areas.

Even with all the so called "baseball experts" there are plenty of times they make the wrong decision, like Adam Jones winning the GG over Mike Trout or Chase Headley over David Wright.

They have the same access to the information we do and it doesn't seem to help them.

Well said. Now if only the experts can be respected for making the "wrong decision", even though wrong is an opinion in this case, instead of being belittled and insulted by random posters on a sports forum that probably know significantly less or are equally mistaken or biased. That would be something. Respecting opinions that differ from one's own. What a concept this is, one I believe PSD should embrace.

keymax
11-08-2012, 11:12 PM
There are plenty of people educated in both areas.

Even with all the so called "baseball experts" there are plenty of times they make the wrong decision, like Adam Jones winning the GG over Mike Trout or Chase Headley over David Wright.

They have the same access to the information we do and it doesn't seem to help them.

I wouldn't call Headley over Wright a mistake, Even as a closet Mets fan. UZR numbers are far too volatile to take them as a true indication of defensive talent. I've watched a lot of both of them and I think they are pretty close. I also remember people calling Wright a bad defender the last couple of years because of UZR(which is almost laughable). People need to trust their eyes more (without the homer glasses of course ;) )
Wright has the better arm but other than that...

metswon69
11-08-2012, 11:54 PM
I wouldn't call Headley over Wright a mistake, Even as a closet Mets fan. UZR numbers are far too volatile to take them as a true indication of defensive talent. I've watched a lot of both of them and I think they are pretty close. I also remember people calling Wright a bad defender the last couple of years because of UZR(which is almost laughable). People need to trust their eyes more (without the homer glasses of course ;) )
Wright has the better arm but other than that...

Wright had 16 DRS too, whereas Headley was -3.

I think that's significant enough to have favored Wright (considering one is qualified as GG caliber and the other is below average)

I know some of that can be manipulated based on positioning and other variables but Wright deserved the GG this year.

Wright isn't a bad defender, he had some defensive problems in 2011 but he did play over a month with broken vertebrae in his back. I think Ike Davis helps him out there certainly but i think Wright takes a lot of crap defensively undeservedly.

Rush
11-09-2012, 12:34 AM
Well said. Now if only the experts can be respected for making the "wrong decision", even though wrong is an opinion in this case, instead of being belittled and insulted by random posters on a sports forum that probably know significantly less or are equally mistaken or biased. That would be something. Respecting opinions that differ from one's own. What a concept this is, one I believe PSD should embrace.

These are supposed to be "experts", and while they are human and prone to mistakes, the mistake I anticipate they will make is pretty hard to do. It has to take a group of people who are very outdated with their views and too stubborn to use new information that only enhances their views on a player to make that incorrect choice. Ultimately, it's a pretty easy choice. They're supposed to be more knowledgable than us "random posters on a sports forum", but yet most likely will make the wrong choice on the most important award in baseball that could have a profound affect on that player's life. So why not criticize them? It is an opinion by the voters, but it would be a stupid opinion in this case.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 01:14 AM
Wright had 16 DRS too, whereas Headley was -3.

I think that's significant enough to have favored Wright (considering one is qualified as GG caliber and the other is below average)

I know some of that can be manipulated based on positioning and other variables but Wright deserved the GG this year.

Wright isn't a bad defender, he had some defensive problems last year but he did play over a month with broken vertebrae in his back. I think Ike Davis helps him out there certainly but i think Wright takes a lot of crap defensively undeservedly.

Not arguing for or against Headley here....but.


I did manage to watch several Headley games this year (being a west coast team, I would watch a lot of Padres games after the Cards would go to bed).

Headley was very sound defensively in the games I watched. Wright clearly has more range. But he was sound.

UZR and DRS, I will always stand by those over my own perceptions. But my perceptions also tell me that Headley was average to slightly better than average defensively.

Then again, I didn't watch every game, and I can't keep, with an open mind, his ability to get to balls and throw guys out comparatively to the rest of the league.

But when I saw his defensive metrics slightly in the negative, I was a little surprised, he seems better than his numbers would indicate.


Wright meanwhile, very good this year. Def better than he was in years past too. A ton more range it seemed.

keymax
11-09-2012, 01:26 AM
Wright meanwhile, very good this year. Def better than he was in years past too. A ton more range it seemed.

This is one of my main pet peeves with defensive metrics. Range isn't something you can improve or get better at through work. Either you have it or not. It declines with age and injuries, but you can't lose and add range on a yearly basis when you're healthy. And if I'm not mistaken Wright was healthy(at least regarding to injuries thatcould hinder his work in the field) outside of 2011..

THINKBLUE15
11-09-2012, 01:38 AM
Kershaw is just getting dumped on by MLB Network...idiots like Billy Ripkin and Harold Reynolds.

He's the first pitcher since Johnson to win back to back ERA titles in MLB if I heard correctly, was first in K%, WHIP, ERA, second in Opp BA, 1 behind in Ks, 2nd in innings pitched despite battling a borderline surgery hip injury and foot issue...Not sure what he has to do to earn more respect from these guys. It is really hard to watch these shows and hearing, "Well, yeah, Kershaw had a good year, but you see though..only 14 wins..that'll hurt him. My choice is Gio..You talk about a guy who wasn't even the ace of his own staff going out there down the stretch...wow...he's got my vote. Either him or Dicky of course. Also, I was surprised to not see Cueto make this list.."

Kershaw barely even exists to these guys and he is the best pitcher.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 01:42 AM
Kershaw is just getting dumped on by MLB Network...idiots like Billy Ripkin and Harold Reynolds.

He's the first pitcher since Johnson to win back to back ERA titles in MLB if I heard correctly, was first in K%, WHIP, ERA, second in Opp BA, 1 behind in Ks, 2nd in innings pitched despite battling a borderline surgery hip injury and foot issue...Not sure what he has to do to earn more respect from these guys. It is really hard to watch these shows and hearing, "Well, yeah, Kershaw had a good year, but you see though..only 14 wins..that'll hurt him. My choice is Gio..You talk about a guy who wasn't even the ace of his own staff going out there down the stretch...wow...he's got my vote. Either him or Dicky of course. Also, I was surprised to not see Cueto make this list.."

Kershaw barely even exists to these guys and he is the best pitcher.

Former players make the worst 'analysts' (and I am using that word very loosely). I have no idea how someone can make a career out of a sport and know so little about it.

Rush
11-09-2012, 01:42 AM
It's seriously so stupid how they use wins as their reasoning. :facepalm: They've been in the game for a good amount of time, but can't get how wins are meaningless when comparing pitchers.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 01:44 AM
This is one of my main pet peeves with defensive metrics. Range isn't something you can improve or get better at through work. Either you have it or not. It declines with age and injuries, but you can't lose and add range on a yearly basis when you're healthy. And if I'm not mistaken Wright was healthy(at least regarding to injuries thatcould hinder his work in the field) outside of 2011..

footwork and positioning.

He was also more agile, he seemed more 'loose'.


He got to balls I don't recall seeing him get to in years past.

Again, this is my perception. But if you have say, a nagging back injury (not necessarily reported), your reaction time, or ability to move in small, quick motions could be impacted.

He also could have simply been playing deeper. There are a lot of factors that could attribute to an increase in range.


I'm saying this based on my perception, and the numbers do support it.

metswon69
11-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Not arguing for or against Headley here....but.


I did manage to watch several Headley games this year (being a west coast team, I would watch a lot of Padres games after the Cards would go to bed).

Headley was very sound defensively in the games I watched. Wright clearly has more range. But he was sound.

UZR and DRS, I will always stand by those over my own perceptions. But my perceptions also tell me that Headley was average to slightly better than average defensively.

Then again, I didn't watch every game, and I can't keep, with an open mind, his ability to get to balls and throw guys out comparatively to the rest of the league.

But when I saw his defensive metrics slightly in the negative, I was a little surprised, he seems better than his numbers would indicate.


Wright meanwhile, very good this year. Def better than he was in years past too. A ton more range it seemed.

I can only tell you my perspective from what i saw of David Wright.

Although obviously it's hard to be objective, he was much better on eye test alone than he was in 2007 and 2008 when he won the GG in successive years.

Wright's biggest problem has always been his arm strength and admittedly Ike Davis has saved him on more than a few occasions but i think those UZR/DRS numbers where pretty accurate when you got to see Wright's body of work defensively this year.

I can understand Headley was better than the numbers indicated and maybe they were more equal than given credit for.

It's not a major injustice, i know the GG system is flawed (considering some of the picks in recent years) but it frustrates me when any guy is dicked out of an award he probably deserves.

I feel the same way about Trout in regards to the GG and will if he loses the MVP too.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 01:52 AM
Understood.


fwiw, I voted for Wright in the PSD vote :)

Krush
11-09-2012, 02:40 AM
NL
MVP= Posey- His team went to the playoffs, and if Kemp didn't win the MVP last year, then Braun shouldn't win it this year.
CY= Kershaw- Best pitcher in NL period.
ROY= Miley- Harper is overrated for now.

AL
MVP= Cabrera- He won the triple crown, and he's due.
CY= Verlander- Best pitcher in AL period.
ROY= Trout- Duh!

metswon69
11-09-2012, 02:49 AM
NL
MVP= Posey- His team went to the playoffs, and if Kemp didn't win the MVP last year, then Braun shouldn't win it this year.
CY= Kershaw- Best pitcher in NL period.
ROY= Miley- Harper is overrated for now.

AL
MVP= Cabrera- He won the triple crown, and he's due.
CY= Verlander- Best pitcher in AL period.
ROY= Trout- Duh!

And the Triple Crown argument begins again :laugh2:

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 02:51 AM
The 'he's due' part also makes me scratch my head


It's a single season award, not a career achievement award

YouCan'tBeatLA
11-09-2012, 02:54 AM
Kershaw is the best pitcher in the MLB overall, so it will be a travesty if he doesn't win the NL Cy Young. I would be less mad if Dickey won over Kershaw instead of Gio winning over him, though. Gio isn't even the best pitcher on his team.

LASportsFan1996
11-09-2012, 03:28 AM
Kershaw is the best pitcher in the MLB overall, so it will be a travesty if he doesn't win the NL Cy Young. I would be less mad if Dickey won over Kershaw instead of Gio winning over him, though. Gio isn't even the best pitcher on his team.

Agreed on all fronts.. But I honestly believe Dickey will win the Cy Young, if Gio wins ***** gonna get real

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 03:33 AM
Agreed on all fronts.. But I honestly believe Dickey will win the Cy Young, if Gio wins ***** gonna get real

I'm fairly certain Kershaw will actually win based on the voters history.


I think he is more inclined to win then Dickey.


Dickey certainly COULD, but I don't think he will, and Gio def won't win it.

LASportsFan1996
11-09-2012, 03:48 AM
Back to back Cy Young's for Kershaw?! :win::win:

This guy is only 24 and off to an amazing start and a couple years away from his "prime"

Leandres_sf
11-09-2012, 03:51 AM
PSD is gonna explode if Cabrera wins the MVP.

sexicano31
11-09-2012, 11:03 AM
PSD is gonna explode if Cabrera wins the MVP.

When

Yankee Clipper
11-09-2012, 12:23 PM
NL
MVP= Posey- His team went to the playoffs, and if Kemp didn't win the MVP last year, then Braun shouldn't win it this year.
CY= Kershaw- Best pitcher in NL period.
ROY= Miley- Harper is overrated for now.

AL
MVP= Cabrera- He won the triple crown, and he's due.
CY= Verlander- Best pitcher in AL period.
ROY= Trout- Duh!

What does that even mean?

Rush
11-09-2012, 12:38 PM
NL
MVP= Posey- His team went to the playoffs, and if Kemp didn't win the MVP last year, then Braun shouldn't win it this year.
CY= Kershaw- Best pitcher in NL period.
ROY= Miley- Harper is overrated for now.

AL
MVP= Cabrera- He won the triple crown, and he's due.
CY= Verlander- Best pitcher in AL period.
ROY= Trout- Duh!

Harper still deserves it. I think Miley was on his way to winning it before September started. Then he pitched poorly and Harper exploded. In my mind I think that's what swings the vote in Harper's favor.

As for Cabrera, just because he won the Triple Crown that doesn't mean he's the Most Valuable Player. Trout is easily more valuable than him. Just because someone's "due" doesn't mean they should get it either. Trout was more valuable. Trout's valuable in his hitting, defense, and base running. Cabrera is valuable in just his hitting.

Greet
11-09-2012, 12:59 PM
Not trying to get into a heated argument but, what are the statistical chances of a person winning the triple crown?

Rush
11-09-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm not sure.

DodgerB24
11-09-2012, 01:29 PM
I'm fairly certain Kershaw will actually win based on the voters history.


I think he is more inclined to win then Dickey.


Dickey certainly COULD, but I don't think he will, and Gio def won't win it.

I don't know. I think right now Dickey will win over Kershaw by a very small margian.

I think his 20 wins and story will get him some votes with the older voters.

Krush
11-09-2012, 02:24 PM
I definitely think the 20 wins helps Dickey because he played on a bad team, but statistically Kershaw is the best pitcher in the league.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Not trying to get into a heated argument but, what are the statistical chances of a person winning the triple crown?

About 21% of the time it should happen (includes pitchers), with about 15% of the time by position players.


Cabrera doing this isn't really all that unique in baseball history. It's simply unique because it hasn't been done in so long. If you look back through the last 35 years, it should have been done several times, it just wasn't.


As far as a starter who plays full time accomplishing it? There is about a .7% chance in any given season that any given player will accomplish it.

the odds vary based on the player, the spot in the lineup, and if you are referring to the frequency in baseball history vs the chances it happens again?


There is about a 1 in 20 chance a position player does it again next season. It's just odd that it hasn't been done in 35 years.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 02:27 PM
Back to back Cy Young's for Kershaw?! :win::win:

This guy is only 24 and off to an amazing start and a couple years away from his "prime"

Will he have a similar fate to Lincecum/Koufax after winning? or of Roger Clemens?

ciaban
11-09-2012, 02:30 PM
going off statistics, ryan braun should really be the MVP, Kershaw should be CY Young,

ciaban
11-09-2012, 02:33 PM
Will he have a similar fate to Lincecum/Koufax after winning? or of Roger Clemens?

by Koufax do you mean blowing out his elbow and Tommy John not existing?
and by lincecum do you mean loose 5-6MPH off his fast ball and loosing any accuracy he once had, and shrinking 6 inches?

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 02:56 PM
by Koufax do you mean blowing out his elbow and Tommy John not existing?
and by lincecum do you mean loose 5-6MPH off his fast ball and loosing any accuracy he once had, and shrinking 6 inches?

I just mean, is this the start to a hall of fame caliber, dominating career, or will he fade?

ShockerArt
11-09-2012, 03:11 PM
About 21% of the time it should happen (includes pitchers), with about 15% of the time by position players.


Cabrera doing this isn't really all that unique in baseball history. It's simply unique because it hasn't been done in so long. If you look back through the last 35 years, it should have been done several times, it just wasn't.


As far as a starter who plays full time accomplishing it? There is about a .7% chance in any given season that any given player will accomplish it.

the odds vary based on the player, the spot in the lineup, and if you are referring to the frequency in baseball history vs the chances it happens again?


There is about a 1 in 20 chance a position player does it again next season. It's just odd that it hasn't been done in 35 years.

It's crazy that Pujols never did it. From '01 to '10 Pujols ranks first in Batting average and 2nd in HRs and RBIs (behind ARod in both categories) in MLB.

Yet, during that span, Pujols only won one batting title, 2 HR titles and 1 RBI title.

If you look at the NL batting champs for those years, though, it takes a really high average to win from '01 to '10. Cabrera's .330 average from this season doesn't win a single NL batting title from '01 to '10, and only wins 7 of the AL batting titles in the last 35 years since Yaz's triple crown in '67 (if my quick count is correct).

2010 (NL) Carlos Gonzalez (COL) .336
2009 (NL) Hanley Ramirez (FLA) .342
2008 (NL) Chipper Jones (ATL) .364
2007 (NL) Matt Holliday (COL) .340
2006 (NL) Freddy Sanchez (PIT) .344
2005 (NL) Derrek Lee (CHC) .335
2004 (NL) Barry Bonds (SFG) .362
2003 (NL) Albert Pujols (STL) .359
2002 (NL) Barry Bonds (SFG) .370 .
2001 (NL) Larry Walker (COL) .350

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 03:15 PM
It's crazy that Pujols never did it. From '01 to '10 Pujols ranks first in Batting average and 2nd in HRs and RBIs (behind ARod in both categories) in MLB.

Yet, during that span, Pujols only won one batting title, 2 HR titles and 1 RBI title.

If you look at the NL batting champs for those years, though, it takes a really high average to win from '01 to '10. Cabrera's .330 average from this season doesn't win a single NL batting title from '01 to '10, and only wins 7 of the AL batting titles in the last 35 years since Yaz's triple crown in '67 (if my quick count is correct).

2010 (NL) Carlos Gonzalez (COL) .336
2009 (NL) Hanley Ramirez (FLA) .342
2008 (NL) Chipper Jones (ATL) .364
2007 (NL) Matt Holliday (COL) .340
2006 (NL) Freddy Sanchez (PIT) .344
2005 (NL) Derrek Lee (CHC) .335
2004 (NL) Barry Bonds (SFG) .362
2003 (NL) Albert Pujols (STL) .359
2002 (NL) Barry Bonds (SFG) .370 .
2001 (NL) Larry Walker (COL) .350

Yup.

And Cabrera's 2012 offensive season wasn't even as good as his 2011.

It's pretty crazy that he won, considering baseball history and the numbers he produced.

Those numbers wouldn't win it most years, and someone like Pujols or Bonds def should have one at least one if not more.

and if he was in the NL this year, he wouldn't have won either.

Would Trout win the MVP if Buster Posey was in the AL? Think about that logic before saying Cabrera deserves the MVP. If another player, was in a different league, regardless of his individual ability to win the award, would it prohibit a separate individual player from winning an individual award over a third individual player?

The argument that Cabrera deserves the MVP because he won the triple crown is about as archaic of thinking as one could exhibit.

You literally have to ignore defense, context, and are rewarding a player for leading in some very specific, unrelated to value statistics that don't tell enough of the story.

RTL
11-09-2012, 04:32 PM
I don't know. I think right now Dickey will win over Kershaw by a very small margian.

I think his 20 wins and story will get him some votes with the older voters.

Exactly. Jon Heyman said he voted for Dickey because of the wins, story and the fact he was barely behind Kershaw in WHIP and ERA. He also stated that Dickey had a better road ERA as reasoning. The story is a lot better than Kershaw's.

KingPosey
11-09-2012, 07:28 PM
Yup.

And Cabrera's 2012 offensive season wasn't even as good as his 2011.

It's pretty crazy that he won, considering baseball history and the numbers he produced.

Those numbers wouldn't win it most years, and someone like Pujols or Bonds def should have one at least one if not more.

and if he was in the NL this year, he wouldn't have won either.

Would Trout win the MVP if Buster Posey was in the AL? Think about that logic before saying Cabrera deserves the MVP. If another player, was in a different league, regardless of his individual ability to win the award, would it prohibit a separate individual player from winning an individual award over a third individual player?

The argument that Cabrera deserves the MVP because he won the triple crown is about as archaic of thinking as one could exhibit.

You literally have to ignore defense, context, and are rewarding a player for leading in some very specific, unrelated to value statistics that don't tell enough of the story.

Bonds would have at least once if he wasnt walked 700 times a season. He lost 5 years of ABs to walks, and right through his Barry prime he had absolutely zero chance for the rbis with all the IBBs and "unintentional-intentional walks" he took.

Cant hit dingers and drive in runs when you go "4 and stride" every other plate appearance....

LASportsFan1996
11-09-2012, 08:29 PM
Will he have a similar fate to Lincecum/Koufax after winning? or of Roger Clemens?

Kershaw will be in the Hall of Fame

DodgerB24
11-09-2012, 08:33 PM
Kershaw will be in the Hall of Fame

Jinx! :(

MetsFanatic19
11-09-2012, 08:36 PM
This Cy Young ballot reminds me a lot of the Presidential Election. The edge right now seems to be slightly towards Dickey, but I think it'll end up being the defending Cy Young winner in Kershaw who takes the cake.

sf-fanatic
11-09-2012, 08:48 PM
Back to back Cy Young's for Kershaw?! :win::win:

This guy is only 24 and off to an amazing start and a couple years away from his "prime"

Careful that's what we said about Lincecum ! :D

THINKBLUE15
11-09-2012, 09:37 PM
We need Kershaw to win the Cy Young or else this past season was even gayer than we thought.

ciaban
11-11-2012, 03:34 AM
I just mean, is this the start to a hall of fame caliber, dominating career, or will he fade?
he is 24, i don't know he will do alright over the next couple years anyway.

Careful that's what we said about Lincecum ! :D

Timmy didn't have the body that Clayton does, or his curve!

d79cheese
11-11-2012, 03:26 PM
he is 24, i don't know he will do alright over the next couple years anyway.


Timmy didn't have the body that Clayton does, or his curve!

Timmy def. doesn't have the body to withstand multiple years of high usage, but Timmy's changeup from 2008-2011 was better then Kershaw's curveball currently is.

Even with Kershaw's protypical body for pitching, I'd be concerned about the hip issue that Kershaw felt for much of the last month or so of the season. Those type of injuries tend to not just be a one time flare up.

jej
11-11-2012, 03:45 PM
he is 24, i don't know he will do alright over the next couple years anyway.


Timmy didn't have the body that Clayton does, or his curve!

Are you an Angel fan, or a Dodger fan?

StriveGreatness
11-11-2012, 05:57 PM
NL
MVP= Posey- His team went to the playoffs, and if Kemp didn't win the MVP last year, then Braun shouldn't win it this year.
CY= Kershaw- Best pitcher in NL period.
ROY= Miley- Harper is overrated for now.

AL
MVP= Cabrera- He won the triple crown, and he's due.
CY= Verlander- Best pitcher in AL period.
ROY= Trout- Duh!

I agree with this

Fly
11-11-2012, 08:36 PM
NL:

MVP - Buster Posey
CY - Clayton Kershaw
ROY - Bryce Harper

AL:
MVP - Mike Trout
CY - Justin Verlander
ROY - Mike Trout

giants73756
11-12-2012, 03:14 AM
Kershaw is awesome. Who knows how long he can be dominant. These young guys often fade early in their careers. He's a great guy and definitely deserved that Roberto Clemente award that he just received. Hopefully he'll be around for a long time. I look forward to duels between him and some of the Giants young starters in the future. I think Kershaw and Bumgarner will have a lot of great games in the future.

Leandres_sf
11-12-2012, 01:29 PM
Posey
Kershaw
Frazier

Trout
Verlander
Trout

DodgerB24
11-12-2012, 01:35 PM
Kershaw is awesome. Who knows how long he can be dominant. These young guys often fade early in their careers. He's a great guy and definitely deserved that Roberto Clemente award that he just received. Hopefully he'll be around for a long time. I look forward to duels between him and some of the Giants young starters in the future. I think Kershaw and Bumgarner will have a lot of great games in the future.

Hopefully.

we thought it was going to be Kershaw vs Lincecum for years to come but...:(

Green_Monster
11-12-2012, 07:27 PM
‏@MLB

BREAKING: @Angels OF @Trouty20 wins @officialBBWAA AL Rookie of the Year Award.


@MLB

FACT: @Trouty20 is youngest winner of AL Rookie of the Year Award and 8th to win AL ROY by unanimous decision.

Congrats to him.

lol, please
11-12-2012, 07:56 PM
Are you an Angel fan, or a Dodger fan?

Depends on who's winning. Right now he's a Giants fan.

lol, please
11-12-2012, 07:56 PM
Congrats to him.

x2. :clap:

Ty Fast
11-12-2012, 08:08 PM
Do you think he should?

metswon69
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Awards thread..

LASportsFan1996
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
No

Jeffy25
11-12-2012, 08:10 PM
No, and we have an awards thread

UPRock
11-12-2012, 08:27 PM
Nope.

LASportsFan1996
11-12-2012, 08:57 PM
WTF is up with the poll lol

Jeffy25
11-12-2012, 09:14 PM
WTF is up with the poll lol

didn't want a poll, but whenever someone creates a thread and I merge it with an existing thread, the poll comes with it and I can't just delete it.

So unless you want the thread to still ask if Kimbrel deserves the Cy Young or not, then I just edited it to say nothing

LASportsFan1996
11-12-2012, 09:17 PM
didn't want a poll, but whenever someone creates a thread and I merge it with an existing thread, the poll comes with it and I can't just delete it.

So unless you want the thread to still ask if Kimbrel deserves the Cy Young or not, then I just edited it to say nothing

No, it's fine lol

RevHokALugie
11-12-2012, 09:36 PM
No

I can't stop watching your signature. Damn what a beasty throw.


Congrates on both, I wonder if Trout can repeat this performance next year.

rkelly7
11-12-2012, 10:25 PM
Please, oh please give me a legitimate argument for Cabrera over Trout.

He won the triple crown

and his team made the playoffs

he doesn't play on the west coast

:)

haha

jej
11-12-2012, 11:39 PM
Trout won a TC too. So did other players. Oh, it's not the one you like? Tough.

The Angels had a better record in much harder division.

The fact that he plays on the WC is the reason he wasn't in the playoffs.

Bucsfan40
11-12-2012, 11:47 PM
How does Harper win the Roy over miley..Miley is contending for a CY of course he won't win but Bryce won't be contending for a MVP and its not even close..Miley was lightyears better than harper this year. Wasn't it Harper who got benched for a few games. Miley never was almost benched...I'm tried of these ESPN writters all it is is a popularity contest smh!! Thoughts??

LASportsFan1996
11-12-2012, 11:50 PM
No

rcs15
11-12-2012, 11:51 PM
Great post. Lots of good facts and stats. You swayed me.

lincecum=future
11-12-2012, 11:52 PM
It's how both players ended the season that swayed the vote IMO

CityofTreez
11-12-2012, 11:52 PM
Grace & Sutton got shafted as well.

metswon69
11-12-2012, 11:54 PM
Troll thread?

Tkais9009
11-12-2012, 11:54 PM
Im fine with him Harp winning it

NatSkinCapWiz
11-12-2012, 11:55 PM
As a Nats fan, I am surprised. But if it came down to who do I want on my future team, I'll take Harper all day.

Bucsfan40
11-12-2012, 11:56 PM
I don't need stats when the guy who won the Roy got benched!!!! Miley got 16 wins with a weak lineup..rookies never do that

Rush
11-12-2012, 11:57 PM
"Miley was lightyears better than harper this year" :laugh:

Wade Miley did not get shafted and he is not in the Cy Young discussion.

Personally I think his September lost it for him. If he remained consistent like he was the whole year then I believe he would be the winner. He had a very good year and it was a close race, but Harper deservedly won.

Bucsfan40
11-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Its called rookie of the year not the "rookie of the last two weeks" or "rookie of the best hot start"

Leandres_sf
11-12-2012, 11:58 PM
This thread is fun.

rcs15
11-12-2012, 11:58 PM
I don't need stats when the guy who won the Roy got benched!!!! Miley got 16 wins with a weak lineup..rookies never do that

Oh damn, 16 wins AND he didn't get benched?

How is this guy not in the MVP race?

Rush
11-13-2012, 12:00 AM
I don't need stats when the guy who won the Roy got benched!!!! Miley got 16 wins with a weak lineup..rookies never do that

Diamondbacks offense rankings in MLB:

wOBA- 9th (.323)

wRC+- 16th (95)

WAR- 8th (26.6)

SLG- 10th (.418)

OBP- 7th (.328)

Runs Scored- 8th (734)

They did not have a weak lineup. You're talking non-sense right there.

Rush
11-13-2012, 12:01 AM
Its called rookie of the year not the "rookie of the last two weeks" or "rookie of the best hot start"

And because Miley stumbled in September and Harper surged, Harper moved passed him. Harper had slightly better overall stats for the year. Too much homerism is getting in the way. It was a close race.

StriveGreatness
11-13-2012, 12:02 AM
I can't stop watching your signature. Damn what a beasty throw.


Congrates on both, I wonder if Trout can repeat this performance next year.

Not really. Didn't hit him in stride. Lee had to adjust to catch that.


He won the triple crown

and his team made the playoffs

he doesn't play on the west coast

:)

haha

:clap:

Greedy22
11-13-2012, 12:15 AM
Rush, you're ruining the entertainment of this thread bringing facts and logic. Please shut up :)

Rush
11-13-2012, 12:16 AM
My apologies. Carry on.

TFleury14
11-13-2012, 12:17 AM
Miley's contending for a CY?

Leandres_sf
11-13-2012, 12:24 AM
My apologies. Carry on.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090720220818/familyguy/images/3/33/Buzz_Killington.jpg

Bucsfan40
11-13-2012, 03:14 AM
Umm yes...miley will get some votes for the CY. They won't be 1st or 2nd place votes but he will get some...Harper will get zero! Harper won't even get 5 place votes

Rush
11-13-2012, 03:25 AM
So that's your lone reason why he should be ROY? Ever think of maybe why Harper may not get any MVP votes? Because Posey, Braun, Molina blew him out of the water? He may get some MVP votes just like Miley may get some Cy Young votes. It doesn't make Miley more deserving over Harper though.

CHRISDODGERS
11-13-2012, 03:27 AM
5 place votes lol :laugh2:

jej
11-13-2012, 10:26 AM
Harper: .352 wOBA, 121 wRC+, 4.9 WAR

Miley: 3.33 ERA, 3.15 FIP, 3.75 xFIP, 4.8 WAR

It's pretty damn close. I wouldn't say he got shafted or anything. It could go either way, but Harper came on strong. It was Wades to lose and he lost it.

nyyfan555
11-13-2012, 10:50 AM
A coworker of mine swore that Bobby V was going to win AL manager of the year. He believed this all the way through August. I laughed so hard because even if the Sox had a good year, there were managers doing much more amazing things with lesser teams.

The truth is that I'm torn over who should win it between Melvin and Showalter. During the season I really thought Ventura should've won it, but that division was theirs to lose and they did. Both the A's and Orioles had two others in their division that were tough, both won 90+ games, both had young talent, and both made the playoffs. I guess if I were forced to choose I would have to say Melvin. The orioles won too many 1 run games to say they were amazing. They were a good team, but I doubt they're going to win 25-30 1-run games every year. The A's were just better overall.

jej
11-13-2012, 10:55 AM
Yeah the Os won an unnatural, record setting number of 1 run games.

If the Mariners would have won that many 1 run games, they win 90, I believe. Something around there.

Jeffy25
11-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Yeah the Os won an unnatural, record setting number of 1 run games.

If the Mariners would have won that many 1 run games, they win 90, I believe. Something around there.

Cardinals would have been 110-55 (3 more 1-run games)

giantspwn
11-13-2012, 08:17 PM
Yeah the Os won an unnatural, record setting number of 1 run games.

If the Mariners would have won that many 1 run games, they win 90, I believe. Something around there.

That's kinda redundant given the Orioles are good and the Mariners are bad.

Some teams are built to win this way. Particularly, teams with good starting pitching, great bullpen and great defense.

Victimize
11-13-2012, 08:23 PM
That's kinda redundant given the Orioles are good and the Mariners are bad.

Some teams are built to win this way. Particularly, teams with good starting pitching, great bullpen and great defense.
Orioles are not a good team. Next year they wont be over 500. I bet they are competing next year for last place with Boston in the East.

Orioles also do not have the bolded items.

jej
11-13-2012, 09:27 PM
That's kinda redundant given the Orioles are good and the Mariners are bad.

Some teams are built to win this way. Particularly, teams with good starting pitching, great bullpen and great defense.

What?

How does that make any sense? If the Mariners were as lucky as them they make the playoffs. If the Orioles were as lucky as the Ms, they finish 4th

srhorioles
11-14-2012, 02:46 PM
Orioles are not a good team. Next year they wont be over 500. I bet they are competing next year for last place with Boston in the East.

Orioles also do not have the bolded items.

Once Machado got called up, they were arguably the best defensive team in the league. Him and McLouth solidified the D.

I get the whole luck thing, but some 1-run games can be won by the manager. And the way Showalter handled the bullpen is the reason I think he should've been COY.

ManningToTyree
11-14-2012, 04:41 PM
when are they announcing the CY Young?

Jeffy25
11-14-2012, 04:49 PM
I think this weekend, or early next week

Zander 77
11-14-2012, 04:51 PM
Or tonight.

ManningToTyree
11-14-2012, 04:53 PM
I'm pretty sure it is tonight, but any idea on when?

Rush
11-14-2012, 04:57 PM
3PM PST on MLB Network.

Jeffy25
11-14-2012, 04:58 PM
well **** bags, there ya go.

Mr. LA
11-14-2012, 05:21 PM
Please voters.... give Kershaw what is rightfully his!!!!!!!!!

Rush
11-14-2012, 05:24 PM
I really hope Kershaw gets it.

Mr. LA
11-14-2012, 05:39 PM
I really hope Kershaw gets it.

why? lol

Rush
11-14-2012, 05:41 PM
Because I'm a big fan of him and think he deserves it.

Jeffy25
11-14-2012, 05:44 PM
I am rooting for Kershaw personally, and Verlander (but I wouldn't be sad if Price sneaks in and gets it, just because I'm a fan)


same cy young winners as last year huh

Mr. LA
11-14-2012, 05:51 PM
Not being a homer ... but .... obviously Kershaw and Verlander are the best pitchers in each league ... and will be for the next 3 years at the very least ... both so dominate ... most people say Verlander is better because he pitches in the AL but I say it's very close

1-800-STFU
11-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Kershaw's gona get dicked

OldStyleCubbies
11-14-2012, 06:35 PM
David Price!!!

utl768
11-14-2012, 06:53 PM
14 wins aint gonna cut it for kershaw

not when dickey has 20 and basically the same other stats

iAugust
11-14-2012, 07:10 PM
and basically the same other stats

Except not. Kershaw was better than Dickey at pretty much everything but innings pitched and walks. And Dickey only averaged to go less than 1 out deeper per start and about 1 less walk every 2 starts.

JobaRules26
11-14-2012, 07:29 PM
David Price is the 2012 AL Cy Young winner

Yankee Clipper
11-14-2012, 07:31 PM
14 wins aint gonna cut it for kershaw

not when dickey has 20 and basically the same other stats

Well let's hope the voters don't continue to use that archaic and useless statistic.

Mr. LA
11-14-2012, 07:52 PM
I am so pissed

ImgoodHarbaughU
11-14-2012, 08:09 PM
Dickey dickey dickey mvd most valuable dick

SportsAndrew25
11-14-2012, 11:27 PM
I am so happy for R.A. Dickey. Considering where this man came from, what he has accomplished is incredible.

ShockerArt
11-14-2012, 11:55 PM
I didn't have a rooting interest in the NL Cy Young, but ... **** those two guys that left Kershaw off their ballots.

natsbats
11-15-2012, 12:57 PM
I know of at least 1 voter who voted Trout 1st on his ballot.

Maybe it will be closer than most had originally thought. Maybe the voters have come around afterall.

Pakman
11-15-2012, 01:06 PM
I know of at least 1 voter who voted Trout 1st on his ballot.

Maybe it will be closer than most had originally thought. Maybe the voters have come around afterall.I hope so cause of cabrera wins it will be a travesty.

Yankee Clipper
11-15-2012, 02:03 PM
I know of at least 1 voter who voted Trout 1st on his ballot.

Maybe it will be closer than most had originally thought. Maybe the voters have come around afterall.

One can only hope.

ugafan
11-15-2012, 02:52 PM
Cabrera will win and even though Trout deserves it, it's not that bad. Cabrera had a great year himself. Pedroia, Rollins and Morneau all were far less deserving MVPs and that's just recent history.

Rush
11-15-2012, 03:41 PM
Cabrera will win and even though Trout deserves it, it's not that bad. Cabrera had a great year himself. Pedroia, Rollins and Morneau all were far less deserving MVPs and that's just recent history.

It really is. The race shouldn't be as close as it is. But Cabrera did have a great year.

younggunn113
11-15-2012, 03:50 PM
Tricky Dick!

Jeffy25
11-15-2012, 04:33 PM
It really is. The race shouldn't be as close as it is. But Cabrera did have a great year.

and yet, it's not as good as his 2011

MetsFanatic19
11-15-2012, 06:40 PM
Anyone who voted 2 over 1 is just idiotic.

albo23
11-15-2012, 07:35 PM
With Cabrera winning the AL MVP, it will only solidify the fact that watching the game and placing value on immeasurable facets of a players game takes precedence over sabermetrics.

I will piss myself once again when I see the angry forumers cry and scream that the members of the media were "wrong," just how the GM's and coaches that dedicate their life to baseball were "wrong" by snubbing Trout for gold glove..... THEY were wrong haha.

Rush
11-15-2012, 09:45 PM
With Cabrera winning the AL MVP, it will only solidify the fact that watching the game and placing value on immeasurable facets of a players game takes precedence over sabermetrics.

I will piss myself once again when I see the angry forumers cry and scream that the members of the media were "wrong," just how the GM's and coaches that dedicate their life to baseball were "wrong" by snubbing Trout for gold glove..... THEY were wrong haha.

Can they not be wrong? It's pretty obvious who the winner should've been.

Jeffy25
11-15-2012, 09:57 PM
With Cabrera winning the AL MVP, it will only solidify the fact that watching the game and placing value on immeasurable facets of a players game takes precedence over sabermetrics.

I will piss myself once again when I see the angry forumers cry and scream that the members of the media were "wrong," just how the GM's and coaches that dedicate their life to baseball were "wrong" by snubbing Trout for gold glove..... THEY were wrong haha.

So we are taking the value of what 28 journalists who went to school to study journalism, and came out and ended up being sports writers opinions of the game of baseball as factual?

The fact that almost all of them cover other sports as part of their full time jobs, we should of course, assume that they can not be incorrect, or have a bias, when they vote. Right?

I for one, will never assume because a group of journalist think something as factual, will I ever continue to presume future facts based on what I am told by writers.

(no offense to all writers out there, but this collective group of writers isn't necessarily the collection of the greatest baseball minds on the planet deciding this).

jej
11-16-2012, 10:30 AM
With Cabrera winning the AL MVP, it will only solidify the fact that watching the game and placing value on immeasurable facets of a players game takes precedence over sabermetrics.

I will piss myself once again when I see the angry forumers cry and scream that the members of the media were "wrong," just how the GM's and coaches that dedicate their life to baseball were "wrong" by snubbing Trout for gold glove..... THEY were wrong haha.

What immeasurable things does Cabrera have that Triut doesn't? I can't think of any. If anything, Trout has better intangibles. And better defense and vase running, which you can see with your eye.

I never understand why people think biased opinion of what people THINK they see is better than factual stats that are based around other factual stats.

jej
11-16-2012, 10:32 AM
They all need to vote fr everything. I have now heard 3-4 voters who, had they had a AL MVP vote, would have voted for Trout. It's not fair to pick and choose what they vote for. Not saying they intentionally pick certain people, but it ends up happening.