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View Full Version : How can we improve the assist statistic?



KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 03:48 PM
You are David Stern. For many of you this is great news. You lost weight, added hair, and moved out of your mom's basement.

You are been presented with three potential ideas about the assist statistic:

1. Record "Mega-Assists" which are assists that directly lead to a layup/dunk.
2. Record passes that directly lead a foul from the opponent and free throws for your teammate as an assist.
3. Record passes that directly lead to another pass that results in a layup/dunk (similar to a hockey assist).

If you could only choose one, which door would you open?

SteBO
11-07-2012, 03:53 PM
I would definitely look into the second option first and foremost. Imagine what Stockton's overall numbers would've looked like if the passes that lead to shooting fouls actually accounted for something. :speechless: Connecting on a FT or two(or three in rarer instances), still counts as a point(or two or three) and I think it's only right that the player that made the correct play gets rewarded on the stat sheet.

SteBO
11-07-2012, 03:55 PM
You can't go wrong with either though. I also think the "hockey" assist is great indicator on who initiates the ball movement needed on offense to win games. I would imagine guys like Thabo Sefolosha would lead the league in that category.

SugeKnight
11-07-2012, 03:55 PM
You are David Stern. For many of you this is great news. You lost weight, added hair, and moved out of your mom's basement.

:laugh:

Cal827
11-07-2012, 03:57 PM
:laugh: @ the OP

I would do the second or the third one.... although the third one might make some usual ball hogs look good... Just imagine how PSD would blow up if they saw Kobe averaging over 10 APG :speechless: lol

JiffyMix88
11-07-2012, 04:07 PM
Lol op

But if it was up to me we'd stop having rondo assist.

Meaning no more guy has the ball in the post works his man and scores but rondo is rewarded with an assist.

Or when someone catches punk fakes crosses over from the 3 pointline and scores a dunk or lay up and rondo is rewarded with an assist.

take those two out and i'll be happy no need to add

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 04:12 PM
I'm surprised nobody likes the mega-assist idea. Are all assists really equal?

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 04:13 PM
(*Note* Idea is taken from The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons)

metsrock229
11-07-2012, 04:16 PM
I always thought the second option made sense, but I don't think we should change it now. If there's some way to have accurate stats for players in the past as well I would change it.

DreamShaker
11-07-2012, 04:19 PM
I am opposed to making anything an assist that previously was not. Reason being it would diminish previous assist records.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 04:29 PM
I am opposed to making anything an assist that previously was not. Reason being it would diminish previous assist records.

What about simply adding Mega Assists to calculate the most value passes in the game? This would allow for differentiation between a quality assist vs. the alleged "Rondo" assist from a previous poster.

PurpleJesus
11-07-2012, 04:44 PM
I like the mega assist idea, assuming that there is still the usual assist stat...An alley oop assist, or an assist where you hit a man in stride for the layup, is a better assist than passing to a Michael Beasley type player who shoots with 2 people in his face, and sometimes makes it.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 04:51 PM
I wonder who would be the top 3 in mega assists...

PurpleJesus
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM
I wonder who would be the top 3 in mega assists...

CP3, Nash, DWill, Rondo and Rubio would be the candidates.

alexander_37
11-07-2012, 05:07 PM
I was actually thinking about the free thro one about an hour ago.

Lake_Show2416
11-07-2012, 05:10 PM
i like both the idea of Mega Assists & Assists for free throws, they both give a broader view of a players passing production

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 05:10 PM
CP3, Nash, DWill, Rondo and Rubio would be the candidates.

Care to take a stab at it?

PurpleJesus
11-07-2012, 05:11 PM
There is a lot of history at stake when you change a statistic, but it just seems to make sense to award a player with an assist when he sets up a teammate who gets fouled, and goes to the line...I could see a separate statistic for this in the near future...NBA may not officially accept the stat, but I feel it is something that analysts could use, or front offices could use.

PurpleJesus
11-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Care to take a stab at it?

not really.

you?

torocan
11-07-2012, 05:15 PM
I definitely think that passes that lead to fouls should be counted somehow.

Maybe a new category like Assisted Fouls. Or just adding 0.5 assists for a pass that leads to free throws.

A seperate category for hockey assist would be REALLY nice.

The best teams use extensive ball movement. It would be nice to see those players who pass intelligently have those actions reflected in the box scores.

Call it Passing Assist or something.

Mega-assist just sounds silly to me. =P

JasonJohnHorn
11-07-2012, 05:42 PM
Um... it might take a little work, but I think there are ways to improve the recording of stats. They could have "empty" assists, passes that lead directly to a shot that doesn't go in, just so you get a better idea of how many complete passes a player makes compared to turnover, and I think giving out a 'secondary' assist to guy who may a pass that leads to the pass that leads to the shot. Especially guys who make a long outlet pass to the fast break and the guy gives it up to another player following behind. Or when somebody passes it around the horn, from the post to the point to the guy in the corner who hits the three. I think they way they record the assists now is fine, but adding a secondary assist and empty assists will give more informantion to assess passing efficiency. interesting idea for sure.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 05:47 PM
:laugh: At least my thread got hijacked by chick porn.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2012, 05:48 PM
not really.

you?

Paul-Rondo-Nash

JEDean89
11-07-2012, 06:08 PM
Seperate category for hockey assists and though this will never replace assists, and advanced stat that judges assists taking fouls and 3 pointers into effect. maybe a stat that simply counts points. 2 for a normal assist 3 for a 3 pointer and 1 for each ft made. that would show just how much offense is being generated by a player who isn't scoring.

topdog
11-07-2012, 06:15 PM
I'm sorry, but "mega assist" just sounds so stupid to me that I can't even get to the actual idea of it.

I've been a huge proponent of giving assists for free throw shots because it usually is either a stopped dunk attempt or some situation where your pass beat the defense. The question is do you award an assist for the fouled attempt or 0.5 per free throw made?

Pluvious
11-07-2012, 07:26 PM
I like all three a lot. You can start calculating them all now...it does not mean you have to make them official stats right away. But it would be nice to see them shown and be easy to access.

Oh, and Nash would definitely have led the league in mega assists in recent years. Unlike some of the other high assist guys Nash tries to only give up the ball when players are in scoring position. That is good and bad. It means his teams rely on him more but they also tend to be much more efficient.

rufo4100
11-07-2012, 07:41 PM
If a guy makes a pass that would have been an assist but the player was fouled and missed the shot then if said player makes both free throws i have always thought the player should receive an assist...but only if both FT's are made.

NoahH
11-07-2012, 07:53 PM
megassists :facepalm:

IndyRealist
11-07-2012, 08:31 PM
Um... it might take a little work, but I think there are ways to improve the recording of stats. They could have "empty" assists, passes that lead directly to a shot that doesn't go in, just so you get a better idea of how many complete passes a player makes compared to turnover, and I think giving out a 'secondary' assist to guy who may a pass that leads to the pass that leads to the shot. Especially guys who make a long outlet pass to the fast break and the guy gives it up to another player following behind. Or when somebody passes it around the horn, from the post to the point to the guy in the corner who hits the three. I think they way they record the assists now is fine, but adding a secondary assist and empty assists will give more informantion to assess passing efficiency. interesting idea for sure.

I've heard all of the poll options before. Hadn't heard of the empty assist though. I think it would greatly help quantify decision making, both for the passer and the shooter. If the passer gets a ton of empty assists, it could mean that he's on a team with really poor shooting teammates, or that he's not getting them the ball where they have a reasonable chance at scoring.

Chronz
11-07-2012, 09:28 PM
Yea you would never change a current stat, you would just add another one. And Mega assists are already being tracked, Bron's assists numbers in the past were inflated if you value pts produced off assists. Hockey assists would be a great addition as would assists that lead to FT.

Baller1
11-07-2012, 09:32 PM
I absolutely would add the second. I do like the hockey assist idea, but I would for sure do the free throw one. I've been an advocate of that idea in the past.

D-Leethal
11-07-2012, 09:39 PM
Mega Assists can be misleading with fast breaks. You can rack them up on assists that require less accuracy or talent with much more room for error. Of course there are some beautiful pinpoint fast break passes, but I think they would be skewed with worthless wide open fast breaks and 3 on 1 type breaks. Halfcourt mega assists are impressive.

I honestly think hockey assists should be recorded to some degree, especially after watching JKidd this season.

MR.TRIPDUB
11-07-2012, 11:18 PM
Here in the philippines we already use the second one.
I like the hockey assist but it should be a separate stat. How does it work exactly? Does the passer that initiated the quick ball movement get credit or just the pass (second to the last pass) that led to assist.
(im thinking the op thought of this seeing the knicks Great ball movement and jkidd averaging such a low assist numbers)

SportsFanatic10
11-08-2012, 01:05 AM
i always thought there should be assists for when a pass leads to free throws, but it would make it hard to compare stats with previous players seasons so leaving it be is best imo.

Phenomenonsense
11-08-2012, 01:51 AM
I always thought the second option made sense, but I don't think we should change it now. If there's some way to have accurate stats for players in the past as well I would change it.

True that, we should also not consider the fact that assists have already been made easier to count and not record blocks! PURITY IN STATS!!!

John Walls Era
11-08-2012, 02:05 AM
Assists for passes that lead to free throws and Hockey Assists already exists... They don't have the data available to us, but they definitely are available to teams.

mvb815
11-08-2012, 02:21 AM
i would be for the second option only if the player getting fouled hits all the free throws

otherwise any pg to dwight would get 15-20 assists a game