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View Full Version : VC says he'd be open to rejoining Raptors at some point



ThuglifeJ
11-07-2012, 06:13 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=408989

videos on the right hand corner.

kinda cool basically says he loves Toronto and said he'd accept getting his jersey retired there without a doubt after being asked.
They asked if hed ever return to Toronto and he said hed definitely be open to that.


I'd say do it, just another NBA story for upcomin seasons.

thoughts?

JNA17
11-07-2012, 06:24 PM
Good luck with the Raptors even wanting you back VC. :laugh:

Tmath
11-07-2012, 06:33 PM
Don't see either of those two happening.

Slug3
11-07-2012, 06:33 PM
Why does he think they would accept him back.

Nick O
11-07-2012, 06:36 PM
i dont want him back at all... cant really trust him either.. total **** up ..

bucketss
11-07-2012, 06:39 PM
hes much better than fields so why not.

ThuglifeJ
11-07-2012, 06:42 PM
for the record he didnt come out and start saying these things he was asked these questions...watch the video damn

SteveNash
11-07-2012, 06:43 PM
Why does he think they would accept him back.

He'd be their best player.

netsgiantsyanks
11-07-2012, 06:51 PM
i still consider the VC deal a pure robbery.

#Shumpert Up
11-07-2012, 06:52 PM
too little too late to make up with toronto's fans..but hey..anybodys better than fields !

R. Johnson#3
11-07-2012, 06:53 PM
No, just retire, get out of the NBA and live with your momma.

bucketss
11-07-2012, 06:53 PM
He'd be their best player.

have you met kyle lowry?

ThuglifeJ
11-07-2012, 06:59 PM
all anyone does on PSD is read the title, produce assumptions, and then post nonsense?

Gram
11-07-2012, 07:03 PM
have you met kyle lowry?

I don't think many people here have met him. :shrug:

bucketss
11-07-2012, 07:06 PM
funny.

Gram
11-07-2012, 07:07 PM
funny.

:rolleyes:

JasonJohnHorn
11-07-2012, 07:17 PM
I'm a Raptors fan and what he did to the organization AND the fans disgusts me. He intentionally tanked his performance. He gave up on his teammates, and the fans. I understand players wanting to be trade. Garnett wanted to be traded, but he never tanked his performance in Minny. Even that last season when they missed the playoffs he busted his @$$ off and I believe lead the league in rebounding. I don't blame players who get upset with the organization they play for, but the fans are paying your bills. You can't let them down the way VC did. And your teammates depend on you, to leave them out there hanging the way VC is awful. The Dwight and Melo deals were similar situations. Melo handled it a little better I think, but neither of those two players gave up on the court. When they played, they played to the best of their ability, and did not let down the fans or their teammates, even when they weren't getting along with the organization.

VC, in my opinion, not only doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired, he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF either, and I would be furious of the Raptors organization ever brought him back in any capacity. Though, that said, I am already furious with them for not only drafting Bargnani and DeRozen, but for giving them crazy contracts that no other team in the league would have given them.

ThuglifeJ
11-07-2012, 07:48 PM
10 years ago. jus sayin. You think people mature in 10 years at all? I think so

Bill Walton was right when he said Canadian sports fans are all cynics

DoMeFavors
11-07-2012, 07:57 PM
Why would you want him? he is old and doesnt care about winning

Ebbs
11-07-2012, 08:01 PM
I think not only does he deserve to be in the ACC raptors but it needs to happen. Everyone knows he is a black spot on the raptors. He however is also the best player to ever where their uniform. He took them the farthest in the post season and he brought an excitement to the game very few other players can attest to.

Toronto fans need to stop being butthurt and accept that Vince grew up. Take pride in his accomplisments rather than re-hasing his faults over and over.

ThuglifeJ
11-07-2012, 08:01 PM
@domefavors


k.

DeRaptor95
11-07-2012, 08:09 PM
Comeback make DeRozan the next VC :cool:

The1_Who_knocks
11-07-2012, 08:20 PM
Hahah

jon32
11-07-2012, 08:23 PM
Meh.......id like to see him back if only it was a good fit for the team, not just for him to try and restore his rep to get T.O to retire his number.

Also, Sam Mitchel was on some show today ( saw a clip on SC earlier ) where he said Vince changed his mind cuz he saw how the team was goin and he wanted to stay but it was too late. Dunno what truth there is to it ? I may have heard wrong but he said somtihn like that.....anyone else see it ?

Ebbs
11-07-2012, 08:32 PM
Meh.......id like to see him back if only it was a good fit for the team, not just for him to try and restore his rep to get T.O to retire his number.

Also, Sam Mitchel was on some show today ( saw a clip on SC earlier ) where he said Vince changed his mind cuz he saw how the team was goin and he wanted to stay but it was too late. Dunno what truth there is to it ? I may have heard wrong but he said somtihn like that.....anyone else see it ?

Yea I did I believe it to be honest.

scaramantula
11-07-2012, 08:38 PM
if he actually wanted to play here i would sign him up, but theres no way eevn if he retired here would i retire his number

jon32
11-07-2012, 08:52 PM
Yea I did I believe it to be honest.

too bad babcock didnt believe it

TO Rapz
11-07-2012, 08:59 PM
We covered this in the Raptors forum. We're not butthurt. For many reasons, **** Vince Carter.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 09:03 PM
You know that's sad to me? I think Raptors fans would eventually start cheering for him. Players who did what he did don't deserve redemption.

ThuglifeJ
11-07-2012, 09:26 PM
We covered this in the Raptors forum. We're not butthurt. For many reasons, **** Vince Carter.

apparently you are still.

btw I did see that sam mitchell interview today where he said Vince actually came to him to try and stay in Toronto but the GM said he had a good deal (lol) and was ready to pull the trigger on it.

idk y this was a secret till now.

Chronz
11-07-2012, 09:34 PM
Its a shame the Raptors arent contending because that would be a great ending to his career. But because they are currently in shambles, it would only add fuel to the hate some hold for him there. Imagine VC at the end of his career on a losing team getting booed every night. Would Toronto do that?

Raps18-19 Champ
11-07-2012, 09:42 PM
I wouldn't mind if he came back. Though he should go to a contender or retire.

Chronz
11-07-2012, 09:47 PM
I'm a Raptors fan and what he did to the organization AND the fans disgusts me. He intentionally tanked his performance. He gave up on his teammates, and the fans. I understand players wanting to be trade. Garnett wanted to be traded, but he never tanked his performance in Minny. Even that last season when they missed the playoffs he busted his @$$ off and I believe lead the league in rebounding. I don't blame players who get upset with the organization they play for, but the fans are paying your bills. You can't let them down the way VC did. And your teammates depend on you, to leave them out there hanging the way VC is awful.
I would really love to know more about Vince's side of the argument, I have a hard time believing he would act out for no reason. From what I remember, management didn't honor his request to be traded. Which as shady as it is, is a no-no with superstars. Your only going to sour their attitude and bring down their trade value. The minute AI requested a trade, they sent AI home and told him to wait until they found him a new team. KG never requested a trade until later in his career and it was something he regrets, its true he never lashed out at the organization when he did get traded but they respected his wishes and let him decide where he wanted to go. I also remember KG being able to play down the stretch of a lost season but deciding to stay home and nurse the injury. To some that could be taken as tanking, who cares?




The Dwight and Melo deals were similar situations. Melo handled it a little better I think, but neither of those two players gave up on the court. When they played, they played to the best of their ability, and did not let down the fans or their teammates, even when they weren't getting along with the organization.
You and George Karl have a very different recollection of the Melodrama. I dont think you know all that much about how Melo's play effected the team.

Besides your comparison is missing one ingredient, JUSTIFICATION.

Melo was on a great organization that was building him a contending supporting cast, they just didn't contend because he himself lacked the intangibles AND production of a true star. VC wasn't much better but he put a franchise on the map and they repaid him with a horrid cast. Im sure both parties had faults but in the end VC just wanted a fresh start anywhere else whereas Melo wanted out of a good situation to go to a poorer one, albeit one in NY. His story has yet to play out but there is no question the outlook in Denver was far brighter than Vince's outlook in Toronto.

Dwight..... his situation was just about controlling his bird rights while choosing where to play, ultimate selfishness IMO, he HAD the opportunity to become a FREE AGENT, but he chose to opt in and try to control his own destiny. It doesnt get much worse to me

netsgiantsyanks
11-07-2012, 10:07 PM
you can't put ALL the blame on VC, what other competent player did he have when he was on that team? morris peterson? you can make a case for bosh but i think he was a rookie when VC got traded. i'm not denying that he acted like a *** though.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 11:59 PM
VC-Bosh could have been legit. VC is a clown who faked and injury and forced a trade. And he forced the Raptors to take a **** trade. He gets no respect from me.

bucketss
11-08-2012, 12:20 AM
you can't put ALL the blame on VC, what other competent player did he have when he was on that team? morris peterson? you can make a case for bosh but i think he was a rookie when VC got traded. i'm not denying that he acted like a *** though.

i understand that didn't mean he had to stop dunking and just give up. he also told the other team our plays.

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 03:51 AM
to the annoying Raptors fans trying to spew he doesnt play defense..doesnt try..doesnt pass w.e that's such repetitive garbage that you know isn't true but will say just to persuade those who don't watch him.

watch a video of just tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WxHggyPw2o&feature=g-all-u

that basically sums up VC now days. Cant dominate like he used to but still does everything to be a good teammate. Still has a huge array of scoring ability, makes outstanding passes, gets a block or steal or two and gets everyone involved

Sadds The Gr8
11-08-2012, 04:06 AM
You know that's sad to me? I think Raptors fans would eventually start cheering for him. Players who did what he did don't deserve redemption.


VC-Bosh could have been legit. VC is a clown who faked and injury and forced a trade. And he forced the Raptors to take a **** trade. He gets no respect from me.

this.

Tysons_Beard
11-08-2012, 04:08 AM
vince should never retire the guy still does awesome ****

pacman16
11-08-2012, 04:15 AM
As a raps fan, I would welcome him back... people got to stop taking this so personal and realize raptors were a mess of an organization.
Also, there's many players like this in the NBA, some was managements fault and some was carters.
Bosh jetted the first chance he got after stating how much he loved tdot etc, he was just fake about it all.

VC put the raps on the map on a whole new level. when someone does something like that, yu let the childish kid acts go. lots of stars make mistakes, im sure he regrets things he did and how he went about some things.

Tmath
11-08-2012, 04:17 AM
to the annoying Raptors fans trying to spew he doesnt play defense..doesnt try..doesnt pass w.e that's such repetitive garbage that you know isn't true but will say just to persuade those who don't watch him.

watch a video of just tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WxHggyPw2o&feature=g-all-u

that basically sums up VC now days. Cant dominate like he used to but still does everything to be a good teammate. Still has a huge array of scoring ability, makes outstanding passes, gets a block or steal or two and gets everyone involved

That video is a terrible example, everyone knows VC tries that much harder when he plays against the Raptors. Also that first and 1 layup in the video was a BS call by the ref and that wasn't the only one that game.

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 04:35 AM
lol so. he made it?

theres so many cynical/depressed raptor fans it's so strange..like lighten up it's a sport for your entertainment.
w.e you can be one of the guys who boos if this does happen (not sayin it will). I mean it would probably suck having to cheer for Vince, the highlight of your franchise, when he has a good game/flashback dunk while he's trying to resolve things with his first fans.

That must suck compared to the highlight of your season being when Landry Fields makes his first layup.

I really feel sorry that VC is trying to answer questions by the Raptor media nicely rather than being an ***. how dare he

Sadds The Gr8
11-08-2012, 04:38 AM
Its a shame the Raptors arent contending because that would be a great ending to his career. But because they are currently in shambles, it would only add fuel to the hate some hold for him there. Imagine VC at the end of his career on a losing team getting booed every night. Would Toronto do that?

i'd guess 35% cheers, 65% boos.

JasonJohnHorn
11-08-2012, 04:56 AM
I love hearing fans of other teams go on about the Raptors fan and how they should get over it. If some player had done to your organization what Cater did to the Raptors, you wouldn't want his jersey hanging in your rafters either. So we got out of the first round once with him. That's worth retiring a jersey?

I'm not "butthurt" over it, I don't even think about out. I currently more furious over the contracts given to Coangelo, Bargnani and DeRozen. I don't care where Vince plays. It is not like Raptors fans are making threads about this. The OP posted something, so some of us shared our thoughts (and some would like to see him back, though I am obviously not one of those people).

You can't do want Carter did and expect fans to forgive you for it, or expect an organization to retire your jersey just because you helped to win one playoff series.

If winning one playoff series in seven seasons gets your jersey retired, then there would be no numbers left to wear.

Could you imagine telling a Boston fan or an NY or LA fan that they should retire a players jersey after pulling what Carter pulled just because he helped them win one playoff series? Seriously?

Toronto is a young organization and it hasn't seen a lot of success yet, but that doesn't mean it should start celebrating mediocrity.

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 05:11 AM
but it's not LA or Boston..and they wouldn't still be a young franchise without VC they'd be NO franchise. They'd be the vancouver grizzlies..how can you compare Toronto to LA/Boston!

after 10+ years you should be open for forgivness. your post is nonsense, just because holding a grudge for VC is all you have going for you fans I swear. Vince has grown up, you fans should too. In 10 years a man grows a lot mentally, and there's nothing wrong with resolving what happened. This isn't high school.

you can pretend all you want if it helps you sleep. But the truth is Vince will be remembered always when it comes to basketball. Mostly for dunking? sure. You love basketball you love dunks..

VC was the show of league when he was on the Raptors. Dont compare it to the Celtics/Lakers standards and take it for what it was. No he didnt win a championship with his mediocre supporting cast. But he did pretty darn good for the roster and city he was dealt.

hell he was drafted by a NOBODY franchise. an absolute fresh NOTHING no respect DINOSAUR Franchise. And he turned it into MUST WATCH TV. Show some respect you unappreciative *****es!

YOU SHOULD BE LUCKY HE EVEN PLAYED 6 YEARS FOR THAT JOKE

no one's saying what he did wasnt a childish act, not even Vince is saying that. NBA players are spoiled get over it or you'll hate majority of the players. But the fact that he made your city even relevant to the NBA deserves more than to dwell on one blip of his career

ink
11-08-2012, 07:41 AM
Meh.......id like to see him back if only it was a good fit for the team, not just for him to try and restore his rep to get T.O to retire his number.

Also, Sam Mitchel was on some show today ( saw a clip on SC earlier ) where he said Vince changed his mind cuz he saw how the team was goin and he wanted to stay but it was too late. Dunno what truth there is to it ? I may have heard wrong but he said somtihn like that.....anyone else see it ?

Sounds like revisionist history from Sam to make himself look better as coach. That team was brutal from beginning to end.

ink
11-08-2012, 07:44 AM
Its a shame the Raptors arent contending because that would be a great ending to his career. But because they are currently in shambles, it would only add fuel to the hate some hold for him there. Imagine VC at the end of his career on a losing team getting booed every night. Would Toronto do that?

They're not in such shambles any more, and if they were it was largely because the petulant little fart forced his way out of the franchise, leaving their rookie GM with no option except to trade him for absolutely nothing. His selfishness cost an organization years of turmoil. He wouldn't be welcome back and I don't think Colangelo would be interested in going there anyway.

ink
11-08-2012, 07:48 AM
VC-Bosh could have been legit.

Ironically drafting Bosh is one of the things that started VCs pouting at the time. Didn't think Bosh was good enough. Carter is a complete assclown.


VC is a clown who faked and injury and forced a trade. And he forced the Raptors to take a **** trade. He gets no respect from me.

This.

And it doesn't matter what his "side" might say. You don't fake injuries and all the crap he did if you're a professional athlete with any character.

ink
11-08-2012, 08:11 AM
apparently you are still.

btw I did see that sam mitchell interview today where he said Vince actually came to him to try and stay in Toronto but the GM said he had a good deal (lol) and was ready to pull the trigger on it.

idk y this was a secret till now.

lol, it wasn't a "secret". Sam is just trying to make his coaching look better. And DHoward also went back and forth when he was pouting his way out of ORL. No surprise here.

These guys don't want to lose fans, that's all. So they get cold feet at the last minute.

bigbeardaboss
11-08-2012, 08:53 AM
who needs VC when you have Landry Fields.

But seriously, I think that at this point of his career VC is irrelevant. He is nothing more than a role player that could add depth to an already stacked and talented team. All of which TO is NOT.

ink
11-08-2012, 09:00 AM
who needs VC when you have Landry Fields.

But seriously, I think that at this point of his career VC is irrelevant. He is nothing more than a role player that could add depth to an already stacked and talented team. All of which TO is NOT.

He hasn't even been able to do that.

GunFactor187
11-08-2012, 09:16 AM
Just a thought I had, who does T-Dot hate the most? VC or Bosh?

ink
11-08-2012, 09:26 AM
Just a thought I had, who does T-Dot hate the most? VC or Bosh?

Without a doubt, VC.

But for lots of us it isn't even hate. It's just that the guy burned a franchise so badly it's taken years to recover. Personally I think it would be stupid to go backwards.

JasonJohnHorn
11-08-2012, 09:36 AM
Just a thought I had, who does T-Dot hate the most? VC or Bosh?

I don't hate Bosh at all. He gave us a few good years and the team (aka the GM, coangelo) failed to build a contender around him. He traded away Hibbert and passed up on Granger in the draft... could you imagine a front court featuring Hibbert, Bosh and Granger? That'd be tight. Not to mention the Bargnani pick. That was just awful. He could have used that pick to Roy, Gay, LMA or even Adam Morrison ;-)

Could you imagine a starting line-up of:
Calderon
Roy
Granger
Bosh
Hibbert

Now that is a team. Bunt instead of Granger we got Joey Graham. Then we traded Hibbert for Jermaine O'Neal, and drafted Bargnanin instead of Roy, Gay or LMA. :facepalm:

I understand why Bosh left. With Coangelo running the team, there was no way to get out of 're-building' mode.

bucketss
11-08-2012, 09:44 AM
lol so. he made it?

theres so many cynical/depressed raptor fans it's so strange..like lighten up it's a sport for your entertainment.
w.e you can be one of the guys who boos if this does happen (not sayin it will). I mean it would probably suck having to cheer for Vince, the highlight of your franchise, when he has a good game/flashback dunk while he's trying to resolve things with his first fans.

That must suck compared to the highlight of your season being when Landry Fields makes his first layup.

I really feel sorry that VC is trying to answer questions by the Raptor media nicely rather than being an ***. how dare he

i know you're a Carter Zealot but you have to understand he gave up on us and F'd us over so bad we still haven't recovered 100% from it.

JasonJohnHorn
11-08-2012, 09:46 AM
but it's not LA or Boston..and they wouldn't still be a young franchise without VC they'd be NO franchise. They'd be the vancouver grizzlies..how can you compare Toronto to LA/Boston!

after 10+ years you should be open for forgivness. your post is nonsense, just because holding a grudge for VC is all you have going for you fans I swear. Vince has grown up, you fans should too. In 10 years a man grows a lot mentally, and there's nothing wrong with resolving what happened. This isn't high school.

you can pretend all you want if it helps you sleep. But the truth is Vince will be remembered always when it comes to basketball. Mostly for dunking? sure. You love basketball you love dunks..

VC was the show of league when he was on the Raptors. Dont compare it to the Celtics/Lakers standards and take it for what it was. No he didnt win a championship with his mediocre supporting cast. But he did pretty darn good for the roster and city he was dealt.

hell he was drafted by a NOBODY franchise. an absolute fresh NOTHING no respect DINOSAUR Franchise. And he turned it into MUST WATCH TV. Show some respect you unappreciative *****es!

YOU SHOULD BE LUCKY HE EVEN PLAYED 6 YEARS FOR THAT JOKE

no one's saying what he did wasnt a childish act, not even Vince is saying that. NBA players are spoiled get over it or you'll hate majority of the players. But the fact that he made your city even relevant to the NBA deserves more than to dwell on one blip of his career

So basically you want Toronto to retire somebody's jersey because he heled win one playoff series and won a dunk contest? I mean, the only reason people like watching Carter was for his dunks.

And why should Toronto fans have as high a standard as LA or Boston? I don't see the Bucks retiring Glen Robinson's jersey because he helped them get to the conference finals? Carter never even did that. So you are suggesting we lower our standards to less than the Bucks? Mashburn led Charlotte into the second round twice. They haven't retired his jersey number.

Like seriously? You expect Toronto fans to have such low standards that they would retire the jersey of a guy who only led them to one playoff vicotry? What is your criteria for getting a jersey retired?

I think fans of ANY team would expect more than a single playoff series win to retire somebody's jersey.

And you talk like Carter kept the team in toronto as if there were a possibility that it might ahve been moved. Toronto is one of the biggest markets in the NBA. They have no problem making money, before Carter or after him. They are actually one of the teams that is making money in this league. They didn't need Carter for that.

Why do you think Raptros fans should be grovelling to retire this guy's jersey when he did so little for the team?

YoungOne
11-08-2012, 09:46 AM
I doubt the raptors want or need him...

ink
11-08-2012, 09:47 AM
I don't hate Bosh at all. He gave us a few good years and the team (aka the GM, coangelo) failed to build a contender around him. He traded away Hibbert and passed up on Granger in the draft... could you imagine a front court featuring Hibbert, Bosh and Granger? That'd be tight. Not to mention the Bargnani pick. That was just awful. He could have used that pick to Roy, Gay, LMA or even Adam Morrison ;-)

Could you imagine a starting line-up of:
Calderon
Roy
Granger
Bosh
Hibbert

Now that is a team. Bunt instead of Granger we got Joey Graham. Then we traded Hibbert for Jermaine O'Neal, and drafted Bargnanin instead of Roy, Gay or LMA. :facepalm:

I understand why Bosh left. With Coangelo running the team, there was no way to get out of 're-building' mode.

Didn't Babcock draft Graham?

bucketss
11-08-2012, 09:47 AM
but it's not LA or Boston..and they wouldn't still be a young franchise without VC they'd be NO franchise. They'd be the vancouver grizzlies..how can you compare Toronto to LA/Boston!

after 10+ years you should be open for forgivness. your post is nonsense, just because holding a grudge for VC is all you have going for you fans I swear. Vince has grown up, you fans should too. In 10 years a man grows a lot mentally, and there's nothing wrong with resolving what happened. This isn't high school.

you can pretend all you want if it helps you sleep. But the truth is Vince will be remembered always when it comes to basketball. Mostly for dunking? sure. You love basketball you love dunks..

VC was the show of league when he was on the Raptors. Dont compare it to the Celtics/Lakers standards and take it for what it was. No he didnt win a championship with his mediocre supporting cast. But he did pretty darn good for the roster and city he was dealt.

hell he was drafted by a NOBODY franchise. an absolute fresh NOTHING no respect DINOSAUR Franchise. And he turned it into MUST WATCH TV. Show some respect you unappreciative *****es!

YOU SHOULD BE LUCKY HE EVEN PLAYED 6 YEARS FOR THAT JOKE

no one's saying what he did wasnt a childish act, not even Vince is saying that. NBA players are spoiled get over it or you'll hate majority of the players. But the fact that he made your city even relevant to the NBA deserves more than to dwell on one blip of his career

lol @ lucky. if he didn't come someone else(tmac) would have done his job and probably do a better job.

JasonJohnHorn
11-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Didn't Babcock draft Graham?

I think he may have, but it all happened while Bosh was in TO.... just a list of failures the team had while Bosh was there. they drafted poorly every season he was there. I understood Bosh leaving. I wasn't upset in the least. The only thing I was upset about was that Coangelo didn't trade him for Bynum when those rumours came up. There was word that the Lakers were willing to part with bynum for Bosh and move Gasol back to center and let Bosh play PF with Kobe and Gasol and Odom.

That would have been a great trade for both teams. But like the fool he is, Coangelo hung onto Bosh despite the fact that Bosh made no promises about staying and then we lost Bosh for nothign to the open market.

marvILLous
11-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Do it!!! But only if we have a retro year where we only rock the OG raptor jerseys and VC has to shave his beard off.. Lol

Raps fans who are still mad at VC need to move on.. U guys sound like a bunch of bitter ex gfs lol.. You're quick to blame VC but forget the fact that we had the worse GM in NBA history running our team. And let's be real.. nobody here knows the whole exact story, and we probably never will.

I'm not saying VC isn't at fault.. Cuz he did handle it like a ***** but you're crazy if you think it's all on him.. And while the booing and hating was fun for the first 5-6 years.. It's not the same anymore. Like someone said, he's grown up from it and i think it's time the fanbase does too. He def seems sincere in the things he says about the city and the team and would not mind if he came back to retire here. It can't hurt?

Let's start looking at the positive impact he made and appreciate the man who single-handedly made basketball relevant in our city.. I'm sure a lot of you go back to his old highlights and wack off every once in a while.. I know i do

Iron24th
11-08-2012, 10:34 AM
But toronto FO doesn't want him back

Daunter
11-08-2012, 10:55 AM
I wonder if Marbury would be open to rejoining the Knicks.

faridk89
11-08-2012, 11:04 AM
Vince needs to stop smoking all that PCP, **** him... Raptor fans still haven't forgiven him for what he did to us. Retire his Jersey??? Is this dude ****ed in the head or playing games????

JasonJohnHorn
11-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Let's start looking at the positive impact he made and appreciate the man who single-handedly made basketball relevant in our city.. I'm sure a lot of you go back to his old highlights and wack off every once in a while.. I know i do

Single-handedly? Maybe you forget we had Hakeem, and Antonio Davis who put up all-star numbers, and Mark Jackson and Charles Oakley. Not to mention hustle guys like Jerome Williams and a PG who was playing very well at the time in Alvin Williams. Dell Curry, Kevin Willis, Keon Clark was playing great back then, and Corliss Williamson. Single-handedly? The worst GM? That GM got a lot of talent on that roster. I'm not saying he was a grerat GM, but he got a lot of great pieces. Carter didn't do this on his own.

ink
11-08-2012, 11:48 AM
Single-handedly? Maybe you forget we had Hakeem, and Antonio Davis who put up all-star numbers, and Mark Jackson and Charles Oakley. Not to mention hustle guys like Jerome Williams and a PG who was playing very well at the time in Alvin Williams. Dell Curry, Kevin Willis, Keon Clark was playing great back then, and Corliss Williamson. Single-handedly? The worst GM? That GM got a lot of talent on that roster. I'm not saying he was a grerat GM, but he got a lot of great pieces. Carter didn't do this on his own.

I agree with you completely. That's why I never buy into this bogus superstar stuff. Behind every "superstar" there are dozens of people there precisely to make that person look good, and sometimes better than they really are. ;)

SINCESTARBURY25
11-08-2012, 11:48 AM
i wonder if marbury would be open to rejoining the knicks.

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chronz
11-08-2012, 11:52 AM
If winning one playoff series in seven seasons gets your jersey retired, then there would be no numbers left to wear.
One problem here chief, thats YOUR synopsis of his career. He meant alot more than that to that franchise. Its about HOW you performed on top of how far you got your teams talent and the revenue he brought the team.


Could you imagine telling a Boston fan or an NY or LA fan that they should retire a players jersey after pulling what Carter pulled just because he helped them win one playoff series? Seriously?
If our franchise wasn't worth discussing before he showed up and played at a high level then maybe. Why would align myself with management over a player? Particularly Toronto's organization?


Toronto is a young organization and it hasn't seen a lot of success yet, but that doesn't mean it should start celebrating mediocrity.
Ive seen alot of ****** players get their numbers retired but its really a trivial thing to argue about. Its pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things (assessing an individuals career worth)

ink
11-08-2012, 11:55 AM
Do it!!! But only if we have a retro year where we only rock the OG raptor jerseys and VC has to shave his beard off.. Lol

Raps fans who are still mad at VC need to move on.. U guys sound like a bunch of bitter ex gfs lol.. You're quick to blame VC but forget the fact that we had the worse GM in NBA history running our team. And let's be real.. nobody here knows the whole exact story, and we probably never will.

I'm not saying VC isn't at fault.. Cuz he did handle it like a ***** but you're crazy if you think it's all on him.. And while the booing and hating was fun for the first 5-6 years.. It's not the same anymore. Like someone said, he's grown up from it and i think it's time the fanbase does too. He def seems sincere in the things he says about the city and the team and would not mind if he came back to retire here. It can't hurt?

Let's start looking at the positive impact he made and appreciate the man who single-handedly made basketball relevant in our city.. I'm sure a lot of you go back to his old highlights and wack off every once in a while.. I know i do

That's assuming there was some sort of love in the first place. lol. There wasn't. It is no surprise that all the MJ wannabee's of 10 years ago all pretty much busted to end their careers. If a fan had already been following basketball when the VC generation hit the courts you knew that they were more show than substance and time has proven that to be correct.

Six-8-TheWizard
11-08-2012, 11:55 AM
apparently you are still.

btw I did see that sam mitchell interview today where he said Vince actually came to him to try and stay in Toronto but the GM said he had a good deal (lol) and was ready to pull the trigger on it.

idk y this was a secret till now.

:laugh:

marvILLous
11-08-2012, 12:00 PM
Single-handedly? Maybe you forget we had Hakeem, and Antonio Davis who put up all-star numbers, and Mark Jackson and Charles Oakley. Not to mention hustle guys like Jerome Williams and a PG who was playing very well at the time in Alvin Williams. Dell Curry, Kevin Willis, Keon Clark was playing great back then, and Corliss Williamson. Single-handedly? The worst GM? That GM got a lot of talent on that roster. I'm not saying he was a grerat GM, but he got a lot of great pieces. Carter didn't do this on his own.

You know what i meant.. Those guys def all played a role in bringing interest to the city.. But did people go to the games to watch AD drop a double double? To see mark jackson drop some dimes? To see JYD grab that offensive rebound.. Maybe that's true for the real diehard nba/raptors fans..

But for the casual fan.. completely different. Let's be real.. most people went to the games to watch the flash that VC played with.. The dunks.. crossovers and fadeaways

VC brought interest to the CASUAL fan.. He brought excitement to the city basketball wise.

VC's impact on toronto basketball is unmatched by any other.. is that not true?

ink
11-08-2012, 12:04 PM
If our franchise wasn't worth discussing before he showed up and played at a high level then maybe. Why would align myself with management over a player? Particularly Toronto's organization?

That's a pretty low standard. In that case, the organization DOES NOT retire jerseys.


JasonJohnHorn is right: one playoff series win is nothing to retire a jersey over. Neither is a dunk contest. All the flashy open court slams in the world wouldn't change that. If you took that away, VC had a good but not HOF worthy career and we wouldn't be talking about this.

marvILLous
11-08-2012, 12:05 PM
That's assuming there was some sort of love in the first place. lol. There wasn't. It is no surprise that all the MJ wannabee's of 10 years ago all pretty much busted to end their careers. If a fan had already been following basketball when the VC generation hit the courts you knew that they were more show than substance and time has proven that to be correct.

People were in love with VC though..

It doesn't matter if he was more show than substance.. if you want to put it like that. Because the show is what brought interest to the casual fan.. which is turn made basketball much more popular not only in the city but the country as a whole.

And that's the point i was trying to make.. a lot of raptors fans like to hate on VC but sometimes forget or ignore the impact he had on the city basketball wise. I'm just saying maybe it's time to stop being so sour about the whole thing.. I was def mad at him the first few years but I still love what he did for the city and respect him for that.. Even if he did do some *****made things towards the end of his career here

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:07 PM
They're not in such shambles any more, and if they were it was largely because the petulant little fart forced his way out of the franchise, leaving their rookie GM with no option except to trade him for absolutely nothing.
Your probably right about them not being in shambles, we'll see how their recent moves pan out but I disagree that they had no option but to take what they got. It was such a blunder in terms of assets received it amounted to less than nothing. Simply letting Vince walk for nothing would have resulted in similar success with much less heart break. I mean they traded for a guy you would be insane to not know wouldn't play for a moribund franchise that had already failed to build a supporting cast. You dont trade superstars for vets on heavy contracts that wont play for a losing organization, **** you dont even trade All-Stars for that. You get expiring contracts, get as many prospects as you can and you take your losses and move on. Instead Toronto saddled itself with poor contracts that delayed their rebuilding process.


We dont know the full story behind his departure, unlike most stars Vince has been pretty hush hush on it from what Ive seen. You can side with a management that has since moved on and eventually failed in their rebuild, or the guy who actually put in work to make the franchise relevant. I know if I were a fan there I wouldn't have taken insult to his antics, the guy was trying to get traded.


His selfishness cost an organization years of turmoil. He wouldn't be welcome back and I don't think Colangelo would be interested in going there anyway.
I blame your organization more than I blame its best player but I do get the feeling he wouldn't be welcomed unless he was helping them win something of relevance. And I could be wrong but didnt your GM say he wanted to honor VC if the fans would move on?

Munkeysuit
11-08-2012, 12:07 PM
He really would be a good fit, perfect mentor for DeRozan, Toronto has been that kind of organization as well (taking care of their own/former players) they remained so loyal to Jamaal Mcgloire after he came back to the Raptors.

ink
11-08-2012, 12:07 PM
People were in love with VC though..

It doesn't matter if he was more show than substance.. if you want to put it like that. Because the show is what brought interest to the casual fan.. which is turn made basketball much more popular not only in the city but the country as a whole.

And that's the point i was trying to make.. a lot of raptors fans like to hate on VC but sometimes forget or ignore the impact he had on the city basketball wise. I'm just saying maybe it's time to stop being so sour about the whole thing.. I was def mad at him the first few years but I still love what he did for the city and respect him for that.. Even if he did do some *****made things towards the end of his career here

I wasn't a casual fan and I didn't like VC from the start. Just wasn't attracted to his schtick. If you give me the choice between a player with awesome fundamentals like TD and a flashy showoff like Carter I will pick Duncan 1,000,000 times out of 1,000,000.

That is the type of player who gets their jersey retired.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:12 PM
Ironically drafting Bosh is one of the things that started VCs pouting at the time. Didn't think Bosh was good enough. Carter is a complete assclown.
Why? Lots of players have been wrong about who their teams got, including MJ. Diss him for something relevant at least.




This.

And it doesn't matter what his "side" might say. You don't fake injuries and all the crap he did if you're a professional athlete with any character.
Nonsense, if a franchise didn't take my trade request seriously I would do anything in my power to get out.

Sorry but thats always been the way the business works, Wilt forced his way out all the way to Dwight last year, you cant hold star players hostage and the longer you do the worse it ends up for your team. I like to think thats what happened to Toronto.

Had they just done what the Sixers did when Iverson requested a trade, it would have been a much more pleasant divorce. Both sides are to blame but only Vince takes the brunt of the hate

marvILLous
11-08-2012, 12:13 PM
I wasn't a casual fan and I didn't like VC from the start. Just wasn't attracted to his schtick. If you give me the choice between a player with awesome fundamentals like TD and a flashy showoff like Carter I will pick Duncan 1,000,000 times out of 1,000,000.

That is the type of player who gets their jersey retired.

If you didn't like VC from the start that's fine.. But you'll find thousands of people who disagree with you. In retrospect, I'll take duncan over VC too but at the time, VC was amazing for the casual fan (and diehard) because nobody here had ever seen anything up close and personal like that before.

They knew about jordan and watched him play, but to have someone who had a similar style/flash as him play for our home team is what brought the excitement here..

VC put basketball on the map in Toronto/Canada.. You've heard it many times and you can't tell me you disagree?

ink
11-08-2012, 12:19 PM
Why? Lots of players have been wrong about who their teams got, including MJ. Diss him for something relevant at least.

I was responding to a point made about Bosh. Therefore relevant.


Nonsense, if a franchise didn't take my trade request seriously I would do anything in my power to get out.

We've differed on this point before and it doesn't look like anything has changed in our respective opinions. And another thing about how the business works: if a player is an assclown about the way he fakes injuries to force a trade, he loses respect.


If you didn't like VC from the start that's fine.. But you'll find thousands of people who disagree with you. In retrospect, I'll take duncan over VC too but at the time, VC was amazing for the casual fan (and diehard) because nobody here had ever seen anything up close and personal like that before.

They knew about jordan and watched him play, but to have someone who had a similar style/flash as him play for our home team is what brought the excitement here..

VC put basketball on the map in Toronto/Canada.. You've heard it many times and you can't tell me you disagree?

You have to look at the whole story: look at the mess he helped create for a struggling young franchise. And I didn't like the wannabee MJ stuff from the start. Really disliked it. I couldn't stand his *******-ish bravado. MJ earned the right to be an *** lol. VC just came in like a Globetrotter and strutted. I am being serious here: I got the dumb chills watching Vince Carter.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:19 PM
That's a pretty low standard. In that case, the organization DOES NOT retire jerseys.


JasonJohnHorn is right: one playoff series win is nothing to retire a jersey over. Neither is a dunk contest. All the flashy open court slams in the world wouldn't change that. If you took that away, VC had a good but not HOF worthy career and we wouldn't be talking about this.
Forgive me if I dont trust your HOF standards. VC has done more in his career than some HOF'ers so I dont see your rationale here. Like I said, he did more than win a single playoff series. He put your franchise on the map, brought it revenue, displayed a high level of play for a few years .

Its very telling that you label his dunks as "open court slams" lol, you wont even give him his credit when it comes to the one thing hes known as the greatest at. He got PLENTY of halfcourt dunks in crowds as well, in fact didn't he win a game by blowing by Shandon and dunking on Hakeems head? Cmon now

ink
11-08-2012, 12:21 PM
Forgive me if I dont trust your HOF standards. VC has done more in his career than some HOF'ers so I dont see your rationale here. Like I said, he did more than win a single playoff series. He put your franchise on the map, brought it revenue, displayed a high level of play for a few years .

Its very telling that you label his dunks as "open court slams" lol, you wont even give him his credit when it comes to the one thing hes known as the greatest at. He got PLENTY of halfcourt dunks in crowds as well, in fact didn't he win a game by blowing by Shandon and dunking on Hakeems head? Cmon now

If he was part of an exhibition tour slamming on the Washington Generals maybe I'd be really excited about him. But he wasn't and I wasn't interested. I really never was. It seemed like flash and yes, that's pretty much all it turned out to be. He's been mediocre for quite a while now. Are other NBA veteran stars that mediocre? No, because they have a ton of substance, and not just personally.

I wanted basketball, and I don't think it's too much to demand of a so-called star that he show some toughness and drive.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:25 PM
So basically you want Toronto to retire somebody's jersey because he heled win one playoff series and won a dunk contest? I mean, the only reason people like watching Carter was for his dunks.
For his exciting play. Its happening in LAC right now with Blake Griffin. It may not matter much to you but it pays dividends for the franchise. You would think making money for your franchise would play a role in a franchise player.


And why should Toronto fans have as high a standard as LA or Boston? I don't see the Bucks retiring Glen Robinson's jersey because he helped them get to the conference finals?
Think of a better comparison, Glenn Robinson was the reason his team didn't get to the Finals, he was the 3rd option and rarely came through for his teams. If you want to be taken seriously, stop exaggerating to make your points.


Carter never even did that.
LMFAO he did ALOT more than that.


Mashburn led Charlotte into the second round twice. They haven't retired his jersey number.
OMG plz stop googling stuff and start researching. The least you could do is check your facts, in the years Mashburn was in Charlotte they did make the 2nd round twice, sadly in one of those runs Mashburn played a whopping 10Minutes TOTAL going 0-6. THATS LEADING? LMFAO dude you have no objectivity on this subject PERIOD.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:31 PM
I was responding to a point made about Bosh. Therefore relevant.

What makes you think there was any confusion on that front? Of course it was about Bosh, you called him an asshat for doing something that MJ did. Its not exactly unheard of for players to criticize draft choices. I found it childish but whatever.



We've differed on this point before and it doesn't look like anything has changed in our respective opinions. And another thing about how the business works: if a player is an assclown about the way he fakes injuries to force a trade, he loses respect.

Agreed on us never seeing eye to eye on this, I honestly dont look at it from that perspective. Why would I allow his departure to override the many more years of service? Knowing what we know about NBA history, it would be foolish to think a team could hold onto a disgruntled star without things getting ugly. I dont look at players being traded from the viewpoint of that teams fan, but as a fan of the NBA at large.


You have to look at the whole story: look at the mess he helped create for a struggling young franchise. And I didn't like the wannabee MJ stuff from the start. Really disliked it. I couldn't stand his *******-ish bravado. MJ earned the right to be an *** lol. VC just came in like a Globetrotter and strutted. I am being serious here: I got the dumb chills watching Vince Carter.
Yeah but you have to recognize the positive influence he had for your franchise overall. You may have been disgusted but he was still immensely popular both there and the states. It was a great connection while it lasted, injuries and declining support ruined it.

The mess he helped create is something he lives with, at what point do you move on and appreciate the gifts he put on display for a franchise that has yet to reach that level of excitement/buzz/success.

ink
11-08-2012, 12:32 PM
I'm just pointing out that there are fans out there who aren't just butthurt because he left Toronto.

The usual line is that people need to get over losing their GF. But what if there was no romance to begin with?

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:36 PM
If he was part of an exhibition tour slamming on the Washington Generals maybe I'd be really excited about him. But he wasn't and I wasn't interested. I really never was. It seemed like flash and yes, that's pretty much all it turned out to be.
Im not interested in that conversation, this isnt about how you value his dunking its about being honest. You dont have to be a fan of his dunks to give him credit, or in this case, not discredit him by characterizing his dunks as simply open court slams. He was an exciting player PERIOD. The set shooting, passing, and ferocious dunks (both in the half court and full court) are primary reasons. You focused on the least exceptional reason, why? Because your discrediting his dunks.



He's been mediocre for quite a while now. Are other NBA veteran stars that mediocre? No, because they have a ton of substance, and not just personally.
Hes aged well enough IMO. Hes no Kobe/Duncan but he also doesn't have their physical gifts. Kobe is still quick and Duncan is still 7ft with a big ***.

ink
11-08-2012, 12:38 PM
What makes you think there was any confusion on that front? Of course it was about Bosh, you called him an asshat for doing something that MJ did. Its not exactly unheard of for players to criticize draft choices. I found it childish but whatever.

It was a significant reason for him to leave. It's also bad logic to try to make two wrongs into a right. What MJ did or didn't do isn't relevant. In fact, the whole comparison between MJ and wannabee MJ is kind of ludicrous. Time has proven that VC was no MJ.


Agreed on us never seeing eye to eye on this, I honestly dont look at it from that perspective. Why would I allow his departure to override the many more years of service? Knowing what we know about NBA history, it would be foolish to think a team could hold onto a disgruntled star without things getting ugly. I dont look at players being traded from the viewpoint of that teams fan, but as a fan of the NBA at large.

We disagree on the value of his contribution relative to the destruction of the franchise. We also disagree on the value of his BASKETBALL contribution fundamentally.


Yeah but you have to recognize the positive influence he had for your franchise overall. You may have been disgusted but he was still immensely popular both there and the states. It was a great connection while it lasted, injuries and declining support ruined it.

Weigh the harm against the positives and we come up with a deficit overall. THAT's exactly the problem.


The mess he helped create is something he lives with, at what point do you move on and appreciate the gifts he put on display for a franchise that has yet to reach that level of excitement/buzz/success.

I didn't enjoy his play when he was in his heyday. I just didn't. *** hole bravado. EXACTLY the kind of player a franchise DOESN'T want to build around.

ink
11-08-2012, 12:46 PM
Im not interested in that conversation, this isnt about how you value his dunking its about being honest. You dont have to be a fan of his dunks to give him credit, or in this case, not discredit him by characterizing his dunks as simply open court slams. He was an exciting player PERIOD. The set shooting, passing, and ferocious dunks (both in the half court and full court) are primary reasons. You focused on the least exceptional reason, why? Because your discrediting his dunks.

I just don't think the rest of his skill set is at HOF standards. You might be right that there are lesser players in the Hall but earlier mistakes don't mean we have to automatically assume he gets in now.


Hes aged well enough IMO. Hes no Kobe/Duncan but he also doesn't have their physical gifts. Kobe is still quick and Duncan is still 7ft with a big ***.

High standards. Those are the types of players he has to measure up to.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:49 PM
It was a significant reason for him to leave. It's also bad logic to try to make two wrongs into a right. What MJ did or didn't do isn't relevant. In fact, the whole comparison between MJ and wannabee MJ is kind of ludicrous. Time has proven that VC was no MJ.
Its more to compare the logic of finding hate in the act. You could be a player as great as MJ and still be wrong about things like that.




Weigh the harm against the positives and we come up with a deficit. THAT's exactly the problem.
What exactly are you basing this on? It sounds like you have quantifiable figures about the ramifications of his departure. Financially I cant see how you have any ground there, on court contributions: the negatives are that he left, the positives are that he brought a high level of play (Even if you feel he let you down, it was still a level of play few perimeter players in HISTORY have ever reached) for several more years than the small span of time that he acted out. So how is that a deficit?


I didn't enjoy his play when he was in his heyday. I just didn't. *** hole bravado. EXACTLY the kind of player a franchise DOESN'T want to build around.
Again you didn't enjoy his play but that doesn't correlate with your ultimate conclusion. The facts are, players of his ilk are the kind of players franchises hope to build around. Hell you had Cuban willing to trade Dirk for him. The fact that you didn't like watching him doesn't mean the majority of the population felt otherwise, which for a franchise means financial growth. Thats more relevant than what you felt when watching him play. Considering his production Id say thats a good cornerstone to build with.

Obviously hes not perfect, you would rather have Duncan BUT thats not to say lots of franchises wouldn't have taken him. Injuries derailed him and fear of injuries hurt his drive because before that Toronto broadcasters constantly raved up his effort and dedication to his craft.

JiffyMix88
11-08-2012, 12:54 PM
y would they want him back and two what did he ever do for the raptors besides stay hurt?

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Did Glen Rice get his jersey retired somewhere? What about Tim Hardaway? Surely its not too much to ask.

I mean the Celtics retired KC Jones and hes no more relevant to his franchise than Derek Fisher was to the Lakers, you dont see LA retiring Fishers number. Is it really less honorable to retire the number of a star who never had the team to win than a role player who didn't have to do much to win?

ink
11-08-2012, 12:57 PM
What exactly are you basing this on? It sounds like you have quantifiable figures about the ramifications of his departure. Financially I cant see how you have any ground there, on court contributions: the negatives are that he left, the positives are that he brought a high level of play (Even if you feel he let you down, it was still a level of play few perimeter players in HISTORY have ever reached) for several more years than the small span of time that he acted out. So how is that a deficit?

His legacy (in the true meaning of the word) is a negative one. He forced his GM into making a brutal deal that the Raptors have been trying to dig themselves out from for years. It set the franchise back quite a ways. THAT has been the negative, not just the time he spent faking injuries and giving plays to the opposition.


Again you didn't enjoy his play but that doesn't correlate with your ultimate conclusion. The facts are, players of his ilk are the kind of players franchises hope to build around.

Franchises that build around flashy players do so at their own peril. It can bite you in the ***. Franchises that build around rock solid players succeed. Obviously teams have those concerns because they test character very closely now.


Obviously hes not perfect, you would rather have Duncan BUT thats not to say lots of franchises wouldn't have taken him. Injuries derailed him and fear of injuries hurt his drive because before that Toronto broadcasters constantly raved up his effort and dedication to his craft.

They did? Hype was a massive problem with VC in Toronto but I don't remember it being about dedication to his craft.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Ohhhh K

Good chat



Oh and yes they did, dont know how frequent it was but I have several games where the announcers gush over Vince's off-season workouts and practice regimen and even his passion. It was literally a shock going back and listening to them a few years after the divorce. Its what makes me question what is said about a players work ethic or maybe he did truly change and devolve as a player.

diu9leilomo
11-08-2012, 01:13 PM
You know what i meant.. Those guys def all played a role in bringing interest to the city.. But did people go to the games to watch AD drop a double double? To see mark jackson drop some dimes? To see JYD grab that offensive rebound.. Maybe that's true for the real diehard nba/raptors fans..

But for the casual fan.. completely different. Let's be real.. most people went to the games to watch the flash that VC played with.. The dunks.. crossovers and fadeaways

VC brought interest to the CASUAL fan.. He brought excitement to the city basketball wise.

VC's impact on toronto basketball is unmatched by any other.. is that not true?


Well ****ing said, VC brought me the interest to watch basketball, that rookie season he had with the raps, ****ing amazing, from then on I became a basketball player, a basketball fan. I still remember that poster i had on my door..it was awesome man....:o

diu9leilomo
11-08-2012, 01:22 PM
I wasn't a casual fan and I didn't like VC from the start. Just wasn't attracted to his schtick. If you give me the choice between a player with awesome fundamentals like TD and a flashy showoff like Carter I will pick Duncan 1,000,000 times out of 1,000,000.

That is the type of player who gets their jersey retired.

wow ure a boring guy, go watch curling

Stinkyoutsider
11-08-2012, 01:49 PM
Good for VC. Both sides did a lot for each other...

Carter made the Raptors even more popular a team with all NBA fans and Toronto gave him a place to grow and improve as a player. He left the team as an all-star player.

It would be a good return for him if he did do it but I would hope he would go back and play for the Raptors before he's too old to be a productive player for them...

ink
11-08-2012, 02:07 PM
wow ure a boring guy, go watch curling

haha, classic response to Tim Duncan, classic. I'll take his team's rings and brilliant play any day.

rabzouz 96
11-08-2012, 02:29 PM
I don't hate Carter at all. He gave us a few good years and the team (aka the GM, Grunwald and Babcock) failed to build a contender around him. They let Mcgrady walk away for nothing, traded away Camby, Davis and passed up on Iguodala in the draft... could you imagine a front court featuring Camby, Bosh and Iguodala? That'd be tight. Not to mention the Araujo pick. That was just awful. He could have used that pick to Iguodala, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith or even J.R.Smith ;-)

Could you imagine a starting line-up of:
Alston
Carter
Iguodala
Bosh
Camby

Now that is a team. But instead of Iguodala we got Rafael Araujo, signed a Rookie GM and a Rookie Coach, then we traded a disgruntled Antonio Davis for aging Jalen Rose and Donniel Marshall, and signed a trouble making Rafer Alston. :facepalm:

I understand why Carter left. With Babcock running the team, there was no way to get out of 'struggling to make 8th seed' mode, who then went along to reveal himself that carter wanted out, opting - without any pressure of an expiring contract on carters side - for a trade for a former star with kidneyproblems that came back from retirement for the sole reason of competing for the title and used the draftpicks he got out of this for 2 unconventional picks in villanueva and graham when higher ranked players were available, who then turned out to be complete busts(as expected for someone who drafted Araujo at #8)

fixed

C_Mund
11-08-2012, 02:34 PM
haha, classic response to Tim Duncan, classic. I'll take his team's rings and brilliant play any day.

Usually I'm with you on pretty much everything, Ink, and although I agree with most of your opinions in this instance I will say that being a young Raps fan when Vince came in changed my whole perspective on basketball. It's about more than just his success and attitude, I truly believe that the best dunker and one of the greatest showmen of all time was at his prime in a Raps jersey. The dunk contest was an absolutely historic night for basketball and combined with his style and stats, along with the ONLY mediocre success we've ever had as a franchise would make me want his number up there. No matter what happened in the end, kids in 40 years are going to look at some kind of life-sized holographic 3-d re-creations and see Vince saying "it's over" as he walks away and they'll see his 25-5-5 seasons and how easy the game was and that his jersey is hanging above the Raps court and it will all make sense. It was the first time that the Raps meant something to the NBA and I see a very valid reason to tie VC's contribution to our franchise's history.

akesh99
11-08-2012, 03:08 PM
**** VC! He knows he's not gonna make it to the Hall and this is his last attempt to be honoured in some form. People say he's matured or grown up yet I've never heard him apologize to the FANS about the way he left. Maybe the FO deserved him leaving but the fans who always stuck by him didn't deserve what he did to us. Faking injuries, revealing plays to the other team in late game situations, refusing to dunk- are you kidding?? This guy deserves no respect from Raptors fans or the organization nor should he deserve any respect from NBA fans around the league.

The Raptors did as much for his career as he did for the Raptors. Any other player ala Jamison (who we drafted) or McGrady could have been "that" guy but we put our faith in Carter only for him to turn around and **** us.

ink
11-08-2012, 03:56 PM
Usually I'm with you on pretty much everything, Ink, and although I agree with most of your opinions in this instance I will say that being a young Raps fan when Vince came in changed my whole perspective on basketball. It's about more than just his success and attitude, I truly believe that the best dunker and one of the greatest showmen of all time was at his prime in a Raps jersey. The dunk contest was an absolutely historic night for basketball and combined with his style and stats, along with the ONLY mediocre success we've ever had as a franchise would make me want his number up there. No matter what happened in the end, kids in 40 years are going to look at some kind of life-sized holographic 3-d re-creations and see Vince saying "it's over" as he walks away and they'll see his 25-5-5 seasons and how easy the game was and that his jersey is hanging above the Raps court and it will all make sense. It was the first time that the Raps meant something to the NBA and I see a very valid reason to tie VC's contribution to our franchise's history.

I understand he did those things. I question what happened to the league that it became a Globetrotters league for the desperate years after the NBA lost Jordan. I take a longer term view and have higher hopes for the Raptors (or any pro team) than to be famous for gimmicky basketball. You say you were a kid at the time; I get that because that's how I started watching MJ. I used to think his scoring exploits were everything. The hang time, the leaps from the top of the key, all of it. Gradually I realized that though that stuff was impressive, it wasn't what made Jordan win. In fact, it was really bad for the sport as a sport. As a business it sold shoes, broadcast rights, and tickets, but as a sport basketball suffered for at least 10 years as all we saw was constant imitation instead of fundamentals and high IQ team work. That's why I so often refer to the Spurs, but I could easily refer to the Celtics or the Mavericks. They are the anti-dunk-superstar teams of the league and they have the track record to prove it.

Back to the thread topic: I wouldn't want anything to do with VC. It would be a step backward and he's not even a shadow of the highlight reel (and I mean only highlights) player he was. DeRozan is another dunker that we're trying to turn into a basketball player, and Ross isn't far behind (at least the kid can play D and hit his shots reliably).

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 06:30 PM
Do it!!! But only if we have a retro year where we only rock the OG raptor jerseys and VC has to shave his beard off.. Lol

Raps fans who are still mad at VC need to move on.. U guys sound like a bunch of bitter ex gfs lol.. You're quick to blame VC but forget the fact that we had the worse GM in NBA history running our team. And let's be real.. nobody here knows the whole exact story, and we probably never will.

I'm not saying VC isn't at fault.. Cuz he did handle it like a ***** but you're crazy if you think it's all on him.. And while the booing and hating was fun for the first 5-6 years.. It's not the same anymore. Like someone said, he's grown up from it and i think it's time the fanbase does too. He def seems sincere in the things he says about the city and the team and would not mind if he came back to retire here. It can't hurt?

Let's start looking at the positive impact he made and appreciate the man who single-handedly made basketball relevant in our city.. I'm sure a lot of you go back to his old highlights and wack off every once in a while.. I know i do

this man. thank you

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 06:43 PM
Single-handedly? Maybe you forget we had Hakeem, and Antonio Davis who put up all-star numbers, and Mark Jackson and Charles Oakley. Not to mention hustle guys like Jerome Williams and a PG who was playing very well at the time in Alvin Williams. Dell Curry, Kevin Willis, Keon Clark was playing great back then, and Corliss Williamson. Single-handedly? The worst GM? That GM got a lot of talent on that roster. I'm not saying he was a grerat GM, but he got a lot of great pieces. Carter didn't do this on his own.

Carter single-handedly put Toronto on the map you can't deny that.

No one would watch the Raptors anymore than they do now if they had a Vinceless team.

BHF
11-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Carter tipped off a play to the Sonics bench during the final minute of the Raptors 101-94 loss to Seattle in Toronto. He can go **** himself most of us don't want him back

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 06:49 PM
I agree with you completely. That's why I never buy into this bogus superstar stuff. Behind every "superstar" there are dozens of people there precisely to make that person look good, and sometimes better than they really are. ;)

you're being pathetic. The only reason you say that is because the Raptors don't have a superstar anymore. If they had a new one I guarentee they'd be rubbing his nut sack every single night threads on threads on threads

bucketss
11-08-2012, 07:05 PM
Carter single-handedly put Toronto on the map you can't deny that.

No one would watch the Raptors anymore than they do now if they had a Vinceless team.

we had tmac on the team and he would have eventually blown up.

ink
11-08-2012, 07:20 PM
Carter single-handedly put Toronto on the map you can't deny that.

What's with the cliches? "Put them on the map"? Who cares? And apparently you didn't read his post because he pointed out that VC did NOT do it single-handedly.


No one would watch the Raptors anymore than they do now if they had a Vinceless team.

Vince or no Vince, people watch when the team wins. I couldn't care less if it requires a showboat player to make people watch. If it's that desperate then basketball doesn't belong in Canada.


you're being pathetic. The only reason you say that is because the Raptors don't have a superstar anymore. If they had a new one I guarentee they'd be rubbing his nut sack every single night threads on threads on threads

Maybe kids would. You measure success by nut rubbing? Others measure it by SUCCESS. lol.


Carter tipped off a play to the Sonics bench during the final minute of the Raptors 101-94 loss to Seattle in Toronto. He can go **** himself most of us don't want him back

This. One very good example of the lack of character of the guy who did more harm than good for Toronto. He just wasn't good enough to pull antics like this. Look at his overall career. A few prime years and then steadily down. With the Nets he was good, with the Magic he was pretty bad, with the Suns he was awful, and now he's just another player on a Mavs team that is rebuilding. Each team had poorer results after he joined them when he left the Raptors. Tells you something about his career.

marvILLous
11-08-2012, 07:38 PM
This. One very good example of the lack of character of the guy who did more harm than good for Toronto. He just wasn't good enough to pull antics like this. Look at his overall career. A few prime years and then steadily down. With the Nets he was good, with the Magic he was pretty bad, with the Suns he was awful, and now he's just another player on a Mavs team that is rebuilding. Each team had poorer results after he joined them when he left the Raptors. Tells you something about his career.

Oh you mean when he was 33 years old and the 3rd best player on a magic team that went to the east finals? Lol come on man i know you don't like the guy but you're just blatantly hating on him

You're talking as if he brought down every franchise he went to :laugh2:

The suns were already a non-playoff team when he went there and now he's a ROLE PLAYER on a mavs (playoff) team

Clearly he didn't fulfill his potential but i think he's doing pretty good how he is.. And you know what else he doesn't get credit for.. He's a former star who in his older days is willingly embracing his role as a complementary piece. You've got to respect him for that.. All this talk about his character but you fail to see that he's grown up and has matured from his past mistakes.

ankit
11-08-2012, 07:42 PM
First of all i want to say i was watching basketball the day the raptors were playing. Vince Carter did some incredible hings to make an expansion franchise develop into their brand of the so called raptors. He put the city of Toronto on the map in the eyes of basketball, he dunked over a 7 foot dude during the Olympics. He slammed our minds with the 360 dunk and between his legs dunks at the dunk contest. He made our hearts smile when we almost had a chance to reach the conference finals. However with all the good there is a major bad that comes with the story.

By publicly humiliating the Raptors saying he doesn't want to be part of a small market team in Canada and by demanding a trade he tarnished his legacy.

1 Instead of talking to the GM politely he went public
2 He under performed that year averaging 15 points hurting his trade value
3 Due to his lack of motivation we got garbage pieces via trade as no one predicted the explosion of 27 game he had playing with the nets. Vince fully checked out and left Canada behind him for good. IT was a bitter divorce that fans are yet recovering from. It might have paved the way for more bias about a large market team that has all the money except its in Canada.

Now if this jerk wants to come back hell no i wont appreciate this because he is garbage now and he knows no team will pay him taht cash probably the vetrans minum. He may think RaptorsFans are gonna forgive this jerk hell no. I will personaly go to the Acc and spill or throw something on him. Get lost Vince Carter you left Toronto to win a championship, you have no rings in your hand no hops no game u soar looser want to make it back to Toronto and revitalize your name. Seriously Vince Carter your lucky im not the Gm of toronto or i would break your face open for good. The nerve of this ***** to come back to Toronto. Make a statement Toronto Fans and respond to Vince "stating we dont want you Vince go play for the vets min somewher else looser" You suck! :clap::D

Sly Guy
11-08-2012, 07:57 PM
Good luck with the Raptors even wanting you back VC. :laugh:

lol, you haven't seen us play this season yet, have you?

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 07:57 PM
^relax, he didn't come out saying this. He was interviewed by a Toronto interviewer. They asked him what he'd think about coming back to Toronto and he said nothing but sincere and nice things.

You guys fail at maturing over the years.

BHF
11-08-2012, 08:08 PM
^relax, he didn't come out saying this. He was interviewed by a Toronto interviewer. They asked him what he'd think about coming back to Toronto and he said nothing but sincere and nice things.

You guys fail at maturing over the years.

Carter tipped off a play to the Sonics bench during the final minute of the Raptors 101-94 loss to Seattle in Toronto.

Carter tipped off a play to the Sonics bench during the final minute of the Raptors 101-94 loss to Seattle in Toronto.

read that and if you don't get it read it again why the **** would we want him back now when he is old and washed up?

aman_13
11-08-2012, 08:10 PM
Just curious, but how do you know that for sure? I forgot how that became news.

ThuglifeJ
11-08-2012, 08:23 PM
Just curious, but how do you know that for sure? I forgot how that became news.

there's a video/link posted on the first page.


also the former coach Sam Mitchell said in his interview that same day that VC came to him the day before the trade saying he wanted to work things out and stay with the Raptors. The GM at the time (idiot) said he already had a deal on the table with the Nets (one of the worst deals ever), and that he was gonna go through with it. So realistically Vince should have stayed on the Raptors for at least another few years.

Stress
11-08-2012, 08:33 PM
LOL @ mad Toronto fans hating Vince.

The best Raptor to ever wear the uniform. The man who lead the Raptors furthest in the playoffs. The man who put this city on the map basketball-wise.

Hate the terrible ownership and management who couldn't get it together. If it was a good situation for him to stay then he would have. Anyone would have. I wouldn't say he was someone who could put a team on his shoulders, but he was definitely the best player we ever had here and was a solid piece to build around.

Chronz
11-08-2012, 09:08 PM
Oh you mean when he was 33 years old and the 3rd best player on a magic team that went to the east finals? Lol come on man i know you don't like the guy but you're just blatantly hating on him

You're talking as if he brought down every franchise he went to :laugh2:

The suns were already a non-playoff team when he went there and now he's a ROLE PLAYER on a mavs (playoff) team

Clearly he didn't fulfill his potential but i think he's doing pretty good how he is.. And you know what else he doesn't get credit for.. He's a former star who in his older days is willingly embracing his role as a complementary piece. You've got to respect him for that.. All this talk about his character but you fail to see that he's grown up and has matured from his past mistakes.

Hes been praised for his leadership at every stop since Toronto. In fact I just read Carlisle doing so this morning, saying hes been a go-to player for them in Dirk's absence.

bucketss
11-08-2012, 09:10 PM
LOL @ mad Toronto fans hating Vince.

The best Raptor to ever wear the uniform. The man who lead the Raptors furthest in the playoffs. The man who put this city on the map basketball-wise.

Hate the terrible ownership and management who couldn't get it together. If it was a good situation for him to stay then he would have. Anyone would have. I wouldn't say he was someone who could put a team on his shoulders, but he was definitely the best player we ever had here and was a solid piece to build around.

no ones mad at him that he left i don't know if you noticed but hes not the only star to leave. im sorry raptor fans don't respect cry babies like wince

aman_13
11-08-2012, 09:31 PM
there's a video/link posted on the first page.


also the former coach Sam Mitchell said in his interview that same day that VC came to him the day before the trade saying he wanted to work things out and stay with the Raptors. The GM at the time (idiot) said he already had a deal on the table with the Nets (one of the worst deals ever), and that he was gonna go through with it. So realistically Vince should have stayed on the Raptors for at least another few years.

Sorry I didn't phrase my question correctly, I know how it became news In the sense that Vince said something to Ray Allen but how do we know for sure that he was telling him the play?

ink
11-08-2012, 11:15 PM
You're talking as if he brought down every franchise he went to

No, just that he was no difference maker in any of those places. In NJ, ORL, and DAL the teams all did better the year before he arrived. Shouldn't a so-called "impact" player improve a team's chances?? Or maybe his "impact" was limited to dunk contests.


All this talk about his character but you fail to see that he's grown up and has matured from his past mistakes.

That's great. Doesn't change the fact that his antics ended up costing the Raptors dearly. Faking injury and tipping off the opposition about plays is even lower than Melo and DHoward.

But good that he's finally learned to be humble. I guess the booing actually did do some good, even though I've been saying for years that it needs to stop.

My reaction to Vince is indifference and it always has been. :shrug:

Kenny Powders
11-08-2012, 11:45 PM
all anyone does on PSD is read the title, produce assumptions, and then post nonsense?

Nonsense on the nba forum.......get outta here