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View Full Version : should defensive players make the HOF?



Nick O
11-06-2012, 03:12 PM
and by defensive i mean like strictly players known for their defense who lack a bit on the offensive end... players i had in mind were Mutumbo , MWP, ben Wallace and shane battier.. players who didnt score much during their career but were lock down defensive players.. can strictly defense get you in the hall of fame? .. im not sure about Battier but i personally believe the other 3 should be there...

edit: im also gonna throw AK47s name out there

D-Leethal
11-06-2012, 03:14 PM
Wallace probably should. Dennis Rodman did.

bigsams50
11-06-2012, 03:15 PM
I think Big Ben is a HOF.

abe_froman
11-06-2012, 03:16 PM
with rodman getting in,it kind of opens the gates.not on battier ,but def be ok with mutumbo and wallace getting in(think he's been severally underrated, his importance/impact has been glossed over),mwp is on the bubble of such a group

Nick O
11-06-2012, 03:17 PM
with rodman getting in,it kind of opens the gates.not on battier ,but def be ok with mutumbo and wallace getting in(think he's been severally underrated,glossed over),mwp is on the bubble of such a group

true but MWP actually did have some offense to go with his game. so he might get in... but true. i was a huge mutumbo fan hoping he gets in

Hellcrooner
11-06-2012, 05:26 PM
rodman is in.

but other defensive greats like bobby jones, alvin robertson have been snubbed.

so theres no definitive criteria about it from the hof rulers.

IMO they should, and if they dont then they should remove the "pure scorers" that neglected their d and their passing like say, gervin or english.

FOXHOUND
11-06-2012, 05:33 PM
Rodman also won 5 rings as a top 3 player on his team, a couple of DPOY awards, was All-NBA a couple of times, made a ton of All-Defensive teams and won about 2 million rebounding titles.

He's not like normal defensive players, he's got quite a resume. Maybe he opened the door for a few of them, but definitely not many. Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo and a guy like Michael Cooper shouldn't be overlooked either.

KnicksorBust
11-06-2012, 05:36 PM
Agree with ^^ above. There is no criteria. Each case needs to be judged by a case by case basis. If there were primarily a defensive player then you need the hardware and team success to back it up. In my opinion here are some examples...

Guys who fit that description: Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman, Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace
Guys who don't: Charles Oakley, Larry Nance, Doug Christie, AK47, Shane Battier, Tayshaun Prince

FOXHOUND
11-06-2012, 05:39 PM
Agree with ^^ above. There is no criteria. Each case needs to be judged by a case by case basis. If there were primarily a defensive player then you need the hardware and team success to back it up. In my opinion here are some examples...

Guys who fit that description: Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman, Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace
Guys who don't: Charles Oakley, Larry Nance, Doug Christie, AK47, Shane Battier, Tayshaun Prince

Good lists. As much as I love the Oak man, he would belong on the not list. Great Knick, though :clap:

douglas
11-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Only if their defense is really good.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-06-2012, 05:41 PM
and by defensive i mean like strictly players known for their defense who lack a bit on the offensive end... players i had in mind were Mutumbo , MWP, ben Wallace and shane battier.. players who didnt score much during their career but were lock down defensive players.. can strictly defense get you in the hall of fame? .. im not sure about Battier but i personally believe the other 3 should be there...

edit: im also gonna throw AK47s name out there

Mutombo and Big Ben should. Mutombo for what he's done internationally off the court. Big Ben basically created that Pistons identity of that championship team in 04 and the team that lost in the finals in 05.


Battier really doesn't stand out as a marquee name, and Metta just ****ed up any chance of making the hall after the brawl at the Palace.

Hellcrooner
11-06-2012, 05:43 PM
Mutombo and Big Ben should. Mutombo for what he's done internationally off the court. Big Ben basically created that Pistons identity of that championship team in 04 and the team that lost in the finals in 05.


Battier really doesn't stand out as a marquee name, and Metta just ****ed up any chance of making the hall after the brawl at the Palace.

Yeah cause Dennis was such a good citizen and role model :p

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Yeah cause Dennis was such a good citizen and role model :p

Dennis had a lot of off the court issues, but Ron's act basically changed the whole landscape of the NBA starting in 2004.

The Pistons were wearing the replica WCW titles after their 04 Championship Title, and the NBA told them they could not wear such things coming to the arena.


Dress code had to change because players like Iverson were dressing up like thugs with their underwear hanging out, so everyone had to dress up business professional coming to the arena.


The NBA Cares thing was implemented because the image of the brand took such a huge hit after what Artest did.



So many things led to the league becoming so soft and image driven after that Brawl.

Deception
11-06-2012, 05:57 PM
I think so, defense is such an important part of the game, Wallace, in my opinion, is a HOF'er, he put up some good numbers and matched up really well against some great centers like Shaq being only 6'9

Nick O
11-06-2012, 05:58 PM
rodman is in.

but other defensive greats like bobby jones, alvin robertson have been snubbed.

so theres no definitive criteria about it from the hof rulers.

IMO they should, and if they dont then they should remove the "pure scorers" that neglected their d and their passing like say, gervin or english.

rodman was helped by the team he played on... he was just such a big figure...

Baller1
11-06-2012, 05:59 PM
Agree with ^^ above. There is no criteria. Each case needs to be judged by a case by case basis. If there were primarily a defensive player then you need the hardware and team success to back it up. In my opinion here are some examples...

Guys who fit that description: Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman, Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace
Guys who don't: Charles Oakley, Larry Nance, Doug Christie, AK47, Shane Battier, Tayshaun Prince

I personally would add Bruce Bowen to your first list then.

Nick O
11-06-2012, 06:00 PM
Mutombo and Big Ben should. Mutombo for what he's done internationally off the court. Big Ben basically created that Pistons identity of that championship team in 04 and the team that lost in the finals in 05.


Battier really doesn't stand out as a marquee name, and Metta just ****ed up any chance of making the hall after the brawl at the Palace.

true with the MWP thing aha.. im sure elbowing harden didnt help his cause ;p

rockbottom2010
11-06-2012, 06:01 PM
sidney moncrief is probably the best defender in nba history and he should in the hof...so yes

Nick O
11-06-2012, 06:09 PM
so is MWP a guy who should be in but wont because of his past. or is he a guy who just simply shouldnt be in? .. i think hes border line.. because he was such a good defender and always went up against the best guy. ball stealer and for a couple years he was a very good offensive player as well

JasonJohnHorn
11-06-2012, 09:21 PM
The thing with Mutumbo, Rodman and Ben Wallace is that aside from being perhaps the best defenders in the league at various points throughout their respective careers, they were also the best rebounders in the league at various time throughout their resepctive careers.

A guy like Shane Battier... who is perhaps underappreciated, is that he locks down players, but he doesn't provide the kind of help defence that Howard, Big Ben and Mutumbo did, and Rodman did in a different way. Nor does he provide the rebounding those guys provide.

Bruce Bowen was an amazing one-on-one defender. Should he get into the HOF? I wouldn't have a problem with it, but a lot of people would I think.

Battier I don't think has done as much as Bowen... Bowen after all won 3 or 4 rings and winning plays a big factor in getting into the HOF.... just ask Mitch Richmond, Kevin Johnon, Mark Price and Tim Hardaway, all who have had HOF careers and none of whom won much while they played... they are all waiting to get into the hall and some of them (mitch, kevin and tim at least) were amazing defenders as well as being great offensive players.... mark price I'm not sure becuase I didn't watch that many Cavs games back in the day, but he may have been good on D too.

I think the Hall should be open to more players, but others seem to think that cheapens the meaning. I think guys like Fisher and Robert Horry had very special careers worthy of note, but most people wouldn't put them in the hall because they are just role players. But I mean, the Hall puts in highschool coaches for crying out loud... and NCAA officials? For real?

I say yes. But I expect to be in the minority.

IndyRealist
11-07-2012, 05:02 AM
If Artest and Ben Wallace don't make it, it's probably because of the Brawl.

Hawkeye15
11-07-2012, 05:08 AM
it makes it tougher, but defensive players from winners stand a good chance.

thenaj17
11-07-2012, 06:04 AM
with rodman getting in,it kind of opens the gates.not on battier ,but def be ok with mutumbo and wallace getting in(think he's been severally underrated, his importance/impact has been glossed over),mwp is on the bubble of such a group

Thing is Rodman was rebound leader for a few years in a row even at 6ft 7 or whatever he was and he had 3 rings. Wing defenders like Battier and Artest will have a harder time getting in unless they get a couple more rings playing a decent role. (1 of them a big possibility this year). Artest would need another defensive player of year in my mind and another ring.

ewmania
11-07-2012, 06:24 AM
bill russell, mostly known for his defense... if DPOY was then, and blocks counted as stats around his time he probably would be the all time leader and probably would of had 9 DPOY awards

rodman in also

TrueFan420
11-07-2012, 06:43 AM
No mention of Bruce "all mighty" Bowen

Raidaz4Life
11-07-2012, 06:58 AM
Mutombo and Wallace definitely should imo.

Nick O
11-07-2012, 04:48 PM
If Artest and Ben Wallace don't make it, it's probably because of the Brawl.

i feel they should regardless.. I mean hell O.J simpson is in the hof :p

Nick O
11-07-2012, 04:50 PM
Thing is Rodman was rebound leader for a few years in a row even at 6ft 7 or whatever he was and he had 3 rings. Wing defenders like Battier and Artest will have a harder time getting in unless they get a couple more rings playing a decent role. (1 of them a big possibility this year). Artest would need another defensive player of year in my mind and another ring.

its kinda of weird how MWP and battier are playing the exact same role this year.. the 5th starter on a "super team" in just for their defense really... qhweird

ManningToTyree
11-07-2012, 04:58 PM
Ben and Mutumbo are HoF to me.

Hellcrooner
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM
so, what about marc eaton and manute bol?

blocks blocks,more blocs and then again more blocks again.

Nick O
11-07-2012, 05:07 PM
so, what about marc eaton and manute bol?

blocks blocks,more blocs and then again more blocks again.

Bol wasnt a very good player tho.. he was 7ft8 yet never averaged more than 6 rebounds a game. even per 36 minutes he never averaged 9 .. and he never averaged even 4 pts per game.... all those other guys had other values to them.. Bol just blocked shots..

LA_Raiders
11-07-2012, 05:16 PM
Yes, If they have the stats. If not it is hard to justify.

Manimal
11-08-2012, 09:08 AM
Mutombo I feel is a sure HoF. Probably second ballot though.

Gary Payton will be first ballot.

Not too sure about MWP, Ben Wallace and Bruce Bowen.

DreamShaker
11-08-2012, 01:36 PM
Depends on the player. I am much more confident about Mutombo because of the impact he made off the court as well as on.