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View Full Version : Zack Greinke's asking price is.........



MagicBucsSox
11-08-2012, 01:25 AM
John Perrotto of Baseball Prospectus reports that Zack Greinke is looking for a six-year, $150 million contract in free agency.
As Perrotto reported over the weekend when he floated Josh Hamilton's asking price, he was told what Greinke is seeking by "someone who knows these things." Greinke reportedly turned down an offer of just over $100 million from the Brewers prior to the trade deadline. He might not get $150 million, but the righty will net a deal richer than any other pitcher this winter. The Angels, Dodgers, Rangers and Brewers are expected to be in the running for him.
Lmaoooooooo

Tryptamine
11-08-2012, 01:28 AM
My guess is more along 5/95, which quite frankly is too much for me given his past and given that he seems to just completely give up on certain starts when things don't go his way.

roylikeswaffles
11-08-2012, 01:31 AM
In before move to Dodgers forum

raidersrock99
11-08-2012, 01:33 AM
dodgers in with a 5 year 200 million dollar offer to blow everyone out of contention

More-Than-Most
11-08-2012, 01:36 AM
My guess is more along 5/95, which quite frankly is too much for me given his past and given that he seems to just completely give up on certain starts when things don't go his way.

He would not accept this and will get more.

More-Than-Most
11-08-2012, 01:37 AM
Lol I am so glad we resigned hamels when we did. He would get like 170 mill from the Dodgers

mikekhelxD
11-08-2012, 01:41 AM
Watch, we will reach 450 mil payroll this season :laugh2:

**** it, they will raise the prices of the tickets anyway. Might as well we have real players on the field. I gotta admit, we have one of the cheapest tickets for a big market.

SenorGato
11-08-2012, 01:43 AM
For some reason I just remembered how disappointed I am and was that Cole Hamels didn't let himself hit FA. Id give 6/150 for him in FA...

Greinke is an interesting case and I won't guess on what he'll get. That said, it's going to be much more than 5/95 and most likely deservedly so. I would looooove to see him on the Dodgers behind Kershaw and in front of Beckett and Billingsley. That 1-2 would be unreal, and to back it up with quality after that...

My sleeper team for him is the Blue Jays.

TO Rapz
11-08-2012, 01:48 AM
For some reason I just remembered how disappointed I am and was that Cole Hamels didn't let himself hit FA. Id give 6/150 for him in FA...

Greinke is an interesting case and I won't guess on what he'll get. That said, it's going to be much more than 5/95 and most likely deservedly so. I would looooove to see him on the Dodgers behind Kershaw and in front of Beckett and Billingsley. That 1-2 would be unreal, and to back it up with quality after that...

My sleeper team for him is the Blue Jays.

This would be awesome. I dream of Greinke coming to the Jays, dude's a stud and I would be ecstatic with a Greinke-Morrow 1-2 punch and Romero having a chance to find himself again. We need a TORP pitcher here.

lajoie
11-08-2012, 01:48 AM
Uh, Cole Hamels got 6 yrs/$144 million. Considering he is the only legit ace on the market, why wouldn't he ask for something similar?

theproof
11-08-2012, 01:51 AM
Dodgers

Yankees90.
11-08-2012, 01:53 AM
LMAO :laugh:


You gotta be fkin kidding me! 25 million a year....I REALLY hope there isn't a team that stupid....

Can't believe we live in a time where a GOOD pitcher actually thinks he can command 25 million a year. I wouldn't pay anywhere near 20 million for him.

But hey, it was a good laugh.

theproof
11-08-2012, 01:55 AM
LMAO :laugh:


You gotta be fkin kidding me! 25 million a year....I REALLY hope there isn't a team that stupid....

Can't believe we live in a time where a GOOD pitcher actually thinks he can command 25 million a year. I wouldn't pay anywhere near 20 million for him.

But hey, it was a good laugh.

Dodgers

Illa215
11-08-2012, 01:56 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he deserves close to/as much as Hamels got? And I'm a Phillies fan.

rcs15
11-08-2012, 02:00 AM
Greinke will get that money from one of the LA teams.

YouCan'tBeatLA
11-08-2012, 02:07 AM
Welcome to the Dodgers. :dance:

MagicBucsSox
11-08-2012, 02:18 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he deserves close to/as much as Hamels got? And I'm a Phillies fan.

You must be a bandwagon phillies fan, no real fan would compare a guy with no heart to a World Series winning ace.

SenorGato
11-08-2012, 02:21 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he deserves close to/as much as Hamels got? And I'm a Phillies fan.

I don't, but statistically the argument is certainly there. Makeup is a true difference maker to me and Hamels has that "it" factor I want from the ace in my rotation. That said, Greinke should not be cheap at all and I think he might even quietly live up to that kind of contract if he did get it. Its weird...probably not doing much to explain that.

There's two types of teams I think Greinke would thrive with: someone that already has a bigger ace on the roster to give him that Mussina on the Yankees situation (Dodgers, Angels, Yankees, Tigers) or a currently talented but non-elite franchise that could move up with a series of clever moves (Blue Jays, Braves, A's???, Mariners, Padres).

That said, a pitcher of his quality would be welcome anywhere.

The 6-4-3
11-08-2012, 02:24 AM
Welcome to the Dodgers. :dance:

:cool:

Feels good we can sign players no problem now. And flex our big market muscle.

I do think we should low ball him or raise the price up on the Angels and haves them pay $150

thrice4
11-08-2012, 02:33 AM
You must be a bandwagon phillies fan, no real fan would compare a guy with no heart to a World Series winning ace.

Greinke has no heart?

metswon69
11-08-2012, 02:35 AM
He had anxiety problems in the past but he pitched well in Anaheim where there was pressure on him down the stretch.

I think he'll do well wherever he signs.

DodgerB24
11-08-2012, 02:35 AM
Do not want.

YouCan'tBeatLA
11-08-2012, 02:45 AM
:cool:

Feels good we can sign players no problem now. And flex our big market muscle.

I do think we should low ball him or raise the price up on the Angels and haves them pay $150

Signing him shouldn't be a problem since Greinke being a Dodgers fan himself works to our advantage, obviously.

Illa215
11-08-2012, 02:46 AM
Greinke has no heart?

You'd think he beats puppies for fun the way people talk about him.

Illa215
11-08-2012, 02:47 AM
You must be a bandwagon phillies fan, no real fan would compare a guy with no heart to a World Series winning ace.

Won't even respond to such an goofie claim.

YouCan'tBeatLA
11-08-2012, 02:47 AM
Greinke is an eccentric dude, but that doesn't mean he has no heart. Heard he has anxiety problems, or something like that...

Tkais9009
11-08-2012, 02:51 AM
i'd give him 5/90 to join the Lou

and then he would reject that and i would be fine

The1_Who_knocks
11-08-2012, 02:52 AM
Pretty sure the dodgers will over pay

LASportsFan1996
11-08-2012, 03:07 AM
Welcome to the Dodgers :dance:

mikekhelxD
11-08-2012, 04:16 AM
It's pretty chill at Dodgers Stadium. I don't know about with the pitcher's perspective, but I don't think we put too much pressure on players when they're on the field. Also, it has really been a long time people have talked about the Dodgers when it comes to signing players, whether they are good or overpaid.

Cracka2HI!
11-08-2012, 04:59 AM
That price tag sounds like something the Dodgers can certainly afford. I have to wonder if they might be regretting the Red Sox trade now. Especially Crawford's contract. Hamilton's asking price is something the Dodgers could have afforded too...if they were just a little more patient. They could have signed Grienke and Hamilton and moved Ethier to 1B and had an OF spot open in the future for Puig or Pederson. I really think A-Gone has to return to 35+ HR and 115+ RBI for 2-3 years for that trade to pay off.

Halladay
11-08-2012, 05:06 AM
For some reason I just remembered how disappointed I am and was that Cole Hamels didn't let himself hit FA. Id give 6/150 for him in FA...

Greinke is an interesting case and I won't guess on what he'll get. That said, it's going to be much more than 5/95 and most likely deservedly so. I would looooove to see him on the Dodgers behind Kershaw and in front of Beckett and Billingsley. That 1-2 would be unreal, and to back it up with quality after that...

My sleeper team for him is the Blue Jays.

Not really. The Jays just got Aviles then dumped him 2 weeks later to save what is essentially peanuts. I'm talking about a few million bucks here. We have one of the richest owners on the planet but we have bean counters at the top. The Jays aren't sleepers, they're completely comatose.

Edit-I should also point out that Greinke actually blocked a trade to the Jays a few years ago. Not that he wouldn't pitch here but because of who's in the division. He didn't want to pitch in the microscope that is New York and Boston(anxiety). We'll see if that's changed because if he's looking for that kind of cash, he sure as hell isn't getting it from a small market team.

ciaban
11-08-2012, 05:34 AM
if the brewers do resign him i would be so god damn pissed because they took our minor leaugers and we don't get anything back in terms of draft picks.

abe_froman
11-08-2012, 05:57 AM
dunno why the responses are what they are,thats pretty inline with the going rate for similar tier pitchers(hamels 6/144,cc 5/122) and is pretty close to what he'll get offered

ChrisSabo17
11-08-2012, 05:59 AM
if the brewers do resign him i would be so god damn pissed because they took our minor leaugers and we don't get anything back in terms of draft picks.

I think you are safe. No need to get pissed because they arn't resigning him! Sorry.
What about some sleepers like Boston or Balitmore or someone like that, I don't know I just know how these things work someone swoops in and gets him that is completly off the radar.

HowFit
11-08-2012, 08:49 AM
Greinke will get that money from one of the LA teams.

I surely hope so. Just glad my team isn't that stupid...

Pinstripe pride
11-08-2012, 09:01 AM
yankees will offer him 10 years 200 million

C-ross12
11-08-2012, 09:02 AM
LA dodgers will offer him 5/300 because they can.

sexicano31
11-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he deserves close to/as much as Hamels got? And I'm a Phillies fan.

Agreed

sexicano31
11-08-2012, 10:09 AM
You must be a bandwagon phillies fan, no real fan would compare a guy with no heart to a World Series winning ace.

Lololololololol

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 10:12 AM
They guy has dominant stuff, and we can't really judge him against guys who have actually made it to the playoffs.

SpecialFNK
11-08-2012, 10:18 AM
it's not surprising for any player's asking price to be higher than what he expecting to sign for. it's negotiating. one starts high, the other starts low, they negotiate for something in the middle.
I don't think Greinke deserves Hamels type money, but still upper teens in annual salary. Hamels for each of the last 3 years has had an ERA around 3 or lower.

CQSox305
11-08-2012, 10:32 AM
He deserves to be paid like a very good starter, not like a lights out Ace. Between 16-20 over 6 years is fair.

scottie
11-08-2012, 10:35 AM
Yankee will sign him! Also look for Beckett to find his way back to the AL.

TheIlladelph16
11-08-2012, 10:41 AM
Won't even respond to such an goofie claim.

To answer your question: I don't think he deserves the same money that Hamels got at all. Hamels has only had 1 sub par season since he came up and has won a World Series MVP. I think Greinke has all the talent in the world, but those two pitchers are not comparable in terms of the money each should get.

SenorGato
11-08-2012, 11:07 AM
Yankee will sign him! Also look for Beckett to find his way back to the AL.

They're actually another sleeper in this. They could use the starter, he's hidden behind CC so he can just work, and it allows the rest of the rotation to fall in line (Kuroda, Nova/Hughes, Hughes/Pineda after).

homie564
11-08-2012, 11:36 AM
Wow, I just realized Greinke is very underrated. He won't get 6/150 obviously but 6/110-120 isn't impossible. He's a legitimate ace.

Scully in 2012
11-08-2012, 11:38 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he deserves close to/as much as Hamels got? And I'm a Phillies fan.

Agreed

Agreed. He is a very good pitcher, an ace for many teams but he isn't a top 3 in MLB. He is merely the best FA this year. That said, anything over 20 mil. Per year is to much. A 5x85 contract is is more than fair. Unrealistic, but fair

Pinstripe pride
11-08-2012, 12:03 PM
They're actually another sleeper in this. They could use the starter, he's hidden behind CC so he can just work, and it allows the rest of the rotation to fall in line (Kuroda, Nova/Hughes, Hughes/Pineda after).

he doesn't like big markets, so new york is probally not an option

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 12:09 PM
he doesn't like big markets, so new york is probally not an option

Then what's he doing in LA ;)

Halladay
11-08-2012, 12:11 PM
Then what's he doing in LA ;)

That's where the best psychiatrists in the country are.

Pinstripe pride
11-08-2012, 12:22 PM
Then what's he doing in LA ;)

he was traded there.............

MetsFanatic19
11-08-2012, 12:31 PM
I would give him an average 20MM per year, at most.

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 12:41 PM
he was traded there.............

It's sarcasm, it clearly doesn't matter what size of crowd he pitches in front of.


Considering he has done it his entire life.

scottythegreat1
11-08-2012, 01:05 PM
He COULD possibly get his 6 years and 150 million.

It seems outrageous...BUT when you think about it...the Yankees want him, the Angels want him, the Rangers want him, I wouldnt be surprised if the Red Sox and the Dodgers want him too....there you go, all the big money teams are after him, so I say...LET THE BIDDING WAR BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 01:09 PM
They're actually another sleeper in this. They could use the starter, he's hidden behind CC so he can just work, and it allows the rest of the rotation to fall in line (Kuroda, Nova/Hughes, Hughes/Pineda after).

New York is rumored to only looking to give people 1 year deals. They supposedly won't go 2 years on Hunter because they want to get under the luxury tax.

Pinstripe pride
11-08-2012, 02:02 PM
It's sarcasm, it clearly doesn't matter what size of crowd he pitches in front of.


Considering he has done it his entire life.

he has social anxiety disorder and doesn't liek the bigger markets. LA is nothing compared to NY. he wont be going there anytime soon

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 02:06 PM
he has social anxiety disorder and doesn't liek the bigger markets. LA is nothing compared to NY. he wont be going there anytime soon

I don't think he'll go to New York because they don't have the cap room under the luxury tax to sign him.

But he clearly could handle it if he wanted to.

Scully in 2012
11-08-2012, 02:24 PM
I don't think he'll go to New York because they don't have the cap room under the luxury tax to sign him.

But he clearly could handle it if he wanted to.

I think Jeffy is right on this one. Yes, he had issues earlier in his career but after having a ridiculously awesome season in 2009 he has been under the spotlight and still performed well. At this point he has proven he can handle the pressure.

Farsight
11-08-2012, 02:36 PM
I see him signing a contract around 6 years, 132 million. Thats 22 million a year. I think thats pretty fair considering what other top pitchers received.

TemplarNation
11-08-2012, 02:53 PM
Look at what CC got, Greinke should get at least that plus you add in the fact that Greinke isn't a walking heart attack waiting to happen.

He gon' get paid.

sexicano31
11-08-2012, 02:57 PM
Look at what CC got, Greinke should get at least that plus you add in the fact that Greinke isn't a walking heart attack waiting to happen.

He gon' get paid.

Lololol

DodgerBlue24
11-08-2012, 03:07 PM
That price tag sounds like something the Dodgers can certainly afford. I have to wonder if they might be regretting the Red Sox trade now. Especially Crawford's contract. Hamilton's asking price is something the Dodgers could have afforded too...if they were just a little more patient. They could have signed Grienke and Hamilton and moved Ethier to 1B and had an OF spot open in the future for Puig or Pederson. I really think A-Gone has to return to 35+ HR and 115+ RBI for 2-3 years for that trade to pay off.

Gonzalez could bat right handed and put up better numbers then James Loney... Thats already better... And what makes you think the dodgers still cant afford those guys? Nobody knows how much money they have, or are willing to throw around... They could sign Hamilton then send Ethier to Tampa for Shields... You never know what can happen with the Dodgers owners now...

Pinstripe pride
11-08-2012, 03:08 PM
I don't think he'll go to New York because they don't have the cap room under the luxury tax to sign him.

But he clearly could handle it if he wanted to.

i didnt say he couldn't, i said he doesn't want to

Pinstripe pride
11-08-2012, 03:09 PM
I think Jeffy is right on this one. Yes, he had issues earlier in his career but after having a ridiculously awesome season in 2009 he has been under the spotlight and still performed well. At this point he has proven he can handle the pressure.

i didnt say he couldnt handle new york, i said he doesn't want to

Scully in 2012
11-08-2012, 03:21 PM
I think Jeffy is right on this one. Yes, he had issues earlier in his career but after having a ridiculously awesome season in 2009 he has been under the spotlight and still performed well. At this point he has proven he can handle the pressure.

i didnt say he couldnt handle new york, i said he doesn't want to

I get that. Just making a point that Grienke could very likely handle any atmosphere at this point. If I was a player I would want to play there either. You guys can be brutal!!!

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 03:21 PM
Gonzalez could bat right handed and put up better numbers then James Loney... Thats already better... And what makes you think the dodgers still cant afford those guys? Nobody knows how much money they have, or are willing to throw around... They could sign Hamilton then send Ethier to Tampa for Shields... You never know what can happen with the Dodgers owners now...

There is no chance Andre Ethier is playing for the Tampa Bay Rays in a move for James Shields.


none, unless the dodgers buy the Rays a new stadium in the process.


Also, fwiw.

James Loney career as a dodger: .284/.341/.423
Adrian career as a dodger: .297/.344/.441

I'm sure Adrian will end up being loads better than Loney, and he was better in the tiny sample size, and is clearly a top flight level hitter. But I wanted to point it out.

Gibby23
11-08-2012, 04:07 PM
if the brewers do resign him i would be so god damn pissed because they took our minor leaugers and we don't get anything back in terms of draft picks.

I thought you were a Dodger fan?

Gibby23
11-08-2012, 04:11 PM
Then what's he doing in LA ;)

He's not in LA. Anaheim isn't a big market.;)

Eagles4Lyfe
11-08-2012, 04:27 PM
People are laughing at this??
Seems about right for a top notch ace. He's 29 contract will be up by the time he's 35.
It's not like he's a low end ace.

StryderSox
11-08-2012, 05:54 PM
People are laughing at this??
Seems about right for a top notch ace. He's 29 contract will be up by the time he's 35.
It's not like he's a low end ace.

If you believe he is a top notch ace sure.....

In my opinion guys like Verlander, Weaver and King Felix are top notch aces. By comparison all 3 of the above mentioned pitchers got a 5 year deal worth around 80 million. Granted these were signed in 2010 and 2011 but when you consider inflation of a players value over the past 2 years I think the $100/5 is fair and puts him on par with the elite pitchers. $150/5 is just ridiculous. Afterall who would you rather have Verlander, Weaver or Felix at $80 million or Greinke at double that?

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 06:19 PM
If you believe he is a top notch ace sure.....

In my opinion guys like Verlander, Weaver and King Felix are top notch aces. By comparison all 3 of the above mentioned pitchers got a 5 year deal worth around 80 million.

All three of the above re-signed with their teams before they reached free agency and Greinke is the best starter on the open market this year.

He will get paid vastly better than all three, regardless if he is better than them or not.

Fly
11-08-2012, 06:24 PM
If you believe he is a top notch ace sure.....

In my opinion guys like Verlander, Weaver and King Felix are top notch aces. By comparison all 3 of the above mentioned pitchers got a 5 year deal worth around 80 million. Granted these were signed in 2010 and 2011 but when you consider inflation of a players value over the past 2 years I think the $100/5 is fair and puts him on par with the elite pitchers. $150/5 is just ridiculous. Afterall who would you rather have Verlander, Weaver or Felix at $80 million or Greinke at double that?

It's funny because Greinke is better than Weaver

Ian.
11-08-2012, 06:31 PM
Greinke is one best pitchers in the league. He absolutely deserves top dollar.

carson005
11-08-2012, 06:41 PM
Can't compare his contract to Hamels either. Hamels isn't on the open market.

Scully in 2012
11-08-2012, 07:05 PM
If you believe he is a top notch ace sure.....

In my opinion guys like Verlander, Weaver and King Felix are top notch aces. By comparison all 3 of the above mentioned pitchers got a 5 year deal worth around 80 million.

All three of the above re-signed with their teams before they reached free agency and Greinke is the best starter on the open market this year.

He will get paid vastly better than all three, regardless if he is better than them or not.


If Verlander and King Felix were FA this year they would get significantly more though. Amazing how being the best FA in a given year change the value of a contract.

If Grienke is worth 5x110-150 then Verlander or King Felix are 5x200 guys.

SenorGato
11-08-2012, 07:08 PM
If Grienke is worth 5x110

I'd actually be ecstatic if I were a team that could get him to agree to that.

xxplayerxx23
11-08-2012, 07:17 PM
Id like him on the yankees but not at that price. Enjoy LA.

Lakers + Giants
11-08-2012, 07:45 PM
that means he only wants to go to the dodgers.

giantspwn
11-08-2012, 08:35 PM
If the Dodgers sign Greinke anywhere near his demands they'll be paying around 30-35 mil per year after tax. :laugh2:

I doubt they sign him though, Kershaw still needs to be locked up. I think an outside team like the Brewers could have a good shot. He doesn't really make a ton of sense for most big market teams right now given their payrolls.

Scully in 2012
11-08-2012, 08:41 PM
He may want 6 X 150 but that doesn't mean he will get it.

I don't see the Dodgers paying anywhere near that. They have said money is not a concern but they still have to lock up Kershaw - he is far more important.

I'm betting Texas and the Anaheim (not LA) Angels will make a run at him. He will pick Texas

Pinstripe pride
11-09-2012, 08:58 AM
I get that. Just making a point that Grienke could very likely handle any atmosphere at this point. If I was a player I would want to play there either. You guys can be brutal!!!

i know. he would do well in new york, iu just cant see him willingly subjecting himslef to that atmosphere when he could get top dollar elsewhere still. just could you can ahndle new york doesn't mean you have the desire to try

roylikeswaffles
11-09-2012, 10:19 AM
Honestly I'm hoping Texas decides to spend some of their Hamilton money on Greinke

Dmac
11-10-2012, 10:52 PM
That's ace type money. I just don't see him as an ace. I see him as a really good #2.

jlohm1
11-10-2012, 11:02 PM
dodgers in with a 5 year 200 million dollar offer to blow everyone out of contention

:laugh:


but I agree that one of the LA teams will sign him for more than he's worth

Farsight
11-10-2012, 11:02 PM
That's ace type money. I just don't see him as an ace. I see him as a really good #2. Since 2008, hes arguably been a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball. If that doesnt scream ace, than i dont know what does.

Dmac
11-10-2012, 11:17 PM
Since 2008, hes arguably been a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball. If that doesnt scream ace, than i dont know what does.

I don't think he is top 5. He is also too much of a head case for me. No way I would give him that kind of money. If I was the Yankees or Angels I would be interested in signing him as a #2 but I wouldn't give him more than 18 million a year. I think he would be better off as being the second guy as apposed to being the main go to guy in the rotation. I think the less pressure he has the better it is for him.

Farsight
11-10-2012, 11:36 PM
I don't think he is top 5. He is also too much of a head case for me. No way I would give him that kind of money. If I was the Yankees or Angels I would be interested in signing him as a #2 but I wouldn't give him more than 18 million a year. I think he would be better off as being the second guy as apposed to being the main go to guy in the rotation. I think the less pressure he has the better it is for him. The idea of him being a headcase is overblown. Hes pitches in big cities, and tough games on a night to night basis. Does he have some anxiety issues? Yeah sure, but it does not seem to have detracted from his performances.

Since 2008, hes 4 in xFIP(3.26) and 6th in FIP (3.05). Furthermore, he has over 1000 innings pitched - hes in the top 15 in that category.

Realistically, i see him getting anywhere from 20-22 million a year, for over 5-6 years... Hes one of the best pitchers in baseball, and hes going to be paid pretty handsomely

Illa215
11-10-2012, 11:40 PM
"He's too much of a headcase"

:laugh2: That's ****ing hilarious.

Dmac
11-10-2012, 11:42 PM
The idea of him being a headcase is overblown. Hes pitches in big cities, and tough games on a night to night basis. Does he have some anxiety issues? Yeah sure, but it does not seem to have detracted from his performances.

Since 2008, hes 4 in xFIP(3.26) and 6th in FIP (3.05). Furthermore, he has over 1000 innings pitched - hes in the top 15 in that category.

Realistically, i see him getting anywhere from 20-22 million a year, for over 5-6 years... Hes one of the best pitchers in baseball, and hes going to be paid pretty handsomely

I don't think it's overblown at all. And if your going to commit that kind of money, that has to play a big factor in the decision regardless. I never said he wasn't going to get that much, I just said I wouldn't give it to him.

Jeffy25
11-10-2012, 11:42 PM
I don't think he is top 5. He is also too much of a head case for me. No way I would give him that kind of money. If I was the Yankees or Angels I would be interested in signing him as a #2 but I wouldn't give him more than 18 million a year. I think he would be better off as being the second guy as apposed to being the main go to guy in the rotation. I think the less pressure he has the better it is for him.

How is a headcase?

Because he has anxiety?

TO Rapz
11-10-2012, 11:55 PM
I don't think he is top 5. He is also too much of a head case for me. No way I would give him that kind of money. If I was the Yankees or Angels I would be interested in signing him as a #2 but I wouldn't give him more than 18 million a year. I think he would be better off as being the second guy as apposed to being the main go to guy in the rotation. I think the less pressure he has the better it is for him.

Lol he's a headcase. And even funnier that he's not an ace. Have you seen Greinke's #s?

StryderSox
11-11-2012, 09:26 AM
It's funny because Greinke is better than Weaver

At what? Or is it just because you said so

StryderSox
11-11-2012, 09:32 AM
Lol he's a headcase. And even funnier that he's not an ace. Have you seen Greinke's #s?

Yes and there are a number of pitchers that have better numbers. No one is arguing that he isn't very good. However if you are demanding 25 Million per year you better be the best in the game which Grienke isnt even close too. As for being an ace he hasn't been the ace of a staff since he left KC.

Scully in 2012
11-11-2012, 06:37 PM
Grienke is at best 5-10 Bert pitcher in the MLB...not top 5. Is he an "ace" yes and no, depending of the staff. In any case, he is a very good pitcher ad certainly the best FA this year. That alone builds his hype. He will definitely get more than he is worth but I double he gets 150 mil.

6x120

Ian.
11-11-2012, 06:47 PM
Greinke is a legitimate ace.

SenorGato
11-11-2012, 06:50 PM
Greinke is a legitimate ace.

That's how he's going to be sold. I think he's a 20 million dollar pitcher, which is more relevant to his FA. I question that he's one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball - he isn't - and that I would want him to be *the* anchor in my rotation (an anchor? hell yes).

KingPosey
11-11-2012, 06:52 PM
I honestly don't think Greinke is a top tier ace. He has only had one year of real consistency

Jeffy25
11-11-2012, 06:57 PM
I honestly don't think Greinke is a top tier ace. He has only had one year of real consistency

First of all, that's impossible.

How can you be consistent for one year?


Secondly, since 2009 (last four seasons)

Greinke is 5th in fWAR (23.5) behind Verlander, Lee, Hernandez, and Halladay

He is tied for 3rd in FIP with Verlander and Halladay

And he is 3rd in xFIP behind Halladay and Lee

14th in innings
and he is 4th in K/BB

If he isn't a top-tiered pitcher in all of baseball, then I guess Verlander, Halladay, and Hernandez are not either.

He is an absolute beast on the mound. He doesn't sustain the best ERA, but he is clearly doing his part to be a dominant pitcher, and he deserves to get 'ace' caliber money.

SportsAndrew25
11-11-2012, 07:21 PM
If he wants that type of money, he should sign with the Rockies.

Farsight
11-11-2012, 08:04 PM
First of all, that's impossible.

How can you be consistent for one year?


Secondly, since 2009 (last four seasons)

Greinke is 5th in fWAR (23.5) behind Verlander, Lee, Hernandez, and Halladay

He is tied for 3rd in FIP with Verlander and Halladay

And he is 3rd in xFIP behind Halladay and Lee

14th in innings
and he is 4th in K/BB

If he isn't a top-tiered pitcher in all of baseball, then I guess Verlander, Halladay, and Hernandez are not either.

He is an absolute beast on the mound. He doesn't sustain the best ERA, but he is clearly doing his part to be a dominant pitcher, and he deserves to get 'ace' caliber money.Completely agree. As i stated in the previous pages, he is defenately a top 5 pitcher. He should and probably will get 20-22 million a year

KingPosey
11-11-2012, 08:04 PM
First of all, that's impossible.

How can you be consistent for one year?


Secondly, since 2009 (last four seasons)

Greinke is 5th in fWAR (23.5) behind Verlander, Lee, Hernandez, and Halladay

He is tied for 3rd in FIP with Verlander and Halladay

And he is 3rd in xFIP behind Halladay and Lee

14th in innings
and he is 4th in K/BB

If he isn't a top-tiered pitcher in all of baseball, then I guess Verlander, Halladay, and Hernandez are not either.

He is an absolute beast on the mound. He doesn't sustain the best ERA, but he is clearly doing his part to be a dominant pitcher, and he deserves to get 'ace' caliber money.
Jeffry don't be stupid. There is a very clear way to show consistency over a 6 month seAson. What an asinine point of
View.

I really can't believe you would say something that unintelligent.

Jeffy25
11-11-2012, 08:08 PM
Jeffry don't be stupid. There is a very clear way to show consistency over a 6 month seAson. What an asinine point of
View.

Do you know what the definition of consistency is?


You said he

I honestly don't think Greinke is a top tier ace. He has only had one year of real consistency

Which isn't true.

He has been very consistent.

He had one year of elite caliber play, and has been consistently dominant since them (the last three years).

Last three seasons
FIP
3.34
2.98
3.10

IP
220
171.2
212.1

BB/9
2.25
2.36
2.29

K/9
7.40
10.54
8.48


I don't know what else he is supposed to do to be more 'consistent'

SenorGato
11-11-2012, 10:32 PM
Greinke by rWAR

2004: 3.6
.8
0
2.1
5
10.1
3.2
1.4
3.3 in 2012

Nothing wrong with calling him inconsistent, and you can beat teams will look hard into his character. Even if it was over a half decade ago, this is still a player who almost quit playing pro ball because he was not feeling right in the head. If you're going to put 20+ million into him, and some team will, you better be sure of what you're getting.

I do think those WAR numbers don't fully reflect the talent level of the player and he's closer to the 4-5 WAR pitcher he's been on FanGraphs. He's entering his prime years as a pitcher and I will not be surprised if he's well worth the money he's paid (possibly he even offers surplus value). He has many attributes that I think will allow him to age very gracefully as a pitcher (fit, athletic, healthy, throws hard, gets strikeouts, only recently relying less on his fastball).

StryderSox
11-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Completely agree. As i stated in the previous pages, he is defenately a top 5 pitcher. He should and probably will get 20-22 million a year

There are exactly 3 pitchers in the MLB making more than 20 million per year. Johan Santana, CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee. I think everyone will agree that Johan Santana is not worth that much money. CC Sabathia has been the anchor of the rotation in probably the most pressure filled market in baseball and is an annual Cy Young candidate. Cliff Lee signed his contract when he was one of the hottest pitchers in the game and again an annual Cy Young candidate.

Zach Grienke on the other hand has yet to be the true standout ace on any staff since leaving KC and is one year removed from missing 200 IP. Upwards of 25 million per year for the next 5 years would mean he has to pitch in a big market and I would assume if you are one of the top 3 highest paid pitchers in the game that the team that signs that contract will want him to e the anchor of their rotation. I am just not so sure that Greinke could handle the expectations of playing in a big market with that kind of money. Those fanbases will be expecting an expecting an extremely dominant pitcher for that kind of money (see Verlander dominance).

Farsight
11-12-2012, 01:53 PM
There are exactly 3 pitchers in the MLB making more than 20 million per year. Johan Santana, CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee. I think everyone will agree that Johan Santana is not worth that much money. CC Sabathia has been the anchor of the rotation in probably the most pressure filled market in baseball and is an annual Cy Young candidate. Cliff Lee signed his contract when he was one of the hottest pitchers in the game and again an annual Cy Young candidate.

Zach Grienke on the other hand has yet to be the true standout ace on any staff since leaving KC and is one year removed from missing 200 IP. Upwards of 25 million per year for the next 5 years would mean he has to pitch in a big market and I would assume if you are one of the top 3 highest paid pitchers in the game that the team that signs that contract will want him to e the anchor of their rotation. I am just not so sure that Greinke could handle the expectations of playing in a big market with that kind of money. Those fanbases will be expecting an expecting an extremely dominant pitcher for that kind of money (see Verlander dominance). You have to compare apples to apples here. Verlander, Hernandez, and even Halladay all signed contract extensions before they hit the market. The two pitchers that actually hit the open market were Sabathia and Cliff Lee. Both who are considered aces. As previously mentioned, if you look at his FIP, xFIP, K/9, BB/9 over the past 4 years, hes a top 5 pitcher. So i do believe he is an "ace". As a result, i believe we are going to see a contract more comparable to that of Sabathia and Lee (ironically, Lee took a paycut to join Philly, instead of joining the Yankees).

I dont understand get these ideas that "he cant handle the pressure" or "play in a big market". Is it because he has anxiety? Hes been able to cope with it thus far, and hes shown time and time again that hes capable of putting great to elite numbers up.

StryderSox
11-12-2012, 02:42 PM
You have to compare apples to apples here. Verlander, Hernandez, and even Halladay all signed contract extensions before they hit the market. The two pitchers that actually hit the open market were Sabathia and Cliff Lee. Both who are considered aces. As previously mentioned, if you look at his FIP, xFIP, K/9, BB/9 over the past 4 years, hes a top 5 pitcher. So i do believe he is an "ace". As a result, i believe we are going to see a contract more comparable to that of Sabathia and Lee (ironically, Lee took a paycut to join Philly, instead of joining the Yankees).

I dont understand get these ideas that "he cant handle the pressure" or "play in a big market". Is it because he has anxiety? Hes been able to cope with it thus far, and hes shown time and time again that hes capable of putting great to elite numbers up.

Sorry I dont see great to elite numbers with the exception of 2009. As for his anxiety that he has been able to handle..... there is a big difference between facing the fans and media in Kansas City, Milwaukee and Anaheim when things arent all coming up roses and answering to the media in New York, Boston or Chicago when you are owed $150 million dollars.

Farsight
11-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Sorry I dont see great to elite numbers with the exception of 2009. As for his anxiety that he has been able to handle..... there is a big difference between facing the fans and media in Kansas City, Milwaukee and Anaheim when things arent all coming up roses and answering to the media in New York, Boston or Chicago when you are owed $150 million dollars. He had one VERY elite year (one of the best seasons in recent decade), followed by 3 really great years. Im not sure how you cannot consider him an ace.

The idea that he cant "handle big market teams" is blown out of the water. Los Angeles is one of the biggest markets in baseball. He seemed to handle that well. Furthermore, he pitched in these big markets before. He knows what its like to pitch in these stadiums in front of these fans. Im sure there will be more pressure from the media, but other low key guys were able to perform while playing there. I think its a big leap of faith to say he wont perform in bigger markets.

Scully in 2012
11-12-2012, 04:44 PM
He had one VERY elite year (one of the best seasons in recent decade), followed by 3 really great years. Im not sure how you cannot consider him an ace.

The idea that he cant "handle big market teams" is blown out of the water. Los Angles is one of the biggest markets in baseball. He seemed to handle that well. Furthermore, he pitched in these big markets before. He knows what its like to pitch in these stadiums in front of these fans. Im sure there will be more pressure from the media, but other low key guys were able to perform while playing there. I think its a big leap of faith to say he wont perform in bigger markets.

I agree with the concept of your post but he never pitched in Los Angeles, he pitched in Anaheim. :)

He will do well anywhere he goes. Let's all Hope it is the Los Angeles Dodgers...of Los Angeles...

Farsight
11-12-2012, 05:01 PM
I agree with the concept of your post but he never pitched in Los Angeles, he pitched in Anaheim. :)

He will do well anywhere he goes. Let's all Hope it is the Los Angeles Dodgers...of Los Angeles... Lol sorry, i usually proof read my posts. Studying for a mid term... that was a badddd spelling error on my part

jlohm1
11-12-2012, 07:56 PM
I honestly don't think Greinke is a top tier ace.

I don't think he is either. I think he's more of a $15-18 million a year pitcher. and $18 is really pushing it. but he's going to get at least $20 million a year because he's lucky enough to be the best free agent SP this off season

Jeffy25
11-12-2012, 08:02 PM
There are exactly 3 pitchers in the MLB making more than 20 million per year. Johan Santana, CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee. I think everyone will agree that Johan Santana is not worth that much money. CC Sabathia has been the anchor of the rotation in probably the most pressure filled market in baseball and is an annual Cy Young candidate. Cliff Lee signed his contract when he was one of the hottest pitchers in the game and again an annual Cy Young candidate.

Zach Grienke on the other hand has yet to be the true standout ace on any staff since leaving KC and is one year removed from missing 200 IP. Upwards of 25 million per year for the next 5 years would mean he has to pitch in a big market and I would assume if you are one of the top 3 highest paid pitchers in the game that the team that signs that contract will want him to e the anchor of their rotation. I am just not so sure that Greinke could handle the expectations of playing in a big market with that kind of money. Those fanbases will be expecting an expecting an extremely dominant pitcher for that kind of money (see Verlander dominance).

Verlander makes 20.1 million, and Halladay makes exactly 20 ;)

But you said over 20 million, yes.

lol, please
11-12-2012, 08:06 PM
In before move to Dodgers forum


Lol I am so glad we resigned hamels when we did. He would get like 170 mill from the Dodgers


Dodgers


Greinke will get that money from one of the LA teams.

These. :laugh2:

StryderSox
11-13-2012, 04:31 PM
He had one VERY elite year (one of the best seasons in recent decade), followed by 3 really great years. Im not sure how you cannot consider him an ace.

The idea that he cant "handle big market teams" is blown out of the water. Los Angeles is one of the biggest markets in baseball. He seemed to handle that well. Furthermore, he pitched in these big markets before. He knows what its like to pitch in these stadiums in front of these fans. Im sure there will be more pressure from the media, but other low key guys were able to perform while playing there. I think its a big leap of faith to say he wont perform in bigger markets.

The bolded areas are where we disagree. I will give you that in 2009 Greinke's season was one of the most dominant in the past decade. After that however I fail to see where Greinke had "really great years"? His 2010 and 2011 years werent much better than average in my opinion but certainly werent "ace" years. His 2012 numbers were good but there were others with a better 2012. I am not sure which stats you are looking at to determine his "top 5 status" from 2010, 2011 and 2012.

As for Anahiem being a big market they dont come close to the kind of media pressure in New York, Boston and Chicago. Yes Greinke has pitched in all 3 of those cities but if you look at those games you will find that he pitched well in one start at Fenway and got rocked at Yankee Stadium and Wrigley. I realize this is a tiny sample size but there is also a huge difference between pitching in these cities for one night and then heading home and pitching there for 5 years trying to live up to a $150 million contract. You say that him pitching in a big market is overblown but there are a number of other star calibre players that signed big contracts and completely crumble under the pressure of the New York, Boston and Chicago media (prime examples John Lackey, Carl Crawford, Edgar Renteria, Adam Dunn, AJ Burnett).

flea
11-13-2012, 04:34 PM
If Greinke isn't an ace then there are only a handful of aces in the league. He's going to get paid.

SenorGato
11-13-2012, 04:49 PM
If Greinke isn't an ace then there are only a handful of aces in the league. He's going to get paid.

There are only a handful of true, bonafide, workhorse aces in the league. To me he's someone who definitely has the ability to join that elite group, but right now he is on the outside looking in.

If you expand the role of ace to include anyone who can put up good numbers over a solid amount of innings then it becomes a much more general term with a much larger pool of talent. His talent is right up there with anyone in that pool of talent, but to be a true #1 ace to me he will have to find some consistency. Luckily he has all the physical attributes...

flea
11-13-2012, 04:57 PM
There are only a handful of true, bonafide, workhorse aces in the league. To me he's someone who definitely has the ability to join that elite group, but right now he is on the outside looking in.

If you expand the role of ace to include anyone who can put up good numbers over a solid amount of innings then it becomes a much more general term with a much larger pool of talent. His talent is right up there with anyone in that pool of talent, but to be a true #1 ace to me he will have to find some consistency. Luckily he has all the physical attributes...

Well he's essentially been as valuable as Cole Hamels since coming into the league and they're both the same age. Hamels got $144 million and is seen as a budding workhorse ace (as you describe). And Hamels never hit the open market. Greinke has every right to expect that much or more since he's a free agent. I'd probably prefer Greinke between the 2 of them but there's no real evidence I can point to since, like I said, they have produced at virtually identifcal rates.

SenorGato
11-13-2012, 05:09 PM
Well he's essentially been as valuable as Cole Hamels since coming into the league and they're both the same age. Hamels got $144 million and is seen as a budding workhorse ace (as you describe). And Hamels never hit the open market. Greinke has every right to expect that much or more since he's a free agent. I'd probably prefer Greinke between the 2 of them but there's no real evidence I can point to since, like I said, they have produced at virtually identifcal rates.

Actually I agree with you that he and Hamels are basically on that same tier, which is why his request isn't laughable.

OTOH, Hamels had no questions of makeup, only slight questions on health/durability, and was the workhorse on a team that won the World Series. I think both he and Greinke will age very well, BUT I will say that if I had a choice between the two I would pick Hamels.

To me the money total will come down to the years...if he's making close to 25 a year then the deal is going for 5-6 years. If he wants the security of a 7/8 year deal then I expect it will the average salary will be close to 20 than 25.

Illa215
11-13-2012, 05:10 PM
Looking at other fans' views of Greinke, he's going to be an absolute steal for someone. But I'd be surprised if GM's felt the same way as most fans about him.

SenorGato
11-13-2012, 05:17 PM
I expect he'll be the Carlos Beltran of FA pitchers - signed to a substantial deal that turns out to be a great deal for his team (and obviously him).

Pinstripe pride
11-14-2012, 09:51 AM
Looking at other fans' views of Greinke, he's going to be an absolute steal for someone. But I'd be surprised if GM's felt the same way as most fans about him.

i doubt it, he's still going to be get a huge deal. not saying he wpnt be worth it, but i doubt he'll be a steal

Scully in 2012
11-15-2012, 12:48 AM
Looking at other fans' views of Greinke, he's going to be an absolute steal for someone. But I'd be surprised if GM's felt the same way as most fans about him.

i doubt it, he's still going to be get a huge deal. not saying he wpnt be worth it, but i doubt he'll be a steal


I agree. Someone will pay...

Yanks are out. It comes down to what Texas, Anaheim and the (LA) Dodgers are willing to pay.

SenorGato
11-15-2012, 01:05 AM
Different levels of steal...Mussina was a steal for the Yankees, but 6/89 would be considered an overpay by the masses at the time and was certainly not a light contract when it was made.

It's the "if you got it, flaunt it/put it to use" mentality of some team that will make him a steal, because the talent has the potential to make him an absolutely terrific signing.